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/islam/ - 8ch Masjid

Certainly the promise of Allah is true. Let not then this present life deceive you.
July 2018 Transparency Report
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"Allah is but one God. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs." [4:171]

File: ebda8782ebbda53⋯.jpg (46.33 KB, 544x800, 17:25, rene-guenon.jpg)

53444a No.27541

Guenon was a french Catholic who developed a philosophy of traditionalism (one tradition cannot contain the universal as this itself is beyond words but many traditions can express the universal). He thought Catholicism's traditionalism had become exhausted and moved to Egypt and became a Sufi, seeing as how Islam still preserved it's traditionalist nature. It's more complicated than that but there you go.

e8e07e No.27542

>>27541

Well, he brought many people to Islam, so that's a good thing; but he was also a Mason and syncretised Islam with Hindu ritual beliefs. Interesting fellow, but he is not someone to be admired or aspired to be like.


53444a No.27543

>>27542

>but he was also a Mason

Really? I'm almost sure he was anti-Mason and wrote against them and other weird societies.


3e8bbb No.27545

There's actually already a thread about tbis in the catalog, if I'm not mistaken. Just sayin'.

And to answer your question, OP, if it wasn't for Guenon I wouldn't have become a Muslim. He started my search for Truth a couple years back, and it has taken me to Islam. Alhamdulillah.

>>27542

He had a very different conception of Masonry than most masons. I don't know the details, but he wasn't a typical mason. He started his own lodge but it didn't really take off.

>>27542

>syncretised Islam with Hindu ritual beliefs.

He was against syncretism, and according to everyone who knew him in Cairo he was completely orthodox in his practice of Islam. He did believe that Advaita Vedanta and Islam (especially Sufi teachings) were identical in their metaphysical teachings.


51d1a2 No.27546

>>27545

>He was against syncretism

>He did believe that Advaita Vedanta and Islam were identical

Pick one.


b8d9b5 No.27547

>>27542

>; but he was also a Mason and syncretised Islam with Hindu ritual beliefs.

except this is false. If he was ever mason in his early years he gave it up later on. He taught against syncretism specifically and didn't practice "hindu rituals".

>>27546

>>He did believe that Advaita Vedanta and Islam were identical

in a very precise esoteric sense, not in an exoteric sense where mixing rituals and practices would ever be possible.


e8e07e No.27548

>>27547

>esoteric

>Islam

Nope.

gb2 >>>/fringe/


6c67c6 No.27572

>>27548

>doesn't understand what esoteric means

try >>>/brainlet/


e8e07e No.27573

>>27572

Esoteric - intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.

Nothing about Islam is esoteric.

http://www.arabnews.com/islam-perspective/news/726926


6c67c6 No.27614

>>27573

>dictionary.com for philosophic concepts

smh

>likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.

so the scholars fit this definition too.

but it still misses the point.

So best for you to remain silent on matters you don't understand, like Guenon.


e8e07e No.27623

>>27614

You know there's a reason dictionaries exist, right? It's so people can't run around making up their own definitions for words. What do YOU think "esoteric" means?

>matters you don't understand

Oh, I understand Guenon. I've known 1,000 people just like him, floating through life from religion to religion in a desperate search for a deeper meaning. Self-proclaimed philosophers who don't take the time to study a single thing, but rather try to find a way to obtain salvation by cherry picking the things they like from every religion and cobbling it together. They're entertaining, but lose the forest because they're trying to pluck bark from each tree.

Qur'an itself says there's nothing hidden about Islam. No deeper meaning, no difficult concepts and it is accessible to all men.

Do not mix truth with falsehood and do not deliberately hide the truth [2:42]

Allah does not want to place you in difficulty [5:6]

We intend for you ease. [2:185]

You have been sent to make things easy and not to make them difficult. [Bukhari]

Trying to introduce some mystical/esoteric concepts into an already perfect religion, God's perfect religion, could be construed as blasphemy. Tread carefully.


6c746e No.27627

>>27623

>dictionary.com

>for a technical term used by a philosopher in a very precise sense

kek

> What do YOU think "esoteric" means?

what matters is how Guenon uses the term. If you're going to critique him and his beliefs at least know what you're talking about.

>Qur'an itself says there's nothing hidden about Islam. No deeper meaning, no difficult concepts and it is accessible to all men.

Cool. And thats irrelevant and doesnt help you one bit since esoteric has nothing to do with "gnostic secret teachings for elites" or whatever you imagine it to be


e8e07e No.27633

>>27627

No, what matters is the actual definition of the word being used. "Esoteric" has a specific meaning in the English language. You don't get to change a word's definition just to suit your narrative. That's not how communication works. If Guenon has changed the definition of a word just to suit his narrative, then he's a bigger idiot that I thought.


6c746e No.27652

>>27633

>you don't get to change

He didn't change anything. The word has more than one function and application. English words can have various meanings depending on context. Specially technical jargon. His usage was closer to this:

Noun

esoterism

The inward forms of faith and religion; transcendence, mystic experience, and internal realizations of the Divine.

as opposed to

Noun

exoterism

The outward forms that religion takes; the institutional aspects of faith and religion, such as rituals, moral precepts, and institutions.

—-

> If Guenon has changed the definition of a word just to suit his narrative, then he's a bigger idiot that I thought.

You're embarrassing yourself.


16e71b No.27706

>>27623

>Oh, I understand Guenon. I've known 1,000 people just like him, floating through life from religion to religion in a desperate search for a deeper meaning.

Except Guénon *wasn't* like that. He converted to Islam in 1911 and remained Muslim for the rest of life.


3d9284 No.28085

>>27706

There is no esoterism in Islam, it's a clear religion.


2022d2 No.28172

>>28085

>esoterism : The inward forms of faith and religion; transcendence, mystic experience, and internal realizations of the Divine.

>There is no esoterism in Islam, it's a clear religion.

So it's just empty gestures, formal behavior and abiding by rules, with no internal life or spiritual dimension? Doubtful. Try again sir.


7f3d19 No.28174

Guess some people here really take it personally when their own philosophical views are questioned…

Islam is Islam. Trying to find philosophical definitions that apply in general sense and then applying it to Islam is nothing sort of stupidity. You cannot call Islam capitalistic just because it has some aspects that would be close to some parts of capitalism. You cannot say Islam has communist values in it just because some of it's values seem like some that is found in the communist system. Likewise, trying to generalise and then comparing philosophical aspects of other religions or ideologies along with Islam, indirectly implies that the person believes that Islam is just like those other religions or idelogies.

When trying to make someone understand some aspects of Islam, it might be necessary. But directly claiming that that aspect is one of the main parts of Islam is misleading. It's not something related to Islam but rather it is something, some parts of which, can be used to refer to some part that is a part of Islam.

Before you start regurgitating philosophical views keep in mind that entertaining a theory or idea is not the same as accepting it completely. And insulting other people for not taking part in specific philosophical veiws that might lead to deviation(in excess) is idiocy.


ee176f No.28177

>>27623

>Do not mix truth with falsehood and do not deliberately hide the truth [2:42]

then why do they hide the name of the god?

>Allah does not want to place you in difficulty [5:6]

then why place you on the earth?

>We intend for you ease. [2:185]

not exactly heroic

>You have been sent to make things easy and not to make them difficult. [Bukhari]

see above

havent convinced me lad


c2c4fb No.28180

>>28177

>then why do they hide the name of the god?

>they

>hide the name of the god

>then why place you on the earth?

>not exactly "heroic"

What are you exactly? Is there some sort of Geunonian religion like buddhism? Because I'm seeing a couple of pretty similar smug comments in this thread but they are from different posters with only 1/2 post each.

Anyways, we believe that all prophets were sent the same message of tawhid. So the concept of "no universal truth in one religion" doesn't apply to Islam. We worship God alone. The same one and only God of Adam(AS), of Ibrahim(AS), of Nuh(AS), of Musa(AS) of Isa(AS) and of Prophet Mohammad(SAWS).

" He it is Who has sent down to you the Book,

containing verses which are clear and precise —

and these are the essence of the Book — and

others are allegorical. Those whose hearts have

swerved from the truth pursue that part of it

which is allegorical, seeking to create dissension

and trying to give it an arbitrary meaning. None

save God knows its final meaning. Those who

are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We

believe in it; it is all from our Lord.” But only

those who are endowed with insight take heed. " (3:7)

You can take your pseudo-intellectual babbling and superiority complex back to leddit.


0caa49 No.28184

>>28177

>havent convinced me lad

It isn't anyone's job here to convince you of anything. Read Qur'an and the Sunnah. If you reject those things, then you reject Islam. If you reject Islam, then you reject God.


3d9284 No.28193

>>28177

Are you criticizing the quran?


1e808f No.28596

File: f378003475e268f⋯.png (366.86 KB, 654x481, 654:481, nasr and schuon.png)

Instead of making a new thread: what do you guys think of Schuon? I read Sedgewick's book and if even half the things he says there are true that would put Schuon way outside the pale of Islam, yet people like Martin Lings, who tend to be highly regarded in the ummah, held Schuon in high esteem. Is Mark Sedgewick a reliable source? I've head he's actually a practicing Muslim? Is that true? Has anyone read Schuon's "Understanding Islam" and what did you think of it?


eac3be No.28666

File: 839f04a9fd15c67⋯.png (899.99 KB, 1699x1800, 1699:1800, the-study-quran.png)

What are /islam/'s thoughts on the Study Qur'an by Seyyed Hosein Nasr? Is it legit or is it pozzed Perennialist trash?


1e808f No.28670

>>28666

I have an epub of it, and I've glanced at it here and there, haven't read it thoroughly yet, but it seems to be mostly fine, in fact, the commentary seems really good compared to other English language Quran interpretations. The Perennialist stuff is probably scattered throughout, and as long as you're aware of it, should be fine. My main complaint is the absence of Arabic for a Quran purporting to be a "Study Quran".


e0d6f5 No.28677

>>28193

Unrelated to the other poster but, can the Qur'an even be criticized? It's the Word of Allah (swt) after all.


0caa49 No.28678

>>28677

It can be interpreted and interpretations can be criticized.


3d9284 No.28693

>>28677

Not in the way he did.


50e3c9 No.28736

>>28085

Esotericism ('ilm al-batin) has always been a recognized and accepted aspect of Sunni Islam. There are numerous hadith referring to the "inward" (batin) and "outward" (dhahir) aspects of Qur'anic verses. Read the Tafsir of Sahl al-Tustari.

Unless you're one of those "Qur'an-only" guys.


3d9284 No.28750

>>28736

Give me an example?


41ecae No.29220

Smart guy with good intentions but moving to Egypt was a mistake and not traditional for someone like him.


7adba6 No.29275

Great intellect for a heretic




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