/gamergatehq/ - #GamerGate and #NotYourShield

They want to push that narrative?

Gamergate is at fault?

Not Derek Smart? Or their constant need to redo previously done art assets, pushing back their releases, and the constant drive to sell virtual items of a game they have yet to complete, and using that to milk their audience of more money? Why focus on finishing the game when you sell HOT AND NEW virtual ships that people can't play with yet? Keep that gravy train going as long as possible!

I say we embrace this.

This would be fucking hilarious, another Tortanic, and failure on Kickstarter.

I honestly don't have time now to read through the entirety of that, but please be careful, from what I skimmed doesn't really suggest that he's blaming GamerGate… It would seem that when Derek Smart came into the GG spotlight a bunch of nimrods jumping on the MUH HAPPENINGS train wrote a bunch of knee-jerk responses to Star Citizen which they of course used to burn their own MUH HARASSMENT narrative.

Thread carefully leaders.

>>281582

To fuel*

Damn I'm tired…

AND HERE I WAS ABOUT TO BUY-IN AFTER A BUDDY GOT MY EAR RINGING WITH HOW GREAT IT WILL BE!

I'll wait a little longer on that.

>>281582

>I honestly don't have time now to read through the entirety of that, but please be careful, from what I skimmed doesn't really suggest that he's blaming GamerGate…

This is admittedly a more responsible reaction, sit on this until they continue their attack vector on Gamergate.

But muh dank memes!

>>281582

This

SC IS DOOMED LET'S WATCH IT BURN was a forced meme on half/v/

Let's watch for a bit and see who's in the right here. The Escapist could be backsliding into clickbait here.

it wouldn't be the first time the escapist was wrong about something or the first time derek smart acted like a crazy asshole.

remember during the SPJ panel when they said that anonymous sourcing should be a last resort, not a first resort?

seems to be commonly accepted practice amongst vidya journos

>>281582

This

It seems like we're being set up. Leave SC alone.

>>281614

>it wouldn't be the first time the escapist was wrong about something or the first time derek smart acted like a crazy asshole.

True. On the other hand, I wouldn't bet any money on Roberts here.

This isn't like the thing Kotaku did with Dyack: this is MULTIPLE people coming out all with the exact same story, corroborating perfectly with what everyone suspects is happening anyway because the project is clearly limping and massively overdue in producing visible results.

Smart might be a massive troll, but it's not like he's the first guy to point out SC looks incredibly fucked. Even from a theoretical perspective it always looked like Roberts was promising something completely unfeasible.

They found out where the "confidential sources" that this came from. Was just a bunch of anonymous shill posts on Glassdoor Australia.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/287310/escapist-anonymous-sources-uncovered-by-redditer

https://www.red*dit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3n6lum/escapist_anonymous_sources_uncovered/

This shit was just a hit piece with no real sources.

Posing in a derek smart PA thread.

>>281674

this seems like legitimate criticism if what you say is true

Derek was linking Glass Door as proof of bad management..

https://www.red*dit.com/r/DerekSmart/comments/3mu9v0/derek_was_linking_glass_door_as_proof_of_bad/

This post was made two days ago, proves that Lizzy and Derek were working together.

>>281643

The CONTENT of those posts is similar, not the exact quotes. Nothing there proves she simply took the posts from there instead of it being the same people both talking to her and posting. Those are not word-for-word quotes.

If you're using this to claim she totally made up everything and is lying about contacting and verifying these people's positions, you're gonna need something a bit stronger.

Also, is this thread getting shilled or what? "Can't verify her sources"? No, idiots, she can't REVEAL her sources. That's different. You are free to doubt those sources' legitimacy, but claiming that a journalist not ratting out their whistle-blowers means a story is a sham is ridiculous.

>>281690

As I said, she doesn't need to REVEAL them

But show us some god damn correspondence with the identifying information of the individuals blacked out, but time stamps and subject matter kept in.

I want some proof she didn't just concoct this story in 48 hours to feed into the shit she started a week ago.

>>281696

Airport's Law

No matter how much you defend Lizzy on here, she ain't gonna spread her legs for you.

>>281700

That's all you've got? I'm pointing out you made verifiable false claims. Suddenly, getting information wrong isn't a problem?

Funny that you are accusing people of being a shill. Those glassdoor reviews were posted sequentially over the course of four days. You don't find that odd? and how Derek Smart was linking to them just 2 days prior to the article being published, while SC was still engaged in discussion of the facts of the article before they posted it? Lizzy posted that article early without waiting for reply like she was supposed to.

>>281705

My point still stands that she is sourcing blog posts from Derek Smart for the article she wrote a week ago, and her current sources seem dubious at best.

I can paraphrase those reviews too and add in new claims on top of them to seem credible.

And I couldn't give a rats ass about Star Citizen. I just don't like Derek Smart because the man has been a public ass since 2000. As I have already said, anyone who has either been a space sim genre fan from back in the day, had the misfortune of playing of the many releases of Battlecruiser 3000AD, or was a part of Something Awful during those times can tell you Derek Smart is not a good person to source, not a credible person, and basically is the Tom Cruise of the gaming industry.

>>281709

>>281712

You're grasping at straws.

The crux of the matter is that this would require her, Vanderwall and The Escapist's legal team to be lying when they claimed to her and the Forbes writer that they verified this information internally. That's some heavy-ass shit.

There are two scenarios:

One: these employees collectively decided to come out and verify the claims levied against Roberts, both contacting the Escapist before of the original article and posting in Glassdoor.

Two: The Escapist is making all this shit up, dragging its entire reputation to the ground by lying about having checked who these people were and pushing even more lies about not having included two people because they weren't verifiable enough. And also lying about not having sourced Smart for the second article. All for the sake of a follow-up to an already published story.

>>281674

>Can't verify her sources

verify and sources staying anonymous are two different things.

>>281713

They could be wrong about the verification.

>>281713

Three: The two disgruntled employees Roberts recently let go decided to spill their salt to Derek and/or Lizzy, and then Scenario One takes place. Except verify would have to mean it is true. They could just have agreed and went, "Yep, that is what happened. Roberts is a mean, nasty man who is never gonna finish his pipedream."

I mean I feel like Lizzy and the new Escapist EiC are the kind of people where the employee could have flashed his resume and LinkedIn profile to confirm he used to work at CIG, and then said whatever the fuck he wanted.

On the point of legal, they probably decided since Roberts is an actual public figure (look up the defense against defamation when concerning public figures and what the legal definition of them are) they could say shit, and as long as he clears the air like he did, he can't touch them.

And yes, I believe Lizzy did a follow-up because she realized how badly she fucked up in her original story by sourcing Smart that instead of admitting she fucked up, she decided she wanted to double down.

>>281721

>The two

Seven. Seven people. Unless you claim that's another deliberate lie.

Dude, you checked NOTHING before you jumped on this thread, did you? This is what I'm pointing at. This doesn't look like you did any digging, it looks like you found some SC fanboys yapping and took their deluded word and ran with it.

>I mean I feel like

>they probably

>I believe

Do you have anything you can ACTUALLY POINT TO in order to reasonably suggest any of this shit? I don't give a fuck how butthurt you are about Smart. It really just looks like he picked on an easy target to troll, because fucking everyone's been pointing out how SC looks completely fucked since last year, he just kicked more dust about it.

Is your claim that the project looks to be "still trucking right along" something you actually verified yourself, or is this just another "I saw someone say this and ran with it"?

>>281728

Except Roberts recently let two disgruntled employees go. He says so himself on his own report.

Lizzy claimed 7 sources.

My point is that it looks like 2 employees went to Lizzy, told her what she wanted to hear, and she saw the other reviews and added those to her "anonymous" sources.

But no, stay mad because you all fucked up.

Personally, I don't care. I'm not a fan of Star Citizen, I'm not a big fan of GG or anti-GG either.

I just hate Derek Smart with a burning passion because the man has continually been an ass since the early 2000s. Every time someone makes a game remotely grand in scope and space sim related, he comes along going, "But I was making that exact same idea" and throws a shitfit over it. Then he proceeds to make his game, fails, and decides to sue someone.

He also gets into spats with people all the time, threatens lawsuits, and generally thinks he is better than everyone else despite, after 15 years and so many remakes of Battlecruiser 3000AD later, he hasn't made much better than the shit that leaks through Steam Greenlight on a daily basis.

My point is that Lizzy seems to have fucked up by initially trusting Derek Smart for her piece a week ago and is trying to save face.

But then again, you seem to be more mad at the fact that I said something bad about your ginger waifu than the fact that she more likely fucked up in sourcing Derek Smart, sourcing disgruntled employees who would have an ax to grind against their employer if they left on less than amicable terms, and in not waiting for some comment from CIG and just went ahead and pushed the article.

>>281732

>there are people who are actually serious gamergaters

>they actually fight for ethics in fucking game journalism

>these people are real and not made up

>>281737

You sound like you have way too much faith in a click bait journalist who cited Derik Smart just a week ago. They don't really have a reputation to stand on if you look in to who that guy is and the fact that he has a shit reputation.

Not even something awful believes Chris Roberts bullshit. Don't be dumber than Something Awful.

>>281759

Nope, but their "le gamergate boogieman" stuff and SJW-ish forum moderation is.

Don't be purposefully obtuse.

Disappointing that people aren't jumping on SC harder. Lots of promises, no delivery and all around censorship on their forums when people call them out. Now someone does in a lengthy piece and all I see is people doing reddit tier shilling for SC.

I would have loved a game like SC but Chris Roberts is nothing but a crook capitalizing on our hopes.

Gamedropping truly is the last gasp from desperate people.

Glad I didn't back it, a friend of mine did though.

>>281674

Yes, I'm sure Roberts had 9 clones of Derek Smart working for him.

>>281812

That would be funny if the opposite wasn't what's happening.

The Escapist wrote a one-sided hit piece against Star Citizen, and some people are calling on GamerGate to rush to The Escapist's defense even though the entire article stinks of bad ethics. Meanwhile, Chris Roberts wrote an extremely detailed open letter to The Escapist that explains everything and demonstrates why the article is bad, but we are only supposed to read a few out of context excerpts that will "hopefully" make it look like he is anti-GG.

Last I checked, GG was about combating bad journalism. Our job is not to defend bad journalism from game developers who are calling it out.

You clearly have not read Chris Roberts' response. If you are just going to read The Escapist's article without reading Roberts' side of the story then there isn't much else that can be done for you.

Derek Smart has been actively trying to sabotage this project for ages, and I think the Escapist needs to be called out for assisting him in his agenda. I don't care what Smart's "official" position on GamerGate is, because if he thinks he can use us as his personal army to trash a game that many of us are eagerly looking forward to, then he can consider me more enemy than ally.

>>281809

Roberts entire letter was shit flinging. In fact it would be incredibly easy to shut down any of those claims, a simple show of CiGs financials would do it.

He's attempted to cover up nepotism in his own work place, His comments essentially consisted of "who said that" or "No we didn't, I wont show any proof but no we didn't"

He is late, he's taken far above his kickstarter value, he's selling fake ships that don't even exist before his game is even a thing. He's Tim Schafer but the difference is people want SC to be a thing, I can understand that. But he's not shown a shred of proof that he's managing his funds correctly, he's not shown a shred of proof to debunk the article, at one point completely contradicting something the article was merely reporting on, lying and saying it was the opposite, which is Turbulent.

The fucking SC community is as bad as Socjus, it's a fucking cult-like religion of worship from people who desperately want the game to be real. Who's response to the Escapists article were to buy $2000+ fake ships that don't exist yet to support their beloved God. They are a cult.

As well, TenTonHammer weighed in on the subject as well http://www.tentonhammer.com/columns/respawn/star-citizens-latest-conflict-ex-employee-dissension-and-roberts-intervention

https://archive.is/bZsAK

Key quote, by no means the only quote

>"The Escapist recently ran an article highlighting complaints from various ex-CIG employees, some verified while others were anonymous, and then things got pants on the head retarded from my perspective. Chris Roberts engaged The Escapist personally, writing one of the longest replies to an article from a developer I’ve ever seen, including personal attacks against the author, and a rather aggressive approach. Meanwhile, The Escapist article mirrors the many emails I’ve been receiving for years about work conditions at CIG, which I believe is also where much of Derek Smart’s rhetoric has been coming from – since I’m sure the same people have spoken to him as well.

>Interestingly enough, this results in Chris Roberts blaming a lot of it on Derek Smart, but I can easily attest that the emails about work conditions and that rhetoric have been around awhile."

>>281815

Hey genius, Hit pieces don't tend to edit their articles to insert the targets reply.

>>281818

It was unprofessional of them to publish the article without Roberts' response in the first place. The damage was already done and now Roberts has to clean up the mess. There is no reason they could not have held off on the article until after they'd heard back from Roberts.

It was a poorly written article and they threw a band-aid over it after the fact to cover their asses. Roberts has a right to be angry over it, and so do we.

>>281821

They gave him a standard 24 hours to respond, he didn't respond, he didn't ask for an extension.

His response was whining, crying and complaining. He's provided no proof to any of his claims, he's late, he's over budget and you're very clearly a follower of his little cult then someone who actually cares about ethics.

His response, rather than to provide comment, was to do what LWs do by crying about how he's being attacked, denying without providing evidence, blaming the boogeyman and censoring discussion on his forums.

Wake the fuck up.

>>281674

This. The whole thing stinks. I dont trust Escapist that much, without more evidence the accusations are baseless.

>Roberts entire letter was shit flinging.

He was rebuking The Escapist for reposting Derek Smart's shitflinging. He is angry and rightly so, but he remained professional none the less.

>In fact it would be incredibly easy to shut down any of those claims, a simple show of CiGs financials would do it.

CIG is a privately owned company. They are not going to show their financials because that would be extremely irresponsible from a business standpoint. They release detailed progress updates pretty much every week and that is as much as I've ever expected from them as a backer.

>he's selling fake ships that don't even exist before his game is even a thing

If you don't like CIG's business model no-one is making you buy ships.

>He's Tim Schafer but the difference is people want SC to be a thing

If he was Tim Schafer the money would have run out a long time ago and he'd be begging for another hundred million bucks.

>>281823

>He's provided no proof to any of his claims

I could say the exact same thing about Escapist's article. They have nothing except the word of Derek Smart and possibly a few other very angry ex-employees who did not get along with the rest of the office.

You are bitching and moaning about me defending Chris Roberts even though "he has no proof that he's not guilty," even though The Escapist published this article without citing any of the persons of interest by name or providing any proof that their accusations were true. The burden of proof was on The Escapist, and they provided absolutely nothing. I have more reason to trust Roberts right now than I do The Escapist.

Chris Roberts is an extremely busy man and does not have time to read every email within 24 hours of receiving it. His job is first and foremost to make his game. I do not think it is ethical for The Escapist to say "you have 24 hours to respond to all of these accusations, or we publish a one-sided hitpiece about you." That is extortion, not journalism.

>>281816

>He's attempted to cover up nepotism in his own work place

I'm not sure but I think his response letter might be the first time acknowledging that Sandi is indeed his wife.

>>281826

Yes and he had steadfastly denied it since 2013.

>>281825

>He was rebuking The Escapist for reposting Derek Smart's shitflinging. He is angry and rightly so, but he remained professional none the less.

No he didn't, he was petulant and whiny and didn't actually disprove anything that was said.

>CIG is a privately owned company. They are not going to show their financials because that would be extremely irresponsible from a business standpoint. They release detailed progress updates pretty much every week and that is as much as I've ever expected from them as a backer.

And here it comes out. You are a backer, you are invested, you NEED this to be real because otherwise you are a sucker. It would not be irresponsible, it would utterly kill dead any of the complaints slammed against them. In fact, if it was libel, they should sue, but they wont, because then it would be cause for investigation.

>If you don't like CIG's business model no-one is making you buy ships.

"If you don't like what Anita is saying you don't have to watch her videos/donate to her"

>If he was Tim Schafer the money would have run out a long time ago and he'd be begging for another hundred million bucks.

That's what coming out with doodles on paper and saying "$2000 plox and donations are still open" is.

The Escapist has 7 sources quoted, two they didn't because as they said, they could not get sufficient proof. GG has always accepted anonymous sources verified by news outlets (and these were verified by the Escapists Editors and Legal department before the story was run) but now, because it targets something you are invested in, it's called into question.

Roberts has done nothing but take your money. You are exactly like the idiots who donated to Anita and swearing they didn't get ripped off.

Wake. The. Fuck. Up.

>>281827

I donated for their project back in the early days hoping for something but sadly these days it looks like they are not delivering on anything.

Its the people who are invested in this that should be the ones who scrutinize the most, but now it looks like these are the people who blindly follow.

This will hurt any big kickstarter projects in the future.

>Escalation of commitment

It's what a lot of the fans are suffering from right now.

>>281816

>He is late,

Nigga, Star Citizen is such a ambitious process and the level of fidelity and detail so insane, that NO ONE in their right might should have expected it done fast.

Obviously the estimated release date is bullshit, as someone is REALLY bad at making estimates (but then again, these kinds of projects are well known to have many delays)

As long as CR finishes the game and it's acceptable, I don't care about any of the drama sorrounding it.

An can anyone name one example of a developer giving out detailed financial documents? Of course they won't - no company ever does that.

I don't believe he's good with managing funds, but unless solid, concrete evidence pops up that all the investors are scammed, then such accusations are kinda pointless.

Anything that is asserted without evidence can be dismissed as such

Just cool your fucking jets and wait this out. Tim will tell.

>>281643

so how much money did you waste on sc?

>>281846

Nigga, Tropes vs women is such a ambitious process and the level of fidelity and detail so insane, that NO ONE in their right might should have expected it done fast.

Obviously the estimated release date is bullshit, as someone is REALLY bad at making estimates (but then again, these kinds of projects are well known to have many delays)

As long as AS finishes the series and it's acceptable, I don't care about any of the drama sorrounding it.

An can anyone name one example of a film maker giving out detailed financial documents? Of course they won't - no company ever does that.

I don't believe she's good with managing funds, but unless solid, concrete evidence pops up that all the investors are scammed, then such accusations are kinda pointless.

Anything that is asserted without evidence can be dismissed as such

Just cool your fucking jets and wait this out. Tim will tell.

>>281847

- "This is why we don't hear about games until right before they release. People are to stupid to understand good games take years of development. Imagine if we knew about the next Elder Scrolls the day they started working on it like Star Citizen. How many idiotic articles would be written about the impending doom of the game and Todd Howard squandering money because it takes them 4-5 years on average to make one?"

The only reason its taking longer than they first said was because the kickstarter didn't mention it becoming an MMO, people pledged more because they wanted that, and were sick of the shit tier crap that is only available right now.

>>281850

damage control is out in full force today. So I'll ask again. How much did you pay to shill for shekel citizen?

>>281848

>comparing Star Citizen to Anita Sarkeesian

See that little X up in the corner? You should click it.

>>281858

lawl stung did it?

>>281853

I am a backer, not an investor. I paid for my access to the game ahead of time, not a monetary return on my investment. They are releasing additional bits of gameplay as time goes on, which is what I paid for. They do not owe me a look at their books, because I am a customer, not a shareholder.

>>281860

The only thing that stung is how patently idiotic that guy is.

>>281856

"When the article went live, it included a note that CIG failed to respond by The Escapist’s deadline. Shortly after the outlet went to print, Roberts made public his email response, which addressed several points of the article. CIG tells us this was sent more than three hours before the deadline it was given by The Escapist. In turn, the publication claims that CIG only replied to its managing editor (who sent the request for comment) and didn't copy other staff members included in the email."

First paragraph of the article.

http://www.archive.pls/b/news/archive/2015/10/01/chris-roberts-disputes-veracity-of-new-inflammatory-star-citizen-allegations.aspx

>>281861

> I am a customer, not a shareholder

I'm not sure at that score, technically you are an investor.

>>281862

>The only thing that stung is how patently idiotic that guy is.

He was demonstrating how empty your argument was.

>>281856

>they did not want to comment on the article, they wanted to attack

The article itself was an attack.

Again, you are trying to reverse GamerGate's mission and get us to defend The Escapist from Chris Roberts' rebuttal. You already made up your mind which side you want to win in this internet spat, just like the game's backers have made up their minds.

The only way this topic has anything to do with GamerGate is that Chris Roberts invoked it due to The Escapist behaving unethically.

>>281846

>An can anyone name one example of a developer giving out detailed financial documents? Of course they won't - no company ever does that.

Any public company does that. Non profit organizations who take donations do it, privet companies do it to their investors.

You are none of those things to him, you are literally giving your money to someone who doesn't even see you as a invested part enough to show what he is doing with it.

>>281864

Do you even pay attention to the poster IDs? Then again this is probably your first time using 8chan, since you likely never had any interest in GamerGate until you saw it as a potential opportunity to turn it against Star Citizen.

>>281867

sorry too many windows open

>>281856

By the way, forgot to point out. Not responding when asked for comment and then launching an attack response is classic LW behavior. Quinn did it, Anita did it, Harper did it. Because by doing so you reinforce for your followers that you're a weak person in need of protecting, the mom and pop game dev studio who just wants to make dreams being targeted for destruction. You make your accusers look vile for 'denying you a right to reply' and your followers throw more money at you and, oh look, their followers threw more money at them following this article.

>>281858

>>281862

You're deluded, and worse than that you think yourself intelligent. Someone who thinks themselves intelligent doesn't believe they can be fooled. You refuse to accept the similarities because if you do, that means you can be wrong, and you're just as easily taken in as all the people you've slandered which wont do because you're supposed to be enlightened.

>>281865

No. It was a report of several verified sources, and we've accepted anonymous sources in the past that have been verified by journalists because some people need to protect themselves, it was a big speech at Airplay to.

I'm telling you to look at the facts, the fact is the project is late, over budget, has proof of nepotism that it attempted to hide, has given no proof that it can meet any of its deadlines and is exactly like Schafer, Inafune and Sarkeesian in people blindly defending it because they want it to be real.

You have invested time, money and desire into this project, and you are not fit to determine what is true and what isn't because like Anita's followers you will trust the words of the serpent you are being warned about, rather than anyone trying to warn you of the serpent.

>>281870

The more you post the more I am convinced that you are Derek Smart.

Anonymous sources don't mean bullshit, especially when there are serpents like you slithering around in the darkness trying to bring this game down.

>>281872

That's because you've drunk the kool-aid, and it's a convenient enemy. "Look it's Derek Smart. Look it's those gamergate misogynists. Look, it's the monkeys. Don't look at us, don't think, don't use those brain functions of yours. Just listen and believe."

The fact is I'm a nobody, I don't make anything, I'm just a guy with a keyboard who's been here since the Zoepost, and I can see you repeating the same cult rhetoric of our enemies and plugging your ears.

But go ahead, accuse me of being Derek, or accuse me of just wanting to destroy Star Citizen. In two years, when there's still not the game you paid for, when more non-existent ships have been purchased to fund development of a game you really want to exist and they just need a little bit more money to make the perfect experience.

That is on you. You don't get to ascend to heavenly nirvana for being a martyr. And Gamergate is not your army to destroy reporters because they happen to be bringing up dirt on something you've put money into.

>>281874

Chris Roberts never attacked GamerGate. You came here with the goal of turning GamerGate against Star Citizen, and I am telling you to fuck off.

>>281870

"trying to hide nepotism"

You realize that whole argument is retarded right? Its been know for a WHILE that Chris uses people he trusts. His brother is the CEO of Foundry 42 in the UK, and head of global production. That article only spoke about his wife, head of marketing, and she is doing a DAMN good job @ 90 million.

Chris Roberts replied to the editor 3 hours prior to the article being published, and it was STILL posted. How quickly could you write a 5 page report responding to bullshit allegations while also being a CEO of a company?

>>281875

I'm not trying to turn anyone against anything. I am telling you to open your eyes and use your god damned brain. I didn't say he attacked Gamergate, you keep pushing that line but I never said. I said he's running the same kind of cult money laundering Anita does. And you are too blind to see it, because you are in the position of the SJW shoveling over money saying "They don't have to prove anything!"

There's always an excuse. You can go on supporting them, you can even go on attacking the Escapist. But that is on you. GamerGate is not your army to follow your personal cult. you want to refute it? Give me some god damned evidence that they lied. And just remember when you run to Croberts response. Think of Anita, and Schafer, and everyone else who said "Everything is fine and on time." Without providing any proof.

But hey, Listen and Believe is alright when its for your pet space sim.

>>281878

For the last time.

THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE ESCAPIST.

They are the accuser. That means THEY have to prove that their sources are not lying. You are the one who is being irrational and idiotic like an SJW.

>>281876

Ah yes so that's why he adamantly denied she was his wife since 2013 because I guess he just felt really gosh darned embarrassed.

And from what I can tell, he emailed his response to everyone but the escapist, and when the escapist got his response, they edited into the article, and he still sounds like a lunatic.

>>281880

If their legal vetted their sources and CIG isn't suing for Libel, that's tertiary proof enough for me. If a libel suit comes up, things will be different, if I see a financial report, things will be different. But the accuser is saying "We have several ex employees and current employees we have verified but who have asked to remain anonymous." and the accused is saying "Well they're lying but I'm not going to provide any proof they are."

I'm going to go with the one who said they have sources. Especially since I've done legal and publishing principles and practices, and I know the legal fucking nightmare that publishing can be for a journalist.

You are the one being irrational, screaming and throwing their shit while plugging your ears. Not even considering that your glorious religion could be lying to you.

>>281881

>I'm going to go with the one who said they have sources.

I am going to go with the one who shows their sources. The Escapist won't show theirs, and the fact that the article reads like it was written by Derek Smart tells me all I need to know about who their source is. Chris Roberts and all of the people at CIG are a much more valid source than anything that smells as if it's been tainted by Derek Smart. This is not the first time I've seen a self-important twat on the internet trying to spread drama for the purposes of advancing their own career, and it's people like Derek Smart that made me feel that GamerGate was necessary in the first place.

>>281883

>I am going to go with the one who shows their sources.

Well then you sure as shit shouldn't be listening to Crobert who's source is himself. I don't think that's very reliable.

It's very nice that you have your boogeyman though, every cult needs one, and hey it's better than those evil straight white men.

>>281884

You're one to go pulling the SJW boogeyman on Chris Roberts when the accusations against CIG resorted to race-baiting. Social justice is an easy way to sell clickbait so it's no surprise that they accused CIG of being racist.

>>281885

No I made a comparison, And lets see that title again.

Star Citizen Employees Speak Out on Project Woes

Such a clickbaity title, I can totally see the SocJus just radiating from it. and, oh what's this?

Editor's Note: Updated with response from Chris Roberts throughout.

Please note that the RSI site indicates submission of the response prior to the stated deadline, however Roberts did not include either the writer or the EiC, both of which were included in the original email asking for comment, in his response, resulting in the delayed additions.

Why, they updated the article to include his response, that's awfully strange since they just want to slander him, why give his own words a chance to be seen?

>>281886

They updated it after everyone had already read it. Like I said before, it's a worthless gesture because the damage had already been done.

>>281887

And yet we can find a billion hit piece articles that don't address their responses. So either it's the worst hit piece in existence or maybe, just maybe, It's because he didn't include the EiC or Writer in his response, delaying it. And hell, they asked him for a comment. That's weird. Usually hit pieces don't ask for comments, because that makes it harder to sell your character assassination.

Reading the Escapist hit piece grants forum users a badge that implies SC will never be finished

https://www.red*dit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3n7ecx/reading_the_escapist_hitpiece_grants_forum_users/

No bias..riiiight

>>281889

I rest my case. What the Escapist is doing is plain as day and I for one think it's indefensible. Someone should be reprimanded for this.

http://voxday.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/the-90m-crash-of-star-citizen.html

Vox just responded in support of the escapist.

>>281892

Great, so now we've got articles sourcing articles that source anonymous sources. It sure didn't take long for the "new gaming journalism" to turn into the old one, did it?

Here is a rather illuminating post about The Escapists' "anonymous sources" for the article.

https://www.red*dit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3n6lum/escapist_anonymous_sources_uncovered/

Between this and the forum badge found here >>281889 there is really no defending Liz's actions. She should be made to retract the story and apologize, as well as the moderator who made the badge. If she will not apologize she should be let go, and if the Escapist will not discipline her then I take that to mean they were not very serious about integrity and reform after all.

>ctrl-f Derek Smart

>20 results

Roberts sure tries hard to twist this onto Derek Smart and "I thought you Gamer Gate people were for ethics why are you regurgitating Derek Smart".

Shits gonna crash and burn and no matter how hard you defend it, you ended up being taken for a ride.

>>281900

No matter how bad you want Star Citizen to crash and burn for shitposting fuel, Derek Smart's fingerprints are all over this and the man has been proven to be a sack of shit who will say anything to anyone if it gets him attention.

crazy idea, but is it possible that the following three ideas aren't mutually exclusive?

>Star Citizen is vaporware

>The Escapist wrote a shit article

>Derek Smart is an asshole

http://culteducation.com/warningsigns.html

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

The group/leader is always right.

The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused–as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

>>281906

You do know that more than one person can come to the same conclusion, right? I actually want the game to succeed, but it's fucking vaporware that sells $15k packages for non-existent virtual ships.

If you invested in it, I'm sorry for your loss. Accept it and move on, don't blindly believe.

>>281911

I paid $50. That is not going to break me financially and I've already had fun with the game. There are a lot of people who want to see the game fail simply because A) they want some drama to shitpost about or B) they think it's somehow un-just for an unfinished game to raise that much money. And then of course you have people who fall under C) like Derek Smart, a sociopath who thinks that knocking Chris Roberts down a peg or two will somehow assist their own ambitions in the gaming industry.

If you don't think the game is worth putting money towards at this stage, that's perfectly fine. Rooting for it to fail, spreading negative rumors and hearsay as if they are facts, and trying to police people who speak up to defend it is just plain assholish though.

>>281911

>I actually want the game to succeed, but it's fucking vaporware

>If you invested in it, I'm sorry for your loss. Accept it and move on

Shitposting like a Pro.

>>281917

In denial like a pro.

>>281930

So we DO have the option to abandon the bitch in the desert with huge man eating worms.

Where's the kickstarter for that?

>>281930

I have Foe Yay for Sarkeesian at this point.

I admire her as a troll.

>>281895

>Here is a rather illuminating post about

Did you just loop right back to the very first thing you were explained was bullshit, you tard? The quotes in the article were not lifted from there, which you can easily verify by just reading the fucking article. See >>281713

You keep talking about "revealing sources" as if that was something any journalist would do, ever. And you're grasping at the world's flimsiest straws by saying the Escapist is opening itself as a whole to a massive lawsuit by backing Liz up on her, according to you, wholly made up interview with five of seven people you claim she concocted out of thin air because… something something Derek Smart.

>>281931

This is the part that I don't get. What the hell is the problem here? How did you trolls spent over a year on this and are JUST NOW being introduced to the concept of verified anonymous sources? These are not anonymous tipsters, these are at least seven people all with the same story that the Escapist legal team had to vet, and if they fucked it up, are opening themselves to a massive lawsuit. There is a difference between taking the word of one employee based on nothing, and reporting that seven people all say the same thing about a visibly crumbling project that everyone can see is limping.

>>281944

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, it's ok. The coffee mug pic was used to prove that she and this "bandit" character on twitter were either the same person, or being a friend/alt of Derik Smart. The fact that she was drinking from a mug that had semen written on it while being a self professed feminist, was just icing on the cake.

>>281750

>>281703

They the are people who were taught to ignore bullies and they'll go away bs when they were kids

Which never works to quote IA

"Burying your head in the sand won't work you have to call these people out on their bs and say No"

>>281954

u fcking wot m8?

so if I take a picture of a mug that says "that means semen" does that mean I'm Liz's alt or a friend of Derrick Smart?

And Liz has never said she was a feminist.

Take your meds, you are going off the rails with each post.

>>281954

>The coffee mug pic was used to prove that she and this "bandit" character on twitter were either the same person, or being a friend/alt of Derik Smart.

A claim based on effectively fuck all.

https://twitter.com/istheguy/status/649651165261627392

Look at the fucking guy's feed. He's a standard GG twatter poster. Claiming that he retweeted Liz a lot being evidence of being the same person or nefarious conspirators is ridiculous. He took two people who came in contact due to shared opinions on an issue (i.e. just like most of us) and claimed the fact that they often agreed meant there was a conspiracy.

>>281960

If the problem you're trying to raise is that there's a possibility all seven were lying, you're not going to get any traction with anybody of note. This is pretty fucking standard practice: the article is written as reporting on their allegations, which is exactly how this is always done. Look at the language used. If you want to raise a stink about seven different people saying the same thing about their former (or current) boss which by all means looks to be exactly what it looks like… well, good luck with that.

>>281961

Isn't that Fart's current account? AFAIk he's been close friends with Liz. The claim is still stupid but they do have a connection.

>>281961

>This is pretty fucking standard practice: the article is written as reporting on their allegations, which is exactly how this is always done.

Except when its posted 3hrs after Chris Roberts sent his email reply to her editor, and she posts it anyways.

>B-but muh CC, he didn't CC everyone in da e-mail..

Fucking really? That's their excuse? Isn't she supposed to get the final "ok" from her editor before posting an article?

You also want to debate the "special" forum badge they made for forum users who viewed the article?

How about the fact that her "sources" were found by someone who just copy pasted her "confidential" allegations, and found that same shit on glassdoor, with 5 posts in a 4 days span just before the article went up?

In the end, she writes an article 1 week prior citing Derek Smart with his bullshit, then posts an article, which Derek linked to lookingglass on twitter 2 days beforehand, and we also have this "Bandit" guy linking picks of Chris's kids on twitter. There's a strange connection between Lizzy and Derek, along with this mystery "Bandit" dude constantly shitting on SC like Derek likes to do.

https://www.red*dit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3n6lum/escapist_anonymous_sources_uncovered/

>All those new updates

>3 out of 7 of the sources discredited

>Kotaku calling her article out as shitty

>Escapist very clearly shilling for Harebrained Studios, which is even more obvious fast on the heels of their Star Citizen hitpiece

>2 of the supposed sources wanted their identities revealed, but Lizzy denied that citing protection

On this note, if I was working at a studio were a CEO was racist and HR clearly discriminated, not only would I whistleblow and reveal who I was to give my identity credit, but I'd also encourage fellow workers or possible turned down interviewees to sue for discrimination. The fact that neither has happened makes me question the credentials of her sources.

Also, all it takes is a little bit of poison to ruin the whole cup of water. If even one of Lizzy's sources is not valid, it casts a suspicious light on the remaining 6.

>>281910

Which never fucking happens here because everyone hates each other.

That list covers everything you see from the anti gamergate crowds though.

>>281980

No point in posting now, Citizencon just started I believe so they are worshipping at the alter of their god now.

>>281985

Ah, my mistake, it's just some stream they have on fridays

>>281980

Clearly Derek Smart and Liz went back in time, made 9 clones of Derek Smart and planted them in Roberts' company so they could wreak havoc.

>>281987

I have a question for the conspiracy theorists, what does Derek have to offer the Escapist or Liz to write this article? How does that benefit them? Especially since Legal would have to approve of it, otherwise they'd risk a lawsuit, and the Editor would have to approve of it, otherwise it would never go up.

So unless I'm lead to believe this is a grand conspiracy of Derek Smart, Liz, the Editor, and the legal department who's one job is to make sure no one gets sued. What's the benefit for the Escapist? Because to the conspiracy theorists they're lying. So what are they lying to gain?

>>281993

The guy with the butthurt against Smart seems to be operating under the following logic:

-Grr, I hate Smart, grr.

-He has to be wrong about SC.

-He was mentioned in the original article.

-Therefore everything related to the second article must be wrong, because it'd mean Smart was onto something.

-The Escapist is going through a colossal nervous breakdown where they pile on lie after lie after lie about imaginary interviews.

Or something.

>>281995

For the record Smart posted on SA saying he wasn't talked to at all for the second article. So he's flat out denying being involved.

Which I guess to them only makes it true, why else would he say he wasn't talked to?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/14727-The-Escapist-Explains-Its-Star-Citizen-Sources-Vetting-and-Respo

There. Now shut the fuck up.

>>282001

Don't expect the cult to calm down.

>>281703

THATS NOT WHERE YOU PUT THE FUCKING GAFFE HOOKS YOU FUCKING BITCH REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>282012

Dude I feel you, guys didn't even draw her accurately and she's not wearing her suit for maximum water preservation(no hood), that worm is to tiny, and she seems to be traveling BY DAY!

>>281703

>>282016

Also, why is that guy so cute? It also looks like he's wearing stripped thigh-highs. Isn't usual protocol to depict critics of woman as fat virgin neck beards?

>>281674

>>only 2000

D&C anti-gamer shill detected

>>281701 I'll buy dat!

>>281703

https://twitter.com/GreyTheTick/with_replies

He's got lots of gr8 shit.

On that note:

https://twitter.com/RationalWiki/status/649667255178002433

>>281740

top cucks m8!

>>282022

Smart has a long, very long, history dating back to 1996. And its not good. I was finding random forum posts dating back to 2001 making fun of him and the flame wars he causes whenever you use his name, like some troll that magically appears.

Here's a brief history of the guys reputation trying to silence critics of the failures of his multiple games.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140217/10000126251/game-dev-derek-smart-again-responds-to-negative-review-making-vague-legal-threats-banning-commenters.shtml

>>282024

But what does DS have anything to do with Lizzy's second article?

And nicely done neither responding nor acknowledging how >>281980 BTFO'd you. But I guess crying about your boogieman and trying (and utterly failing) to character assassinate Lizzy is more to your liking than addressing arguments and having a rational discourse.

>>281929

>>angry joke really digs it

>>made by the same loser that fugged up Privateer

There were actually people that thought this would arrive?

>>282036

>The fact that she cited this clown in the 1st place already tarnishes her credibility.

Thank you for confirming my point: >>281995

That's all you are going from, isn't it? Your hateboner for Smart dictates that everything else must be a sham, and you're warping reality in your mind because the possibility that MAYBE Smart just picked a poodle to kick whom everyone could tell was going to shit anyway.

Everything else you say seems to be ignorant wankery derived from your a priori assumption that all of this MUST be a sham because anything even tangentially connected to Smart must be a sham. Those seven employees? Either made up or all lying. How do you know? Because Smart's supernatural aura decrees that everything in the vicinity of this topic must be false.

>So you wouldn't leap at the chance to talk shit about a company that you left/fired you under unfavorable circumstances?

Not every single of those seven people implies they quit. And even then, this is still "suspicion". You're picking a fight with the very concept of corporate leaks as if they were a clear-cut issue. You can easily claim with just as much evidence that they are telling the truth because you don't fucking know. That's why these types of articles are always framed as "employees declare that..". Because that's what's being printed: these people's declarations.

>These people would have been protected under whistleblower laws if they legitimately had evidence or emails about the things they are accusing CIG of.

Being a cock in the workplace and running a business like ass is not illegal, you moron. Especially when your "investors" are actually just fanboys and there isn't a firmly established jurisprudence on how to handle undelivered promises of vidya content. The only accusation that is anywhere remotely near to having a firm law doctrine attached to it is racial discrimination, and even that can be a bitch to prove depending on the circumstances. The suspicions about funds being used for private purposes are phrased as nothing more than suspicions even in the interviewee's words so embezzlement's out. Everything else is just Roberts being shitty at his job, which is shitty, but not illegal.

It's the same fucking dance over and over with you cunts, you start from the assumption that it's all false because you're either fanboys or seeing Smart makes you go feral, and then wonder why people are not following your train of thought when you source other fanboys and get the information in your accusations wrong.

You still kept yapping about the "copy-pasted" sources dozens of posts after you were told why that's wrong because you're not fucking listening or using an ounce of critical thinking. This HAS to be all wrong, so fuck checking carefully if it actually is or isn't, let's just reiterate the same thing over and over and hope it sticks eventually.

>>282046

You just proved my point, her entire article was just hearsay. -Click bait-. Good job. News worthy? Not really. But good job proving my point.

You never worked for a boss that was kind of an ass? Did you go to a reporter and complain about it? I bet not.

>>282047

You're comparing Roberts blowing NINETY MILLION DOLLARS in donations on a project that looks to be heading for disaster while STILL ASKING FOR MORE MONEY under the pretense that everything is going well… with simply having a crappy boss.

Yes, SC sinking is newsworthy precisely because it's a highly anticipated game that's still asking for donations from dumbass fanboys like the ones you quote.

You're just making random retorts now that make it look like you're having a breakdown and going "no u". What point? Your last one was supposedly that these people should sue because they totally have a case if that's true. Now you're claiming that none of this would be cause for anybody to care even if true. Before that you claimed that the interviews were lifted from the Glassdoor reviews. Every post is some new claim or accusation completely disconnected from the last one without any rebuttal for the responses you get.

>>282047

The article is actually the complete opposite of hearsay as its coming direct personal sources.

"Kind of an ass" is different then calling people faggots in work emails and more importantly mismanaging a crowd funded project people have paid a lot of money for that has no deliverable product.

>>282054

At least 1 of her interviews was a copy paste, the one about racism definitely is. You're entire argument is based on hearsay and the accusations of Derek Smart. Keep digging.

>>282058

hear·say

/ˈhirˌsā/

noun

noun: hearsay

information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.

"according to hearsay, Bob had managed to break his arm"

synonyms: rumor, gossip, tittle-tattle, idle talk; More

stories, tales;

informalthe grapevine, scuttlebutt, loose lips

"that's all hearsay, and I don't care to listen to such tripe"

•

Law

the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.

"everything they had told him would have been ruled out as hearsay"

At least look up the word before you call it "the complete opposite".

>>282060

You should probably have read that before posting it.

9 people, all of whom directly witnessed the incidents, backed at least in part by public record, saying the same story is not hearsay.

>>282061

Maybe you should have read it better.7 of 9. Two people couldn't be verified, atleast 1 of the 9 was copied from glassdoor.

>"Ideally, if you can get two people on the record saying the same thing, or at least three anonymous people saying the same thing, then the information is good to run."

You think interviewees cant be "coached" into saying similar things?

Cite your (at least in part)public record please. Unless you are just going to say people were fired/let go, of course that happens. The company has almost 300 people working internally. You think everyone in a company that big just sings kum ba yah together? You never met some who just hated your fucking guts, for no damn reason?

You think its hard for a journalist to find out which people in a company were recently let go, contact them, and entice them to give some random clickbait triggers to say? Think again.

If Roberts posted a dev update tomorrow from some tropical island with no extradition treaty saying simply "so long suckers", people who threw in heavily will still claim the game is coming and nothing is wrong.

>>282059

>At least 1 of her interviews was a copy paste, the one about racism definitely is.

That's one hell of a downgrade from claiming all this was sourced off the Glassdoor review. This is exactly what I mean: You're working at "Certainty First, Accusations Second, Verification Third (if at all)".

Second… so what? Maybe if you had stopped a moment to actually consider the accusation instead of running your dumbass fanboy mouth, you might have run into a bit of a snag: how do you know it's not the same person? Either both her AND her legal team are lying, or the same person who ran to an outlet to air this shit also post a review. Which one is more likely? Oh, I forget, Smart's magical aura MUST mean this is fake no matter what, so clearly the whole Escapist legal team must have had an aneurysm.

What the hell do you think it looks like while you keep iterating on multiple, increasingly-smaller versions of the same accusation that at the end still mean fuck-all if she interviewed them personally? It looks like you jumped face-in first to defend SC without verifying anything yourself and are trying to salvage it any possible way.

>>282064

So nine people, like I said. Thanks for agreeing.

Tell me more about how its easy to track down 9 different people and coach 9 different people to say the exact same thing. While we're here, tell me how jet fuel can't melt steel beams.

"Cite your (at least in part)public record please."

The game's been funded to the tune of 90 million dollars and under development for years now. There's no product, no release date, and the company continues to collect huge amounts of money from the public with no transparency where the money is going.

Anything else?

>>282065

There was nothing wrong with people reporting that an employee was suing Brad Wardell.

The problem was the media calling for him to be driven from the business on unproven allegations AND not reporting that the employee was being counter sued and had reasons to make up allegations.

Just like there's nothing wrong printing that a bunch of employees have the same claims around the management of the company, and hey this thing has been dragging on for years with no end date in sight. There's also nothing wrong with taking anonymous claims with a garin of sand if you want.

>>282065

For once, this isn't sourced of a single person.

Second, it's not sourced of a single person with a vested interest in swinging opinion her way. It's not like these employees are currently battling Roberts for benefits that they want to corner him into settling over. No one's trying to win anything here.

That's a pretty fucking hefty game changer. A single source with a vested interest =/= nine people, seven of which could be verified, none of them having anything in particular to gain. Kotaku didn't merely report on the employee's claims, they avoided mentioning the fact that their source had a great deal to gain from making those accusations. Then they skipped the whole "alleged" bit and claimed it was all true because Wardell could not publicly defend himself due to the legal kerfuffle. Kuchera at PAR outright called him "damned by the evidence".

Third, they actually printed his retort.

Fourth, considering SC's enduring pleas for shekels, this is currently very much of public interest. Knowing that a guy they don't know might have behaved inappropriately to his employees is not exactly on the same level as knowing that the guy promising you the sky for your money is funneling that money into a fire due to incompetence.

>>282101

Bingo, Leader. /v/ is eating this up because they want a second TORtanic with the oodles of OC that came from the first one so they latch on to every upcoming MMO hoping it explodes.

>>282101

>DerekSmokingGun

>Note that NONE of this are from Derek

You're losing it.

Your claim now is that the "third party" is interested in seeing the project fail because…

And that the e-mail claming Smart is not involved is a "smoking gun" because…

>This third party also happened to link to the glassdoor website pointing at the negative reviews of CIG just 2 days prior to the article being posted.

So WHAT? This is the last fucking time I'm going to repeat this fucking question: if those ARE actual employees, WHAT THE FUCK DOES GLASSDOOR MATTER? You just keep harping on this idiotic point ignoring that so long as the people interviewed were verified, the fact that their words are repeated in Glassdoor is completely fucking irrelevant. It just means they posted something similar there too! The initial accusation was that the sources were Glassdoor posts that could have been made by anybody, thus fake. That's the claim you ran with like a moron. Now that that has been beaten to the ground to the point that sustaining that claim requires the belief that a whole legal team has taken leave of reason by vetting imaginary sources, you keep scavenging for any glimmer of relevance and time and again finding none. Your initial claim is bunk, so stop fucking pretending that you're not incompetently playing catchup.

>This shit is sounding like a conspiracy, but how fucking likely is it that 9 random fucking people, 7 definitely from CIG, decided to step forward at the same time,

Right as media pieces bring the spotlight on SC and the Escapist draws attention to itself on the topic? PRETTY FUCKING LIKELY! Are you fucking retarded? Did you actually type that out without seeing that little correlation?

>Why the FUCK did she specifically say that NONE of these people came from Derek? Was her boss going to assume that she got these fixed witnesses from him? Was he expecting it? Why would she say this if she's just writing a regular unbiased article with no help? Explain this to me please.

Are you fucking insane?

Because the first article cited Smart, obviously. You sound like you're frothing at the mouth here.

>Welcome to the real world, where psychopaths exist, people have personal agendas, and vidya games take 4-5 years to produce. Gee, what a shocker!

Seven verified employees are stating something pretty much everyone watching the project's progress has been calling for over a year, and your takeway from that is a massive conspiracy and that SC is doing fine, no really. That's why their goals sound ludicrous and they just went through a round of "restructuring" which, unless you're a retarded Polygon employee, everyone fucking knows means "money's tight, everyone tighten your seatbelts".

You're tipping your hand by claiming the project's running fine, by the way. So far you could have made a flimsy claim to be merely concerned about the veracity of the sources, but actually going and claiming that the project isn't massively delayed and has little to nothing functional to show explains this. You're an overly invested fanboy. That's why you keep harping on the very same points over and over and why you're desperate to salvage them at all costs. You think evil psychopaths are attacking your precious dream instead of thinking crytically about the fact that SCn has always sounded like a pipe dream.

>>282101

Oh, one thing else. Look at this:

>>281997

>Which I guess to them only makes it true, why else would he say he wasn't talked to?

This was most likely a barb at you, possibly slightly hyperbolic.

You've gone and done exactly that. You just claimed that refuting the accusation that Smart was involved is a smoking gun about Smart being involved. You are living up to your parody.

And as a final point: you've spent this entire thread gesticulating like a madman because Smart was quoted in the original article. Your claims appear to be some insane conspiracy theory that somehow suggest a link between Smart and these sources. And now you're asking why would she clarify that Smart was not involved? Are you even reading this shit before you push the reply button?

>>282109

>>282112

>You're losing it.

>So WHAT?

>Are you fucking retarded?

>You're tipping your hand

>You are living up to your parody.

>Are you even reading this shit before you push the reply button?

Go back to your cave Derek.

Starfags are disgusting

Wherever I go on the internet I see them spazzing out and, if I may use such a cancerous term, brigading the threads about it.

The cult of scam citizen draws shills en masse,and I don't think they're even paid for it.

They do it for free and for their love for this game that is tanking as we speak

>>282116

>everyone who disagrees with me is irrational

Replace Chris Roberts with /pol/ and this becomes the most obvious /intl/ thread of all time.

>>282122

>/intl/

Wouldn't surprise me.

>>282139

Very much so. I think a lot of people were disappointed when TESO turned out to be a lingering fart, not an explosion.

>>281573

Is it too late to get my refund from backing Star Citizen?

>>282149

No it is not, in fact here's a helpful guide

Procedure To Obtain a Refund

1. Consider selling your ships instead, you'll likely get more money.

2. Send an e-mail to support@cloudimperiumgames.com

3. Request a full refund.

4. Explain that the game as most recently described is not the same game that you pledged for and that you no longer believe in the project.

5. Emphasize the lack of progress, CIG's own admission that the scope and nature of the game has changed, and the lack of a defined delivery date.

6. Alternatively create a sob story about medical expenses, familial hardship, etc.

7. Hope they don't decide to change their policy.

8. Kick yourself for spending enough money to have to do this.

>>282115

>"Someone insulted me on the internet.. It must be Derek Smart!"

>>282139

"The fact that that publicly available information backs up the sources actually makes them less believable"

You idiots backing this thing deserve every ounce of heartbreak you're going through.

>>282167

I didn't donate, and I wasn't trying to defend the game.

>>282113

Smart's been obnoxious and continues to be obnoxious but here's a secret:

There can be shitty stuff going on both sides of this debate. There are no supervillains and no saints in this world.

Forbes piece on Robert's seemed pretty reasonable to me: Too many decisions for one person to make and surprise: a team with too much money and not enough corporate structure in place doesn't seem to be producing.

I say that as someone who is a fan of both Chris Roberts and WC, but I am not stupid enough to invest into SC. An investment idea in which greed seems to have far outstripped common sense what with thousand dollar pixel preorders based on nothing but proof of concept.

People slamming the escapist don't make sense to me right now since they seem to have the least culpability for this debacle. Employees complained to them, they wrote a story. What am I missing? I couldn't be arsed to read the whole Chris rant.

>>282165

>>282165

> Don't Stop Believing!

Hold on to the feelin'

Streetlights, people…..

For anyone saying that an anonymous source isn't credible, please remember Deep throat and Watergate.

>>281815

This whole drama stinks really bad.

I don't like the idea that the first article cites CIG's competitor who has a grudge against Chris Roberts for it's reasoning that Star Citizen is failing.

And then you got the whole "rush it to prevent a clean up!" second article. What clean up exactly did they think they're preventing? More like "get as much exposure right before their convention".

People lie, and disgruntled ex employees lying about their employer is not uncommon, and CIG is a lightning rod for controversy because of it's fund raising success and ambitious nature. Claims need to be backed by evidence, even if the sources remain anonymous.

Yet I'm seeing a lot of Listening and Believing going on about this drama.

On the upside though, the salt from /v/ is going to be great when they're denied their TORtanic 2.0

>>282210

There were also Employees who commented, not just ex employees. They went into it in more detail on the podcast.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escapist-podcast/57500-Crowdfunding-Podcast

The Tl;Dr

TLDR

- FTC hit card game, due to failing to deliver on promises in campaign, involved in class action and FTC sided with consumers, determined that they had obligations, did not fulfill promises and had to compensate.

- Gravely concerning that failed projects cause collateral damage on other projects that they become worse that preordering.

- SC looks like it could be a catastrophic failure with 1 million backers

- Lizzy featured, stated backers have tends of thousands "invested".

- Looks and sounds awesome but that is all it will be.

- 90 million raised to to continuing crowdfunding post kickstarter

- DS posted blog posts (long ones) DS predicted firings because Austin office closing, and people leaving drew attention of Lizzy to possible legitimacy of DS posts leading to her starting an investigation.

- What struck lizzy was the changes to the terms of service which entirely changed structure of refund, release date

- Went from 18 months to delivery, yet it was Nov. 2014, and in 12 months from that you are entitled to a refund. The anticipated release date changed to 2016 and 18 months of that, so cut out people of refunds for next month which they should have been entitled to a refund.

- Original delivery date Nov. 2014, Feb terms of service new refund date MAY 2018.

- Major concern s- if you miss games delivery date by more than a few weeks esp. if you don't tell, anyone who wanted game and doesn't want it any more should have a refund due to a failure to meet an agreement.

- Liz checked for release date on website and IT WAS GONE or buried very hard to find, nothing was coming out.

- Inclusion of completion date mentioned in terms of service was up on Friday when the story went up last week and is now gone/buried. Seems deliberately obscured and dodgy marketing at best. (11:45 in).

- Wikipedia 2017 release date. Different websites have different dates.

- Images of original release date is Spring 2015 release of FPS, Fall 2015 SQ42 1st episode, Commercial launch 2016. And THAT is not kickstarter, but due to feature creep.

- Firings Concerning. Was 11,000,000 stretchgoal if the office is shut. People pledged for that office, what is going on with that?

- Some people are under definite impressions it is closing. Worth watching.

- Some people hate DS, smarmy bastard confirmed. But just being an asshole means facts can still be correct. DS personal attacks do not change the facts. Just because he pointed at the facts does not make it wrong. You don't need to like someone to recognize the truthfulness of the statement/s (15:00).

- (Lizzy) careful with sources and ensures that she worked around him. Any info she provided linked to document had second source that was corroborating it. Even with that, article was detached. It was amazing to see people being even unwilling to look at link because DS was linked to this.

- Suggests some people don't want to believe it as people had sinked $1000 in it. As of now, Liz has additional comments from sources all corroborating and bunch of new information (17:20).

- Still money pouring in feeding into this. Latest ship could be seen as DLC for $900. Community Manager there struggles with understanding the "excess selling off the inventory" of LTI ship that did not sell originally.

- As sources were anonymous, credibility is discussed. 1 anon. is interesting, but generally dismissed as crackpot. 2 Anon telling the same thing compelling as a matter of interest. Liz has 9 sources. 6 not anon. to Liz., 3 unknown to liz other than confirmed relationship to project. Liz confirmed true almost certainly happening. 9 could be considered lawsuit material.

- Could they be communicating amongst themselves. Name had been spread to get in touch with her, unsure what contact before then, none were speaking specifically to each other, though one had passed her name on.

- The idea that they had gotten together, concocted the story and then come to her with falsehoods is not at any point something that was conceived as reasonable, probable or possible. The impression Liz had is that they felt quite guilty about their role there. People from different offices involved.

- Liz got a lot of specific, independent stories personal to each one. There was a LOT of information that was intimate and personal that was even more concerning that what she had shared.

- Barebones essential on what everyone should know is:

>>282221

1. Allegations of mismanaging money (top) (CR/Gardiner paid for with company money, cars/leases and vacations with company money. Platform developed with Turbulent to make money with crowdfunded money being injected.

2. Reports of how employees are being treated

Irresponsible spending of money also mentioned. Hollywood A class actors for commercials for instance and 4 months of shooting with FULL A class actors again, unnecessary and something sources were concerned with.

- Point 1 (money mismanagement) is the public interest element of this story and the most concerning from her perspective. Embezzlement.

- Sources reporting COMPLETING entire sections of the game and CR would say "Why don't we try something different?" Utter disregard for advice of people who have been in the industry for 12 years non stop. They would tell him "No, this is not going to work, that is not possible, don't do this" but he would spend six months doing something just to prove that it is possible. It wasn't, then they would have to go back and redo it (26:18).

- Issue does not really need opinions, if this is proven, if CR and wife leased items with crowdfunding money there is no other word for embezzlement and a crime in the US. Unless CR has political connections, SC could set a good precedent for holding people accountable.

- What crowdfunding needs is an example, and CR could be it.

- Escapist views the Austin studio shudown as money problems.

- Gradual layoffs seems to be the technique ("eliminating unnecessary positions"). Terms being used are significant layoffs. 10 people = a department, not restructuring. PR is excellent from CIG and utter lack of people looking closely at the situation.

- A lot of jobs listed at the jobs all pulled (available 2 weeks ago, not now). People paid for that office to ramp up production.

- 2012 kickstarter said that higher cost of stretch-goals is to ensure that they would still make the game by 2014.

- Prior to KS, there was development occurring.

- CR was out of industry not sure what he could do with money and technology / CR may have thrown a figure out there without knowing what would be required or how to spend it.

- General commentary of CIG startup at kickstarter

- Studios take time to gear up, people can't work together immediately and affect production, assumption naive.

- Mistakes were made, circumstantially CR's movie studio was sued by Kevin Costner for millions - promised movie going ahead, then not. Breach of contract.

- CR compared to Tim Schafer who ends in in position where something takes forever to take.

- Liz - You can't sell me a car, then decide to make it a flying car and then not give to me because it's now a flying car.

- Many C issues raised fall under FOI act as matters are in the public interest.

- Internal environment bad - Liz - Personal insults very publicly, HR complaints and reports useless and HR was reporting to people that were doing it. Needs to be external HR department perhaps.

- Insults included questioning manhood, sexuality, race, competency all in a public setting. Some people became physically ill while working there due to the stress of it all.

- Discriminatory hiring practices also mentioned.

- Toxic work environment is toxic to project. Spending time worrying about how to word an email to your boss telling him that his ideas are stupid and not able to be implemented, that is hours of work time that could have been spent working on something feasible.

- The idea that employees were fearful of telling boss what they thought about the basic plans / If you can't say "I, the person doing this work think that this is unfeasible" and then have stress and fear that you will be targeted in a public email for questioning, it steps beyond management issue and goes into mental health and bullying territory.

- Commentary - CR/TS have previously been in charge, but never in charge of companies. Taking someone who has always had a publisher go free, and remove the control and this can happen.

- Hiring practices - Multiple people reported this and had been taken to HR. Sandi when advising people on hiring was to check education if too long ago not to call for an interview as they are over 40, protected and harder to fire.

- Incident where someone came in and not hiring her, she's a black girl. Other ones such as she has a hairy "you know" Liz struggled to include as it was so offensive.

- Read stories in links below.

- One area where people were uncertain is whether it is coming out, just that it may not come out with this company.

>>282211

Why would he do that? He gets lots of support from his backers, if RSI forums are any indication, and I saw a LOT of posts saying they're buying more content to give a big middle finger to the Escapist.

I don't think he has much to gain from releasing any documents. All that does is play into Derek Smarts hands, and I'm sure Roberts wants nothing to do with that.

>>282221

You know what I see in your TL;DR (I'm not going to check out that podcast)?

A shit ton of idle speculation based on words alone, with no hard evidence supporting it, with a lot of stuff being reference to Derek fucking Smart. The guy with a competing title that's super salty with Roberts. And is threatening a lawsuit over Star Citizen.

Pardon me if I'm a little skeptical.

> Issue does not really need opinions, if this is proven, if CR and wife leased items with crowdfunding money there is no other word for embezzlement and a crime in the US

And their proof is….what? If they, the Escapist, are going to make bold claims like that, get some fucking proof.

> What crowdfunding needs is an example, and CR could be it.

Ah. I see. The media wants a sacrificial lamb. Might as well go for the biggest one, right? Suppose when you're the top dog, everyone is gunning for you.

This seems more and more like nonsense, borne from conspiracy theorists.

>>282238

>Space Citizen

>Top dog

Oh yeah having not produced any god damn content far past their delivery date, having changed the entire scope of the game from what was originally promised, having changed the terms of service three times, the latest to deny people refunds until 2018.

This is of course, the actions of the biggest one.

Where is your evidence that the evidence provided (Two current employees, 5 former emploees, 2 sources they didn't include because they couldn't verify them) is from Derek Smart, or was fabricated. You're saying that the escapist made up 7 people and lied, getting it past their legal team who's only purpose for existing is to stop the magazine from getting sued, all so they could attack one guy who has broken all his promises and not managed to get a game out, who if they were lying, could sue them for Libel and reap millions of dollars especially with the damage claim that people asked for refunds off false information.

This is your scenario, it's a scenario in which many people will lose money for NO. GAIN.

>>282242

>no content

So you're not aware of the hangar, dogfighting and planetside releases?

Do at least some research before becoming the very thing you hate.

>>282251

Yes and what was promised? Oh right a spiritual sequel to Freelancer.

>>282253

You said NO content, and that is objectively false.

There'should twice a week video updates on the game's progress and FPS is coming out soon as they finally, FINALLY re-merged the FPS code/animations back into the main branch.

People who have been following the game know why it'seems taking, you know, more than two years. Development started February 2013 and they've since grown from 15 people to 293.

We already have most of the core game mechanics in our hands. Give them time to finish the rest.

>>282255

There's*

No idea why my new phone wants to stick full words after apostrophes

>>282255

> tech demo's as content.

Thank you Sir Shillington.

Not even the dead will know peace from this salt.

>>282255

>FPS is coming out soon

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-citizens-fps-mode-delayed-indefinitely/1100-6428528/

>>282255

So, when this game comes out, because don't get me wrong I fully expect something to be made. And it's a hollowed out shell of whatever they could piece together, not the seemless experience that they hyped up endlessly after deciding that simply making another space sim wasn't enough ego tripping.

Are you going to say that we should all be grateful about what came out and the piles of broken promises and the thrice changed ToS (which you haven't addressed once probably because it's very uncomfortable to talk about) was not at all indicative of the product initially funded or the one he hyped into your dreams…

Will you finally realize you hitched yourself to what was essentially a picture of a game and not a game itself. Or will you have drunk so much kool aid at that point that you'll hype it as the greatest game ever.

What has Croberts done to earn your loyalty. He made some good games for their time over 20 years ago and has had no experience since. He failed in hollywood and Wing Commander wasn't even a very good space sim, X-Wing was a better Space sim and it came only 3 years after.

It was an important game to set up the genre but it doesn't stand the test of time.

You can't even say he's like Inafune or Timmy boy who at least had some games under their belt that were more recent. He's over budget, over staffed in comparison to his estimates, put out nothing but tech demos that can barely be called games, pushed the release date back to who knows when there's a tonne of inconsistent sources, and frankly he sells ships drawn up in MS paint for $900. If I knew it was that fucking easy to fleece money from gullible idiots I would have changed industries.

I do not want this game to fail. Because I don't like seeing video games fail. But everything points to it failing. you have put your faith and common sense in the hands of a cult leader.

>Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

Don't you dare question Croberts he's our lord and savior and even though everything shows him to be at best, someone in desperate need of a publisher, I will accept his word as law.

>No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

How dare you question Star Citizen, how dare you point out the change in the ToS, the hemmoraging of staff in an office that was a backer reward, the changed scope of the game. How dare you compare it to the cult of Anita and SJWs and Tim Schafer and Keiji Inafune. We're not like that at all!

>No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

The budget is 100% fine, we've seen no proof of this, but the budget is 100% fine. Yes the Austin offices are losing workers but it's just being restructure. Yes that's corporate speak for shit going tits up but this time they really mean it!

>Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

You're all just haters in on it with Derek Smart to destroy this game! Derek Smart is the devil! I know this because Chris Roberts wont shut the fuck up about him.

>There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

Of course former employees would shit talk the company, they just want to see the game fail. Anyone asking for refunds is a traitor!

>Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

all those emails were faked and collaborated upon by Derek Smart and the Escapist to sink Star Citizen!

>The group/leader is always right.

Chris Roberts has a plan you'll see!

>The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Oh yeah? I don't trust those anonymous sources, you can't trust anonymous (said on an anonymous image board) and if Chris Roberts has denied them that's all he needs to say. He would of course tell us the truth. Everyone is just trying to take him down.

Good News! Star Citizen scores a 9/10 on the Cult scale!

>>282265

Oh yes, by the way did I forget to mention that RSI has now implemented Robots.txt site wide? So now nothing works with Archive.org

While of course, we use Archive.is that seems odd.

>>282269

>But these aren't just claims, they're straight up accusations of criminal charges with no evidence to back them up. It's also been proven that a lot of these accusations are false:

Source where, if you post that reddit link where elsewhere in this thread someone pointed out that literally only one of those 'all of these were copied' claims was actually on Glassdoor, not to mention the point of Glassdoor is for people to be able to give their experiences with employers, if someone took their quote and pasted it on Glassdoor after being interviewed, which seems likely, so yeah. Citation Needed.

>He already had that mansion from years ago because he's already rich

you know what I'll even let this one go.

>It isn't, some people in the Austin were moved to LA or Europe but the office is still open.

Yes, which is why it was said it was closing down, not closed.

>That was literally a stretch goal.

The original product they sold on Kickstarter isn't even what they're making anymore. why is a stretch goal more important than the original product?

>Employees money

I like how you only provide two scenarios there, and it builds into your conspiracy about your cults Satan.

>Then produce them

Then you would say "These emails are clearly fakes. The names have been cut out to protect identities." Not to mention, do you know what an ND is? Well an NDA is a non disclosure agreement. Which these ex employees and two current employees (you keep skipping over this fact because it doesn't fit your narrative) would have, which would mean that, if they complied with Chris Roberts angry hissing to tell him who told the Escapist, they could all be sued.

You have not answered how the Escapist benefits from lying, because if they are lying, it's an open and shut libel case and Star Citizen will get lots and lots of money. Why would their legal department allow that? Why would the editor in chief allow that? Why hasn't Chris taken them to court yet? I mean this could cost him millions in refunds, permanently damage his image, he's certainly entitled to sue. Why didn't he just post his finances which would shut down literally every accusation and settle the thing immediately?

The fact is, this is entirely in line with the SPJs guidelines for anonymous sources, they even went the extra mile of time stamping and detailing the exact process of checking their sources. So lets take a look at how CR acted and how the Escapist acted after the article hit.

After the story, The Escapist and Liz

- Updated with Christ Robert's response interwtined in the article. Not just amended, but put inside it with direct responses to the allegations.

- Posted another article detailing not just the times and methods, but also included information/sources they considered unreliable and did not include.

- Looking over Liz and Jason's tweets they've been calm, collected, and rational in the face of constant online attacks and what can be easily seen as interrogation and threats

Meanwhile, at CIG:

- They actually put a token black guy on AtV.

- They had current employees post testimonials

- Only one posted a positive review, and on reddit.

- Has made efforts to remove old articles and postings that have shown outright fabrications

- Have made efforts to prevent archiving of the past (see the new robots.txt for an example)

If CIG really wanted to try and discredit the Escapist, they would publicly remove the NDO from all employees, but that won't happen.

>>282260

>here is some more click bait

>i don't know what indefinite means

>please ignore the weekly progress updates on CIG website

>my bones hurt

>>282273

>you know what I'll even let this one go.

How generous of you to release your hold on a topic you cannot spin.

>>282281

Never stop believing.

>>282281

How generous of you to ignore literally everything else in that post you couldn't address. I wish I could have a room full of you. I'd be a rich man.

Did everyone already forget how SJWs almost hounded the company into the ground because of false sexual harassment allegations?

>>282314

That was Stardock you moron this is Cloud Imperium Games.

>>282043

>>dad200

ayyyy just noticed my ID.

>>282394

>A conspiracy on Romans

Now that is a story I like to hear

>>282395

Motherfucking sakupen.

Holy shit that was 11 years ago

OHSHI- CIG appears to be lawyering up. Lizzy & Escapist better prepare their anuses.

The Response has been updated.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

Seems like The Escapist pulled a KoP.

"then you verified a company an unidentified employee by examining his "company ID card with the name blocked out." You might be interested to know that CIG does not issue any company ID cards at any of its studios!"

Top Kek.

>>282543

Too soon,

I wouldn't put it past CR not know about employee ID cards.

The plot thickens, keks will be had.

>>282545

But the letter was from Ortwin Freyermuth….and if CR is the micromanager he supposedly is, and maybe is I dunno, how would he NOT know about ID cards?

Oh well. It's fun watching people still trying to defend that shitty article.

>>282558

In terms of journalistic ethics it wasnt shitty though, they didnt break any of the journalistic rules in the artilce, not much GG can do but watch from the sidelines. Shit's really entertaining though. SC fans are shitposting in /v/'s corresponding SC threads with 80+ posts and severe autism.

>>282559

Those are not employee ID cards, that's the card every backer got.

>>282561

My mistake then, I'm still interested to see how this court case goes.

>>282560

Why is it shitty though? Its reported on what some sources said.

Yeh it would be nice to have something more solid however, CIG is attracting a lot of heat and isn't exactly going out of its way to clear the criticism.

A retraction of the article would help somewhat but at the same time it looks like its quashing its detractors.

Sometimes free speech won't be to your liking leader. Time will tell if these claims are true.

>>282563

Most likely Escapist staff has to recontact their contacts and ask about the ID cards. Whichever side is lying about them its going to be entertaining nonetheless.

>>282564

I really do hope it makes it to court. Because then things like financial reports become public knowledge. CiG is either hoping that the Escapist will fold or they haven't done anything wrong

>>282566

If their sources are who they claim to be, Escapist doesnt have to back down at all. CIG will lose any lawsuits since Escapist itself is not responsible for the claims and allegations it published, since it didnt push them as hard facts and followed the journalistic process throughout.

>Demand letters in public with "We would prefer to do this behind closed doors"

THERE IS NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG STOP LOOKING DO YOU WANT TO GET SUED?

>>282539

The Escapist verified it!

>>282566

Come on. How does that gamble make any sense at all? If the claims are true lol no, the Escapist can stand fast and say "bring it".

They'll fold. I hope the email got stuck in the spam folder again, and they miss the 24 hour deadline.

>Escapist is going down

That's what they get for going pro gator

>>282574

I too hope it goes to court, I look forward to seeing CiGs financials and having that put to rest.

>>282576

What are the chances of this killing CiG and thus SC getting cancelled?

>>282577

Slim to none. CIG has a deep enough warchest that the lawsuit won't cost them much. The worst that can happen is the judge might say "they have a right to print sensationalist crap even if they weren't accurate in their reporting." They would bounce back, and ultimately it would be back to where we are right now, with everyone arguing over whether or not the game will actually get finished.

>>282575

If it turns out that The Escapist published a scandalous article using bad sources because they wanted clicks, then that is the opposite of what Gamergate stands for.

>>282577

If it turns out that everything in the article is true? Good chances, if it turns out it's not, then not good chances.

It's a game of chicken right now, The Escapist has not only written the article but an editorial standing by it, detailing their vetting process. If they back down they lose all credibility ever.

they don't back down, then CiG is going to have to show their financials and other claims in a court of law. And if they break off the lawsuit before it happens, then there's obviously something shifty going on. And only the most diehard will stick with it citing I dunno "they wanted to spend all their money on the game, so even with the slander they'll stick through it because true heroes."

>>282580

Very much this. If that's what they did, then they can burn with Gawker.

>>282587

I like how you didn't address that what if CiG is in the wrong. Because you're so brought into the cult mentality you can't even separate yourself enough to go "Okay, but if CiG has been lying and everything said about it is true. Then the Escapist proved real journalistic chops and showed that it has in fact moved on from the old games journalism style of click baiting. Also everyone who backed the game should get a bloody refund."

>>282579

>Slim to none. CIG has a deep enough warchest that the lawsuit won't cost them much.

unless they don't. Then this is all just smoke and mirrors.

>>282588

You seem to have missed the part where CIG's lawyers got involved. The Escapist accused CIG of engaging in illegal activity, and CIG has now officially demonstrated that they are willing to go to court to prove the accusations false, which would also end in a financial penalty against The Escapist if CIG is successful.

If The Escapist had simply gone with the angle of "some of CIG's employees say working there was lame, Chris Roberts is a hack and he is almost out of money," maybe Roberts would still be pushing this from a PR angle, but the moment The Escapist accused CIG of racism in their hiring practices, it became a legal matter. The fact that no-one is suing CIG for what would be such an obvious violation of federal and state law, while CIG's lawyers have been quick to spring into action against The Escapist's article, suggests to me that CIG has a good case.

If what The Escapist accused CIG of doing were true, then the last thing Roberts would want is to risk taking the case to court, because if he's hiding lots of dirty laundry that is where it would get aired out. He would have kept his head down and had no comment unless someone were trying to sue him and/or his company, but his company is now taking the initiative for involving the courts rather than any of the supposed "angry ex employees."

>>282593

All they have done is written a letter.

If CIG is dumb enough to let this go to court then CIG may be forced to open their books.

This looks like a lot of bluster.

>>282593

You know you're insanely interesting to read, because it's like the uncanny valley of human interaction. You're attempting to sound reasonable, but if you pay attention to your words it's as devoted as the most mouth frothing cultist.

You still can't say what happens IF The Escapist is telling the truth and you have been lied to by CiG, you can't even speculate on it. It's fucking amazing honestly

>>282593

>lawyers got involved

Lawyers often get involved when one party is trying to get the other party to back off. If you run a company that has mismanaged funds and you're left with less than 10% of the funds and nothing to show for it, what have you got to lose on spending the remaining 10% on lawyers to try and keep up appearances?

The way I see it, the kickstarter/internal fundraiser money is probably long gone and they're lawyering up to keep people funding to eventually get something out the door. Look at the comments on the RSI statement, people are posting shit like "Once my new credit card arrives I'll donate just to spite the escapist".

Roberts knows he has a mass of people who will back him all the way to hell or an early retirement on a tropical island with no extradition treaty.

Escapist just got blown the fuck out by CIG's response. Honestly guys, this hit peice was written in violation of numerous ethics rules. The fact that your dumb enough to support escapist in this is ridiculous.

Even if SC is a shitty scam or whatever this article is fucking ass and accusations of racist hiring practices and some dumbass derek smart quotes does not a proper hit peice make. Inb4 escapist gets sued into the dirt.

>then you verified a company an unidentified employee by examining his "company ID card with the name blocked out." You might be interested to know that CIG does not issue any company ID cards at any of its studios!

kek'd. Get fucked escapist.

>>282603

You're not getting your $299 back citizen

>>282604

>Came here expecting to find everyong shitting allover escapist for so many ethical breaches. >Find dumb kids easily swayed by journos to give up gamergate values to carry out kikestarter vendetta.

You can hate them both, anon.

>>282605

What are these ethical breaches then?

There's a KiA post from a butthurt "starecitizen" on the front page being brigaded/upboated by the Star Citizen Defense Force.

It's "OMG Breitbart is unethical!!!11!!1!!" version 2.0

>>282587

>on behalf of Sandi Gardiner

lol

>>282606

They spoke up against The Vision, that's almost as bad if not worse than speaking up against The Narrative.

>>282606

Giving RSI hours to respond, then ignoring the response they got in before the tiny deadline with a retarded "spam folder" excuse. also without even telling them about the accusations in the article, just with some questions that ended up being irrellevent to the claims of racism and such.

Not properly verifying the employees, letting them use fake id cards with the name blacked out as confirmation.

Not checking to see if any complaints of racist hiring practices at all had even been filed, since obviously if thats happening you should be revving up the lawsuit not writing some bs article with no citations about it, sue them into the ground if that's actually happening.

The fact that smart and his ex-employee friends shopped the article around to other outlets proved that they didnt independently contact escapist as they claimed.

Pretending derek smart is an "industry expert" who would somehow magically know CIG's internal budget despite being completely incapable of handling his own budget. God, Smart is even more of a kike than Roberts, turn on subtitles and watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7n29gEV18w

Everything he's accused star citizen of he does the same shit, the only difference is he's sad he didnt make money off it.

>>282610

>Derek Smart is against them therefore it's wrong.

That's 70% of this thread right there.

Granted, Smart is a windbag, a troll and a perosn I don't particularly care for. That doesn't invalidate anything he supports.

>>282610

>Giving RSI hours to respond, then ignoring the response they got in before the tiny deadline with a retarded "spam folder" excuse. also without even telling them about the accusations in the article, just with some questions that ended up being irrellevent to the claims of racism and such.

He said she said, I've known too many morons who can't use email.

> Not properly verifying the employees, letting them use fake id cards with the name blacked out as confirmation

This isn't verified yet. We shall see who bluffing here.

> Not checking to see if any complaints of racist hiring practices at all had even been filed, since obviously if thats happening you should be revving up the lawsuit not writing some bs article with no citations about it, sue them into the ground if that's actually happening

Hmm dunno if this comes under hearsay or eyewitness account. You might be right that this should be dropped as a point against Gardiner since there is no evidence.

> The fact that smart and his ex-employee friends shopped the article around to other outlets proved that they didnt independently contact escapist as they claimed.

Hmm thats probably a lot more common than you think. You may not like it but the content determines if its ethical or not, not how it was found.

> Derek Smart

He may be a cunt but it doesn't make him wrong. Doesn't necessarily make him right but an ad hominem against Smart an argument does not make.

>>282611

Read my post properly fuckwit. They said SC only had 8m left and cited smart/employees as an "industry expert". When you cite someone and it turns out they're a fuckwit, it doesnt mean they're wrong, it just means they're not right.

Basically the $8m figure should be taken as if some random street hobo had said it. It may be right, but the opposite may also be right but it's not a reason to believe it. When someone clings to something like this, it's because of confirmation bias. Basic reasoning, anon.

>>282612

Fair points anon.

>>282612

>He said she said, I've known too many morons who can't use email.

In fact, Dixie Carter massive idiot and current screaming harpy in charge of TNA Wrestling has an ongoing feud with twitter including e-mailing Terry.Taylor@TNA.com when they had never owned the email domain TNA.com meaning she was emailing no one when attempting to email her production people multiple times.

>>282615

An ongoing feud with email I mean, why did I say email?

There are more song parody's like this

>>282618

I was fairly certain I'd inserted this.

>>282610

>letting them use fake id cards

Curious use of plural forms there.

Anyway, nice narrative. It would be a shame if anything happened to it.

>>282587

Wasn't the problem with the deadline caused because Chris Roberts fucked up and instead of sending his response to Lizzy (whose piece it was) or the Editor in Chief (who would be able to prevent the story running) he sent it ONLY to the managing editor, whose job is essentially just overseeing a bunch of separate journos and then pass their work upstream?

Did he just do that shit AGAIN, and level the lawsuit at a middle manager?

I mean, I looked up "escapist editor in chief" and it seems to be some guy named Joshua Vanderwall. Took all of ten seconds, and I could be wrong.

>>282608

Ms. Gardiner, too.

Not like she's married, or anything.

>>282612

>> Not properly verifying the employees, letting them use fake id cards with the name blacked out as confirmation

>

>This isn't verified yet. We shall see who bluffing here.

From the Escapist's thing.

'Three more sources (CS2, CS6, CS7) were contacted on Sept. 27. One call started at 9 a.m. for 30 minutes and was Skype only. This was the caller who did not give his name, but verified employment with ID and pay stubs. Call #2 was at 2 p.m. for an hour and 52 minutes, while call number 3 was at 5 p.m. for an hour and one minute. Again, all callers were visually verified after the phone call via Skype.'

Verified with PAY STUBS. Does CIG not pay employees, or something? The ID would provide visual verification (in conjunction with skype), and presumably some sort of non-name signifier that is contained on the pay stubs. These three things would establish the person you are talking to to be a current or former employee.

Fuck, man. This isn't quantum physics.

>>282649

Well see they are simply lying because Derek White and they want to destroy the beautiful vision of Chris Roberts.

I don't presume any malice on Liz's part (although bias is obvious), but I have to say this was a shitty article. Verifying sources is one thing (and even then, it looks not all of them turned out to be legit), but verifying their claims is what's truly important. Especially when they accuse their employer of federal crimes.

Considering that her first article came from Derek Smart directly and all the sources came out shortly after, I have a feeling Derek might be playing her like a damn fiddle in his own personal shitfight with Chris Roberts.

>>282579

>Deep enough warchest

No one knows how much money CiG has because they refuse to tell anyone. Chris Roberts could have pissed most of it away already

>>282577

SC is already a dying project. This is just cherry on top of the cake.

>>282610

>Giving RSI hours to respond, then ignoring the response they got in before the tiny deadline with a retarded "spam folder" excuse.

Except the article got updated with the response 1-2 hours after initial release anyway. Nothing unethical there.

>Not properly verifying the employees, letting them use fake id cards with the name blacked out as confirmation.

They had phone/and skype calls where they compared the faces of the callers to the public profiles of these workers. All of that has gone through legal.

>Not checking to see if any complaints of racist hiring practices at all had even been filed, since obviously if thats happening you should be revving up the lawsuit not writing some bs article with no citations about it, sue them into the ground if that's actually happening.

Why not both? You think lawsuits happen immediatly? That shit takes time. It took several weeks for the campus to start a lawsuit against RollingStone after the rape accusations it spread were proven false. Why other outlets should wait to report on that until a lawsuit is made?

>The fact that smart and his ex-employee friends shopped the article around to other outlets proved that they didnt independently contact escapist as they claimed.

The fact they rehearsed their answers is not unethical conduct on Escapists part.

>Pretending derek smart is an "industry expert"

The article did not talk about Derek Smart once.

Honestly if you SC-fanboy faggots wouldve stuck around here since the beginning, you'd know the ethical journalism rules by now. If you think GG is going to hop into the rescue if you shill hard enough here, you dont know how GG really works.

Find something actually unethical and come back here to try and make us your personal army.

Also, paying hundreds of bucks for virtual spaceships is fucking stupid and you and all of your fanboy friends should be fucking ashamed of yourself for falling into a scam like that.

>>282577

SC is already a dying project. This is just cherry on top of the cake.

>>282610

>Giving RSI hours to respond, then ignoring the response they got in before the tiny deadline with a retarded "spam folder" excuse.

Except the article got updated with the response 1-2 hours after initial release anyway. Nothing unethical there.

>Not properly verifying the employees, letting them use fake id cards with the name blacked out as confirmation.

They had phone/and skype calls where they compared the faces of the callers to the public profiles of these workers. All of that has gone through legal.

>Not checking to see if any complaints of racist hiring practices at all had even been filed, since obviously if thats happening you should be revving up the lawsuit not writing some bs article with no citations about it, sue them into the ground if that's actually happening.

Why not both? You think lawsuits happen immediatly? That shit takes time. It took several weeks for the campus to start a lawsuit against RollingStone after the rape accusations it spread were proven false. Why other outlets should wait to report on that until a lawsuit is made?

>The fact that smart and his ex-employee friends shopped the article around to other outlets proved that they didnt independently contact escapist as they claimed.

The fact they rehearsed their answers is not unethical conduct on Escapists part.

>Pretending derek smart is an "industry expert"

The article did not talk about Derek Smart once.

Honestly if you SC-fanboy faggots wouldve stuck around here since the beginning, you'd know the ethical journalism rules by now. If you think GG is going to hop into the rescue if you shill hard enough here, you dont know how GG really works.

Find something actually unethical and come back here to try and make us your personal army.

Also, paying hundreds of bucks for virtual spaceships is fucking stupid and you and all of your fanboy friends should be fucking ashamed of yourself for falling into a scam like that.

Someone on /v/ summed it up really well:

>Game promises everything in the world with whipped cream and a cherry on top

>gets delayed multiple times

>kept alive through people buying ships, such as the 15,000 dollar "get all the ships" module

>devs are acting really shady as of late due to people asking why the game has been delayed

>rumors of problems with money and people being layed off start to come up

>Devs either don't comment or attack anyone who says these rumors, making the rumors grow stronger

>escapist makes a piece that would basically confirms the rumors, but uses anonymous sources, which are not the best trusted source of info

>Devs explode in a very shady way and try to sue escapist

>Escapist in shit because of shills AND because it uses anonymous sources

>Devs in MASSIVE shit because the allegations that Escapist published are pretty much the exact same as allegations that people have said about SC for years, and their response to the piece looks more like they are trying to blacklist these anonymous sources, plus since they are not willing to report on how much money they have, it all looks suspicious

>>282685

>All of that has gone through legal

That just mean they gave the article to their lawyers and they checked if Escapist can get sues based on it, and cleared it. "going through legal" means covering their ass. Nothing to do with whether sources are correct or telling the truth.

>Why not both? You think lawsuits happen immediatly? That shit takes time. It took several weeks for the campus to start a lawsuit against RollingStone after the rape accusations it spread were proven false.

The "victim" in that case didn't file any lawsuits or charges against her "rapist" and only responded to the press with their accusations, provided nothing to prove their story and the reporter never checked anything to confirm it at all.

>The fact they rehearsed their answers is not unethical conduct on Escapists part.

True, it's just stupid on their part to simply listen and believe their sources.

>The article did not talk about Derek Smart once.

There was a previous article with him as source, saying basically the same shit.He was after Chris Roberts for 20 years prior to this shitstorm. It's not a stretch to conclude he has something to do with it. I agree, however that he wasn't mentioned and irrelevant to that particular article.

>paying hundreds of bucks for virtual spaceships is fucking stupid and you and all of your fanboy friends should be fucking ashamed of yourself for falling into a scam like that.

I didn't though.

>>282693

That's if those allegations are true. If SC devs prove them to be false, Liz and EiC will likely be canned and unhireable. And Ghazi will finally have something to gloat about.

>>282689

This. It's even worse, since people are running to defend Liz because she shitposted on twitter in support of GG for a while and not looking at quality of her work.

>>282698

Those claims don't seem so far fetched to me. Let me explain with a hypothetical scenario.

Some guy is seen going to a specific spot and burying things once a week. Once a week, someone goes missing. His neighbor suddenly goes "He confessed to me he killed people and buried them there!" Now, his neighbor is lying, but someone's gonna go dig up what that guy buried.

This is how this whole situation feels. If Roberts decides to sue, he'll be forced to show CiG's finances in court. And if you ask me, a project where they're selling 15 000$ video game items and constantly pushing back the release date sounds like a vaporware scam to me.

And why would Ghazi celebrate?

>>282702

>Those claims don't seem so far fetched to me.

I agree. However, It doesn't matter how we feel, what matters is evidence.

>And why would Ghazi celebrate?

Ghazi will like to gloat over Lizzy failing to be a journalist in case this whole thing blows in her face. You know how spiteful those fucks are.

>>282702

>If Roberts decides to sue, he'll be forced to show CiG's finances in court.

Why? The threat was focused on the attacks on CRoberts wife. If it goes to court, they'll be focusing on the allegations of illegal hiring practices and discrimination. Finances wouldn't have anything to do with that.

>>282577

SC is already a dying project. This is just cherry on top of the cake.

>>282610

>Giving RSI hours to respond, then ignoring the response they got in before the tiny deadline with a retarded "spam folder" excuse.

Except the article got updated with the response 1-2 hours after initial release anyway. Nothing unethical there.

>Not properly verifying the employees, letting them use fake id cards with the name blacked out as confirmation.

They had phone/and skype calls where they compared the faces of the callers to the public profiles of these workers. All of that has gone through legal.

>Not checking to see if any complaints of racist hiring practices at all had even been filed, since obviously if thats happening you should be revving up the lawsuit not writing some bs article with no citations about it, sue them into the ground if that's actually happening.

Why not both? You think lawsuits happen immediatly? That shit takes time. It took several weeks for the campus to start a lawsuit against RollingStone after the rape accusations it spread were proven false. Why other outlets should wait to report on that until a lawsuit is made?

>The fact that smart and his ex-employee friends shopped the article around to other outlets proved that they didnt independently contact escapist as they claimed.

The fact they rehearsed their answers is not unethical conduct on Escapists part.

>Pretending derek smart is an "industry expert"

The article did not talk about Derek Smart once.

Honestly if you SC-fanboy faggots wouldve stuck around here since the beginning, you'd know the ethical journalism rules by now. If you think GG is going to hop into the rescue if you shill hard enough here, you dont know how GG really works.

Find something actually unethical and come back here to try and make us your personal army.

Also, paying hundreds of bucks for virtual spaceships is fucking stupid and you and all of your fanboy friends should be fucking ashamed of yourself for falling into a scam like that.

We are the new internet boogeyman.

>>282577

SC is already a dying project. This is just cherry on top of the cake.

>>282610

>Giving RSI hours to respond, then ignoring the response they got in before the tiny deadline with a retarded "spam folder" excuse.

Except the article got updated with the response 1-2 hours after initial release anyway. Nothing unethical there.

>Not properly verifying the employees, letting them use fake id cards with the name blacked out as confirmation.

They had phone/and skype calls where they compared the faces of the callers to the public profiles of these workers. All of that has gone through legal.

>Not checking to see if any complaints of racist hiring practices at all had even been filed, since obviously if thats happening you should be revving up the lawsuit not writing some bs article with no citations about it, sue them into the ground if that's actually happening.

Why not both? You think lawsuits happen immediatly? That shit takes time. It took several weeks for the campus to start a lawsuit against RollingStone after the rape accusations it spread were proven false. Why other outlets should wait to report on that until a lawsuit is made?

>The fact that smart and his ex-employee friends shopped the article around to other outlets proved that they didnt independently contact escapist as they claimed.

The fact they rehearsed their answers is not unethical conduct on Escapists part.

>Pretending derek smart is an "industry expert"

The article did not talk about Derek Smart once.

Honestly if you SC-fanboy faggots wouldve stuck around here since the beginning, you'd know the ethical journalism rules by now. If you think GG is going to hop into the rescue if you shill hard enough here, you dont know how GG really works.

Find something actually unethical and come back here to try and make us your personal army.

Also, paying hundreds of bucks for virtual spaceships is fucking stupid and you and all of your fanboy friends should be fucking ashamed of yourself for falling into a scam like that.

>>282685

>All of that has gone through legal

That just mean they gave the article to their lawyers and they checked if Escapist can get sues based on it, and cleared it. "going through legal" means covering their ass. Nothing to do with whether sources are correct or telling the truth.

>Why not both? You think lawsuits happen immediatly? That shit takes time. It took several weeks for the campus to start a lawsuit against RollingStone after the rape accusations it spread were proven false.

The "victim" in that case didn't file any lawsuits or charges against her "rapist" and only responded to the press with their accusations, provided nothing to prove their story and the reporter never checked anything to confirm it at all.

>The fact they rehearsed their answers is not unethical conduct on Escapists part.

True, it's just stupid on their part to simply listen and believe their sources.

>The article did not talk about Derek Smart once.

There was a previous article with him as source, saying basically the same shit.He was after Chris Roberts for 20 years prior to this shitstorm. It's not a stretch to conclude he has something to do with it. I agree, however that he wasn't mentioned and irrelevant to that particular article.

>paying hundreds of bucks for virtual spaceships is fucking stupid and you and all of your fanboy friends should be fucking ashamed of yourself for falling into a scam like that.

I didn't though.

>>282693

That's if those allegations are true. If SC devs prove them to be false, Liz and EiC will likely be canned and unhireable. And Ghazi will finally have something to gloat about.

>>282689

This. It's even worse, since people are running to defend Liz because she shitposted on twitter in support of GG for a while and not looking at quality of her work.

>>282698

Those claims don't seem so far fetched to me. Let me explain with a hypothetical scenario.

Some guy is seen going to a specific spot and burying things once a week. Once a week, someone goes missing. His neighbor suddenly goes "He confessed to me he killed people and buried them there!" Now, his neighbor is lying, but someone's gonna go dig up what that guy buried.

This is how this whole situation feels. If Roberts decides to sue, he'll be forced to show CiG's finances in court. And if you ask me, a project where they're selling 15 000$ video game items and constantly pushing back the release date sounds like a vaporware scam to me.

And why would Ghazi celebrate?

>>282702

>Those claims don't seem so far fetched to me.

I agree. However, I doesn't matter how we feel, what matters is evidence.

>And why would Ghazi celebrate?

Ghazi will like to gloat over Lizzy failing to be a journalist in case this whole thing blows in her face. You know how spiteful those fucks are.

>>282702

>Those claims don't seem so far fetched to me.

I agree. However, It doesn't matter how we feel, what matters is evidence.

>And why would Ghazi celebrate?

Ghazi will like to gloat over Lizzy failing to be a journalist in case this whole thing blows in her face. You know how spiteful those fucks are.

>>282727

The ethics in the piece remains to be judged. So far all Roberts has come up with is "Nu uh, we'll sue you".

If the escapist fucked,up, fuck them over. I'm not running to Roberts rescue because he threatened to lawyer up.

We are the new internet boogeyman.

>>282739

> If Roberts decides to sue, he'll be forced to show CiG's finances in court.

Since it was ignored before, I'll ask again. Why? The letter was quit specific that the action would be on the defamation of character over the allegations of racial/age discrimination in their hiring practices. That has nothing to with how their finances are handled.

I don't think CIG really cares about a bunch of detractors obsessed over their finances. But the allegations of illegal hiring practices? That's pretty damaging to someones rep. They're not gonna take that lying down.

>>282769

>Basically, it comes to this question, and I know I usually make fun of Ziggler but for once he has a point >>282689 , does Journalism itself just need to be overhauled? Does it need to change how it functions? It seems like even if you do the bare minimum of journalism you still get debacles like this and no one is happy.

I wish I had an answer for you there, Leader. I'm wrestling with that one myself. Can it be saved, or just burn it down and start anew?

>>282769

>>282769

>Basically, it comes to this question, and I know I usually make fun of Ziggler but for once he has a point >>282689 , does Journalism itself just need to be overhauled? Does it need to change how it functions? It seems like even if you do the bare minimum of journalism you still get debacles like this and no one is happy.

I wish I had an answer for you there, Leader. I'm wrestling with that one myself. Can it be saved, or just burn it down and start anew?>Basically, it comes to this question, and I know I usually make fun of Ziggler but for once he has a point >>282689 , does Journalism itself just need to be overhauled? Does it need to change how it functions? It seems like even if you do the bare minimum of journalism you still get debacles like this and no one is happy.

>>282769

I say, yes. Journalism needs a minimum standards and rules for handling their sources. Like it or not, they do have power and authority over people and that needs responsibility and accountability.

It isn't clear to me that the Escapist did anything wrong by publishing the grievances of former employees, and it isn't clear to me that they were negligent in confirming their identities. I would have liked for them to give the developers more time to comment and the opportunity to present anonymous counterpoints from non-disgruntled employees, however.

It does seem likely that the legal action being threatened is at best hot air and at worst an attempt to get the Escapist to reveal these peoples' identities, both of which seem engineered to make journos and devs fearful of whistleblowing.

>>282689

>Jesus Christ, this actually pissed me off.

i thought you operated in a perpetual state of misplaced rage

>>282769

I consider myself impartial because I care neither about Star Citizen nor the Escapist, and I don't know. I think it comes down to the question if it's ethical to publish what basically amounts to unconfirmed rumors. As far as I know, GG hasn't reached a consensus on that, and I'm not sure about it myself.

Finnegan should have given RSI more time to respond, but, then again, they updated their article when he did, so that's something.

Ultimately, I think this isn't a question that can be answered because we're unable to verify the identities of the supposed devs ourselves, so the only thing we can do is take the article with a few grains of salt.

Shit, I don't know. Does any of you guys think this would warrant an entry on Deepfreeze?

>>282964

>Shit, I don't know. Does any of you guys think this would warrant an entry on Deepfreeze?

I believe that given the current situation with the new story, Star Citizen should be investigated professionally and a deeper discussion should take place.

The kickstarter is way behind schedule and should have delivered more of a working product a long time ago. The general public needs answers, fast.

Anonymous sources aren't the problem, Nixon wasn't fucked by Deepthroat and his leaks. He was fucked by the hearings that started because of anonymous leaks and lied under oath. Get the folks in charge of Star Citizen out of the shadows and under oath goddamnit.

Here's some flat out legal for you all

"If he had stuck with the factual refutation, Mr. Freyermuth would have done well. But he had to go and (sort of) act like a lawyer. His letter is full of quasi-legal references, has a closing threat to file suit in both America and the United Kingdom, and includes a cc: to two lawyers. And so Mr. Freyermuth stepped in it.

Freyermuth is a founder, Vice-President, and in-house lawyer. He's a fact witness to what's going on at Cloud Imperium. When he writes a five-page semi-legal rant, he's just creating cross-examination fodder. Moreover, "look, I am referencing lawyers, and even cc'd them" doesn't convince anyone who knows how litigation works. If competent outside litigators are substantively involved, they write the threat letter, not the personally-involved fact-witness client. "Do what I want or I'll bring in our outside counsel" and "look at me cc'ing lawyers" is the "my brother will beat you up" of the business world. Freyermuth cc'd the head of the Litigation Department in the Los Angeles office of Cooley LLP, an 800-lawyer firm. Dropping his name signifies that (a) he's citing a big scary lawyer to seem serious even though the lawyer is not substantively involved, so he should not be taken seriously, or (b) the head of LA litigation for Cooley is involved, but has no client control whatsoever because his client is writing five-page rants, which means the client is not to be taken seriously, plus (c) if Cooley is actually involved it signifies that Cloud Imperium is going to spend a truly stupid amount of money to pursue a defamation case against a hit piece that doesn't actually impact its core function, right at the time that it's fighting rumors that it is in financial trouble. So: some messaging issues.

If you know what you're doing, you bring in the litigators before you start running your mouth. The litigator is there to tell you, in the most supportive and affirming way possible, to shut the fuck up. That way your CEO and key fact witness isn't writing long, angry emails about the facts of the situation, probably getting some of them wrong and probably saying things the legal significance of which he doesn't know. It's not easy to tell the CEO to shut up and stop writing things if you're his underling. Some people get to be CEO by having a Trumpian level of self-regard that makes Derek Smart look like Dobby the House Elf. If you're a sensible GC, you use your outside litigator as the bad cop to control your difficult executive. That way your executive doesn't do don't-take-me-seriously things like post angry messages referring to written statements as "slanderous."

Plus, while Freyermuth makes a fairly convincing case that the Escapist was gullible and incompetent, that's not the relevant standard. The company, and Chris Roberts, are almost certainly public figures, or at least limited-purpose public figures in the gaming world. That means they'd have to prove actual malice to win a defamation case. Constitutional "actual malice" doesn't mean ill-will, as Freyermuth's letter seems to imply. It means knowledge that the statement is false, or reckless disregard for the truth — that is, publishing despite serious doubts about its truth. Cloud Imperium isn't going to satisfy that standard.

https://popehat.com/2015/10/04/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-threaten-lawsuits/

>>283001

Not even Something Awful thinks this has to do with Gamergate, they correctly identify it as Robert trying to stir shit up. Not at GG, he doesn't care about GG, but to get eyes off his company.

I can't wait until this gets to court.

For the record, people keep saying this has nothing to do with GG. That's them trying to deflect. While this isn't an issue for us to brigade or campaign, it's very important the result.

If it turns out the escapist has done unethical journalism, then it's important we document that for future use so people know what to avoid.

If it however turns out that CiG has in fact done everything that the Escapist reported on, then the Escapist did some real journalism, and it's an example of GGs influence.

It's also another blow to Jason 'Objectivity is a silly thing to strive for' Schrier, who called it 'unethical' and attempted to dismiss it.

So in short

1. If the Escapist is unethical, we change our records to represent that, we do what we do as GG and spread the word

2. If the Escapist is not unethical, we have a real example of games journalism changing for the better. More than any ethics policy this is a win for us.

>>281929

also

>not click bait title is boring as fuck

>Eject! Eject! Is Star Citizen Going to Crash and Burn?

ok

>>283011

Not the article being sued over.

>Star Citizen Employees Speak Out on Project Woes - Update

But of course you would ignore that.

>>283012

I didn't, but the first article was what sparked the second one.

>>283013

The first article isn't the one in question here. You might as bring up the sky being blue for all the relevance it has.

>>283014

It is if you include what sparked it. The allegations of the first is that because something was happening at CIG, people got fired and some would say the thing is coming down. The second article has "proof" of it coming down (not really).

>>283016

But we are not including what sparked it. CiG is responding to the second article, their only focus on the first article was defamation of Liz.

Tell me, since you said (not really) I take it you believe the Escapist lied.

What happens if they didn't lie, and all of their reporting has been true?

>>283022

Fraud on the level the article accuses CIG of would mean prison time for CR and forfeiture of assets.

My biggest red flag is how closely the article reads like one of Derek Smart's unsupported whine blogs with anonymous sources thrown in.

>>283030

Jesus Christ you people see Derek Smart on your toast, don't you?

>>283055

I kind of does, Derek's approach from the beginning was "I have anonymous sources that tell me…".

But then you could say "how do you know Derek's sources are wrong ? Well he'd make claims that his sources gave him proof that CIG was in fact scamming everyone, willingly. That's obviously not what is happening, he also claimed he was going to sue CIG, he didn't, launch an FTC investigation, no one did. So yeah.

>>283055

Implying I give a shit about him beyond the years of lols at his expense.

This cow milks itself and I hope he never stops.

>>283066

He tried to publicly (on the CIG forums no less) blackmail CR to step down and hand control over SC development to him or he would sue. It worked so well for Alganon; kek.

>>283022

see

>>282649

There is no fake ID. It's a deliberate strawman of the process used to verify a single source, out of the seven. It's unclear if he was okay with his name being known to Finnegan at that point, or continued his reticence. The ID merely estblished him being himself, the PAY STUBS link his identity to his employment.

>toxic-bankrupt-sexist-rude And racist

Actually, racist and sexist weren't at issue, it was agism. A jism, yes. Not hiring people over a certain age because it was assumed they'd be too out of touch with THE BLEEDING EDGE of technology required by THE GREAT ROBERTS VISION.

>>283125

There was an ID with a blacked out name presented as identification which turned out to look surprisingly similar to a $8 security door key.

Under the light of one source being kind of shady, how easy would it be to fake a pay stub?

Not saying all of the sources are totally fake, just playing the devil's advocate on the verifiability of the identification process.

>>283133

I think it should be pretty difficult to fool a lawyer with a fake pay stub. There's too many things to get wrong for someone not actually part of the company it would be easily verifiable and, correct me if I'm wrong, it would also count as forging a legal document. Then again, whether or not CIG actually issues IDs to employees should have been easily verifiable so their lawyers might have just assumed someone wouldn't have gone to the trouble of faking pay stubs, which would be terrible practice.

>>283151

>I think it should be pretty difficult to fool a lawyer with a fake pay stub.

Lawyers aren't magic and they don't guarantee anything. All they can really do is check if the article is ok to print without danger of lawsuit, they don't go out and conduct their own investigation or anything.

>>283156

But yeah, all we can do is wait and see if it's true or not. Personally I'd only publish something like that is sources provided anything tangible as proof, emails, documents, voice recordings, etc, or at least gave any leads to dig further.

>>283151

I don't know much about pay stubs, but if they are like the stuff we have in my country, it would be pretty easy to fake.

Also, the Escapist lawyers probably don't have access to the info needed to identify a faked pay stub I think (like payment ID and stuff, they would need to ask CIG for that).

>>283160

>they would need to ask CIG for that

I guess that would make it considerably more difficult to verify if they were intent on preserving this person's identity.

>>283162

That's true.

But this also means it's not an 100% proof the person is really the one it's saying it is.

Still, I can't name a better method either.

It's not easy for the Escapist, but the allegations are pretty harsh - so they should have been more careful in my opinion.

https://twitter.com/WilliamUsherGB/status/651140892879777792

Usher will do an interview with one of the CIG devs.

>>283168

They did everything according to the rules. Again, CiG may have used a lot of bluster but it meant nothing.

>>282999

>>283133

Got a pic of the ID with the blacked out name? Because the name's irrelevant if it's a photo ID. On a Skype vidcall, it establishes the person talking is the same one on the ID, regardless of the presence of a name. It doesn't even need to be a company ID, which is what you, and possibly others, keep claiming. It just needs to have data - such as an ID number, present on my own driving permit - which is also contained on the pay stubs. In conjunction, these are used to show that I am X and X was an employee of Y.

Freyermuth has quotes on "company ID with the name blacked out," but I do not see where the Escapist referred to it as a company ID. Only that a single source who would not give his name in a call verified his identity with "an ID and pay stubs."

I've laid out how this can be done without a company ID.

Even discounting this one source - on grounds of it being too much work to verify, because you're a lazy cunt journalist - you're still left with SIX SEPARATE SOURCES, roughly twice as many as needed to responsibly go to print. And fuck, how many people does CIG employ at this point? If they're ALL disgruntled ex-employees, that doesn't invalidate their assertion of the company being in trouble and quietly laying people off left and right.

Techraptor did a piece on this:

http://techraptor.net/content/star-citizen-lawsuits-and-journalism-ethics

I was leaning towards the CIG side of things before, but now I'm not so sure. All I know is that Derek Smart is a shithead either way.

>>283175

> All I know is that Derek Smart is a shithead either way.

so long as this one universal truth is not challenged.

>>283175

>All I know is that Derek Smart is a shithead either way.

That is the only definitive fact in this story so far.

Would be hilarious if the paystub was actually the refund check for $250 they sent back to Derek Smart with his name blocked out.