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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

A collective of people engaged in pretty much what the name suggests

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File: 238b5b98b0a2be0⋯.jpg (289.89 KB, 920x896, 115:112, Central-Europe.jpg)

 No.2812052[Reply]

Why do conservatives always cite post-Soviet Eastern Europeans' views on the horrors of communism in order to refute Western socialists, when Eastern Europe's response to communism ever since its fall has been to elect autocratic, oligarchic, corporatist far-right governments who actively undermine the power of their own national judiciaries and restrict freedom of the press.

Fucking hell, Poland literally banned saying that Poland had anything to do with the Holocaust. Sure, Soviet communism wasn't all sunshine, but it really does seem like Poles, Hungarians, and Czechs aren't actually all that much wiser for having experienced it.

12 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.2812424

>>2812418

Tbh sometimes I think that it would have been smarter for the Soviets to back non-communist governments in some Eastern European countries, but pressure them into adopting a pro-Soviet foreign policy. Similar to India and Egypt, which were capitalist but in the Soviet sphere. It probably would have led to less unrest and anti-Soviet uprisings.


 No.2812488

>>2812424

And after they've outlived their usefulness, you just run over them with tanks, right?


 No.2812883

File: 3b02719ee82558c⋯.mp4 (15.09 MB, 1280x880, 16:11, BO visits leftypol.mp4)

>>2812207

>This is extremely exaggerated.

it is not.

>I'm from one of those ex-socialist countries on the map and it was nowhere near as dystopian as you make it out to be.

I did not want to sound dystopian. I might have not used kind words, but I believe that liberal capitalist regime is much more dystopian.

>There were churches, christians and different art genres (discouraged but still present).

I never said it was not legal to be christian or artist, you just could have been harassed by police because of that.

>Metal and punk fans and artists are generally rightists or anarchists so nothing surprising here.

>Hair dye is useless.

<cultural discrimination is OK as long as it doesn't affect me

>People didn't skip work, it was encouraged actually, even for students.

People did skip work, but you are right that it was highly encouraged. While lot's of people, mainly members of labourer class, did show up at work only in morning and evening to be in evidence and not be marked as missing, pubs around were full of proles which should have been officially working. On other hand yes, lot's of people, even those which spent their normal working hours at pubs, volunteered often, on expense of their vacation, for socially important projects such as dams, bridges and so on.

>Tapping people's phones was done mainly if you were someone with influence.

Proles living in socialist regime had more influence than people in capitalist regime.

>There was propaganda in the media before, during and after Communism, typical for every ruling class/party.

Yes, of course. I was just pointing out that official, open propaganda was much more efficient to organize people against the regime than our current state of media, when all important ones are owned by owners or big corporations.

>I have different things left from mPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


 No.2812902

>>2812052

>when Eastern Europe's response to communism ever since its fall has been to elect autocratic, oligarchic, corporatist far-right governments who actively undermine the power of their own national judiciaries and restrict freedom of the press.

You say that like its not something right wingers in other countries envy.

>It is true that all property owners and bankers had their assets seized, farming reorganized to coops and so on

Good.


 No.2814973

>>2812173

You make a good point but exaggerate quite a bit.




File: f57f4b9098553a6⋯.jpg (2.42 MB, 5472x3078, 16:9, cars-city-citylife-63505.jpg)

 No.2812370[Reply]

How would transportation be arranged under socialism? I would imagine there would be less cars and more public transportation options.

10 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.2812677

>>2812377

so is china, that isn't an excuse


 No.2812751

Trains and thats it

no buses because those would require streets

small scale cities would be best less than 150 people though


 No.2812752

>>2812377

in more than one way


 No.2812771

Hopefully there will be bullet trains. Thats what I want.


 No.2812797

>>2812650

>The only automobiles remaining will be ambulances, police cars, firetrucks, waste collection vehicles as long as automated waste collection via pneumatic tubes isn't established, construction and maintainance vehicles and transporters for delivering goods. These cars will all be electric.

There should be some opportunity for enthusiasts to own and drive a car. This is so ingrained in our culture that we won't get away with banning it completely. Just make it impossible to commute like that.




File: 08d2767f80f8e62⋯.jpg (89.41 KB, 620x620, 1:1, 1549110208717.jpg)

 No.2810151[Reply]

Post & debunk racist/contheo/poltard memes.

>pic related

>The Hebrew symbol for the number 6

It's called a letter. The 6th letter. And writing numbers with Hebrew letters takes into account the addition of their values. "ווו" will get you 6+6+6 which is 18, not 666. To get 666 you'll need תרסו or any other combination of letters whose sum equals to this number, like שמש גיגי. On top of that image's blatant retardation, one of these lines is longer than the other two, which is a different letter seen on the middle row, leftmost. And that letter's value is 50.

Explaining the retardation-tier further:

>F is the sixth letter in the alphabet

>#FFF is white in short hex color code

>666

>whiteys are literally the devil

63 posts and 24 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.2812691


 No.2812709

File: cc874c9c9713bbe⋯.png (181.4 KB, 1136x810, 568:405, Udklip.PNG)

File: 145cc0645e8a270⋯.pdf (310.77 KB, Race_Economic_Inequality_a….pdf)

>>2812452

I spent half an hour trying to confirm this with BoJ sources, and only found data indicating the exact opposite.

Maybe someone should make a counter infograph


 No.2812743

>>2812709

>Maybe someone should make a counter infograph

Absolutely not. That's not how you engage these people.


 No.2812745

>>2812743

Yes it is. You're not having a conversation with fascists. Fascists don't say or believe anything because they believe it to be factual, they say and believe what they need to say and believe to win the argument and to legitimize their goals in the situations.

They don't hate black people because they believe they have lower Autism Levels or because they believe they commit more crime. It's the other way around. They need to believe that they commit more crime or are stupid because they hate them. So it's not them that we're having an argument with anyways - it's the moderates that may be swayed and manipulated by their rhetorics.


 No.2812786

>>2812745

This thing has been posted here for four fucking years and someone has looked into it at least once a year.




File: 1f7919f4422a553⋯.jpg (5.36 MB, 4032x3024, 4:3, 20190210_024512.jpg)

 No.2811452[Reply]

cozy times at uni

post your setups for a slightly stoned anon bros

fun fact reslife gave the whole flat an email ordering us to take down a commie flag we put up in the window the other week

32 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.2811696

>>2811695

Idk you can't get cloth flags on amazon/ebay so far as I know. Brits dont have a flag fetish like Americlaps.

TBF I've never looked though so who knows.


 No.2811705

File: 86a17669e40169e⋯.png (77.96 KB, 2000x1441, 2000:1441, 86a17669e40169e49a9f6ed4ea….png)

File: bf84b12d172bf83⋯.png (152.27 KB, 2000x1333, 2000:1333, 105fee90869516724bef46d5d2….png)

File: d111149711ef3d1⋯.png (128.17 KB, 2000x1000, 2:1, Antifa.png)

File: c63d4c44797418d⋯.png (33.79 KB, 2000x1000, 2:1, c63d4c44797418db1761c139e0….png)

File: 0989087fbbc5478⋯.png (28.25 KB, 666x444, 3:2, 0989087fbbc5478283419f492e….png)


 No.2811737

File: aa01b22dc9a7567⋯.png (20.5 KB, 1280x640, 2:1, 1280px-Flag_of_Afghanistan….png)

File: bb3cf664bfe41cd⋯.png (49.33 KB, 1280x914, 640:457, 1280px-Flag_of_Albania_(19….png)

File: 7a03f6a3acce7c3⋯.png (103.5 KB, 1920x1152, 5:3, 1920px-Flag_of_Bulgaria_(1….png)

File: f2ed5c3012796f2⋯.png (178.01 KB, 1920x1280, 3:2, 1920px-Flag_of_Romania_(19….png)

File: 0b5f7e505d6608c⋯.png (6.43 KB, 1920x1280, 3:2, 1920px-Flag_of_the_People'….png)


 No.2812670

File: 1ccd5534145bbd7⋯.jpg (274.59 KB, 597x497, 597:497, 1ccd5534145bbd738b253c353e….jpg)


 No.2812779

>>2811452

I hate being at uni. Everyone here is a lolbert or an anti-social arsehole.




File: e6a8691411a9281⋯.jpg (45.97 KB, 640x400, 8:5, korea hitler.jpg)

 No.2812685[Reply]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNb-twWyEz8

CaPiTaLiSm Is ThE mOsT mOrAl SyStEm GuYz

but seriously it's pretty hilarious how the slavers will just talk to him openly, that's how tolerated it is.

 No.2812721

File: 55401d15bc11a90⋯.jpg (37.29 KB, 400x465, 80:93, 55401d15bc11a90d03d636d8bf….jpg)

I cant wait for liberals and retarteds to bitch and moan about muh human rights abuses in nk. But when shit like this happens in sk they zip the fuck up or say THERE ARE WORSE THINGS GOING ON IN THE NORTH.




File: af2a0c7f7783546⋯.png (29.42 KB, 741x568, 741:568, DD825767-5DE6-45BF-A313-51….png)

 No.2812695[Reply]

Capitalism has lifted millions upon millions out of poverty, while communism has slaughtered millions. Government regulation is the miasma that strangles human prosperity. A minimum wage, for example, actually increases unemployment and drives up the cost of production. Competition ensures innovation. Funny how every Marxist economy has been stagnant and rife with problems. Class differences don’t matter, capitalism is THE system which allows the peasant to become a king. There is no alternative

13 posts and 8 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.2812731

File: 649b1c908ee0748⋯.jpg (133.51 KB, 960x823, 960:823, 012f3a25230f7a6583561bea6e….jpg)

File: d4eb58e4c137bf4⋯.jpg (43.76 KB, 500x394, 250:197, 6d628d918f855077203e3c4a3d….jpg)

File: 11bf11ec12f566f⋯.jpg (1.62 MB, 3990x2245, 798:449, 333152a5836aa8dc1cca94217e….jpg)


 No.2812732

File: 3b90f56f3fc0f6e⋯.jpg (391.44 KB, 751x1754, 751:1754, ee78546227b0023c28a2da557b….jpg)

File: af8f53b58fa8766⋯.jpg (138.46 KB, 960x960, 1:1, af8.jpg)

File: 47ab4d0aeeebab9⋯.jpg (50.42 KB, 750x757, 750:757, 47ab4d0aeeebab970ab1e72daa….jpg)

File: 62c283db21ca999⋯.png (12.07 MB, 3623x4372, 3623:4372, 62c283db21ca999f73be6db887….png)


 No.2812733

>>2812727

>no argument

Very observant. I'm not trying to argue with some clown who thinks economics isn't a soft science. I'm just laughing at you.


 No.2812740

>>2812727

>Literal cult shit

I think it's like one guy who got really deep into Hegelian dialectics. It's great though. There must be some sense in it.

> I thought Marxism was a “science” in your delusional minds? Funny how widely accepted real science is rejected here..hmmm makes me ponder

We're not here to copy-paste arguments to you from books. If you're really interested you'll look those up yourself.


 No.2812971

>>2812695

>>2812708

>>2812719

>>2812720

>>2812727

Come back when you graduate from middle school.




File: 1b7c917322060fc⋯.jpg (76.07 KB, 1024x768, 4:3, Our Guys.jpg)

File: 0bc5c13dd2148fc⋯.jpg (17.05 KB, 728x425, 728:425, Latin America.jpg)

 No.2789398[Reply]

With so much happening in Mexico, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Brazil and other countries, I think we should have a Latin America general. Any news and information on aforementioned and other Latin American countries is welcome.

81 posts and 19 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.2806934

>>2806851

Does he play the ukelele


 No.2807149

>>2804686

look at carter foundation on the elections


 No.2808047

File: ce6c43a8a195656⋯.jpg (30.25 KB, 396x624, 33:52, 473923.jpg)

I am currently doing a bit of catching up regarding the whole Venezuelan thing. I very often hear the claim about Maduro having a very low approval rating but literally no article I have read shows the approval rating of the opposition parties. Does anyone have any opinion polls in this regard?


 No.2812441

>>2803665

it will get worse. 6 months ago argentina took the biggest loan in the history of the IMF. the next government will face a severe crisis.


 No.2812625

File: 43e0bda694b4c08⋯.png (116.61 KB, 344x281, 344:281, sad bat.png)

>>2812441

Neoliberals really are snakes. They purposefully tie the fate of their country to supranational institutions which cucks even the weakest socdems from making any improvements whatsoever. Watch a leftist government come after Macri completely powerless and we get a re-run of Venezuela.




File: 83bfcaab99cc21b⋯.jpg (26.38 KB, 400x484, 100:121, ecosystem-work.jpg)

 No.2808613[Reply]

Have you ever felt like it's pointless to put so much time in politics? I'm seriously starting to lose the small hope I had. It feels like for every socialist there is, there are 5 retarded reactionaries who won't ever consider your position or have an honest discussion about their beliefs. It's becoming increasingly more depressing, how can people not care about humanity or the world's resources? Can we actually change people's mind over this shit before it's too late?

Everything's going to shit and it's time to either take extreme measures or sit back and enjoy the show

46 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.2812547

>>2808987

This post shows a poor understanding of marxism. Capitalism is unsustainable internally. It's not about whatever funds the enemy has, it's about historical change driven through "dialectics", although I think we should reject that notion entirely nowadays given how unscientific it is. Today, we would rather express the dialectical process as retro-active loops and feedback systems.


 No.2812555

>>2808915

Asia is a lost cause, Africa is where we should be focusing.


 No.2812557

>>2812556

Zealandia is a lost cause. Atlantis is where we should be focusing.


 No.2812566

>>2808713

I play out elaborate fantasies in my head.


 No.2812571

>>2808985

And also being, you know, leader of one of the main political parties in Russia and publishing for Second International parties and unions, the same organization that reduced the workday all over the globe so retards like you now have the free time to post boomer "hurr commies dont work" shit here.




File: 323621d81b9d9bd⋯.jpg (95.4 KB, 720x948, 60:79, image0.jpg)

 No.2802555[Reply]

Mexico general.

I haven't found any compilation of communism in Mexico, and I have a brainlet tier knowledge of Mexican history, but some highlights in no particular order:

>President Lázaro Cárdenas nationalized oil, expropriating large landed estates and distributing land to small holders in collective holdings (ejidos), tried to secularize (and inculcate leftism) in public schools (but peasants where church-cucks and fought back so he had to desist), legalized communist parties, granted asylum to Trotsky (RIP in Picks), among other great leftist strides.

>World renowned artists, Frida Khalo and his husband Diego Rivera were both members of the communist party and up until this year, were the images that appeared in the highest (actively) circulating money note.

>Diego Rivera, along with Siqueiros and other muralists, painted murals of the struggle of the indigenous people and the oppression they suffered. Siqueiros, a hardcore ML, led a failed attempt to assasinate Trotksy.

>Mexico also has a long history of labor unions, although they were eventually coopted by the government and are still in cahoots and deeply corrupt. Of note is the CTM which started out as an honest and very progressive labor union, but eventually became an unofficial branch of the ruling party through which they effected influence.

>Subcomandante Marcos and the EZLN, troubled history with the Mexican government to assert themselves as independent. Very based. The indigenous leaders write some essays which are #woke as fuck.

>EPR (Ejercito Popular Revolucionario), lesser known than EZLN, are an armed revolutionary army which have carried out multiple terrorist attacks, one of which cost the Mexican state 100MM USD per day (unclear how many days) (according to the english wikipedia article). They have also fought against many armed forces and in one attack cost the mexican government 30 troops.

>AMLO (Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador), elect president by a huge landslide, accused of being a populist and of wanting to instill Venezuela """communism""" in Mexico. Largely leftist rhetoric. Insists on dismantling the "mafia of power" (aka the corrupt ruling party and the corrupt bourgPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

20 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.2806952

>>2806941

Fue un alivio cuando termino ese pedo pero como entraron mas ahora van a seguir chingue y chingue como si fuera a pasar algo, ya estoy hasta la verga, y mas por que aqui en el norte seguramente es peor

>>2806949

Yo nunca conoci a nadie en la escuela ni ahora que trabajo que supiera de corpus christi y si conocian lo de tlatelolco era muy basico y no sabian que tan severo fue


 No.2806955

De las peores cosas dentro de la politica nacional reciente fue lo de Venezuela, de verdad fue tan ridiculo ver a los weritos ""liberales"" apoyar a Guaido y a los EEUU pensando que en realidad se buscaba ayuda humanitaria, no podia creer que haya gente tan pendeja, pero por lo menos fue como un 50/50 entre los que apoyan a Guaido y los que estan en contra del golpe de estado criminal,


 No.2806994


 No.2812300

>>2806994

holy shit, did the factories actually leave matamoros? that blows


 No.2812434

>>2803495

>>2805752

que pedo, otro regiofag aqui. no me consideraria marxista per se, por no haber leido suficiente, pero al menos si izquierdista ;). tengo puro amigo fresa liberal :'( no tengo con quien rebotar ideas. como esta su situacion?

>>2812300

I'm not really up to date with the situation, and the article claims that 15 out of 45 companies already left, but, it's not easy for businesses to simply abandon factories and leave. This could very well have been a coordinated power-move to scare workers and/or politicians.




File: 00e5f88f7e3ed9e⋯.jpg (1.28 MB, 1263x1600, 1263:1600, marx.jpg)

 No.2812008[Reply]

How have socialists states past or present handled the issue of domestic labor? The issue is more important than some may think and obviously varies from household to household but it is not incorrect to state that most capitalist states are composed of at least two very different exploitative class structures: enterprises and the home. In the a non-capitalist class process undeniably occurs. Raw food materials are transformed into finished meals, dirty rooms are cleaned, clothing repaired, etc. Of course, commodities are rarely produced but this labor can easily be exploitative. One person in a household typically performs surplus labor in these situations which are appropriated in the form of surplus products. Of course, the domestic division of labor is usually with the woman as laborer and the man as appropriator, but the same exploitative process can still occur to either gender. Before it is laughed off as non-issue, I have seen the destructive effects of a too-rigid division of household domestic labor in the past and know that it must go beyond my own home. Will socialism seek to slowly abolish the isolated, inefficient domestic economy?

Some words of Engels to think about (MECW volume 47):

>True equality between men and women can, or so I am convinced, become a reality only when the exploitation of both by capital has been abolished, and private work in the home been transformed into a public industry.

10 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.2812275

>>2812255

>hurr stop criticizing domestic labor and its exploitative and inefficient nature!1!

If you’re truly a Marxist you shouldn’t be afraid of a ruthless criticism of every that exists


 No.2812282

>>2812270

Kollontai had many similar ideas to the basic gist of what you described, she’s the first who got me seriously thinking about the nature of the family outside of Engels.

For anyone who hasn’t read Kollontai, definitely read:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/kollonta/1921/theses-morality.htm

Some of it gets a bit subjective in my mind but she has some interesting views on the inefficiency of the domestic economy and how the nuclear family is partially a result of capitalism.


 No.2812357

>>2812275

>addresses 0 points raised

Right back at you, hypocrite.


 No.2812363

>>2812357

I hope you’re not unironically wondering why no one decided to take your post seriously due to your snarky tone and comments about “real socialism” (OP only asked what various socialist countries have done regarding domestic labor) followed by a reductio ad absurdum over people getting their ass wiped by professionals. There’s nothing to address and your post is just retarded


 No.2812368

>>2812363

I thought they were replying to a different post. >>2812275 I'm sorry.




File: e071f3f14386f74⋯.mp4 (10.49 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, disgust.mp4)

 No.2809754[Reply]

Are there any journal articles wherein the researchers not only ask survey participants if they identify as pro-capitalism/socialist/etc, but also ask how they would define the economic system they're in favor of?

There are plenty of studies claiming things like "50% of people from 18-35 identify as socialists," except they follow this up with another figure from a question like "do you think a strong government is necessary to solve today's complex economic problems, or do you think a free market is capable?" This mode of questioning leaves a divide between the represented identities and beliefs I think could be shrunk or eliminated altogether.

I'm planning a survey of my own at my uni - in some respects I'm looking forward to the shallow responses ("Bernie/AOC 2020 is socialism!"), while also dreading the fact that the alleged 50% socialist population is far from true class consciousness.

1 post and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.2811329

Being meticulous with the meaning of the term Socialism is complete a waste of time, and it's the sort of thing only new socialists waste their time with. And besides, what would asking people what their exact idea of Socialism is prove? A left-wing liberal can say things that sounds exactly like all the concrete political programmes and demands that Marx drafted or influenced in his life, both having arrived at it through completely different philosophies.

>The gallup poll concluded with this gem:

>Whether the appeal of socialism to young adults is a standard function of idealism at that age that dissipates as one grows older, or will turn out to be a more permanent part of the political beliefs held by the cohort of millennials who have come of age over the past decade, remains to be seen.

If you think that doesn't happen, I'm sorry to say but you will be really disappointed in the future.


 No.2811589

>>2811329

>A left-wing liberal can say things that sounds exactly like all the concrete political programmes and demands that Marx drafted or influenced in his life, both having arrived at it through completely different philosophies.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? If this were the case, then there would be no need for Marxism to arise in the first place - in other words, it would not be necessary for the method of dialectical materialism to arise and for the proletariat to, through it, come to a recognition of its true interest simultaneously along its actual growth, to supersede capitalism. Bourgeois ideology limits the power of the proletariat, insofar as the means of socio-historical development are not with the hands of the masses themselves (and this is at the heart of marxism, the recognition of reality as a social process, a world of experience founded upon the relations between men created by men themselves) but are separate from them, and only appear to them as an illusory union. What else is his point with the divorce between political life and social life? We are alienated through the bourgeois political process, it can only carry the semblance of progress, as it is necessarily a capitalist party in the end (referring to Democrats here).

Have you forgotten how the Nazis disguised their party as socialist? It is not at all out of the imagination to think that the Democratic party may consider, short of calling themselves socialist, at least claim to support a number or two of "socialist" policies. Do you see what the issue is here? If the party is (theoretically - obviously this requires competence) to cull the progressive wave across the country, it will have to rework its image. This isn't impossible, and so any correlation between the two - Democrat propaganda and the new Socialists - is worrying to me. Republican party is already on the wayside, where else would mass popular support turn? This mass, I'd also claim, is increasingly politically active young people, becoming engaged in politics for the first time - and continually engaged - as a result of the spectacular (almost feudal) nature of American media on politics.

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

 No.2812100

>>2811589

>Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

You see how you followed that with an inane rant characterized by an ambarrassing attempt at sounding "theoretical"? This is called insecurity. It stem from the fact that I said something you were unaware of, and now you're reflexively parroting as many Marxist-sounding empty phrases and trying to write some TL;DR shit so you can to prove your "knowledge", and none of it is landing anywhere near the point I've made.

So yes, I have an idea of what I'm talking about, you obviously don't, and what I said in the passage you greentexted is just a matter of historical record, so don't bother me with more of your undergrad shit.


 No.2812302

File: 8101dcc53c80598⋯.png (452.92 KB, 722x771, 722:771, coolcat.png)

>>2809754

Yes, fellow citizen. I would very much enjoy aquiring knowledge as to the push and pull factors of socialists. It will be usefull to the liquidation of suspected antigovernment assets research in my own university studies. Peace, as they say.


 No.2812311

File: 11610561fe66402⋯.png (37.28 KB, 1280x1483, 1280:1483, tfw to smart.png)

>>2812100

>"you're insecure"

k

>none of it is landing anywhere near the point I've made

the only real point you made (besides noting that it is in fact the case that self-proclaimed socialists grow out of their politics as they get older) was that a left-wing liberal can come to making the same demands as a marxist, though through liberalism/whatever you want to call bourgeois ideology. If class consciousness is not a prerequisite of the institution of socialism, enlighten me. At face value, without further substantiation, what you wrote sounds like bullshit, and that's what I was replying to

>So yes, I have an idea of what I'm talking about, you obviously don't

convincing argument. You dont appear intellectually superior by simply ignoring what I say and simply writing it off as "parroting, empty phrases, trying too hard," yaddah yaddah. If you have a point, make it. Quit posturing and go ahead. The worst part is that I didn't even say anything about the gallup poll line besides it being a "gem" - more importantly, its irrelevant to a discussion on the present scale of socialism's appeal (and not only that, but the appeal of *actual* socialism (cant think of a better word) as opposed to the "socialism" of the democratic party (muh healthcare!))




File: c2848ab3e63b510⋯.jpg (15.02 KB, 240x240, 1:1, Anarchy Symbol.jpg)

 No.2807451[Reply]

How do anarchists define "the state"?

What exactly is the anarchist critique of the state?

Also, are there any anarchist critiques of western political philosophy (Plato, Aquinas, Hobbes, Locke, Hegel)?

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 No.2811434

The most basic, reduced anarchist definition of the state is the monopoly of force So, effectively, those who have the power to impose their will over society at large and the mechanisms they use to achieve it. Police, military, legislative bodies, etc, are all part of what maintains the state, which ultimately runs on the threat of repression.

>>2811082

>immediate statelessness is the core defining aspect of anarchism

>Anarchy means no rulers, not no state

ok retard


 No.2811658

>>2809507

>durr goberment mafia

The damage that mafias do is that they compete with one another. Monopolies are good. The problem is competition, all competition in government and internal economics heavily outweighs the benefit of a change in the provider. Competition in protection services lead to disatrous situations and your perceived unjustness of a non voluntary exchange would pale in comparasion.

Why are you complaining that you have health care? It doesn't make any sense other than will worship and will to power. Which is irrational.

Anarchism, like capitalism, is based on the idea that monopolies are bad. It's the same idiotic idea that good policy, or good business, can only come from the vampirically sucking the blood of the competition.


 No.2811945

>>2807451

>Anarchy is always going to orientate towards true democracy because of the morals of the individual and the need to form tribes.

>I love the idea of Anarchy but we doubt that we are civilized enough to achieve it.


 No.2812213

I think most anarkiddies here would agree with having a state so long as it didn't run the country unfairly based on the personal preferences of those in office. There are some things that just don't concern the state, but in many places they do, and we call it fascist. The existence of a state is good to keep shit together, but if you can compare its actions to a fascist's ambitions, it's bad.


 No.2812603

>>2812213

I can't speak for anyone else, but I disagree.

The state is coercive and alienating by itself. It creates a privileged class by enshrining inequality in law. The state is always a conservative institution. It can only seek to conserve and preserve society as it exists by enforcing the status quo or at most begrudgingly tracking the changing sentiment of the demos. It adds nothing new or good which cannot be achieved by the people themselves in a voluntary collaborative society.




File: 3903b1569a1d6a3⋯.jpg (95.6 KB, 1200x769, 1200:769, GreenNewDealAnnouncement.jpg)

 No.2812121[Reply]

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 No.2812163

use the US general


 No.2812166

>>2812124

not necessarily but it american government makes sure anything green only helps the ruling class just look how many houses al gore owns


 No.2812167

>create millions of jobs

>clean manufacturing

>while achieving net zero greenhouse gas emissions

literally impossible

This is just going to be a handout to various groups of porkies


 No.2812169

>>2812127

>Carbon taxes

100% guaranteed way to make Americans hate this demsoc shit right off the bat. What fucking idiot would think this is a good idea? Build us some fucking trains first.


 No.2812223

>>2812122

Fyi you can crosslink threads same way you link to replies. >>number

You can also do >>>/board/number for other boards.




File: 91df48c0551a0f0⋯.jpg (21.16 KB, 264x303, 88:101, Lenin-1.jpg)

 No.2811544[Reply]

>advocated participation in a powerless, counter-revolutionary Duma whose conservative members were all there due to corrupt electoral processes so he and his party could push for an agrarian programme that called for american-style capitalism in the agrarian sector

lmao who invited the lib

 No.2812126

>>2811546

no u


 No.2812129

>American style capitalism in the agrarian sector

I didn't realise the NEP was about pushing for sharecropping…


 No.2812135

>>2812129

Isn't that what the first wave of land redistribution actually resulted in? Rural people were given land fairly equally and different levels of luck and skill led to the land concentrating in the hands of kulaks while the unlucky peasants became sharecroppers. This is why collective farms were necessary and why farming in capitalist states is also "collectivized" only under large agribusiness rather than cooperative or state owned enterprise.


 No.2812146

>>2812129

Lenin saw sharecropping in the South as being similar to Russian tsardom. He was mainly focused on agriculture in the rest of the US where land was broadly held and cheap. He argued there was a Prussian and an American path—and thought the latter was superior for a number of reasons.

Even French-style land redistribution leads back to large capitalist farms and estates similar to those countries where feudalism was most highly developed prior to capitalism (such as Britain). Lenin knew that capitalizing on the hate peasants had for the aristocrats was good politics but I do think his notion of a Prussian/American path is spurious tbh


 No.2812153

>>2811544

Lenin explained this in LWC though




File: c71cd1f137e0820⋯.jpg (210.05 KB, 660x440, 3:2, inessAYPt24542.jpg)

 No.2812132[Reply]

Why did she selfishly steal Lenin from the workers? Was she a false revolutionary sent by French capitalists to distract him?

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 No.2812144

>>2812141

Most Russians and slavs in general do. IMO it makes them more attractive.


 No.2812151

Evidence that she was trying her hardest to make him fall in love with her (and distract him from the revolution):

"Even his initial unawareness of her intense interest in him had an appeal to her, but she found him irresistibly fascinating, and she absolutely had to have him."

>>2812143

Yes, this also applies to Mrs. Krupskaya, who ruined Lenin and Stalin's relations 2 years before L. died over some frivolous argument. She knew what she was doing just like Armand. If I were Stalin, I'd have gulag-ed her. But Maria Ulyanova arguably acted in Lenin's best interests (unless I've missed something).


 No.2812188

>>2812151

>Yes, this also applies to Mrs. Krupskaya, who ruined Lenin and Stalin's relations 2 years before L. died over some frivolous argument.

they all made up soon after incel


 No.2812198

>>2812188

>Incel

Is this some nervous tick for you liberals?


 No.2812210

>>2812188

Is that your alternate story?

>Stalin fought with Krupskaya over the phone because she was telling Lenin political news when the doctors' orders strictly forbade that.

>Krupskaya fell into hysterics. She decided not to tell Lenin, but for some reason told Zinoviev and Kamenev, who then told Lenin.

>Lenin dictated the "testament" and an angry letter asking Stalin to apologize to Krupskaya and him.

>Stalin wrote that he hadn't done anything wrong, but that he would still apologize to them.

>Lenin got a stroke right before receiving the letter and never got to read it.




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