/digipen/ - DigiPenitentiary

In GAM 100, I was on a team of three, including myself. When it came time for us to figure out what our game was going to be, one of the other guys had all these crazy ideas for how it was going to be the best game ever, with all these different features and characters and classes and perks and procedural generation and so on and so forth. I started to panic, since I'm terrible at being social, but, having made games before enrolling, and also because I had a brain at all, I realized that these ideas were all incredibly overscoped and there's no way the game was going to be anything but a trainwreck. I designed and prototyped an alternative game idea, one that was incredibly simple but left plenty of room for level design, polish, and additional features, but my teammates rejected it because the one guy really liked his idea and the other guy sided with him for some reason. I left the team and made my idea by myself, and it turned out totally fine. It wasn't the best GAM 100 game of all time or anything, but I got the basic game done very early on and spent the rest of the time polishing it, while my former teammates hired another programmer and struggled to pare down their design into something that had even a remote chance of being completed. Their final game was totally fine, but holy shit am I ever glad I didn't have to go through that. I still have their initial "design docs" (seriously, they're so full of the most earnestly overscoping to the point that it seems like satire), and my response to it (including the design of what would become my game), saved somewhere and I could totally post them here with names redacted… but I dropped out, those guys are still enrolled, and I don't need to give them (and, by extension, everyone else who used to be friends with me) any more reason to hate me :\

As for advice: this won't help you, obviously, but maybe it'll help people looking for new teams:

Don't be on a team with your friends. ESPECIALLY don't be on a team consisting of nothing but you and your friends. If it were up to me, DigiPen teams would be randomized anyways.

That's too bad OP. The best course of action depends on your specific situation, but the best general advice I can give is re-scope accordingly now that your team is (officially) one member short, and if you want to hire a replacement talk with their former team first because they might've gotten fired for a similar reason.

>>3102

That's also a shame. It sounds like you were one of the few people in that class who knew what they were doing too. I hope everything's turning out okay for you now. I wouldn't be surprised if I know some of the people you mentioned at one point. There were way too many people in my class who stuck around for year two and hadn't learned the meaning of scope (most either dropped, transferred, or actually wisened up after GAT picked up though).

To any freshmen reading this, don't kick yourself too hard for overscoping. Yes it's a habit you need to break early, but that's what GAM 100 is there to teach you (among other things). Learn fast, fail fast, and realize that you don't need to be perfect to get through life.

>>3102

>>3106

Appreciate the sympathy. I think the lesson I've learned is to definitely be picky about who I can work with if I have the choice at all. My first team was formed by myself and two complete strangers last year, and the three of us became pretty much best friends. Only reason we didn't want to work together this year was because we didn't want to be those guys who only work together.

>>3125

I fail to see how anything I've said is any different from the incredibly detailed stories people have given about roommates and classmates, aside from the fact that apparently you know who I'm talking about so it hits closer to home

>>3102

>> If it were up to me, DigiPen teams would be randomized anyways.

I actually agree with this…but it would require the teachers to be more hands on, and pay more attention to individual problems.

>>3167

Randomized teams may not be a good idea in the long run; after all, statistically there'd be at least one freak per team. Maybe gam100 should do randomized teams since (at least when I took it) schilling was paying attention to how the games in his lab section were doing

>>3170

Yeah, then you fuckin balance that shit. As it stands, all the "good" people group together pretty quickly, creating superteams eventually, while people who legitimately want to learn but don't have prior knowledge or whatever flounder with the rest of the "lower caste", creating barely functional game projects. I have watched this happen to friends of mine, and I felt horrible.

How is that fair at all?

Right now, if you enroll freshman year at DigiPen as BSCSGD or RTIS, and you've never written a line of code in your life but have a decent math background from high school and an eagerness to learn, but, despite working your ass off, passing CS 120 with like a B, and doing everything you can to succeed… you're still going to get stuck with a shit team, unless you happen to have a compassionate friend who wants to help you out (these become less frequent as the years go on).

Again, not speaking from personal experience (I came in with tons of prior programming experience), but I have seen friends fall victim to this, and it just sucks so much. It shouldn't be a fucking competition; you're attending college to learn, not to compete with each other.

>>3171

Of course, I don't mean to imply that everyone who enrolls with no prior programming knowledge flounders; obviously some very smart people catch on pretty quickly. But not everyone does! Especially BSCSGDs, who enrolled because they want to do game design and programming.

>>3171

So here's what I found out from my 2 years at DigiPen:

If you come across as a weak link to your peers, THEY ARE going to completely avoid you. I ended up in this boat after some time because frankly I couldn't code, can't draw, can't play an instrument, I'm not good looking, and I don't have money. Then, I met up with some upper classmen and unlike your typical DP student, I could maintain a conversation. I ended up becoming fast friends with lots of graduates this way. Those connections got me jobs that have pretty much kept me in a very happy place now (cept for Wargaming…that place can go kick rocks).

So, if you are in a similar situation, ask yourself these questions:

Are you shit at programming (or whatever your major is)?

Are you good at talking to people?

Over 21?

Go to the weekly meetup (it's a secret to everyone), get hammered, meet new people that actually have jobs in the industry and fake it til you make it. Also, you might actually make some pretty awesome friends that didn't OD on the Kool Aid from day 1.

>>3181

What weekly meetup? As in meetup.com meetup, or something more underground?

>>3207

There's a thing called Beer Wednesday's that's exetremely not secret, where people go to a bar on Wednesdays, and hang out.

I mean it's possible there's another meeting, but it seems like their referring to this.

>>3181

Already dropped out! And yep, the few friends I have left are those who didn't drink get liver poisoning from drinking too much of the Kool-Aid. Everything you said is pretty spot-on though.

Also, the number one lesson I learned (that is now useless to me, but may be helpful to others): DigiPen students don't like negative feedback from their peers

Even though it's tempting to think of GAM as a professional job, GAM teams are comprised of overstressed students who are struggling to make a game as they learn how to do so. When I make something and show it to my team, I am more than happy to listen to any feedback, positive or negative. Especially negative! I want to improve my shit, and, if nothing else, GAT taught me to at least listen to all feedback.

However, I came into DigiPen with more programming and game design experience than most, and I didn't figure out until after I crashed, burned, and dropped out that students in GAM really don't want to hear negative feedback. I completely understand it now, of course, because hindsight 20/20 and all. If I was just learning programming while taking a full course load, and I struggled to finally get some code together that barely works, I might not want to hear anything bad about it, either.

>>3238

Yep, that's the thing. And it's not really a secret. I just figured the people who knew would chuckle (there's a lot) and might even be able to pickup the subtle Zelda reference.

>>3207

Just go to the Juanita pub in Kirkland and get your world rocked. We try to at keep it on the downlow to some degree because the last thing we want is for most of the dickheads to catch on and start going too. We have had to deal with it on a few occasions.

It's a really chill crowd and you'll make plenty of friends. You don't even need to drink (much) just don't be a fucking stick in the mud or cause drama. It's as simple as that.

>>3249

Oh yeah, there's that too. Frankly, I never cared much for GAT but the one thing that stuck out to me is just how most people were unwilling to listen to critical feedback even if it came from the horse's mouth.

Allow me to make a LoL comparison (I figure most of us have played it or some MOBA):

The people that STAY in Bronze-Gold Elo (+ low Plat) are kind of like the aforementioned DP GD students we have been talking about. They are unwilling to take criticism, get very aggressive when you don't agree with them and they end up costing your team in the longrun. This inability to learn from mistakes and instead place the blame on others (playtesters, roommates, TAs, the teachers, etc) are going to be the ones that will never end up going forward unless they get really lucky when somebody else carries them hard.

The people that end up getting into Plat and above are the ones that can learn from their shortcomings, contribute to the team more consistently and are able to handle what gets thrown their way in a calm and collected manner. They've already been through shitty circumstances (such as working with people that enhance the workload aka FEEDERS) more than they want to admit. You can count on them to be very productive members of the team.

And FIzz mains are cancerous little fucks, regardless of skill.

That's pretty much how I see the game design students at the school.

>>3274

>Don't want the dickheads and weirdos to catch on

>talks about it on 8chan

>>3290

Comparing people I've seen in the past at DP in person vs the small minority of people here, I'm fine with mentioning it here more-so. Besides, we don't have much trouble telling the unwanted crowd to buzz off since they come in 1-3 at a time.

Just don't want a flier in every hallway advertising it.

So I'm in Gam100, and I've got a teammate/friend who assumes we're going to continue working together next semester, but they kind of dead weight. They can do some stuff, but knowing their coding ability they are probably going to be kind of far behind next semester. I want a team who is intrinsically motivated, not motivated by deadlines and their teammates assigning them work.

Any advice on how to handle this conversation? Id prefer not to burn this bridge, but I'll do what I have to.

>>3333

I actually have been in your exact situation. I wound up telling them that while I enjoyed working with them, since it was only freshman year, I wanted to try and work with different people.

Worked pretty well; we remained friends, and he got better over sophomore year, so we started working together again junior year and made a kickass game

>>3333

Just say that you want to try teaming up with new people so you can have the experience of building a team with more experience. Honestly, I kinda feel like you should be doing that anyways.

>>3338

Right. Don't be Those Guys who only work together.

>>3333

If they're not childish then you should straight up say "You guys aren't pulling your weight and I'd like a more motivated team." I know it sounds harsh to the point of burning bridges, but it'll allow some people to analyze how much work they've done rather than actually ruin that connection. Then if they are a baby or not a baby "I want to get to know more people in our class since it'll help me in future."

Trust me, even if your future teams may be shit, they'll know you. Hopefully you weren't dead weight so they'll remember you in a positive way. You should get to know your class starting now.. well more like during sophomore year since you'll see a lot of people dropping out freshman year which are mostly pointless connections for your career.

>>3333

I recommend telling them that your work styles don't mesh. I've turned down a few projects before more or less because I didn't want to work with the team. I put it to them in kinder words, but the people were reasonable, said okay, and we're still decent friends.

If your friend is reasonable, I expect you'll have a similar outcome.