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File: 1450628266268.png (412.78 KB, 600x452, 150:113, 1439268617787.png)

 No.24871

I really don't like bringing politics to this place, but how does /kind/ feel about Trump's Muslim ban proposal?

I think it's pretty /unkind/ of him. Hate crimes against Muslims have risen drastically, too.

 No.24872

>>24871

Ahh, that has to go against something in the constitution.

bully b8 thread?


 No.24873

Did you know Japanese won't allow Muslims into their country?

"Their culture does not agree with ours."


 No.24874

>>24873

That's weird, because I heard there were a couple mosques in Japan and a small, but noticeable Turkish population there too.


 No.24875

File: 1450630823104.jpg (57.13 KB, 640x480, 4:3, Screen-Shot-jeb-party-640x….jpg)

I don't believe he's serious about half the stuff he's saying. He just wants this scenario to play out indefinitely:

Trump: *opens mouth*

Media: TOP 10 WAYS DONALD TRUMP IS HITLER CLICK HERE TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT TRUMP

Other candidates: See pic related. *crickets chirping*

I heard that this is essentially Trump's core business philosophy. The so-called "art of the deal." Basically, you make an outrageous demand. One that you know your client will never agree to, but one which makes you seem powerful and important. Then you allow them to work out a compromise with you, giving them the false impression that they have won. When in actuality, the "compromise" you agreed to was what your initial goal.

His actual position on Muslims is probably something more reasonable like, crack down on conservative Islam. Something which I would support.

I either want him to win, or notorious cuckold Bernard Sandals. Because of that candidate's harsh stance on corrupt bankers and his being pro-universal health care. Of course, I'm not even USA, so like, whatever.

In terms of /unkind/-ness, I think putting pressure on Muslims to conform to western standards is not a bad thing. Conservative Islam is anti-woman, anti-liberal, anti-west, anti-religious-freedom. By oppressing them, you save a lot of people from oppression.

I'm not sure to what extent you can hold a leader responsible for an increase in hate-crime. Sure, there is a correlation. However, I don't think a leader should censor himself in a potentially vain effort to control unstable individuals who were prone to violence anyway.


 No.24876

Can he save us from the TPP?


 No.24878


 No.24879

File: 1450635404081.gif (981.96 KB, 500x375, 4:3, 1448767703698.gif)

What's up with the Trump shills? Why do I have to constantly see his stupid face on every single board that I go to? If you don't want to bring politics here, why do you still do it?


 No.24882

File: 1450639002505.png (154.72 KB, 324x383, 324:383, 1433403340222-4.png)

>>24873

based japan.

the biggest differences between immigration and invasion are the rate of entrance but primarily whether the immigrants try to reshape the country to what they had before or whether they assimilate. If their country was bad enough to leave for another, then why should we let them recreate their culture here?


 No.24887


 No.24888

>>24887

Don't assume the worst, friend. They could just be mistaken.


 No.24890

>>24875

Yeah I agree, I'd either want Trump or Sanders


 No.24891

>>24879

Agreed.


 No.24895

What >>24875 said. Trump says this kind of shit for attention. That, and no matter how much you may hate the durkadurkas, the plan would be hilariously impractical and difficult to implement.


 No.24904

>>24887

/pol/ and tumblrs favorite past time is believing fake shit as long as it disagrees with them.


 No.24907

I thought trump hated the internet or something because terrorists could use it? it's hard to keep up but I think he said something about free speech not being important


 No.24908

>>24907

That's what the anti-Trump brigade want you to believe, yes.

He actually wants to deny access to the internet in areas controlled by the Salami State.

Unfortunately, he thinks that Bill Gates somehow has the power to do this. So he obviously isn't very knowledgeable about technology issues. In that sense, it's really a pity that you cannot elect the person who will end up advising the pres about cyber stuff.


 No.24911

>>24904

agrees*


 No.24912

>>24908

I think I'm fine with that. I'll need to check the /cuteboys/ map in case these's a trap posting nudes from there, but I've never made internet friends with a mudslime as far as I know.


 No.24913

>>24908

>he obviously isn't very knowledgeable about technology issues

at least he knows he isn't and that he should ask someone who is. all the other candidates always try to pretend to know everything


 No.24917

>>24913

>at least he knows he isn't and that he should ask someone who is. all the other candidates always try to pretend to know everything

What is with this selective bias? Trump has said plenty of incorrect things.


 No.24925

>>24917

That is true, he spouted that bullshit about the muslims cheering in the streets for 9/11


 No.24926

>>24875

>Conservative Islam is anti-woman, anti-liberal, anti-west, anti-religious-freedom.

What is "conservative Islam"? I've literally never heard this term before.


 No.24937

>>24926

May have meant "traditional".

Sage for unkind political discussion


 No.24941

>>24926

Well, you have Islamic feminists on one side and radical Islam on the other. I'm referring to the very significant group of Muslims in the west that is not radical (yet), but will resist any attempt at compromising their values and traditions. Even if those values and traditions do not mesh with the society they live in.


 No.24945

>>24941

>Either you're a screeching feminist harpy or you're with the terrorists!

Oh, you're one of those. Take your unkindness to /pol/, please.


 No.24946

>>24925

He was actually proven right about that. Contemporary news articles - including one written by one of the journalists criticizing him - vindicated him.


 No.24949

>>24945

Take it easy, friend. Telling people to leave based solely on them expressing an opinion you don't like really goes against the spirit of the board.


 No.24954

>>24949

It is not unkind to treat the unkind poorly.


 No.24955

>>24954

Treating someone poorly is unkindness, regardless of who is receiving the poor treatment.

Also having, and expressing a differing opinion (no matter how much you dislike it) isn't unkind.


 No.24956

File: 1450818716347.jpg (52.9 KB, 372x363, 124:121, 2826394_1340657703802.11re….jpg)

>>24945

Friend, do you know what a sliding scale is? I only mentioned the two extremes to give you an idea of where "conservative Islam" falls on said scale.

It is obviously not black and white.

Plus, /pol/ hates both of those extremes. Whereas Muslim feminists are okay in my book because they do not resemble western feminists in any way. They're fighting for the right to get behind the wheel of a car for Pete's sake.


 No.24969

File: 1450828573610.png (28.85 KB, 333x438, 111:146, Jewgirl.png)

>>24955

>expressing a differing opinion (no matter how much you dislike it) isn't unkind.

It was an unkind opinion.

>>24956

>Muslim feminists

>they do not resemble western feminists in any way

>It's just driving, stupid boyim! What are you so concerned about?


 No.24979

>>24882

Immigration isn't the same as invasion, and I feel the right wingers who make this argument are often disingenuous, because they typically have no problem with glorifying European colonialism in the Americas, Australasia, India and Africa. They also inflate and extrapolate the statistics of Muslim immigration to ridiculous levels. In Australia, the fertility rate of Muslims has dropped from 3 to 2.5 in ten years as their living standards rise, but you'd never hear anti-immigration advocates mention this.

I understand that Islamic terrorism is legitimately a problem, but your average Mohammed is not a fifth columnist, and responding to terrorism by becoming racist only furthers the feelings of persecution young Muslims face. It's a vicious cycle. It makes them more likely to become radical; when mainstream society rejects you, people often react by joining a subculture that gives them a sense of solidarity and power. The spotlight fallacy also comes into play since much more media attention is focused on violence by Muslims than against them, and people are selective in how they respond to it. Muslims are victims of 12% of ethnically motivated violence in the US, despite being 1% of the population. Even violence in the Middle East is dramatized in terms of content. Sure, beheading seems more violent than blowing someone to smithereens with a drone strike, but at the end of the day, they both leave you equally dead.

You have more chance of dying from a car crash or choking on food than terrorism, but terrorism puts a face on the danger, and its a convenient scapegoat to increase government power and patriotic loyalty to their regime. Look at how quickly devoted racists already jump to authoritarianism, just like fanatically anti-Western Muslims do. Giving up ideals like freedom of religion to "fight the terrorists" abandons the Western values of human rights and liberty that make our cultures worth preserving in the first place.


 No.24982

>>24871

First of all its a temporary ban "until we can figure out what is going on".

Is pragmatic precaution , rather than a modern version of the asiatic barred zone.

Islam is generally at odds with what the west values.

When 2/3 of Muslims believe in sharia , and many of them in western countries would rather have sharia instead western values.

I'm not to keen on having this culture in western countries.

Islamic countries are backwards barbaric inhumane shitholes , even without all this military adventurism adding fuel to the fire.

Islam is more /unkind/ than Trump can ever be with a few abrasive comments or potential polices.

>>24872

Not really , a temporary ban on immigrants or a class of immigrants is constitutional.


 No.25000

>>24979

>Immigration isn't the same as invasion

That is not at all what that other friend was implying. In fact, he was talking about the differences between immigration and invasion.

>they typically have no problem with glorifying European colonialism in the Americas, Australasia, India and Africa.

When I see them glorifying colonialism, it's more like a "haha we won" type of deal. As in, it makes sense to want to avoid having this happen to you.

>your average Mohammed is not a fifth columnist

>when mainstream society rejects you, people often react by joining a subculture that gives them a sense of solidarity and power.

Both of these points are correct. Only, it's not just terrorism that's the problem. Second-generation Muslim immigrants, feeling ostracised, are responsible for quite a few other problems. The rape epidemic in Sweden, the child-grooming gangs in Britain, and the ghettofication of poorer neighborhoods as those areas gain a reputation for being the kind of place where non-Arabs really don't want to be seen.

You're absolutely right that we don't want your average Mohammed to feel pushed to join in with those kinds of crowds, but how far are you willing to go to avoid making him feel unjustly targeted? Sweden is notorious, and a bit of a running joke, for donning the horse-blinders and simply ignoring the issue. Threatening people who say the wrong things with fines and jail time, and hoping the problem will go away somehow.

Meanwhile, this Arab security guard at my uni once struck up a conversation with me, passionately proclaiming that "the bad ones are ruining it for the rest of us with their blatant anti-Semitism and disregard for the law."

>>24969

I have no idea what you're even implying, sorry.


 No.25029

>>25000

>When I see them glorifying colonialism, it's more like a "haha we won" type of deal. As in, it makes sense to want to avoid having this happen to you.

The current migrant situation doesn't mirror European colonialism in my opinion. Firstly, Native Americans were not simply overwhelmed by waves of white people. Even with guns (which Indians later adopted) that would have been nearly impossible, because the Americas housed 1/3rd of the world population and was across the Atlantic ocean. Over 90% of Native Americans were killed by plagues before white settlers had significant presence, and even then it took centuries to expand West. There is no equivalent depopulation bomb to eradicate white people for foreigners to take over. Even with white fertility rates dropping, the same thing is happening in developing countries as their living standards rise - not even considering their high death rates. In East Asia, depopulation has been even more rapid, even if population momentum means it isn't immediately obvious. Some right-wingers take these trends and extrapolate them to extreme levels that border on fallacious, like assuming a birth rate will continue to fall for 100s of years without picking up at any point.

Many of these countries that right-wingers fear will "take over" have populations that are less than half of England, Germany, Australia or the USA. Mexico, for example, has 122 million people, around 10-20% of these people are white. Compare this to the USA, which has 318 million people. Even if every single Mexican immigrated to America in a day they wouldn't be a majority, not to mention their fetility rates are falling. The Muslim population of the USA is like 1%. Australians like to complain about the Lebansese "taking over" a country with a mere 4 million people, roughly 40% of which are Christian. Syria has 22 million people compared to England having 64 million and Germany having 80 million. Lumping in the "Middle East" as an entire race, which is questionable, it adds up to a mere 127 million people. That's multiple countries that add up to about the same as Japan. Even then, non-whites aren't all united like conservatives portray it. Arabs and Kurds often don't get along, and Chinese/Japanese/Koreans have gripes that go far back. Compare this to the incredibly friendly relationships that most Western Euro and Anglosphere states have, even ones with old historical rivalries like England and France. The concept of whiteness itself is basically a trans-continental European identity that other races simpy do not have any equivalent for, except arguably the Jews. Black Africans, by and large, see "African Americans" as dark-skinned Americans, not fellow brothers in a diasporia. Chinese people from Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong often enthusiastically express their dislike of mainlanders.

>Only, it's not just terrorism that's the problem. Second-generation Muslim immigrants, feeling ostracised, are responsible for quite a few other problems. The rape epidemic in Sweden

The rape epidemic in Sweden is very overstated. I'm not saying rape isn't a problem in Muslim communities, it is, and IMO immigrants with violently misogynistic or homophobic views should be rejected. However, Sweden has an ultra-feminist definition of "rape". Look at what they tried to pull on Assange, you basically need a written contract to have sex without a condom in Sweden or it can be called sexual assault. Not only that, but Sweden counts multiple events of rape over a period as separate charges. If a woman comes to the cops and says she's been raped by her husband multiple times, they usually attempt to make a record of every single instance. I'd also bet willingness to report (and sometimes lie) about rape would be much higher in Sweden than say, a country like Japan, which might have an officially lower rate of rape, but probably doesn't in reality.


 No.25030

>>25000

>the child-grooming gangs in Britain, and the ghettofication of poorer neighborhoods as those areas gain a reputation for being the kind of place where non-Arabs really don't want to be seen.

I'm not super-educated on Britain, so I can't comment on street gangs, but white flight and minority ghettos aren't always a permanent thing. That's why the concept of gentrification exists. Old white folks buy cheap property in shit areas, build it up, real estate values rise, crime loers, and the poor whites and minorities either disperse elsewhere or get higher paying jobs. In Washington DC there's a conspiracy theory where, due to gentrification, local black people think there's a "plan" for whites to take over the city.

>Threatening people who say the wrong things with fines and jail time, and hoping the problem will go away somehow.

I agree, we should support free speech regardless of opinion, and just because I'm anti-racist doesn't mean I agree with every misguided law against things like holocaust denial. I just don't like dichotomies, and I don't like that people are acting like modern censorship is a purely leftist thing, when really, the religious right has been at it for a long time (although obviously not the libertarian right). I wouldn't frequent 4chan and 8chan if I supported that stuff, honestly, even the liberals like me here are politically incorrect enough to upset your average SJW university student.

Thank you for your well-thought out reply. It's nice to have a board where people can politely disagree instead of having internet shouting matches. Also, nice trips.


 No.25126

I don't know. I have a muslim friend, but I don't like islamisation and would have rather had that my country stayed white. It's conflicting, I don't feel any hatred for those people, but I still would have rather had those things had been different.


 No.25132

>>25126

Controversial propositions aside there's nothing wrong with looking out for your own interests and not inviting all your friends to stay in your house. That metaphor implies that you and your government are roughly as responsible as the other and that's obviously not an insult you deserve.


 No.25156

File: 1451213641306-0.png (4.51 KB, 223x220, 223:220, multicult.png)

File: 1451213641307-1.png (5.45 KB, 263x248, 263:248, immigrant workers do our k….png)

File: 1451213641307-2.webm (7.54 MB, 640x360, 16:9, Make america great again.webm)




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