/his/ - History

The Mongol Conquests

I know it's exciting from the POV of Genghis, but all those massacres and the social and political change it created from Central Europe to China, and Russia to Egypt, just depresses me.

>>29096

>tfw British Empire died by their own hand

I love all the dramatic bullshit that Asians pull off, suduko and so on.

Honourable displays a best.

"La garde meurt et ne se rend pas! Merde!"

The 30 Years War was pretty damn depressing if you consider the sheer amounts of death and devastation it has wreaked - not only through actual warfare and marauding Landsknechts, but also through disease and starvation. Sabaton has released a rather touching song about it where the refrain repeats the question 'has man gone insane?!', which probably was pretty close to what it looked like for the average European commoner.

Chernobyl is another hit right in the feels. Doubly so when you see how many physically and mentally deformed children were born as a result of the radioactive contamination. Ukraine had enough issues properly caring for them as it was, and I dare not imagine how things look like right now with the ongoing clay conflict.

And finally, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I have little sympathy for the Japanese WW II military, but the idea that all live within a 3.5 km radius was simply snuffed out makes me feel sad, even if one can argue that it was the lesser evil compared to a full-scale invasion and continued strategic bombing.

>>29096

This, honestly. This is why history is so important, the story of everyone is worth preserving, from the smallest tribe to the biggest empire. Its the story of everyone, you, your mother, your father, your uncle, etc.

I remember seeing in a National Geographic chart that throughout all of our species, the Homo Sapiens Sapiens that is, there have existed approximately 107 billion modern human lives. Just imagine the enormity of our past, and the weight of the legacy that we must create for future lives once we pass

>>29094

This

>>29095

Yeah fucking right.

I don't want to turn this into a political thread but weeping for royalty that were responsible for the deaths and miserable living conditions of millions of people is disgusting

>>29107

Fugg I know this feel

>>29107

`Hopefully by looking at our past we can help en human discord in a way that benefits us all

>>29107

>Time machine

Finnaly, something STEMfags can do for the good of humanity

My feels are with Lenin, he died as he could see that his dream of communism was coming to an end, opportunists were taking over the Communist Party and he understood the threat of Stalin but could do nothing. Imagine thinking that you were doing something that would benefit the whole of man-kind and you actually make the building blocks to arguably the most brutal regime in History…

Also what gets me down is the fact that I know nothing about my grandparents so I don't know about my heritage, and even if I did I wouldn't know anything more than two hundred years of my ancestry; I want to go and see my ancestors live, love, laugh and cry, I just want to see more of life and more of why I am living today, what they had to go through to let me live the life I'm living today.

>>29115

>his dream of communism was coming to an end

lol

Lenin himself brought the dream of communism to an end by instituting the NEP, which was in all terms a state capitalism

Such move was simply necessary and Lenin knew it, otherwise the system would've fallen apart after a year or two

>>29118

The NEP was only meant to be temporary, he was going to cancel it for socialism.

Fall of Rome

not to be a romeaboo but it sucked for everyone living in Roman borders, barbarians sacking everything, frequent massacres, constant war.

>>29125

>>29093

Holy fuck war does fucked up shit to people.

Also, Agent Orange can eat a dick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHIEcUP1VBI

>>29101

>And finally, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

>the lesser evil compared to a full-scale invasion and continued strategic bombing.

Yeah, I don't think an invasion would've lasted long honestly. America's southern invasion campaign would've been a meat grinder but with the Russians invading from the relatively unguarded North I think it would've been cleaned up quickly.

The bomb isn't why they surrendered anyway.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/

>>29135

Yeah, basically the entire history and culture of the Americas was wiped out, a fucking shame even from a purely academic standpoint, and a tragedy considering the loss of life.

While we're on it chattel slavery was honestly awful as well

>>29135

>>29152

The mass death of the Native Americans would, of course, have happened even if the Europeans had come on a mission of peace.

In much the same way that the Plague(s) came from Asia to Europe it was European diseases that killed most of them.

Still a tragedy but an almost unavoidable one (you can't know that is going to happen until you go there and all).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trials_of_the_Knights_Templar

Basically got lynched for money

>>29184

Yeah, for sure, but there still were some unjustifiable campaigns of expansion and domination, especially later on when Indians were far from any kind of threat. But yeah the plague was unavoidable either way

>>29201

>Yeah, for sure, but there still were some unjustifiable campaigns of expansion and domination, especially later on when Indians were far from any kind of threat.

Definitely true but no worse than what has happened elsewhere throughout history. It was really, as you say, opportunism due to the effects of disease.

>But yeah the plague was unavoidable either way

In some ways that makes it a little more tragic.

>>29210

Yeah. The current attitude of big bad whitey should be ashamed for wiping out the Indians is historically ignorant (everybody has always raped and genocided each other all the time) and insulting to the Indians who no doubt would have put up more of a fight if they hadn't been hit with apocalyptic plagues. It's just depressing to think about all those failed rebellions and resistances, to see your entire idea of civilization fall apart in your lifetime (not just your specific culture - you see your entire concept of what society is being crippled and disposed of) and be remembered in a hundred years only as a fucking gas station novelty for aging hippies to buy for each other.

>>29213

I'd imagine there is real pain in watching your language die.

That's happened elsewhere particularly in the 20th century (indeed some governments purposefully tried to, occasionally successfully, wipe out certain languages).

>>29215

Certainly regional dialects have died out as nationalism began pushing for unified 'official' versions that were usually just the capital's dialect to begin with.

FOREIGN

SOLDIERS

>>29217

Yeah this definitely.

>>29217

I doubt an Abrahamic religion in a Roman context would have been so accommodating to begin with, but maybe Christianity could have developed more like how Islam did in regard to Zoroastrianism, Eastern Christianity, and Hinduism so that at the very least a subjugated if not respected pagan population might continue to exist into the 21st century with their books and rituals as living traditions.

>>29217

I mean one thing that really intrigues me about the older religions is that they, as far as anyone can tell, never had a Zoroaster. No Christ, Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius, etc.

Seemed as though they were a means of how the ethnic group that practiced them interpreted the world, rather than the teachings of a charismatic man.

>>29227

Perhaps the great prophets, rather than being the basis of the religion from the beginning, were instead just philosophers and social revolutionaries that gained a small following among a pagan landscape no different than what Europe probably had, who later became elevated as both the fount and mouth of the religion by increasingly independent and separatist religious leaders that organized themselves.

>>29234

This is most likely, but either way Abrahamic religions are clearly unique from both ancient and modern "pagan" religions.

>>29236

From the way Eastern religions and Medieval Eastern European paganism developed, I think non-Abrahamic religions required a priesthood and temple network that was generally independent of political power, which is why it seems rebellions and revolts of monks and militant sects seems more common in East Asia whereas in Western Eurasia these movements become heresies that live or die depending on the power of their political patronage.

So paganism died out in Europe and diminished in the Middle East because Christianity and Islam became intertwined with political power, undercutting their pagan rivals.

>>29106

tbh Imperial Russia was better than commie russia and modern russia.

>>29146

Not to mention how America only dropped the bombs to intimidate Russia, as the Japanese had been trying to surrender for some time previously.

>>29247

Maybe, but that doesn't mean I feel bad for the fucking Czar of all people

>>29101

Yeah, I'd probably put the 30 Years War as the most overall depressing war in human (or at least western) history. It gets to a point where everyone's like "what the fuck are we even doing but we're so far in we can't get out now".

>>29264

Why not? You don't think it's possible to feel bad for, say, Nicholas II and his family or Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette and the way they were killed for little more than PR reasons? Especially a guy like Louis who, by all accounts, wasn't even a particularly bad guy at all just not fit for any kind of leadership role.

>>29128

"The city has fallen yet I still live."

>>29093

>What are, in your opinion, the saddest moments in history, from any historical event?

I don't know. I think it's hard to sort out the saddest historical event, given how much full of suffering it is. Happiness are the blank pages of history.

>>29247

Imperial Russia was shit, they had their armies destroyed by Napoleon (only thing that saved them was winter, they got fucked by the Brits and the French during the Crimean War and they even got beaten by fucking Japan. They were pretty damn shit-tier and viewed as a joke by Western Civilisations, at least Stalin actually made Russia into a threat.

>>29248

>as the Japanese had been trying to surrender for some time previously.

doubt that

>>29286

Some judge nations on the quality of life for their citizens rather then by their military might.

>>29309

>quality of life in tsarist Russia was better than under the soviets

top kek, the soviets were shit but still better than what had happened before, especially for the average person

>>29309

Mate, Imperial Russia still practised serfdom in the nineteenth century, even when it was abolished it was still practised. Also 80% of the entire population of Russia were peasants before the soviets took control so quality of life was very shit.

>>29093

Hasdrubal (the Carthaginian commander on the siege of Carthage) begging for Aemilianus to spare his family and other deserters only for his wife and children come up and throw themselves into the fire followed by the other deserters upon which Scipio wept for the general and fucking chaos of it all

>Scipio, when he looked upon the city as it was utterly perishing and in the last throes of its complete destruction, is said to have shed tears and wept openly for his enemies. After being wrapped in thought for long, and realizing that all cities, nations, and authorities must, like men, meet their doom; that this happened to Ilium, once a prosperous city, to the empires of Assyria, Media, and Persia, the greatest of their time, and to Macedonia itself, the brilliance of which was so recent, either deliberately or the verses escaping him, he said:

A day will come when sacred Troy shall perish,

And Priam and his people shall be slain.

>And when Polybius speaking with freedom to him, for he was his teacher, asked him what he meant by the words, they say that without any attempt at concealment he named his own country, for which he feared when he reflected on the fate of all things human. Polybius actually heard him and recalls it in his history

>>29268

tbh Feudalism is one of my favourite most-wanted forms of government, next to pure Monarchy or Starship-Troopers style Limited Democracy.

See, Feudalism, especially in the Early Modern sense of the delagated-authority pyramid scheme, works because it takes into account human nature (being greedy fucks) and twists that into a good method of control (no bennies for you mister duke if you don't collect my taxes) and if the peasantry get worked over too much they can rebel and set things back to the way it should be (ex, John Cade's rebellion and manifesto - removing corrupt nobles and maintaining the monarchy).

Commies are the worst, the Tsar wasn't a bad ruler - if he was, why would the White Russians have fought against the Reds for as long as they did?

The destruction of the history of the North Caucasus

>>29354

you mean firebombed

>>29363

You are really fucking wrong, friend

Quality of life for the average person was fucking horrible in feudalism. You realize you would be one of those peasants right? So you're either masochistic or delusionally imagining you would be a noble if you lived in feudalism. And even as a noble, your life would only be good relative to peasants, and probably on par with poor first worlders today

>>29093

well this song come to mind, the annihalation of the danes by ethelbert i think was terrible

also this >>29103

>>29363

>Commies are the worst, the Tsar wasn't a bad ruler - if he was, why would the White Russians have fought against the Reds for as long as they did?

You forget that many of the White Russians where Republicans, not Monarchists, supporters of the Republic that was overthrown by the Bolsheviks (many people forget the fact that by the time of the October Revolution, Russia was no longer a Monarchy) What united the White movement was their anti-communism.

Anyways, saying that the long struggle of the white movement is a proof of how worse the Bolsheviks where, is a very flawed way of seeing history. For one thing, you are ignoring the fact that one of the reasons why the White movement lasted that long, was the ample foreign support they received, in some cases with foreign armies occupying russian soil.

I'm saying this as someone who feels the "nostalgia", and have sympaties for Zarist Russia (I'm not russian btw), but you shouldn't let that obscure your historical vision.

>>29247

it depended on where/what you were and who the czar was. the later ones were pretty shitty and revolution was gonna come in some form. it also didnt help that they were the new "sick man of Europe" after the Crimean war.

>>29406

whites were collection of anyone who wasnt red. if they had won they would have probaly turned on each other.

>>29224

>with their books and rituals as living traditions

First off Germanic paganism didn't have any texts or writings and all we know about it come from Christian texts

>>29242

>Pagan religions were independent from political power and government

Not really true. Most religions have held considerable influence on the politics of their respective regions. Druids for example held considerable political power in Celtic societies, and other pagan cultures (Rome, Greece, and China) heavily mixed religion with politics.

Christianity and Islam were successful because they had written texts, an unifying non-ethnic religion, and eventually became entwined with government.

Of course Christianity also grew in an enviroment without actual spiritual belief. The pagan religions of Europe offered nothing to their believers, and it showed in the late roman empire with all the cults that flourished during that time.

>>29146

>We should have let hundreds of thousands of Americans die and let the USSR get a foothold in Japan

Yeah nah. The nukes were the best thing to happen to Japan, because they would not unconditionally surrender.

If we hadn't dropped the nukes then we might be facing a North Japan Socialist Republic

>>29414

if they had won they would have probaly turned on each other.

Mate, they were already against each other, there were three major white armies that fought in the Civil War and one reason why they failed was because they were fighting each other.

>>29363

>Commies are the worst, the Tsar wasn't a bad ruler

He was utterly incompetent, he might not have deserved to be killed simply because he was born into royalty but he was still an idiot.

I find pretty damn sad reading stuff from people who either were about to die but didn't know it, or knew they were going to die but couldn't do anything about it.

>>29379

>le peasants were dirty illiterate fucks covered in shit meme

Peasant farmers got more time off in a year than you would in three, if you had a job.

Farming your own little bit of land and paying tribute to a lord seems pretty comfy to me.

Ok, they probably were mostly illiterate but the point stands.

—

On Czarist Russia, surely an incompetent ruler is still better than a competent ruler whose goal is to grind you down to dust, dehumanize you and turn you into a tool of the state.

>>29537

>On Czarist Russia, surely an incompetent ruler is still better than a competent ruler whose goal is to grind you down to dust, dehumanize you and turn you into a tool of the state.

The Tsar attempted to continue this but incompetently so yes, I'd prefer a competent ruler.

>>29545

So you would prefer a competent enemy to an incompetent enemy?

Talk about masochism!

>>29547

No, what I would prefer is to have a competent leader rather than one that completely lacks competence.

>>29363

Not all of the Whites were monarchists, monarchists were only a minority. The whites were only bound together by their hate of communism.

>>29548

A tyrant is a ruler, but not a leader. If the ruler of your country does not care about his country (or even actively destroys it!) and his success means a horrible life for you, how is it in any way better that he is not a buffoon?

>>29095

>was going to create a constitutional monarchy

>edgelord slav ruins everything

history is depressing

>>29537

Sure lord, please take my fiances virginity and anything else you want

Maybe I'll get lucky and the rest of the town will get angry enough that one day I can rebel and get cut down by some pillaging mercenary in shining armor

I mean if you want feudalism go live in Dubai and enjoy your comfy life as a servant on a bunk

>>29571

That's how it goes right? Frederick III dying from larynx cancer never getting the chance to liberalize/reform the Empire. Franz Ferdinand getting killed because he wanted to turn the Austro-Hungarian Empire into more of a federation with greater representation for the various Slav groups.

>>29093

>the saddest moments in history

It have to be the fall of the British Empire. The Empire has done a lot of good in our land. Improving education, giving us civilisation. To me, the most important thing the Empire gave us is peace and order. This was a very lawless land before the Brits arrived. When asked to leave, they find ways for a smooth transition unlike say the Dutch, the French, or the Japs.

When the Nips about to attack our land, the Brit in charge of our land was given a free passage to escape to Australia. He refused.

The British in our land really believed in the White Man's Burden. It's not something I support today, of course. But I still can't help but admire these strange people who'd sacrifice their lives for us. Even though they all aware that we have no riches to give them.

The final music in this video is very good.

>>29537

>Peasant farmers got more time off in a year than you would in three, if you had a job.

That's not exactly true, though. Sure they didn't owe their landowners more than a certain number of work days in a year, but that doesn't count the time they needed to sustain their household, plus make a profit for themselves, plus work on crafts for the winter off season.

>>29519

>First off Germanic paganism didn't have any texts or writings and all we know about it come from Christian texts

It's not uncommon for pagan traditions to only later develop or consolidate texts. It's not unreasonable to think there would have been Germanic pagan texts had the tradition survived long enough for the diffusion of Frankish/Latin grammar traditions.

>Not really true. Most religions have held considerable influence on the politics of their respective regions.

What he was saying was that pagan religions were independent from government i.e. they operated independently of government. However much power they had over political culture wasn't reflected back on any religious institution the way the king, emperor, caliph, or sultan reflected back onto priests and imams.

>>29577

Where are you from?

>>29590

I'd assume some random island in the pacific.

>>29592

>>29590

Borneo

>>29594

Interesting. You'd be lynched here to say anything positive about colonialism

>>29136

What must it have felt like on the day Rome fell? It must have felt like the end of the world.

>>29600

That's understandable, look at the mess the Dutch did to Indonesia. Or what France did to Vietnam.

We were just really lucky. The right kind of colonists, and the right time period.

>>29634

>Not really, look at how Roman religious institutions became politicized,

Yes, and then we see what happened to Roman paganism when Christianity supplanted all its political functions.

>>29649

Wasn't Borneo divided up my multiple colonial powers? How'd the non British part turn out?

>>29649

>That's understandable

Eh I guess I just don't like this mentality . "X is all bad" and shit. Like you said, you had the right kind of colonists

>>29128

The sack itself was even sadder than the fall

>>29577

The Dutch was awful here, but not necessarily so. Since it had a parliament and factions, there were monarchists, conservatives, reactionaries, liberals, and socialists. Before the revolution, any power struggle going on in Den Haag affected here. Obviously the colony existed in order to exploit the raw materials here and the strategic trade routes, so back then no rational, self-interested Dutch would prefer to change the status quo. only christfags or pinkos/commies helped (since they're insane justice fanatics).

>>29765

I suppose it's because the Dutch weren't as interested in a long-term/stable Empire as much as short term economic benefit.

The British Empire just physically could not afford to fight rebellions everywhere and so had to keep things reasonable.

>>29791

>>29765

Before WW2 I don't think the Brits were any different than the Dutch. It was the Japanese in WW2 that changed it all. Borneo was razed and had to be rebuilt as a British crown colony, the focus going to stabilizing local government and economy to resist communism for several decades, while the Dutch lost their part almost immediately after WW2 to Indonesian nationalists.

Generally speaking, for places that were either underdeveloped or depended on globalized trade lanes, the colonists were a marked improvement. For everyone else with an industrial base or a market economy, they regularly made enemies of people.

>>29797

>Before WW2 I don't think the Brits were any different than the Dutch.

>In Borneo

I disagree with you on this. Look at how the natives in Dutch and British area reacted when the Japanese came.

The natives in the British area did not help the Japanese. They didn't helped the British either but that mainly because of the belief of white people are invincible.

The natives in the Dutch area helped the Japanese. They serve as invaluable guide, and some village even welcome the Japanese. Didn't take very long for them to hate the Japanese though.

>>29942

>>30020

Not a nazi but gf is German so I do get feels about the rape of Germany.

>>29577

why peform self harm when you cant just watch this series :(

R.I.P Mother Country

The murder of the Romanovs.

It marked the beginning of what would cause the deaths of over 100 million people worldwide in the name of communism.

History books never tell us the truth that the Godless commies were the biggest killers of the 20th century because the leftists like communist ideals, so they emphasize Hitler as the biggest monster of the 20th century when he was an amateur in comparison to commies like Stalin and Mao.

>>30035

Yeah this. The nazis deserved everything they got, but what the general population had to suffer under the red horde was cruel

>>30049

>>30035

>>29942

Germany didnt suffer any worse under Russian invasion than Russia under German invasion. If anything, Russia suffered more

>>30054

yeah but the russian population suffered because of the germans AND the soviet leadership treating them like shit. Also the german troops were far more disciplined and rape wasn't as common as it was in the soviet army, anti-partisan warfare and such was still horrible. It is quite clear that the russians lost the most people throughout the war, and one could argue that they have therefore suffered the most, but in thier case it wasn't entirley the enemies fault

>>30055

Fair enough. Its jus stupid that somehow the ruskies always get the short end of the stick.

>Bear arguably the biggest brunt of the war

>Yeah but they acted WRONGLY when they invaded the Germans! THEYRE OBVIOUSLY BAD GUYS

Come on, its WW2, the biggest armed conflict in the HISTORY of the world, its not a fucking fairytale

>>30041

Nixon, is that you?

>>30057

>THEYRE OBVIOUSLY BAD GUYS

That's burgerland for you, here in germany our president recently thanked them for liberating us from the 3.Reich. Whatever you think about WW2, such a statement is just utterly absurd

>>30041

Could you literally end your own life please

>>30057

Though mass-rape was a bit harsh, I've said in another thread that my gf's grandmother was pregnant when the Ruskies came. She locked herself in this bunker type shed thing, she could see through a slot children being thrown out of windows, heard people being raped and shot etc. I'm not saying that this hasn't happened before but I am saying that it is tragic.

>>30062

>worse because it happened to us

Anon blease

>>30064

I'm not saying it's worse, I'm saying it's a tragedy like how millions of Russians died under Stalinist rule is a tragedy and how many Russians were killed because of Nazi oppression. But even though those people were German didn't mean they deserved it any more than anyone else did just because they happened to be living in a country that was losing a war.

(not German by the way, Britbong)

>>30059

> in germany our president recently thanked them for liberating us from the 3.Reich.

Germany is pretty much bowing to everyone these days

>>30061

As opposed to figuratively?

>>30067

javol

The organized and excruciatingly painful deaths of the six million Jews of course.

>>29900

Considering the Empire barely lasted a few decades after Ireland quit, I don't think you missed out on much

probably the sheer horribleness and pointlessness of world war 1. millions died so some inbred fucks could own some territory that they would probably never travel too. the fact the it was probably inevitable is even sadder.

>>30770

Also Great War in general. Fuck the elites.

>>30770

>РИИИИИИИИИИИИИИ

top kek

>>29093

Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

All those completely innocent people wiped out in the blink of an eye all because a handful of dumbasses couldn't admit they were wrong.

>>30783

They died so America could show the World who's boss of this gym

The second world war, from Stalingrad onwards.

>>29213

>starts with "It would have happened anyway"

>Then the "Even if white people were peaceful"

>Finally "muh big bad whitey, liberals shud be ashamed"

Typical shit from people who don't want to accept reality

>>31111

You forgot slavery

>>29146

>Russian invasion of Japan

Could you even imagine how brutal that would be?

>>32258

>implying Poland is a real country

>>29115

Save me the idealism leftcom, had you read any Lenin or have actually read Stalin, and if you paid attention to history you would notice Stalin and Lenin agreed on all matters economically.

Stalin was only continuing Lenins economic plan and cancelled NEP when it became inadequate.

Next you will tell me he wanted Trotsky to be at the top of the party.

>>29118

NEP was a temporary measure required because of the current feudal economy, you cannot simply progress to a socialist economy when you need to construct capital first. Russia was an absolute shithole prior to the revolution and post revolution until rapid industrialization kicked in.

The revolution itself was a godsend, considering they actually opened public schools for adults and children, people were actually getting educated.

Stalin did nothing wrong.

>>32258

Poland would have not have gotten it's shit pushed in if they sided with the soviets initially, since the soviets wanted to form an opposition against the Germans. The soviets asked for military acess and asked to set up military bases within Poland, the Polish refused and two years later Molotov-Ribbentrop was signed.

The soviets needed the Polish land to make a buffer state between them and the nazis, it would have never come to this if the Polish agreed to the soviets offer.

>>32282

i find it hard to blame poland for not wanting ruski bases in their country.

>>32281

>>32282

/leftypol/ pls go

>>32281

You conveniently forgot that Stalin campaigned with Bukharin against Zinoviev and Kaminev in support of the NEP, and then went full circle and went against the NEP to remove Bukharin from power. He had no interest in continuing the NEP any longer than he needed it to, plus it was evident before Lenin's death that it was failing due to the scissors-crisis.

>NEP was a temporary measure required because of the current feudal economy, you cannot simply progress to a socialist economy when you need to construct capital first.

I agree with this but the fact is that the Bolshevik coup really fucked this up as they could have industrialised with the Provisional Government and then became socialist rather than causing a brutal Civil War and basically letting Lenin having free reign, even though War Communism and the NEP were completely fucked.

>Russia was an absolute shithole prior to the revolution and post revolution until rapid industrialization kicked in.

Definitely.

>The revolution itself was a godsend, considering they actually opened public schools for adults and children, people were actually getting educated.

Well, this isn't quite right is it because these intellectuals that were educated were then arrested and sent to gulags. Also, this took years to sort out and there was still the problem of having millions of orphans in Russia due to the Civil War, the extermination of the Kulaks and the Purges.

>Stalin did nothing wrong.

Well he did didn't he. His first Five Year Plan was pretty damn dreadful and resulted in a large loss of human life, and while the next two were better they also resulted in a large loss of human life. He coped with the war well, though, and to industrialise Russia in under twenty years was damn incredible. While Stalin can not be claimed responsible for all of the people killed in the purges, he was definitely responsible for the beginning of the purges and for not reigning in the NKVD because of his paranoia. I have to say, I respect Stalin but he was a bit of an arsehole.

>>32282

The Russians tried to invade them in the 1920s, why the fuck would they agree to have a military base in there? Plus they knew they had good allies with France and Britain, they didn't want to fuck that up by allying with the Ruskies.

>>32282

Richard III's reign and death at Bosworth. He governed well, and he fought bravely and literally to the death.

All of this and he's portrayed by some playwright pandering tothe Tudors as a hunchbacked tyrant.

>>32281

>Stalin dindu nuffin wrong

I hope you are joking. I really hope you are joking.

>>29942

>Feeling sad for a man that ruined Germany forever

>>32337

it's more he's feeling sad over the rape of Berlin and east Germany, which led to the Eastern and Western Blocs that divided families for decades

The reradicalisation of the middleeast during the 70s and the islamification through arab imperialism beginning at 600ad in general.

The christians of Aksum, the Sassanids, the Sunworshippers of Afghanistan, the Hindus of Pakistan, the berbers, the northafrican christians and pagans, the syriacs.

All getting trashed by this fatalistic Crapsack of a religion.

>>32344

oh come on

>>32344

>the Sunworshippers of Afghanistan

someone's been playing too much ck2

>>32375

I think he means Zoroastrianism

>>32405

The he would be wrong, because Zoroastrianism is not "sunworshipping"

>>32405

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zunbils

>>32426

I didn't mean it quite like that (I thought that the sun was significant in its worship, but Wikipedia has told me I was on the right track, since it's Fire)

>>32428

Thanks

>old history "pre commie Russia was a stinkhole"

>communism saved Russia

Not really. While Russia was backwards (Like anywhere else was a paradise) it was developing, the conditions where improving, without all the commie violence and oppression. Utopias are a communist ideal, that everything is forever doomed to be a shit and only them could bring the paradise on Earth.

Stalin did created a military and industrial powerhouse, but at what price? Slave labor? Mass purges? Cult of personality? The late Nicholas reign was child's play compared to the communist violence.

the end of dynasties and empires in the 19th/20th centuries in general are pretty sad to me. but most of all the end of the Qing Dynasty.

thousands of year of culture and tradition was almost destroyed by the civil war and communist (and in part the nationalists as well) faction. Sure change was bound to happen after shit like the Boxer rebellion but its still depressing to think about

The Fourth Crusade. The average Latin Christian crusader and Pope Innocent III just wanted an attack on Muslim held lands in Levant/Egypt, but the damn prince Alexius had to appeal to the leading barons of the crusade to help him reclaim a throne that was never really his because Byzantine politics are waaaay different than Latin politics, but the Latins saw it as helping an heir reclaim his throne. Prince Alexius promised Greek submission to the Pope, lots of money, and military help in Holy Land; all promises which he couldn't keep. This all culminated into slaughter when the bishops of the crusade told the crusaders that Greek=Muslims because they are schismatics and the crusader indulgence applied. A sad event in history indeed.

>>29093

Mongol invasions

WW1

Death of the Romanovs

Take your pic.

>>32470

>Stalin did created a military and industrial powerhouse, but at what price? Slave labor? Mass purges? Cult of personality? The late Nicholas reign was child's play compared to the communist violence.

But the thing is, Nicholas would not have been able to make Russia any better even if he wasn't removed from power. He was just way too conservative to industrialise, he even fired Witte because he was suspicious of his plans for industrialisation.

>>32656

>Death of the Romanovs

>saddest moment in history

You pick the death of one oppressive and incompetent royal family over ANYTHING ELSE in History. Christ

>>29111

>implying a time machine wouldn't be the ultimate weapon of mass destruction

>>32712

they fought off the Russians pretty superbly after the Bolshevik revolution attempted to move west through Europe

>>29107

>You will never read Cicero's Consolatio

>You will never read the lost books of Livy's Histories

>You will never read Aristotle's second book of Poetics

WHY LIVE?

>>32302

>tried to invade them

nope, Poland tried to take what is today belarus and even tried going all the way down to ukraine, they were pushed back by the red army.

>>32302

as I stated before NEP was necessary for a while and at that time it was beneficial to support it with Bukharin, but was later dumped because it was necessary to rapidly industrialize, in part due to threats from England.

>intellectuals that were educated were sent to gulags

eh, they didn't really gulag doctors and academics, they gullaged land holders and aristocrats, however supporters of the Tsar did get gullaged. But when you look at every revolution supporters of the old regime got either killed off, thrown in the ditch or imprisoned, it's nothing new really and they still managed to construct a body of education for young and old which is great by me.

>Five year plan was pretty damn dreadful

The loss of life happened due to starvation, which was caused by Kulaks burning and hiding crops in protest, this would have not happened if Stalin was quicker about collectivization but the peasantry was supporting the kulaks so he had to buy them over politically before he could remove the kulaks, ie landholders. After collectivization there was an agricultural boom, a revolution of it's own, and hunger only came when Hruschev started privatizing again post stalin.

As for Bukharin, he had sectarian tendencies at a few points but was mostly on line. He had this moronic idea of fabricating a people's religion so to indoctrinate the peasantry more easily, which went completeley against marxism-leninism.

>>32714

You're forgetting the irrationality of German policy.

>hur dur dur the world is my enemy

>hur dur Slavic menace

Mongol devastation of Baghdad. The whole MENA region could be something else today if not for them.

>>32820

I can only imagine how fucking shitty their filing system was.

>>32712

>the superpower that came and went in 100 years.

But that's pretty much every superpower so far

>>32828

No dewey system in those days kek

Any war in which young men were yanked out of their lives, lied to, and sent to die for no reason

>>32837

Man, the Somme was a total waste of life. As Blackadder said, "millions died so that General Haig could move his drinks cabinet six inches closer to Berlin"

Official thread theme.

Personally, I've always found the 80's-90's Baltic area to embody depressing history

Well depends on the perspectives really.

But if I had to try and pick the universal saddest moment for the west, it would be 1204.

Things happened in that time that should never have happened.

Brother killed brother over pettiness and only the barbarians profited in the end.

But that's idealism of a Christian I suppose. I consider it a mark of shame for Catholicism none the less.

>>29217

I don't really think so, I mean like in the first image where He was cutting down a tree that was central to the pagan beliefs but then a wind came and knocked it over (probably BS but whatever) but that was a perfectly good example of 'peaceful' mass conversion.

However for the shit Charlemagne did was mostly because the pagans living there were violent as fuck and were pretty much distant cousins with the Vikings and worshiped Wotan which was the Germanic version of Odin and needed to be dealt with one way or another, he did go a little bit overboard but he was on the right track with it.

And if Christianity had been any less centralized shit would have been MUCH worse. Sure the church owning 1/3 of all land was a bit much but without the centralization of the papacy (and I say this as a protestant) and without the religious fervor the Moors would have renamed Europe Eurabia. Mixed together with the fact a common faith was the only thing that was tying everyone together and without it the Ottomans and Muslims could have gone into Europe uncontested.

And what with the Monks preserving all the knowledge of Rome and Antiquity we would be hundreds of years behind technologically, contrary to fedora tippers Christianity was one of the biggest centers of science and knowledge in the Dark Ages.

>>32988

This.

1204 was disappointing and really fucking stupid for the Crusaders given how what mainly started the idea of Crusades was to relieve pressure off of Byzantium and ended with sacking it which led to the Ottomans conquering them and Europe getting fucked for years. Sure the Emperor at the time was being an ass but still no reason to sack a city full of Christian people.

>>29094

>I know it's exciting from the POV of Genghis, but all those massacres and the social and political change it created from Central Europe to China, and Russia to Egypt, just depresses me.

Oh, yes. All those poor Chinese slavers. First massive drops in selling prices from excessive offer, and just a little after the shop closed.

Also, poor three Russian princes who murdered envoys, hightailed leaving their troops to die and whose subjects then cheerfully traded with Mongols besieging their principalty's capitol.

And that idiot thug from Baghdad who was stupid enough to rob and beat up the guys who brought camel-loads of silver as a gift to himself, why did you forget him?

>>34915

It might have been prosperous under the Mongols but the human cost was huge, you can not deny that.

>>32759

Ok ill give you that one

>>29268

your posts are a gold mine, you make the American school system proud, son.

>>29379

six month vacation, just laws, community and religion. The only lack of things are from less advanced technology than today such as medicine and if the weather was bad plus you were not very smart you might starve. Now compare that to today.

>>34958

>just laws

what, don't pay your taxes and you'll get killed.

>>32800

>The loss of life happened due to starvation, which was caused by Kulaks burning and hiding crops in protest,

Suuuuuuuuuuure. Like there aren't memoirs.

Besides, what "Kulaks"? You know which side won the civil war, right?

The death of Alexander the Great and the fragmentation of his empire. My great reverence for Alexander aside theres just something so anti-climatic about seeing the huge borders of his empire just crack and split up like that.

>>34964

don't they already do that in America? Don't pay the IRS and the will send the SWAT team to your house. Anyways, I don't think that's actually true. I have not seen anything that indicates that and if you said that punishment was harsh I would agree with you. This was at a time where there was no police force so the punishments had to be severe, at the time crime was rampant compared to today.

>>35034

Shouldn't you be praying, Ahmed?

>>35121

what did you say, infidel? Londonistan will fuck you non-believers up.

>>29900

Don't delude yourself, it's the English empire and always was

>>29093

The fall of Rome. Just everything about it is sad. What's really sad is looking out and realizing civilazation is collapsing again.