/digipen/ - DigiPenitentiary

Maybe because most people came here either for STEM fields & art degrees, the people who wanted to go into gender studies went to a college that offers a full degree in it, and those most people here use their electives on more STEM field / art degree supplementary, because that's what they were interested in all along.

What are you implying?… gamergater.

>>3615

I'm implying exactly what >>3614 is saying.

The real question is why an independent study class appeared in the course catalog this year.

>>3617

Because denying something that covers that particular subject can give ammo to calling the school sexist / transphobic / whatever.

DigiPen isn't stupid and I don't blame them. Any denial of progressiveness is suicide for a college in this day and age. All it takes is a single social media post and WHAM, the school is under scrutiny for some form conjured up discrimination.

Its clearly (just like the renaming of the all-gender bathroom) a token gesture. And it shows, because no one wants to be part of it. The school is just coving their asses so those on a MacAruther style witch hunt dont point their torches at the faculty.

>>3615

>…gamergater

Really?

It's actually a pretty good class, the lectures are interesting and the reading is quite impactful. It's a decent chunk of reading and writing through (as a CS student), so if you're not willing to read the books somewhat quickly (They're small but still take time) and churn out a few pages every couple weeks, it's probably not the English elective for you. I'm not sure how the reading/writing compares to the other English classes though, so it might actually be less.

>>3630

found the tumblrite

>>3633

Community aside, I dislike Tumblr even as a platform, but I actually did take this class, and I actually did enjoy it. I'm not really sure what you expect it to be, but it's nothing crazy. Just a lot of sad reading and learning some history.

>>3633

So I've never been to tumblr but I see it thrown around. What's the deal with it? Why is approving of a gender studies class a rumblr thing and why is that bad?

>>3637

Tumblr is a social platform populated largely by socially progressive folk (feminists, liberals, et. al.)

Many people seem to be under the collective delusion that these so-called 'Social Justice Warriors' are out to censor all media and make all alpha manly cis men into whiny beta trans cucks or some bullshit like that.

Gender Studies is considered 'tumblr' because it's not an ALPHA STEM course and therefore completely pointless (never mind that some of the worst classes I had at Digipen were CS and some of the best were ENG.), and because it's not an ALPHA STEM course you're legally required to make fun of it as obviously the people taking the class are either "beta cuck manginas" or "feminazis".

tl;dr neo-right-wing reactionaries hate the presence of progressive thought anywhere and will go out of the way to demonize it to make a safe space for their own (shitty) opinions.

>>3646

Really, your description here makes you sound just as extremist as them.

Also

>never mind that some of the worst classes I had at Digipen were CS and some of the best were ENG

kek

>>3646

Whoa there friend, I didn't mean to hit a nerve.

Firstly though, since when the hell has STEM been a field associated with being Alpha? Man, times change…

Obviously though, there's nothing -wrong- with taking a gender studies course. I mean, I can see why people wouldn't do it, as it's not really going to grant you tangible skills that make you more proficient at doing your future job. But if you've got an elective or something, it sounds like a fine can't-fail-class.

Also, how on earth did you have a CS class you would call among the worst you've taken here? I can't imagine who might have taught that. Hanson, Mead, Volper are all amazing. Even the one shot professors like Rabin are great.

You're entitled to your opinion, but your description seems pretty biased. I assume you're a part of the "tumblr crowd" in the way you defend it? Would you say that you fit the "socially progressive" stereotype?

>>3650

Didn't mean to come off as aggro, sorry friend.

STEM being alpha isn't anything new. Surely you know atheists who just /won't shut the fuck up/ about atheism and how religion sucks? It's the same thing - STEMlords who just won't shut the fuck up about 'soft science' or 'liberal art' skills despite nothing being wrong with those things.

Yes, I would fit into the 'tumblr crowd' category insofar as I'm a liberal feminist (also a white male omg #triggered #checkyourprivilege). If you've been around you may know me as the guy who wrote way too many words about feminism in some thread that's probably dropped off the face of the earth by now. Don't get me wrong, though - myself (and a vast majority of those like me) love laughing at people who sexually identify as attack helicopters or are triggered by grapefruits as much as the next guy. But c'mon. Don't start shit with the school for offering the class, the prof for teaching it, or people for taking it. That shit's not cool. (I'm speaking in general, not to you specifically.)

I may be in a minority here but I never particularly liked Pushpak's classes. Nice enough guy, though. I've had to deal with Jeff Jeff and Portegys, though. There's a very good reason those two don't teach at DP anymore.

>>3651

>Pushpak

He never really taught his courses. He just wrote what was his notes onto the board and did it in 1/3rd of the class time. Though he was willing to help you during his office hours until you understood what was going on. So he wasn't entirely bad. Hanson and I think Josh is his name? are doing a much better job from the way I can see it. Still a pointless track of courses.

>Jeff Jeff

He was terrible. Ask for help? "Did you look at the MSDN? No? Well go look at it." And if you did? Go look at it again. There was one thing that he did alright was the assignments. They were structured in a nice manner that taught you TCP then UDP then to use both which was perfectly reasonable. Him never teaching you directly how to use winsock was garbage. I'm also glad Steve took over and he seemed to figured out how to structure 260 now.

>Portegeys

Without a doubt the worst professor that the school has employed.

Now that being said, I completely disagree with digipen having one of the best english courses I've taken. Fun? Sure. Enjoyable? Sure. Beyond that everyone pushes over every english prof about 'oh my god I have to work on game!' in which most just play video games all day. Which makes the assignments terrible without the need of quality. Though I'm sure most people don't care about some general credit that's required for accreditation as long as it's easy. Which is sad since I believe Sonia could easily have had one of the best english class that I could have had. Her lectures are on point, her class work is all over the place.

Nobody really gives a shit about a gender studies course. I do think it's silly when almost every course has relevance to video games, or ce, in some way and gender studies is uhh.. well we could debate about it being relevant. But in the end I personally don't give a shit. It's another elective. More choice is what the place needs. A LOT more choice is needed.

>>3651

I'm not sure I've had any of those professors. Mead, Volper, Rabin, we're the majority of my CS classes. Tony and Chris were duds though.

As far as starting shit about the fact that we have a gender studies course, I don't think anyone was doing that? The thread started with someone attacking people for NOT taking. As far as I know, I hear Sonya Michaels is cool and I'm sure the class is fine. I mean, I'd take it if I had the schedule room, but that's more because I would hope there would be people like OP in it to rile up. Watching spergs get mad is a unique pleasure.

>>3653

But the course was an independent study that only had room for one person to begin with. I'm sure someone could barge their way in if they wanted to but it's an extra step to do it.

But why on earth was this class in the course catalog to begin with?

>>3655

Likely because it needs to be in order for someone to take it. They probably NEED to make a new class for all the students taking an independent study version of a course.

It's likely just a side effect of legal bureaucracy and SRS technical quirkiness.

>>3656

Yeah but I'm taking a class that isn't offered in the course catalog but has 9 people in it with room for more.

>>3656

This. I've seen it through the attendance sheets in a few overloaded classes, made me chuckle the first few times when someone got an entire sheet just for their name. Sometimes they merge sheets once SRS isn't backlogged.

>>3653

Was anyone actually mad? I was under the impression that they were just pointing out that most of the student body are neutrals / casual observers to all the SJW whatever-you-want-to-call-it that gets brought up a lot.

>>3653

I have Sonya right now and she's definitely cool. I mean she certainly has political views that not everyone agrees with but she plays it neutral very professionally and is well aware of the controversy around divisive topics.

>>3646

This post reeks of smug internet progressive.

>APLHA STEM

STEM students are objectively more intelligent than other majors, deal with it.

>>3651

Surely you know ps ogressive who just /won't shut the fuck up/ about trans rights/blacklivesmatter and how white people suck? It's the same thing SJWS- who just won't shut the fuck up about the lack of diversity in tech' or 'STEMlords' despite nothing being wrong with those things.

>>3669

>>3670

>>3672

lmao at you salty nerds tripping over yourselves to try to out-stem me two weeks after I said something

>>3672

This reminds of of the diversity in tech talk that's going to happen in a bit.

I'd like to go and just ask them how they expect the workplace to have more women and non-white people when this school is 70-80% white males. Are there secret schools pumping out non white males to shore up the numbers?

>>3678

USC has a closer to 50/50 split, but it's more of a designer position, and less programming intensive.

The bottom line is that we need to ensure that the women that ARE interested feel comfortable joining the industry. Trying to meet some quota would be foolish and impossible, and would only end up punishing the people that ARE interested.

>>3669

>STEM students are objectively more intelligent than other majors, deal with it.

lol whut? Only if you have a super narrow definition of what "intelligence" is. Shakespeare? Michelangelo? Frank Lloyd Wright? Most people would agree that they are among the most brilliant individuals in recorded history.

It's that kind of elitist attitude that gives DP grads a bad name. You're not better than or contibuting to society more than someone who builds cabinets for a living. You aren't Elon Musk or Steve Wozniak. You're a skilled laborer, nothing more. Don't fool yourself into thinking different.

>>3679

The engineer asks how it works

The scientist asks why it works

The liberal arts student asks would you like fries with that.

>>3680

>implying the scientist doesn't also ask how you'd like your fries.

Ah, the delusional youth that attend this school.

>>3679

>We need to ensure that the women that ARE interested feel comfortable joining the industry

Repeating the idea that STEM is an evil boys club seems to be a poor way of going about doing that

>>3682

Are there science majors that can't get a job and have to work at a burger joint.

Sure.

Is it due to the reason employers think their degree is useless or their skills are not in demand.

Nope.

>>3684

>Are scientists looked down on for their degree?

No, not at all. In fact people think they're way more impressive than they are.

>Are their skills not in demand

Way less than you might think. Do you have any idea what the ratio is of science (not engineering) graduates to private sector positions that demand those specialties?

It's under 1. Employers get to pick and choose and many science majors are left without jobs in their fields.

>>3685

To be fair if you've read the stories that they bring in for interviews from CS grads are not qualified for the position despite having a degree in said field. That isn't to say that they can't be selective, because they easily can be. If you try hard enough you can obtain a job assuming you know how to program.. which a lot of grads don't know. Google it and you'll find a ton of articles about it from interviewers.

>>3685

http://www.king5.com/story/tech/2014/09/22/seattle-tech-firms-software-engineers-shortage/16080847/

That's simply not true, At least in this area. If you have a degree, experience, and you aren't a complete autist you have a very very good shot at getting a job. Will it be doing exactly what you want? maybe not, but you'll be able to put food on the table.

>>3687

>explicitly say science, not engineering

>you post a link about engineer job availability.

Come on man, you're better than that.

Though to clarify, when I say science I mean all of them. Biology, physics, chemistry, yada yada.

>>3680

This means nothing. You're comparing engineer, scientist, and a student. And, even by your own logic, someone in the liberal arts would ask "Why does society make it work that way?"

Also, it's a really pathetic attempt at a joke. Demand by society is not an adequate representation of contribution to society.

Finally, I never made any statement about the liberal arts. Shakespeare was a writer, Michelangelo was a painter, and Frank Lloyd Wright was an architect. With your highly intelligent posts, I shouldn't expect that you would waste your time learning such things.

>>3683

> Repeating the idea that STEM is an evil boys club seems to be a poor way of going about doing that.

Indeed it is. Which is why I believe certain individuals are making the world a worse and more divided place.

But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the idea that DigiPen students seem to have that nobody contributes to society that isn't a part of STEM, and that knowing the issues facing our peers somehow makes us worse off.

Gender issues are very much worth discussing, just as issues of race are. I think we very much need to have a candid discussion on how we depict women and minorities in video games and media. Hell, I think we need to have a discussion on mens issues as well, because there's something wrong with a society where men are going out, killing other men, and then having it turn into a "men don't own women's bodies" talking point.

>>3689

Yeah, I was talking about just the TE part of STEM (BSCS here). Point is there is a much higher demand for the "ALPHA STEM" students here than other whateverthefuck majors.

>contributions to society

Next time you use anything with a screen to do banking, acquire knowledge, or for entertainment, remember to thank the programmers and engineers :).

>>3690

You. I like you.

>>3691

And you don't forget the next time you eat food to thank the uneducated farmers who grew it.

>>3691

>>3694

If I may make a point, it's pretty hard NOT to contribute to society in some way.

No one contribution is superior to another, since they all fit together into a broader society to make it function.

>>3695

>no one contribution is superior to another.

>making fries at McDonald's is the same as discovering penicillin

You sound like you've got a good head on your shoulders.

>>3696

Importance =/= superiority

>>3696

>appeal to extremes

As do you, it'd seem.

>>3699

>clearly doesn't understand what appeal to extreme means.

There is no absurdity in the conclusion that I presented. Someone does contribute to society by making fries, and someone did discover penicillin.

That puts my argument in the reducto ad absurdum style, a valid form of argument.

You'd have been better off defining "superior" since it can be subjective. I mean you'd still be retarded, but at least you'd be standing on a "valid" point.

Kind of what >>3698 did.

Follow up being, define superiority of contribution in such a way that burger flipping out weighs discovering penicillin.

>>3696

You didn't discover penicillin. You aspire to make video games, and most likely focus on engine architecture at that. You should be so lucky as to make as profound an impact on the world as Cameraman #2 on this weeks episode of "Supergirl".

Making games is a collaborative effort. One that will require you to work with all sorts of non-STEM majors. Artists, musicians, sound designers, Psychologists, and yes, even designers. Hell, you'll probably even have to deal with some social scientists, and if you're the least bit important, some journalists.

You're allowed to like or dislike whomever you wish, but don't act like you're better just because they don't like the same things as you.

>>3712

L O L

O L O

L O L

No need to be defensive, friend.

No one was talking about the game industry on the whole. Read again:

>No one contribution is superior to another, since they all fit together into a broader society to make it function.

The statement was that no one contribution was superior to any other in terms of its importance to society on the whole. Obviously the man who discovered penicillin has contributed more than I likely will.

However it is sort of funny to read what sort of student you assume I am. (Also, you do realize that Psychologists -are- STEM majors? That S stands for Science).

>>3717

>Also, you do realize that Psychologists -are- STEM majors? That S stands for Science

Right, and so are Anthropology, Linguistics, History, Criminology…all of the social sciences. They, just like Psychology, are not usually included in discussions about STEM.

>>3730

Mainly because they rarely involve the TEM part.

>>3695

>>3712

Your fucking retarded.

>>3734

if you're going to call someone out on being retarded, check your spelling

>>3737

Well, I reiterate: You’re fucking retarded.

>>3737

and call out the same person. That's two people. There's an ID system on this board, fucking use it.

>>3775

social sciences are still sciences kappa

>>3775

I didn't, Wikipedia did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_science

Encyclopedia Britannica did

http://www.britannica.com/science/linguistics

Most universities put them in the same college, including UW

https://artsci.washington.edu/departments

The only Psychology teacher at the school (Hemovich) is a Social Psychologist. Emphasis on the social, as in Social Science.

You can pound your fists and deny it all you want, Psychology is a Social Science, just the same as Anthropology, History, Linguistics, Political Science, and Sociology.

>>3778

>that lack of critical thinking.

You're a BAGD aren't you?

The difference is psychology can follow the scientific process: observe -> hypothesize -> controlled test -> refine knowledge

Linguistics, history and anthropology can't, not without really stretching the definitions. Those fields simply observe and record.

Though I'm not surprised people here know nothing about science.

>>3784

Not to mention, the applications of the TEM part of STEM in these fields are very limited. Hence why nobody talks about them when they talk about STEM

>>3784

>>3785

>linguistics, history, and anthropology don't extensively use technology or mathematics

>they simply observe and record

Somebody doesn't know how work in those fields work.

>>3784

>>3785

Yeah, you two clearly don't know how genuine research in the social sciences is done. For a primer, here's a wikipedia article on The Scientific Method:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

Social sciences all use this, as well as all parts of STEM. I don't know what makes you think otherwise, other than just plain not wanting to know.

>>3788

>Non-scientists talking about how to do science.

That's a rather strange assumption to come to. For all you know, I could have quit my unfulfilling job as a research associate in order to bring some joy into this world through video games. Or a historian looking to learn how to make games and other computer programs that can compile historical artifacts and knowledge.

>Cites Wikipedia on unrelated topic in an effort to substantiate his claim.

It's not unrelated. You specifically brought up the Scientific Method and misrepresented it.

As for it being Wikipedia, as I said, it's a primer. If you really want to know a more in depth, I can certainly recommend some books you could read on the subject.