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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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/leftyweebpol/ - Anime girls against capitalism!
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File: b30941d63caa2d6⋯.jpg (166.41 KB, 703x1000, 703:1000, ar.jpg)

 No.2067297

Why was Soviet cinema so much better than Hollywood from the same time period?

 No.2067302


 No.2072491

>>2067297

It wasn't.

Also all the great New Waves of world cinema came from capitalist countries, except the Czechoslovak one.


 No.2072734

George Lucas of all people triggered a lot of fags last year talking about artistic freedom in the USSR: http://archive.is/dBP4H


 No.2072752

>>2067297

more creative freedom


 No.2072765

For most of the USSR, it really wasn't. I think there were some movies from the early period that were ahead of their time, but not much after that, that I can think of.


 No.2072770

>>2072491

>>2072765

these guys are right, the arts in general where pleb tier in the USSR most of the time


 No.2072780

>>2072770

>>2072765

>>2072491

>Western cinema was just so cutting-edge… not like those shitty Soviet films that promoted boring stuff like class consciousness, solidarity, and proletarian power!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html

also, being pleb-tier is good.


 No.2072813

>>2067297

Because it wasn't made for the market and you had more artistic freedom (if you didn't go rampant on the political system).

>>2072491

>It wasn't.

lol

>cold war winner countries won the cold war, guise, and with it the narrative, guise

ok

>>2072734

Hah!

>>2072765

Because you are completely ignorant on the topic.


 No.2072814

Does anyone now were to watch?? "Come and see"?In english,Spanish or French


 No.2072816

File: 8fd8703dd6b19a8⋯.jpg (28.33 KB, 600x602, 300:301, HAS ANYONE BEEN.jpg)

>>2072814

>Does anyone now were to watch??

wat. Do you mean have we seen it? I have, and I enjoyed it, but I think a few of the scenes were overdone, like lighting the barn on fire then shooting into it.


 No.2072819


 No.2072821

All the best American directors were leftists who got MCCARTHYD.

Apart from Hitchcock and a couple of others they were all shit.


 No.2072824

>>2067297

Stop LARPing. With all the great New Waves during those years it's pretty clear that it wasn't a fenomenon exclusive to the USSR.


 No.2072826

>>2072821

>Apart from Hitchcock and a couple of others they were all shit.

This is the contrarianism cancer talking.

>All the best American directors were leftists who got MCCARTHYD.

Idiot. This is in no way true


 No.2072832

File: 57d2b30bb4ad2a0⋯.mp4 (6.54 MB, 640x274, 320:137, Chuck Norris vs Communism ….mp4)

>>2067297

We had an entire economy of smugglers of western cinema.Great times :D .


 No.2072839

>>2072832

Can't tell if parody or actual bourgie propaganda.


 No.2072840

>>2072821

>All the best American directors were leftists who got MCCARTHYD.

It's fun to believe that, but it's definitely not true.


 No.2072847

>>2072780

>not like those shitty Soviet films that promoted boring stuff like class consciousness, solidarity, and proletarian power!

The criteria for good art is not how well it represents someone's class interests.


 No.2072850

>>2072839

Ask the people who did it. Unlike you western neets for which communism is a utopian future dreamland, it's a living memory here, from the all-too near past.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irina_Margareta_Nistor


 No.2072855

>>2072850

>>2072839

Well it's fucking Ceaușescu romania.

That fucker is the worst. Seriously not even the tankiest cat on here could defend him


 No.2072863

>>2072850

The Soviet socialism wasn't communism you dumb fuck


 No.2072867

>>2072855

>Ceaușescu

I think I've seen screenshots of people on r/fullcommunism unironically defending him.

Reddit is such fucking cancer.


 No.2072871

File: 3e65b54113a89ee⋯.jpg (63.45 KB, 646x404, 323:202, 646x404[1].jpg)

>>2072863

>le not real gommunism XDDDDDD

I don't know if they succeed in your narrow definition, but they sure as hell were trying.


 No.2072878

>>2072871

I don't think anyone would consider them successes if they're all capitalist countries now.


 No.2072883

>>2072850

>>2072855

Sorry for my ignorance, I guess romania was in vastly different situation than for example Stalingrad where theater, operas and soviet movies were common prole entertainments and people didn't really have a need or even interest for western movies. If things in romania were fucked up and no entertainment was provided, then its no wonder if black market for western media was developed.


 No.2072886

/leftypol/ has pretty horrific artistic sensibilities and thinks a photo realistic painting of some starving peasant picking spuds is far better than a Pollock or Warhol. In all the socialist experiments we've seen so far there's been a very dogmatic and limited approach to art, often it's relegated to propaganda towing the 'party line'. I mean Soviet propaganda posters are cool for a bit, but how many derivatives of a muscular factory working striking an iron representing [capitalist evil] can you stomach without questioning the room for creativity?


 No.2072888

>>2072884

You should read a book so you knew what communism even is.


 No.2072894

>>2072883

no problem.

>>2072888

>Parents lived it

>Grandparents lived it.

>Great-grand-parents remembered the times before it

<read a book XDDD


 No.2072896

File: ee8e37de5c030f8⋯.gif (9.84 MB, 530x299, 530:299, giphy.gif)

>>2072886

Who are these /leftypol/ posters that unironically think Stalin propaganda paintings are the high-point of art?


 No.2072898

>>2072894

It couldn't have been worse than living in America.


 No.2072900

>>2072896

Any thread about socialist realism here is largely positive, and you have people like >>2072780 comparing abstraction to CIA.


 No.2072902

>>2072894

Well America wasn't so great for a lot of people either. Sorry if that's news to you.


 No.2072903

>>2072894

You still dont get it. Just because you had shit leader in romania doesnt mean communism sucks. There are democratically voted shitty leaders that fuck shit up, it doesnt mean that voting should be abolished.


 No.2072905

>>2072900

Well, you might have a point, but most of this thread seems to be in opposition to that one guy.


 No.2072909

>>2072780

Criteria for good cinema doesn't usually revolve around if it promotes your interests.


 No.2072912

File: 57ea364474696ff⋯.png (191.44 KB, 701x401, 701:401, actually existing communis….png)

>>2072894

If Romania is representative of actual communism, is the DPRK representative of an actual democratic republic?


 No.2072916

>>2072898

>>2072902

Tell that to all the people who risked their lives to escape.

https://translate.google.ro/translate?hl=ro&sl=ro&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ziare.com%2Fdiaspora%2Fromani-strainatate%2Fcomunismul-si-experienta-emigratiei-prin-ochii-unei-romance-stabilite-in-sua-1229866

>>2072903

Just for the fuck of it, what's your ideea of non-shit communism? The time and place were the good communism occurred. What are they?


 No.2072918

File: b12a9cff643e1e8⋯.jpg (72.65 KB, 668x668, 1:1, soviet modern.jpg)

>>2072886

What is it that you want? Modern art? Soviets had it. Theatre? Soviets had it. Operas? Soviets had it.

You had books of all kinds of genres from scifi to romance, you had all the genres of music too(later than west but that's the trend with eastern europe even this day)

You are saying soviets only did one kind of art, seems like you havent even tried to look for anything else.


 No.2072919

File: 3818b8d6bedb09c⋯.jpg (155.14 KB, 1200x880, 15:11, DBq848FXUAA27pc.jpg)

>>2072912

NO BECAUSE ITS COMMUNISM TOO! JUST LIKE OBAMA


 No.2072925

>>2072912

I'm sure Lenin totally agrees with the last part.


 No.2072938

>>2072916

>The time and place were the good communism occurred. What are they?

The problem is that there really hasn't been a non-shit state so far, not communist nor capitalist. It's a constant progress though and to put things in context think of it this way: Without Lenin you could still be a peasant for a tsar, and if you thought communism sucked, you should read some history about tsarist romania. Communism was very non-shit in comparison.


 No.2072939

>>2072916

I'm not a Marxist. I'm not super interested in defending USSR and I don't agree with the other guy that it was always worse. Just that the U.S. also had serious problems both domestically (blacks, the poor, union workers) and via its foreign policy - supporting dictators over democratically elected presidents in Chile, Haiti and in other places.


 No.2072952

File: 4fe81ebd6e341be⋯.jpg (227.31 KB, 1200x1478, 600:739, Sergei_Prokofiev_circa_191….jpg)

>>2072886

>In all the socialist experiments we've seen so far there's been a very dogmatic and limited approach to art

read a book


 No.2072954

File: 1c08e8deaaf59fa⋯.jpg (57.54 KB, 500x345, 100:69, alredy.jpg)

>>2067297

>genuinely interesting thread derailed by some dumbass parroting /pol/ memes

Like clockwork


 No.2072959

>>2072916

>The time and place were the good communism occurred. What are they?

Arguably in portions of Spain during the civil war, often but not always by the anarchists.

>Yet so far as one could judge the people were contented and hopeful. There was no unemployment, and the price of living was still extremely low; you saw very few conspicuously destitute people, and no beggars except the gypsies. Above all, there was a belief in the revolution and the future, a feeling of having suddenly emerged into an era of equality and freedom. Human beings were trying to behave as human beings and not as cogs in the capitalist machine. In the barbers' shops were Anarchist notices (the barbers were mostly Anarchists) solemnly explaining that barbers were no longer slaves. In the streets were coloured posters appealing to prostitutes to stop being prostitutes.

t. Orwell, Homage to Catalonia (read it for its own sake, it's a good book)

>In those libertarian communities where money was suppressed, wages were paid in coupons, the scale being determined by the size of the family. Locally produced goods, if abundant, such as bread, wine, and olive oil, were distributed freely, while other articles could be obtained by means of coupons at the communal depot. Surplus goods were exchanged with other anarchist towns and villages, money [the legal national currency] being used only for transactions with those communities that had not yet adopted the new system.

t. Bolloten, The Grand Camouflage

>Some collectives did in fact abolish money. They had no system of exchange, not even coupons. For example, a resident of Magdalena de Pulpis, when asked, “How do you organize without money? Do you use barter, a coupon book, or anything else?,” replied, “Nothing. Everyone works and everyone has the right to what he needs free of charge. He simply goes to the store where provisions and all other necessities are supplied. Everything is distributed free with only a notation of what he took.”

t. Dolgoff, The Anarchist Collectives


 No.2072960


 No.2073023

>all these fags buying american propaganda at face value ITT

>that one romanian gypsy coming from a revisionist hellhole thinking his points are valid just because of his ancestors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEtGAzDl2eU

I've been on a binge of soviet movies for the past 2-3 months, I've also been watching some Yugo and Czechslovak shit in between. I can tell you it is a nice rest from the cliches of western cinematography. I've been legit bored of movies for a long while and then I've started watching these socialist works and I became interested again.

Here are some movies I can recommend:

Solaris

Elusive Avengers

White Sun of the Desert

Dead Man's Letters

Idi Smotri

Battle of Sutyeska

Ivan Grozny

Aleksandar Nevski

Chapayev

Lemonade Joe

some good shows I'd recommend:

Otpisani (yugo show)

As the Steel was Tempered

If the standard for socialist states is set by fags with ancestors that lived there then gee I guess that makes me just as eligible to judge lmao.

t.Yugo


 No.2073033

>>2072916

>The time and place were the good communism occurred. What are they?

Soviet Union, 1917 onwards, Eastern Europe, 1945 onwards. China, 1949 onwards.

https://youtu.be/6Tmi7JN3LkA

GGnoRE


 No.2073120

>>2073023

Oh wow a list of movies. Which one of them is better than 2001: A Space Odyssey?


 No.2073127

What about today states? The PRC's cinema will never match the cinema of Hong Kong and Taiwan. The same applies to the South and North Koreas.


 No.2073205

>>2073120

Solaris


 No.2073210

>>2073120

nice goalpost moving

>>2073127

China nowadays is turbocapitalist, and some folks in this board will argue that it never even was socialist


 No.2073238

>>2073023

Check out Kin Dza Dza, Jancsó, Makk, Švankmajer, comrade.


 No.2073239

>>2073120

Solaris, easily. Stalker, by miles.


 No.2073241

File: 8ed6b6c41288514⋯.png (23.18 KB, 681x625, 681:625, this is your brain on comm….png)

>>2072938

>tsarist romania

Firstly, that's Russia. Secondly ,learn some history faggot. Our peasant class still hasn't recovered, and odds are they never will after the fuckery communism did to them. They paid with their blood. You bourgheze neet larpers seem so interested in the "plight of the working class". When communism came to us we practically didn't have a working class . Those are western problems . We had a peasant class. And before you ask, serfdom was abolished in 1786. The land owned by the peasants was worked by the peasants. They had no employees. They were the employees . And the bosses. And the owners of the means of production, the land . And the produces. And they fed the country out of surplus. Why did the communists take that away from us? Why? Because muh state had to be in control of everything, and the land had to be collectivized.

Now let me tell you a secret about Romania: the

actual members of the communism party never left. They shot the big-cheese back in 89 and they-re devouring the country ever since. Now they call it "social democracy" , and occasionally rob us by means of a multinational instead of directly trough corruption, taxing and goverment regulations. The only good communist is a dead communist. When they shot their leader in 89, we ought to have shot the rest. God fucking damn it.

>>2073033

>Eastern Europe, 1945 onwards

I suppose the millions of peasants that didn't like having their land collectivized and being crammed into commie-blocks to work in factories were also experiencing *bad faith* or *false consciousness* or some other made-up word by an armchair intelectual who never had to get his hands in the dirt a day in his life.


 No.2073248

File: 8c68fe1baf84b1d⋯.jpg (162.23 KB, 640x360, 16:9, 3_535.jpg)

>>2073127

China is about as communist nowadays as today's russia. Other communist countries havent really seen the importance in cinematic entertainment, which is a shame. Russians were always cultural people, even in the times of tsar, so it probably came more naturally for them to make awesome movie industry. Other socialist countries concentrate on more traditional ways of entertainment and culture, like no one can claim that North Korean marching bands arent pretty spectacular.


 No.2073254

File: 7de9d6954f17f90⋯.jpg (22.05 KB, 294x426, 49:71, at504.jpg)

>>2073241

>peasants forced into commie-blocks

LEL, poor peasants! Owning centrally heated apartments, having electricity, radios, television sets, seeing toilets and bath tubs for the first time, those evil communists! THOSE BASTARDS!

Post ww2 Eastern-Europe was still a hellhole. My grandparents' generation used pics related before those devilish commies crammed them into proper houses and gave them a proper pooper.


 No.2073260

>>2073241

>millions of peasants that didn't like having their land collectivized

Only rich peasants complained, you ignorant doofus. The majority of peasantry was poor as dirt and got to own and plan (collectively) for the first time. Go cry me a river.


 No.2073278

>>2073210

Im not moving the goalpost you fucking idiot. You can list a million movies made in the USSR. It doesn't mean that they're actually better than movies from America. No one bothers to post a list of Hollywood movies vs. USSR movies, because there is no comparison.


 No.2073284

>>2073239

Solaris, is a fine movie, but it really didn't push cinema forward the same way Kubrick did.


 No.2073290

>>2073241

>serfdom was abolished in 1786

In name only. Most of the land in Ukraine, Russia, Romania, Hungary was still owned by rich peasants, the aristocracy, and the church.

>They had no employees. They were the employees .

Wut.

>And the bosses.

Lolwut. Again, serfdom was abolished in name only. The same property relations remained.

>Why did the communists take that away from us?

>us

Collectivization hurts the owners, and the owners weren't the poor (majority of) peasants.


 No.2073296

File: 8d58500d89c6282⋯.png (50.2 KB, 246x558, 41:93, Bela kun.png)

>>2073254

>>2073260

>>2073290

Ah, a hungaryan friend. Let me use this occasion to apologize for the murder of Kun Bella and the fall of the Hungarian-Soviet republic. I'm truly sorry. I wish we hadn't done it.

You deserve all the communists you're able to get you hands on. Heck, I'd even give you some of ours is I could. Isn't your country trying to become nazi right now?


 No.2073299

File: ad315eb180664df⋯.jpg (12.98 KB, 236x332, 59:83, tarkovsky.jpg)

>>2073284

>revolution in an art form is about the technology being further developed


 No.2073300

>>2073241

>Firstly, that's Russia. Secondly ,learn some history faggot.

Fine, it was a king. All the same, without russian revolution you wouldnt have had yours.

>Our peasant class still hasn't recovered, and odds are they never will after the fuckery communism did to them.

There you go blaming communism again, what do I do with you? Its like kidnap victim gets their rescuer and all they have to say to them is "fuck you, I'm pretty fucked up for being kidnapped so long. fuck you for trying to rehabilitate me, this sucks ass!" Capitalists would have never come to your aid, they come quite well along with monarchs and right-wing tyrants, in case you havent noticed.

>You bourgheze neet larpers

Says dude who talks like he was there in the communist times, when infact its just your mom and pops and they were probably petitebourg since they have taught you to hate communism so hard

> The land owned by the peasants was worked by the peasants. They had no employees. They were the employees . And the bosses. And the owners of the means of production, the land.

Thats cool, was every romanian a peasant, there were no other jobs where workers were exploited?

>Why did the communists take that away from us? Why? Because muh state had to be in control of everything, and the land had to be collectivized.

>collectivized

What was the problem with peasants joining forces so they can farm more efficiently and afford the machinery? I admit that Im not aware if the policies were drastically different in romania, but thats all that collectivization meant in the current russian area. State would only interfere with the collectives in times of crisis, so the surplus food could be taken to famine areas etc.

>Now they call it "social democracy"

You must be new here, nobody on /leftypol/ likes succdems. Sounds like you guys were ruled by bunch of revisionists, I'm sorry to hear that but it was the reason for soviet union's collapse in the first place. Stalin tried to purge the corruption but after his death things really went downhill all over USSR

>asfhsgdö communists aaargh me hate!

You seem to have bent up neverending hate in completely wrong direction. Have fun with that while the multinational corporations keep fucking your ass, I guess.


 No.2073301

>>2073296

Reply to the arguments or shut up, you brainwashed moron.


 No.2073306

>>2073300

>Have fun with that while the multinational corporations keep fucking your ass, I guess.

Here's a recent story about Romania and capital.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Baia_Mare_cyanide_spill

Australian company basically poisoned the whole river area. The fucking Romanian government was so complicit they tried to push the narrative that tons of fish died because they "caught a cold."


 No.2073318

>>2073306

Damn, but if every romanian is like the douche in this thread, then they probably deserve it. The fish however have done nothing wrong, so sad story anyhow.


 No.2073324

>>2073318

>they probably deserve it

>they

The river runs through several countries, you know. I watched tons of dead fish floating through my city. Thousands of fishermen lost their jobs due to these classcucks.


 No.2073335

>>2073241

>Why did the communists take that away from us?

First, because private ownership of the land is theft, and second, because of processes of accumulation you dumb faggot.

Sage because you're just fishing for (you)'s like every other asshurt polcuck that stumbles through here.


 No.2073343

>>2073241

>

I suppose the millions of peasants that didn't like having their land collectivized and being crammed into commie-blocks to work in factories were also experiencing *bad faith* or *false consciousness* or some other made-up word by an armchair intelectual who never had to get his hands in the dirt a day in his life.

Did Russia take all of your country's arguments too?


 No.2073349

>>2073324

Then thats just unforgivable. Revolution when?


 No.2073360

>>2072734

Ah yes, George "Phantom Penis" Lucas, the lord of creativity. His bullshit hippie movies from the 70's still make me laugh to this day.


 No.2073484

>>2073360

THX 1138 > all of his later space operas combined


 No.2073498

Funny to see people mentioning Tarkovsky as one of the glories of Soviet cinema since he had various issues with the authorities, and even moved to Western Europe in his final years. Soviet officials probably thought of him as a petty-bourgie religious reactionary.


 No.2073521

>>2073484

That's not really an achievement tbqh.


 No.2073527

File: 5b53052dd37889c⋯.gif (6.56 KB, 292x373, 292:373, 267-09.gif)

What is it with all these little shits thinking they can speak for everyone when it comes to communism in eastern Europe /leftypol/?


 No.2073544

>>2073498

All the more proof that artists had freedoms and people were allowed to criticize the authority.


 No.2073553

>>2073544

>being censored is freedom


 No.2073598

>>2073498

>it seems to me that in the last two [movies], at that precise moment where he had all the freedom to whatever he wanted, he had nothing to say.

>Of course Tarkovsky enjoyed an incredible amount of freedom and muh privilege in the Soviet Union; he’s not a martyred Solzhenitzyn type at all.

http://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/sight-sound-magazine/interviews/stalking-stalker-geoff-dyer-tarkovsky

>Everything is conditioned by necessity of one kind or another; and if it were actually possible to find a person in conditions of total freedom, he would be like some deep water fish that had been dragged up to the surface. It's curious to reflect that Rublyov worked within the strictures of the canon! And the longer I live in the West the more curious and equivocal freedom seems to me. Freedom to take drugs? To kill? To commit suicide?

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Andrei_Tarkovsky


 No.2073806

>He's in this peculiar position of being for export only. It must be terrible for him because Russians love their country and their people and so exile in any sense — perhaps especially exile of your work — must be excruciatingly painful. So the man has a most excellental and in a way torturesome existence, except that one thing he does have on his side, that he can spend unbelieveable fortunes such as we haven't seen in this country since Cecil B. DeMille. In terms of budget, Apocalypse Now would look like a B movie in comparison. As long as the Russians agree to make it, he can have as big a crowd as he wants in his film and he can string them out in beautiful patterns across the mountains or he can rebuild villages and towns.

>But the films essentially aren't shown there. They're for export, to give the idea to film buffs in the west — because no one else would care — that there's freedom of expression in Russia. It's worth it to them apparently to have this illusion even though everyone who looks beyond the surface of the silver screen can find out very easily that these films are not for Russia.

https://people.ucalgary.ca/~tstronds/nostalghia.com/TheTopics/Brakhage_and_Tarkovsky.html


 No.2073862

>>2073598

>Freedom to take drugs? […] To commit suicide?

Why not? What a moron.


 No.2074056

>>2073862

I don't agree with him either, but the quote shows that after starting to work in the West he began to question and relativize the notion of freedom. Spin it this way, and it starts to make much more sense: in the USSR you were not "free" to be homeless, or unemployed, to have no basic social security, a home. Suicide and drug abuse (and not simply use) are mostly symptoms of these.


 No.2074150

File: 901a9659999515b⋯.webm (4.35 MB, 480x360, 4:3, MittenDog.webm)

File: 57a9a2674fcb9dc⋯.jpg (42.27 KB, 509x372, 509:372, 005.jpg)

>>2072765

What are you talking about the USSR had a solid animation and stop motion industry to the point you can get /co/ to watch and talk about USSR animation in a thread without it getting to bad, hell some time bad they had a massive thread talking about Polish cartoon Reksio.

Film and television in the Comecon had the advantage that artists were more free to experiment and what interference that existed didn't get in the way as often as capitalist interference. Soviet artists had to avoid political taboos yet didn't have to dumb down their work to the lowest common denominator, they didn't have to deal with focus group testing as once they got past the goverment censor they were golden as they had no advertisers to deal with and were not working on the western block buster model where each film had to have a massive opening just to break even.


 No.2074159

>>2074150

holy shit that animation is smooth


 No.2074181


 No.2074314

File: 01ec3e790523b62⋯.gif (993.68 KB, 500x500, 1:1, 01ec3e790523b6269bbac66394….gif)

>>2073284

> Solaris, is a fine movie, but it really didn't push cinema forward the same way Kubrick did.


 No.2074496

>>2073806

>But the films essentially aren't shown there. They're for export

I could've sworn I had a russian friend tell me that the mirror was pretty popular in russia tho


 No.2081298

File: e74407f059aa221⋯.jpg (1.08 KB, 100x100, 1:1, 1377391271739.jpg)

>>2072886

>a Pollock or Warhol.

Just bumping to say your bait wouldn't pass the lax quality standards of a Great Leap Forward backyard steel furnace.


 No.2081536

>>2072918

Your pic was shunned and essentially erased from history by Stalin




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