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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Tags: leftism (CLICK HERE FOR MORE LEFTIST 8CHAN BOARDS), politics, activism, news

File: df0ffcbb102c9bb⋯.png (15.76 KB, 676x847, 676:847, ae6e.png)

 No.1685782

What other ideology smothers any actual revolutionary activity more than this one?

>if you fight back you become just like them :^)

>Just keep protesting and using meditation it will somehow work even though it's failing as I speak :^)

I just can't deal with these smug, closet liberal, holier than thou fucks. I hate how even though all the evidence is on the table their ideology doesn't work, they seem to be completely immune to to it, and just double down on more self-righteousness, more self serving meditation, and generally just circle jerking over themselves.

It truly is an infantile mental disorder.

 No.1685791

sounds like leftcoms


 No.1685792

>>1685782

Can't the argument be made that all people are equally corruptible in positions of power, or that violence as a means of gaining something has been historically used to instill and create authoritarian systems that serve the ones lucky enough to have been the ones inheriting the positions of power?

Isn't it at least somewhat relevant to explore other means of transforming the world in a way that prevents this historical truth from happening in the future?


 No.1685812

LARPing as a 20th century revolutionnary is as bad tbqh famalam smh

Violence is something you should use in last resort. The RAF and Red Brigades did more harm than good, and you don't know what would happen after a bloody revolt anyway


 No.1685815

File: 9f74dd8f6dbe1ed⋯.png (111.57 KB, 600x514, 300:257, 19b5a7b66575435f23c0f6ff5c….png)

>>1685782

> infantile mental disorder

larping children like you should be banned from this board. also there's nothing wrong with pacifism. now go kick a thrash can and see if you start world revolution.


 No.1685824

>>1685812

>>1685815

>pacifists calling anyone else a larper

wew lad

I must have missed that revolution you guys started. umm where is it again?


 No.1685827

>everything is larp

you look like children who just learned a new swearing word

off yourselves


 No.1685835

File: e479a477b9f2947⋯.png (55.32 KB, 480x480, 1:1, 1492626793298.png)

>>1685824

>haha yeah trust me guys, this time our violence won't result in even more violence and oppression


 No.1685836

>>1685812

>>1685815

>Rojava are just LARPing

Wait, so guys that are actually building the most revolutionary socialist project of our time are actually LARPing because they don't buy into the pacifism cult? Good to know.


 No.1685840

Pacificism (an incoherent concept) is just consistent anarchism. Without it you'll need a repressive organization to evict property and eliminate it's defenders.


 No.1685841

>>1685836

Nice strawman

Rojava is a far cry away from a middle class suburbanite in North America posting on 8chan


 No.1685848

All non-pacifists will be send to gulag


 No.1685849

I just don't like hurting other people.


 No.1685851

>>1685782

TBH I think the dual attack pacifist half/violent half worked well for the civil rights movement. It means the pacifist get to look moderate, while the people are still stirred up by the violent deeds, perfect combo IMO shame they killed both Pacifist and Militant leaders


 No.1685856

>>1685782

I actually think there is a lot of merit and practicality to civil disobedience and nonviolence.

I mean look at OTPOR


 No.1685875

>>1685849

>I just don't like hurting other people.

>So let's just support an ideology that doesn't let oppressed people fight back


 No.1685884

>>1685782

Yes, pacifism is reactionary, and any pacifists in left-wing organizations should be treated as de facto saboteurs.

I actually believe that telling people who suffer under violent repression that violent resistance is moral unacceptable is worse than just reactionary, it's downright evil.


 No.1685885

>>1685875

I don't support Pacifist politics for that very reason. In fact, I try not to actively and/or publicly support any politics out of fear of causing pain to others or receiving pain from others.


 No.1685886

File: 450875966a18229⋯.png (127.85 KB, 800x533, 800:533, 450875966a18229a1d6d270e97….png)

>>1685875

muh false dichotomy. using non violent tactics ≠ not fighting back. your thread is bad and you should feel bad.


 No.1685887

>>1685824

I support violence from times to times. Even Gandhi advocated it in certain cases, according to Zizek.

But it should assessed on a case by case basis if we need it or not, and I favor smart non-violent acts or damaging property over brute force. Violence does more harm than good to your cause if it is used at a wrong time (see the RAF and ISIS for examples)


 No.1685888

>>1685875

>fallacy of equivocation

>misrepresentation

>>1685884

it's not a moral disagreement. it's a disagreement over non-moral facts. we both agree we want people to stop being oppressed and exploited, but we disagree over methods of getting there.


 No.1685892

>>1685888

>>1685884

(i.e. scenario 1 - violent revolution in history has only led to more violence and oppression, therefore to minimize harm done to common person and to break the cycle of power creating itself and destroying itself - we should find nonviolent means of revolting)

or

scenario 2: whatever your position is that mitigates the proles being exploited)


 No.1685895

>>1685885

What kind of cuckoldry is this?


 No.1685898

>>1685895

it's called bait and you got yourself hooked son


 No.1685902

>>1685888

>>1685892

It's one thing to say that violence isn't the right strategy at a given time, and another to advocate complete pacifism. I personally don't think violence is a good idea for the left in the west at this point, but I don't see capitalism going down without bloodshed.

But the whole "cycle of violence" stuff just seems like liberal bullshit to me.


 No.1685903

>>1685895

I don't have any reason to hurt people other than myself. What's so hard to understand?


 No.1685905

>>1685903

You're a spineless liberal.


 No.1685906


 No.1685909

>>1685903

>I don't have any reason to hurt people other than myself. What's so hard to understand?

Ok now I'm pretty sure this is bait.


 No.1685910

>>1685886

When people talk about fighting back they mean methods that actually work to stop the oppression in a real way, and not jerking themselves off over a purity fetish.


 No.1685911

>>1685782

I'm okay with actual pacifists. Liberals who use it as an excuse to say "don't punch nazis" deserve the bullet.

>>1685875

This is a very good point though.

Defending the structural violence of society (even implicitly) while whining about the more overt violence of those suffering from it is cancer.

That said I have a soft spot for violence because I've basically lost faith in a better world and violence just feels good. I'm not violent, but it's just nice to see it happen. Would someone punching Tony Blair on his warmongering cunt nose do anything to set the world right? Not really, but jesus christ it'd be great to see. Hedonism via alcohol, over-eating and pornography is small-time, violence is my drug.

>>1685892

when you say "only lead to more" i hope to fuck you don't mean "more than pre-revolution" as though the USSR was as consistently shit as tsarist russia


 No.1685916

>>1685909

It's not. I'm no good, I have no natural strength and I have no will to impose over others. I've never been a violent person, and I have no desire to be a violent person. How is it "bait"?


 No.1685918

File: bf1b5ed96465cf9⋯.png (486.45 KB, 5120x2880, 16:9, bait5k.png)

>>1685906

>>1685916

Cowardice. You'd rather stay a slave rather than fight because people's feefees might be hurt, ignoring the fact that systemic violence is everywhere and by simply speaking you are doing violence. Why are you even here?


 No.1685920

File: 3720441d78d7838⋯.png (352.34 KB, 600x608, 75:76, 3720441d78d783837bb3fec796….png)

>>1685911

>Hedonism via alcohol, over-eating and pornography is small-time, violence is my drug.


 No.1685921

>>1685916

>I have no will to impose over others.

Allow me to suggest "hand over the means of production"


 No.1685926

File: 1900c1f88b3dca6⋯.jpg (39.37 KB, 444x574, 222:287, 1900c1f88b3dca6e1a62981b7a….jpg)

>>1685910

>methods that actually work

like kicking thrashcans, we all know, but thanks.

>jerking themselves off over a purity fetish

yeah jerking yourself off to a gore fetish is way better

srsly, what are you, cointelpro? it's window smashing twats like you who make the left look bad. you divert public attention from the discussion of political matters to your childish actionism.


 No.1685927

>>1685918

>by simply speaking you are doing violence.

I try not to speak or interact with people, but it's only human nature to do so. I'd go insane if I couldn't talk to at least one other person.

I believe in a future without violence, but I can't do anything for it. I'm mentally deficient, physically defective, uncreative, and destined to failure.


 No.1685931

At least they genuinely mean well. Liberals are very rarely honest with anyone, especially themselves.


 No.1685933

>>1685926

>like kicking thrashcans, we all know, but thanks.

>yeah jerking yourself off to a gore fetish is way better

Well if anyone said any of these things you might begin to have a point.


 No.1685936

File: 3855d34507a5020⋯.pdf (2.2 MB, ignorant-schoolmaster.pdf)

>>1685927

Read a book, self pity is just pathetic.


 No.1685941

>>1685926

>you divert public attention from the discussion of political matters to your childish actionism.

the matters one gets distracted from are worthless bourgeois politics anyway.

it's not like antifa and alt-right spergs fighting over a flag is distracting the serious public discussion about revolution, it's a sideshow to president two-scoops and whatever shithead neoliberals are running the democratic party.

it's basically an irrelevancy instead of an inconvenience.

>>1685927

now that's a feeling i can relate to.


 No.1685942

>>1685936

I'm not pitying myself, just stating the truth. I have no means to free myself or others.


 No.1685943

>>1685902

History goes in circles, and so do systems of power. Systems of hierarchy are maintained by violence. They create and destroy themselves.

I don't see how this is liberal bullshit as much as history


 No.1685949

File: e11d6ad745b77cf⋯.pdf (978.8 KB, freire_pedagogy_oppresed1.pdf)

I always thought this was book was good grounds and backing for nonviolent revolution

>"Any situation in which some individuals prevent others from engaging in the process of inquiry is one of violence. The means used are not important; to alienate human beings from their own decision-making is to change them into objects" (85).


 No.1685950

>>1685812

>Violence is something you should use in last resort

but we should accept the state's using it as a matter of course, i suppose


 No.1685952

>>1685949

Oh shit look at that crisp wordart (also thanks comrade)


 No.1685955

File: 5db5aa5eebfb958⋯.png (28.67 KB, 376x376, 1:1, cr.png)

Will you indoctrinate the masses to serve your new regime?

And simply do away with those whose views are too extreme?

Transportation details could be left to British rail

Where Zyklon B succeeded, North Sea Gas will fail

It's just the same old story of man destroying man

We've got to look for other answers to the problems of this land

You're far too much of a man for that, if Mao did it so can you

What's the freedom of us all against the suffering of the few?

That's the kind of self-deception that killed millions of jews

Just the same false logic that all power-mongers use

So don't think you can fool me with your political tricks

Political right, political left, you can keep your politics

Government is government and all government is force

Left or right, right or left, it takes the same old course

Oppression and restriction, regulation, rule and law

The seizure of that power is all your revolution's for

You romanticise your heroes, quote from Marx and Mao

Well their ideas of freedom are just oppression now

Nothing changed for all the death, that their ideas created

It's just the same fascistic games, but the rules aren't clearly stated

Nothing's really different cos all government's the same

They can call it freedom, but slavery is the game

Nothing changed for all the death, that their ideas created

It's just the same fascistic games, but the rules aren't clearly stated

Nothing's really different cos all government's the same

They can call it freedom, but slavery is the game

There's nothing that you offer but a dream of last years hero

The truth of revolution, brother………………. is year zero.


 No.1685958

>>1685950

What is with this meme of people thinking violence is the only way to oppose your oppressors?


 No.1685960

File: c83f54a00cddb09⋯.jpg (79.88 KB, 766x960, 383:480, c83f54a00cddb092dc6043aebf….jpg)

>>1685958

they're teenagers


 No.1685969

>>1685958

what non-violent action are you taking? :^)


 No.1685971

>>1685958

>the state uses violence to oppress people; is extremely successful

>people should reject using this extremely successful thing for some reason


 No.1685972

File: 172ca31bf58e7f4⋯.png (85.88 KB, 283x283, 1:1, notfbi.png)

>>1685969

>asking people to self incriminate themselves


 No.1685977

File: e85c4ec7c909855⋯.jpg (100.89 KB, 704x484, 16:11, 1455154623007.jpg)

>>1685949

Violence is just coercion backed by physical force, social change at all is coercive. Since the bourgs will never willingly give up their MoP, forcing them to by law (inb4 "lol voting into socialism" - and yes I agree with you that'll never happen) is coercion backed by force, otherwise they would willingly hand it over.

Coercion doesn't have to be violent, coercion is forcing change and those factors behind it are a representation of this coercion. Whether it's social stigma for violating norms, taking away economic incentives, loss of freedom (prison), or just threatening to beat someone up if they don't comply as all coercive, not necessarily "violent", but that doesn't make them much different. Pacifists are kidding themselves, they just want non-violent coercion, if they didn't believe in what they do they wouldn't act as if what they're doing is coercing the bourgs into getting what they want.

Pacifism is non-violent coercion.


 No.1685982

>>1685971

There's tons of arguments every which way about this, and I find the most compelling to be those against violence in MOST cases.

When you impose your will upon others and remove them of their agency, you'll continue to do this once having assumed a position of power. What could go wrong?

The argument of "it's okay because they do it too" stopped being a valid one in my household around age 12 when I would utilize this tactic and implicate my brother


 No.1685985

>>1685972

the most incriminating thing you can say is "nothing"

Anyway, A thought just occurred to me: one advantage of violence is that it's relatively quick. Every second lost is another systematic corpse.

There then exists a case to say, for example, "Well, we'll take a revolution that retains structural violence and create the USSR, then once we've slowed the rate of systemic death, we can talk about other means."

Most pressingly this could be applied to the environmental situation. A brutal global dictatorship of some sort starts to sound less abhorrent when the alternative is "steady as you are" while we sail off a climate-cliff to our deaths. (especially if they put a post-keynesian in the finance ministry.)

>>1685982

there is literally nothing wrong with removing agency in stringently defined conditions tbqh.

(in real world situations it bogs down and you wind up stretching the rules to argue everyone you kill really was a kulak, but that's neither here nor there.)


 No.1685987

>>1685982

>just let them keep using violence against you


 No.1685989

>>1685969

>ad hominem


 No.1685992

>>1685987

There it is again.

see

>>1685958


 No.1685996

>>1685989

if you aren't taking any action, you're letting them walk all over you

just because an academic case can be made in the general circumstance, what you are doing remains relevant.

i mean, it's what i'm doing.


 No.1686000

>>1685996

Do you not understand the fallacy or do you need me to explain it to you?

You're attacking the persons character and trying to discredit the idea by virtue of that


 No.1686001

>>1685992

>the state will stop using violence against us if we act nonviolently


 No.1686005

>>1686001

>we will stop using violence once we become the state


 No.1686007

i drew that years ago on /anarcho/

ask me anything


 No.1686011

>>1686005

why should we stop? who made this claim?


 No.1686012

>>1686000

the fallacy only applies if i was implying that the theoretical argument was wrong on that basis.

i posed an essentially tangential question.


 No.1686019

File: a43e5732303ee23⋯.gif (1.1 MB, 472x348, 118:87, a43e5732303ee23a91116e0657….gif)

>>1686011

I know, right? What could go wrong if we simply get the power to label anything as adversarial to our morally righteous system of governance and can stomp out their dissent with force?


 No.1686028

>>1686019

the revolution will not end after one day. it will require constant defence from reaction, that means violence


 No.1686030

>>1686019

not all dissenters are created equal.


 No.1686032

>>1686028

think you're missing the point, m8


 No.1686036

>>1686030

Not all "dissenters" are even dissenters, in fact.


 No.1686037

>>1686032

what is your point then?


 No.1686042

>>1686037

That people are corruptible and all that will be accomplished is the ouroboros effect of power systems


 No.1686043

>>1685960

The ruling class is full of teenagers?


 No.1686051

File: c25d9bd08854343⋯.png (9.25 KB, 310x163, 310:163, IngSokFlagRed&Black.png)

Totalitarianism


 No.1686978

>>1686043

nah this board.

live action role playing.


 No.1687033

>>1686978

Way to miss the point. The ruling class uses violence as part of its daily operation, but no one calls them "teenagers".


 No.1687035


 No.1687056

>>1687035

posting a star wars video to help posit your view isn't exactly doing your camp any good in dismissing this LARPing accusation


 No.1687075

>>1685782

Pacifism is inherently anti-socialist because pacifists wants to disarm the proletariat and only allow the Bourg and classcucks (police) to have weapons

Not only that but Pacifism also epitomizes blind idealism and Idpol and it simply does not work


 No.1687101

>people call pacifists "liberals"

>forget that liberals are the ones cheering on US aggression around the world

>they do this because they stick firmly to the belief that US is DA BEST COUNTRY

Violence in self defense is fine, but anyone who uses violence as an active tactic is fucking scary because once you justify violence against one enemy, you can justify it against any enemy. Doubly so in "Anarchist" orgs where they don't stick to any rules.


 No.1687108

File: 1f51b6fce4efe6f⋯.jpg (218.76 KB, 1100x284, 275:71, endbrocialism.jpg)

>>1687075

>because pacifists wants to disarm the proletariat and only allow the Bourg and classcucks (police) to have weapons

ludicrous strawman. You could be a pacifist and still have arms and martial arts training for self defense.

It's the people who believe murder is justified for an ideology that are deranged.


 No.1687124

>>1687108

>It's the people who believe murder is justified for an ideology that are deranged.

Thank you, mate. For being reasonable


 No.1687126

>>1687108

>this image

Are these people just edgy teenagers or do are they just schizophrenic?


 No.1687257

>>1687033

way to miss the point. the ruling class are not a bunch of larpers. you and your smashie buddies are.


 No.1687262

>>1685824

right next to the one you started.


 No.1687264


 No.1687266

File: 43d86836d9cfd6e⋯.gif (872.54 KB, 380x214, 190:107, pacinosmoke.gif)


 No.1687282

>>1687108

>>1687124

>>1685812

>>1685815

>>1686019

it's gratifying to occasionally read posts on this board that aren't painfully shortsighted.


 No.1687423

>>1687056

So you didn't even watch the video?


 No.1687428

>>1687262

Wait, there's one next to Rojava or Spain?


 No.1687438

I have conflicting opinions on pacifism, and tbh, I think all anarchists should. On one hand, it seems contradictory and dangerous to try to create a non-violent society through violence and it'd be nice if there was a way for there to be a peaceful revolution, but on the other hand, it doesn't appear that non-violence can meaningfully change anything, and revolution is ultimately an act of self-defense and liberation, not of aggression and oppression.

I don't blame Pacifists who refuse violence, and I think it takes a lot of courage to be one if their beliefs were tested, but I think they're idealistic and won't ever be capable of changing anything.


 No.1687473

File: d2564ff7a78f1e9⋯.png (29.02 KB, 657x527, 657:527, d2564ff7a78f1e961173d3bbe4….png)

>>1687428

spain is a terrible example and rojava will be crushed by the turks as soon as they are no longer useful to the west and u.s. military and financial support ceases.

but enjoy your puberty as long as it lasts, and all the romantic dreams that come with it.


 No.1687574

>>1687108

>It's the people who believe murder is justified for an ideology that are deranged.

peak liberalism tbqh.

i reiterate my point about the expediency of violence. it's a dangerous tool, but it's still a tool and a tool that can lead to very serious gains in the long/mid term, even if it doesn't lead to a perfectly peaceful utopia. more importantly, the serious threat of violence can bolster position of vaguely similar groups. ("vote labour or the trade unions will make 1971 look like 1917" )

there's a distinct irony somewhere that i'm probably just as inclined to violence as any dedicated tankie with a long-term aim of communist, but would be contented to do it just to restore postwar semi social democracy. "the ends justify the means" with extreme means for very modest ends.

but whatever lol we're neither going to use violence or non violence and the planet is going to burn us up.


 No.1688689

>>1687473

> So don't do anything

Thanks for playing.




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