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Infinity Cup II status- /his/ 6 - 5 /christian/ when /christian/ got their shit together in the last 20 mins BUT WE CALLED IT DEATH WHISTLE AND WON

Allied boards - [ Philosophy ]


File: 1452060703844.png (181.61 KB, 535x466, 535:466, 1379125436406.png)

b9c57c No.34143

Title kinda says it. Basically a year ago I took a class on the classical era (for the fourth time). But I was treated to a different take on Rome's fall than the usual one. The main text was Chester G. Starr's "The Ancient World," but when we got to the fall of Rome, the professor handed us a chapter pulled from a supplementary text. Problem is, I can't remember what book that chapter was pulled from (the whole book was about the theory, prof just provided one chapter). I wanted to review it, and I was hoping you gents could help me out.

From what I can remember, it went this way.

Basically, the Emperor at the time had decided to accept a bunch of Visigoths and assorted barbarians into the empire. The author asserted that this was widely ridiculed as a stupid move by his peers and by the public, but he believed it was a calculated risk. Plenty of germanics had integrated successfully into the empire, and they were more bodies for the meat grinder and taxes for the coffers. But they had to be integrated in a timely manner. However, the emperor was busy with a fucking war in the east, so until they could be processed, they were put into camps. The camps were pretty shitty, and the people were starving while the officer in charge made bank off a black market of vital goods. Two or so odd years of this go by, and eventually they get sick of it and flipped the fuck out in a germanic rage. The busted out of the camps and basically went around pillaging and looting.

The emperor eventually engaged them in a battle, but ignored his generals and was presumably KIA (never found his body or something). Eventually the germanics settled down in little fiefs within the empire, but the problem was that they didn't really integrate past that point. They didn't pay taxes and they didn't become Roman. They were like micro-nations within the empire, unintentionally eating holes in it.

So is this ringing any bells for anybody? Because as a history buff, I'd like the opportunity to review this. It made a lot of sense at the time, but it doesn't read like it because I'm still missing quite a few pieces. I just put down what I could recall. Plus, it was just nice to see a novel theory for why Rome fell, one that wasn't a restatement or re-articulation of the other ones I've read.

6b5f2b No.34144

i havent read that book your talking about, but the gist of it jives with what i have heard.

> But I was treated to a different take on Rome's fall than the usual one.

what is the usual one? the edward gibbon meme?

but really there wasnt one single thing that killed rome. there were many, many problems that occured that brought about its destruction; it was fucked militarily and econmically, its emperors were shit for centuries, its population was ravaged by plague and pillaging, people were leaving the farms to go to rome for gibmedats, and more shit that i cant think of right now.

you should check out the western tradition my man, theres a whole hour dedicated just to the decline and fall of rome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgkraiyqmXc&index=14&list=PLYbocufkwRFAS80nLFShkXSblfcFTXwRH

it talks about exactly what you are referring to, but im not sure if its in the decline episode or the fall episode. ill webm it tomorrow.

sorry none of this answers your question specifically, and only in a roundabout way.


42a07a No.34148

The problems were several

-Demographic Crysis(epidemics, low birthrates)

-Migrant Crysis (Germanics pouring in)

-Economic Crysis (money became less valuable: from gold to copper)

-Military Crysis (Generals were too powerful)

-Collapse of the Welfare state (Vets didn't get the land they expected to have because Rome didn't expand anymore, no more bread and circus)

-Instability caused by multiculturalism and by the numerous religions (christians refused to fight, other groups teared themselves apart)

-No more war = no more slaves = no more workforce

-Bad management because there were so many puppets

And probably many more, but they were all linked to the fact that the Empire didn't expand anymore, that's when problems start to rise.


57f978 No.34154

>>34143

Hmm. Look at Guy Halsall's Barbarian Migration and the Roman West, I think it's on bookzz.org


b9c57c No.34161

>>34154

Thank you so much, anon! I could kiss you. This is exactly what I was looking for.


ea1f19 No.34218

Rome fell because Crusaders it Broke and Ottomans broke through the walls.


e56caf No.34252

>>34218

>Byzantines

>"romans"

When your culture is greek, your language is greek, even your peoples are greek then you're not roman, even if you might have the laws of a Roman (despite the Codex Iustinianus being made in 530 AD) you just have as much claiming power as the russians or the turks.

Stop.


7b6f8a No.34254

>>34252

So what's your breaking point? Justinian spoke Latin as his first language and re-conquered Rome. He's almost always considered "Byzantine".


57f978 No.34257

>>34254

Justinian is the breaking point, since he almost completely reformed Roman laws and political system. He's what transformed a skeleton of Roman Empire into Byzantine Empire.

However, this transformation is akin to China switching dynasties, yet still staying more or less Chinese.


bd8028 No.34276

I've seen a similar argument made here:

http://www.unz.com/pfrost/deja-vu/

Maybe the sources have what you're looking for.


5c0d29 No.34340

does any of this stuff remind you guys of anything? hmm


8a544e No.34352

File: 1452951918860-0.jpg (156.83 KB, 720x780, 12:13, WAKE ME UP.jpg)

File: 1452951918861-1.jpg (150.9 KB, 720x780, 12:13, CAN'T WAKE UP.jpg)

>>34340

Extremely

>mfw Western Europe is gonna be dominated soon by Muslims and blacks

>all that culture and language diversity: gone.


294cbc No.34419

File: 1453155110299.png (212.5 KB, 340x340, 1:1, 1451239298181-0.png)

>>34352

The difference is that if it happens this time, there's no coming back. The Germanics were at least capable of civilization.


57f978 No.34420

>>34419

>implying muds aren't capable of civilization

Akkadians, Assyrians, Aramaeans, Eblaites, Phoenicians, Canaanites, Palmyrans, Nabataeans, Thamudaeans, Sabaeans, Minaeans, Hadhramis, Himyarites. Oh and Israelites.


294cbc No.34422

>>34420

I meant in comparison to the sub-85 IQ moslems currently invading us. Even the leaders of their countries have told us that we're receiving the dregs of their societies.


e63cb9 No.34423

>>34420

Too bad we aren't dealing with that but we're dealing with Beduinic immigrants, aka Arabs.


57f978 No.34425

>>34423

Nabataeans and Palmyrans started out as nomadic Arabs that adopted Aramaean customs. And a majority part of Syrian and Iraqi population derives from Mesopotamian population that converted into Islam.


12a3f9 No.34545

One of the greatest reasons why it is so difficult to understand "why Rome fell" and "how" is that it really didn't, it just became something else.

At least in the West. In the East, it fell because the Empire became too in-ward looking and focused on its inter-aristocratic squabbles. They squandered their resources, manpower, and focus on useless civil wars, feuds of dynasties, and purges that they were extremely weak as a global power. While they managed against the Turks for some time, it was over with the Fourth Crusade.




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