/fem/ - Female

The only people who infantilize women are SJWs and modern feminists. They act as if women are incapable of functioning in the adult world and need all sorts of special accommodations in order to do anything.

There's nothing childish about a traditional housewife role. You need to be pretty intelligent and emotionally mature in order to be able to raise children properly.

As for guys wanting a docile and submissive women, I would say they're probably a minority in the real world. Or maybe they just think that's what they want and don't fully understand the implication of it. At least, I personally can't imagine anything more boring than a relationship with someone who's a complete doormat and can't engage with you intellectually in any way. Ideally your spouse should be close to or equally intelligent, and there should be mutual respect between you two.

>>57366
I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at here. It's common knowledge that people value innocence, purity, and submissiveness in women. It's basically drawing appeal from the fact that they're the weaker sex, and if a woman possesses those qualities they're generally a good mate. Why are you acting like this is some kind of revelation or that it's wrong?

Fuck off back to Tumblr.

It's not SJW at all to note this, really. Society DOES treat women like children. (The SJW narrative would never vary from "WOMEN ARE PERFECT MARTYR ANGEL VICTIMS.")

However, you do get a LITTLE SJW-ish in your analysis of why.

1. Men aren't intimidated by successful women. (In general. I'm sure a few are.)

BUT, in general, guys DON'T find older women who concentrated on their careers (the typical "successful" woman) attractive. And when so much of society tries to basically fetishize those women ("COME ON YOUNG GUYS! THEY'RE COUGARS AND THEY'RE FUN AND SEXY TO FUCK HAHA RIGHT C'MON GUYS") they're met with a hearty "fuck off."

That's not to say that men don't like any woman with a career. It's just that many "successful" women make the career the CENTER of their lives. Lots of people don't find that attractive.

2. Subby fetishes being the main thing women are into: You know, there may be biological reasons for this, and that doesn't necessarily imply that the person is "childish", right? I do think it is sort of expected for the man to be the dom and the woman to be the sub, but I think that has more to do with the man's sexuality being seen as inherently aggressive nowadays, and the woman's sexuality being seen as inherently innocent.

3. The idea of women being supported by husbands and staying at home - lots of young people, guys and girls, want a family. Lots of young people grew up in a family where both parents worked, and they saw how that setup JUST DIDN'T WORK. Of the two sexes, men are the most shamed into "provider" roles (if a family is living in poverty, people aren't going to point their fingers at the woman.)

4. Men liking docile women who follow orders - I know literally no one beyond the spergs at /pol/ who likes this? In fact, I hear a lot of guys COMPLAINING about how women are too docile.

5. Prevalency of words like good girl being used - Uh. Example? I'm not sure what you are talking about here.

6. General attitude toward women needing more protection - You can thank biology, and the feminist tendency to portray women as the Eternal Victim Sex for this

7. Women with immature traits tend to get a big following - So do immature guys, really.

8. Muh animes - Guys in general like anime not because the women are silly or immature (which is usually just there for humorous effect) but because the women in anime are SEXUALLY AND ROMANTICALLY OPEN with guys. Waifus will confess to guys in anime, hit on guys, flirt with guys, sexually proposition guys, etc. In real life, this ALMOST NEVER happens. And the result is that a lot of guys feel completely undesirable and unwanted. Anime provides guys with a fantasy where girls actually act like they want them.

>>57368
A woman can be submissive and intelligent at the same time, you know. These aren't mutually exclusive traits.

>>57390
That's true. I was more going off on what I've seen dudes around here describe as their ideal woman, and it comes across as them wanting a lobotomized retard that they can shape and control.

>>57396

see >>57379 point 4

>spergs from /pol/

>>57366
>men being intimidated by successful women
I don't feel intimidated by successful women, nor do I know many other men who do. That said, I might feel less inclined to pursue a relationship if it seems as though there's no room for me to be the provider.

>subby fetishes…the prevelency of words like good girl being used
Submissive in bed doesn't mean submissive everywhere else.

A lot of the girls I know are happily infantile and refuse to own any of their shit. Because they're cute, everyone gives them a pass on responsibility whenever they want. It's infuriating.

I don't want to date someone immature and malleable. The traits I'm attracted to are the traits that will make a good partner and mother: someone sensible, kind, responsible, and nurturing. If she's a bit dainty, then that's a bonus. Not because it's childlike, but because I like knowing she feels safe when I hold her. also, pretty sure most women like to feel protected, but the only evidence i've got for that is anecdotal

>>57396
To be fair, one of the absolute most desirable traits in a partner is loyalty, which can be much easier to guarantee by grooming someone into it yourself.

>Women are treated differently than men
>Women don't have it as nice as men
No shit. It's 2015 and it's still sacrilege to say this? It's not like we don't have an abundance of research from all areas of life confirming this exact fucking thing.

They treat us like pets even if they don't mean to and think we're aggressive bitches if we act like them. It's common knowledge, not SJW shit. Even my guy friends look out for what the other men in my life are doing. They know.

>>57422

Thank you for demonstrating to us the subtle difference between someone who is an SJW and someone who is just a whiny asshole

>>57422
>Women don't have it as nice as men

that's some grass is always greener shit if i've ever read it

>>57432
It's fact. Less pay for the same positions with the same education and experience. Economically penalized for babby. Same go-getter behaviors in men are considered overly aggressive in women and cause them to be passed over for hiring and promotion. You can't actually pretend that life is fluffy and perfect and we live in an egalitarian society. Hell, that's just what women put up with. Being born with the wrong skin color is practically a death sentence.

>>57434
The wage gap is a myth that needs to stop being regurgitated, please take that nonsense out of here.

>>57366
>Anime especially is a big offender with this by stuff like tsunderes or the women in general just acting kind of…silly and dense
What anime are you talking about that you've noticed this? The last few I watched had female characters who were just as smart and capable as the male characters.

Why do you think a character being a tsundere means she's dense? Are you sure you know what tsundere means?

>>57434
>Less pay for the same positions with the same education and experience.
This is true, but the implied assertion is false because it relies on a facile reading of the available evidence. It's like the increase in diagnoses of autism: taking the raw number of autists generated per year, the increase is alarming. That growth is not what's up for debate. It's the cause for that growth. One group of people will blame the mercury in vaccines, but another will argue that the diagnostic criteria have changed to encompass a wider set of behaviours. Adjusting for these changes reveals that in fact, the rate of increase is negligible or nonexistent.You are blaming the mercury, so to speak. Unless this is literally the first time you've left tumblr, you should already know better than to buy into this shit.

>You can't actually pretend that life is fluffy and perfect and we live in an egalitarian society.
I'm not. I just don't believe that inequality of outcome necessarily indicates an inequality of opportunity.

>Being born with the wrong skin color is practically a death sentence.
Oh, ok. So this was bait. Well played.

Men and women both have it shitty, but they have it shitty in different ways. Those negatives may either be negligible or debilitating depending on your own inherent strengths as a person and what family you were born into. This is why for some it may look like women have it better or that men have it better. It's apples and oranges. Stop falling for this dumb divide and conquer tactic, and realize that the opposite sex is not your enemy or competition.

>>57434

> Less pay for the same positions with the same education and experience
Nope
There are extremely small variations that fall well within the margin of error for the majority of income groups

The only income group where women with the same experience and education are paid less is the top 5%, and there it's by a meager 6%

Funny enough, in certain cities, there's a larger wage gap among younger workers - in FAVOR of women, by 8%

> Economically penalized for babby

Then don't have a fucking babby, men would be economically penalized for one too if, you know, they weren't expected to work and not get to spend time with their kid

> Men are go-getters, women are looked down upon for same behavior

You have no way to prove that whatsoever. But even if it were true, it's not like there isn't any behavior that women routinely get away with that men would be eviscerated for

> Skin color a death sentence

Get out, faggot

OP… you realize the #1 reason modern feminism is unpopular is because it treats women like children?

>>57459
I treat everyone the same. Full Stop.

I've been called sexist by my friends wife when I first met her but now she and I hit it off and I just kept treating her like a human being and not a delicate flower.

>>57366
You are correct.
Not too sound too SJWy either but as much as i love American culture it does enforce some things that are negative. Those being, women are to be coddled and treated like children and Men are emotionless horndogs.
But yes, you are correct that women are infantilized. Feminism was, at least in the first wave, about putting women on the same level as men but unfortunately it was co-opted by marxists and morons and warped into a warped ideology wherein women get the following:

All the Rights that men do with NONE of the responsibility
The inability to be wrong
The inability to be right
The inability to be taken seriously
The inability to be taken as a joke
The ability to choose any career that they want
The inability to choose any career they want without being harassed by feminists for not choosing whatever career they want them to choose (subject to change depending on the year)
The inability to be responsible for ones own actions
The inability to not hate men
The requirement to not hate men


Eventually all of these bullshit expectations put upon women make men, and women themselves, reply to anything women say publically with a "Yes Dear"

In the most ironic of ways, Feminism has succeeded in actually creating the very Patriarchy they thought they were dismantling.

>>57451
>Nope
Wrong
>men would be economically penalized for one too
Wrong, their lifetime wealth is minimally affected
>You have no way to prove that whatsoever.
Except for studies which case by case analyze hiring decisions and literally include quotes from executives talking about how female candidates weren't 'feminine' enough.
>Get out, faggot
Lol racism is a lie! Look you neonazi, the female male wage gap does exist, but it's nothing compared to the one between blacks and whites. Two major national studies analyzed census data. You can control for economic background, the education of your parents, your education, your qualifications, and your job. In the same job, with the same background and qualifications, a black person makes like 70 or 80 percent of what a white person does. They're questioned by the police more often, picked up more often, punished more harshly for the same crimes, shoved into special needs classrooms (and out of normal classroom) disproportionately often, are picked less when they raise their hands in class, and if you turn in the same resume and application to the same employer but your name is Tyrone instead of something white like David they will get half as many callbacks.

Is everyone in this thread an autist who has never had an education? Seriously, just fucking google this shit. You MRA fags are pathetic.

>>57513
no one's a "mra" here, we've been over this topic many a time. the wage gap is simply a myth. feel free to derail the fucking topic and have your shitty data picked apart like all of the other times. but most likely you'll just complain about "autists" who "didn't get an education" and shit up the thread either way.

>>57513
To elaborate, the myth in what's called the 'gender wage gap' is the implication that the gap is caused by gender discrimination instead of choices.
Of course, you know this, and you just wanna fag up the thread regardless.

>>57434
Did it ever occur to you that men and women are biologically different and the differences in the way they are treated are the cultural reflection of that fact?

>>57380
this. Nobody is safe from this. Also we treat children like retards

>>57627
Biological explanations for behaviors don't justify their application. Person you're responding to is wrong, but they'd be rightly pissed off if they were correct.

>>57366
there are similarities between treatment of children and treatment of women, yes. Children are provided for. Women are traditionally provided for. Children need emotional support. Women seek more emotional support than men (in part because of stigma against men showing emotion).

Some men like the idea of a successful woman. Personally, I'm in favour, for a whole bunch of reasons. Firstly, it's makes for more interesting conversation. Secondly, it brings in more money, improving quality of life. Thirdly, cooking and cleaning do not take all day to do; I'd feel uneasy about subsidising someone else's partial retirement. Fourthly, my partner should be worth more than a cleaner; a well paid man can hire a cleaner and go out to dinner without difficulty. Fifthly, I saw the housewife/provider dynamic in my own parents and it doesn't bring them happiness. Sixthly, if you earn the same and both work, no alimony.

That said, if she were earning enough to be in a much higher pay bracket, it may be emasculating and unequal enough to make me feel insecure.

Men do like women with passive traits. It's what underpins femininity, either biologically or culturally. Passive doesn't mean childish; it means acting demure, defferential and in a responsive fashion. If a woman is acting brashly, she's acting like a guy. If she's acting like a guy, is it any wonder guys are less interested? (Or at least, /pol/ guys)

The 'good girl' thing, I'm not gonna give you. Guys are infantilised in parlance as well. It's just a thing that we do. 'A night out with the boys', the 'man-cave' idea of masculinity being immature or childish, etc. Sometimes that'll hit women, but I wouldn't say disproportionately.

The zeitgeist of the day is third wave feminism. That means demolition of gender roles, their reconstruction and demolition again. It's all about female empowerment. That leads to the same situation as with everyone suddenly given far too much power: it goes to their heads. Look at Kanye or other modern rappers. A common trend is 'holy shit I be rich'. Similarly, with women in media, it's about claiming ownership over their sexuality, which leads to childish actions.

The inverse of it is when women are depicted as hyper-competent in media. Most children's media will have a kickass princess now. The woman is just as powerful, if not more, than the bumbling idiot male. Oh, yeah. And men are easily-angered idiots in media.

In regards to anime, firstly it's from a different culture. Secondly, tsundere tend to be very competent compared to the guy, who gets by only on heart and effort. Take the archtypical tsun, Tohsaka. She is calm, collected and serious, except around MC.

The role of women is changing and society is still finding its footing with it, which isn't helped by the trend of generational flip-flopping. (Our parents' generation, for example, had it common for women to keep their maiden names. It's less common in ours.)

>>57366
>men being intimidated by successful women

Where does this myth come from?

People flock to succes, women are no exception to this.

>>57379
Regarding #8, there's also a prevailing belief that men are supposed to make the first move in romance, and that being pursued by a woman is emasculating.

>>57659
I would imagine some insecure men might feel emasculated if their spouse was more successful and was the breadwinner.

Though it's kind of an outdated thing. Society has collapsed so badly for our generation that I couldn't give less of a shit how much more successful a woman is than myself so long as she's not bothered by it either.

>>57660
Never understood this at all. I always hated the fear of rejection. All of that goes away when it's a woman approaching you.

>>57366

>It feels like society treats women like children

Hoooo boy, strap yourself in because this is going to be a long explanation.

Look at this from a man's perspective. When a man is a child, or more specifically when a man is hitting puberty, he suddenly becomes bigger, faster, stronger, harder, and more aggressive than the girls around him. At the way he relates to other boys and girls will change. He will be seen as a threat to the girls around him, so he must keep his strength in check, but he also will have to start competing with other males, so he feels the need to prove his masculinity. In addition to this other people, both male and female, will always be less sympathetic to his problems than they are to the problems of women. This creates a three-pronged catalyst for the man's maturation.

First, so that he keeps himself in check around women, men are instructed never to hit a woman, to be careful about how he approaches sex with women, and even to avoid doing anything that might make a woman feel threatened, even if the thing the woman feels threatened by is simply the man's presence.

In order to appear masculine to other males the man masks all emotion. No matter how sad he is he must not cry, no matter how much something hurts he must grit his teeth and try to work through it, No matter how much to do childish fun things he has to remain composed and act like an adult. He also has to learn how to hold his liquor, fight when necessary, and be competitive at games, sports, jobs, and virtually every other aspect of life that men care about.

Because people have little sympathy for men, a man must learn that he can never get out of a speeding ticket by being cutesy, he will never have his actions excused because he "just had a few too many drinks, tee hee", and worst of all he will be judged guilty until proven innocent if he is alleged to have hit or sexually assaulted a woman.

Now, I'm not complaining about these things (except for that last one, which is bullshit) because I generally think that these measures are necessary for men to be the productive members of society that they should be. I'm just telling you how male maturity works. Now imagine you're a man and you've gone through that process. You look around you and you see girls behaving the way girls behave. They get drunk and hit men. They engage in activities at which they suck, but they cheer each other on with cries of "you go girl!" rather than putting any work into getting better. They cry when they're sad and they complain when they have a bad day and they expect to get free shit for being girls because they know men will give it to them. I wouldn't say that most women hit every bullet point on this list, but almost every one I know hits at least a few. As a man you see this and you think to yourself "those are all the things that I did as a kid, and if I did any of them now I'd have my social life destroyed or even go to jail in a few cases. Why the hell aren't they suffering any consequences for this?"

That's why women get treated like children sometimes. From men's perspective, they're acting like children. The last time a man acted like that and didn't receive consequences he was a child, so he associates that with the way women behave.

>Men claiming they like more docile women

I do because I'm a dominant personality. It's as simple as that. There are also men who are submissive personalities and there's nothing wrong with that either. It has nothing to do with being intimidated by successful women, it's just that they aren't a good match for someone like me. Having a healthy relationship between two dominant personalities is difficult at best and impossible at worst. There's just too much head-butting.

>Anime especially is a big offender with this by stuff like tsunderes or the women in general just acting kind of…silly and dense.

I've always thought tsunderes were supposed to be kind of man-like (have trouble with emotion, feel the need to make an outward show of strength, etc.) so essentially they're being portrayed with negative male stereotypes. And you know what? that's fine. We need to stop worrying about the social implications of characters. characters are supposed to start off flawed, go through character arcs, and hopefully become better in the process. Of COURSE there are negative stereotypes. As a writer myself the idea that having negative female stereotypes in media is supposed to be a bad thing is very frustrating. It's just a part of the human reality. There are positive people and there are negative people and sometimes the negative people get better and sometimes they don't.

tl;dr Women are given a childlike treatment because they act like males do in their preadolescence, doms like subs and subs like doms, and trying to apply sociology to the effect of media is bullshit

>>57366
It's complicated, but it doesn't make you an SJW to call out gender issues. It's only SJW territory if you are illogical about it. Society does treat women in an infantile way quite a bit. But it's a mix of things. For starters, guys tend to socialize in a more aggressive way, while girls tend to socialize in a more "friendly" way. Note that in terms of actually being dicks/cunts, the ratios are about the same. They just approach being a dick/cunt differently. Add in social expectations and the fact that women can from a young age learn to play up their weaknesses (women tears) and the fact that they are naturally more desirable of the two sexes, and it creates a natural recipe for it.

And it cuts both ways. On one hand, it can make it a LOT harder for a woman to advance in terms of career, and means that there's always the risk of guys being deceptive and treating you like a child because they want your body. On the other hand, it means that women will almost never lack a support network in some form.

At the end of the day, there are problems facing women, but there are also problems facing men. I have no idea how to fix them because a lot of them are a natural result of biology, and the typical feminist strategy doesn't fix much of anything. Anywho, I'm a dude so take this with a grain of salt. But OP is totally not a faggot. There are gender issues and they're not going away anytime soon.

>>57671
Oh, and a little addendum. The reason guys are intimidated by more successful women is because women who are more successful will have more options, and a large portion of women base their attraction to men heavily on the financial success of the man. This isn't always the case, and I wouldn't even say its a majority thing, but social expectations and the fact that men have at default less sexual capital means guys get really insecure about this. They basically feel like they can't have a permanent relationship with a women who is better off than them because she'll eventually dump them for someone better.

In my limited experience, this is true, sadly. But don't let the red piller types start spewing "hypergamy" at you or whatever. A lot of guys do this shit too except with women who are more attractive physically. And emotionally mature men or women who want to settle down will accept that once they've committed a great deal to a relationship it isn't worth it to toss it aside.

Shit's complicated.

>>57666
I figured the appeal of tsunderes was the whole "defrosting the ice queen" angle. Well, that's what it originally was at least.

>>57674
The two theories aren't mutually exclusive

>>57666
This is a good post.

>>57379
Your cAPS LOck key seeMS TO be haVING some kind of intermittent fAILURE

>>57434
>Economically penalized for babby.

AS YOU SHOULD BE, you cunt.

You're literally asking me to pay your ass for months in exchange zero value.

I wouldn't have to put up with this shit if I had hired a man, instead.

Therefore, men are inherently less risky candidates for employment – and thus much more valuable.

The fact that you expect to be paid the same as a man even though he's better is an insult to men and even capitalism itself.

Women like to be equal. But they are not turned on by being equal. They are turned off, and men are turned off.

So, being a strong independent woman and all that increases your risk of being a cat lady.

But who would not want to be strong and independent? Everyone wants to be strong and independent.

But every man knows that if you want to turn a woman on you have to treat her a little bit badly, if only in a teasing sort of way

Male anon here
I'm not a feminist/SJW either, but I do agree with you.

And no you're not loopy or a Feminist/SJW for having that perspective. Feminists/SJWs ironically want to infantilize women further because they think men are hypersensitive pricks and women should be protected from all the bad in the world at all costs.

My advice is ignore people's bullshit comments and behavior towards you and prove to the world you're not one of "those girls" who benefits from being treated like a kid. If you want to change the world you need to do the adult thing which is do it yourself. Remember from small seeds do oak trees grow. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

>>57798
>hypersensitive
I meant hyerinsensitive

>>57805

Nah man, 8chan's anti-SJWs are easily the most annoying part of the chan.

Anything that might possibly could be spun as having "SJW" elements, and they sperg out about it. It's really fucking annoying

Luckily people seem to be realizing this now and the whole kneejerk "AAAAH EVERYTHING IS SJW" reaction is dying down

>>57813
> Why are people on this site so paranoid about SJWs?

Because SJWs outside of 8chan are fucking everywhere. In the media. In forum and website moderating staff, where they issue bans left right and centre. Constantly injecting their bullshit agenda into fucking everything, and hoaring themselves out to the media when people inevitably rip their victim complex to shreads.

Everyday they constantly dox or harass anyone who doesn't kiss their ass and their narrative. And you wonder why people here fucking hate them. I hope you're just a bored troll.

>>57816

This. This is exactly what I am talking about.

Note this: NEVER, anywhere in my post, did I ask "Why are people so paranoid about SJWs" or "Why do people hate SJWs". I KNOW why.

I merely pointed out that anti-SJWs are so paranoid that they sperg out about literally ANYTHING that they think is SJW, and they see SJWs EVERYHWERE, even where they're not.

And it's annoying as shit. Sorry, but it is. You know how SJWs see racism and sexism everywhere, even where it isn't? You know how fucking it is that they derail conversations about ANYTHING - games, movies, comics - into conversations about racism and sexism, so that the actual content never gets discussed?

Anti-SJWs are the EXACT SAME WAY, except replace "racism and sexism" with "SJW tendencies."

And look how butthurt you are that I pointed it out. You're literally EXACTLY like them. SJWs and anti-SJWs are two sides of the same coin.

>>57820
You're obviously new here. 8chan doesn't exist to spite SJWs or bitch about SJWs. Everyboard has it's own theme and agenda and for the most part shit posting is a very small issue. I'm sorry that the anti-SJW sentiment annoys you, but you're pointing the fingers at the wrong people. Most of us are only like this because we have in some way or form been wronged by SJWs. You and I both know why. That is just how it is.

As for derailing threads. You're the one who brought this up not me.

>>57823

> Y-Y-YOU'RE JUST NEW

This is the most fucking predictable of responses EVER. Please stop using it.

I NEVER SAID 8chan existed to spite or bitch about SJWs. Why do you keep putting words in my mouth?

ALL I SAID is that anti-SJWs, with their tendency to see SJWs EVERYWHERE, and derail every topic with shitposting about how this or that is "SJW", are just as annoying as SJWs themselves are. And no, it's not a small issue, it's a pretty noticeable issue on boards like /co/, where, in addition to the endless flood of topics about how everything bad in comics is happening because of SJWs, you cannot mention a cartoon without three or four people inevitably claiming that it's SJW. It's mind-numbing. I don't even care for people pointing out SJW shit WHEN IT ACTUALLY EXISTS, but when people begin saying "This cartoon is SJW because uh uh uh uh THE ART STYLE LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING TUMBLR WOULD LIKE", without actually debating the CONTENT of the show, things have gone too far.

>>57829

Yeah but I don't think it's anywhere in the realm of possibility that this shit could happen to fullchan.

And like, part of the reason why SJWs on 4chan (or any community really) were so awful wasn't JUST because they're, well, SJWs. It's because of the way they CHANGE the community. I've seen it happen in a lot of places. The phases are:

1. Community springs up on internet to discuss particular interest, good discussion, etc.

2. SJWs filter into community, derail discussion of the show or hobby into a discussion about sexism and racism

3. Community reacts and morphs, now, instead of discussing the subject, people feel the need to defend against the histrionic accusations of SJWs. When a SJW is not talking about how something in the hobby is sexist or racist, people are now talking about how something ISN'T sexist or racist. All other discussion about the actual content of the hobby falls by the wayside

4. This phase usually depends on how things played out in stage 3, but could end up with a SJW takeover of mod positions, mass bannings, etc.

5. Community is now a hollow shell, instead of discussing things, they just sit around and talk about how the hobby is sexist or racist

8chan feels sort of like a reverse image of the hollw SJW endgame (step 5), just instead of talking about how everything is racist and sexist, they talk about how everything ISN'T racist and sexist. Obviously it's not COMPLETELY like that, but it can get pretty bad.

I just don't think the solution for SJW-ism is to become rabid anti-SJWs. I think the solution is to sort of de-politicize the whole issue.

To give another example, it's incredibly difficult to talk about race today. On one side, you have people who scream "RACISM" if you don't parrot exactly what you want them to say, and on the other side, you have people who scream "RACE-BAITER" if you don't say exactly what THEY want you to say.

Even though the people who scream "RACISM" have more power than the people who scream "RACE-BAITER", I don't think the solution is to take the power from the former and give it to the latter. I think the solution would be to ignore them both. Until we do, there's never going to be any real conversation.