/fem/ - Female

>I'm a male feminist
Feminism doesn't exist anymore, women are equal to men, they have all the rights, being a feminist is just being normal basically agreeing with the norm that women are equal to men in terms of rights. You're either normal or you're a third-wave, autistic, SJW, faggot.

>>53908
I think the reason that I'm running into trouble is that I refuse to be an autistic SJW. It seems like what a lot of them want me to be.

1) Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blank_Slate
2) Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Stole_Feminism%3F
3) Realize that there's nothing you can do to change the behavior of reactionaries. You cannot make those choices for them. Argument does not work, as they operate on feelings.
4) Live your life, and don't seek approval from insane reactionaries.

>>53913
It's not really approval I'm worried about. They're the majority here–the professors included. If I piss enough of them off then my life gets a lot more difficult. I don't think any of them would fail me for openly disagreeing, but as of right now a lot of them are pretty lenient with me and I feel like their grading processes might become stricter if they dislike me.

I'm fine with being unpopular with these people, but I need to finish my degree. I don't want to fuck my life up because I couldn't keep my mouth shut for a few semesters. But I also don't want to let people censor me.

Thanks for the responses, anons. It's nice to talk about this with people who aren't radicals.

>>53905
There is a crisis in social sciences. You should read something into it:
The lack of a solid theoretical basis, the misuse of 'statistics' to legitimize poor research, the extreme politization of sociological theory, etc. etc.
also

>>53915
Yes, they do ignore facts. And im sure they hate you because you are a male, They just keep you around because they see you as a useful idiot.

That being said don't fight against it. The teachers are just as bad if not worse than the students they infect. If you do something to offend them they will do anything in their power to get kicked out of the college

By the way I suggest you learn about FIRE
http://www.thefire.org/
They do a lot of good to help students.

>>53905
>>53905
There is a crisis in social sciences. You should read something into it:
The lack of a solid theoretical basis, the misuse of 'statistics' to legitimize poor research, the extreme politization of sociological theory, etc. etc.

>>53922
Honestly, I think the only reason I still identify as one is the conditioning and pressure to do so.

I think I might start calling myself egalitarian or something.

Head down, don't open your mouth, spout anything they parrot at you.

You are your reputation, its important. The social war on the other hand, is not.

>>53905
>high-level course on feminism

Your money would be better used as toilet paper. Enjoy your crippling debt and lack of a productive future.

>>53957
I'm gonna hope he's not majoring in womyn's studies or something.

Stop labeling yourself, and stand up for what you believe in.

>>53925
FUC YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU
Do not say that name

>>53905
>I'm a male feminist
What inequality are you fighting?

>i'm a male feminist
would have stopped reading there but i want to help.

stop labeling yourself, first of all. ideologies are poisonous. this cult groupthink feminists are making is retarded as hell. stop calling yourself a male feminist and get the fuck out of there. you're a humanist/equalitarian, like literally every sane thinking human being.

>>53961
I'm here for Sociology. You can get a bunch of decent jobs with a Sociology degree, and if worst comes to worst I can always go be a social worker somewhere.

I'm only taking the course to round out my schedule and to take care of the school's gender studies credits.

>>53989
Sorry to hear that. Knowing a guy that has his sociology degree (and disabled veterans preference), its a tough job market ahead of you. You'd be better off (financially speaking) if you ditched the non STEM path and went to trade school.

>>53984
I don't even know at this point. A lot of the things I believed needed to be fixed - like the supposed wage gap that current research no longer supports - don't seem like they're actually in need of fixing anymore. I mean, hell, a lot of reputable studies done in the last few years are presenting evidence against everything I had believed in.

I don't understand how people can see study after study independently come to the same conclusions, but then just keep ignoring said conclusions. Hell, they get angry that reality doesn't match their fears. Why wouldn't they be happy that things aren't as bad as they thought?

>>53987
Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to do just that.

>>53996
>wage gap
I knew this would be one as it always is, good to hear you have read about it.
I hate the "wage gap" with a passion because it is so simple to discredit. Around 25-30 you are set up in your career and are climbing the ladder so to speak. At this age many women get pregnant and take time off to raise the kid while dad does even more hours to save for nappies, school ect.
The idea that women can have kids and a career equal to a mans means that someone else needs to raise the kid.

>>53998
I suppose that the argument could be made that child care is expensive or that women shouldn't have to take care of the kids, but at that point even I have to sigh and ask them why they would have kids if they weren't ready to accept the changes/sacrifices that came with raising a child.

>"But we're pressured to have kids!"
>"Just tell them to fuck off and keep being successful."

It's not hard.

But if I say this out in public at my school I am fucked.

>>53905
Listen, anon, I think I know where you are right now. I think I was there too, at some point. Let me guess:

You like the concept of feminism because it's "right", ethically. You can see the clear biases that the sides that oppose feminism make, and you think that the average non-equalist is the fox news type or the elliot rodger type. And to some extent that's true. No group is perfect. You want to be on the moral highground here and not get caught up with your personal emotional biases and whatnot because you've seen it happen to other people. The feminists historically seem to know what they're doing, and historically seem to want the best for everyone, so you go with them.

However, you begin to see a trend. Feminists aren't the righeous beings that you thought they were. They make logical mistakes, just like their opposition. They start to find work-around ways of being selfish again. The racism and sexism creeps back in, just backwards this time. Instead of being insanely sexist against women, they're sexist against men (or at least irrationally equalist). They're bad people, just like the other side was, and now you're not sure what to do.

And so, let me tell you what I've learned: people are shit. In general. And good. There are good feminists, good /pol/acks, good paleoconservatively good ancaps… but, in general, they're shit. Places like twitter are a cesspool, not because of any individual group, but because of groupthink in general. You're not going to find an extremist subculture that doesn't commit logical biases (i.e. is honest-to-god right) unless said subculture is specifically designed around not commiting those fallacies. In the end, what is right is what is right, and what is wrong is what is wrong, regardless of how people feel about the matter. Something a lot of people seem to forget.

I'd recommend reading some of the articles on lesswrong (http://lesswrong.com/sequences/), specifically http://lesswrong.com/lw/gt/a_fable_of_science_and_politics and http://lesswrong.com/lw/gw/politics_is_the_mindkiller/. This isn't me telling you you should hands down become a rationalist, but at least check it out. It might click for you.

I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain, but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life, that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about?

This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

http://puerarchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/TheFuturist_TheMisandryBubble.pdf
https://dontmarry.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/the_manipulated_man.pdf
http://vimeo.com/19707588

>>54064
No, there is still hope. Let's see if he makes the correct choice.

>>54067
I think my choice is made.

I'm going with the rationalist idea suggested by >>54026

From now on I will only support what can be proven to me. I don't want an ideology to guide my decisions. I want facts and accuracy.

Thanks for all the input. I'm watching that documentary you posted. So far it's really interesting and it's making good points.

>>53925
Agree on most everything but theres nothing wrong with non normal sexuality. The only one thats really "wrong" is transgender, and the treatments are getting better. Trans people have higher mental illness, but faggots are basically the same as heteros, except they suck dick and lick clit.

>>54070
Want some science?

http://www.sciencevsfeminism.com/myth-of-equality/hjernevask-brainwashing/

>>54021
Well there are problems facing women still. There are also issues men face which also suck(lol MRAs). But the bog inequalities are fixed now. They keep with the crusade when there are smaller changes that can still benefit men and women both.

>>54078
That's the vimeo documentary you linked to already, right? That's the one I'm watching right now.

>>53905
>'m a male feminist, but I find myself increasingly disagreeing with a lot of the ideas put forth by some radical feminists
For one thing "radical feminists" is a pointless term because they're already extremists. And number two, if you don't agree with them, then you're not a feminist. What you believe is simply known as "equality".

>I'm worried that many feminists I know and that I see online are discarding empirical evidence and when I try to talk to them about it they yell at me and make me feel unwelcomed.
For one thing, you have to keep in mind that discarding empirical evidence is something that most people do. This can be proven by the fact that most of the world isn't atheist, and just like them, feminists have some sort of wacko mental illness that makes them see the world in a way that fits around their opinions.

>>53996
>Why wouldn't they be happy that things aren't as bad as they thought?

I used to fear that the USA would be majority non-white

Then I read the census and realized a large portion of Hispanics are white people

But at the same time knowing that the USA will only be around 65% white in 2050 disappoints me because it would mean a decline in percentage is still taking place and the status of the USA as a Western nation is still being eroded demographically, so I would still like to see changes to immigration policy and welfare policy to ensure a larger proportion of immigrants are whites and that lower class people (who are often minorities) are encouraged to have fewer teen pregnancies.

Things are not apocalyptic within my lifetime, but things are not necessarily ideal.

On the other hand these feminists preach "free will to do what we want!" and then get assmad that women want to be english majoring mothers and wives rather than childless biomechanical engineers. They preach freedom but get mad when a majority of women think things are fine as they are in a society where their husbands can no longer say "well I'm the man so you need to do whatever I say when I say it" and married couples act more as a team than a confucian-style hierarchy.

>>53905
Here's the biggest issue I have about these things…

I'm not a Feminist, because I don't support raising women above men.
I'm not a MRA either, because I don't condone cutting out the legs from underneath women.

So I don't support Women's Rights or Men's Rights as such-I support Human Rights and would prefer society to take care of the rest.

Men have certain needs and women have certain needs-I won't make the mistake of saying that 'Men/Women deserve X right' because the truth is, we need rather than deserve these things for a functional society.
When a law is specifically only going to protect women's rights or men's rights, it's atrocious in either stance because it's not treating them like people-but women or men.
Policy should decide what kind of enforcement is needed, not law.

All the same though, I seem to have forgotten what I was really going to say and instead went off into a tangential realm of equity of law.

Let's put it this way;
(Radical) Feminists want to give themselves rights-this is not equality but equity.
Equality in outcomes at the least because the nature of women is to care and show their emotions.
This isn't to say they're more emotional than man-humans are emotional beings.
But to say that (Fringe) MRA support equality or equity is not necessarily true.

Humanists, Egalitarians, and just plain people-they care about Justice, which is application of the law equally and distributing punishment according to severity of the crime that has taken place.

Equality of outcome is not equity because it does not give those who need a different approach to their problems a solution-merely one that is supposed to fit everyone's.

>I'm afraid to go against the grain
You have lost your freedom as a man, because you gave it away willingly.

You could have prevented this.

>>53981
>ayaan hirsi ali
What's wrong with her?

>>54236
fucking this

Yeah I used to be where you are OP.

I started out learning about feminism in high school and it was mostly focused on historical battles for women's rights to vote, own property and the like.

So at first I thought, yeah those seem like very good ideas. I heard that feminism was the belief in equality and I thought yeah people may be different but equal dignity and respect under the law, equal rights and freedoms, and equal opportunity to do try in a meritocracy seem like good ideas. I'm all for that.

Then of course I would later look into some feminist issues because I had heard some things about them and I was curious what other feminists thought. Only I was disappointed. Quite a lot of them seemed to be sexist, they were rude, angry, ignorant, self righteous, circle jerking, manipulative and their issues were too often ones of petty twisted sexist advantage seeking.

I supposed that these were just some assholes. Radical feminists, right? Every movement has assholes and idiots right? Well in time I went through more feminist material and considered it critically. Unfortunately a great deal of their criticisms of others were intensely true about themselves. Their women only spaces, their sexism, their biased studies, their knee jerk criticisms of men and defenses of women, their manipulative statistics, their problem in having not enough men representing half the population in whats supposed to be equality, their being behind a lot of harm done to men, their bullying, their twisting issues to make it all about them ("homophobia is all about misogyny"), their aggressive rhetoric about a war on women a culture of rape and hatred of women, and their attempts to censor and control media. And this came from supposed well respect feminist leaders and representatives, at their talks and forums, and discussions. By this time I had met more and more feminists, and found I couldn't find respectable completely non sexist views in any of them.

Alas OP I would suggest you don't speak up even though they're bothering you. Instead I would suggest writing things down, listening, asking questions, and thinking critically. You're there to study do the best you can without getting yourself in too much trouble.

>>53913
For sure.

>>53918
I've had a few politics courses and I've noticed they have a lot of very strong political notions themselves that twist things. I would still reccomend considering what they say, but with a critical eye. I liked actually having professors that disagreed with me or presented completely different takes but with interesting facts backing it up.

That said there's a lot of twisted interpretations and abuses of science when you get into really echo chamber heavy studies, and gender studies are probably by far the worst offender.

See this video where gender studies liberals are confronted with scientific studies that go against their feel good ideas. And I liked their views, but reality and a desire for knowledge should take precedent over what I want to be true. http://vimeo.com/19707588

>>53925
>oh you got triggered? you don't like bit tits in video games? boo fucking hoo

And then they say:

"But you don't understand you evil man, we feminists are good and were protecting you from evil ideas being presented that will make you a sex offender. Just like how in the 50s conservative moralists thought we'd all have bad morals because of movies, and that didn't happen. Uh er, they were wrong, but were right, about the same thing. Uh er, your big tittied character makes me feel less good about myself. My body image! I'm an idiot who can't tell fantasy apart from reality and selfishly I want to be the most attractive person in the world, you can't have anyone else be attractive other than me."

>>53996
Your criticisms seem right on the money. Keep at it. Keep learning. Keep thinking considering everything critically.

>>54026
Very true, very true. The thing is that some groups don't accept criticism and change, they double down and get worse. They also don't behave themselves very well and then portray it as some sort of heroic crusade and society doesn't seem to know better.

Some anonymous shitposters here act like shit and espouse extreme and stupid ideas in an arrogant and rude fashion, however society doesn't portray them in a heroic and serious light.

>>53905

OP, have you tried NOT being a male feminist?

Behavior like this is why I don't identify as a feminist. I believe in equality; feminism today runs contrary to that.

>>53910
Don't give in; they won't treat you any better for it.

>>53915
That is a problem; I don't know what the best course of action is for you. Professors are more lenient with certain students than they are with others. Maybe focus on genuine concerns such as cultures where women are still treated horribly? The third world still sucks for women in particular. Basically what >>53925 said.


>>54425
This is good advice, OP.

>I'm a male feminist

lol stopped reading there, you're a fucking joke. Women are the most privileged group in the Western World on top of being more than 50% of the population.

Kill yourself.

Hold steadfastly to this:
1. Equal treatment under the law, because we're both people who hold citizenship.
2. Different treatment everywhere else, because we're biologically different people.

Can't fail.

>>54021
>or that women shouldn't have to take care of the kids

they don't. but statistics will show you that an overwhelming amount of the time, that woman will cheat on and leave the father that stays at home to take care of the kids whilst she's out working.

and then when asked why, in addition to citing the usual 'we grew apart' 'it felt boring and not honeymoon period and because i don't actually need him to support me i just left ;_;' nonsense, they will generally state that they grew to dislike him, not respect him, view him as lazy, resent him. yadda yadda.

it's a no win situation. the shit feminists spout that they want are the very things they will not make work and say they hate when its given to them.

>>53905
> I'm a male feminist

kill yourself

>>53910
white knight harder. its going to have to yield you some pussy sooner or later, right?

>>53996
> Why wouldn't they be happy that things aren't as bad as they thought?

because they are majoring for a career in gender-baiting?

>>54430
mudslime detected, I suppose

Im a feminist!!! I like women who lick my asshole deep. And let me dominate them. And force them to do nasty stuff. Suck it you fem piece of shit!!!!

>>56947
u wot m8?

She's anti muslim

>>56979
maybe if the AIDS hadn't gotten to your faggy brain yet, youd realize I was commenting on the guy she was replying to

>>57026

You do realise that all the negative things you mentionned have nothing to do with feminism itself?

You philosophically can't be against feminism if you are a woman. The ideal may have been torn by the idols, but the ideal remains a good thing.

>>57026
Guy here. I've kinda been thinking similarly to you for a while, but do you think you'd still be afraid if not for feminist doctrines? I mean looking at it objectively men are stronger, and rape is(compared to other crimes) pretty damn easy to get away with due to lack of evidence. On the flip side of course, an accusation can ruin a life even if a conviction never happens.

Bleh gender relations are so depressing. Everything is shit now.

>>57052

you're part of the problem.

think objectively and look at the facts, and decide whether this is really the way you want to think, and the way you want to live your life.

look at the pros and cons, and you will see that there are better ways.

>>53969

underrated post

As a ''male femenist' you have been cowed. It's why you fear to strike out against the evil that is idealogy. You are swept up into a cult and afraid of what leaving will do to the social circles you have created.

But here's the thing. Those social circles are made up of cult members. They are worth nothing in the real world. They cannot help you secure employment or a healthy relationship.

Additionally, cults can only survive getting more and more radical, this is how they maintain relevancy. We have seen feminism do this in the last few decades, it's inarguable that 90% of modern feminists are now radicalized into the cult. History shows that's as a non-core member of the cult (in this case, a male) you will be pushed out after a certain point of radicalism is reached.

So embrace your masculinity, jump ship from this insane ideology, and fight back against it. Stopping the power of men to fight back is what feminism has been about for the last four decades, and you are personally responsible for its success or failure in the modern age.

Are there any feminists left who can see past their big fucking noses and try to fix women's suffrage where it actually exists?
i.e. In places like Saudi Arabia and other, similar shitholes?

>>58651
Underrated post.

>>59320
They call themselves women's rights activists because, unlike feminists, they care about that stuff.

>>56934

Link to those statistics? Sounds like /pol/ bullshit that's ironically misandrist (a real man can't be a househusband!)

>>63682
>They call themselves women's rights activists

This, Ghada Jamsheer, Ayaan Ali Hirsi, etc.