/k/ - Weapons

is that .357 sig?

if so, they go fast good

>>328451

Yeah, that's it

>>328461

It looks like it has about 7% higher energy than 9mm+P at the same velocity

>>328449

As far as I recall, you get a higher chamber pressure than 10mm auto and the energy it can generate is actually less. It also has less case capacity.

9×25mm Dillon was a fucking rad cartridge, I heard some company was making conversion kits for some 10mm pistol to fire best 9mm auto, unfortunately the round is hard to come by even on the US.

A bunch of .357 made it into the Argentinian market some years ago, ammo was scarce and you can't even find it anywhere now.

>>328461

>outperformed

Not really, it does perform more than other commercial 9mm, but you're not getting a lot out of it considering the pressure it works at and how uncommon it is.

>>328468

>>328476

Kinetic energy is a function of mass and speed.

9mm Parabellum

115 gr - 1,300 ft/s - 570 J

124 gr - 1,200 ft/s - 518 J

116 gr - 1,240 ft/s - 533 J

115 gr - 1,350 ft/s - 632 J

115 gr - 1,400 ft/s - 678 J

.357 SIG

115 gr - 1,550 ft/s - 832 J

125 gr - 1,450 ft/s - 792 J

147 gr - 1,250 ft/s - 690 J

147 gr - 1,255 ft/s - 697 J

Hornady 9mm +P

135 gr - 1,110 ft/s - 500 J

Gold dot 9mm +P

124 gr - 1,220 ft/s - 555 J

Federal 9mm +P+

115 gr - 1300 ft/s - 585 J

Buffalo Barnes 9mm +P+

115 gr - 1400 ft/s - 695 J

Russian 9mm +P+

82 gr - 1508 fps - 562 J

65 gr - 1967 fps - 758 J

122 gr - 1278 fps - 601 J

103 gr - 1410 fps - 617 J

.357 SIG exists because people want to shoot a fast 9mm. However if they wished, normal 9mm manufacturers and users could easily do a slight redesign of the 9mm and get the same or superior values, if that was really required in real world situations. Again: If there was some actual need for .357 SIG to exist, it would have already overtaken 9mm luger worldwide. It's a novelty cartridge.

>Nerve Damage: The Cartridge

>>328449

Isn't there some law in Italy where it's illegal for civilians to own guns in "military caliber"?

Since the military uses 9mm it's illegal in some countries because civilians can't own "military caliber" guns so Sig made a caliber that's basically the same except it costs most because less economy of scale and they added a little more power as a fuck you to regulators.

>>328554

The vast majority here has chosen and will continue to choose 9x21IMI, since it's completely identical to para performance-wise

I know during the ~2012 ammo crunch .357 SIG was super available around Seattle.

I was living there at the time, and could go to Cabelas and see empty ass ammo shelves. But they, and everyone else always had .357 SIG.

Had I a gun that I could have picked a .357 SIG barrel for, I probably would have to shoot that stuff for that time period. It's more unnecessarily different than it is bad. From everything I hear, it's basically a good semi-auto handgun cartridge.

>>328580

I was thinking about getting a conversion kit for my p226 but I wonder if it's even different enough to justify the expense. Maybe I'll get a .40 short&weak

>>328503

>Kinetic energy is a function of mass and speed.

Thanks genius.

Also, how does the rest of your post refutes anything I said? At 832J, .357 SIG is still slightly more powerful than any commercially available 9mm. We are talking about same diameter rounds and the SIG has more case capacity, so whatever power they manage to squeeze out of 9mm parabellum, they could do the same with the SIG and get a bit more. Again, like I said, it's fucking pointless, plus you're losing some mag capacity (given the same magazine size).

9x25 is a much better engineered round and case.

>>328564

I have never seen hot loads of 9x21, are those even a thing?

>>328535

it's like Buddha with a pope hat.

>>328564

What if you liked Swiss but hated kikes?

>>328590

Since everybody I know (including myself) shoots Fiocchi bottom-of-the-barrel we don't even think about Israel when we go to the range

>>328586

You're welcome my white friend.

>Also, how does the rest of your post refutes anything I said?

The answer is in your own sentence, following that question.

>At 832J, .357 SIG is still slightly more powerful than any commercially available 9mm.

>slightly

>commercially available

The only time round energy matters is when differences are ~1kJ, not a few hundred joules either way. There is no limitation in the cartridge. It is possible to increase 9mm energy to .357 SIG values. If there was a need to do this, it would have been done. Ergo there is no need to do this, and .357 is a novelty cartridge.

>I have never seen hot loads of 9x21, are those even a thing?

Yes but it isn't very useful, like I said it's mostly replaced by 9mm +P+ variants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9721mm_Gyurza

>>328725

>The only time round energy matters is when differences are ~1kJ, not a few hundred joules either way

That doesn't refute anything I said, it's the exact same thing, re-read my post, double nigger:

>>328476

>Not really, it does perform more than other commercial 9mm, but you're not getting a lot out of it…

Moving on…

>>328725

>There is no limitation in the cartridge

Yes there is, the case capacity and the maximum pressure said case can withstand are your hard limits. 357 SIG case has both more capacity and works safely at a higher pressure.

Therefore my point right here:

>>328586

>We are talking about same diameter rounds and the SIG has more case capacity, so whatever power they manage to squeeze out of 9mm parabellum, they could do the same with the SIG and get a bit more

still stands.

And last but not least:

>Gyurza

Is not the same case as 9x21IMI.

Just to be clear: I was NEVER defending the .357 SIG. I'm not sure if you have reading comprehension problems or I'm shit at making myself clear.

>>328912

Is your autism satisfied now?

>>328939

Sort of

I just hope he understands, I fucking hate it when communication fails

>>328912

>they could do the same with the SIG and get a bit more

see

>The only time round energy matters is when differences are ~1kJ, not a few hundred joules either way

>>328964

>The only time round energy matters is when differences are ~1kJ, not a few hundred joules either way

Well, that's it, you're stupid. I already said that, I never said the difference would have any significant impact, that was entirely your thing. I mentioned that .357SIG could keep on improving as a side thing to my argument, you're no focusing on it and I'm not even sure why.

Since we are at it: You're also not getting any major improvement when comparing a regular +P 9mm vs some crazy ++P++…+++ ala Russian unless you wanted the round to penetrate armor (which is a very task specific thing for a pistol round and most certainly not what OP is after).

Fucking Christ.

>>328449

It's been debated to death but .357SIG is essentially a higher pressure 9mm, or a .40 necked to a 9 for spergs that can't into technical anything. It's a slightly improved 9mm is all. Fun to shoot tho.

>>328997

I heard it has better penetration than 10mm.

What do you think of the 6.5x25 CBJ?

>>329120

>Oh god I want it

For some reason I think it would be bretty dank to have a bullpup blowback subgun with two magazines and two barrels- one for 10mm and one for 6.5cbj.

>>328468

so in other words worthless gimmick cartridge

>>329108

I'm not even sure .357sig FMJ would have better penetration than 10mm JHP. The .357 is not any faster than the 10mm, but the 10mm is much heavier.

>>329152

That's not enough barrels anon. You forgot the 12 gauge micro grenade launcher.