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/digipen/ - DigiPenitentiary

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File: 1425194593562.jpg (164.66 KB, 606x539, 606:539, Head-Up_Ass.jpg)

a8b0da No.781

So I'm transferring outa' the BAGD program after this semester after seeing what a shitty shallow program it is.
It seems like everyone else in the program either has their head firmly planted up their ass, holding an ignorant/smug view of game production, or is a fucking mouth-breather who “wans do make vi-eh-oh gams, duuuuur!”.
I’m currently caught between BSGD and RTIS. I know that RTIS is lock, stock and fucking kick-ass in their education, but what about BSGD? Is BSGD a valid program or just a small step up from BAGD retardation?

ca4a74 No.782

BSGD is basically the exact same as RTIS the first 2 years, and it is a lot of high level programming. Either way you will be much better off at getting a tech job than a BAGD. It really depends on what you want to do after school.

22481b No.783

If you want to design in any capacity, BSGD's a good choice. If you just want a job, go with RTIS.

aa2030 No.784

I'm pretty sure literally anything is a step up from BAGD.

8fd860 No.785

>>784
BSGD is very nearly a lateral step. Taking two years of BSGD is okay, if you don't mind dropping out and learning CS along the way. If you want a goddamn diploma, BSGD is the wrong choice.

For me personally, who actually cares and thinks deeply about video game design on a nearly constant basis, and also deeply enjoys programming (and not just "to get my ideas onto the screen"; I actually enjoy programming for the sake of programming) (doesn't this sound like what a BSGD should be?), BSGD is a horrible degree.

It basically boils down to how much you're willing to drink The Rhino's Kool-Aid when it comes to game design. If you think he's the greatest person and that his ideas about game design are correct, then yes, BSGD is a bunch of bitch work that will make you feel successful.

However, if you actually want to learn what it takes to make a good video game, and you want to learn useful programming skills from teachers… BSGD is a horrible degree. It's the worst.

22481b No.786

>>785
>if you don't mind dropping out and learning CS along the way.
The diploma doesn't count for shit anyhow.

>doesn't this sound like what a BSGD should be?

No. BSGD is so that you can get your ideas on the screen efficiently and you can throw a bunch of stuff at the all and see what sticks, BAGD is specifically to have ideas that aren't shit from the conceptual stage(Because that's completely doable).

>It basically boils down to how much you're willing to drink The Rhino's Kool-Aid when it comes to game design. If you think he's the greatest person and that his ideas about game design are correct, then yes, BSGD is a bunch of bitch work that will make you feel successful.

The Rhino has explicitly said that he thinks BSGDs are worse designers and are glorified RTISes. If you're valuing his opinion, then go with whatever degree you want to jerk off to at the end of the day.

>if you want to learn what it takes to make a good video game

BAGD with a grain of salt

>and you want to learn useful programming skills from teachers

BSGDs take the same programming courses minus graphics, so this is just wrong to claim BSGDs don't get it.

8fd860 No.788

>>786
Look call me fucking crazy but I don't think you get to have "BSCS" in your degree program (99% of people forget it's actually called Bachelor of Science in Computer Science and Game Design) not not have it be largely about computer fucking science. This isn't some Ruby on Rails liberal arts bullshit, this is fucking computer goddamn science.

But yeah BSGD does suck donkey balls in reality, too.

acf1fd No.790

BAGD got shafted. I feel like the whole time it was sold to me it was all lies.

There is nothing desirable about the degree. After 3 years of it I had nothing to offer any company.

2151c6 No.791

>>785
>>788

BSGD literally take the same programming classes as RTIS for the first two years, and many take additional programming classes.

It's basically like taking RTIS and BAGD degrees at the same time.

22481b No.792

>>788
What class makes BSCSGD definitively NOT a CS degree to you? They have to take CS120, 170, 180, 225, 230, *and* 280 just like RTISes. Is it not taking graphics that makes it not a real CS degree? Or Networking? Or do you just want to hold RTIS over BSGD for some reason?

669246 No.793

File: 1425262281439.jpg (64.34 KB, 490x540, 49:54, f this s.jpg)

>>791
>>792
After semester four, you're no longer a CS student, basically. You take the GAM classes that the BAGDs take and you submit playtest reports instead of code reports. The actual classes you took were legit CS classes, but now you're seen by the school as a Designer.

I spoke with a fellow sophomore BSGD about this sort of thing and at one point, he said what I said above, almost verbatim: "I don't actually like programming, I just like doing programming as a step towards getting my ideas into the game."

And guess what? He's not a great programmer, and our game code is littered with "just making it work" instead of the finesse that makes the game go from mediocre student game to amazing game. I'm not going to go into specifics such as to not be identifiable.

The BSGD program can go a couple of ways.

One way is like this guy I'm talking about, and others like him. You feel good because Holcomb tells you you're a good game designer and cool guy because you got good grades on most or all of your GAT210/211 projects. You then think "yeah I'm a good game designer, plus I learned what I had to in those CS classes, so hell yeah, I'll be a great gameplay programmer."

This is not necessarily the case. Learning traditional game design will help your video game design, but these past two semesters have proven that GAT classes alone are not enough to teach GD students how to make a fun video game. But these designers can't see that, they think "I'm a great game designer and programmer," despite being neither.

Another way the BSGD program can go is like how it did for me. You're an above-average programmer coming into DigiPen, who thinks about video game design all the time, has made dozens half-finished games on his own in the past, but you're bad at math unless it directly applies something tangible, like video games. You start off the first couple of semesters and go "okay, this programming teaching is awesome, I never knew C/C++ this deep before, but man, these game design classes are kind of lame because it's all about broad concepts like 'the intensity curve' and shit, and the rest is all about board games. Oh well, this must just be because it's my first year, surely I'll learn more about video game design next year."

Then the second year comes and nope, still nothing about video game design that you haven't heard a million times before from GAT classes and The Rhino. Yes, we get it, intensity curves, mechanics-dynamics-experiences, intensity curves, playtest reports, intensity curves, playtest reports, intensity curves, and… did I mention intensity curves? Also intensity curves.

Then you realize that, despite being both an engine architect and game designer on your team this past year, going forward, you're going to be basically a QA lead and gameplay scripter. You like scripting gameplay stuff, and fine-tuning user interactions to make them as fun as possible, but the idea of being judged by my fucking playtest reports sounds horrible. I would like to spend a week just fine-tuning the way my character runs, jumps and shoots, without having to do a playtest necessarily this week. Also I'm going to be treated the same as a BAGD, which means the same as absolute fucking garbage.

Combine all this with the fact that you realize that playing a lot of different types of games and just playing around with how their mechanics work, thinking about how and why they make the game awesome, is a far better way to learn how to make fun video games than anything we've fucking learned so far at this goddamn hellhole of a school, and you do what I do, and drop the fuck out at the end of semester four. I'm going to have a decent knowledge of data structures, because Mead is an amazing teacher, and I'll know C/C++ better than many CS graduates at other schools, because I had to make two high-performance game engines from scratch (including object allocators, templated component-based systems, and so forth).

I won't have a degree, but I'll do what I can to prove my technical skills to any programming job that will have me. Hopefully I'll get to use my design skills at that job, and maybe I'll even get a video game job! But at this point I can't care. As long as I'm out of this laughable farce called the Bachelor of Science in Computer Science and Game Design at DigiPen Institute of Technology, anything would make me happier and feel more fulfilled in my life.

Nothing is more fun to me than working on video games, but shit, compared to putting up with DigiPen's bullshit, even a menial job programming fucking databases or some shit would be a step up. I can always dick around with making a game engine on the side if I feel like it. Getting paid money to put up with a tiny fraction of the bullshit I put up with at DigiPen sounds amazing.

Fuck DigiPen.

ca4a74 No.799

BSGD is a basic computer science degree with all the game design stuff of a BAGD. So like a BAGD except hireable.

2151c6 No.800

File: 1425284916007.jpg (52.94 KB, 600x600, 1:1, 1416715635323.jpg)

>>793
Whoa there mate, if you're 4th semester and dropping out, how do you have any insight at all on semesters 5-8?

8fd860 No.801

>>800
What, do you have some incredible first-hand insight into the back half of the BSGD program? Because this is pretty much what I've been told.

22481b No.811

>>801
6th semester bsgd here. Can partially confirm. I'm basically an RTIS with limited design knowledge mainly because nobody acknowledges that maybe 21 credits per semester is retarded and I have enough sense of my own limits to not push myself to suicide.



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