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"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." Mark 1:15

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File: 1453560437644.jpg (44.68 KB, 490x636, 245:318, 12295386_1202710539745703_….jpg)

06847d No.86

054131 No.87

Far from being an apologist, I just want to say that the major difference is that liberal Catholics and Orthodox people are just plain wrong. Like, no matter how much Catholics and Orthodox talk about gay marriage and abortion, their church and the authorities in their church, will never agree with them. Catholics appeal to their dogma and Orthodox appeal to the fathers.

What Cathodox people say about a lot of Protestant churches is true. Large liberal congregations result in a liberal church. The tail wags the dog. There's not enough emphasis put on tradition.

Independent baptists excluded. That's to me where Protestantism's strength is, in the small tight-knit churches. Because large-scale Protestantism is constantly struggling. Mega-churches bend over all the time and just look at the Episcopalians. Any standards they used to have are gone. Meanwhile, the Catholic church's view of sin and morality is the same as it was 1500 years ago. And it will be the same in 1500 years. I believe that.


06847d No.88

File: 1453564315281.jpg (143.75 KB, 960x720, 4:3, 1411218219747.jpg)

>>87

I want to make a post about sola ecclesia v. sola scriptura. If you are a Roman Catholic please don't feel unwelcome here. I want some open dialogue, and understand as a young guy who was appalled by the world and my sin, I sought a savior. Jesus Christ was my savior, and started off looking into Roman Catholicism but research and prayer led me to Reformed Protestantism.

But to get back to your original post.

> Like, no matter how much Catholics and Orthodox talk about gay marriage and abortion, their church and the authorities in their church

If you dug into church history you would realize that the teachings of the Roman Catholic church and early bishops (not bishop) of Rome is completely different.

The introduction of papal infallibility, purgatory, celibacy in the priesthood, absolution, Mary's co-redemptrix amongst a few.

Conservative Catholicism is uncommon, the liberal Catholics are already making headway. Inclusivism is pretty common among high ranking cardinals and bishops in Rome.

The big Protestant churches fall because they succumb to liberalism, likewise so do the Catholic churches. Liberalism is a fad that kills anything. You get that initial surge but it falls quickly.

> Because large-scale Protestantism is constantly struggling

Only if you deny that there isn't any struggle in Roman Catholicism.

> Mega-churches bend over all the time and just look at the Episcopalians

As Protestants we have the Bible, the teachings of the apostles and the fathers to back up our beliefs. Where Episcopalians stray is with the liberal biblical scholarship and low regard for scripture. Their disdain for biblical Christianity leads them to adopt more liberal views. It's is literally leftist bringing in their views rather than Protestantism as a theology causing this.

In fact if the Catholic church were to decide on some heretical belief (which it has - i.e. purgatory) the Pope will dogmatize it as he speaks ex cathedra, and you being a Roman Catholic must believe it de fide. Where as a Protestant I simply don't attend, and if I am a bishop in a church I break off.

You mentioned the Episcopalians, look at the Reformed Anglican church of North America which returned back its apostolic teachings and embraced an orthodox liturgy.

Sola scriptura, which is by scripture alone, in others everything whether it be a catechism, creed or confession must not contradict the Bible trumps sola ecclesia which is what Rome has.

Scripture is God-breathed (2 Tim. 3:15-17), whereas man's tradition is fallible. You as a Roman Catholic can't claim to hold scripture to equal authority since the church (ecclesia) interprets what it wants scripture to mean, and depending on the Roman Catholic apologist some will some Rome has not dogmatically defined a single verse, some a few and others around ten, point in case any effect scripture could of had in terms of its authority is diminished if not gone completely when you bring in things like papal infallibility.

You really have to step out of the circular logic Rome has you in.

If you exegete scripture properly, and this is verified by how well you are able to hold your weight in a hermeneutical debate, you get the Protestant doctrines. Liberalism is a side effect of secularism. Don't tell me there aren't Roman Catholic bishops who push for LGBT inclusivism, female ordination and whatnot. It's not an issue of theology since both sides suffer from it. See Boston College which is a cesspit for liberal Roman Catholicism to flourish.

Go in the other thread titled "Confused". God bless you Anon!


3e7de6 No.91

The Roman Catholic church is responsible for the ecumenical movement of today.

>coexist!

>all religions are the same!

Satan is paving the way for a new world pagan religion led by the Antichrist/Maitreya.


56cee5 No.97

>>88

Could you do a post(or link me to something, I suppose) on Reformed Protestantism vs Eastern Orthodoxy.

I find that, even though Catholicism and Orthodoxy are pretty similar, most Protestant apologists spend most of their time attacking things specific to Rome, like papal infallibility.


06847d No.98


56cee5 No.102

>>98

Thank you.

Number 4 is the only point that I feel is strong.

Number 1 could just as easily be applied to most Protestant churches. And Orthodoxy can hardly be considered liberal, in fact it's main draw over Catholicism seems to be that it has avoided liberalization.

Numbers 2 and 3 are certainly something a potential convert should be aware of and keep in mind, but they aren't arguments against the theology of the church. You could just as easily say that no one from, say, Vietnam should convert to any Christian church because they'll probably experience some culture shock.


06847d No.103

>>102

> Number 1 could just as easily be applied to most Protestant churches. And Orthodoxy can hardly be considered liberal, in fact it's main draw over Catholicism seems to be that it has avoided liberalization.

The point was to counter the common argument that only Protestantism suffers from liberalism.

Check out these guys on EO

http://triablogue.blogspot.com.au/search?q=eastern+orthodoxy


56cee5 No.105

>>103

Neat, thanks


089cd9 No.106

File: 1453603571651.png (760.07 KB, 1045x1024, 1045:1024, 1437152790371.png)

Seems to me like the only sure way to avoid liberalism in a church is to rely on the infallibility of the Bible.


06847d No.108

File: 1453605825540.png (96.57 KB, 1553x671, 1553:671, Untitled.png)

>>106

Amen


80c1cc No.112

File: 1453606836489-0.png (24.27 KB, 575x468, 575:468, bialik-datalab-vatican-41.png)

File: 1453606836489-1.png (27.48 KB, 575x679, 575:679, bialik-datalab-vatican-61.png)


a31c8e No.117

>>108

You had me until predestination. Give me your version of it before I write a huge wall of text, because it's not even close to prophecies, which God altered (delayed or changed through which people it eventually occured).


73fb70 No.119

>>86

I like that pic

always amuses me

>>106

>Seems to me like the only sure way to avoid liberalism in a church is to rely on the infallibility of the Bible actually BE a Christian.

Not disagreeing with you on the Bible, but believing in the Bible and being an actual Christian can be two different things.


06847d No.133

>>117

God has an elect is what I mean by predestination see my thread on Calvinism with the quote by St. Augustine as the picture.

>>119

> always amuses me

It's all yours : ^ )

> Not disagreeing with you on the Bible, but believing in the Bible and being an actual Christian can be two different things.

You crossed out infallibility of the Bible, do you not hold to the inerrancy of the Bible? I got great material on supposed contradictions in the gospel accounts by great NT scholars, even the ones Ehrman brings up.

Post last edited at

73fb70 No.137

>>133

>You crossed out infallibility of the Bible

Only so I could insert my text.

>I got great material on supposed contradictions in the gospel accounts by great NT scholars, even the ones Ehrman brings up.

kek

Thanks for your enthusiasm, brother, but there's no need for my sake. As I wrote, I am as "Biblical inerrancy" as the next dyed-in-the-wool Christian, I was just making a point that our biggest defense against liberalism is the Spirit of God Himself, not just? his Word.

I'm not belittling the Word, note. I am elevating the One who wrote it, who breathes life into us to be able to read it, understand it, and be convicted by it. All these things are FAR more important to our faith, to our staying IN the faith, than simply words on a page.

Do you follow me? I'm making a distinction between us and, say, orthodox Jews who probably know the words of the OT better than us, but have not life. Words will not save us, and that great whore-of-Babylon website the name of which escapes me, but the one which pulls the Bible apart … the anti-Bible… yeah, I forget… the Atheist's best friend website, I guess… is proof of that. They have the book, they have the words, but they have no faith.

They have not the Spirit.

This was my point, and we should always be mindful of who it is in our heads that preaches those words to us every morning.


06847d No.141

>>137

Oh yes I absolutely agree.


80c1cc No.480

>>137

They don't really have the book though, unless you meant the Talmud.




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