/dota2/ - Dota 2

Best Techies item 6.84.

I'm glad someone made this thread, because I've done a lot of testing of OC to see who it works best on.

"Luxury heroes" (yeah, go ahead and get it if you can)

>Timbersaw

>Zeus

>Lina

>Leshrac

>Skywrath Mage

>Invoker

>Lion

>Death Prophet

>Venomancer

Situational

>Outworld Devourer

>Pugna

>Bristleback

>Queen of Pain

>Necrophos

>Pudge

Also, don't listen to this memester >>2495, because OC lifesteal doesn't work for abilities with their own units, like Techies' mines and Witch Doctor's Death Ward. Yes, it'll still decrease the cooldowns of their abilities, but I don't think it's worth buying without the lifesteal.

>>2500

I forgot to put Ogre Magi in Luxury heroes and Huskar in situational heroes, but OC can be viable on them, too.

>>2500

>25% cooldown reduction and massive mana regen isn't worth it for lategame Techies

>>2508

Shit I tend to build before Octarine Core on Techies:

Mana Boots

Soul Ring

Eul's

Blink Dagger

Aghs

What you have is still a luxury item.

>>2509

Even at that point you have enough mana regen to keep your mana pool up. I would prefer going for a utility item like a Orchid or a Scythe or converting the soul ring and Arcanes to a BoT and Bloodstone.

>Blink dagger on Techies

kek

>>2510

Blink Dagger + Eul's on Techies is an incredibly gay combo. You instantly drop a stasis at someone's feet (1 second cast + 1.5 sec arming time) and once Eul's wears off (2.5 sec duration) it detonates and stuns them for 4 seconds. Then you drop land mine and remote mines and still have a suicide too.

Also I like to blink around battlefields and plant Stasis + Land Mine on escape routes. When my team needs to run they can run past a Stasis for safety and when their team needs to run I can have a Stasis waiting where they cross.

>>2508

By the time you have it you would have been better off with another utility item. Euls, force,sheep, orcid, scepter, travels is the ideal six slot techies. That hero, when built correctly, brings massive amount of utility to late game fights.

>>2500

Tried it on Leshrac. Incredibly underwhelming. I feel like Heart is a better pickup on Lesh than Octarine Core.

I would not recommend Octarine Core on Lina either unless she picked up a lot of utility items with cooldowns. If Lina wants survival and mana she's better off grabbing, say, Skadi. If she wants to exploit low CDs she is better off grabbing Refresher with Arcane Boots and Soul Ring and Aghs.

Venomancer is not a good hero for Octarine Core either. On the bright side he will heal like a beast with an Octarine Core. On the downside once he's blown his Venomous Gale and Ult, he's exhausted his utility for the fight so yes he will heal like crazy, but he will also be mostly irrelevant at this stage since he spent his 6K on self-healing instead of shit that gives him utility or carrying power. I'd sooner build him Orchid, Veil, Butterfly, or Skadi if I really want the survival. He does get to drop wards more frequently (basically letting him have 10 or 11 wards at once instead of 8) which is okay for turtling but not for tower pushing since getting that extra 1 ward for 39 damage at the end where he does maybe 2 hits isn't very exciting (the other wards come out sooner too, so maybe your wards did an extra 120 phys damage total over the course of a fight?). For 800 less gold you could've gotten a Necronomicon 3 which contributes 260 DPS against towers (against heroes there's also a lot of mana burn) before counting its own haste aura and also contributes 309 health and 312 mana. For 1900 less gold you could get yourself a Deso and deal a ton more damage to towers that way (you can also tap heroes with it in combat to ruin their armor for 15 sec). I guess as a luxury/survival item on a carry veno with aghs I could see Octarine Core but I have my doubts. Damn, now I'm tempted to try Veno with Aghs/Deso/Necro.

Bristleback on the other hand is pretty sick with an Octarine Core. Unlike most heroes, Bristle picks up a ton of momentum by spamming his abilities and the heal + health gives him great survival in fights while the mana ensures he can spam all that shit without any mana issues. I've tried Bristle with an Octarine Core and I'm comfortable saying that Bristleback can actually afford to core Octarine Core. I built it with a Vlad first.

I also tried building it on Night Stalker to take advantage of lowered cooldowns on duration-based abilities. I farmed it with Midas (yep, OC lowers Midas CD) and while it doesn't make your hero much stronger in a fight, it did have the benefit of driving the enemy team nuts since I was almost perma-nighting them with a 50 sec duration on a 60 sec CD instead of saving it for a good moment (only 675 vision on everything). Other benefits include getting the 4 second slow Void on a 6 sec cooldown and getting the 8 sec miss/silence Crippling Fear on a 9 sec cooldown which I have used to rape more powerful carries when I caught them with their BKB down. I also built an Abyssal Blade on my NS and you can really feel the Octarine Core lower your bash's CD. Ultimately, perhaps not the most powerful pickup and definitely not something to do if you're worried about making it to lategame, but it does have its perks.

>>2523

>Tried it on Leshrac. Incredibly underwhelming. I feel like Heart is a better pickup on Lesh than Octarine Core.

Personally my favorite core pickup on Lesh is Aghs. It gives hitpoints, mana, a smidge of armor, and an extra 60 AoE DPS which will murder the shit out of people.

>>2523

I probably should have listed Leshrac as a situational Octarine Core holder. As great as the item is on Lesh, there's very little that it can do alone. Combine it with a Bloodstone and Glimmer Cape, however, and Leshrac can have tremendous teamfight presence.

I'll defend Lina, though. With two AOE nukes, OC has pretty good potential on her, giving her the survivability she needs along with a 2.5 second AOE stun that is available every 5.25 seconds, making her an excellent hero for late game teamfights. A 37-second cooldown on Laguna Blade may not be short enough to make it something that can be used twice in a teamfight, but it could make a buyback MUCH more worthwhile.

From my list, Venomancer and Invoker are the only ones I haven't actually tested, but I imagined Venomancer's use for Octarine as similar to Lina's. As a hero who wants to start every teamfight in the middle of the enemy team, being left standing after a rough teamfight is valuable enough. With Venomancer's defensive capabilities and huge dependence on his ult, Octarine Core not only makes him damn near unkillable, but a timebomb if he isn't picked off even AFTER a teamfight. OC makes it possible for him to jump into danger and scurry away safely, providing no time for the enemy team to make any sort of progress together… [/spoiler]unless they buy BKB, but that means that Veno is fucked with or without Octarine. [/spoiler] It might be sketchy, but the potential for it looks really good on paper. Maybe it's just because I come from a skill bracket where players say "Look, it's that annoying support! Focus him down instead of the carry!"

>>2527

Glimmer Cape on Lesh? I guess Pulse Nova finally works while invis now? I'll have to remember that. However, I think his teamfight presence becomes more tremendous with items like Aghs, Veil, Blademail, Lotus Orb, Skadi. Bloodstone does have the benefit of making killing Lesh a frightening proposition given the team heal, but I prefer killing them faster for the most part.

Lina does heal decently with it but I don't see it contributing much utility. If I'm worried about Lina's survival, I'd sooner grab Heaven's Halberd + Blademail for that kind of money (only 100 gold more) since that will also contribute a lot of utility and attack damage (+57 factoring int) along with being much easier to build.

I don't see how Veno becomes a timebomb with Octarine Core to be honest. He still does the same damage. I'd sooner grab a Veil so that he does way the fuck more damage to everything. Also veno can kill people through their BKB. Both his W and his ult continue doing damage through immunity and cannot be purged so if you just hit your W after your ult (even with a ward) it will still kill them.

I've been experimenting with this on luna.

Some how glave bounces proc for the life steal so you can get it as a luxury sometimes if you don't want to get satanic/helm.

Its still super situational though, but I think snowtoad was being careful not to introduce something that is broken on release.

2/3 patches from now it should hit a good balance spot.

I have seen it on Timbersaw after Scepter and Stone as situational for late. It became fucking insanely unkillable.

Also, on the FUCKING NECROPHOS WITH GREAVES. Tank Necro was hard to kill without that. Now it's just impossible.

>>2524

Ehh, I feel like veil gives you more tankiness and better overall dps, aghs stats aren't bad but they aren't great.

>>2500

After boots aghs force soul ring euls blah blah standard techies items, I get octarine core. Don't listen to this guy. You don't get it for lifesteal you get it for a remote mine every 7 seconds and all your other mines also reduced CD.

>>2968

"I know what I'm talking about, I win one out of every twelve games I play."

Lol. Kid. Just shut down your computer.

>>2969

Whut?

>>2978

>Octarine Core on Doom

This is brilliant, this is gee-nee-yus. Why didn't I think of this. More Dooming, Refresher and Midas on a shorter CD, absolutely great.If I could get the gold for this, Devour and Midas both would help me to farm almost as fast as Alchemist. This is great. I gotta try this soon, thank you.

>>2978

abaddon will never farm it and wants other items a lot more

bane will never farm it and wants other items a lot more

cm will never farm it and wants other items a lot more

dazzle will never farm it and wants other items a lot more

doom: refresher's so much better on doom and the two combined don't actually give you much utility. doom doesn't do that much damage (its slow and over time) and you'd really rather be slotted with BoT/shiva/blink/aghs/refresher/bkb. i won't disagree that dooms the one hero in the game on whom EVERY ITEM is viable, but i don't think octarine is particularly good

earth spirit's effectiveness wanes through the later stages of the game, where combo+ult won't instant kill every enemy hero without even needing to refresh the ult. Octarine also doesn't lower the cooldown on remnant charges, which is honestly the biggest limitation in playing earth spirit.

earthshaker YET AGAIN wants other items a lot more. mobility is king, veil does a lot, refresher's still better. shaker's a hero that, once he jumps, ults, and does his thing, is pretty happy to just die most of the time. he's done his job, he doesn't need to stick around, and he typically doesn't jump at low health, but at the start of the fight, so spell lifesteal does nothing.

enigma could use it, but again, bkb+refresher is so much better than an octarine that I don't know why you'd bother.

jakiro's ult can do a lot of damage. if the enemy are braindead and stand in the middle of it for a long period. this will never happen.

lich, like so many other heroes, will never farm it, and would so much rather have an aghs, or a scythe, or any other item. 60s is such a short cd that it really wouldn't matter to have it be 45 instead. you'll be able to use it in the next fight anyway.

magnus is another instance where, will the 25 seconds really make the difference? the skewer cd change is also insignificant. another hero that you'd much rather just have a refresher on.

naga as a carry is all about split pushing. naga as a support would once again, never farm it, and i'd rather see her buy the new aghs, or even just save for the radiance if at all possible. it's true that the mirror image uptime does a lot, and when you're trying to push out every lane and creep skip until your brain stops working, it works out. combined with sometimes buying mana boots on naga for mana regen and how fast she can farm, its not the worst item purchase, but i struggle with seeing its utility over a manta, which also allows you higher illusion uptime, although they're worse illusions that don't last as long, and also gets you out of those pesky silences that are really the only thing that can kill you

NP wants to split push. 15 sec cd on tp is pretty good. 28 cd on treants, not bad. perma-sprout, hilarious. better than other items? no. doesn't help him contribute to fights, doesn't help keep him alive in fights. doesn't really help him push faster or harder. buy a necro and a maelstrom for the same price, farm faster, accomplish more.

omni would YET AGAIN rather just have a refresher. and an aghs to go with it, really.

phoenix already resets cds with ult. you don't really need the shortened cds, it doesn't help keep you alive, that's what armor, and a level advantage do. that's why people buy midas on that hero. because level 16 is so much more important than basically anything else.

puck's already a good hero, and is another hero where i'd rather just see other items. I'd rather be slotted with blink/euls/aghs/scythe/bots/linkens. puck's nukes aren't that high, so having spell lifesteal doesn't do much, and coil's already a short cd, as are the other nukes.

rubick doesn't do nearly enough damage, and the abilities that you're likely to steal are so unreliable that it's so much better to just buy other items. mobility and a scepter would do you so much more.

shaman's another hero where you'd just rather see other items. scepter/refresher on shaman is so incredibly good, and the spell lifesteal wouldn't do anything because the wards are separate units. Lowering such low, single-target-disable cds just doesn't do much. blink+scepter+refresher just makes that hero rape your buildings far more than an octarine ever could.

silencer doesn't benefit from this nearly at all. lifesteal on the orb is the only rationale i can possibly come up with but its yet another instance of "buy a fucking scythe or a refresher you mongol"

treant, just like literally every other hero, would rather see other items. you need the aghs for eyes in the forest to begin with. a blink is just too good. and refresher combined with those two means that you can stop their carry attacking, forcing out a bkb, and then continue to stop them from attacking for another 4 seconds unless they have a manta or some other way of dispelling your ult.

undying isn't a terrible idea. the lowered decay and soul rip cooldowns are nice, as you already want to spam those in fights, but again, what does shaving 15 seconds off the cooldown of tomb really accomplish? it's already good enough to win you a fight nearly on its own, how are you meant to even find another fight in those 15 seconds? I'll admit that tomb being down is really the biggest thing that can lose you a fight as undying (also: dying before you get it off, or even just "enemy heroes focusing tomb" and if you really want to have a laugh, buy a refresher and go for the double tomb instead. the biggest issue is however, that it doesn't really help to sustain you as undying. it gives hp, but it doesn't give armor, which is your biggest weakness as a strength hero that literally gains free hp from using decay. so in the end it feels redundant. good as a later item, but good luck farming it.

warlock: good after midas/scepter/refresher but not before. alleviates the frustratingly long cooldown on rock, which is the hero's biggest real weakness. I don't really think the fatal bonds healing would be all that significant, and it doesn't really matter to stay alive once you've gotten off your ult-refresher-ult combo unless you really want to give the enemy the finger with upheavals.

fucking

ripper

jew

>>2992

I did say that it was situational on all of them, and usually best as a sixth/seventh slot in supports in a 90-minute game, or memey snowball items when you're balling over the enemies.

Your biggest argument is "they can't farm it", but that's what it means for it to be a situational item. Nothing is free in Dota; everything in the game costs a combination of time, effort, and resources. I'm not saying to rush Octarine on every hero. Hell, I'll be the first to say that a lot of my ideas were cheesy, but it's all just food for thought.

>>2993

damage control dot jay pee gee

>>2993

octarine is 5900 gold.

That's 600 more than refresher.

225 more than hex.

25 more than butterfly.

380 more than a daedalus.

400 more than a heart.

700 more than a necro 3

the only items that cost more are an upgraded dagon 4/5 (6470/7720), abyssal (6750), rapier (6200), satanic (5950)

its super fucking expensive and gives very little benefit to most heroes in the game. it gives +hp and +mana and some regen but no armor and only +int. there's only so much that cooldown reduction can do to a 60 second cooldown, and most heroes don't do enough ability damage to justify getting it for the lifesteal.

>>2995

Situational. Food for thought.

>>2996

but its not even situationally good on half the heroes you listed

shorter cooldowns is good on a lot of heroes. but spending 5900 gold to do it and accomplish nothing else isn't worthwhile.

>>3000

makes me wonder what our next quads will look like.

as for actual contribution to the thread, I think Carl is the best octarine holder, and that's over the angry Australian spike pig.

>>3005

Carl easily gets the most out of Ocartine. Other heroes get their cooldowns of 3-4 abilities reduced, while he gets 11 cooldown reductions, more survivability, and a larger mana poolto use more spells. Not to mention that he deals AOE magical damage from almost everything he has. Octarine can even be a replacement for Agh's.

>>3000

>>3001

>>3005

I won't outright remove these for now but don't put this shit in actual discussion threads. You have been warned.

>>2510

>builds bloodstone on techies

>tries to give advice

lmao

>>2494

It's very satysfying on Sand King and pretty damn overpowered on Silencer, since it works with his orb.

>>2978

> "Best for support Naga. "

Are you fucking drunk man? Naga carry with constant illusions is fucking op. I go octarine after radiance BoT and yasha EVERY single game, I've yet to lose one.

>>3064

>I win whenever the enemy team gives me 40 minutes of free farm as a hard carry

>>3066

Except I usually have these items by 30 min, even when contested. but sure m8, whatever helps you sleep at night.

>>3078

Dildo?

>>3078

>even when contested

Naga Siren youtoob tutorial pls

>>3079

What do you mean Dildo?

>>3082

If it didn't take a million years to upload, sure.

>>3140

He was asking if you were Dildo Baggins, a fag who posts here.

>>3141

Oh. How is that relevant?

This is going a bit off topic, but yeah. Octarine core is better on carry Naga, in my experience at least.

>>3142

No aghs?

>>3143

>Carry Naga

>Getting healing upgrade for ultimate

But really, sure, octarine core with aghs on naga is probably fine. But by the time you get those items as a support, you've already lost, or you're winning really hard.

BLADE MAIL

Holy shit Blade Mail rocks like a fucking beast with OCore.

FROM: 4.5 sec 100% reflect on 15 CD (so 10.5 sec no BM)

TO: 4.5 sec 100% reflect, 25% damage reduction, 11.25 CD (so 6.75 sec no BM).

Similarly Lotus Orb also gives you 25% damage reduction against single target and 12,75 CD with 6 sec duration.

>>3326

How many heroes would you actually rin that on, though?

>>3329

Well with Blade Mail, Octarine Core becomes a considerably more powerful/viable pickup on a number of heroes, so I could see Zeus for instance going BM+OCore.

Bristleback is not a bad for it either.

>>3334

The day Zeus goes blademail is the day Zeus gets an arcana

>>3334

What, are you the kind of player who believes blade mail is only for "tank" heroes? Or one of those types who only has one build for a hero and never varies it depending on the game?

There are times when BM is a strong pickup on Zeus.

>>3344

Wtf?

Dude, are you one of those idiots whose builds assume a perfect match where the enemy lets you have everything your way? Just because you want to be safe in the back and away from the fighting doesn't mean the enemy will always be nice enough to let you.

Hey, sometimes they decide to prioritize the little fucker who does a ton of damage to the enemy team every moment he's alive. Sometimes the enemy has fuckers with (pseudo)blinks/daggers who would rather rush you for a quick kill. Maybe Venge would like to swap you for a quick death. Maybe there's a Magnus just being Magnus. Maybe it's just Dark Seer doing his Vacuum. Maybe it's just someone who recognizes that pushing you 600 feet with a force staff is enough to put you in a really bad position.

And if you're really unlucky you just have shitty teammates who all stand back or try to crowd your ass. There are a lot of ways to be unable to have that proper position whether you'd like it or not, so saying "oh just stay in the back damage is not a problem for Zeus" can be some serious wishful thinking at times.

So yeah, depending on the game, you can find yourself building vastly different items to deal with the circumstances.

>>3347

Or maybe you have an actual carry in front of you that they're more worried about, which is the majority of games.

If we're talking about how the enemy team is going to counter you, why wouldn't their main damage-dealing carry build a bkb so as to not get nuked by you?

Everything that could possibly happen in dota is wishful think. You pick void in the hopes that you don't get countered by bane or mirana. You pick bloodseeker in the hopes that you'll have some to stun your ruptured target in case they try to tp out. You pick meepo in the hopes that your team knows how to push towers before late game. You pick kaolin in the hopes that the space you create will provide farm for real carries.

Pretty much every hero operates on a "what if" scenario. Your argument is shit.

>>3349

And maybe that carry is tankier than you so they'd rather kill you first. And maybe it's just dumb fucking AoEs and crap hitting you in the crossfire so a blademail means you can do another 1000+ damage in teamfights just by having it on.

>>3350

It's not a perfect solution, but there are certainly times when that blademail means the difference between winning and losing teamfights.

>>3355

I get the sickening impression that you've been playing Dota longer than I have, and it scares me to think that I'll potentially play with you after I get out of trench.

>>3355

2200 - Blade Mail

2250 - Force Staff

2250 - Blink Dagger

1950 - Glimmer Cape

1500 - Ghost Scepter

2850 - Eul's Scepter of Divinity

2125 - Hood of Defiance

2520 - Veil of Discord

3000 - Solar Crest

1100 - Vitality Booster

1400 - Platemail

2100 - Ultimate Orb

Alright I'm not sure if you're just trolling or you're being serious now.

The only thing a Blade Mail is good for is probably against a Lina/Lina and that's assuming they are retarded enough to ult you while you have it on but there are plenty of options that are better for Zeus to make him more survivable for around the same cost. A few items I listed I probably wouldn't actually suggest but I can see them being better than a blade mail in pretty much every scenario.

If it's positioning that's an issue then go Blink and Force Staff so it'll help you join the fights after they started or it allows you to escape if they try to go on you.

If they have a lot of physical damage you should probably invest in a ghost scepter then Platemail into a Shiva's Guard, but you shouldn't buy a BM just for the armor since a lot of items give you more along with fitting Zeus's play style such as Veil of Discord.

They have a lot of Magic Damage? Well good thing Glimmer Cape is overpowered as fuck but if you don't want to invest that much into it then getting a casual cloak is nice then probably pick up a BKB down the line.

Is it Pure Damage that is giving you issues? Well the only thing I can suggest is getting a Linken's Sphere if it's Lina that is giving you issues and hope she pops it on you but other than that you are shit out of luck.

>>3363

The answer to pure damage is more health, and even for that, Zeus has plenty of options. Agh's has good stats that are unappreciated, but you could also build Drums, BKB, Ethereal Blade, Octarine Core, or even Scythe of Vyse, all of which have strength or health bonuses without being terrible picks. Even Necronomicon is an option if the game calls for it.

>>3368

>It seems Na'Vi is building nothing but blademails

>Why are they stacking them?

>LINA GETS BLOWN UP BY TEAM BLADEMAIL

>NAH-VEE HAS EARNED THE TITLE OF THE TI5 CHAMPIONS

>>3363

Good items, to be sure. And I wouldn't necessarily rush a naked BM either but I do tend to incorporate it here and there. Blade Mail will also kill a jakiro or invoker if he's doing meteor, fuck with Timber ulti, and eat all sorts of AoEs to reflect damage at the dealer etc.

Thing about blademail is that not only does it help you survive but it also packs a solid punch against enemies. Lets not forget that the best defense is a good offense and BM can deliver on a potent "holy shit where did my hitpoints go."

>>2992

>omni would YET AGAIN rather just have a refresher. and an aghs to go with it, really.

I could make a case for Omni situationally going OC over aghs. Global on his ult CAN be amazing, but it's under situational items in my build because of two reasons:

1) Most of the popular heroes this patch rely a lot on spell damage, repelling wisely is your bread and butter these days, your ult is less valuable.

2) Guardian angel is only useful globally in/against some lineups. An LC on either team? Do it. They have a slark or someone who will pick off lonely heroes? Might be worth it. You've got a splitpusher like NP or PL you'll need to protect early on? Think about it if they're getting jumped. None of those? Skip it and build something else.

I've found that even at low MMR, people know that staying near an omniknight = heals, so you don't have to convince people hard to stick in a group. Building greaves and a force staff to escape will give you plenty, and from there a mystic staff can go into shivas or scythe (both things I pick up often when I skip aghs).

I could see an octarine working instead of either of those, but I think personally I'd prefer the scythe to octarine in most matches. By the time I've farmed octarine, I guarantee someone on their team has evasion I'd want the hex to counter.

>>3588

aghs is not really core and certainly isn't an every game item

its more important to have mobility and some regen, soul ring is good, euls is really helpful against silences. i'd recommend greaves but thats a lot of money.

>>3595

Seconding greaves, it's an amazing omni item. You don't need to finish it, arcanes/mek is great enough, but when you're struggling for an inventory slot with TP/wards, it can be a nice pickup if you can find some time to farm (flash farm with purify, protips for lyfe).

As I said in original comment, after greaves I'd generally go for a shiva's or scythe depending on the game, aghs if I see a use for it. Saying aghs is core every game on him says you don't know how to play omni well enough (or worse, how to read a hero's non-ultimate abilities).

>>3587

A) No, BM is good as long as it lets you kill your opponent faster than he can kill you. Since Zeus does good damage, a BM can tip it over, whether by buying you 4 more seconds or by buying you an extra 400+ damage.

B) The item was recommended alongside Octarine Core. OCore packs hitpoints, lowers the BM's CD, and heals you for 25% of what you reflect, effectively giving you 25% damage reduction whenever blademail is active. (It also gives Zeus lower CDs and heals on all his spammable bullshit.)

>>3588

This only works until you're up against some fuckers with Diffusal/Eul's/SD (Aghs)/Brewmaster Storm AoE dispel/Naga Siren ult (oh look you're all mez'd until Guardian Angel is gone)/Doom eating mini satyr for that dispel/etc.

>>3602

But Blademail is so much better on other heroes, even in combination with Octarine. Timbersaw, Necrophos, even Kunkka or Centaur if you want to be memey, but not Zeus.

You also forgot Invoker's Tornado, which might be the greatest GA counter in the game.

>>3602

You're missing the point. You can't think of Zeus as a hero that can afford to taking the most of the damage by staying on the front of the fight and so putting a blademail to work. The moment you're in that position you already lost because that means you've been caught off position.

Instead of dealing slightly more magic damage in return (remember that you're Zeus so enemies will tend to build Bkbs) you should think about building items that put you back in the right position like Force Staff.

But hey, FATA.Meme9 just built a Blademail on Lina and despite losing awfully bad the item must be legit on Int heroes!

>>3604

Ogre is an INT hero

>>3604

>Instead of dealing slightly more magic damage

Actually, damage from Blademail is pure, but everything else is right.

>>3607

With the third most strength growth of the game. He's also melee and that's why he tends to stay ahead on fights, so yeah, Blademail is legit on him. It can also be legit on Necro for instance, like any hero that legitimately builds for hp. If you build hp only early enough to have a relevant Blademail too you're going to be completely useless.

>>3608

Yeah but my point is it still doesn't go through magic immunity

>>3598

A point about greaves I didn't learn until recently that makes them even better on omni: Greaves remove negative statuses from yourself when cast. Repel doesn't end most status effects after they're cast (I believe there are some exceptions). Having the ability to dispel yourself can be very useful.

>>3613

repel is a dispel. it will dispel positive buffs from enemies and negative buffs from teammates.

however it is NOT a STRONG dispel, like abaddon shield or lc press the attack. it will dispel debuffs but not stuns, mostly.

greaves are nice on omni but euls does the same thing, and lets you cancel tps, and gives you ms and mana regen

>>3674

Actually I think repel removes positive buffs from allies, such as runes.

>>3683

it was changed to not purge allies positive buffs, i believe, as it no longer removes GA. other forms of magic immunity were changed to also not remove buffs (rage, bladefury) i believe, but as i believe they do still remove runes, runes might be a special case.

>>3684

just tested it, haste rune will get purged if you use it on an ally, but other positive buffs are not (tested with warcry and brood ult, it purges both of those from enemy heroes) it will also purge haste from an enemy. other sources of magic immunity also remove runes, but only dd and haste really mater since they're the only ones that are buffs. regen does not get removed by immunity.

>>3612

pretty much this. the cost is not good for the trade off. In a team fight, the core is pretty much useless where 5 seconds will obliterate anyone. If it is a gank, sure. With a 5.9k cost though, team fights are more likely to happen than not.

>>2501

I think Ogre Magi is the only one who would enjoy the core if it has enough gold.

I actually tried Octarine on Clockwerk in a super long game where I had to carry. It turned out better than I had expected, given that I had Blade mail and Aghs. A 12-second cooldown on Hookshot is just too long to be used twice per teamfight, but a 9-second cooldown makes a world of difference. The bonus uptime for cogs is great as well. Clockwerk doesn't need a whole lot of gold or items, so if he's stuck in a game that goes super late, OC becomes a pretty good option.

Bristleback

-Kind of a quirky build but fun, wouldn't call it meta or core in any way

Death Prophet

-More Q spam, doesn't really get much from Refresher, HP is always nice, Lifesteal on ult is great

Leshrac

-Obv item pick up is obv

Naga Siren

-100% illusion uptime

Night Stalker

-Octarine+Aghs on NS = enemy has no vision, ever, at all

Outworld Devourer

-Lifesteal + lots of Mana, combos well w/ Refresher + Aghs

Queen of Pain

-Better for her than Refresher

Techies

-Obvious late game luxury, mo mines, mo allahu akbars

Venomancer

-Ass ton more wards

Zeus

-Spam more Q/W and faster Ults, probably still go Refresher first tho.

>>3811

Oct is great on Bristle, but is an ultra late game item on him. Going Octa first only gives you raw HP and Mana that other, cheaper items can do a better job of early. Late game, though, after you have a larger mana pool and tankiness, you can use Quill Spray to make yourself unkillable. I would get it item 5 or 6.

>>3817

I'd agree with that. It's just you have to be in a 5v5 matchup that'll have drawn out teamfights. If it's all ogre in 15 seconds, Octarine doesn't pay out.

I generally would prefer getting an Abyssal or Hex to an Octarine on BB. But in the right spots it's a p solid item. It's just Quill Spray only does so much damage, even in the best situations.

I recently bought Oct on Techies. Too many fairweather techies players buy this as like their third item when it give them nothing at all before 50 minutes. You don't need 8 sec mine CD until you are really playing late game base defense. Oct is a good 5th or 6th item, but sheep, euls, aghs, force, travels are much more important before Oct.

>>3817

Octarine Core is an item that by itself makes you extremely tanky and solves all your mana issues. The 25% cooldown reduction also should not be overlooked, since Bristle being what he is, he snowballs very aggressively by spamming his abilities.

>>3588

>Aghs guarantees that you can get every unit GA'd in a team fight, even you initiator.

Sure, but so does Blink Dagger.

>>2542

thats because the bounces are a spell