/gg2/ - GamerGate2

>>131

>–Why should I back this project?–

Another good question.

>Because you want to try on the experience of dating a bear! Or perhaps you want a bear-dating sim to exist in the world.

You haven't sold anyone on the idea that they want to date a bear. And there's likely a infinitesimal amount of people that want something like this around.

>–Is this a sexy/adult/ero dating game?–

Please no.

>no

Oh thank god, I can only dread what would come from someone trying to write erotica like that in a dating simulator.

>–Are you SERIOUS though?–

If this person wants the money, they'd have to have some seriousness in making it.

>Yeah! I mean, I really do think that games as an art-form can teach people things, make people feel in various ways… but that's not the kind of serious I am. I'm serious about the fact that I want this to exist and I want to be able to carve out part of my time in my life to make it real. And if I can find enough people who want this to exist, I can make it happen!

Not serious on wanting to expand the arts, but serious enough to get up and create a game you're hoping will fund it and your life. Okay then.

>–So what do I get?–

Here follows the usual list of things you'd expect in a kickstarter. Only one thing pops out as being oddly unusual.

>$7 - A copy of the game for Ouya Mac or PC- Upon the game's completion you will receive a code/link for download of the game.

This shows the game won't be highly priced at all, so it's likely to be targeted towards people that will pay just because it's cheap. That's not the unusual bit though, it's that it's also coming to Ouya. Why is that?

>Double Our Fun(ds)!

Oh, that's why.

>We're participating in OUYA's #FreeTheGames Fund, created by OUYA to support developers making new and creative console games. OUYA will match your pledge dollar-for-dollar up to your goal amount (and a max of $250,000), so help us get there and make a great game for everyone! To be eligible for this match, we commit that this game will be an OUYA exclusive for a period of time. To learn more about OUYA, go to www.OUYA.tv.

Putting aside what I think of the Ouya, I have to say that it's distasteful to try and take advantage of this fund. The thing was set up for quality games to be made on their platform, and to stay on it for a certain time before it can be released elsewhere. So the PC donators are already screwed for a good while on this.

And why do you think this game needs such a fund? It should be a very easy time to get by on what you're asking for already. This smells of greed on your part, pure and simple.

>My reason for wanting to be on OUYA is partially the FreeTheGames Fund and partially because I'm such a drooling fan of games like Duck Game and Groin Gravitators and The Lickening and a bunch of other REALLY GREAT games. If this doesn't make it clear, I do obviously like silly party games a lot.

Holy hell, you actually admit it's for the fund. That's a pretty ballsy move to make saying that. Also, stating you like party games is only a smokescreen to what you just said, and it's not something that people need to know about on your kickstarter.

>>133

>Risks and challenges

Curious what you have to say here.

>A lot of people will immediately jump on the goal and say that it's too high. In my experience a lot of people on the internet are really obsessed with the concept of things eschewing from the air and being free. Sadly, this is not reality (but we are working on those 3D printers..). But I'll address some of the reasons why I need the money here:

Yeah it's too high. It's only a dating simulator, where you say you want to expand the options in it but only seem to say those options are in dating bears. Really, the only expensive part should be the art assets for the bears and writing, that's it. It's not like you're creating a new engine for this.

>1. I'm not some super well established game "auteur" so nobody's gonna buy my games blindly, regardless of content. So I need to know that I'm spending time and money on this project because there are people out there that wanna see it!

This is the most reasonable thing I've heard yet and I do fully agree on for any kickstarter that pops up on this site. But, you need to be very open on things and show something for potential backers to see. With no actual footage or work being shown on this game, all we have is a bare-bones concept. That's difficult to back for anyone thinking it'll be made.

>2. I'm super hungry. The Bay Area is expensive. I do the GaymerX thing for free because it is important to a lot of people. This wold help me be able to focus on creating things and helping people out and less on survival! (I live cheaply anyway)

Some people seem to think funding should only be for the game itself. Do they not realize that games that are funded are to fund the people making the game as well? You pay for art assets, that goes to the person making it, which helps their livelihood. Same with the programmers, writers, etc. So this is the second thing that seems fine, though the price is still a bit much to ask for on a dating simulator for bears.

>3. Making a game COSTS A LOT OF MONEY– well, it can, sometimes. It doesn't necessarily have to but this is kind of an opportunity for me to pay a few people for some code, music, art, and right now the market place is rough and a lot of people can't find jobs! So this is kinda my chance to help a little.

It's still a lot of money to-

Wait. You're going to hire other people to code, art, and do the music. So… all you're doing is writing? So you're not even making the game, you're just going to… write for it…

>4. Did I mention making a game COSTS A LOT OF MONEY? A unity license is $1,500, and $1,500 more if I want to make something for IOS or Android. That's 10% right there.

WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU USE UNITY ON THIS?!?!?!

This is a simple bear-dating simulator, it shouldn't require Unity and whatever licensing you need from it!

After looking at everything, it's quite clear that this isn't a game people should back up. There's so many signs of abuse in the system going on, from the funding to the lies being said. You're not making a game, you're paying others to do it, taking what's left, and then writing for it. And you're trying to take what Ouya has to offer as well.

You don't offer anything on what you can do, and don't offer things for the game to show potential backers. I hope that other sites have told people to stay away from this clear case of greed going on.

>Kotaku: I Hope Bear Senpai Notices Me…

https://archive.today/jUp0T

>Technology Tell: Bear Senpai – a bear dating sim – wants your money

https://archive.today/eaDpY

>Technology Tell: Bear Senpai Interview: Asking the Grizzly questions

https://archive.today/6zhgL

>The Daily Dot: Woo the bear of your dreams in this new dating sim

https://archive.today/30YUi

…Do we not have any responsible news sites in the industry?

>>135

>INCOMING DUMP OF POSSIBLE CORRUPTION GOING ON

But first, a quick talk on the sites that reported on this so irresponsibly.

The one site, Technology Tell, is the only one out of the three to actually do some talks with the kickstarter creator, but they don’t actually look into the kickstarter itself. All they do, much like Kotaku and The Daily Dot do, is see a bear-dating simulator and think of the article they can make with it.

>Is it clickbait for them?

It most surely is. When people see this on a site, it usually gravitates them into clicking it for multiple reasons. “Bear-Dating Simulator: Coming Soon!” Most any normal person seeing this would think “What the fuck? Seriously?” before clicking it to see more. It’s to bait these people to click on it so they can have an increase of viewers and clicks for their articles, thus, clickbait.

>Is it irresponsible of them to do that?

Most often times, it can be. A clickbait article can be of many things, but it must gravitate people into wanting to click it, even if it’s not something they’d normally click. Take for example this article:

>Kotaku: Peaches Sold as Sexy Butts in China

https://archive.today/9FwNS

Not something most anyone would be interested in clicking, but seeing the title like that, it has a sort of force to get a lot of people to click it. It also highlights that sites will go out of what they’re saying they inform on, for Kotaku it’s as “The Gamers Guide”, and talking about peaches in China. It has nothing to do with video games, but because it’ll give them clicks, they’ll do an article on it.

>This can be from a mild amount of irresponsibility to their viewers like here to… something even more.

I’m going to show you guys something I just looked into, and it’s not even that well hidden at all. Please note that more should be looked into it from what I’m showing you, but with this, it’s really something.

>>139

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1286005138/bear-senpai-date-the-bear-of-your-dreams/backers

This is who supports the game, Bear Senpai: Date The Bear Of Your Dreams. A few people of note here, but the most important one is a few scrolls down: GaymerX. Why are they important to this conversation?

http://www.patreon.com/toni

This is the Patreon of Toni Rocca, the kickstarter creator of Bear Senpai: Date The Bear Of Your Dreams. You’ll notice something really odd though on what it says in the bio page.

>You see, I'm currently running GaymerX as a full-time thing,
>I’m currently running GaymerX as a full-time thing.
>I’m currently running GaymerX

So Toni Rocca is backing up their own project with something that they're also running. That’s extremely disgusting to see this person pad up the numbers in this kickstarter with something like that. Anyone remember Areal by West Games?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1577656602/areal

It was reported they attempted the same exact thing with their own kickstarter, and it got suspended for it.

Some of you may be now asking “What the hell is GaymerX and why is it even important?” I asked that as well, so I looked into it.

http://www.gaymerx.com/

>GX, or GaymerX, is an annual convention focused on games – Video Games, Tabletop Games, Card Games and creating a fun and safe space for gamers and gaymers of all identities to have fun and hang out with like minded folks. Although its a “queer space”, what that means is that many of the panels revolve around queer issues or queer devs, and we stress creating a safe space, but GX is made for everyone and everyone is welcome!

>The location and exact dates will be decided after this campaign based on the funds raised, but it will be either in November or December 2015 in the Bay Area! The convention will run from a Friday afternoon through that Sunday, and all tickets get you in on all three days.

After reading through the material on the site and others, this seems like an okay thing. Though I’m not gay or anything of the sort, I can see why some people would see the appeal in it and decided to kickstart it a few years back. This is also backed by quite a few people as sponsors, the biggest on the list being Blizzard Entertainment. Past sponsors include NIS America, Electronic Frontier Foundation, and even EA for a few number of them.

So let’s put this altogether, shall we?

>Bear Senpai: Date The Bear Of Your Dreams is kickstarted by Toni Rocca.
>It’s being backed by GaymerX, a convention that’s getting a lot of backing and sponsoring.
>GaymerX is ran by Toni Rocca, the kicker of Bear Senpai: Date The Bear Of Your Dreams.

What we have here is Toni Rocca padding the kickstarter up with numbers from GaymerX, which means money from this convention that people have donated to and the people at this convention collected is being taken out of it to back this game up. It also backs other games up, so that’s more money out of what’s supposed to be spent on the convention they’re trying to fund. And sites like Kotaku are fine with reporting games without ever checking into it for stuff like this? Really?

GaymerX is supposed to be a convention that was kickstarted by other people for the convention, not to fund other people. That money should be going to the convention for people to go to, not other games. They’re collecting funds to get this convention up, so why are they funding other games with this money? And why are they funding games for people running this convention with this money? We need a statement to come from this convention on what I just got through looking at because, from how it looks, this is something they need to address, fast.

>>142

DO NOT JUMP THE GUN ON THIS AND LOOK FURTHER INTO EVERYTHING. BUT DO GET THIS INFO OUT AND TRY TO GET MORE PEOPLE IN HERE.

Some people have asked "Is this even something to get into? What's illegal about all of this?"

https://www.kickstarter.com/help/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&term=suspended

First off, through Kickstarters own rules on suspensions, it says there's there are multiple ways to get suspended.

>A project may be suspended if our Integrity team uncovers evidence that it is in violation of one or more of Kickstarter's rules, including:

— Misrepresentation of support, through self-pledging

— Misrepresentation or failure to disclose relevant facts about the project or its creator

— The creator provides inaccurate or incomplete user information to Kickstarter or one of our partners

— The characteristics of the creator account overlap with the characteristics of backer accounts that pledged to their project

— A party related to the creator is posing as an independent, supportive party in project comments or elsewhere

— The creator is presenting someone else’s work as their own

— The creator is offering purchased items, claiming to have made them

The first seems damn relevant here. Same with the fourth and the fifth one.


This is the kind of stuff that gets you removed from Kickstarter completely. It's the same damn thing that happened to Areal.

>>145

I've been archiving their backers page since this started and I could look into it.

https://archive.today/kzPQ7

Her it is at the 30 hour mark. It has 130 backers. Its funds are currently at $11096.

https://archive.today/fvLaD

Here it is at the 23 hour mark. It has 136 backers. Its funds are currently at $12989

That's a fucking $1893 difference in around seven hours, and only for fucking six backers? Really?

Another thing to point out - For the tiers of who backed what, only one person extra was added to the $80 tier, the second highest one. So that means the other five went to the lower tiers.

You guys know what this means?

It means someone in the kickstarter raised their money up a ton. So did a ton of people raise their money on it?

No. Not possible. The other tiers would've raised by a LOT of numbers, so the $80 tier would've been more than a single digit.

That means the $3000 person, the one donator that gave that many funds to the kickstarter, is the one that raised it by a shit ton more. How much more? Why, we can actually tell everyone that!

There's three new additions to the $14 tier, two to the $7 tier, and one to the $80 tier. So that's $136. Subtract $1893 from it, you have $1757.

The $3000 tier guy raised their money by around $1757. I can't see why anyone in the lower tiers would raise it by a few dollars at all without going for the higher tiers, but that's not possible since I've already archived it and it shows only six additions, which are accounted for.

Botttom line, the $3000 tier guy just added $1757 more to this…

>>147

I just looked into this a bit more with the numbers.

Each tier as follows:

6
504
442
245
1680

This is how much everyone BUT the $3000 put in. The $3000 is the only one that can actually add more into it since the other ones would move them up tiers, which so far hasn't happened, so they're paying a small amount.

So let's take all of this and put it together.

Everyone but the last tier = $2,877

That means everything else is for the $3,000 + tier.

That fucking means the last tier guy fucking donated $10,112.

THAT'S NEARLY THE ENTIRETY OF WHAT IS ALREADY THERE.

>>149

Something to add to the Unity thing guys for anyone wondering.

>4. Did I mention making a game COSTS A LOT OF MONEY? A unity license is $1,500, and $1,500 more if I want to make something for IOS or Android. That's 10% right there.

That is what Rocca says about the Unity Pro license he needs to get.

http://unity3d.com/unity/faq

>However, the free version of Unity may not be licensed by a commercial entity with annual gross revenues (based on fiscal year) in excess of US$100,000

I remember reading this a long time ago, but you don't need to get the Unity Pro license to make a game and even profit off of it. Unless Rocca is making this game through a company that makes over $100,000 annually, which isn't what is happening, he doesn't need to worry about this at all.

They state it's not intended to make professional games, the free version, but with what Rocca is doing it shouldn't be no problem making a VN on. The only real reason to get this for someone in his position is to get the Pro tools, and once more, he's only making a VN. It shouldn't be massively intensive with what will be going on in a VN about dating bears.

Seems like a clear case of Rocca either padding the price up so people feel a need to pay $18000 for the kickstarter, or mismanagement on his part not realizing he doesn't need to purchase Unity Pro, and if it is mismanagement, it shows he really shouldn't be making this game. He's willing to waste $3,000 on a license for a kickstarter making a VN that doesn't need to waste that much money, which could be going into other things.

>>151

Looking through the GaymerX twitter feed. They're saying they received angry words from both sides, which they're saying is both pro and anti GamerGate.

https://archive.today/OHIIh

I don't know if anyone actually said anything hateful from our side, but bad on you. It's not the organization that did anything wrong and I don't know why anyone would think that if they do. It's the people that run such a thing that are the bad people, and only if they've done something bad in the first place. Not all of them are bad. GaymerX, while I find odd, isn't inherently a bad thing guys. Please respect their space.

https://archive.today/VHCIM

This all started around four hours ago from their tweet, so from their last tweet, 13 hours ago, to the last, is when they say both sides started throwing hate mail at them and for them to just say "Don't go after volunteers, go after Matt" specifically aimed at GamerGate.

I would like to ask who's in charge of the Twitter feed to speak on behalf of everyone. Just some things I did notice going through their Twitter feed.

https://archive.today/RPHKm

They state they're not ProGG.

https://archive.today/YG7Xe

But admitted that some of their staff is ProGG. Do they not realize they're throwing portions of their staff under the bus by stating their entire organization is AntiGG? Honestly, they should not have taken a stance at all and just let it be. They're now speaking on behalf of everyone for GaymerX, saying their organization is against GamerGate.

The next tweets concern Rocca continuing to abuse his position of power through GaymerX.

https://archive.today/7lVjE
>(GaymerX tweet)

https://archive.today/Bt4vc
>(Huffington Post article)

First up is the twitter handle from GaymerX tweeting out Adam Baldwin and some things he's said through a Huffington Post article. Please note that the article actually updated with Adam Baldwin stating he was not making inflammatory remarks towards gay people but things like tax avoidance marriages, which if you actually read his tweets properly, you'd also realize this as well. I think it's more absurd that GaymerX would use their twitter account to voice this from out of nowhere.

http://i.imgur.com/605PVT5.png
>(Blocked handle)

https://archive.today/Wh5AU
>(GaymerX calling GamerGate supporters sockpuppets)

https://archive.today/xbgsP
>(Toni Rocca calling GamerGate supporters sockpuppets)
https://archive.today/jasZM
>(Toni Rocca calling GamerGate supporters a bunch of rampant, violent, misogynistic white supremacists)

And then proceeds to block people that don't agree with that opinion/calling them sockpuppet accounts. Pretty much, Toni Rocca is currently abusing his position of power as the CEO of GaymerX to push his own views towards his supporters and anyone willing to listen through GaymerX.

I had hoped that GaymerX would've possibly learned not to treat people like this, like how people treat others that support same sex relations. Yes, the irony isn't lost on me. I'm not sure why Rocca is even doing this. They (GaymerX organization) claim to be an inclusive group towards all peoples and are majority made to help support people of same sex relations, yet they have their CEO pull shit like this.

I want to make it clear, GaymerX and the people that work there are most likely not a part of these actual tweets going out. Even when they first got put into this debacle, some people wanted to be neutral and some supported GamerGate. It wasn't until GaymerX backpedaled hard when the Antis started hammering them for not having them all choose a side did they come out and being Anti themselves. Most of this is likely coming through Rocca using GaymerX as a platform for his voice, much like how McIntosh used the Feminist Frequency handle for his own voice even though most people think it's actually Sarkeesian.

>>154

Here is a link to a reddit thread about the GaymerX sponsors on this. Here's a copy of that thread with the sponsors that you can contact:

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2z3ej1/contact_sponsors_of_gaymerx_tell_them_about_their/

So I'm seriously pissed about this. I remember back when GaymerX had its first Kickstarter. I loved the idea: I'd seen LGBT gamers who'd felt stigmatized by the community in the past. I've never gotten it for being a woman nor seen anyone get it for that reason, but I have seen it happen to LGBT people, particularly gay men. This makes the fact that they've apparently turned to using the block bot all the more depressing. I've seen tons of GamerGate supporters who happen to be gay (I know right, what an idea) now blocked from their Twitter simply for following the wrong people. They don't seem to care about this at all - they, like many others, are convinced that it's because they're all harassers.

And frankly, I can't take this one sitting down. It's one thing for individuals to pull this nonsense. It's another entirely for a community group for a convention to do this. One which purports they support ALL gamers no less. So here's a list of all their sponsors and how to contact them. I'd like as many people as possible, but especially if you're gay or trans yourself. (I put an asterisk next to ones I think would be most receptive).

Gaming/Tech Sponsors

Blizzard Entertainment* (I would like to get in contact with Mark about this one too).
http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/contact.html
Camoflaj
www.camouflaj.com/#!contact/c18qv
Trion Worlds*
http://www.trionworlds.com/en/about/
Devolver Digital
http://www.devolverdigital.com/
Dogetipbot*
https://dogetipbot.com/
Coffee Stain Studios
http://www.coffeestainstudios.com/press
Salsa Bear Studios
http://www.salsabearstudios.com/company.html
Yaoi 911
http://webcomics.yaoi911.com/email-alex/
Game Church*
http://gamechurch.com/contact-us/
Pyrodactyl
http://pyrodactyl.com/
Nostis Productions
http://noctis-productions.com/contact/
Events for Gamers
http://www.eventsforgamers.com/

Activism Sponsors

Northwest Network
http://nwnetwork.org/contact/
The Trevor Project
http://www.thetrevorproject.org/

Other Sponsors

Voice of Geeks Network
http://www.vognetwork.com/contact/
FurCon
http://www.furtherconfusion.org/contact/
AOD Con
http://www.aodsf.org/contact/
Contact Page for GaymerX
http://gaymerx.com/contact/

What should your letter include? Briefly explain who YOU are and then explain the situation: basically that GaymerX has installed an autoblocker without consideration of fans and attendees on the list, have not done their research on the topic, and have seemingly ignored people who have tried to point this out to them. They've actively discluded potentially thousands from their community. For the activist sponsors especially, point out how it discludes LGBT and minorities by blocking so haphazardly.

I'm incredibly disappointed in GaymerX. I really thought they had something and would stay out of the politics of everything but they decided to dive in. I don't want gaymers to be represented by such a bigoted company. (Personally, I wouldn't bring up the Randi Harper stuff, since aside from creating the autoblocker, not sure she's relevant. Too many degrees of separation. Focus on what GaymerX did.)

Some other resources to consider:

Chris Mancil, arguably where this started, works for EA, which has attended GaymerX before.
https://archive.today/LMjLN
The autoblocker is used as a sort of unofficial industry blacklist.
http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2015/03/gamergate-indie-devs-blocked-by-jobs-resource-bot-using-gg-autoblocker/
BUT it is poorly coded and tends to block people who it shouldn't.
https://medium.com/@veilovtheabyss/the-farce-that-is-ggautoblocker-566d8d0f90fe
This has resulted in professionals, leaders, analysts and KFC being blocked. It is an irresponsible tool for any company to use.
http://chrisvoncsefalvay.com/2015/01/16/a-footnote-on-gamergate.html

Mention (ESPECIALLY TO BLIZZARD) that this autoblocker has blocked giants in the industry such as Mark Kern, and that it effectively blocks the convention off from huge names in gaming.

>>156

https://archive.today/i12nF

>"Everyone games, so let’s game together! @GaymerX offers a harassment free space for ALL:"

Yes, a harassment free space for everyone, only so long as you're the "right" kind of person. The comments that follow that tweet are pretty entertaining. Also, I'm having difficulties finding that original tweet for some reason.

http://iq.intel.com/gaymers-create-a-safe-place-to-play-for-everyone/
https://archive.today/nz0On

Intel comes out with trying to say it's about helping diversity among the LGBT people. Which does sound nice and all, but how exactly is it diverse if they're only allowing the "right" kind of gay person there?

https://www.facebook.com/GaymerConnect/posts/887999171257314
https://archive.today/K71cl

GaymerX would just prefer saying they like how diverse Intel is, and to do that you need to be against GamerGate…

Please note that the Facebook post was in January of this year, but everything else was recent that was surprisingly missed by us. Maybe this is why Rocca feels it's fine to shit on people? Because he feels with the backing of Intel that makes them big enough to do that?

>>160

For anyone wanting an archive of everything here, here is a pastebin to all the info plus more on it along with an archive of the pastebin. You can also find some of Toni Rocca's past in there as well that he had tried to hide and keeps trying to push away as if that's not him (it is).

http://pastebin.com/PLQKWSdk
https://archive.today/AsyNe

So with all that out of the way, sucks that the original board got killed off. I'm not sure if this is where we'll be from now on, but I felt it would be a good idea to have something posted up to get over the stupid bullshit that Blade pulled. Don't know what I'm talking about?

Here: https://8ch.net/metagamergate/res/279.html
And an archive: https://archive.today/EpQ6h

Hope everyone's doing okay and we can try to either move here or get a new board up and running soon.

Whoop-Whoop!