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File: 1445890669161.png (34.11 KB, 720x534, 120:89, anarcho_syndicalism__versi….png)

 No.35994

Every anarchist except primitivsts are accepted here.

Yo, here is anarcho-syndicalist AMA.

 No.36014

File: 1445910377096-0.jpg (30.15 KB, 447x447, 1:1, 1444779221760.jpg)

File: 1445910377136-1.png (316.65 KB, 1348x1243, 1348:1243, america under ancap.png)

>inb4 /pol/ shill shitstorm

>inb4 aynclaps

Also, ancom reporting in. I prefer nihilist insurrection to syndicalism myself but ansynds are still mah comrades.

Also, I find anarcho-transhumanism to be a very interesting idea, but it seems like very little has been written on it. What are some essential A-H+ readings?


 No.36025

>>36014

Ancap policing doesn't work like that. You pay police before the crime happens, just like the current system except you get to choose who will investigate any crimes against you and what you consider to be a crime. No more victimless crimes. The idea that nobody would be able to retrieve the brouzouf because they're not being paid to is silly. Even if the person wasn't paying into police coverage they'd easily be able to find someone to retrieve the brouzouf for a reasonable percentage. If an investigator retrieved the BTC and kept it for himself he would be considered a criminal, hunted for the brouzouf he stole, fired from his job then blacklisted from credit unions, land registries, etc, so just like today's policemen it is rational for him to not steal the brouzouf. I do wonder who would protect the poor though. One could ask that question now: Not too long ago in my country the cops used to pick up homeless people during the winter and drop them off in the woods naked. Go figure.

Not all ancaps are randians, you know.

How would you handle policing in other anarchist systems? I can't see it being any different. If you had a police organization that was authorized to forcefully extract their operating costs from the population but no more than that, then you'd have a kind of minarchist system which isn't real anarchism. The cops would make up pointless crimes just to put people in prison so they can hire more prison guards and grow their business.

All the ancom literature I've read is about revolt with all the economic details being extremely vague, which leads me to believe that the entire thing is just a scam to destabilize regions so an authoritarian dickhead like Lenin can take over. I've never seen a rational explanation of how an anarchist communist system would work. Perhaps you could provide one?


 No.36051

>>36025

OP here! I have ancap friend, and he hates randians, as they know shit about capitalism or anarchism. He considers Rothbard, Mises and other guys gods.

Also what should I read to get good arguments as Anarcho Syndycalist?


 No.36069

>>36051

>Also what should I read to get good arguments as Anarcho Syndycalist?

No clue, I figured you'd know since you believe in it.

What is the end goal anyway? Society and economy uncontrolled except for the stabilizing presence of strong unions and associations? Or are unions and associations just tools to be discarded once the state is abolished?


 No.36073

Commie Anarchist here. I plan on opening up a scrapyard and using it to educate people about science and engineering through Socratic seminars (and class consciousness). The way to liberate the proles is to provide free education in my opinion. agitate, educate, organize.

I hope my thing will be the start of a schway cyberpunk scrap city. Hope it doesn't get massacred like the paris commune.


 No.36074

Crypto-anarchist here. I'm not a real anarchist, because anarchists are idealists and idealists are idiots, but I'm pretty libertarian.

I'm not the anarchist shithead who wants all government regulations to dissapear. I don't like big government or big corporations. Fuck them both. I would prefer to see a decentralized sharing economy in the future where people are still making brouzouf.


 No.36088

>>36051

Mutualist chummer who knows 5 pounds of soykaf 'bout ancapism jackin' in. You can't into ancaps without Bastiat ("The Law" and "Parable of the Broken Window"). Then, head to Molinari ("The Production of Security"). Right now, you left behind 70% of the libertarians data: my ass. Rothbard? Nope. Mises? Nope². You go full Böhm-Bawerk, specially the one about exploitation theory. As a anarchosynd, you're gonna kick some chairs and punch some tables on every paragraph. No stahp! Böhm-Bawerk is some nice reading, even though he's a heartless shazbot.

Still here? Good, good. Look ahead: there's a bifurcation. So, Rand or Mises?

if choice == 'Rand':

echo 'Kill yourself!'

Nice. Be Mises then. There are some things about Mises you must be aware about. First of all: He's passionate. Second: He's intense. Last: He gives two fucks 'bout "free market"-based débâcle and that's it. So, Economic Policy. That's pretty much everything you must get from Mises (assuming you're no ancap shazbot at this time). Human Action is a tour de force. Just like the Bible, it's ok to read it entirely just to brag 'bout, but you could skip lots of chapters with no real loss. If you like economics, like a lot, if you fuck macroeconomics while licking econometrics' pussy in the morning, ok, follow Hayek the titless one. You can read "Denationalisation of brouzouf". It's nice read, indeed.

Oh gosh, whaddafuck you still doin' here? Ok, ok. I see "rothbard" flashing in your eyes. Fuck off! Keynes > Rothbard, and that's not even a compliment to Keynes, dat bank bitch! Go Nozick/Hoppe or go home! Now you can understand what's going on inside ancaps' minds, at least inside the minds that matter. Every time anyone shouts "ROTHBARD", just nod and smile, go home, fuck your girlfriend, gently, and smoke a cigarette. You can live another day knowing your mind wasn't defiled by the childslaver.


 No.36128

File: 1446072368456.jpg (73.35 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, Stefan Molyneux.jpg)

This guy's pretty redpilled


 No.36131

>>36088

Bastiat is good, you have some good references


 No.36136

File: 1446076328433.png (221.84 KB, 449x401, 449:401, 1391761208603.png)

>>36128

>Stefan Molyneux

>aynclap

>le ebin red suppository /pol/ maymay

TRASH

TRASH EVERYWHERE


 No.36160

>>36088

>trying this hard to fit in


 No.36163

File: 1446106787965.png (445.65 KB, 1040x540, 52:27, 1442639746865-1.png)


 No.36172

>>36128

plz be a joke


 No.36175

>>36163

A retouch of my Trump one, very nice. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

>>36172

Yes, that is a joke, it has to be.


 No.36176

File: 1446119361795.jpg (14.8 KB, 424x278, 212:139, 345345.jpg)

>muh anarchism

>muh ancap

15 year old basement dweller retards


 No.36179

>muh anarchism

15 year old basement dweller retard shazbots


 No.36181

>>36179

>not being anarchist

you must be dumb


 No.36182

>>36181

literally underage derezzed


 No.36185

File: 1446122136674.jpg (2.93 MB, 2880x2016, 10:7, lefty reading list.jpg)

>>36051

See the right side of this chart produced by /leftypol/. Since you're on /cyber/ Bookchin will be right up your alley.


 No.36186

>>36185

>actually browsing /leftypol/

people like this exist?


 No.36194

The best description of anarchy I have ever heard was from Psycho-Pass, when someone said "Anarchy is the denial of government and authority; but in a way that's different from flat out chaos and disorder".


 No.36200

>>36131

I forgot 'bout David Friedman. He's nice read for general /cyb/, not so much for anarchy (he's a fucking utilitarian ancap). Also, Isaiah Berlin's "Two concepts of liberty" is a must-read if you're tending towards individualism.


 No.36204

>>36194

Its just not putting up with heirarchy man. Its literally in the name.

Remember: never submit, organize!


 No.36269

>>36194

You must not have seen many descriptions of anarchy then. Tried actually reading any original sources there friend?


 No.36270

File: 1446184969892.jpg (60.51 KB, 450x394, 225:197, 3ff9c_mises-bitches.jpg)

>>35994

Your ideology is shit. You would know this if you knew anything about economics, syndicalist.

Preferring the producer interest over the consumer interest, which is characteristic of antiliberalism, means nothing other than striving artificially to maintain conditions of production that have been rendered inefficient by continuing progress. Such a system may seem discussible when the special interests of small groups are protected against the great mass of others, since the muh privileged party then gains more from his muh privilege as a producer than he loses on the other hand as a consumer; it becomes absurd when it is raised to a general principle, since then every individual loses infinitely more as a consumer than he may be able to gain as a producer. The victory of the producer interest over the consumer interest means turning away from rational economic organization and impeding all economic progress.

Syndicalism deliberately places the producer interest of the workers in the foreground. Syndicalism would make all repatterning of production impossible; it leaves no room free for economic progress.

Syndicalism impedes all economic progress. Any economic system that abolishes markets are bound to fail. That's where most collectivist ideologies fall apart, getting rid of markets.


 No.36271

File: 1446185601689.jpg (201.72 KB, 1000x672, 125:84, Cringing Furher.jpg)

>>36014

Fun fact on Anarchist Spain; Even if they did defeat the Spanish fascist onslaught they would have reached an inevitable economic slump. Read Espana. I would dump the pdf, but I don't have it on me.

Spain was mostly organized through roughly bureaucratic decentralized management even more inefficient than the USSR.

rip in peace schwayolinia

>>36069

>No clue, I figured you'd know since you believe in it.

kek he's literally a useful idiot

>>36073

Have fun with that, kiddo.

>>36074

>I'm not a real anarchist, because anarchists are idealists and idealists are idiots,

Good point.

>>36088

>Keynesianism

>Not shit


 No.36272

>>36025

>All the ancom literature I've read is about revolt with all the economic details being extremely vague, which leads me to believe that the entire thing is just a scam to destabilize regions so an authoritarian dickhead like Lenin can take over.

Hit the nail right on the head.

Anarchy is shit.


 No.36351

File: 1446381620953.jpg (31.42 KB, 514x536, 257:268, autism.jpg)

>>36270

>ancap posters

Do you know, that companies generate the worst degenracies of them all. Also, all ancaps act like they copyrighted free market, and leftists are forced to use centrilized markets. Syndicalism is about removing powers, and letting smaller groups work together, removing problems of state.

>inb4 companies control people cause they are funded by goverment

just kill yourself ancap

I consider my view on syndyclaism, as smaller independent group of people working for a good of everything.

Also ancaps are most cancerous a nd most hypocritical of all anarchists.


 No.36364

>>36351

Your rebuttal to his detailed explanation of why market-based anarchism is a more efficient system is nothing more than "BUT YOU'RE CANCER". You also bluntly stated that you consider your beliefs to be "for the good of everything" as if this is supposed to mean something to anyone but you. Please try and raise your level of discourse.

>>36272

That doesn't apply to all anarchism, just the commie stuff. Free market anarchism has some detailed ideas on how an anarchistic society might function, although certain things like environmental protection do not yet have any anarchist solutions. It's possible that no anarchist system may remain stable, but don't be so quick to discard the idea just because some people never put any thought into their beliefs. Even if anarchism can't work, consider the merits of a minimalist government: corruption becomes less profitable and thus less common, less brouzouf is spent on useless things like the war on drugs so less brouzouf is taken from those who have earned it.


 No.36379

File: 1446463702989-0.jpg (803.13 KB, 853x1009, 853:1009, BTFO.jpg)

File: 1446463702990-1.jpg (43.79 KB, 391x565, 391:565, 1418895707039.jpg)

File: 1446463703728-2.png (1.01 MB, 1280x1163, 1280:1163, 1425324116962-1.png)

File: 1446463703729-3.png (417.92 KB, 540x531, 60:59, 1437503566075.png)

File: 1446463703730-4.png (90.6 KB, 461x437, 461:437, 1435973584080.png)

This thread turned to shit pretty quickly. I can't believe how politically and economically illiterate everyone in this thread is.

Not that I'd ever expect an intelligent conversation on /cyber/

>>36074

>I'm not a real anarchist, because anarchists are idealists

You clearly haven't read any anarchist theory if you believe this. Anarchism is grounded firmly in materialism.

>>36270

>austrian economics

>taken seriously by literally fucking no one in any economics department in the world

>'lol u dont even kno economics lolol here let me regurgitate some ancap propaganda to disprove you'

Oh, but I already know how you'll respond to that point: B-but academia is just all ESS JAY DOUBLEYOOS AND STAYTIST GOMMIE MARXISTS!!1!

Funnily enough, in Rothbard's "theory", he even has a section in The Anatomy of the State where he makes the point that academia basically functions entirely as a propaganda machine for the State - thus allowing ancaps to dismiss any points about how universally ridiculed their "theory" is. The salt is real.

>>36271

>muh White Race

>muh Aryan Traditions

>muh Ultima Thule

Yes, anarchists are the idealists here. Top fucking schway.

Fascism's economic and political theory exists firmly and hilariously in a vacuum, completely outside of any dialogue with any philosophy, political theory, or economics whatsoever. Its key texts are ranting propaganda pieces written by sociopaths.

>>36272

>>36025

Again clearly haven't read any anarchist theory at all. Kropotkin's Conquest of Bread deals extensively with anarcho-communist economics.


 No.36380

>>36379

>everyone

Well, mostly everyone.


 No.36388

>>35994

>except primitivists

Anarchists in name only I see.


 No.36389

Oh look, another /pol/ vs /leftypol/ thread. I must be on the murica part of 8chan again.


 No.36405

>>36204

>Its just not putting up with heirarchy man. Its literally in the name.

>not putting up with hierarchy

>in the name

>Remember: never submit, organize!

Any such organization is a hierarchy when contrasted with the unorganized individuals. Thus you see power in hierarchy. Gotcha, sucker.

The only reason that Anarchy doesn't work is that it's out competed by every other political system on the fucking planet.


 No.36414

>>36389

I'm not from either of those boards nor am I a burgerclap. This thread might be a bit off topic but no more so than "burritos are cyberpunk".

>>36405

The republic was "outcompeted" for quite some time, then eventually returned. Changes in society and technology can lead to different forms of government becoming viable.

>>36379

I did in fact state that I haven't read much ancom and was looking for a recommendation. No need to be snarky. I've done some reading through The Conquest of Bread and it doesn't give a satisfactory explanation of how such a system would work. Every chapter contains tons of "capitalism is unfair", moderate amounts of "how to revolution" and basically no explanations of economics. It doesn't satisfy my inner aspie. Do you have anything written in the last 20 years with some maths?

Since you imply that you've read plenty of anarcho-communist literature, answer me this: In an anarchist land, what is to stop people from engaging in capitalism? Since the word capitalism means different things to different people, my question uses the following definition from the wiki:

>Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industry, and the means of production are privately owned and operated via profit and loss calculation (price signals) through the price system.


 No.36480

File: 1446579627153.jpg (121.59 KB, 460x288, 115:72, checkEm1309992714001.jpg)

>>36388

Anarchism is the absence of formal government, it's not the absence of all standards and restrictions.

Nice doubles though. You must be a Nazi with doubles like those.


 No.36506

>>36480

Technological society, namely anything where even farming and writing are used, prompts humans to develop formal governmental structures.

At any rate, I don't see how such a 'society' of anarchists, primitive or otherwise, would resist the encroachment of neighbouring states. And neighbouring states do encroach. If you apply evolution to anarchism it seems that it doesn't exist because it can't compete with a coherent state system.


 No.36756

>>36414

> what is to stop people from engaging in capitalism

> Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industry, and the means of production are privately owned

Not the person you're replying to, but it's the privately owned part. I have to go off track a little before I answer your question, so just bear with me for a bit.

Private ownership of the means of production is a form of private property, and anarchists make a distinction between ownership and property. Private property is when you and society agree that individuals are allowed to claim resources are exclusively theirs and no one else can have them. Why should we be allowed to claim exclusive right to resources? I'm not saying we shouldn't be, but it's important to ask the question in the first place. To frame it a bit differently, under what circumstances is it reasonable to claim exclusive access to resources? My toothbrush is mine, the clothes I'm wearing. These make sense. But what about land? Land is, by default, what we call "commonly owned", meaning everyone has access. It might make sense for land to be "mine" under certain circumstances (especially since I'd like a degree of privacy, to be able to build a shelter, grow crops, etc.), but what about the idea that I can move away and refuse to allow anyone else to begin using "my" land?

Right now, we claim land and resources are ours, and we back this claim using force – specifically the state and its legal system. This is a construct. There's no divine law that says we can claim land as being ours forever. In an anarchist society, private property would need to be defended using force without any state or societal notion that it's okay, which would be taken as an act of aggression toward the community. This is why we have the phrase "property is theft".

Capitalism under anarchy would be regarded as thieving from the populace and wouldn't be tolerated. But you could do some variant, where you agree upon some brouzouf commodity and you trade in the things society agrees can belong to you. Under some forms of anarchy, you would be allowed access to tools, resources, machinery, etc. and the things you create would belong to you for you to sell or trade. Kropotkin argues that you have no right to claim these things as your own because you couldn't have made them without the resources of your community and the ideas that influenced you (on the shoulders of giants, etc), but personally I'm inclined to think that some manipulation of incentives through social constructs is valuable.

But I'm going to start that explanation by arguing against that rather than for it. We often hear things like "but who would scrub toilets if everyone were equal?" (just an example), which I think is built on the notion that the toilet scrubbers are at fault for their low economic status. We know that a lot of factors contribute to their economic status aside from their own ability, but even if it were their own fault, would that make it ethical to use the economic system to force them into working a poor job with little upward mobility (we're pretending that toilet scrubbing is a job that exists)?

If economics is the study of incentives, most of our incentives come from our desire for upward mobility. Economics under anarchy with no market is a lot simpler just because of the lack of coercive forces in the economic system (or at least it seems that way to me; I am not well-read on economics). But anyway we probably agree that it might be good to allow people to own things they create if only to boost their incentive to create them. If their work would just be distributed among the community without any benefit to them for creating it aside from the joy of creation, it might mean their incentives are too low compared to capitalism. But this is still pretty far away from capitalism as we see it.

To draw this to a close, though, what stops the existence of capitalism is the nature of the chosen anarchist system. Some limited forms could exist. Some anarchists are market anarchists. It really just depends.


 No.36781

File: 1447021677870.jpg (29.29 KB, 500x500, 1:1, anarkonazi.jpg)

I guess I am not welcome here as a National Anarchist.


 No.36818

>>36271

>Read Espana

Who wrote Espana? What is it?


 No.36832

>>36176

>muh "only kids are anarchists" Chinese mae-mae

You have to be new. You /have/ to be.


 No.36833

>>36781

How the fuck does that even work?


 No.36837

>>36756

Excellent, just the kind of reply I was hoping for.

A few things stuck out to me though.

>In an anarchist society, private property would need to be defended using force without any state or societal notion that it's okay, which would be taken as an act of aggression toward the community.

This is not what happened in the ungoverned old american west. Communities set up property registries and neighbors defended each other's land. Because of this rather simple system, people could travel and expect to have a home to return to. I would also like to note that by definition, defending anything with or without force is not an act of aggression.

>Capitalism under anarchy would be regarded as thieving from the populace and wouldn't be tolerated.

You state this, but I am an anarchist and I don't consider the private production of wealth to be theft. That might just be semantics, so I'll assume you meant under some kind of collectivist anarchy. The real question I'm asking is not if or why capitalism would not be tolerated, but how it would be eliminated.

If your group of collectivists have a loom to make cloth, that's fine. But if I make my own loom (or buy one) and I produce cloth for sale and personal use, how would you plan to stop me? I'm not interested in sharing my loom with the community because someone will break it and I won't get to use it when I need it. If you come to shoot me for not sharing, how are you any different from the IRS? I'm doubtful of the argument that people will not buy my cloth. The majority of people do not and never will have strong political motivations, and if I have beautifully patterned cloth for sale people will trade for it out of convenience.

>what stops the existence of capitalism is the nature of the chosen anarchist system.

How exactly does that work?

A little thought experiment unrelated to the previous discussion. How do nuclear weapons or any other kind of MAD weapon work in an anarchist society (any type)? You can pretend that they won't exist, but perhaps someone builds one? Having the power to make thirty thousand people die overnight has rather significant effects in terms of defending "your" land, or perhaps taking things from other people. It follows that if one person/group (Alice) owns nukes, at least one other person (Bob) would want to build nukes to be able to prevent Alice from extorting things from Bob or anyone that Bob is friendly with. Now we have your classic MAD situation where Alice and Bob can't fuck with each other too much but they can fuck with everyone else quite a bit. Doesn't seem any different from the world we have right now, actually. Another perspective, perhaps? My conclusion is rather disappointing.

How about cities? Cities are pretty fucked up right now. How do we coordinate the building of infrastructure under an anarchist system? Sewage, transport, communications. Communications have been shown to work pretty OK under an anarchist system, it's how the internet has been run since the early days. We've seen small scale toll roads, but many private toll roads were actually funded by governments and sold to corporations in corrupt deals. I personally don't like toll roads. Dealing with sewage is essential but I have few ideas on how to deal with it sans government. Without well-maintained infrastructure, cities cannot exist. If nobody but government has a solution for infrastructure problems, then cities will remain governed.

>>36781

I don't see why you wouldn't be.


 No.36839

>>36833

Nation in this context refers to a people, for example the Ndebele Africans. Instead of having a state to protect and rule over them, they would form an national autonomous zone that Ndebele people would be free to live in separate from others. There would also exist inter-national zones open to all peoples for trade, discussion, etc.

It's a little jarring at first because nationalism is often associated with fascism, but it has some neat ideas. The first time I saw anyone mention it I thought it was a joke. I'm hoping the anarchonaz can provide deeper insight.


 No.36841

>>36837

> You state this, but I am an anarchist and I don't consider the private production of wealth to be theft.

> I'll assume you meant under some kind of collectivist anarchy.

It sounds like you're coming from a pretty individualistic and capitalistic place, so I'm going to try to convey some of my underlying positions. I'm an individualist and an egoist, but I believe that the best way to maximize individual autonomy is through a collectivist form of anarchy. Many others agree, so you'll find plenty of anarcho-{collectivist,communist,socialist}s who aren't particularly altruistic. Personally the word altruism leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I just don't think private ownership is easily implemented, and I think some forms of it are unethical.

The difficulty of implementing private ownership lies in the logistics of enforcing ownership. Common ownership is easy because no one owns most of the resources, and everyone just kind of takes what they need. I'm coming from a post-scarcity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_scarcity) position, which mostly just means we kind of share the work of producing and obtaining resources such as food and clothing and everyone just kind of does what they feel like doing. All time is spare time, no one is obligated to work in any way, but it's probably a bit frowned upon to do nothing all day.

The ethical issues come from coercion. Most capitalists believe that if I choose to work for a particular company in exchange for a wage, I made that decision of my own free will. Most anarchists believe that capitalism is coercive, that the economic system drives me to accept a deal I wouldn't ordinarily accept. I think this is readily apparent when imagining post-scarcity communities like I've described above. Would I trade my labor and time for a wage if I didn't need to in order to survive, or would I devote my time to self-actualization, to art, or even to working in the same way I would have done for a wage, only in exchange for partial ownership of the fruits of my labor instead? This is why most anarchists say that anarcho-capitalists aren't truly anarchists, that capitalism creates involuntary hierarchies.

With that said, it doesn't make sense (to me, though Kropotkin might not agree) to claim that all forms of private ownership are theft. I think we'd agree that the things you create with your loom are yours and yours alone, and the loom would be yours too. I don't personally find the idea that everything I create can be taken from me because it's not "really mine" at all appealing. I just think post-scarcity "collectivism" makes the most sense as an individualist and egoist.

> if I have beautifully patterned cloth for sale people will trade for it out of convenience.

I'm glad you said this because it helped me conceptualize the distinction between access to resources and access to things we've created. I think it's likely that people would continue to trade in items like this. I can see trading jewelry for a painting, something I've made for something you've made, etc. Items of sentimental value or of appealing craftsmanship rather than monetary worth. The current notion of monetary value comes from scarcity (with some exceptions), and post-scarcity renders this notion obsolete.

> This is not what happened in the ungoverned old american west

> I would also like to note that by definition, defending anything with or without force is not an act of aggression.

> The real question I'm asking is not if or why capitalism would not be tolerated, but how it would be eliminated.

> >what stops the existence of capitalism is the nature of the chosen anarchist system.

> How exactly does that work?

I assume the old west was full of people who believed in property rights, and that leaving didn't function as a signal that you've surrendered ownership. The nature of the anarchy determines how these kinds of things work. If we form the society on the basis that land is commonly owned, and you insist that the acre of land in front of your house is yours but you don't use it for anything, someone may plant something on it. If you then destroy what they've planted, you may be the one committing theft, not them. It very much depends on the bases of the established society.

As for how they would stop you from participating in something similar to capitalism, it would most likely be by denying you access to the available resources and ostracizing you from the community. But as long as your trade wasn't exploitative, I doubt anyone would mind. I figure trade isn't going away.


 No.36842

>>36837

> Doesn't seem any different from the world we have right now, actually. Another perspective, perhaps? My conclusion is rather disappointing.

My conclusions here are equally disappointing. Weapons of mass destruction already exist, and I don't think it's likely that they would cease to exist under anarchism. We may actually want to find common ground with the primitivists in order to discuss solutions to these sorts of problems.

> How about cities?

> How do we coordinate the building of infrastructure under an anarchist system?

> Sewage, transport, communications.

> it's how the internet has been run since the early days.

> Without well-maintained infrastructure, cities cannot exist.

There are three principles that I think can take us a long way here: shared labor, minimizing maintenance and overhead, and "do-ocracy".

Shared labor is a somewhat common theme in anarcho-communism and in discussions about deprecating the traditional model of work/labor. The idea is that rather than having people who "are" plumbers, farmers, etc., these jobs could be divided up and taken in shifts. With enough people, everyone might dedicate a few days per month, or less, to covering the needs of the entire city, or even a larger area. It would just require coordination. This would apply pretty well to handling sewage, depending on how much of the job requires professional training. Check this out: http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html

Minimizing overhead and maintenance applies especially well to transportation and the internet. Imagine a wireless network that covers the entire city and connects to the networks of neighboring cities (which connect to the networks of neighboring cities, and so on). It would be possible to reach servers in cities across the globe, and the wireless connections come with a lot of advantages, particularly privacy advantages. Now, imagine self-driving, solar-powered cars and buses without individually owned vehicles. Traffic becomes a non-issue, parking lots cease to exist, more land is allocated to residents, parks, etc. Now, imagine that buildings are made for short-term use, there's a centralized repository containing coordinates, and people/"businesses" can re-organize freely and without notice.

Starting from scratch involves approaching old problems from new angles, but that's a feature, not a bug.


 No.36843

>>36842

whoops, meant to link to http://www.communitywiki.org/en/DoOcracy and mention that my transportation and internet ideas were just quick and dirty examples. I don't think it's too difficult to design systems like this once you're already starting from scratch


 No.36860

Crypto anarchist.

I'm not the guy on the streets making moves, I'm the guy behind the scenes. I ensure that those who do act have secure email/IM and a forum to discuss and organize.

I'm the guy explaining about the spying from the boys at NSA, GCHQ or our country's version.

I'm the guy setting up security against the spying, telling them I can't get rid of it but can mitigate against it if they follow my instructions.

I'm the guy keeping the computers and phones fixed and working.

I'm the guy you don't see, the guy almost nobody knows exists, the guy without who everything falls apart.


 No.36864

>>36860

Whats a good start to learn more about proper security practices?


 No.36867

>>36860

The sad part is that activist organizations are deeply infiltrated by spies and government agents, so no matter how much work you put into protection from electronic surveillance the best you can achieve is what was had in the 1970s when the FBI used far-(left|right) groups to murder people they didn't like.

I think what's needed is an updated set of practices to protect organizations from these bastards. Remember the "security culture" textfiles you've read? Think something like that except to protect the organization instead of only the people inside. What if someone figured out how to set up a honeytrap for the FBI? Catching them doing something so illegal that even the FBI couldn't get away with. If the FBI isn't actually manipulating political organizations for their own ends then there's no risk in setting up the honeytrap. If they are, then the payoff is worth it.


 No.36881

>>36864

Google it.

(Hint; if you google it, then don't even bother worrying about security)


 No.36887

>>36480

>anarchism is the absence of formal government

its just the absence of hierarchy, there will still be government. Horizontal federations and worker collectives.


 No.36891

>>36379

The parent does have the legal right not to feed the child.

They can give the child up for adoption.

>>36887

So is a direct democracy anarchist? Would you consider a loose alliance of such city-states anarchist?


 No.36902

File: 1447282503378.png (361.48 KB, 576x566, 288:283, 1443119386531.png)

Any Marxist-Leninists here?


 No.36910

>>36902

Kill yourself


 No.36941

File: 1447363661850.jpg (31.58 KB, 477x424, 9:8, 1443732852936.jpg)


 No.36955

>>36887

>Horizontal federations and worker collectives.

Those are not government. A government is a collective group of people that exercises executive authority in a state, usually on the basis of some "social contract" that everyone implicitly agrees to just by being born.


 No.36967

>>36902

gb2leftypol, we don't want commies here.

State control can get fucked.


 No.36968

>>36941

top schway


 No.36977

File: 1447421947349.gif (466.58 KB, 450x187, 450:187, tumblr_lr2nhyTqoF1r2hzh6o1….gif)

>>36967

Cyberpunk is where state control actually gets fucked ;)

>>36910

approved message


 No.37048

File: 1447552403520.gif (436.69 KB, 245x118, 245:118, 1447284531849.gif)

>>36379

>anarchism

>grounded firmly in materialism


 No.37145

>>36839

You've summed up it perfectly my beliefs. In my case, I believe the Appalachian nation should be freed from the American state and live autonomously. Of course I do not identify myself as a nazi or any fascist ideology, this "Anarkonazi" thing is a joke made up by a slang some Ancoms call us.


 No.37149

>>36781

I feel that positions like fascism and nationalism make nations strong by throwing out the weakest people in them. Coupled with anarchy this could be really bad.

How will you support the homeless and poor?

How will you provide support for those with disabilities?

How will you provide state support for filthy impoverished refugees?

I'm guessing that in your position some or all these people simply don't deserve state support or that it is impractical and dangerous to the nation to support some or all of these people. You might also have the position that citizens simply do not have the moral responsibility to do anything to support those people.


 No.37161

File: 1447798025222.jpg (30.31 KB, 675x450, 3:2, lead_large.jpg)

This just in.

Shitstains of society are grouping themselves under -ism labels.

Ironically anarchism groups and labels are included, proving that Anon can not comprehend the nuances of social interactions, and can not hide their deep desire to be accepted and to belong in a group.


 No.37162

File: 1447807979622.jpg (20.59 KB, 258x314, 129:157, 1358472098871.jpg)

>>37161

You mean like Fasc-ism, Naz-ism, and Capital-ism?


 No.37167

Do you guys think that anarchy will get somewhat a chance in Catalonia if it ever got independence?


 No.37255

>>37149

>state support

you really don't understand this "anarchism" thing, do you?

>refugees

you don't seem to understand the "nationalism" thing either.


 No.37269

>>37149

Anarchism isn't just about having no state, it's about eliminating hierarchies and classes. If there are homeless people, it isn't anarchy. I rec you do some research


 No.37270

>>37149

>>37269

whoops, this sounded cold and condescending instead of casual.

The main idea behind anarchism is that no one should have authority over you, and that's not limited to the state. The flip side of this coin is that capitalism (in its current form and in many variant forms) includes a degree of coercion (e.g. you have to choose between working and starving to death). Anarchy, then, would be without capitalism, without a state, and without other hierarchies that force you to do things you'd rather not do


 No.37307

>>36128

Uh, I find that guy disturbing in some way. His voice is just really uncomfortable.


 No.37309

File: 1448122755980.png (42.87 KB, 900x600, 3:2, oppressedbynature.png)

>>37270

>coercion (e.g. you have to choose between working and starving to death)

Well, that's something you gotta fight nature about then.


 No.37310

>>37149

>How will you support the homeless and poor?

Voluntary community housing and teaching farming or whatever necessary.

>How will you provide support for those with disabilities?

Transhumanism is there to help. In a near future almost all human biological disabilities can be replaced.

>How will you provide state support for filthy impoverished refugees?

Fuck the refugees. It's all for MY nation only. If they need help search their own national counter-parts.


 No.37322

>>37310

>Transhumanism is there to help. In a near future almost all human biological disabilities can be replaced.

What about mental disabilities?


 No.37368

>>37322

There's no difference. The brain is a machine like the rest of our organs. If you modify it so that it does the things that you want then the problem is over.


 No.37387

itt: anarcho-communists

you shazbots are ruining anarchism for everyone


 No.37397

>>37387

Capitalo-cuck detected. Go fund yourself.


 No.37406

>>36837

>How about cities?

Without capitalism and statism there would be very little reason to live in cities, in fact most of the time living in a city is a "sacrifice" people take to have more economic opportunities.

I'm sure cities would be pretty depopulated in an anarchist world.


 No.37407

>>36506

>If you apply evolution to anarchism it seems that it doesn't exist because it can't compete with a coherent state system.

true, but that would mean statism is good maintaining itself in power, not that it's good to the people living in it.


 No.37461

File: 1448565020957-0.png (155.81 KB, 1806x1252, 903:626, leftypol is all about free….png)

File: 1448565020957-1.png (401.14 KB, 1814x2058, 907:1029, leftypol tottally doesn't ….png)

>We're totally not shills i swear!


 No.37481

>>37461

>implying /pol/ doesn't plan attacks on other boards (esp. leftypol) and strategies to spread their ideology

>implying one anonymous poster very obviously claiming to be a shill is evidence that all of /leftypol/ are shills

>implying /pol/ never carries out false flag operations


 No.37501

>>37461

Of course the retarded anarcho-shazbots think FOSS is commie because they don't understand property or contracts


 No.37512

>>37397

okay lets go all hold hands and celebrate COMMUNISM together.

its like you *want* our cyberpunk future to be a dystopian one


 No.37516

>>37481

>implying just because /pol/ is cancer that it's okay for you to be cancer

Are you fucking twelve?


 No.38521




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