[ / / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / ameta / eerie / iraq / kc / lds / leftpol / vg / zenpol ]

/leftpol/ - Left Politics

Winner of the 42nd Attention-Hungry Games
/ara/ - A Place for Mothercons.

Name
Email
Subject
Comment *
File
* = required field[▶ Show post options & limits]
Confused? See the FAQ.
Flag
Oekaki
Show oekaki applet
(replaces files and can be used instead)
Options
dicesidesmodifier
Password (For file and post deletion.)

Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf
Max filesize is 16 MB.
Max image dimensions are 15000 x 15000.
You may upload 5 per post.


File: 1ce7f0c1907d86e⋯.png (85.89 KB, 1024x1434, 512:717, 1024px-Kalle_Anka_partiet_….png)

 No.36507

What are your thoughts on the LGBTQ+ discourse? I think unanimously we agree we have no problem with lgbtq people, but I get the impression from a lot of people that their entire identity is based around their sexuality or gender- it defines them, and that seems dangerous in regards to class consciousness/solidarity within the the working class. I do understand they face certain obstacles, but we cannot ignore the progress we've made in Western civilization- Europe/America are some of the best places on earth for this community. This narrowing in on identity and (unintentional) bourgeois individualism just seems counter productive, the discourse often seems absolutely pointless- at least from what I've seen in my own life. I believe there are some merits to identity politics (ie the black struggle in America) but this just makes me feel uneasy. I guess to put it harshly, I could sum up by saying "I don't give a fuck about your queerness- let's talk about wage labour or something that matters."

 No.36509

>>36507

G A Y


 No.36514

>>36507

>I think unanimously we agree we have no problem with lgbtq people

Yeah you'd hope so, but I've seen people on here, /leftypol/ and /marx/ unironically say that homosexuality is a construct of the bourgeoisie.

Idpol is bad, but I think the tendency to immediately denounces anything that does as much as address LGBT and other social issues as "idpol" can be just as harmful. Sometimes things need to be made explicit to get changes carried out. But I do agree just "being LGBTQ+" surely isn't a good basis for a political theory or position, like being straight isn't either.


 No.36516

File: 601250b02208858⋯.png (699.85 KB, 1280x919, 1280:919, oops.png)

I want a terf to fuck my tranny ass


 No.36527

File: 2be5d9b7d67d691⋯.jpg (77.56 KB, 750x563, 750:563, corp.-sponsors-for-pride-a….jpg)

>>36507

Identity has become far too commercialised, imo. It's just another way to manufacture and control the subjects of capital: even Lockheed Martin uses lgbt inclusivity as a selling point nowadays. People forget 'homosexuality' and 'heterosexuality' are modern western concepts that originated in the 19th century when the bourgeoisie state began medicalising sexuality as a form of social control. My personal aversion to identity politics is probably related to my autistic paranoid tendencies and edgy chantard adolescence, although i'm not 'straight' either. I feel a sense of tremendous disappointment RE: the modern world, an increasingly homogenous consumer wasteland that seems to preemptively recuperate all opposition. I guess that is why I feel compelled to be an edgelord and post insincere reactionary opinions online.


 No.36540

There unfortunately is a history of lgbt exclusion from communist organizations, which to my mind stems from a kind of macho workerism that echoes earlier notions, rooted in natural law, that non-hetero sexuality is unproductive. And since this same line of thinking valorizes the logic of productive forces in the same way that capitalism does, rather than seeking to overturn it and accomplish a total transformation of life, any identity or mode of personality which resists assimilation into this logic — including lgbt but also bohemians, spiritual seekers, personalists and existentialists, and eccentrics of all kinds — are deemed ‘bourgeois’ and useless to the cause. It is an irony that socialist realist paintings, with their sweaty, muscled laborers shining in the sun, smiling or brows furrowed with stoic determination, looking like something out of a Tom of Finland illustration, do not ever literally depict gay men.

Gay identity under capitalism is commodified as any identity is — this commodification is hopefully what you are reacting to, and not the genuine movement for lgbt recognition.


 No.36550

>I get the impression from a lot of people that their entire identity is based around their sexuality or gender

Sounds like you spend too much time on social media, the lgbt I meet in person are usually pretty ambivalent about it, I don't think I've ever had one actually say out loud that they're gay or whatever

>something that matters

Maybe it doesn't matter to you, but for them it can have very real consequences. Yes there have been improvements, but I'm pretty sure they're still the leading victims of hate crimes, not to mention workplace discrimination, which directly relates to material conditions


 No.36574

>What are your thoughts on the LGBTQ+ discourse?

It's generally really bad. Identity is generally best formulated on radically negative grounds. Milquetoast reformulations of queer identity that seek to formalize new gender norms are about as far from revolutionary as you can get.

>I could sum up by saying "I don't give a fuck about your queerness- let's talk about wage labour or something that matters."

Yeah, I can see how you'd feel this way when confronted with some bullshit liberal queer identity politics, but this is kind of a dumb response. Whether you self-identify as queer or not, a radical approach to identity could benefit you. Read this: https://libcom.org/library/gender-nihilism-anti-manifesto

I'll continue shill this manifesto until people stop bitching about idpol (i.e. forever).


 No.36577

>>36550

>Sounds like you spend too much time on social media, the lgbt I meet in person are usually pretty ambivalent about it, I don't think I've ever had one actually say out loud that they're gay or whatever

Where are you from anon? I feel like this is actually really prevalent among anglo and ango-like countries (US, UK, Netherlands, Germany, etc.), but not so much other European countries. It continually dominates mass media discourse in the Netherlands, for example.


 No.36580

Queer theory is anti-materialist and contributes to the erasure of LGB people. The abundance of T and Q in modern leftist discourse is pure liberal drivel that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.


 No.36581

>>36580

>Implying queer theory is intrinsically anti-materialist

Wew, could you please justify this claim?


 No.36588

>>36577

>ango-like countries

Former British empire so yeah

>dominates mass media discourse in the Netherlands

I thought it was refugees? Generally speaking though I think most of the news is made by conservatives trying to fear-monger, with the participation of the left largely limited to condemnation and solidarity


 No.36592

>>36580

>>36581

Indeed if anything queer theory is the most materialist thing to have come out of LGBT_ movement in a long time. It appeals to notions that gender expressions are indeed performative and that the social roles of the sexes aren't fixed. This seems very reasonable and highly compatible with communism.


 No.36627

>>36574

>gender abolition

does this mean I'll get trapped against my will?


 No.36633

There are only two genders: Male and Female. Homosexuals are grossly overrepresented due to subversive marxist jews hiding amongst the left…using LGBTBBQ to break nations and support Capitalist Globalism. In reality, most countries only have around 2% plus or minus of their population "queer" and such. Leftistist should be just as violently opposed to Globalism as Fascists or Pure Nationalists. It will ruin us all.


 No.36670

File: 82777039afc4483⋯.jpg (12.68 KB, 200x200, 1:1, fullretard.jpg)

>>36633

nigga you just went full nazbol

you never go full nazbol


 No.36672

>>36507

>narrowing in on identity

>bourgeois individualism

IMHO much of the discourse, I think, stems from the narcissism that many LGBT people exhibit. The constant need for attention, the signalling through use of behaviors, statements, speech patterns, costumes, etc. I think that there are many homosexuals who don't necessarily suffer from narcissism but among trans persons it seems to be a majority. I can't know what's in someone's head, but with trans people the very act of being so seems like a bid for attention. Heterosexual persons can exhibit the same behaviors by overly focusing on their own sexuality, appearance, social status, etc. But among LGBT populations the narcissism seems to really predominate.

Look at what's happening in the UK Labour Party. A biological male claims to be trans and gained a position as a "women's officer" within the party. The insanity has resulted in women being expelled from the party for opposing something so stupid. Why would a biological male want to be a women's officer anyway, other than simple attention seeking? A biological male does not have the same concerns regarding conception, reproduction, gender roles, etc.

tl;dr LGBT discourse and other forms of identity politics are destroying real political organization that could benefit working people. Sorry.


 No.36692

>>36627

mandatory hrt for everyone


 No.36717

Am I allowed to say here that I don't particularly care about LGBTBQQ and that I think the fixation on them makes the left look bad?

>But that's not the left, that's liberals!

No it's the actual left too. Apparently if I think that men who wear skirts and call themselves girls are weird that means I'm alt-right and I hate gay people and I'm spooked. If I'm being quite honest I wish all this idpol would just go away because I'm sick of having to hear and talk about it.


 No.36727

>>36633

this but unironically


 No.36761

There are some legitimate issues in the field, workplace protections for LGBTQ workers and simply opposing the division of the working class but there is absolutely excessive focus and yes fixation on LGBTQ issues that exists in large swaths of the Western left. At best many of the issues only tangentially affect working class people. At worst it's shit only a small but very loud and shrill minority cares about which discards any pretense of working class politics for an identity without regard for class distinctions. Pretty much the same boat as bourgeois feminism, anti-racism, etc. Time better spent devoted to workers issues is used language/tone policing, which I'm sure suits the capitalists just fine.


 No.36777

>>36627

>>36692

as a compromise I propose that everyone will be injected with equal amounts of testosterone and estrogen.


 No.36825

>>36717

>because I'm sick of having to hear and talk about it

Sounds like a real burden for you

>>36761

>excessive focus and yes fixation on LGBTQ issues that exists in large swaths of the Western left

Examples plz


 No.36868

>>36717

i've never actually met a tranny irl, but at least some of the ones on imageboards seem like cool people. I don't see any logical reason to hate them or anything, yeah, their representatives on the media are obnoxious, but so is everyone else on the media.


 No.38387

File: 2cb9b2421c73c78⋯.png (59.15 KB, 660x527, 660:527, Trap.png)


 No.38400

>>36825

>Examples plz

Here in America for example this is particularly evident in the Marcyite parties, the WWP and PSL. Both of these parties put an inordinate focus on "queer liberation", "trans liberation" etc in their literature as well as in person at demonstrations. I recall just recently some PSL members walking around with signs demanding "Stop violence against trans immigrants!" "No more deportation of trans immigrants!". The sentiment itself might not be misplaced but one must ask, why the focus on trans immigrants in particular? Surely as socialists we ought to be opposed to violence against ALL working class immigrants? And not only immigrants, but the working class as a whole? That is the main issue here and with identity politics in general, they may not mean to do so but they are in practice de-emphasizing class, which ought to be the primary factor for socialists. And while I singled out the WWP and PSL, this is a phenomenon which exists in varying shades in most organizations in the American left. The FRSO certainly indulges in this, as do some of the various Trot parties. DSA tends to be a heterogeneous group but certain chapters are reportedly swamped with identity politics.


 No.38895

I think you mean LBTQP+

Gays got dropped for being too mainstream and they recently added pedos to the list.


 No.38944

>>38895

edgy

weird thing is that it's only the anti-queers that are fighting to protect child marriage

why is that?


 No.38960

>>36672

Gays and lesbians are really low-key and always were, due to the need to be in the closet because of discrimination. Now that they are open, they are integrating to "normal" society at such a rate that gay bars are dying.

Shit, there are even open right wing homosexuals that are accepted by their ideological communities, like that soulless vampire Peter Thiel or ex-Breitbart reporter Milo, which would be unheard of in previous decades.


 No.39051

identity politics is not individualism you dolt


 No.39057

>>36516

terf art is disgusting


 No.39079

BBQ discourse?

>Beer me

>Look at this guy, king of the fucking grill over here

>Needs a bit more time on the coals m80

I think this means we're being systematically oppressed by capitalism


 No.39129

>>36507

>What are your thoughts on the LGBTQ+ discourse? I think unanimously we agree we have no problem with lgbtq people, but I get the impression from a lot of people that their entire identity is based around their sexuality or gender- it defines them, and that seems dangerous in regards to class consciousness/solidarity within the the working class.

This is mostly because lgbtomgwtfbbq people are often defined by this status in society and so it can end up being their sole source of identity. No matter where we go or what we do, if we're out of the closet we're usually "the faggot" in the social group. That's largely a product of our social issues being the current front for social change, similar to how black people were (and often still are) "the black one" even in friendly groups. It's hard to establish an identity for yourself with this as your life's background radiation, and identity is important social capital in our spectacular society. That's the background. I think the solution is to welcome us faggots, not as others but as comrades, and provide a sense of identity as a comrade that can displace lgbt identification as the cornerstone of one's sense of self.


 No.39186

File: fe2368c030f2b6b⋯.jpg (186.98 KB, 640x427, 640:427, Milkwaukeenaziconfrontatio….jpg)

>>36507

>>tfw /leftpol/ doesn't have an Anarcho-queer flag

As a MtF differently abled male bodied person I think that Socialism and Queer rights go hand and hand.

Look at Adolf Brand or John Henry Mackay of the late 1800s, Queers are here to stay in Leftism. The right has to hide their gays anyway, we don't.


 No.39203


 No.39208

>>39186

>As a MtF differently abled male bodied person I think that Socialism and Queer rights go hand and hand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_under_communism#Association_of_fascism_with_homosexuality_by_communists


 No.39212

>>39208

>Soviet writer Maxim Gorky remarked, "Exterminate all homosexuals and fascism will vanish."

based


 No.39216

fun. I find homosexuality disgusting. However I also find shit disgusting, yet I do shit. When I do, I do it in privacy. This should be the case for sexuality in general.

All they do is annoy people by saying ridiculous things and being uncultured. I personally hate the LTGTHPGTHTTPWWWQ because it stands for nothing. Literally just a bunch of depraved and spoiled brats throwing shit on the walls.

Here's another thing I hate: sluts. Sluts who walk around in short spandex shorts and act immodestly. I hate Islam too, but I can definitely empathize with their view on women. Bad apples should be incinerated so as not to corrupt the bunch. Virgins are scarce, and that will affect future generations of children with whorish mothers. Whorish mothers and effeminate fathers equal jailbait and convicts. If I could flick a switch that would destroy every family like this, I would do so without hesitation.

Being stalwart in the face of temptation is more important than you could possibly imagine.


 No.39243

>>36672

Stop throwing LGB people under the bus. It's literally only T and Q identified men who start these shit-stirring matches.


 No.39279

>>39208

>>39212

>the USSR was socialist

>>>/leftypol/


 No.41023

"What are your thoughts on the LGBTQ+ discourse? I think unanimously we agree we have no problem with lgbtq people"

There is no such thing as LGBT the concept is offence to gay men and nonsense.

The LGBT is a feminist co-option of the old GLBT.

Men and gay men face issues that privileged lesbian women do not face, calling gay men LGBT submerges their issues into female ones.

For example when a serial killer in the 90's was targeting gay men, you have lesbians waving placards, end violence against lesbians and gays. Even though the gay slayer only targeted gay men, the entitlement and disrespect was unbelievable.

Feminism is anti male and anti working class women are the gender bourgeoisie. So the LGBT must be rejected out of hand utterly.


 No.41107

File: 0fca5e99eaa69a7⋯.png (242.35 KB, 510x346, 255:173, 06a.png)

>>38387

That take is almost Zizekian, transgenderism is a form of surplus that cannot be contained by the symbolic order i.e. the State.


 No.41303

>>41023

LGBT was always a political category more than anything deeper than that. But why did the political category exist? Patriarchy was the enemy of both gay men and women. It was important to put up a united front, especially after the AIDS crisis which killed something like 1/3 of the gay male population. Lesbians did a lot of the work to keep the whole thing going.


 No.41359

Just been banned from a leftist discord group full of feminists and lgbt types.

Those people are cancer.

They are co-opters, and the LGBT movement has nothing to do with gay rights, it is a feminist front.


 No.41364

>>41303

"LGBT was always a political category more than anything deeper than that. But why did the political category exist? Patriarchy was the enemy of both gay men and women. It was important to put up a united front, especially after the AIDS crisis which killed something like 1/3 of the gay male population. Lesbians did a lot of the work to keep the whole thing going."

This is historical revisionism and nonsense.

It was called the GLBT before feminist women told gay men "to check their privilege" and then took it over.

Gay men took all the risks and did all the rioting, faced all the legal discrimination that lesbian women did not, then women took it over when it was safe to do so.

The LGBT is a nonsense term, gay men are not lesbians.

When gay men get queered b ashed and murdered, it is gay men getting murdered, not Lesbian Gays bis or trans getting murdered.


 No.41391

>>41364

>not trans getting murdered

<what is trans panic?


 No.41395

Of course truly beautiful transgender people or traps do not play SJW type games, or engage with this Tumblr-esque feminism.

The true form of the transgender girl is to have the logical intelligence and physical strength of a male, and the feminine charisma and elegance of a female.

But humans themselves are fragile. We are not gods.

When a transgender person, even the most ideal, is threatened by religious or political attack upon their existence, even just news articles or mere insults thrown at them without hesitation, they'll feel weak inside.

They will hurt, because despite their strength, loneliness will crush even the strongest and wisest among us.

So they're forced to join factions. The media is controlled: Thus they see open arms only towards SJWs, the new form of Feminists, and towards LGBT political groups.

This is not ideal. Tribalism or being forced to conform to groups is what weakens individuals Now if the group itself has a noble shared vision, such a thing could lead to harmony and a better life.

Yet these groups, these SJW/Feminist/LGBT+ factions, are not good or pure. They are controlled by unknown authorities that write the rules, write the limits, write the ideals, and whom write the objectives.

So what is a transgender person to do?

They look right, and see enemies who hate them.

They look left, and see morons who give them a dopey, zombified smile.

The transgender person has no choice but to join the SJW zombies. The rest of the world is too hostile to survive without joining up with a group, even if the group is tainted.

Thus the transgender person is made to look like a fool, despite what they could have been in a better world.


 No.41396

>>41395

What's with the retarded spacing? Shouldn't you fuck off to Reddit?


 No.41401

>>36507

>LGBTQ+

I dont think there is a G anymore because gays had too much privilege.

But they are thinking of adding a P for pedos.


 No.41402

>>41395

Some transgender people are mature enough to simply be happy despite what others might think.


 No.41897

>>41402

T. A passing tranny


 No.42049

>>38944

What Muslims are all for child marriage?


 No.42160

>>39057

no not


 No.42529

>>36507

We must get rid of or cure the alphabet parade. After all, sex is procreative only and must be used to construct more workers.


 No.42541

There has got to be a better naming convention than throwing a bunch of letters together.

>LGBTQ+

Doesn't Queer already cover the plus as a catch-all? If you have a plus do you need a Q? It' clumsy, and people take it as an excuse to add more and more letters, like LGBTQIA. And then there's the thing where sexual orientation and gender identity aren't the same, and I for intersex adds a third category of people who fall outside the sex binary.

Nothing against any of these people (I'm one of them) just a gripe with the discourse.


 No.42544

>>42541

Kill yourself, comrade


 No.42545


 No.42554

>>42541

I hate the ever accelerating journey to absurdity that the acronym is taking too, but tbh "queer" is the language of gay bashers and some of us went through our youth hearing it explicitly in that context. People can call themselves whatever they like, but I'm not prepared to tolerate being labelled that way because some college kid who kissed another girl once and then read Judith Butler thinks she's "taking it back".


 No.42556

>>42554

I don't like "queer" either. I was just discussing it neutrally. I'd much rather have LGBT+ than LGBTQ. And the L going at the beginning is a whole other mess.


 No.42561

>>42556

I don't see why there needs to be a blanket term at all, mile-long acronym, "reclaimed" slur or otherwise at this point. The conditions that necessitated it being a political bloc don't really exist in most western liberal states the way they used to and many of the issues still faced by this or that category don't really overlap that much. imo it's passed it's expiry date and that's a good thing. No need to cling to that collective identity anymore, especially since it now seems to exist largely so that young white girls from wealthy backgrounds can have an unchallengable minority status to wear as a fashion accessory.


 No.42563

File: 28e88894ed0e937⋯.gif (994.14 KB, 500x211, 500:211, 1433803636597.gif)

>>42561

I don't disagree with any of this, and you articulated some things I was trying and failing to.


 No.42583

I agree. It's most likely just a mental illness.


 No.42587

>>42545

Absolutely degenerate


 No.42592


 No.42614

>>42592

ow the edge


 No.42616

>>39186

Holy kek what a fucking faggot. You sodomite boyfucking bugger paedos are all talk but are huge cowards in the streets. Homosexuality is a result of never once been in a fistfight.


 No.42618

>>42616

That said I believe ISIS has the right idea of throwing you subhumans off roofs. Just imagining your pathetic scared queer faces as they're about to pummel down 7 stories onto concrete makes my dick really hard. Fuck I think I'm gonna go fap for a little.


 No.42651

>>36507

>I think unanimously we agree we have no problem with lgbtq people, but I get the impression from a lot of people that their entire identity is based around their sexuality or gender

Exactly. They are a distraction from real problems. Their narcissism has halted progress around the world. And I'm saying this as someone who once considered going tranny. Do not give these people your attention, they will destroy society.


 No.42729

>>42618

>totally not a repressed homo


 No.42744

File: d2e0d50ae2fea9d⋯.png (1.16 MB, 800x2000, 2:5, coxcomb.png)

>>36507

Building your identity around your sexuality is the same as inviting the public into your private life. Why give up that privacy?


 No.42755

Gender and sexuality are not important. I don't mean the issues faced by lgbtq people don't matter, I mean it literally does not matter what gender or sexuality you are. The very definition of spook. If the most interesting thing about you is your gender or sexuality you're FUCKING BORING. People make a big fucking deal out of it when it's really not.


 No.43296

Mental illness made to undermine our cause.




[Return][Go to top][Catalog][Nerve Center][Cancer][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[]
[ / / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / ameta / eerie / iraq / kc / lds / leftpol / vg / zenpol ]