/digipen/ - DigiPenitentiary

>>1000
This is the best 1000GET post /digipen/ could've asked for.

It's designers that just design that a lot of people hate. If you can't code or make decent art and you expect to sit around and "design" all day people will not like you.

Maybe if you have a megateam you can get away with it, but mostly no

>>1001
It's no helicopter shot of Claude's private island, but it'll do.

>>1000
The Design Degree attracts certain kinds of people. If you like Game Design enough to consider getting a degree in it, it's highly possible you are one of these kinds of people.

Mostly people hate the BAGDs (not the BSGD students, which is also a design degree) because they literally cannot perform work without a GOOD engine. Most struggle with the Zero Engine (Unity Engine for babbys). Expecting them to perform work on a half-built shoddy mess by RTIS students who have ONLY had 2 years is a disaster recipe which makes it look like all the BAGDs are worthless sack of shits incapable of doing any work. On a team without severe catering (which is bad, by the way) to the design students, the best BAGD is equal to the worst BAGD - literally worthless.

The truth of the matter is that there are good designers, and bad designers, and going THROUGH the BAGD program has just as much chance as spitting you out as a good designer as the RTIS, BSGD, and BFA programs do. Design isn't really something that is taught well, and you generally have to come into the school with your skills fully formed.

So the BAGD students just end up not being good teammates due to them not being able to code in engine? Do people hate them because they're forced to work with them or something?

>>1007
As a BSGD, my experience is that they can't reliably contribute, whereas a BSGD can at least take a cursory glance at the engine and try to solve their own problem before going to an RTIS for help.

You aren't forced to work with them, but there are several lectures in freshman year about how BAGDs aren't useless even though you haven't ever worked with them(due to them being isolated from the BSGDs and RTISes in GAM150)

>>1007
BAGD's are largely judged based on a handful of experiences and a lot of hearsay. They tend to be the most vocal and visible of the majors, which stands out from the introverts of the rest of the school. Being sociable at DigiPen is often seen as a sign of not working hard.

While a lot of BAGD's are poor programmers, many are at least decent. 3 semesters worth of CS classes are required, and it will soon be 4. I know more than a few that coasted these classes, and a handful that excelled.

BAGD or BSGD is probably the best solution if you're interested in going indie. It's possible to be a good designer as an RTIS, for sure, but the level of programming you will need is unnecessary, particularly with major engines going free. You aren't going to need to know how to program a graphics engine if you're using Unreal, because their graphics pipeline is way better than you will ever make. Unless you work for a major studio that will have the resources to make its own engine, the ability is worthless. However, if you ever want to have a shot working for a major company, you need to have that ability…BAGD's have a hard time getting their foot in the door.

Basically, BAGD's get shit on because a lot of the work they do is conceptual, rather than tangible. They can often be seen running around Edison or standing around talking. It's impossible to separate those that are talking about design from those that are talking about whatever anime without actually talking to them, so most RTIS's just shit on them, and the BSGD's pull the "at least we're not as worthless as BAGD's" tactic.

It's hard to give any recommendation to join the BAGD program, largely because of the way the school treats Designers. The school is still experimenting with the program, and the programmers will look down on you. Even if you manage to join a team, they will likely either put too much responsibility on you, or not give you enough control, or both, and the entire time you're only one mistake away from being kicked off the team.

It's ok for RTIS to make mistakes, it's part of the learning process. But if a BAGD does it, they are a terrible Designer.

>>1036
well it's not like BAGDs are hard to replace.

I definitely understand pointing out their lack of programming skills as a reason to sell them short before seeing what else they can offer, but it's a bit sad to hear that it sounds like even competent designers won't get much of a chance if all the programmers have that mentality :(

Nevertheless, this has certainly given me a lot to think about and I appreciate everyone's honest opinion on the subject!

>>1062
I would say the problem is generally this:

There are good designers and bad designers everywhere. There's something intuitive about that process that it seems teaching doesn't help much. Some people go through all the classes and are still just bad.

However, you have to ask: Why go BAGD instead of BSGD? Literally the same course load, minus programming classes. So why would you not want that valuable tool set?

The answer to that question is -usually- work ethic. Kids don't want to do anything hard. They want to think up cool stuff but not have to make it.

That poor work ethic comes across in all facets of their tenure at DigiPen though. That's why BSGDs, though more rare, are generally a safer bet. They know that you have to actually master development skills. That the theoretical means nothing without the practical.

There are obviously exceptions, but this is largely true.

>>1101
As a bsgd, I tend to agree. Most of my projects seem to lack that magic "spark" that professors dote on, but what I have learned is to document every step of my process and break away from the planning stage of a project. This lets me take the "scientific" approach of building up gameplay gradually, and refining what I have until it's ready to ship.

On the one hand, I doubt I'm going to make the next Minecraft, but on the other, I can consistently make games I'm satisfied with.

That said, I could not do the BAGD route. I choose BSGD because it does a bit of everything, allowing me to work with any team member in a given project. I found the cs classes the most valuable since it is by default the area in which a jack of all trades is needed (that and art), and not to have them seems like going to a game company and saying 'I have the best idea EVAR for our game!', which you can do (and I'm sure a couple of us have) when you're in junior high/high school already. Ideas are cheap, and I value what I've learned for the ability to make those ideas a reality.

>>1101
Except there are more 30 somethings in the BAGD program than the BSGD. It sounds like your problem is with the people that come into DigiPen as 18 year olds with no real world experience than the actual BAGD's themselves.

>>1103
Pretty much exactly how I feel.

>>1105
I don't know every BAGD obviously. That could very well be true, but it doesn't seem like it. I will say that BSGDs outnumber BSGDs in total, so that might be a reason.

I'll also say that -ratio wise- the number of BAGDs that are fresh out of highschool vastly outnumber the BSGDs that are fresh out of highschool. Heck, I only know of 1 BSGD that came here at 18. Maybe 2?

>>1110
Came here straight out of high school. You probably know me though. :P

>>1110
Again, it sounds like you're just generalizing. Most of the oldest students at DigiPen that I know are either BAGD's or BFA's.

>>1126
>says someone is generalizing.
>is generalizing himself.

Come on man.

BAGD are incredibly common. Of course some are old.

Doesn't change the fact that most are 18.

>>1159
Is there anywhere to view the enrollment statistics, or are both generalizations anecdotal? I'm doubting both sides of the story but don't know of any resources to confirm either one.

>>1159
What I said wasn't a generalization. I don't think you know what that word means. I didn't say "all BAGD's are older", I said that most of the older students THAT I KNOW are BAGD's or BFA's. In fact, the only students THAT I KNOW (the age of at least) who are over the age of 29 are either BFA's or BAGD's.

>>1183
http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=DigiPen&s=all&id=443410 has the information, but it's not tracked on a degree program basis. 77% of the school is "college aged"…under the age of 25. According to my friend here, that means that 77% of the school is BAGD :-P

>>1202
Hmm.. tough to gauge, then. If you assume a homogenous spread, then you'd get the generalization that BAGDs are younger. That said, it's probably the sampling of people you hang with - I tend to spend more time with people my age or slightly older, but I've met people on the more extreme end here. Having met both, I can't say that I know for sure, but am inclined to think that a majority of BAGDs are "college aged."