/his/ - History

Imma chime in here cos >>23789 looks like English is not his strong point.

>What did it look like? Did Bactrian cities look Greek or Eastern?

I don't think there have been any reconstructions of the architecture of Sogdiana or Bactria so I'm just gonna guess. Bactria would have lots of Persian influence because of the long Achaemanid control. The Sogdians, I am not too sure, they could have had Chinese influences too because of their trade relations with the Song(?)

>What religions did steppe peoples follow prior to Islam?

The Iranians would have probably practiced Zoroastrianism or an older form before Zoroaster's reforms. Manichaeism came around the same time as Nestorian Christianity which was spread from Syriac speakers (the Sogdian alphabet is a daughter of Aramaic, which the Uyghers adopted, then the Mongols adopted the Uygher alphabet which became their traditional script). I believe Buddhism spread before Manichaeism or Christianity, it had a rich history there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road_transmission_of_Buddhism).

The Uyghers and other Turks followed Tengrism of courshe but when they started to settle in the Tarim basin, many of them adopted the many religions of the prior inhabitants (the Tocharians who were an Indo European people). In fact I believe there are religious documents written in Sogdian and Uygher about Buddhist sutras and Christian and Manichaean hymns.

>What are some good books or documentaries about this region?

I would not bother with any documentaries as they are solely for plebs. I'll provide a list of books instead.

Christopher Beckwith - Empires of the Silk Road

Frank Lee Holt - Thundering Zeus

H.G. Rawlinson - Bactria- The History of a Forgotten Empire

James Ward - Sogdian Traders- A History

>>23803

>>23789

I hate how 97% of documentaries are catering to illiterate amerifats who just want loud noise and special effects. Actually informational shows are rare gems

All I know is that Russia had a great time "civilizing them", more so because its the first time the Russians were the civilized ones.

>>23786

>But there's so little media about times and places like Medieval Georgia, the Grecobactrian Kingdom, or Turkic nomads.

Probably because they were all illiterate nomads that didn't have a writing system.

Almost every thing in africa is lost forever, only the northern most part of africa developed writing, The mali got culturally enriched by arabs so they had arabic. But most of the shit blacks have done? Completely unknowable.

>>23854

sogds have sogdinian alphabet, and turks had gokturk alpabet, also uyghur turks had their own alphabet similar to the sogd ones

>>23863

>settling in city

>nomads

>illiterate

>>23803

>Empires of the Silk Road

I have that but haven't bothered to read it yet. A lot of reviews seem to state it's basically a very dry recounting of names and dates with no real expansion on any of it which sucks. I'd like to learn more about that region, the post-Empire Khanates, the Silk Road, the Great Game, etc. but it seems like it kind of falls into that same area as the Ottoman Empire of being fairly important yet with not a lot of good stuff (or at all really) written in English.

>>23863

>>23879

Okay, MOST of them didn't have any writing.

>>23892

what do you even expect me to say, even if I put lots of writings you claim, they are steppe gangs never done anything good.

also I didn't know avarage western know how to read and write during 600's which means also MOST western nor eastern(arabs,persians included) don't know how to write and read.

I recently ordered a book called "lost enlightenment" by S.Frederick Starr about central Asia's golden age. Its around 600 pages and looks to be full of good info. Give it a read OP.

>>23889

Yeah, Beckwith is somewhat untrusted in academic circles although his linguistic work might be better (I've never read any criticism of it, although I've only read his book on the Goguryeo language).

>>23892

Nah, all of them were literate, even the Göktürks made inscriptions in Mongolia.

>>23909

>Nah, all of them were literate

I wouldn't claim that but still he was wrong.

>>23917

What I meant to say was that they all produced written records, literacy in the different societies is another question altogether. What kind of people made the Göktürk inscriptions?

>>23909

Looking around for different books, Lost Enlightenment: Central Asia's Golden Age by S. Frederick Starr seems like it might be good. Seems to focus more on intellectual movements during the Islamic Golden Age in the region but the reviews for it seem good.

Does anyone know about The Cambridge History of Early Inner Asia by Denis Sinor?

I've only been able to find brief summaries and it sounds like exactly what I want (medieval Turkic histories) but it's listed at a pretty steep price, the lowest I've seen being $80.

Is there a way to get it for cheap if not free, and if not, is it worth ~$100?

>>24181

I don't know about that specific book (check reviews if in doubt), but Cambridge History should be a guarantee of quality.

For this and countless other essays, bookmark gen.lib.rus.ec

http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=8DE4C91A53913F5BDBA5EE3D602885BF

>>24175

>>24187

These look bretty gud

>>24187

Thanks for the link but honestly I can't stand reading books on the computer. I need to look at paper.

>>24220

Print it maybe? I don't think it'll cost you 80$, for the parts that interest you. Or borrow it from a library. Capitalism is a bitch.

>>24221

Oh yeah, I forgot libraries exist. Thanks for the advice.

>>24222

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, have a ;^)

>>24223

The sad thing is I'm being 100% serious. I legitimately forgot libraries were a thing and had not even considered looking there for the book.

>>24224

Kek.

>>24225

Just found out that my local library has a single copy in stock. Time to go wild. Bumin wills it.

Empire of the Steppes: a History of Central Asia by Rene Grousset provides a nice overview of Central Asian history.

It's not as in depth as I'd like, but you can only expect so much for 550 pages covering 2500+ years and millions of square kilometers.

Excellent introduction to the area and starting point for anyone interested in the history of Central Asia.

>>33802

>If they were Indo European would they have worshipped a "sky father" corresponding to Zeus, Wotan or such? Or possibly even hybridised with a Turkic god like Tengri?

Reconstructed proto-Indo-European sky father (Dyeus-phter) is already very similar to Tengri. Also it's not clear how much of later Indo-European pantheons is actually inherited from back then, as they vary wildly, so they could as well be adopted from subjugated peoples.

>>33802

>What do we know about Tocharian religion prior to the arrival of Buddhism?

Next to nothing. Not even any evidence from people's names, most of them are Buddhist and the rest are just generic (quick, beloved)

>Apparently they practiced human sacrifice and killed prisoners and slaves to accompany nobles to the afterlife, which accounts for the dessication of some of the tarim mummies

Do you have single fact to back that up?

>>23832

>lieve Buddhism spread before Manichaeism or Christianity, it had a rich history the

>>23832

Russia didn't civilized us they destroyed our culture and turned us poor idiots…

>>35117

Buddhism did spread before Manichaeism, Mani incorporated Gautama as one of prophets in his religion.

>Russia didn't civilized us they destroyed our culture and turned us poor idiots…

Are you Uyghur or from some Central Asian stan? You guys were already poor idiots before the Russians :^)

>>23786

>What are some good books or documentaries about this region?

Read L.N. Gumilev. Ignoring his attempts at theology, cool stuff.

>Did Silk Road Merchants travel all the way from China to Persia, or did the goods simply keep changing hands?

Probably both ways, and depending on the time. At least some apparently did.

>What religions did steppe peoples follow prior to Islam?

Depends on exactly where and when.

The Mongols (and presumably some of their neighbours) had "the Black Faith", which looks like either a local brand of Zoroastrianism or something suspiciously close - at the time the Horde was established.

As it expanded, there was influx of Christianity (Nestorian) from West and Buddhism from South-East, and conversions - while officially.

E.g. Hulegu himself was a Buddhist, but his wife Dokuz-Qatun a Christian. When Hulegu's army took Baghdad, the Caliph's palace became the residence of the Nestorian Patriarch.

Only much later they got Islam.

>>35152

>while officially

state religion was "the Black Faith", in unofficial settings certain princes stopped about one word shy of openly calling themselves Christians before foreign diplomats.

>>35152

>"the Black Faith", which looks like either a local brand of Zoroastrianism or something suspiciously close

Oh boy, here we go.

>>35154

>here we go.

Well, yeah, there's not a lot of detailed accounts. But enough to reasonably infer basic properties.

>>35153

>the Black Faith

This sounds like somthing edgy from a fantasy novel.

>>35122

Times before Russia was peaceful I think I didn't live those times but my family says that. At least we were free and happy… I'm a Kirghiz who is living in Turkey.

>>35185

>But enough to reasonably infer basic properties

And what are these "basic properties" of the "Black faith"?

>>35198

It rather sounds like "We wuz kingz" nonsense

>>35228

I think he means Tengri-shamanism thing the Mongols digged but I don't get the Zoroastrian connection, just cos fire was an important part in their rituals doesn't mean it was influenced by Zoroastrianism.

>>35244

>I think he means Tengri-shamanism thing the Mongols digged

well nowadays shamanic practices influenced by buddhism are called yellow shamanism and those that aren't are called black shamanism in mongolia

but I don't get the connection to zoroastrianism

>>35261

Me neither. I don't think the Mongols were dualist :^)

>>35122

civilization doesn't mean buildings…

>>35306

You god damn mongorians