/dota2/ - Dota 2

I agree with you, but I don't think it'll happen.

On a side note, I'm sure that TI1-3 winners are all secretly pissed that other teams are making 5-10x as much for winning later TIs. It was a huge deal when Na'Vi won $1 million, now Secret/VG/EG will get $1-2 million per player when they win.

>>3018

Yeah I mean people were making this exact argument last year and Valve decided first placed needed 1mil each.

However with the new majors they may have a change of heart? If you want stable tournaments you need stable teams, and you can't expect 16-8th place teams to stay stable if they can't afford it.

i don't necessarily think its a bad idea, but i don't think its that good an idea either.

to play devils advocate: people will "say" they're playing for the prestige of winning a ti but outside of envy (he's the only one that autistic) I don't actually believe anybody when they say that. they're playing for the money.

if every team gets a (roughly equivalent) big piece of the pie, what's the incentive for any team to perform?

last year newbee got $5,028,121 (46%) of the pool ($10,930,698).

if TI were to start today, the prize pool would be $13,243,203 and 1st place would get $6,091,873

if NOTHING ELSE, 1st prize winners are gonna expect at least as much as last years winners. if the prize pool reaches 15Mil (probably), and we want to give at least 6M to 1st place, then we can safely lower the % 1st prize gets to 40%, freeing up 6 whole percent to give to other participants

so where do we throw that money? we could give it to the 2-4th teams, but their prizes are already pretty big. is it worth it to give it to the sub-5th place teams? are they really deserving?

spoiler alert: probably not. they didn't win. this isn't your 6th grade soccer league where everybody gets a trophy just for participating.

the international isn't about crowdfunding esports teams so they can go on being teams. it's about the best teams in the world playing the best dota in the world. if they disband as a result, who cares? clearly they weren't in it for the dota. players that want to will find other teams, players that don't will move on.

my only caveat here is teams that don't have any kind of organization/sponsorship backing them won't be able to practice the way teams that DO have money in their pockets do. It's a double edged sword (rumors that organizations like na'vi shoehorn players into less-than-desirable contracts and take obscene portions of prizemoney) and i want to see the scene grow, but not at the cost of depriving deserving teams their well-earned winnings.

>>3029

>to play devils advocate: people will "say" they're playing for the prestige of winning a ti but outside of envy (he's the only one that autistic) I don't actually believe anybody when they say that. they're playing for the money.

You say that. But there are a lot of players at the top level who have been playing before tournaments even had prizepools so I do think many players genuinely play the game for the love of it, and that TI really is about the prestige.

>if every team gets a (roughly equivalent) big piece of the pie, what's the incentive for any team to perform?

The incentive to perform comes from wanting to get back to TI to get another piece of that pie.

>so where do we throw that money? we could give it to the 2-4th teams, but their prizes are already pretty big. is it worth it to give it to the sub-5th place teams? are they really deserving?

spoiler alert: probably not. they didn't win. this isn't your 6th grade soccer league where everybody gets a trophy just for participating.

I say they are. How many Dota 2 teams are out there? Those going to TI are the top 16. That's no small feat.

>my only caveat here is teams that don't have any kind of organization/sponsorship backing them won't be able to practice the way teams that DO have money in their pockets do. It's a double edged sword (rumors that organizations like na'vi shoehorn players into less-than-desirable contracts and take obscene portions of prizemoney) and i want to see the scene grow, but not at the cost of depriving deserving teams their well-earned winnings.

Getting $500,000-$1,000,000 instead of $1,500,000 is not going to ruin the winning teams lives. That is still a fuckton of money that could last you the rest of your life if you were smart about it. And if it means that some teams can afford to practice fulltime without distraction or financial stress that can only improve the skill of the scene as a whole.

And the scene needs good teams to live. It gets boring when there's only 3 teams (Secret/VG/EG) that are dominating all the time.

>>3030

Fuck still learning how to h8chan.

>spoiler alert: probably not. they didn't win. this isn't your 6th grade soccer league where everybody gets a trophy just for participating.

Was meant to be greentext as well.

>>3030

top 16 teams. sure. but the difference between those teams has been shown to sometimes be VAST.

Consider TI3. MUFC were INVITED. over LGD.cn. they went on to lose every game they played at the international. went 0/14 in their group, and were promptly eliminated by liquid in the first round of the lower bracket.

Alliance, on the other hand, lost 0 games through their group, and went through the winners bracket losing ONE GAME to DK (then burning, super, rotk, qqq, and mmy), before losing two more games to na'vi in the grand finals.

I have never liked alliance, but they had everybody beat in the ti3 era. nobody could compete.

in my browsing however i discovered that ti3's prize pool distribution was even more lopsided: nobody past 8th place won any money at all, alliance brought home 50% of the winnings. same for ti2 and ti1. ti1/2 both had the same distribution and same prize pool.

>And the scene needs good teams to live. It gets boring when there's only 3 teams (Secret/VG/EG) that are dominating all the time.

though they're not on the same scale (in terms of play or prizepool) watch some smaller tournaments. if you're in NA i KNOW there's a shitload of smaller tournaments being played all the time. canada cup comes to mind. slavladder 11 earlier this year had none of those teams. look into the semipro cup series. teams doing well there is a good way for them to determine if they 'could ever possibly make it' and the answer, more often than not, is an overwhelming no.

as far as i'm concerned, having some teams dominate the tournaments they attend isn't necessarily a bad thing. for one, they play a lot of matches and so there's more content available to be studied. There's a reason those teams win all the time (secret's measured greed, EG's ppd drafts, VG's calculated early aggression) and it's a thing to be admired and studied, not something to get upset about.

in short, I think that those teams are further up the mountaintop of dota perfection than the rest of the teams and should be awarded accordingly. I don't want mufc to get free money for showing up and losing every game they played.

>>3032

Pretty much this. There tends to be a huge gap in team performance in competitions and for no real reason, either. Secret doesn't have an advantage over Power Rangers, but they're not even close to being on the same skill level. They have the same number of players, the same knowledge of the game, and an equal opportunity to win, but the two teams are hardly even comparable. The only difference between them is pure skill.

Every team in TI5 has an equal opportunity to win, although we can sit here and rule out 10 of 16 candidates who couldn't possibly win. I don't say that to try to brag about the aforementioned stomping teams, but it kinda upsets me. Why CAN'T PR be as good as Secret? Why CAN'T YeS be as good as VG? As we've been sing in qualifiers so far, most matches aren't even close, they're more one-sided than ever before.

Tl;dr Being miles ahead of the competition deserves a reward miles ahead of the competition.

>>3016

>no one needs that much money

>>>/reddit/

>>>/leftypol/