/improve/ - Self Improvement

Part 2:

First of all to become better at something you need to practice it. There may be infinite handbooks and tricks how to do things but in the end experience/training is the best

So first of all try to talk to people you don't know and possibly will probably never see again in your life. I went on a trip with friends to Amsterdam and when I took the bus my friends didn't have any problem interaction with the person sitting next and behind them. The youngster didn't talked that much but the older people were more open to talk and have a general laugh.

Secondly, try quitting forums you frequent for at least some days. You will feel isolated and you'll be more extrovert with the days as you feel the need to talk (or you'll do something productive like playing piano as I did for half the time)

Thirdly, concentrate on the conversation for 100% and try to say a joke, ask for someone's opinion, etc.

Fourthly, every 'successful' conversation (more then three times every participant has said something that advanced the conversation) review it and look how you could have better answered, how you could have looked less retarded, how you could have steered the topic to a certain direction.

Are my methods going to help me or do you have any better methods to improve my socials skills?

>>4231

I'm also lacking in the social skills department, to the point where I honestly can't get anything out beyond "yes" "no" "dunno" in a stifled voice while staring at the floor in another direction, even one-on-one. Every social encounter is a week-ruining defeat.

>You didn't socialize for a period of time

This is the big one for me, I haven't had regular conversations with people for seven years, including online, and for the last five I've been in almost complete solitude. I often go weeks without speaking to anyone at all, and whenever I do it's always simple yes/no answers, not conversations.

>You frequent a lot of online forums

True, I spent my entire teenage years only communicating outside of school using instant messaging, and I've spent the last six years on anonymous imageboards. Five of those six years was spent exclusively lurking and not writing or posting anything myself, due to overwhelming anxiety.

>>4232

The problem with all of this is that in order to practice conversation, you need to already have friends or people to talk to in the first place. If you don't have either of those, chances are there's an underlying reason or two as to why. My own being years of social anxiety, asperger's syndrome and being NEET for five years. There's no way I'm able to take any of the generic and terrible advice you find online like "go to a bar" or "talk to someone you come across while walking".

>>4233

I forgot to mention agoraphobia, I had that for many years, although this year I've made some massive improvements on that front.

Just stop caring about what other people think and be alpha as fuck.

You will alienate people with easily bruised ego's but ultimately end up surrounding yourself with other strong people.

>Try to find something to say but can't

Oh fuck, this. Why can everyone else just spark up a conversation out of thin air and I have to rely on commenting on the weather? Makes me cry tbh, I just want to be able to talk.

>>4235

>Just stop caring about what other people think and be alpha as fuck.

This is easier said than done, people can't just stop giving a fuck. If we could turn off our giving a fuck meter at our own discretion, then we wouldn't have so many problems.

>>4231

For myself, being social costs "energy". It makes me tired, irritable, and moody. I need to get away, be alone, and "recharge" if you will.

I can and do sometimes enjoy social activities. If it is with a small group of people I know well, it is much better for me.

I make sure to track my social engagements and make sure I'm not allowing myself to be a shut-in as a part of my quantitative life. I don't beat myself up over being an introvert, I recognize it, the good and bad aspects of it, and try to balance it out. :)

>>4243

That feeling of tiredness, it's possible to increase the amount of time you can spend in social situations before having to retreat.

>>4235

>Stopped giving a fuck

>Majority of friends went overseas for uni

>When everybody came back home for vacation everybody kept contact with at least 2-5 friends

>Apparently I was the only one that didn't talk to them for months

In my opinion the trick is to not give a fuck but for your close friends. Most people aren't lucky enough to have non shitty close friends.

>>4233

>>4234

>agoraphobia

Maybe you should try to want to experiment in social situations? Like some people like fucking with someone feelings..

Try to make yourself an objective what you want to get from the other person with tact. Social skills is a skill you need to train like any other skill and that is by exercising it.

>>4238

I always try to compliment them on something I heard they did or something new they have and bam you have yourself a conversation topic.

>>4244

How would you do that? By always staying a bit longer?

>>4246

I don't have anyone to "experiment on" to begin with. I'm not comfortable with the idea of performing experiments on the people I live with, because if it goes wrong I can't just walk away from it. I haven't got any friends, acquaintances, colleagues, or anything like that. I don't like the idea of "fucking with someone's feelings" anyway, I've always tried my best to leave people alone and not interfere or engage them, including my family.

Obviously that's what lead to me not developing the social basics in the first place, but I don't know how to rewire my brain to think differently when potential social situations arise. I go into autopilot mode around people that makes me avoid engaging them at all costs, and I can never seem to break out of it even when I want to. I'll often be begging myself internally to just speak up or say "hello", but it never happens.

>>4251

Hmmm, I'm not really up to it, but maybe you could find someone to skype with? Like have a weekly chat with him in what way you improved yourselves.

Anyway you should really try to find a way how to get out of your shelf. Good luck.

>>4262

>maybe you could find someone to skype with?

If I could magic a friend into existence, and magic away my social anxiety holding me back from talking to anyone, I would do it. But I can't.

>Anyway you should really try to find a way how to get out of your shell

My continuous search for the solution to this paradoxical problem is what led me here in the first place. After this many years I don't really expect to ever get over it, I'm just venting more than anything else.

>>4265

Yes. I've lost count of the amount of times I've left social situations feeling very confused. The situations simply made it glaringly obvious how left out I feel. That even in a room full of people I still feel so alone. Not even because I'm not making social contact with people, I am, on a consistent basis. It's just that said contact only contrasted the depth of the hole I dug myself in.

>>4273

iktf brah

I've already accepted the fact that I'm not sociable and probably will never be.

Not only do I not know how to spark a conversation, if I actually join some conversation of someone else, it always seems really boring and fake to me. They just keep talking about other people, parties and small things that are happening recently in their lives, or what is currently airing on TV. I feel like there is no depth here.

Really I feel like being sociable is just being dishonest, making it seem like you're really interested in stupid shit when you just don't give a shit, and do things that you don't like just to not lose friends.

Fuck this, I'm doing everything I can to meet up with the people I met on the internet in real life. If there is just a small group of people I can really talk to, and really like, then I'm happy.

>>4271

Do you get this when talking to everyone or just people you're not familiar with?

I seem to have lost the ability to talk to new people well when I'm sober, though with my old mates i'm eloquent as fuck and not at all self-conscious. I just wish I could find out why and combat it.

>>4283

>I can talk to my family members easily

I have the opposite problem, It's take me a while, even after 22 years, to have an in-depth conversation with my parents, I have no fucking idea I just get really tense and mutter instead of actually engaging in healthy conversation. This is something I need to work on within my social skills as a whole.

>>4286

I'm just wondering, what do you count as a in-depth conversation? Talking longer then 5 minutes to someone without changing the subject?

>>4291

Sorry forgot to take off name, came from a risk play.

>>4239

After grappling with it quite a bit myself, I find that not giving a fuck is like any type of impulse control, and it's therefore something you can get better at. Incidentally, controlling your impulse to, say, eat a 500 calorie jelly donut, isn't really best handled by just thinking "I shouldn't eat that jelly donut" over and over. That kind of focus on the target of your impulse can actually make it harder to resist. Instead, most of us intuitively know to go for strategies that avoid thinking about the donut in the first place, and (hopefully) stick to that until the donut never occurs to us in the first place.

Similarly, if you want to not give a fuck, you have to catch yourself in the impulse of worrying and overthinking everything, and let it go. Just abandon the whole train of thought, knowing it will have nowhere to go without you actively pursuing it. And eventually, you just stop feeling like worrying about shit all the time.

>>4331

right with you

>first course mathematics this year

>come early because no friends

>class start to fill

>armenian girl sits next to me 7.5/10

>try to casual talk to her

>everything going smooth

>class starts

>1 hour in to the class i clumsly ask her if she wants some gum without taking myself

>friends point my mistake when I proudly tell them how I got to know girl ;_;

>>4332

>try to casual talk to her

You are already better than me because of this.

But

>ask her if she wants some gum without taking myself

Yeah, that was pretty bad. Maybe taking some and then offering some to her would be a good idea? I wouldn't know.

>>4333

About the casual talk we just talked about mathematics, use the environment you're both into and try to small talk about it.

>>4341

You're supposed to use the environment to break the ice lol. That is, unless she's REALLY into math and so are you.

>>4263

Dude, join the Discord chat group. Post ITT if you want a link. It's a group where everyone(that wants to) from /improve/ can chat together.

>>4644

>Discord

Is that voice chat? There's no way on this earth that I could do that, I can't even make calls or speak on the phone without choking and immediately hanging up. Honestly, being spoken to by faceless "voices" and having to speak aloud myself is one of my worst nightmare situations, besides some kind of IRL encounter. Plus I'm on linux, and I won't just carelessly sign myself up to any online services without knowing what they'll be doing with my data. I refuse to use Skype or Facebook for example.

I can't even get words out most of the time, I just shut down and all that comes out is restrained mumbles of 1 - 4 word responses that hardly make any sense to whatever I'm being asked. Embed related, the caller in this video is the closest I've ever found to someone having the same problem with social interaction as myself, except he's slightly better at it and at least had the courage to reach out and attempt to speak to someone.

Even though I've gradually become somewhat comfortable with posting on anonymous imageboards over the last two years, you won't find me on any text-based chatrooms let alone voice-based ones, it's too much.

Post the link anyway though, I'm sure somebody else would find it useful. Maybe the BO could put a link up on the front page or somewhere that people can find it.

>>4647

It's voice and text chat. You can do either or both. I really think you should try just text chatting with us. There's no pressure, we're just channers that want to improve ourselves, same as you. The accounts are stupid easy to create and you don't even have to make one if you don't want so you can come back with a new identity if you feel that you've embarrassed yourself. The BO is often there and he's great to talk to. He can't put the link up because it expires every 24 hours, but for the next 24 hours, here it is. Just ask again if you miss it. Please come, it's great practice! https://discord.gg/0g3Wk6IMl2ixYDzc

(it doesn't look like it really respects your freedoms any more than the typical program, but it will work in your browser so you don't have to install anything)

>>4648

>>4647

Also you could just put on the voice chat option, while muting yourself, just to listen to peoples. It'd be good enough of a trainning.

That comes from someone who developped social anxiety some years ago because of a shut-in lifestyle. When I finaly got a job, I didn'T have much choices as I'm 6'8". And my height gives me either the option to respond to passer-bys or lock myself away from the outside world.

How did I fight social anxiety? By going out of my comfort zone (also going back to school really helped because I didn'T have much choice but to socialise). I'm not saying I can perfectly relate to your case (I'm at work, can'T watch your video), but I can guarantee that the only way to git gud at anything, it's by experience discomfort

>>4647

I was where you were once. Luckily I'm a good listener and would always ask questions. Normally we're all introverts and this led to our social ineptitude which would make us great listeners.

>>4648

Sorry, I didn't do it within the 24 hour period, I was busy seeing a new therapist which went fucking terribly, I couldn't speak and completely froze up, a waste of both his and my own time and I've been spending a little bit more time with family for the last few days rather than just sitting in my bedroom at my computer.

That's not to say I didn't have time though, I just kind of pussied out and couldn't do it. I dunno, things like that are incredibly nerve racking to me, and usually take me several days of psyching myself up and debating whether or not I should consider attempting it over and over in my head, and a 24 hour time limit doesn't go well with that tendency.

>>4649

>also going back to school really helped because I didn'T have much choice but to socialise

I'm still NEET, a large factor in me trying to improve myself is so that I would be able to consider going out into the world, making friends, getting a job, being able to work with people, going back into education, all that kind of stuff.

That's all impossible if I can't communicate with people and avoid most situations involving communication as if they were life-threatening though. When I went to college 7 - 5 years ago, I was virtually silent from enrollment to finish, I didn't make any friends or talk to anyone. I was a complete loner. Probably the most miserable point in my life.

>>4650

I'm a terrible listener, and I never ask questions. I never know what to say, my mind goes completely blank around people.

>>4658

Alright, well I think I can just hit regenerate and it refreshes the link. So just use this when you're ready and I will try to remember to refresh it once a day and it should(in theory) stay active. Just come in when you're ready,

https://discord.gg/0g3Wk6IMl2iECDOj

I'm sorry your visit didn't go well. Are you planning to go back?

>>4664

Hey, could you post another one for me? I'd like to check this thing out.

>>4666

https://discord.gg/0g3Wk6IMl2lFRAtZ

Link expires in 20 hours. When you join, introduce yourself in text chat, your goals and your current progress.

>>4658

We normally talk on text chat anyways, so might as well join. Voice chats are far and few between and when they do happen, not everyone joins. Most people just stick to text so you won't be alone.

>>4664

>Are you planning to go back?

I am because it's my mother who takes me, but I'm not expecting it to go any differently. I had two therapists earlier this year and it was exactly the same with them, 6 weeks of sitting in near silence and staring at my hands for 50 minutes, and then coming out the other side no better off than when I first went in, only with fresher bad experiences with people in my mind.

>>4667

I lurked for a couple of hours. It was mostly shitposting and hostility, two things I've really been trying to avoid, and when it wasn't that it was just /b/-tier stuff. Even ponyfaggotry.

I don't really want to introduce myself, talk about my problems, or even lurk in an environment like that, sorry.

To the guy that said:

>>hostility

>Confirmed for Never gonna make it

>If you can't handle the bants in this chat

>You can't handle real life

I know man. That's literally why I fucking came here. Fuck it.

>>4670

>>4670

Admittedly we have our good and bad days man. For instance, 2 days ago was a good day, and so was half of yesterday. We discussed some useful stuff, and we did some productive stuff as a group. It's hard to keep it strictly improvement related 24/7.

The cancer you saw is not a norm, and I guarantee you if you introduced yourself, that would have swayed the conversation in a different direction.

But the difference between Skype and Discord is that we can channel some of that cancer into their containment channels. So politics or random bull doesn't interfere with genuine improvement conversation. You didn't see that happen because we just joined Discord recently and aren't used to it, but I'll make sure to remind people to go to necessary channels.

>>4672

I can't type or say anything, it's too fucking nerve racking. I can't handle group discussions or people, I made a massive mistake by even thinking I should check it out. I'm not ready for real time communication at all, and I'm especially not ready for "banter", it puts me on edge and gives me panic attacks.

It's not like I can just join in with whatever you guys talk about either, I'm a friendless NEET hikki KHV with none of the life experiences you guys were talking about, and I'm generally cut off from the world besides the family members I live with. And the last thing I want is shit for any of that because it really hits me hard, that's why I only occasionally post here or on a couple of other "complete fuckup"-friendly boards, and nowhere else on 8chan, the internet, or even the real world.

>>4673

Just introduce yourself and tell us what self improvements you are working on. I know it's hard man, but you just have to make yourself do it. If you can post these posts on an image board then you can post in the chat. There are no negative consequences to joining and talking to us. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I want to help you become the best you possible. Take a chance, it can't hurt.

>>4673

This >>4674.

If you make a horrible impression, at the end of the day you're anonymous. Just make a new account and try again, considering the rate at which people join, it'll be assumed you are a new person. In which case you can try again. There is almost no accountability.

Trust me when I say you aren't the first person to be in that situation in the group. We've had a few people like this and it's a gradual thing. Initially you might just give an input here or there or just lurk. And eventually give an input here or there until you feel comfortable enough to partake.

The banter you see is between people who have known eachother for months and even then, if any of us are feeling bad, we cut down the friendly insults.

This is a necessary step, it's a small step, but it's a step nontheless and one that you ==need== to do to move ahead. We've all experienced or still have anxiety, so we could have useful advice for you. It's possible man.

>>4674

>>4675

I couldn't do it. I got as far as hovering over the keys, but I couldn't press them. All I'm getting from this is more anxiety, stress, and failure. I need to sleep.

>>4238

You can spark a conversation out of thin air, it does work.

>>4291

It's just code for "things I'm interested in"

>>4331

Was it obvious it was next to you, or were there many other obvious empty seats available (that werent very far, and werent hard to get to)

>>4231

>So, I don't think I'm retarded but a lot of times I ask/answer/do retarded things.

me too fam and I also identify myself with the reasons you posted especially 2. and 3.

Hanging out at image boards where we can say stupid and insensitive things, laugh at real life disasters and express your honest opinion on things (some of them sensitive issues), with no consequences, kind of makes me insensitive and prone to say retarded funny shit, or say my opinion when I should keep it to myself, outside the internet. Of course most of the time, I just don't say anything and people find me weird…

Last three years of my life have been quite a disaster for me. I can only better myself and hope I'll become normal (i.e. emotionally and psychologically healthy) in the near future.

>>5411

Do you advocate leaving internet forums completely where you can't say anything without repercussions?

>>5414

Not him but coming on forums in moderation has helped with my porn addiction, maybe it could normalize us a little so to speak.