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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: f3dee7de51816cc⋯.jpeg (123.83 KB, 1200x800, 3:2, serveimage.jpeg)


What's the leftist opinion on Teddy K? I know he talks some shit about "leftists" but that seems more about "American liberals".

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Ehhh, the extended family has existed before and for far longer than the nuclear family.



I don't know how that reads but I meant to turn migrant workers AND local workers against capitalists.



>I meant to turn migrant workers AND local workers against capitalists.

If /pol/ thinks we want to destroy nations because of this, yes, we want to destroy nations.



You could always be a nazbol anon.


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Obviously everyone points to his critiques of leftists/liberals, but I think it's more worth noting his theory of disruption of the "power process". It's basically just a description of Marx's theory on alienation. The only thing that I disagree with him on is that the problem isn't industrialized society in general but the capitalist mode of production. Instead of a revolution to regress society to primitive-communism, progressing it to socialism and then communism would be a more efficient way to deal with the problems of alienation we face today.

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were da juice responsible for slavery. just found it while larping on pol.

>pic related

also found this link



Obviously not. The material interests of competing European states were responsible for slavery. If Jews hadn't been there another demographic would have done it.

But the Jews being disproportionately involved in slavery is a lie as well. There are some well-research articles refuting the claim. Just Google it.


Pretty sure there was more than 15 slave ships. So… yeah… not sure what point they're trying to make.


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Without computerization and automation, reaching communism is impossible. As such, didn't the Bolsheviks jump the gun and do nothing but give capitalists a chance to spin lies about a country doomed to collapse? The revisionism that brought the USSR down could have been prevented by using computers that didn't exist at the time to track party members, and the economic stagnation that the USSR faced in the 70's and 80's could have been avoided if computers were implemented to design the increasingly complex (with each plan the economy became more connected and intricate as the volume of goods produced and people fed grew with population) and increasingly ignored (due to revisionism).

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A top of the line commercially available Intel can do 700 GFLOPS,

In 1997 a Supercomputer hit 1 Teraflops.

Supercomputers now are hitting 50+ Petaflops

Which is 50 thousand trillion a second.

check out the table at the bottom of the wiki page to see how much cheaper a GFLOP and TFLOP is now too.



Strictly speaking, no. Manual planning techniques, in the USSR and the rest of the Eastern Block, proved perfectly sufficient for expanding primary industry (mining, heavy industry, chemical industry, military industry, etc.). The types of inputs are not terribly varied, and there aren't an enormous amount of potential outputs for that sort of industry.

The problem is that manual planning of the Stalinist kind, while effective in kickstarting industrialization, is insufficient for managing either the consumer economy or a tertiary industry like advanced electronics. The USSR didn't have the resources to provide the same level of consumer goods as the West, but they exacerbated the gap by not embracing and advancing cybernetic planning.

As >>2865604 points out, in some ways it was the cyberneticists who jumped the gun. They saw the potential of computing for planning, but the technology wasn't quite there yet for the sort of macro-scale planning necessary. That being said, computer technology by the 1980's was advanced enough to implement a cybernetics-based reform of the planning system. That this did not happen is largely down to revisionist tendencies and some instrinstic failings of the structure of the Soviet government.


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Technology only goes the way the political system and economic model go. Just look at modern products and technologies today, we could have achieved total environmental sustainability and complete automation by this point (just look at Cuba for instance, total sustainability even when their agricultural equipment are far behind the capitalist world), but doing that will also mean capitalists in imperialist countries can’t maximize their profits. So instead we get phones with better spying equipment for selling information to advertisers, beauty products, expensive as shit self driving cars, and sweat shops in China.

Capitalists will never push technology toward serving the masses but just for serving themselves. Also don’t forget all of the technological achievements the Soviet Union made, without the space race I doubt that space exploration would even be a thing since it’s not profitable enough.

If we don’t get a global revolution in the next 20 years or so and if human civilization don’t collapse by global warming then expect a future where everything is automated but everyone will still have to wage slave away to keep the rotting corpse of capitalism going, but this time any resistance will be detected the minute they’re thought up and crushed under the steel boot of drones and robots



I agree like most left communist arguments Trotsky wouldn't have fixed the problem I just agree it is something to take into account especially if we can fix it in the modern day



>>They admitted that even a computer performing 1 million operations per second, which was much faster than any available Soviet computers, would require one month to solve a system a billionth as large.



Alright, so FLOPS is floating-point operations per second, megaFLOP is million of these, and gigaFLOP is a thousand megaFLOPs. According to Wikipedia, the approximate cost per gFLOP as of 2017 is $0.3. So that's what we need if we want to do the calculation mentioned above, and do it a thousand times faster than in a whole month? Either way, that is not interesting, the issue is "a billionth as large". I doubt this give us a proper multiplier to get to the real economy since the complexity probably is not something that grows in a linear fashion with problem size.

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O Glorious Seventeenth of April!


Happy Khmer Rouge day everyone!

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primitive communism is reactionary





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nechayevite barracks communism with agrarian characteristics is revisionist




sounds painful


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DPRK and Democratic Kapuchea were the BFFs tho.

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What is a good Marxist take on these?

Namely, how would one go about demonstrating how a multi-level marketing company is more exploitative than a "conventional" hierarchical workplace in capitalism? The boss gets the consultants (who are the consumers) to buy a bunch of the company's product, which the consultants then sell to others and try to recruit others into the company. It's disastrous, since the consultants often times end up going into debt working for these companies through buying a bunch of unsellable stock, and the recruitment model is inherently unsustainable. Through the lens of the LTV, how would these companies be understood?

Long the same lines, what can be said about pyramid and ponzi schemes more generally?

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File: 4588bbfc7859ebc⋯.png (180.87 KB, 463x269, 463:269, toni.png)

Have you ever tried to do the washing up without any washing up liquid?


Basically buzzwords for the way capitalism usually functions




Both of these are good answers.




I have zero problems with people doing retarded self-destructive shit to themselves in their free time. This is not what’s wrong with capitalism.

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If you truly think about, Marxist-Leninism is the synthesis of multiple bourgeois attempts at creating a honeypot ideology ready and willing to entrap and murder true revolutionary leftists. Hierarchy and the authority resting at the top are ultimately willing to go to any lengths to maintain their position of luxury in a capitalist society. This rhetoric of survival would clearly extend to anyone in a position of authority in any system still involving a state continuing to exist. The abolition of the state is necessary to deconstruct the concept of oppression for all marginalized folk. DialecticaL MATERIALISM be used to arrive to this conclusion if you treat the capitalist state as the thesis and use socialism as the antithesis: the synthesis will be a society in which hierarchy is still existent but those in positions of authority are nicer. This does not solve the issue of authoirity having no accountability. anyways feminism and illegalism are cool lol.

6 posts omitted. Click reply to view.



Tell me EXACTLY why we wouldn't be able to replace the state with trade unions.


>If you truly think about, Marxist-Leninism is the synthesis of multiple bourgeois attempts at creating a honeypot ideology

No it's revolutionary aristocracy that attempts to run a rational economy. The difference between a anarchist and an ML is mostly just how to deal with the state, anarchists want to abolish it and MLs want a party to tame the state.

> to entrap and murder true revolutionary leftists.

yes yes da true true of the most true.

Most of the brutality in past ML system comes from the contradiction of trying to defeat capitalism which is a offence oriented system, with a system that is defence oriented. If you picture the soviet Union turning it's Satellites into Social democracies where they can offload their "bourgeois-elements" in a sort of playground, the centre regions could even have had direct democracy without too much interference. And since social democracies still are beholden to serve large capital owner, the centre regions could have acted as that large capital-owner and controlled the peripheral social democracies, basically the same way the bourgeoisie does today. This would have meant that they could have acted economically offensive via puppet-investors in the capitalist world, instead of being isolated. They could have had the overwhelming macroeconomic efficiency superiority of the central planer running a full employment economy, and basically use the peripheral soc-dem mixed-economy as a cheat-sheet for micro-economic efficiency until they had the computer means for cybersyn. The west would have lacked a unifying enemy and as such it would not have been possible to organized Nato as effectively and as such arms racing would have been diminished greatly. Proxy wars would have been a lot less militaristic and more about developmental bribes. Forcing capitalist to invest into uplifting impoverished regions instead of turning them into ruins. By the 1970s when the Keynesian capitalism runs into it's profitability crisis the central planing system gets a efficiency bonus from computer technology and once the neo-liberals open markets, the central planing system can operate as a multinational corporation of epic scale, that can steam-roll any capitalist corporation, causing the neoliberal revolution to fail in it's initial stages.

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.


File: 7ce1f2ac284727b⋯.pdf (3.36 MB, Lenin - State and Revoluti….pdf)


>MLs want a party to tame the state

Feel free to actually read Marxist-Leninist theory at any time.



Eventually trade unions come into contradiction with the state and its aims. As Lenin theorised the state must originally extract a surplus from the work force to industrialise the economy (although this is not true in an already developed industrial economy) essentially as soon as the unions take over they then become their own enemy which will manifest itself as the union leadership being at odds with the union rank and file.



>DialecticaL MATERIALISM be used to arrive to this conclusion if you treat the capitalist state as the thesis and use socialism as the antithesis: the synthesis will be a society in which hierarchy is still existent but those in positions of authority are nicer.

lmao u almost had me until this

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Seeing this girl’s name and face literally everywhere for the past eight months - and especially now that her first album has been released to massive fanfare and critical acclaim - has really got me thinking about her whole backstory, the subject of “industry plants”, and what it says about the modern culture industry in general. While it’s true pop music (and the majority of the culture industry) has always been a corporate-created façade, what stands out in Billie’s case in particular is: 1. the manufacturing of her rise to fame is much more obvious than it was for pop stars in the past, and 2. a large amount of her fame can be attributed to her misappropriating a subculture known to be DIY, and also her image as a so-called “socially conscious” voice amidst the muck of the face-tatted-coloured-locs era.

Billie grew up in a gentrified neighbourhood of Los Angeles a stonethrow away from Hollywood. Her parents are actors and musicians with a long list of credits stretching back 40 years, her mother also teaching songwriting and screenwriting to industry professionals. Her brother Finneas O’Connell is an actor who has been on hit TV shows and is also a successful musician himself. According to interviews Billie has given, she and Finneas were homeschooled specifically so they could focus on acting, singing, and dancing rather than conventional academics. In other words, she wasn’t just born with a foot in the culture industry, she was raised within its waters. Her time in music began at age 14 when she recorded vocals to a song Finneas wrote and produced for his band (“Ocean Eyes”) which “just happened” to go viral once it was posted to SoundCloud. Shortly after, she was signed to Interscope Records; she had almost no prior musical experience before being signed (e.g. she was never part of an underground/local music scene, was never in a band, never made a bunch of demo tapes), which should come off as pretty sketchy to say the least. Interscope proceeded to flood her music all over platforms like Spotify and Apple Music, get her a plethora of interviews in highly credible publications, and got her going on two world tours despite at the time only having released an EP. But most of all, she has an overwhelming amount of social media clout, especially on Instagram where she currently holds 16 million followers. It could be said she’s known more for her presence on the plPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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If Billie did decide to sing about politics, which political issues should she sing about?

My pick: smashing the gender binary (given her rejection of corporate femininity).



Piss off.



There have been 3-4 posts now that seem like the OP trying to keep his thread alive without using his name.

It's okay to be obsessed with a legal teenage girl, as long as you admit it to yourself and don't start jumping through hoops about it. I used to be obsessed with Clairo for three months. After looking deeper into her and abandoning my mental image of her as a cutely arrogant, artistic girl, I realized that she has no personality and is fat-facedly basic.


Anchoring this thread because OP tries way too hard to keep it on life support.



ok cunt

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As workers at companies from Kickstarter to Gimlet to Vox vote to unionize, and as traditional labor organizers call on game devs and others to organize, Silicon Valley is a lot more friendly to pro-labor policies than ever before.

That's partly because tech companies can be terrible places to work, and party because their leaders keep trying to pad their quarterly numbers by selling some truly evil shit to some truly evil organizations, governments and people.

And as monopoly has set in, tech workers are finding libertarian market-oriented pitches less and less convincing, as they see their potential for launching their own startup or for switching to a disruptive new entrant dwindling.

The whole thing has made Silicon Valley ripe for the new, resurgent socialist movement in America, as technies sign up to join the Demcratic Socialists of America and begin to identify as socialists themselves.

“I think there's a quiet group of people who are willing to speak about it to each other,” Areeb Ahmad, who works at an ad tech company in New York City, told Salon. “But I think there is also a second group of people who maybe are open to those ideas. But I think the word [socialism] still has a lot of stigma.”

Ahmad said he was drawn to democratic socialism partly because he is a first-generation immigrant, and partly because he works in the digital advertising field, which is dominated by two megaliths, Facebook and Google.

“Being that roughly 85 percent of the ad marketplace at this point are those two companies, and it's basically impossible to look at that ecosystem and not think those two companies are monopolies, and to not want to do something about that, and to say, ‘Hey, there are all these people who have concerns about privacy,’” he said.

“Not very many, even Democrats, talk about that,” he said. “And I think the libertarian trend that led to this. I think that thinking was what led to companies being like: 'Hey, Google should be as big as they can be.’”

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Gonna have to convince me that they're worse than landlords.



I mean Silicon Valley in a geographic and cultural sense. If landlords are the worst social class, Silicon Valley landlords (there surely cannot be a more vile combination of words in the English language.) are the worst of landlords. Silicon Valley culture and the californian ideology are poisons carried from California to the ends of the earth via copper and fibre optic wire until they deposit themselves in your bedroom, corroding all it touches.



Labour aristocracy is a meme concert, industrial unionism is the only solution: that means organising all employees regardless of pay scale.



labour aristocracy is a meme when applied to "but british workers have shoes!"

it's not a meme when applied to the bay area.

unionism spreading to the middle class is most desirable when you have a strong base of working class unionism to build upon. a strong push from the upper-middle without a strong grounding at the bottom is a route to misery.

of course, all roads may lead to misery.




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So basically the logical extreme of idpol is fascism or is this tranny just retarded or something?

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File: 3c058ce528fe233⋯.mp4 (890.39 KB, 400x400, 1:1, soy_zombies.mp4)



> Is this tranny just retarded or something?

<Is this fire just hot or something?



>I wouldn't put LGBT rights on the same level as feminism

why don't you make a hierarchy of "identity levels", so we know what identities you support more than others. that would really help the discussion. /s




more evidence that anti-trans posters are the worst posters and closet reactionaries.


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Okay this is the other side of the coin of idpol.



In what world do people care about them? You take the most devoted marxist and even he'll tell you how much of a tumor the outrage crowd is.

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Umair Haque (previously) writes about how the last days of the Soviet Union were filled with "forced apathy" (an inability to care about what was going on because just surviving took everything you had) and "self-referentialism" (an obsession with domestic affairs to the exclusion of everything else going on elsewhere in the world)>

Haque also remembers those days for the "one party rule" and notes that while the US is dominated by a single party (one that cheated its way into control over the presidency, the Senate, the Supreme Court and many state governments), it is technically a two-party system, but any Democrat who offers real progressive policies is marginalized and backstabbed by the Democratic establishment.

Other similarities include "power seeking" or structural corruption (think of the establishment's refusal to enact popular programs like universal health care or network neutrality) and the silencing of dissenting voices and the lack of a real public discourse on the failings of capitalism and the ways that other countries solve their problems.

Friends across the world often ask me: “why don’t Americans do more to fix their crumbling society?” They’re aghast, astonished. I tell them the reality of American life: Americans would, if they could, but they can’t, mostly. Apathy is forced on them by a predatory kind of capitalism that forces them to live something like poor people in a rich country. Breadlines — insulin lines — what’s the difference, really? Americans are forced into being apathetic, weary, drained of energy and ideas and time, by a fatally broken political economy which makes them more and more of them live at the edge of ruin, more and more so every day — but that forced apathy, my friends, is the kind of trap that has led societies throughout history to collapse, whether the USSR or Rome.

What happens if you do try to change the system, though? Well — how exactly are you going to do it? The second way American collapse resembles Soviet collapse is through one party rule. I mean this in a subtle way. It’s true that one party controls most of America’s government — and its society, too — and that party has imploded into the kind of extremism that makes dPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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>Your list for arguments against the Republicans suggests that you need to go outside

peak projection. republican kikelovers can go fuck themselves and leave this forum.



what a retarded take


>implying any of the two parties are not anti-worker trash

top burger hours



Who's to say that Democrats or Republicans aren't two controlled opposition parties that have the exact same beliefs but must put on a mask to court boomers of various sorts?



US politics are a dance of masks.

File: 52e72cb1ea4b99e⋯.jpg (42.53 KB, 720x720, 1:1, IMG_20190416_013840_600.jpg)


As some alternative to the voucher system I can't understand.

Or please send me a video or something that explains it. Everything I read about it is BIG BRAIN


There isn't a dichotomy between a voucher system and calculation in kind? Enterprise produces 20 goods that each took 5 hours to make, people can "buy" them with vouchers worth of 5 hours of labour done, etc.

Can you be more specific?


Also, Cockshott did this lecture and Q&A in FinBol's Discord yesterday, he explains his basic concept very … well … basically and doesn't dive into the maths.




The way that linear algebra works there essentially is no difference between calculation in kind and calculation in labour time. This is because you essentially express every term in terms of every other term in the system. As such when every product can be expressed in terms of labour time, energy, steel, oil, or whatever. It's just that expressing consumer goods in terms of labour-time is a pretty useful for pricing in an economy that still requires labour and some form of rationing.

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How does this image make you feel, /leftypol/?

Is there anything which better represents the existing society?


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What is to be done with regards to mental health problems? I feel like far left politics attract people with a lot of baggage and narcissism who find a way to wreck every space they enter. Far right politics attract turbo-schizos, you can just tell by the kind of people that come here to raid. Everytime I see another schizo-fascist post here I really think these people are beyond saving and should just be thrown into a gulag and hope they find a way to rehabilitate there.

What are your thoughts on


>people who bring their mental illness into socialist politics

>the mental health crisis under late capitalism


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I take that as a complement.



i bet the one black guy there makes sargon and co. think they are cool as fuck



But what we do hate Israel.



Fascists don't hate Israel. They hate that they aren't Israel.


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They can all eat dicks.

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1. Is the aftermarket value of art unnecessary?

2. What is the absolute value of art? Its my own personal property that I created and I want to sell it for 1,000,000 because I decided myself that the price of my labor is 1 million an hour. Fair? You don't have to buy it. Is this not socialist in some way?

3. What about aftermarket value? Someone else BUYS the art from me and sells it for higher. It was now there personal property. They sell it higher because it is one of a kind. This seems somewhat like Capitalist labor of value but I think it still applies. How does this work?

How would you sell art under socialism? Can you be an art dealer under socialism or would the capital gained from your personal property be considered surplus value?

6 posts omitted. Click reply to view.


Who gives a shit. The prognosis is that 25% of working people will lose their jobs to automation in 20 years (look it up). If we don't dump capitalism by then they will all die. Your shitty art really doesn't matter.



>Ever doctor has different techniques for the patient he treats so a socialist voucher system would never work. Different patient every time. No matter the object.

>Every programmer produces different software for the problem he faces so a socialist voucher system would never work. Different product every time. No matter the object.

>Every industrial engineer produces different assembly line designs for the factory's needs so a socialist voucher system would never work. Different product every time. No matter the object.

>Every barber has different techniques for the hair he cuts so a socialist voucher system would never work. Different product every time. No matter the object.

Socialism can't into skilled labor oh shit guess I'm a capitlaist now.


>giving a shit about this bullshit

This is why leftism is dead



Can you have a debate and not sarcasm. Im being serious here this is a question I had thoughts about you dont have to answer anything



A doctor has specific pieces at his disposal to use for the specific task and everything still requires different levels of labor for specific things. Just because I said a voucher system wouldn't work doesn't mean its not socialist. Not every Socialist theory uses a voucher system. Not every socialist is the same as you are and they are still socialist

File: e211834658712f5⋯.png (113.31 KB, 245x283, 245:283, xez.png)


have you ever revealed your commie power level to lumpenproles? how'd it go? I'll start:

>be me, take uni history class for sheer amusement

>teacher is actual libertarian, laughably horrible lectures

>one time he starts railing about unions, talking about how unions are just trying to seize the means of production

>ask him if unions could be considered the first step in democratizing the economy

that was when I realized I revealed too much

>the professor's eyes light up and the ambient temperature in the room starts to rise rapidly

>his free market gaze focuses into a beam of hot white light

>he zaps me with his McDonald's Ocular McLaser Cannon

>ouch that fucking hurt


picture unrelated


Grew-up in a tory area, people instinctively think I am one. Few people directly know my politics outside of school mates and family (especially at uni, fuck talking politics with students). So I tend to just drop stuff like "yeah I like coops, I think we should have more democracy in the economy" and stuff like that they buy it. Very rarely reveil I'm a member of a political party, tho I get "anon you should be running things" a lot from people that don't even know my politics and that.


History is such a right-wing field. I doubt you could ever be hired as a real far-leftist.

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