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File: 1453426454879-0.jpg (111.77 KB, 640x480, 4:3, Title-Page.jpg)

File: 1453426454879-1.jpg (44.47 KB, 270x480, 9:16, Morning-Smile.jpg)

 No.8739

Here's a demo of a 3D art game following the exploits of an elven schoolgirl. Nice artwork!

http://www.ulmf.org/bbs/showthread.php?p=784707#post784707

https://mega.nz/#!bBIVVIyb!Gi8LD2ekieF0ZKlvg69xD_a_FkxojR3o_TjWIK7ZOJE

 No.8751

File: 1453436148435.gif (3.77 MB, 338x151, 338:151, de4.gif)

>Makes new thread about game even though there's one on the catalog.

>ULMF link leads to a random post by the creator.

I played the game for about 15 minutes before I got bored, using RPG Maker might have been a bad decision. And while the graphics look nice enough, they don't particularly stand out.

There, you want a reply in one of your threads, you got one.


 No.8773

The corruption aspect seems to be happening retardedly fast. The bitch protagonist motif has potential but it's not hot when there's barely any struggle before she's getting vaporlocked by a million dicks. And considering she gets fucked for the first time and gives her first blowjob in the very beginning of the game just to establish the plot, I doubt this'll ever be improved upon.


 No.8781

Oh hey you deleted your shameless shilling of your own patreon this time. Kudos.


 No.10009

Wow what a chilly reception. All the guy did was post his stupid patron link and everyone here jumps on him as if he was some kind of ass goblin peddling illegal steroids to retarded kids.

In theory, this game could raise heads, as to be quite frank, I really dig the art and model, but it needs to be remade from scratch IMO.

This would have been great if it was a focused dungeon crawler with combat rape, virginity flags, gradual corruption, body modification (slowly turning into a dark elf), etc. Gamers want an actual game not this linear visual novel type stuff with zero replayability.

Games like Dungeons and Prisoners, Princess Sacrifice, Lilitales, Virgin Island, Sacred Eyes, should serve as a model.


 No.10012

File: 1456113751500.jpg (97.57 KB, 400x939, 400:939, b74.jpg)

>>10009

>Posting any paetron link

>On an image board that encourages development of H-games not for personal profit.

It's like showing your skyrim mod on /v/ then posting a link to the steam page where you have to pay for it.

Paetron is cancer.


 No.10020

>>10012

It might not be as easy as you make it out to be. Imagine someone with the will and ability to create something awesome, but lacks the time or money, or funds to create it. This is a serious problem and there has yet to be made a satisfactory solution. Patreon offers the possibility for the service to be free and in its best sense can be compared to a tip jar, by which talented people have the possibility to make enough money to live from what they are good at.

Two things that might make you think about even the most debatable practices on Patreon, like user generated content or content commissioning:

During the Baroque era up until the romantic period it was common practice for a virtuoso musicians to improvise on themes that were suggested by the public during performance. In a sense, Beethoven's Diabelli Variation is comparable to user generated content. Also, some of the most esteemed artworks of our occidental world were in fact commissioned. Now we hold them very dear, and not despite the creation process involved but also due to it. Limitations can benefit the human creation process and likewise it can be argued that without limitations there would be no need for art in the first place.

I am not good with words, but I hope that common sense will be able to give the distinction between what is benefitting and what is hindering, especially considering what I am about to critique just a few lines later. Considering that Patreon is involved in so many western Adult Games it is important to debate it in a constructive way. There is only so much you can play nowadays without knowing Japanese.

[1/2?] Post is too long.


 No.10021

File: 1456141976034.jpg (72.03 KB, 500x369, 500:369, cfb40c5ca11e86f660ae6c4b6c….jpg)

>>10020

This being said, when you want to critique the common Patreon practice then please name the devil by its real name.

- Shameless self-advertising all across the internet. How often do I have to see this elf-face? If you create a good product it will advertise itself. It's understandable that a bit additional effort is needed in the beginning, but considering how well some of those creators do, it really is questionable if additional advertising serves any meaningful purpose now. It becomes annoying, especially since so many Patreon users do this. And if you pretent to be some random person that just 'came across' it you make it ten times worse. I am sure it would be illegal, if people would not start to double pretend this to ruin other businesses. If you are in fact the creator you are a horrible person.

- Not offering the most recent Version for free. This way it is not free content in the way you present it since it is not 'the game' you get, but a premature version. It's false advertising. This practice is intolerable because it hinders any constructive critique process. You would have to (continually!) spent money, just to be able to critique the actual up-to-date product. If you do this it shows that you have zero interest in producing an actual quality product and in my opinion instantly discredits you as any serious developer.

- The overall low quality of content in adult games. Yes it is a niche genre, at least here in the west, but it doesn't mean you should be ably to get away with putting up utter crap and charge more money than most major full release of actual quality games would cost. Why do you use RPG-Maker? It doesn't run smoothly with acceptable fps for most uses. Using the RTP results in an incoherent design and will (most of the time rightly) be interpreted as laziness on the part of the producer. If you are not able to create a different engine on your own, pay someone to do it. With that much money you get at this point, there is no excuse not to. Can you guarantee that you are creating a worthwile game? Say, in the picture, why is her face three times on the screen? Actually, how big is your mastery as a content creator? Is it worth the attention and the money? How much again would it cost per month to get the up-to-date version? 20 bucks? How long will your work stay in development? One year? Two years?

- User generated content. In what way will it benefit the end-product? In your case it has nothing to do with 'being part of the creation process'. It's a sellout. I am sure your sugar-daddies will have a lot of fun for their 100$ monthly mail-exchange, but what about the average Joe to whom you advertise this product as being free? Do you even know how the finished game is going to look like? In 'J.U.L.I.A Among the Stars' you try to unrevel the mystery why every former crew-member you encounter has died and at one point you learn that one of them is named 'Necrosis Thanatos'. Surely this doesn't mess with the narrative at all.

Additional material for Patreon boni leave less time for actual development and result in the impossibility of a controlled and coherent world. The same goes for the absolute majority of votable content. You are literally whoring your own product. Just look how the girl is undressing herself by the 100$ reward description. That is you.

- Most creators are completely instransparent with their budget. Why do you need money? Tell us! If someone happens to be extraordinarily good in his field it might be completely justified for the person to earn himself a luxurious lifestyle through his work. But what about you? If someone considers backing you he wants to know if he is helping you survive, or if he merely buys you a more expensive coffee on your Friday. How much do you need to be able to continue? This is the most important number. Now how will additional funding actually result in a higher quality of product? Please explain! Why do you need 2000$ a month to buy a better video card? What video card are you planning to buy and how much does it cost? If people are willing to give you money they want to be able to check if it used effectively and possibly give feedback, it's their money after all.

I haven't played the demo since I hate the 3D style so I cannot actually give any critique on it. That fucking picture killed my boner like 3 times before. I want to punch that face in and I would even consider spending some money on your Patreon to see this happen. [2/2]


 No.10022

File: 1456145466697.png (124.62 KB, 240x249, 80:83, 1443964897764-1.png)

>>10020

>>10021

Well… shit…

I just sperged out in the Akabur thread by saying that Paetron is cancer but you've managed to not only have a succinct argument, you've also provided examples on how to improve the service. That Baroque example was a nice touch as well.

And you're plenty fine with words by the way. Was a good read.


 No.10046

Patreon encourages laziness, is run by SJWs, and has been nothing but a detriment to development.

You can propose all the solutions you want with bold text, bullet points, whatever but unless you are actually in a position where you are able to enact those changes, if you are using it you are part of the problem.

You've made something like 3 threads now, stop shilling.


 No.10136

>>10046

Prior to Patreon creators of adult games had to live by PayPal donations. No one complained back then and the main reason was that it was even less transparent. Chances are if someone switched from PayPal to Patreon and now earns a high amount of money, he already earned a lot under PayPal, but we just weren’t aware of it. You can be sure that people like Fenoxo were already making a ton far before PayPal prohibited pornographic content. A lot of Patreon practices were common back then as well.

Now it is easy to point out a couple of creators who make a ton of money by doing very little (those exist in every field of expertise), but at the same time ignore those who are still struggling to merely make a living. The latter – and this is important – constitute a much larger group. Believe it or not, Patreon is a step forward. Now it is possible to actively support the ones in need and ignore those, who are reaching high numbers, but are unable to step their game up according to the demand (breeding season comes to mind). If it doesn’t happen now, it will in the future once consumers learn to recognize con artists and bad premises.

That is not to say that Patreon is perfect, which it isn’t. But you are not ‘part of the problem’ if you are using it and especially not if you engage in any meaningful discussion about the topic. This couldn't be further from the truth. It lies in the human nature to improve by trying. If you fail, someone else can continue where you left of. It is much easier to observe why something didn't work and adjust it properties than beginning from scratch. Even the greatest inventions started out small and required countless attempts to gradually evolve in the form we are used to now. It is our duty to advance this process if it is impossible for us to take the whole step all on our own.

And if Patreon indeed is such a failed attempt, then you should still engage it and not ignore it. It might not be a machine that works as a whole, but that is no reason to throw away its functioning parts or abandon a concept which might be worth expanding on. Also, don’t forget that once a flawed service gains popularity other companies will create similar services to rival the original. Who is really part of ‘the problem’? Is it backers? Is it developers? It depends, but I am also willing to argue that it is partly due to those who are against changes per se and those who outright dismiss the possibility any ongoing discussion. If you manage to critique critical points in a concise manner, people will pick them up and refine your arguments. If you can give me examples on how the switch to Patreon was an actual detriment to development for any promising project I am open to change my own views, otherwise there is no basis for your claim because the complete opposite of what you say seems much more likely. At the end of my posts I would like to briefly propose a different cause of the existing problems.


 No.10137

File: 1456457088368.png (965.53 KB, 641x1002, 641:1002, Young Ervin Nyiregyházi.png)

>>10046

>>10136

There have always been artists who create for the sake of creating. They don't care what the public thinks about their works. Every one of ‘the Greats’ I can think of falls in this category. And why? Because they, out of an inner necessity, strive to always create greater works than the ones before. Those who have this personality-trait are naturally guaranteed to improve. Their work is much more likely to live on. And how much more is their art worth when it will last and stand the test of time?

Mozart was very bad with money, so his father was managing his finances until he died. According to him Mozart ‘just didn’t get it’. Often highly intelligent individuals are lacking in one field or another. In the beginning of the last century an extraordinary Hungarian boy with the name Ervin Nyiregyházi was born. His talent rivaled that of Mozart. In fact, he was one of the greatest geniuses ever recorded in history. With him we had the additional luck that we was lengthily studied in his youth by the Amsterdam psychologist Géza Révész who wrote a much cited book about the young prodigy. With him we don’t have to trust vague recounts – his abilities were attested and eminent. It didn’t take long for the wunderkind to tour Europe as a pianist. Interestingly though Nyiregyházi was even with 21 not capable of tying his shoe laces or cutting meat and was by one of his later wives observed to have major troubles with simple motor skills like changing his clothes.

And mind you, I am not talking about savants, but geniuses who proved to possess extraordinary feats in a wide range of abilities. Would it not be a minor issue for somebody else to help them out, when they in return have the potential to create great works of art?

What are great talents who struggle to make a living supposed to do? Market themselves at the expense of their art? Mozart, Beethoven and Chopin all had to give piano lessons in order to make a living during one part of their lives, when they themselves (and certainly every modern connoisseur would have liked this to happen as well) would rather have continued to compose. Now these are examples where the artists at least had the opportunity to do something close to what they would have done, but not everybody is this lucky. Do you expect someone to work eight or more hours a day in a factory so he can paint in his free time without starving? In what way is this no detriment, but Patreon is?

What other means do artists, or for the sake of consistency, musicians have? Perform in a bar in the hope that someday some big shot will notice them? Georges Cziffra did that and in the end it were the masses of admirers who through constant and numerous inquiry managed to secure him state funded concerts. Get a manager? Ervin Nyiregyházi had a manager and it didn't turn out well for him. He was mistreated and filed a lawsuit that he lost. Soon afterward he was reduced to sleeping in the subway station and his career was over in a matter of a few days. Nyiregyházi was special in the way that he always wanted to have absolute liberty in what he did. Out of his stubbornness but also his inner beliefs he simply was unable to work under any different circumstances. No one would hire you back then unless you were willing to perform popular pieces. It’s the sincere artist that has to face the biggest difficulties.

We are in a similar situation right now where there are certain formulas within popular media producers adhere to. Think only of superhero movies, or simply common movie tropes in AAA titles. Again, those movies are investments and those formulas guarantee predictable profit. The same is true for video games, or more relevant, for Japanese hentai games. Daring fetish games become less and less common and are substituted by your one regular footjob scene per game to appeal to the demographics. The genre is ridden with formalities and innovations became a rare sight. One possible solution would be a different financial backing system for more daring indie developers.

In Japan smaller doujin circles mainly use DLSite and DMM for online distribution. The insecurity whether or whether not their games will sell together with the small size of the teams are responsible for the small scale of production. Crowdfunding when done right would nearly completely eliminate the first difficulty and help significantly with the second.


 No.10138

File: 1456457281951.gif (118.2 KB, 400x516, 100:129, Nyiregyházi passport photo….gif)

>>10046

>>10137

Later in his life Nyiregyházi was literally tracked down by dedicated benefactors who managed to organize a stipend for him to create recordings of his piano playing. The project was granted 36.000$ (today this would be around 150k) through different funds, while he himself received 10.000$ over a course of several months. This resembles crowdfunding to some extend, doesn’t it?

And did this sudden income make him lazy? No! He was happy to have been given the opportunity to share his beliefs, convictions and philosophy through his art. And this by a true eccentric, who was highly afraid of the public, hated the commercialism of the music industry and had little interest in standing in the spotlight of attention. In fact it required tremendous persuasion on part of the sponsors to make him even consider accepting the grant, while he himself was broke and neither owned a single desk, stool and, yes, not even a piano. Coming across the resulting recordings was one the most profound experiences of my life and I would very much like other people to experience their own comparable moments. This is why I take the effort to write all of this.

Nyiregyházi considered himself to be a composer and not a performer. Indeed, his output was highly prolific and he was estimated to have composed over a thousand pieces (~12.000 manuscript pages) throughout his life, most of which were preserved and are as far as I know currently stored in bank vaults. Those pieces still remain unpublished and they are for a reason. Who would buy an expensive limited edition as thick as five telephone books of some Hungarian composer who you 1) never heard of and 2) whose name you probably cannot even pronounce right, even though all indications are that these pieces are actual works of genius, true cultural treasures. For me this is the best example why the conventional funding system has its limits.

If there is little chance to make considerable profit no investor is going to take the risk of losing its capital. The same is true in the field of video games. What publisher is going to fund a western eroge? No one, because at this stage it will not generate sufficient returns and will easily spoil the name of any investor. With the internet you can donate anonymously, retrieve the product anonymously and you can even create them anonymously. At the same time, it is easy to spot major production flaws early on in development and either point them out or stop supporting the project. This way a lot of wasted effort could be prevented. Again, how is this any detriment?


 No.10139

>>10046

>>10138

There is a big difference in what a professional and what a dedicated amateur can accomplish. You can easily see this when you compare their corresponding output. While Japanese companies produce book-esque hentai games with just as much visual content, dedicated fan groups merely manage to create english-patches and in doing so take on average much longer than the actual production of the original. There do exist some western visual novels, like Katawa Shoujo or Unteralterbach, but they in return have less content and are a rare occurrence.

As I have written above, within the professional field you can find those who are just as enthusiastic and true in what they do, but they have more time to hone their skills and work on their products. We need more people willing to go full-time. Once this happens there will be less scam and crap like OP because there will actually be serious competition and Japanese investors will be are more likely to localize their games because they see that we are willing so spend money on lewd interactive media.

Western adult games are still community driven, rather than driven by individual artists. You can easily see this by the abundance of games containing furry and transformation fetish related content.

With a big and hopefully neutral platform people will come in contact with the games without further contact with the corresponding communities. Slowly the emphasis will shift towards genre driven games by which in return single creators will be more likely to give it their own try and express what they want in their respective individual style.

And is the political alignment of the admins really that much of a problem? While 8chan’s Patreon page was taken down an active member of Gurochan has found something like a safe haven there. His guro-animations were reported, but he managed to convince the staff not to take it down. As long as it stays that way I am positively surprised by this. And I would very much like to see either Patreon or another platform getting more open-minded (Patreon bans underage stuff, even though it’s under US law).

How are we not in a position to change a thing?

For every poster there are 100 lurkers. In the Teaching Feeling thread someone was suggesting for the author to create a Patreon page or create different means to send him money. There was much talk, but little action and everybody just happily continues to pirate their games. But of course, a service that would allow for the product to be free and still get the creator his food is not an option.Meanwhile on ULMF the fan translators are discussing approaching the author with their translation to sort out any misunderstandings. It's a smart move and they are ready to offer the translation to be included in the official release. Considering the popularity of the game it would be great for this to work out. I don’t see how it would not be possible for users of this board to do similar things.

Maybe it really is just your indifferent attitude that is ‘the problem’. Did you ever think of that? Or is this thought outside your comfort zone?


 No.10141

File: 1456475936517.jpg (29.84 KB, 480x360, 4:3, 1442451998718.jpg)

>>10136

>>10137

>>10138

>>10139

You argue like a jew knowing no one is going to read all that yet making the point enough times throughout that a single glance is enough to glean what it is. The idea of this type or shit has always been to make someone feel smart by agreeing with you, or stupid by not understanding what you're saying, likely because you're not really saying anything and if you are its the same statement dragged out across a mile.

I'm not reading that bullshit. Patreon is a fucking cancer, end of story.


 No.10191

File: 1456650185450.jpg (106.4 KB, 800x800, 1:1, 50526787692.jpg)

>>10141

I guess a few intelligent faggots stayed after all.


 No.10215

Is this where we discuss Patreon?

Had Feira Quest met its goal nearly a year ago, they game would've been quite playable today. Instead, I had to look for a job and am now spending 12 hours a day working on a real career while the game's been on hold. Of course, you're welcome to doubt me, but the fact that we stopped the monthly billing months ago and haven't charged since is evidence we have no intention of using the platform to scam people.

>>10046

>run by SJWs

This sucks. Is there anything SJWs aren't ruining?


 No.10221

File: 1456710579725.jpg (109.38 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, a-better-tomorrow.jpg)

>>10215

>Feira Quest

>$4,000 a month to fund the game.

>Currently only gets $300 a month

I think you're way way overestimating the necessary funds and interest in a project like this.


 No.10222

>>10215

>Had Feira Quest met its goal nearly a year ago, they game would've been quite playable today.

Your statement isn't wrong but its not nearly as it first sounds.

We've had more than a handful of games get immensely funded, developed to the point of playability, and then just flatout dropped or slowed to a crawl while raking in monthlies/per tiny ass updates.

Would you have put the time into it? I can't say for sure, and honestly I don't think you could either but I do know that I'll take experience over your word.

>Of course, you're welcome to doubt me

Thanks for that opportunity.

>but the fact that we stopped the monthly billing months ago and haven't charged since is evidence we have no intention of using the platform to scam people.

Read that last line again. You're fully aware it could be and is used to scam people and have taken the active steps to make sure you are not doing so. What does that say about the platform itself?

Oh and the sob story about having to look for an actual job doesn't mean diddly, welcome to everyone else's life. Until patreon h-game development was a hobby. Fucking highschoolers were slapping together shit more complicated than your average patreon scam in fucking flash and throwing it up on newgrounds for free for years. Nowadays you can't have someone cobble together a shitty AMV without slapping their patreon link in at the end and mysteriously disappearing when they fail to rake in their projected 1.5k a month goal for it.


 No.10223

>>10221

After splitting amongst the team, the amount per person isn't even enough to pass the US poverty line. Though I can't say how many of the others wanted to put in a full time effort. At any rate, good luck trying to fund skilled labor when you're paying well below minimum wage. Factor in the lack of career advancement, and it should be apparent I was desperately whoring myself back then.

But yeah, I figured there'd be more interest, even if not 4k's worth. I would've commited at 2k, at which point I could pay for a shithole to live in.


 No.10231

>>10222

>What does that say about the platform itself?

Personally, I think it's a people problem. Patrons are free to cease funding at anytime, yet they throw money at scams. It's a mystery to me. Even the word scam might be too much. If you buy a Pepsi and hate it, you're not being scammed if you keep buying it everyday; you're just dumb.

>Oh and the sob story about having to look for an actual job doesn't mean diddly, welcome to everyone else's life.

And that's why everyone's not making porn games. The sob story's just there to explain why there isn't a game right now, and how Patreon could've brought the product to realization had we met the goal.

Now that I have a job, there's no financial incentive for me to work on porn games. I'd be best off just refunding everyone double and calling it quits. When you disregard the outliers, there's no way the profits from a porn game will ever be worth my time now. I'm just still in this because I'm dumb and feel a silly obligation.

>Fucking highschoolers were slapping together shit more complicated than your average patreon scam in fucking flash and throwing it up on newgrounds for free for years.

Anything good? Anyway, I've done more than my fair share of free work for the hggs. Anonymously, no less. Sometimes I wonder whether it's a good idea or not to connect all the dots.


 No.10237

>>10231

>And that's why everyone's not making porn games.

No, not everyone is making porn games because the majority of people don't enjoy game development. Money or no they just don't give a fuck, h-games are especially niche.

>there's no financial incentive for me to work on porn games

>When you disregard the outliers, there's no way the profits from a porn game will ever be worth my time now. I'm just still in this because I'm dumb and feel a silly obligation.

Found your problem. you shouldn't be making porn games for "financial incentive". I can think of quite a few things more lucrative off the top of my head, and more still that would provide a perfectly livable income. This is why patreon is cancer, h-game development should have remained a hobby, instead we have a bunch of people with RPG maker looking to be the next akabur or breeding season.

>Anything good?

Nowadays? Fuck no. Like I said patreon pretty much fucking killed that dream. Up until a few years ago though LoK forums were chock full of personal projects, and newgrounds was home to many, many dating sims like Aching Dreams waaaay back when as well as shit like Frank's Adventure with a huge number of sequels.

Everyone seems to have adopted the same mentality as you lately though, "if there is no money in it why bother?" Thus we have the fucking flood of unfinished projects and general apathy that we do from would-be entrepreneurs.

>Anyway, I've done more than my fair share of free work for the hggs.

Was it really for free if you were looking to make money though? You were just setting the stage.



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