Fortified cities

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File: 1450406816132.jpg (275.26 KB, 1280x800, 8:5, AESajO2.jpg)

Fortified cities Anonymous 12/18/15 (Fri) 02:46:47 09f778 No.33669

How large were ancient fortified cities? As in, how many km in radius? I know it varies a lot from town to town, but take for instance Roman ones: Nola, Brundisium, Tarentum… I'm sure there are historical records for capitals like Rome and Carthage, but what about countryside cities and seaports?

I'm reading Livy's books on the second Punic War and when a siege is described I just can't get myself to picture it. There is this image from movies and video games of fortified cities being small, like pic related, and this other image I have from modern day countryside cities, which are considerably large to be fortified. Were there kilometers wide walls, or just a portion of the cities were fortified?

Anonymous 12/19/15 (Sat) 11:27:30 b14340 No.33674

>>33669

Are you British/been to a British city?

Generally you'll find the old walls of our cities are as big as the centre of the city then a bit more, maybe mile, mile and a halfish diameters but they're rarely perfectly circular either. Obviously though a lot of those walls were built later or replaced older walls so the Roman ones were probably smaller still.

They're nowhere near as tall as the wall in that image either, mostly they only just reach past the first stories of nearby buildings though the heights aren't always consistent either.

Anonymous 12/20/15 (Sun) 15:10:04 394ef3 No.33726

>>33669

Consider that cities in pre-industrial times were dwarfed by enormous agricultural areas that were required to sustain their population. The cities themselves mostly were just home to the artisans, traders, and government body, but these groups were infinitely smaller (if naturally much closer together) than the rural population.

To this end, walled cities like the one in your pic probably were fairly common, even though they naturally were surrounded by a thick belt of farms and smaller settlements where trade with basic goods took place.

Finally, simply consider how expensive fortifications (and the troops needed to man them) are.

Anonymous 12/30/15 (Wed) 12:14:15 dbbced No.34027

File: 1451477655817-0.jpg (2.16 MB, 3723x2791, 3723:2791, ArchStadtRomHaeuberMapA.jpg)

File: 1451477655842-1.gif (20.2 KB, 760x590, 76:59, athens_map.gif)

File: 1451477655845-2.jpg (509.46 KB, 1254x1030, 627:515, Mura_di_Siracusa.jpg)

Here are three maps:

1) Rome. The yellow zone was enclosed by the Servian Wall, the one Hannibal would have faced. When they were built, Rome wasn't CAPVT MVNDI yet, but a fairly powerful city-state.

2) Athens. The red lines are fortifications, stretching from the city to two harbors. They were called the Long Walls for a good reason, and protected sea trade routes and agricultural lands, essential during a siege. It's not the kind of wall anyone could have afforded, though, and Athens' thalassocratic empire was at the peak of its power.

3) Syracusae. The red line is the Dionysian Wall, a powerful defensive work that extended the fortified zone to the most peripheral districts of the rich Greek colony.

Scale is given, so judge the dimensions for yourselves, keeping in mind these examples are larger than average. There were fortified towns and strongholds much smaller than that.

Anonymous 12/31/15 (Thu) 11:24:59 3fe053 No.34049

Wow. I had no idea Syracuse's walls were that long. Thanks.