Systemd

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File: 1416333496889.jpg (2.02 KB, 82x125, 82:125, 1415735638949s.jpg)

Systemd Anonymous 11/18/14 (Tue) 17:58:16 No.455

hey /gentoo/men I am kind of new to linux and I see alot of controvercy about systemd, I read on it and does not seem THAT bad.
Care to explain?

Also
>GLORIOUS FUCKING REDTEXT

OP 11/18/14 (Tue) 17:59:39 No.456

wrong pic and can't find what I wanted to post….

Anonymous 11/19/14 (Wed) 10:11:09 No.458

God kills a kitten every time you invoke systemctl

Anonymous 11/21/14 (Fri) 20:58:20 No.460

…

Anonymous 02/09/15 (Mon) 15:07:41 No.575

>>455
>Care to explain?
There are two major problems with systemd:
1.) It basically shits all over established conventions

According to Lennart Poettering:
>The shell is evil

Apparently, human-readable log files are also evil.

Now, this by itself wouldn't really be a problem if systemd were just yet another init replacement. This brings us to

2.) systemd is fucking *huge* and provides very shiny, attractive features that integrate into practically everything
And thus is very difficult to replace.

For example, GNU+Linux distros generally come with bash as the default shell. Now, if you don't like bash, you can just install zsh, csh, dash, fish, ksh, rc, etc and use that instead without any problems.

With systemd, things are a little different. If your distro comes stock with systemd, trying to replace systemd would be like trying to replace the kernel (i.e. it's not fucking happening).

Of course, if you like systemd, then that's fine, but if you don't, you'll have to either install one of about 3 systemd-free distros (Gentoo, Slackware, or Void), or move to another OS altogether (like one of the *BSDs).

tl;dr - systemd is turning GNU+Linux into MS Windows Lite™, and people are actually fucking happy about it

Anonymous 02/09/15 (Mon) 16:03:26 No.577

>>575
I'd like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to is Systemd/Gnu/Linux

Anonymous 02/09/15 (Mon) 17:15:01 No.581

File: 1423502101115.gif (2.99 MB, 640x360, 16:9, install-gentoo.gif)

I'll repost a great post from /tech/ on the topic of systemd:

>I found myself thinking about systemd while reading The Cathedral and the Bazaar, and I couldn't help but think what an absolute waste it would be to dissolve the bazaar model (seemingly in favor of "code de-duplication", although I question the validity of that argument constantly as well) and consolidating everything into systemd. I don't even hate the Cathedral model, as the BSDs are capable of doing it well, but trusting the Cathedral model means trusting in its Pope. I at least have some modicum of respect for Theo, can't say the same for Poeterring.

>There are other, significantly more flagrant issues with systemd, but if we're talking philosophy, this is valid.

Having read the Cathedral and the Bazaar myself and as a minimalist GNU/Linux user I really agree. Also his/her part on how Poettering is the pope we've got to place trust in is also very luminous. I sure as hell don't trust Poettering. And neither seems Linus or Raymond to a certain extent.

This is a problem,

and it's solved with OpenRC.

Anonymous 02/09/15 (Mon) 20:01:16 No.582

>>581
or it solved with runit their are already better init systems in place systemd is not it.

Anonymous 02/11/15 (Wed) 10:24:25 No.584

>>575
>>581
>>582

We're good for now, but what do you think it's going to be like 5 years from now when fucking everything requires systemd?

It's not bad now, we have OpenRC and a few compatibility layers like eudev, we can't use Gnome (which isn't a problem because Gnome has gone to shit anyways), but other than that everything is good.

The thing I worry about is Pottering himself. I don't like him, his philosophies, the way the does things, or his personality.

I fear eventually large projects like Firefox, Chromium, Virtualbox, LibreOffice, and a lot of crucial underlying software like SQL servers, web servers and such will require systemd. Oh look, today in system 298 we've merged your drivers into opengl-systemd, ati-systemd, intel-systemd, mesa-systemd kde-systemd, virtualbox-systemd, mysql-systemd. Then eventually most software will require systemd. Things might end up getting so inter-dependant that compatibility layers aren't viable anymore and no one is going to want to maintain a forks of all these huge projects, developers will have to choose and likely go with systemd because it has the most market share.

I don't like Pottering, he forces his ideals on the users and if they don't like it he says they're the ones with the problem, they're the ones that need to change. Just recently he removed a hard dri Fuck you Pottering. No one would have a problem with systemd if it was just an alternate init, but it isn't. It's taking over Linux, it's killing the UNIX philosophy (yes I know Linux didn't follow the UNIX philosophy, but it did to a good degree and myself and a lot of people like Linux because of the UNIX philosophy), it's killing personal choice, it's opening everyone to a fuck ton of security problems because it's huge and continues to grow. Few people are capable and willing to audit something like systemd and the problem is only going to get worse as it takes over more things.

/endrant slash question

Anonymous 02/11/15 (Wed) 19:43:33 No.591

>>584
Non of the software I use will require systemd. I would like to see them try and take over the market tho.

Anonymous 02/12/15 (Thu) 15:17:15 No.594

>>591
>I would like to see them try and take over the market tho

What do you mean "try"? Nearly all of the major distros use systemd now.

Anonymous 02/12/15 (Thu) 19:26:56 No.595

>>594
Not on bsd :^)

Anonymous 02/13/15 (Fri) 09:06:45 No.596

>>575
>It basically shits all over established conventions

Come on. This doesn't help anyone. You're trying to provide an explanation, but this is shit. How does it shit on what conventions? I've heard this before but this is all I've heard.

Your second point is better made, more like that pls.

Anonymous 02/13/15 (Fri) 16:46:36 No.597

>>596
>How does it shit on what conventions?
Unix philosophy, basically.

Unix:
>Do one thing and do it well
>And work with strings, they're pretty neat

versus systemd:
>Unify as much as possible into a single codebase (i.e. ACPI, logins, networking, event logging, job scheduling, the date and time, locale, device management, etc)
>Everything through an API, DBUS, or both

I can't wait to see where they go with it next. Maybe they'll integrate sendmail and a package manager?

Anonymous 02/13/15 (Fri) 23:46:59 No.598

>>597
They already started fucking up with your power management if it too low it won't boot up, and they started fucking up with how you do your encryption. Neither of those thing would surprise me.

Anonymous 02/18/15 (Wed) 15:43:50 No.611

>>597
The worse has happened it now your efi boot manager.

Anonymous 02/20/15 (Fri) 16:07:52 No.619

>>598
>>611

This might actually be a good thing, long term:
>systemd starts moving into the kernel's territory
>systemd developers start demanding changes to the kernel in order to support systemd
>Linus strangles them with an ethernet cable
>Some sane project takes over as the de facto init system
>Balance is restored(!!!)

Anonymous 02/20/15 (Fri) 21:02:06 No.621

>>619
or worse could happen and Linus is a sjw and has been supporting systemd for a bit.

Anonymous 02/20/15 (Fri) 23:10:20 No.622

>>619

Based Linus protects us for a few years, then he dies from a heart attack from having to deal with those idiots, after that we're fucked. Don't go Linus, I need you, we need you, the world needs you.

Anonymous 03/01/15 (Sun) 01:11:29 No.632

>>621
>>622

Linus' importance to computers has gone so far beyond what I could have ever thought

And I knew how bloody important he was before

Anonymous 04/14/15 (Tue) 16:56:44 No.726

Runit vs OpenRC?

Anonymous 04/14/15 (Tue) 19:00:36 No.727

>>726
Both suck it just figuring which suck least for you

Anonymous 04/15/15 (Wed) 06:10:18 No.728

>creating a systemd thread just so people on Internets will interact with you.

gb2/WoW

Anonymous 05/12/15 (Tue) 12:00:10 No.736

Is the classic Gentoo Linux corrupted with systemd yet? So I should get the Gentoo FreeBSD instead?

Anonymous 05/12/15 (Tue) 12:28:49 No.737

>>736

>Is the classic Gentoo Linux corrupted with systemd yet?

Yes, but seeing as it's Gentoo, you can just install it without systemd anyway (for now).

IIRC Slackware's maintainer said that systemd "doesn't seem like something [his] users would want", so that should work as an emergency backup.

Other possibilities (in no particular order):

>PonyOS

>Linux From Scratch

>Void

>(pure) GNU

>FreeBSD

>OpenBSD

>Plan 9

>Haiku

>Writing your own OS and kernel

Until systemd collapses under its own weight, I strongly recommend going with an OS that is not Linux-based - it's getting harder and harder to have a truly systemd-free Linux (hell, even Trisquel ships with systemd components, despite the fact that it doesn't use systemd as its init system).

Anonymous 05/13/15 (Wed) 15:50:51 No.738

>>575

This shit has been happening for a long time, Linux has been Windows for a long time. systemd is just the conclusion. Remember Avahi? Pulseaudio? udisks? D-Bus? Corba? udev? Linux has been Windows-like since at least 2002, and anybody with half a brain saw what was going on and is using *BSD, Plan 9, or a suckless statically linked musl and Busybox based Linux system. GNU has been bloated for a long time, Stallman does not care about the UNIX philosophy, and we are all fucked now that D-Bus is going into the kernel.

Join me.

Install OpenBSD.

---------------------

>From: Rob Pike <robpike@gma...>

>Subject: Q: moving directories? hard >links?

>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 11:56:46 -0700

>On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Skip >Tavakkolian wrote:

>> Linux has slowly become Windows-lite

>Except for the lite part.

>-rob

Anonymous 05/14/15 (Thu) 13:09:16 No.753

>>738

>we are all fucked now that D-Bus is going into the kernel.

Wasn't D-Bus just supposed to be a standard and implementation for communicating over sockets? What the hell happened? Why is it in the kernel?

>Install OpenBSD.

I like muh FreeBSD - it's kinda bloaty by default, but with a custom kernel and carefully-selected software, it's not too bad.

Well, that, or I've got Stockholm Syndrome.

Anonymous 05/14/15 (Thu) 14:01:44 No.754

>>753

You have Stockholm Syndrome. FreeBSD tries to out-linux linux.

Anonymous 05/14/15 (Thu) 15:31:52 No.757

Void moved from netbsd init to openrc to systemd to init.

Now I try to never touch it because none of the usual commands work. Not even service, it's completely fucked up and I don't want to learn a new set of commands for the 4th $#@! time.

Anonymous 05/14/15 (Thu) 15:34:06 No.758

>>757

s/4th/3rd/

Anonymous 06/07/15 (Sun) 22:32:19 No.770

>>753

I guess what I plan on doing is this:

FreeBSD - General Server OS because of things like Dtrace, ZFS, Bhyve.

OpenBSD - Laptop/Netbook OS. Free, Functional, and Secure. Though I do recommend building your own packages with ports.

Anonymous 07/20/15 (Mon) 13:36:06 No.785

>>757

Void uses runit and it will probably stay that way because runit is amazing.