[ home / board list / faq / random / create / bans / search / manage / irc ] [ ]

/his/ - History

Historical Discussion

Catalog

Email
Comment *
File
* = required field[▶ Show post options & limits]
Confused? See the FAQ.
Flag
Embed
(replaces files and can be used instead)
Oekaki
Show oekaki applet
(replaces files and can be used instead)
Options
dicesidesmodifier
Password (For file and post deletion.)

Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, swf, pdf
Max filesize is 8 MB.
Max image dimensions are 10000 x 10000.
You may upload 5 per post.


Infinity Cup II status- rip

Allied boards - [ Philosophy ]


File: 1457285605898.jpg (1.26 MB, 1280x914, 640:457, stokesay5.jpg)

96d9b2 No.35808

Hello, this is nodev, I'm gathering material for a concept of a slow paced rts/management game with KoDP-type diplomacy and interpersonal relations event system set in Not-Feudal Europe. I'm making this a separate thread from QTDDTT, because I expect to eventually flood the board with dozens of small questions, which will benefit from the explicit context of the project itself.

Right now the draft of it is as fallows: you play as a freshly appointed margrave (and his consequent bloodline) landing on a newly (re?)claimed realm geographically apart from the core territories of the kingdom. You are one of many as this is a large, crawling "Manifest Destiny" -esque process. The place is wild and uninhabited by any civilized people. Instead you find a handful of tribal societies of nonhumans vaguely based on not-European folklore (I'm sorry, but fantasy is too fun to not include any) and a lot wider variety of abominations with no social order whatsoever. Over the course of the early game you strike a deal with the local territorial tribe and make a purchase of a small fraction of their bountiful land (per royal decree all land you set your eyes on is your's, but the "savages" don't need to know that), you recruit some other beings (which don't have much use for territories or even civilization for that matter, since by most standards they can be considered superhuman) as muscle in return for some fancy glass beads and you pilgrim yourself from there on.

You start on a shore, right where you landed and proceed to found the initial settlement that'll serve you as the main life line with home, from which a semi-constant torrent of minor nobility's thrid-sons, outlaws, slumrats and escaped serfs will provide you with an influx of subjects. Funds and other aid will likely be sent as well. The social order you promote is good old feudalism with some alodial activity and roaming woodsmen here and there. Past the initial tent camp phase the starting settlement will have to be built in a defensive fashion. Since right now I envision the civilizational level as early-to-mid Medieval I'm thinking of a gord/motte and bailey castle town, that may or may not develop into a partially autonomous city n generations down the line. At the heart of it naturally you'll erect your own place of residence.

__________

First couple questions:

1. 3D assets aren't very flexible, which demands some planning before jumping headlong into production. Having that in mind I ask for advice on the feudal lord's capital residence system (I suspect it'll have to be modular both inside and out). I'm yet to read through any serious research on the subject, but the evolving nature of a feudal abode points me to the tower house as the root of it. However I have trouble wrapping my head around the basic concept.

Did tower houses really posses great halls? If they did that great open space must've decreased the defensive value of at least one tier. And when the building expanded the first thing that was built was a great(er) hall, correct? The tower remained the last bastion of defense, but was it modified now that it's civilian purposes were reduced? In early castles, did towers remain the main living quarters of the nobility? What character did the squarish mass of the connective structure between them take on, besides corridors containing the Great Hall? Would you say manor-form residences (not encapsulated in castle fortifications), even sturdy ones have any place in the vicinity of any real danger?

2. Bastle houses and remote village defensibility - in actual history were there many recorded examples of mostly unguarded settlements near potential dangers? It seems the populace was capable of defending themselves from raids, when security deteriorated for prolonged periods of time, but how did they settle in such conditions? Did they settle at all? Or was everything hinging on direct feudal protection and without it the social dynamic crumbled?

I lack a clear image of a pattern by which a distant (in the sense of in-game dimensions on the map) land granted to peasants is settled besides under a vassal with his own little tower and pack of roughneck henchmen. I could sort of see peasants coming in and organizing in dinky gords, ringforts or large bastlehouses from the get-go, but I'd be pulling that straight out of my ass. I'd rather model it on real life, since that generally turns out more interesting than conjecture.

9bfe8a No.35816

>>35808

Good luck dude, i don't know much about that but i hope you found what you need, sounds interesting.

Is there any game or other media that mixes the age of exploration with fantasy? like your usual medieval setting but with exploration, exploring the rest of the world and its mithology?


96d9b2 No.35924

File: 1457543547912.jpg (141.17 KB, 640x884, 160:221, mason.jpg)

3. I intend for people to be the cornerstone of industry, not buildings. Meaning a smith may move into a shack and remake it into his workshop, developing it as he gains access to more funds and imports. That way there won't be a situation, where you lack 2 units of a resource for some specialist building and therefore a whole activity is shut down for x minutes till you get them.

However this turns a staple collection of easy to replicate buildings you generally see in strategies into a complex web of interconnected professions… And I haven't the slightest idea how to map this out. Any "Medieval Jobs" book you can point me to would be very helpful. Masons, woodworkers and smiths are of particular interest for obvious reasons.

I'd also like to iron out job progressions. Think apprentice>blacksmith>brightsmith etc. Those could all function as feat trees in the units' profiles along with character traits, stats and so on.

4. Raw resources. Playing other games I conclude that making stone etc. finite is both absurd and infuriating (Banished, anyone?). The reliance on mines and quarries, when you have a population under thousand also seems like an overkill.

Right now I know of gathering iron-rich sand, probing for bog iron in swampy areas, collecting stones unearthed when plowing fields. I'd like to get a full list of these activities. Especially material for stone masonry is important, because, well, brick doesn't look so good. There's probably books on this as well, but can't find anything on libgen either.

>>35816

Thanks, I'll try my best.

>Is there any game or other media that mixes the age of exploration with fantasy?

Can't say I can recall any.


0508e3 No.36040

I'm no professional historian either, but I'll try to answer your questions as best as I can

1. I don't know enough about this topic to give a reliable answer, but from what I can tell, the most basic forms of castles originalyl were little more than fortified manors of the resident lord. With increasing threats (attackers evolving from small raiding bands to proper armies), these residences underwent more and more fortification until the first motte-and-bailey castles popped up, that is, castles which had one large tower atop situated on raised earthworks (the motte) and an a courtyard that was surrounded by palisades/stone walls or a ditch (the bailey).

From my understanding (but again, I recommend looking up other sources), the bailey effectively grew larger and larger, so that the motte/keep which previously was the dominant part of the castle became less prominent. Presumably, the thick walls around and the increasing size of the bailey(s) eventually led to domestic structures being moved there from the keep, whereas the latter increasingly became a purely defensive structures to which the inhabitants could flee if the bailey itself had been breached.

Of course, the closer you were to dangers such as hostile tribes, the less resources you typically had at hand, and the less resources you have, the less you can afford to build a fortified bailey large enough to hold great halls and the like. To this end, the keep presumably retained it's role as a "fortified home" in many border regions.

2. Again, I don't really know to much about this, but one thing that came to my mind was that churches often were built from relatively robust materials (read: stone), which would have allowed them to serve as a form of emergency shelter. Some communities also built "refuge castles", that is, castle-like structures with more-or less fortified walls around them that were not permanently settled but became sanctuaries in times of war.

That being said, life as a peasant in border regions was not very nice. Just look how the Vikings could show up with their boats, pillage and rape their way through one village, and then be off again before the local lord could mount any sort of defense.

3. From my understanding, the overwhelming majority of medieval peasants were farmers, with non-food producing groups such as lumberjacks, miners, and smiths being a relatively minority.

Now, before you actually get to build your cozy little home-tower, you technically would require at least a modicum of infrastructure to already be in place - the stones and tools needed to build the tower don't pop up from thin air, after all. With video game logic, however, you could assume that the tower was indeed the first structure of the village, and the farmers built their farms and happy little shacks around it. In this case, I would recommend having peasants start as the "farmer" class while you have a limited stockpile of iron tools and other products necessary to build houses and stuff (like in the Anno games). You'd then have to make do with this basic stockpile until you can produce your own iron goods.

4. As mentioned above, stone and metals can be imported via merchants, but this will cost you. If you intend to have the game focus on relatively small communities, most of your stuff and structures likely will be made from wood, including your "castle".


8826b2 No.36059

>>35924

>Medieval jobs

Don't forget your coopers anon, imagine how awful middle ages life would be if there were no barrels, meaning no easy transportation of alcohol meaning the masses in the city had no 'clean' drinks and had to depend on the questionable water.




[Return][Go to top][Catalog][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[]
[ home / board list / faq / random / create / bans / search / manage / irc ] [ ]