/fallout/ - Fallout

>caesar's legion

>good

>>704

The NCR is a bunch of hyper incompetent fucks.

The Legion is using undesirables as a military force to make life bretty good for the actual citizens of Caesar's lands.

>>720

The Legion was like a Islamic state.

The NCR was right-wing.

>NCR is the left, goody two shoes mary sues who never did anything wrong.

Which game were you playing?

>House which is basically a left fascism regime (and if you kill him you get a pipboy message to make you feel guilty for it).

You missed the point the message. It was supposed to show his ego.

>>704

Caesar is an ex Follower turned edgy power-mad wannabe military genius

NCR is getting way too much shit then they deserve

>>728

If anything, the Followers of the Apocalypse were the lefties.

>>720

what is "right wing" about a war lord raider who enslaves post-nuclear tribes and gets inspiration from ancient rome?

and plenty of things about the NCR are shown to be fucked up/not the best. The corruption in the rangers, fucked up logistics, shit morale, hell the NCR killed women and children at Bttersprings.

as for companions it makes sense when many of there characters would have real grievances.

ill break down each of the companions reasoning's for you.

Boone is former NCR military and killed his wife and child to save them from Legion slaverly.

Cass is a NCR citizen and women who doesn't want to be a slave and get fucked by every legionnaire that wants to.

Veronica has similar issues cause women and I cant remember how the Legion treats the Brotherhood but I assume they dont get along easily.

Arcade hates the legion cause they are basically the anti-followers and Caesar is ex-follower.

Lily doesn't care cause shes a crazy super mutant gma.

Raul has actually spent time in Legion controlled areas + not having any pre-excisting reasons for hating the legion he sees them as firm but fair and an ok option.

its not really lazy writing for each character but i dont think a 50/50 split of companions for either side would have been better.

>>737

*but I do think

SAFE

CARAVANS.

>muh edgy imperialist slavemasters

>>720

This level of political illiteracy can only come from /pol/

There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to begin

>>815

But he's right, at least generally. Perhaps wrong exactly, as the game does show good sides to the legion and gives them some leftist qualities if you look hard enough, and the NCR does have some bad qualities if you look hard enough, but overall the game presents them as the "mostly good" democracy and the "mostly bad" dictatorship, with the Legion being essentially the right-wing bogeyman taken to extremes and the NCR being just a good liberal democracy with some problems.

>>737

While in actuality the two sides have a bit more depth, throughout most of the game the Legion is portrayed as anti-democracy, anti-individualism, patriarchal, and anti-science/technology, all of which are the main traits of the right-wing bogeyman. Yes, there are lines in the game that contradict or add depth to those traits, but they are far from the majority and many are so far removed from the main plot that most players won't ever see them. Hell, even within the legion's quests you don't really get too much to add depth; while the legion quests do help show that the legion survives well as a society and that it's population (at least the male half) almost completely supports its goals, as well as humanizing caesar which was needed sorely, but this is drops of milk in a shit bucket for 99% of the playerbase, who will see the legion throughout the rest of the game depicted as little more than white cismale soldiers who oppress and rape women whenever they can and slaughter innocents because they were too liberal.

The NCR's bad points are typically either glossed over or only mentioned throughout quests, and aren't omnipresent in the NCR's depiction like the legion's faults are. The NCR has problems, that much is conveyed as it's mentioned fucking everywhere, but that means absolutely nothing when of the NPCs on either side the only "good" ones are for the NCR. Even some of the "bad" faces of the NCR are solid shades of grey, fuck look at Moore. Despite all their faults the NCR is still depicted in game as helping the wasteland (although the is partially because we don't really see Legion lands or anything that isn't their military, thanks obsidian), and this outweighs most of their faults. There's also the fact that they're base ideology is considered "good", while the Legion's obviously isn't: regardless of what some Bangladeshi wood-carving board considers normal, the vast majority of society is conditioned to think "democracy good, dictatorship bad", "liberalism good, anti-liberalism bad", "equality good, patriarchy bad", and "science/technology good, naturalism bad", which makes the two sides into an off-white and a damn-dark-grey in the minds of the average player, no matter what their effects on the wasteland actually are.

>>818

>that they're base ideology

Their, jesus it's too early for this.

>>720

>You ARE railroaded to either pick the left wingers or House which is basically a left fascism regime

Never heard of the wild card option you humongous simplistic faggot?

>>848

to be fair, you do have to not be hated by the NCR or you get locked out of completing a lot of quests in a way that doesn't involve killing everyone in the area.

I think what he's trying to say is not that you're forced to side with them, but that the game portrays them as the only two "good" options, as the only two options that do more good than bad, and he's not incorrect. If you side with the Legion or go WC the ending slides criticize you, and they portray NV's future to be much more bleak than under the NCR or House no matter how arguably illogical that might be.

The point is that, while technically you can choose whichever side you want, the game itself rewards the average player more for choosing some sides than others.

>>704

They're both shit.

Go Wildcard.

Or do what I did: Join Caesar's Legion, kill President Kimball, get to Et Tumor Brute, kill Caesar, go Wildcard and take over the Mojave

>>848

>>873

Wild card:

Exactly what House was going to do but with slightly different irrational decisions about which random clans out in the wasteland have to die for whatever reason.

You can't even team up with Benny, who, despite being an unbelievably sinister and twisted person, has the clearest vision regarding what's best for Vegas and doesn't feel tactically or morally obligated to wipe out random groups. Yeah, out in the wastes you kill and you rape and you rob each other, sure, but hell, I don't care if you're a trooper or a raider or one of those Legion nutcases, this is Vegas, and while you're here you take it easy, baby, got that?

It's not that Benny himself being the unlikely partner would be necessary (it would be cool, though, and you could decide whether to eventually kill him off or actually spare him), if Swank did anything but act shocked and if the other Chairmen had, you know, names and dialogue, you could pull the swindle/murder/control reroute on House as intended, keep whatshername who set it all up around too, control the Strip and the Mojave from a private suite with you having the only master key on the lobby floor of the Tops instead of in some broken-down dusty shell of a casino with a few boring bots and some dead/dying old mummy in the back. Even the Tops suites are too remote. If I'm going to fight for Vegas, be its king, I want to see life and people smiling and losing money and getting drunk and loose when I step out of my room. Top floors are supposed to be nice and elite and relaxing, but in Fallout games even the nicest rooms seem to always have trash and grime in them, like wiping things down was knowledge lost in the Great War or some shit. And any room that's not on the first floor will always have a corpse or a randomly hostile person or just a bunch of empty junk in it, only thugs walking the halls, so on. No, I want a glass antechamber with my own customizable strippers and a Blackjack table with a named NPC running it and asking me about my hobbies or some shit, and asking if I'd like a drink while I play. I want to be able to come back to the Tops and find all of my companions there and being treated as guests, together with the awkwardness and funny dialogue concerning non-human followers, and distressed servers coming to me to ask for help about dumb little things my companions have done in my absence. I want not more than one or two of them to be sitting in my antechamber at a time, so when I ask Doc Mitchell and The King to stop by for a drink and a game of Caravan, they can sit down or go play my personal slot machine without tripping over mercenaries.

Now all of this would have been fairly easy with Gamebryo, especially for the people who'd made it, if they'd just taken a few days in design to ask the question "How can we make the player feel welcome and comfortable in New Vegas to underline the contrast with the Wasteland and give them something to yearn for while they're navigating our Vault 22 jump scares, so they don't just get bored and desensitized?". Two weeks of three decent programmers could easily have implemented everything I just said, and it would barely even add to overall testing.

>Play through on normal

>Only discovered gannon and boone

>NCR never did anything wrong

>mary sues

fucking faggot casuals

>>941

>>942

>>944

Because a faction literally run by an AI with an innately delusional understanding of the outside world, a terminally outdated and non-adaptable form of propaganda despite constantly recieving new information (showing that it still lacks any form of intuition or a fuzzy logic substitute for bare minimum levels of creativity), and info torture chambers to get info it's incapable of properly using…all screams sustainable, long-term goals.

>>945

I think he's referring to the old Enclave, but even then the New Enclave is still a hell of a lot better than anything the Wastes had to offer.

also

>The AI

A lot better than most leaders in the Wasteland.

>>949

Here's a thought: let the new, warm and fuzzy Followers of the Apocalypse manage things in collaboration with whichever military organization is currently the least shitty.

They care about people, but they don't put up with any degenerate druggie bullshit or infighting. Would be better management than anyone else.