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Infinity Cup II status- rip

Allied boards - [ Philosophy ]


File: 1450182429003.jpg (108.61 KB, 400x300, 4:3, The-History-Behind-Columbu….jpg)

f8ca7c No.33615

>1492 AD

>Not having the wheel

fdb968 No.33620

File: 1450199235867.jpg (33.76 KB, 600x526, 300:263, ca52db8bf567.jpg)

>implying


552bc7 No.33642

>1?&#

>not eating people


a703cb No.33656

File: 1450338298866.jpg (48.36 KB, 485x512, 485:512, smug oreki.jpg)

>there are cultures that never circumnavigated the Earth


dec98b No.33662

>Acatl

>Claiming you conquered a continent when all you did was importing diseases and Catholicism.


d7289c No.33713

Protestantism was a mistake.

t. Martin Luther King Jr.


f43b4d No.33727

>le wheel is super important meme


4f59a4 No.33862

>>33727

Is everything you want within walking distance of your house?


a7165c No.33864

>>33727

Not only lack of wheels, but also effective pack animals

Incans had llamas, and llamas are iffy at best and are much weaker than oxen, horses and camels


846137 No.33924

File: 1451030010004.jpg (163.75 KB, 1000x500, 2:1, Machu_Picchu_panotxt-Marti….jpg)

>>33864

think about the terrain they needed to navigate.

that's like saying Bedouins had subpar pack animals


9484ac No.34214

File: 1452311921286.jpg (117.87 KB, 755x696, 755:696, 23536573.jpg)

>Americans


cfcf3d No.34215

>>33662

>muh guns germs and steel

fuck off jared

>>33864

everyone knows the best pack animal is niggers


ba5a74 No.34245

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Related video before somebody shows up thinking that technological development works like in4X games


240d75 No.34256

>>34245

This is literally Jared Diamond tier.

>buffalos can't be donesticated. Its impossible

>yes I am aware that buffalos have in fact been domesticated, but that doesn't count


6e74c7 No.34269

File: 1452658947145.jpg (490.55 KB, 1000x813, 1000:813, hue.jpg)

>Not sacrificing virgins

Enjoy being not having sun to ripen your crops, heathens!


6e74c7 No.34271

>>34245

Jared Diamond: the tl;dr

>>34256

Well, to be fair, he did says that buffalo can only be domesticated after we have enough science to unlock the modern technology branch.


fdb968 No.34272

>>34245

>completely ignores the existence of horses in north america before they were all hunted down

also I don't get what makes aurochs less dangerous than bison


0b51a5 No.34393

>>34272

I thought that they froze to death due to being caught in the ice age.


fdb968 No.34404

>>34393

no

>The species survived in Europe until the last recorded aurochs died in the Jaktorów Forest, Poland in 1627.

>Domestication of the aurochs began in the southern Caucasus and northern Mesopotamia from about the 6th millennium BC. Genetic evidence suggests that aurochs were independently domesticated in India and possibly also in northern Africa.

>A Mitochondrial DNA study suggests that all domesticated taurine cattle originated from about 80 wild female aurochs in the Near East.

and even Africans managed to domesticate sanga cattle independently from taurine (Eruopean) and zebu (Indian) cattle

Indians domesticated water buffalo too

yak are even bigger than bison, yet Tibetans managed to domesticate them

so I really don't see the reason why bison domestication would be so difficult besides that they seem to live in larger herds


bc748c No.34412

>>34404

It's more the culture of the Native Indians. They could have domesticated them, I'm sure some tribes would have, but their culture dictated that braves should hunt the buffalo because of the danger. Also the nomadic culture of the Native Americans meant that they felt they needed to continue to move around, I mean they left anyone who couldn't come with them so that only the strong survived, retarded logic but this means that if they attempted to domesticate the buffalo then they would "weaken" or at least seem weak to other tribes. Living on land might have seemed to be "stealing" the land as well as they did not understand the possession of land, also staying in one place might have meant that they were more susceptible to attack. All of this is speculation, studied this a bit a few years ago and my teacher was a bit shit on this topic, someone who would recite Guns, Germs and Steel so I'm open to being corrected.


fdb968 No.34415

>>34412

> the nomadic culture of the Native Americans

Excuse me, they only became nomadic after they got horses from the Spanish. First explorers in the 16th century clearly describe permanent farming settlements in the plains (growing maize and beans), for example Quivira, and the first ones to become nomadic and abandon permanent settlements were the Comanche around 1700. Buffalo hunting was a seasonal ritual because they didn't follow the herds like they could after they got horses.

Actually the same thing happened in Mongolia, there are several neolithic settlements found in Dornod province, but with spread of Kurgan culture and horses in bronze age they suddenly become sparser.


0b51a5 No.34485

>>34415

so I guess that means we are back to having very few options for pack animals. So I guess we would have to look at the general behavior of the buffalo to see if it was a viable candidate for domestication at that point in time. Plus wouldn't the lack of surface deposits of metal also limit the ability to develop and grow since cutting down trees for houses would take a long as fuck time? That being the case I could easily see why many tribes just built longhouses and a bunch of people lived in them at once.


82e754 No.34597

I haven't read any of Jared Diamond's works, and his name is being thrown around here as a critique.

Is he a pseudo-historian? What exactly about his work is bad?

Genuinely curious, not defending or criticizing Diamond


f36548 No.34613

File: 1453808396399-0.jpg (39.73 KB, 682x309, 682:309, Anasazis.jpg)

File: 1453808396399-1.jpg (89.96 KB, 584x218, 292:109, moundbuilders.jpg)

>>34412

>implying they were exclusivly nomadic


bc10f2 No.34620

File: 1453841181488.jpg (257.95 KB, 1551x805, 1551:805, 1434419183800.jpg)


82e754 No.34628

>>34620

Damn.

I appreciate the information, anon.


a703cb No.34632

>yfw the French revolution was happening and Australian Abos were still throwing sticks and rocks at each other


6e74c7 No.34633

>>34620

Did Jared Diamond really said that "urban population is less intelligent than non-urban"?

I really have a hard time believing anyone would believe this. Taken out of context, maybe?


e31c2f No.34636

File: 1453892471185-0.jpg (22.03 KB, 330x244, 165:122, Yolngu dance.jpg)

File: 1453892471186-1.jpg (55.48 KB, 306x292, 153:146, abbopainting of a macassan….jpg)

File: 1453892471215-2.jpg (18.93 KB, 300x164, 75:41, Macassan and abbos.jpg)

File: 1453892471216-3.jpg (47.66 KB, 344x328, 43:41, australia metals.jpg)

>>34632

I respect west-subsaharan africans and native americans for their cultural accomplishments even if they lack behind the eurasian ones, but when I look at abbos I wonder what went wrong and how to explain their lack of sophistication.

Concerning the most notable aboriginal tribes that came ot my attention:

One of the northern tribes (Yolngu) had a history of a few centuries of trade with a tribe of malay (macassan) fishermen who came for seecucumbers and gave the abbos irontools, tobacco and cloth in exchange for Bumerangs and the right to fish without nuisances.

Skirmishes between the two groups were rare and mutual exchange of culture happened to some extend.

I could not however not find any account for the Abbos trying to cast iron or metal themselves, which should have been possible regarding their contact with sucessful ironcasters.

Neither did they insist on mimicking the massacans seafaring qualities, following their traderoute which would have led to the chinese who were in contact with the macassans because of their sea-cucumbers.

There must have been some exotic goods in australia the chinks or macassans could have been interested in and if it only were fucking kangoroos/other animals for the private pet-collection of mandarins which could have been used as a bait for the aquisition of foreign knowledge.

In these 400 years the abbos could have developed higher architecture, denser population by the gains of enhanced trade and what not.

But they didnt.

Gunditjmara are another people which developed a tather complex eel-farming technique they used to sustain themselves with food and fat which is kinda neat, but still seems like a rather small accomplishment regarding the time they had to develope.


fdb968 No.34638

>>34636

Abbos fucked up terribly at some point, or so it seems. Liberals like to claim that their culture is caused by generation upon generation of family abuse, and if this is true, they could be what is left from a culture that essentially destroyed itself.

Now, what I'm seeing here — in central Australia, there is Lake Eyre basin. We know that Australia used to be wetter when people first moved there, and that it turned into desert a lot like Sahara. What I see is a possibility of farming developing around Lake Eyre, which just like in the "Fertile" Crescent led to demographic explosion, but then the lands dried out. Those farmers started killing each other for resources that were becoming more and more scarce, and when things became really rough, they started killing their own family members. Eventually, since their numbers were much larger than the rest of native population, they spread that across entire Australia.

This also explains the complex kinship systems, which are usually expected to appear in populations with sedentary lifestyle.

The question is, since this must've been part of Australian Aboriginal culture for 10k years, how much has it affected their gene pool and is there even a way for them to unfuck their shit.


bc748c No.34645

>>34628

fyi, don't believe everything said in that /pol/ post, I've seen it debunked a couple of times (can't remember how though, to be honest)


e31c2f No.34668

File: 1453915615074-0.jpg (41.19 KB, 222x197, 222:197, nat_hut.jpg)

File: 1453915615082-1.jpg (279.35 KB, 1200x800, 3:2, Wabba.jpg)

File: 1453915615083-2.png (933.72 KB, 1024x918, 512:459, Cultural areas of aborigin….png)

File: 1453915615089-3.jpg (57.44 KB, 520x409, 520:409, australian climate.jpg)

>>34638

I didnt knew about that lake, interesting theory.

If there was such a population explosion, larger settlements would have necessarily been formed. Shouldnt there been archeological findings around the lake?

I found nothing but a pranksite:

http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/ruins-of-ancient-city-discovered-in-australian-desert/

Other stoneage cultures still build crude, but sizable stuff from boulders everywhere around the world the moment they had access to farming and thus greater populations.

So if it holds true that abbos werent always like abbos, one should find more then the rather small rock-cones (see pic) of the aforementioned eel-farming tribe that seem to represent the pinnacle of aboriginal architecture.

But while australia has its deadlands, the eastern coast has forests and a pretty moderate climate.

The race of pacific islanders that occupied new zealand (Maoris they were called, werent they?) had roughly the similar land as it is found on the eastern australian coast-snowy mountainranges, thick forests, moderate plains and an extinct megafauna-they build far more sophisticated buildings then the abbos, used cloth and a wide range of tools.

Maybe the abbos werent warlike enough to push each other to their cognitive limits?

I am certain that abbos waged wars, but the maoris surely more so due to limited space.

The only cultural underachievers, whose level of sophistication was as low as the aboriginal one but whose habitat and ressources were just as rich albeit including the lack of cows or other plow-pullers (and here we come back to OPs topic) are the fireland indians whose only notable cultural achievement was the canoo and the idea of private terretory.

I just cant wrap my head around the fact they managed to achieve so little, either its truly genetic or founded in a cultural mechanism that prevented innovation and ambition beyond spiritualism and the invention of the boomerang.


fdb968 No.34671

>>34668

>Shouldnt there been archeological findings around the lake?

Not necessarily. It depends on the building material. If they used mud or wood, next to nothing would be found. Of course one would expect tools, artifacts, but if you don't know where to look those are very easy to miss.

Maori are a lot different because they only recently came to New Zealand, and most of the tools they already brought with them.


fdb968 No.34672

>>34668

Oh and one more thing that might be a clue: if you look at neolithic civilizations, you can notice that they all developed next to lakes or rivers in middle of desert. The reasoning behind that is: as climate turned more arid after the ice age, the population of a vast region that turned into desert became confined to small space, so they were forced to become sedentary, which allowed them to start large scale agriculture. The reason why this didn't happen earlier is the fact that villages are much more vulnerable, so while you can survive as a nomad that's the preferred way of life, even if this supports smaller population. Again see >>34415 for example where situation suddenly turned the other way around and nomadism once again became more viable.

Therefore, where land is fertile, you actually can't expect early civilizations to form, as people don't have the need to settle down.


e31c2f No.34673

>>34671

>wood

Hm, depends.

Germanic settlements could be researched quiete well concerning their architecture, even though they mostly did not use stone before the romanisation, safe for the occasional monolith.

Concerning claycities, you are probably right, I cant see how these could leave remains after thousands of years.

So one should dig around the few non-arid lakes in the east and maybe the biggest saltlakes for research?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lakes_of_Australia

Could be doable with one of these new radar planes that can find the smallest disruptions in the soil.

Hidden buildings of Palmyra were found that way.

>>34672

This seems reasonable, but I dont know if there are cultures who defie this supposed pattern.

I should read into that more before I believe it, got any links?


fdb968 No.34689

>>34673

Wood is preserved when buried under mud, in anoxic environment.

I wish I had a good cover-it-all source for ancient civilizations. I'm not even sure if I know any source that explicitly postulates this theory, but I feel like when reading about different ancient civilizations, they all start on floodplains in the desert. Even China, earliest Chinese archeological evidence comes from middle reaches of Yellow River, in Loess Plateau region, and not on the vast fertile coastal floodplain, though that's where the focus moved quite early.

Also, I've been digging a bit further into reasons why there was no neolithic revolution in Australia. One of the explanations I encountered is that the climate of most of Australia depends more on El Niño Southern Oscillation than the yearly cycle of seasons, so farming cannot be used as primary source of food because of common drought years.


b1bf37 No.34935

>>34633

Franz Boas got away with forging experiments that said people's skull shape changed depending on where they live.




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