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/cyber/ - Cyberpunk & Science Fiction

A board dedicated to all things cyberpunk (and all other futuristic science fiction) NSFW welcome

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 No.34444

Calling all the schway-azz kobuns here.

Every other thread devolves into this one argument - what is cyberpunk?

Free as in GNU/Freedom?

FUCK-DA-MAN-style punk, with a digital bent?

Doing whatever it takes to make it?

Grey man fake-corpcuck?

Crime and glory with big fucking computers?

Just enjoying the ride?

Slumming it up with a hardline tech angle?

What does it all mean to YOU?

Feel free to argue, shitpost, whatever. This thread is a safe space for absolutely nobody.

 No.34446

File: 1443493137991.png (36.19 KB, 772x392, 193:98, sussman_personality.png)

>>34444

nice quads.

A little bit of everything you said, really. I tend to agree more with

>FUCK-DA-MAN-style punk, with a digital bent?

>Just enjoying the ride?

>Slumming it up with a hardline tech angle?

more than the others although I am a GNU man myself, it's not inherent in cyberpunk. Although if you're really in to computing you'll probably be at least a little into the alternative OS scene.

Cyberpunk to me cannot be captured in a better light than the phrase 'high tech, low life'. Anything that fits into that category I will consider /cyber/


 No.34448

I think that it really, honestly, encompasses at least some of all of these.

The reason I originally fell in love with cyberpunk was the 80s-future neon lights and megacorps of William Gibson. This, to me, will always be cyberpunk. But you can apply many of the dystopian themes straight out of the books to our current world- megacorps? Check. An information run society? Check. Corporate and government surveillance of every action you take? Check. Most people floundering just trying to scape by off the residual wealth of the corps without selling out entirely? Double check.

Sure, things are different, but they're also a lot the same. That's why, to me, the kid hunched over his computer hacking a major corp is also cyber as fuck. The guys in a basement working to get by off selling rebuilt electronics. The thieves stealing data from whoever happens to be Maas Biolabs today.

Some people would complain that cyberpunk is scienceFICTION, and that without the futuristic, fiction element you throw off the whole vibe. I say, I only wish it was fiction, still. The world is tough and cold and dead today in a way that cyberpunk captured for the ages, so I'm perfectly willing to refer to it as such.


 No.34478

A true cyberpunk would use any tools he has to achieve his goals.

Free as in free beer software? √

Open source with some restrictions? √

Propietary? √

Hardware/Software he bought? √

Hardware/Software he stole? √

Hardware/Software he made with a mixture of the above? √

People he loves? √

People he hates? √

Random passerby? √

Wageslaves? √

133t5? √

There are oppressive governments/corps? √

Some method of easily accessible, world (or planet-) wide network, area, planum, dimension? √


 No.34483

>>34478

A true cyberpunk would only use software that he knows that isn't going to turn against him during critical operations, aka free software.

See? I can play this game too. :^)


 No.34565

>>34483

Yeah, Automatic Jack was really worried about that Russian icebreaker in Burning Chrome, man.


 No.34595

>>34478

>A true cyberpunk would use any tools he has to achieve his goals.

protip:

his goals are not to support megacorps but to fight them which is why a cyberpunk would never use proprietary software outside an airgapped reverse engineering box unless he is missing some vital information aka he is a newfag.


 No.34605

>>34565

>Whew, finally got to access that damn server

>Wait, why is my deck displaying porn

>Oh fuck, they are pop-ups. Thousands of them.

>No, I don't want to enlarge my dick. I already have the longest available Hotgluedispenser size.

>Fuck, now I have to pay $200 to that Russki if I want my SSH keys back.


 No.34607

In a lot of ways we are cyberpunk now. Technology has come a long way in the last 25 years. Dronestrikes, nanotech, robot workforce, self driving cars, the internet of things (including vital services like water, electricity etc), evil megacorps like google and facebook.

This is why there is often discussion what cyberpunk is. Nowadays it`s not just a few cool books, animes or blade runner movies, it`s everywhere and rapidly expanding. Yesterday I heard about communication over the internet with brain implanted chips. Or a few months ago a quadruple amputee controlling a jet fighter with his brain, also through implants. Shit`s getting real I`m telling you.


 No.34636

>>34605

>professional, heavy-duty, srs bznss software contains porn popups

Where on earth do YOU work?


 No.34639

>>34636

Alright, let's use a better example

>Whew, finally got access to that damn server. Thank you, based Ivan!

>Wait, why can't I move

>I can't log out

>"ENABLING GEOLOCALIZATION. PLEASE WAIT…"

>Oh fuck

>3 minutes later the cyberFBI storms into the room and captures you to "interrogate" you.

>Ivan is actually an NSA agent.


 No.34748

>>34639

I feel obliged to ask: since you're clearly straight outta /tech/ and don't know the story, the setting, or the mechanics at play (mechanics that are fairly universal across cyberpunk lit, especially Gibson) - as demonstrated by the fact that you can't find the flaw I left in my analogy - why, exactly, are you even here?


 No.34749

>>34607

>a quadruple amputee controlling a jet fighter with his brain

What the fug? gonna need a source


 No.34758

>>34748

I swer on yer mum this board will change its definition of cyberpunk whenever it fits your arguments. I thought all retro cyberpunk users were gone.

It's not like mechanics in cyberpunk make much sense at all, though. All software is naturally flawed and works through the wonders of cyber wizardry.


 No.35539

>>34758

>I thought all retro cyberpunk users were gone

Did you forget that this isn't /tech/?


 No.35579

Dudes. It don't make much sense to argue over which punk is the true punk.

Every punk is different.

For me? Hacking with tech. By hacking I mean anything more than the textbook use of the item.

Using a old monitor as a door stop is a hack (yes extremely basic).

Poor people tend to benefit the most since they can't afford the commercial solution.


 No.35583

File: 1445257348645.png (470.55 KB, 551x550, 551:550, 1436815934476.png)

>>34483

No you obviously can't.


 No.35584

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File: 1445257731558-1.png (740.06 KB, 720x540, 4:3, vlcsnap-2013-03-11-22h44m4….png)

"Cyberpunk" centers on fiction.

Further, "cyberpunk fiction" is a marketing ploy, instigated by Bruce Sterling.

There is a continuous spectrum from pre-cyberpunk (Delaney, Brunner, pre-1984 anime) to 1984 (Gibson's _Neuromancer_), and then to post-cyberpunk.


 No.35585

File: 1445257884880.png (720.25 KB, 720x540, 4:3, vlcsnap-2013-03-11-22h44m3….png)

>>34444

>What does it all mean to YOU?

>Feel free to argue, shitpost, whatever.

Pre-cyberpunk is often superior to Gibsonian cyberpunk.

Gibsonian cyberpunk is a movement of several artists, prominently including Bruce Sterling.

Gibsonian cyberpunk has numerous flaws, but it was very influential when it counted.

_Blade Runner_ is actually pre-cyberpunk, because "cyberpunk" is a marketing label invented by Bruce Sterling to promote his cozy little clique of insiders.


 No.35586

>>34444

>Free as in GNU/Freedom?

>FUCK-DA-MAN-style punk, with a digital bent?

>Doing whatever it takes to make it?

>Grey man fake-corpcuck?

>Crime and glory with big fucking computers?

>Just enjoying the ride?

>Slumming it up with a hardline tech angle?

Cyberpunk is anti-Tolkien.

Cyberpunk is anti-Christian.

Cyberpunk is materialist - it does not believe in the human soul or life-after-death.

Thus Gibson's emphasis on uploading human brains into software was meant to replace the Christian soul.

(Sterling wrote about all this in the intro to his _Mirrorshades_ anthology.)

Cyberpunk is tainted by the stupidity of the Baby Boomer generation.

Note that pre-cyberpunk had a great deal of room for KEWL PSYCHIC POWERZ.

Cyberpunk has no room for psychic powers, because cyberpunk must deny magic, spirituality, the soul.

Now here is the problem:

pre-Cyberpunk (e.g. Phil K. Dick, _Akira_, etc.) had PLENTY of room for KEWL PSYCHIC POWERZ, spirituality, gods, mystical insight, etc.

post-cyberpunk (e.g. _Ribofunk_), has room for KEWL PSYCHIC POWERZ.

Only cyberpunk has a materialism fetish, because only Gibson and Sterling had a major anti-Christian fetish.

The defining limitation of cyberpunk is that Gibson and Sterling had a huge anti-Christian hard-on.


 No.35587

>>35586

Gibsonian Cyberpunk is a special case of CALOMCOR fiction.

CALOMCOR stands for:

Culture –

AND

Lower-

OR

Middle-

Class

Opportunistic

Rebel

CALOMCOR is a loosely-defined category including fiction stories from multiple genres. Thus some Raymond Chandler stories are CALOMCOR; W. S. Maugham’s _The Razor’s Edge_ is CALOMCOR; the Harry Canyon segment of _Heavy Metal_ is CALOMCOR.

The nature of a CALOMCOR story is that the culture surrounding the protagonist is at least as important as the protagonist. Chandler’s fictional hero, Phillip Marlowe, is less vivid than Chandler’s depiction of the Los Angeles underworld. Maugham’s hero Larry Darrell is less important than the social circles of bohemians and mystics through which he moves. Harry Canyon is less important than the dystopian version of New York City that dominates the segment. James Dean starred in _Rebel Without A Cause_, but the protagonist of that story was less striking than the tremendously alienating middle class society that motivated him to rebel.

Protagonists of adventure stories typically have useful skills; in a CALOMCOR story, those skills are particularly appropriate to the culture in question; they highlight the characteristics of the culture. E.g.: The protagonist of Brunner’s _Shockwave Rider_ is less interesting than his culture, and while he is a genius computer programmer, the skill of computer programming is particularly appropriate to his culture.

The “Culture” in CALOMCOR is usually a marginal subculture. Many “exploitation movies” and related stories of vengeful, alienated antiheroes are CALOMCOR. Blaxploitation heroes like John Shaft have the sassy street-wisdom of the ghetto permeating all of their actions, surrounding them with haloes of Black-is-Beautiful. The fictional motorcyclists of “biker films” are permeated with a similar subcultural aura of alienation. Russ Meyer’s female characters can be considered to be a repressed minority insofar as 20th century women did not have all the legal rights desired by 20th century feminists; but even within the larger repressed class of women, Russ Meyer’s women were subcultural outliers.

The premises of CALOMCOR stories are:

1 – The protagonist has skills and tools available to lower- and middle-class people. The protagonist does not have access to exotic esoteric powers (like Lamont Cranston/The Shadow), nor does the protagonist start out with kingly privileges and wealth (like Elric of Melnibone). Because the protagonist can fight with a commoner’s weapons, the protagonist is a potential rallying point for lower-class resistance to social authority.

2 – The protagonist is part of a society that motivates rebellion. The protagonist is personally oppressed, repressed, and depressed by the authorities. The protagonist is weak enough to have a realistic fear of being crushed by social authority, but the protagonist is strong enough to conduct guerrilla struggles against social authority.

3 – The cultural setting is frequently more interesting than the protagonist. Minor characters, gadgets, gimmicks and scenery are often more important to the plot than the protagonist’s personal virtues. The protagonist must NOT be omnicompetent like Doc Savage or Superman.

[This essay will be expanded later.]

Cyberpunk was the final hype storm encapsulating a pro-anarchy cause in Western fiction.

The New Wave of Sci-Fi – Brunner, Moorcock, etc. – was not necessarily anarchist. Brunner was probably a sincere Fabian socialist; he hated Christian respectability and law, but he longed for Fabian respectability and law.

Segments like the “Harry Canyon” portion of Heavy Metal and the entirety of Deathrace 2000 and Escape from New York were being written in the 1970s. All of these were written by relatively young people who saw themselves as culturally marginalized. They resented the remnants of 20th century Christian respectability.

These stories were written to soothe the frustration of young middle-class men who knew how to start violence, but who were prevented from descending into actual physical violence by RESPECTABILITY.

These stories don’t have a good collective name, but the unifying theme is that the ethics of personal violence have supplanted the ethics of respectability. In “Harry Canyon,” the New York City attitude is codified into an impossibly anti-social culture. In Deathrace 2000, the antihero actually has an implanted weapon (which, like Wolverine’s claws, was a foretaste of the numerous implanted weapons of cyberpunk).

The true heroes of these stories are not the individual men. The true heroes are the dystopian cultures.

One can take examples from some episodes of Megazone 23 – mohawk boy kicking vending machine, hero breaking traffic laws, heroine trying to whore herself (but each episode has an extremely different authorial voice.)


 No.35603

>>35586

>>35587

This is very decent analysis, user.

So original cyberpunk is rather limited because of the views of some small group of authors?


 No.35613

File: 1445298235842.jpg (109.35 KB, 1199x849, 1199:849, Super_Mecha_Death_Christ_2….jpg)

>>35603

>original cyberpunk is rather limited because of the views of some small group of authors?

Gibsonian cyberpunk doesn't really deserve its status as the be-all, end-all, defining center of the genre.

In the first place, proto-cyberpunk is hugely important and generally forgotten.

Before Gibson even started to write _Neuromancer_, other writers were picking up on the Zeitgeist.

After Gibson published _Neuromancer_, Sterling invented "cyberpunk" as a marketing term and neatly anointed Gibson as the Messiah. This gave Sterling a catbird seat from which he could decide what was and was not in the narrative.

As a result, whenever anyone thinks about futuristic noir, they don't remember the Harry Canyon segment of _Heavy Metal_ (1981), they don't remember _Space Adventure Cobra_ or _Akira_. They remember Sterling told them that Gibson invented future noir. And as a result, they usually forget that _Blade Runner_ came out in 1982, whereas _Neuromancer_ came out in 1984.


 No.35644

>>35586

5/10. Decent, but comes off as overly edgy, and I'm not sure I fully agree with the premise, given that they tend to ignore spirituality entirely rather than actually make statements against it. You could say the same about a lot of science fiction. ANd in the case of cyberpunk, especially Gibson? Even Dixie Flatline's construct requests that Case delete it, because it knows something isn't right, and it's not Dixie.

>>35613

Incorrect. Bethke invented the term.


 No.35735

Cyberpunk is an alternate-reality setting, which is commonly used to portray stories which question our definition of humanity, ethics, morals, existence, etc… and often drawing upon the themes of film Noir for atmosphere.

It is not however, in any way restricted specifically to those topics, nor is it meant to be a depiction of the "future". It is designed to be in a somewhat "near-future" setting so that we may believe it is a depiction of our future, and thus recoil from that potential reality in some way. Likewise, although the question of "what is humanity" is a common story, a Cyberpunk novel can take almost any direction as long as it adheres to at least a few out of a handful of themes, several of which are in >>35587

>>35586

>Only cyberpunk has a materialism fetish,

there's quite a bit of pre-cyberpunk novels which have a "materialism fetish" as you've put it.

>because only Gibson and Sterling had a major anti-Christian fetish.

I dont see this. as >>35644 said, its not that they were expressly against Christianity, as much as it just didn't come up. Someone could write a cyberpunk novel with spirituality as a central part of it, and did technically, that's exactly what Snowcrash is, though at the time it was written as a parody of cyberpunk.


 No.35740

File: 1445468437236.jpg (61.73 KB, 305x500, 61:100, manfriendship6.jpg)

>>35644

>overly edgy,

2 Edgy 4 U

>Bethke invented the term.

Bethke wrote a short story with the word, Sterling repurposed Bethke's term as a marketing term. I don't have the patience to locate the Sterling interview where Sterling describes his "marketing" tactic, but he's on record as saying it.

>>35735

>>because only Gibson and Sterling had a major anti-Christian fetish.

>I dont see this

You're not sufficiently familiar with these two men. If you just scan their literary output, you miss out on a lot of their character flaws.


 No.35741

>>35584

>"cyberpunk fiction" is a marketing ploy, instigated by Bruce Sterling.

>>35613

>After Gibson published _Neuromancer_, Sterling invented "cyberpunk" as a marketing term

>>35644

>Incorrect. Bethke invented the term.

Perfectly correct when you read all my posts in context.


 No.35742

File: 1445471545983.jpg (90.01 KB, 840x472, 105:59, solarPunk_1351866_18943515.jpg)

>>34607

>Technology has come a long way in the last 25 years. Dronestrikes, nanotech, robot workforce, self driving cars, the internet of things (including vital services like water, electricity etc), evil megacorps like google and facebook.

Relevant counter-movement, attempting to be less evil or even positively good:

http://ungoliantschilde.tumblr.com/post/127782239589/7-reasons-why-solarpunk-is-the-most-important

You can argue about whether solarpunk is decisively outside cyberpunk. I think it wants to be distinct from cyberpunk. I fear that it might not outgrow the pernicious influence of Sterling and Gibson … but who knows? Maybe I'm a horrible human being and Sterling is the second coming of Christ.


 No.35766

>>35742

>including vital services like water

Fun fact, the creator of nesquik cereal has stated water is a privilege, not a right. Of course the video was taken down but here's an article on it

>http://www.theorganicprepper.ca/nestles-wet-dream-they-mark-up-water-53-million-percent-06052013

Fucking retarded people out there want to privatize fucking water.


 No.35767

>>35766

I-I found it! Surprising, but it's buried deep in youtube for sure.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPY64EJcsG4


 No.35768

I think it's clear that nobody knows what cyberpunk really is. Just by looking at this thread or the whole board you can see there are vastly differing views of what cyberpunk is and nobody can admit that anything else than their own narrow personal definition of cyberpunk can be considered cyberpunk.

Cyberpunk has two core features that define cyberpunk as a genre, and all the rest is usually widely used, but not genre-defining. Everything else is optional:

First, the cyber in cyberpunk describes that technology has become an important part of everyone's daily life. It's everywhere, and imagining a life without it has become nearly impossible. This could describe any generic sci-fi scenario, but the -punk part of cyberpunk alters its meaning.

The punk part of cyberpunk indicates something is not quite right. Society has decayed, perhaps caused by an imbalance introduced by new technologies and everything behind them. It's not a happy future, quite the contrary. More often than not, megacorps have become so prominent they have managed to push for a new wave of relentless consumerism, and government has become nothing but shadow of what it once was. This is not strictly necessary though, as you could argue a setting with an authoritarian government could also classify as cyberpunk.

The punk part of cyberpunk may also imply some sort of civil unrest. There is a counterculture of outcasts around the world. Whether you can consider them criminals or vigilantes is up to you, but they sure aren't your typical fantasy heroes.

Cyberpunk is wild. Cyberpunk is dark. Cyberpunk is pessimistic. Some people consider high tech was what brought society down, but it ultimately was humanity's natural greed.

You can consider everything else optional. Cyberpunk is, ultimately, a "high tech dystopia", and that's about it.

Are implants cyberpunk? Sure, but they aren't a vital part. Blade Runner didn't stress this point, but you can't deny it is a good example of cyberpunk fiction. Same goes for everything else you can think is "sacred".


 No.35784

>>35766

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestl%C3%A9_t%C3%B6tet_Babys

On June 2, 1974 Nestlé sued the working group Third World Bern for defamation. [11] There was a criminal trial at the Superior Court of the Canton of Bern. [12] The title of the booklet was another reason for the July 2, 1974 Nestlé filed with the canton Albernian court complaint for defamation. against unknown [13] The working group Third World Bern was represented by two defenders; [14] one of the lawyers was the later Federal Councillor Moritz Leuenberger. [15] in 1976 were members of the group for defamation [16] [17] in the title of the booklet to a fine in the amount of 300 Swiss francs sentenced. But all substantive allegations against Nestlé told the court admissible.


 No.35837

>>35768

you realize that by that definition, the modern world is currently Cyberpunk?


 No.36662

File: 1446808418186.jpg (58.24 KB, 400x455, 80:91, mark_rein_hagen_stor.jpg)

>>35740

>>because only Gibson and Sterling had a major anti-Christian fetish.

>I dont see this

Evidence:

http://www.streettech.com/bcp/BCPtext/Manifestos/CPInThe90s.html

> Stern moral indignation at the prospect is the weakest of reeds; if there were a devilish drug around that could extend our sacred God-given lifespans by a hundred years, the Pope would be the first in line.

Verifiably false. Recently, several Popes have endangered their health by refusing medical treatments on religious grounds.

>Human thought itself, in its unprecedented guise as computer software, is becoming something to be crystallized, replicated, made a commodity. Even the insides of our brains aren't sacred; on the contrary, the human brain is a primary target of increasingly successful research, ontological and spiritual questions be damned. The idea that, under these circumstances, Human Nature is somehow destined to prevail against the Great Machine, is simply silly; it seems weirdly beside the point. It's as if a rodent philosopher in a lab-cage, about to have his brain bored and wired for the edification of Big Science, were to piously declare that in the end Rodent Nature must triumph.

Sterling enjoys spouting anti-Christian, anti-humanist nihilism when it suits his mood.


 No.36667

>>34444

Being cyberpunk id being as dependant on furthering the use of your electronics in a beneficial (to you) way while your electronics do the same. That's the problem with the modern world. No one wants to upgrade their soykaf, just buy it, use it, throw it away when something new comes out.

If I could imagine myself living the perfect cyber life, it'd be in a self sustaining house with a well in the walls, a self regulating water system powered electronically, a self-made computer while I use a throwaway phone, solar panels, and wires for floors (lol). I'd shave off all my hair so it'd be easier to not shower for days and work on programming beneficial applications or games in a small little square home.

While eating burritos all day, everyday.


 No.36683

>>36667

>No one wants to upgrade their soykaf

>soykaf

Stop using lainchan terminology. Soykaf is soy-based imitation coffee, not a wordfilter for "shit", unless monoelain went full retard.


 No.36802

File: 1447054262760.jpg (13.7 KB, 460x276, 5:3, Severe-smog-and-air-pollu-….jpg)

>>36667

>While eating burritos all day, everyday.

Seriously, what is this burrito trend?

Is it just one guy or is there a botnet of AIs trying to convince us to eat more burritos?

Is it a pop culture reference to a vidya I've never played? What?


 No.36812

File: 1447082541053.jpg (59.6 KB, 800x800, 1:1, 11527.jpg)

>>36802

hey scwarbage shut the fuck up

you want the special sauce?

cus i'll give you the special sauce if you keep asking questions

so shut up and hack a burrito into your taste-net

you fag


 No.36845

>>36802

It is just shilled just one ameriburger that think that it is cool. Nevermind, user.

>>36812

Stay mad, fаggot.


 No.36863

>>36812

Burritos are poverty Mexican shit

Shut the fuck up about it.




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