[ / / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / 55chan / porno ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

A collective of people engaged in pretty much what the name suggests
Winner of the 68rd Attention-Hungry Games
/d/ - Home of Headswap and Detachable Girl Threads

January 2019 - 8chan Transparency Report
Name
Email
Subject
Comment *
File
Password (Randomized for file and post deletion; you may also set your own.)
* = required field[▶ Show post options & limits]
Confused? See the FAQ.
Flag
Options
dicesidesmodifier

Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf
Max filesize is 16 MB.
Max image dimensions are 15000 x 15000.
You may upload 5 per post.


Tags: leftism (CLICK HERE FOR MORE LEFTIST 8CHAN BOARDS), politics, activism, news

File: 480dbb0f6d174fd⋯.png (541.09 KB, 415x562, 415:562, 87.png)

 No.2264095

OC Thread 3.0

I suppose we should establish a new thread dedicated to /leftypol/ original content.

Feel free to post original content you've made, or OC someone else recently made which you would like to share.

Or, collaborate on improving content within this thread.

 No.2713601

File: 8531f2b862e9e5d⋯.png (15.38 KB, 1200x800, 3:2, ftfy.png)

>>2713293

>>2713473

Here.


 No.2713634

>>2713601

thanks bud


 No.2713807

File: 961acdee6205903⋯.png (448.06 KB, 1287x888, 429:296, nazbol pepe 3.png)

How's this


 No.2713813

>>2713807

put a Democrat Cops of America logo on r/ChapoTrapHouse instead of a Hammer and Sickle and it's perfect


 No.2713821

>>2713813

He only has paint and I'm too lazy to do it.


 No.2716793

>>2704490

Weirdly funny. But what the hell is context?


 No.2716874

>>2716793

Bernie is outraged at Trump's anti cumming policies.


 No.2716983

>>2716793

Bernie did an AMA on reddit and someone asked him what his favourite book was, to which he answered by shilling his own book he recently published.


 No.2717210

File: 5b6d65512856d8a⋯.png (83.29 KB, 896x505, 896:505, CHADnazbolvsvirginredlib.png)

>>2713807

>>2713813

>>2713821

not that anon but here's a halfassed attempt


 No.2717339

Are there any right wingers that bring forth any halfway decent critiques of Marxism? Because I'm so sick of it all being the most basic misunderstandings. Alasdair McIntyre maybe?


 No.2717346

>>2717341

no


 No.2717358

File: 3c5f5396e498b36⋯.png (10.16 KB, 900x600, 3:2, flag1.png)

File: b5b6b28d2d1f8d0⋯.png (7.38 KB, 900x600, 3:2, flag2.png)

File: 5a896a7e6b85fdf⋯.png (12.44 KB, 900x600, 3:2, flag3.png)

varients on an ecosocialist idea I had


 No.2717361

File: fbedbe41bfa6aa7⋯.png (10.15 KB, 900x600, 3:2, flag1.png)

File: d932fbe2f28cce6⋯.png (7.15 KB, 900x600, 3:2, flag2.png)

File: b83a45cdd65acac⋯.png (13.05 KB, 900x600, 3:2, flag3.png)

>>2717360

nasa logo and brazilian flag tbqh


 No.2717366

>>2717358

These flags look like North Pole Party flags for elves rebelling against santa.


 No.2717368

>>2717366

FUCK CHRISTMAS

MADE BY ELFBOL GANG


 No.2717374

File: 51e81097310b5e0⋯.png (4.03 KB, 512x256, 2:1, 01 copy copy.PNG)

>>2717366

beat me to it, that looks like christmas shit

>>2713473

>>2717358

I got this once (twice actually) on politiscales and I really like it

could be a good base


 No.2717377

>>2717374

A hammer and sickle, fist, BPP logo, or gear would go great in that left of that flag


 No.2718285

File: eff361be42a280a⋯.jpg (357.76 KB, 902x730, 451:365, Stfu kulak.jpg)

File: 2432d10c08c2b4a⋯.jpg (623.96 KB, 1968x1897, 1968:1897, stfu revisionist.jpg)

File: e5e35e2302206d0⋯.jpg (120.86 KB, 480x360, 4:3, stfu gusano.jpg)

File: 448a07e03f78b61⋯.jpg (183.78 KB, 429x600, 143:200, Stfu tsarist.jpg)

File: c32b324059e1e92⋯.jpg (90.32 KB, 326x406, 163:203, stfu wehraboo.jpg)

SHUT THE FUCK UP


 No.2718347

>>2718285

upload this to the booru m8, dis is good


 No.2718675

File: 32e65b2cde344fa⋯.jpg (822.47 KB, 1440x1614, 240:269, animeego.jpg)

Took these screenshots from Hunter x Hunter. Anyone good enough at Photoshop to make a Stirner edit?


 No.2722960

File: 9f65b677484e9a7⋯.png (365.15 KB, 621x846, 69:94, alunya lingerie.png)

>>2529995

>>2529995

>Not mine, but anyone got anymore commie catgirl pics?

https://8ch.net/leftyweebpol/res/28.html

It's alunya


 No.2722965

File: 3a22482be08f1c8⋯.png (50.23 KB, 650x400, 13:8, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2718675

>Hunter x Hunter

i remain convinced that Leorio's character design was 100% designed off of Stirner. Even his tie is the right colour ffs


 No.2722978

File: 91e9423907cfb59⋯.gif (1.79 MB, 500x281, 500:281, mocking anime girls.gif)

>>2722965

> Leorio's character design was 100% designed off of Stirner

It would explain why he's such an ego-centric prick too.


 No.2723526

File: 12a7f9af63d7180⋯.png (Spoiler Image, 572.54 KB, 533x800, 533:800, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2718285

A variation, so to speak


 No.2723554

File: 610aa8940ff5537⋯.png (619.99 KB, 960x628, 240:157, v7puk84m2ka01.png)


 No.2723559

>>2704549

Abortion debate between who?


 No.2723575

Requesting someone make a Judge Porky.

Pretty pls.


 No.2723630

>>2636225

best laugh I've had all month


 No.2723633

>>2673618

I thought you anarshits hated all ML leaders anyway


 No.2723638

File: be6189b8d84ad5a⋯.png (1.96 MB, 5000x2523, 5000:2523, USSA map flags.png)

>>2668255


 No.2723813

>>2723633

Even Brezhnev is better than Lukashenko.


 No.2723815

File: d361289d54e60b4⋯.png (2.04 MB, 988x2101, 988:2101, Scarlet Аылй.png)

Here is my OC Scarlet, the Russian Socialist.


 No.2723816


 No.2724019

File: e9f02eb029002f8⋯.png (104 KB, 600x600, 1:1, alunya thumbs up.png)

>>2723815

Nice to see more communist OCs


 No.2724035

>>2724019

Sure thing, thank you comrade.


 No.2724939

File: 641fe7f08088bc0⋯.png (529.6 KB, 673x736, 673:736, Mematic_meme_20181120_1310….png)

My homage to the centrist Facebook page Dispropaganda; their original meme was about how Russian history consisted of leaders (Ivan the Terrible, Lenin, Stalin and Putin) who invaded other countries and killed people


 No.2725544

File: b193132313e2806⋯.png (346.72 KB, 1500x1000, 3:2, fashcuck_01.png)

File: e60719e1d49685a⋯.png (352.68 KB, 1494x950, 747:475, fashcuck_02.png)


 No.2728166

File: 7ab99cc25fec7d6⋯.png (2.85 MB, 1363x1524, 1363:1524, hillary appeasement tactic….png)


 No.2728493

>>2724939

>dispropaganda

god they peddled some of the worst anti-communist garbage


 No.2728524

>>2728166

>People who want stricter immigration controls are akin to the Nazis

>Politicians who do what the public demand are engaged in appeasement

Scorching take


 No.2728614

>>2728524

forgetting that immigration is the number one concern of nazis and submitting to their demands isn't naziism, epic my good sir


 No.2728864

>>2650597

can we get this but with Marx?


 No.2728872

File: fee2343b5de98bd⋯.jpg (35.16 KB, 654x647, 654:647, 46520655_1937571369630472_….jpg)

If anyone can edit this so that she has a Makarov and an NKVD hat, you'll be a hero forever


 No.2728914

What we need is a proper Blend (S)oviet


 No.2728918

File: 4800b460c19af35⋯.jpeg (83.1 KB, 750x1199, 750:1199, nico gun.jpeg)

>>2728872

first off, let me give you a non-cropped version


 No.2728920

File: e45deb0a28c28a4⋯.jpg (137.94 KB, 768x978, 128:163, валить.jpg)

>>2728918

Step 1: make it black and white

Step 2: find the original non-gun photo and insert the fist from pic-related

Step 3: Find a nkvd hat png and edit it on.


 No.2728947

>>2728918

>>2728920

very nice, my photoshop skills are lacking but I'll see what I can do comrades


 No.2729931

File: 28a1c862be0960b⋯.png (389.02 KB, 447x646, 447:646, ItrU3o3.png)

>>2728872

>>2728918

>>2728947

>>2728920

Made by someone on my discord server


 No.2730951

File: fce267ce5bacb25⋯.jpg (196.03 KB, 1302x1388, 651:694, IMG_20181126_223445_382.jpg)

Here's another anime girl but she's based off of the left.

>Her name is Lefty-Chan, and I dunno what else to name her. But I hope you all like her.


 No.2730981

>>2729931

kek, love it

>>2730951

keep it up, she's very cute


 No.2731347

>>2730981

Okey dokey comrade!

>Thank you very much!


 No.2731622

File: 5c7e7b2526e382f⋯.png (278.96 KB, 512x387, 512:387, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2730951

A-are you Cupcake_Kitty179?


 No.2732175

>>2731622

Yes I am, I'm also Lucyanna-Arts on Tumblr and Rainbowdoodler209 on DA.


 No.2732178

Is it bad that I want to make a character based off of the Bourgeois and Porky?


 No.2733696

File: 2b24cf7a7df028d⋯.png (1.07 MB, 1603x1075, 1603:1075, Template V1 - Without Spur….png)

File: 273860cdec8b6ff⋯.png (1.06 MB, 1603x1075, 1603:1075, Template V1 - Without Spur….png)

File: cec4d7f6526eb91⋯.png (1.92 MB, 1621x1099, 1621:1099, Spurdo V4.png)

File: 9573da5952b8ccc⋯.png (1.42 MB, 1603x1075, 1603:1075, Comrade Corbyn.png)

Reposting these from the /thrash/ thread.


 No.2733755

File: e97c128a2da8763⋯.png (878.28 KB, 2048x1158, 1024:579, Star of Hope-1.png)

Here's a little socialist propaganda illistration. I'm not sure what I wanted to add for text since it's my first socialist propaganda drawing.

>Please enjoy comrades.


 No.2733880

>>2733755

reminds me of zombie-chan from Zombie Land Saga


 No.2734204

>>2733880

Huh, that's pretty interesting.


 No.2734205

File: 9aa371ca9616f65⋯.png (1.49 MB, 1080x2220, 18:37, 649706_asykes_hvl-36.png)

Here is Hvl-36.

>And she's also a russian tank, I probably could've given her some tank parts but I forgot.


 No.2735856

File: f3095879b83bae0⋯.png (383.74 KB, 1200x720, 5:3, POSADASGANGUE.png)

official posadist flag coming through


 No.2736021

>>2734205

Pls make more Soviet tankfus


 No.2736023

>>2736016

But if China wins then the DPRK wins and if the US wins then R-java wins.


 No.2736455

File: 5be0904cde05c2b⋯.png (1.07 MB, 1100x1412, 275:353, spurdo spolpot.png)

File: 3c3c3933c48150b⋯.png (258.63 KB, 342x532, 9:14, nick2thething.png)

File: 8ae14945d659db6⋯.png (310.92 KB, 480x360, 4:3, to the maximillen.png)

File: c5ed3385bc9ef21⋯.png (279.34 KB, 474x279, 158:93, generao mouro apurando a r….png)

File: 14e0351f0c274e1⋯.png (455.6 KB, 550x413, 550:413, posadismobr.png)

Sorry in advance if some are not actually oc or if I posted one of these already, I don't segregate my memes.


 No.2736511

File: 3bbf706151a9434⋯.jpg (646.18 KB, 2000x2749, 2000:2749, 08c77a6355ac676340d65d068c….jpg)

←- Discord for /leftypol/'s content creators to discuss and share their work, have it be critiqued by their peers, but also for those looking for advice on how to improve.

EDIT: Discord shilling not allowed

Post last edited at

 No.2736641

>>2734205

>>2731622

>>2730951

Why are you not posting these in your own OC thread on >>/leftyweebpol/ as well?


 No.2736918

>>2736641

Oh right, I guess I never thought of that.

I probably should start my new OC thread.


 No.2737165

File: 54697056bd8e716⋯.jpg (123.01 KB, 548x1266, 274:633, editable.jpg)

make this good /leftypol.


 No.2737240

File: d2c11f9ee878a24⋯.png (262.56 KB, 548x1266, 274:633, 54697056bd8e716321d4d84fb5….png)


 No.2737244


 No.2737252

>>2737240

not bad at all


 No.2737264

File: 5cfe92845439b4b⋯.png (102.55 KB, 548x1266, 274:633, actual exploitable.png)

>>2737240

also easier exploitable with transparency


 No.2738171

File: b3e9c6eeebd7d53⋯.jpg (360.94 KB, 548x1681, 548:1681, edit.jpg)

File: f8b98b97cd5e619⋯.png (3.52 MB, 548x1681, 548:1681, editable2.png)

someone do something with this, this was my take


 No.2738196

>>2738174

yeah that's the one I stole, it can be better


 No.2738216

>>2738171

>>2738174

Nice maymay


 No.2738222

File: 367dd6c788a12aa⋯.jpg (105.25 KB, 548x1681, 548:1681, b3e9c6eeebd7d531b4451363f0….jpg)


 No.2738300

File: 4040ae94ebc8329⋯.png (836.14 KB, 1080x1074, 180:179, Adobe_20181203_191114.png)

Let's get some garfield memes going


 No.2738400

>>2736021

Sure thing, oh and here's my art thread if you want to see it.

>I probably should make more tankfus then.

https://8ch.net/leftyweebpol/res/3059.html


 No.2738413

File: 38274070b5fc041⋯.png (162.52 KB, 940x300, 47:15, gay2.png)


 No.2738415

File: 4f5fd9b626aa497⋯.png (155.58 KB, 940x300, 47:15, gay3.png)

>>2738413

template


 No.2738449

File: cd1de8064ab5fbb⋯.jpg (82.73 KB, 940x300, 47:15, tolerance.jpg)

>>2738415

obligatory


 No.2738469

File: caabae284033486⋯.png (121.76 KB, 940x300, 47:15, sargonintellecut.png)

>>2738413

idk about this one. But his comics are easy to edit.


 No.2738551

File: d66506b3c3fb7ef⋯.png (161.45 KB, 940x300, 47:15, Ancap.png)

This needed to be done.


 No.2738727

File: bbaa534aa1a3602⋯.png (554.28 KB, 712x712, 1:1, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2738469

>>2738551

Does anyone have the edited version of pic related, only where it was about how Stlain couldn't have executed 60 million?


 No.2739900

File: 03dc1b06ba13361⋯.webm (95.05 KB, 640x360, 16:9, WDTHTDWVG.webm)

File: 181710e325df518⋯.jpg (19.81 KB, 640x360, 16:9, WDTHTDWVG.jpg)

File: 78a6e611e03d929⋯.png (205.73 KB, 640x360, 16:9, WDTHTDWVE1.png)

i love this meme, so i did pulled all this out to try to make something out of it. sorry for the lame ms paint work


 No.2739966

File: 9db9f6b72354e4d⋯.gif (1.52 KB, 37x120, 37:120, ilaudiou.gif)

File: 1a0371a9ae3dd61⋯.gif (3.87 KB, 86x120, 43:60, adfusgdi.gif)


 No.2739977

>>2578931

I prefer to have both because wet underwear isn't a great feeling either.

Also, if you spray and wipe with your hand (as is the SEAfag way), you end up dripping butt water onto the toilet seat as well as the stall lock if it happens to be on the left. God fucking help you if there's no soap next to the sink.


 No.2740197

>>2739977

How would that work? TP is made to dissolve in water, you can't dry your ass with it.

I never used a bidet but I assumed there was an ass towel or something.


 No.2741282

File: adb5740ae4e29eb⋯.png (418.05 KB, 739x808, 739:808, we wuz kold.png)


 No.2741329

File: 0917782f998e65a⋯.png (71.38 KB, 500x354, 250:177, oh gosh.png)


 No.2741839

File: a5089c0e0dedc7e⋯.jpg (223.58 KB, 760x596, 190:149, cooties.jpg)

Not OC, but a really good analogy for capitalism coming from a non-leftist webcomic (Oglaf, that sex joke comic).


 No.2741846

>>2741839

Where's the analogy?


 No.2741886

Found this from ZDF Neo, a mock leftist song about Parcel couriers: we should use it as agitpop with a translation underneath.

https://youtu.be/pQsS0VqM4aA


 No.2741916

>>2741886

also mir gefällt das nicht besonders, klingt mehr als würde er sich über die sache lustig machen statt mit humor eine eine bittere pille zu verarbreichen

böhrmann ist mehr ein clown als kabarettist


 No.2741968

>>2741916

I think he is trying to make the point that the "traditional working class" of steel workers ect. doesn't exist anymore: instead we have teamsters, which also need to have a movement around them. Still, as far as the song goes it is pretty good.


 No.2742624

File: a425eedc45ae026⋯.png (2.04 MB, 1967x3046, 1967:3046, WM-704-1.png)

Might as well post this here as well.

>WM-704


 No.2742718

>>2742714

if you can't speak English, it's alright to post in languages that you can speak


 No.2742938

File: c8057f0638fc079⋯.webm (13.21 MB, 640x360, 16:9, DerheimlicheAufmarsch.webm)

I found this on Youtube and replaced the audio with a better quality version


 No.2744107

>>2636225

What song is this?


 No.2744122

>>2744107

sozialistische weltrepublik or Social World republic in English.


 No.2744154

>>2744122

not the anime aufmarsch one


 No.2744165

File: 8a1a75f7d4cfcb3⋯.jpg (16.06 KB, 205x255, 41:51, c32b324059e1e925d36c10529e….jpg)

>>2742714


 No.2744455

>>2744107

The Super Smash Bros. Brawl opening.


 No.2744884

>>2744650

Is that twiter user real?

I assume you are the creator


 No.2745992

>>2739966

Pretty cute!


 No.2746220

>>2744165

You have the original picture?


 No.2747032

File: 24d610ecc91eea5⋯.jpg (173.3 KB, 500x500, 1:1, 1402783_p0.jpg)

>>2722960

>underage porn


 No.2748016

>>2747032

>underage porn

hey I didn't make it, someone keeps upvoting it (despite the fact that I literally downvoted it a dozen times)


 No.2753915

File: c8b1fd80d5c15bc⋯.webm (3.76 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, leftykek_7.webm)


 No.2753975

>>2753915

Where's the original from?


 No.2754384

>>2747032

>underage porn

>a drawing of a catgirl

go back to fucking tumblr you bourgeois simpleton


 No.2754453

>>2754409

Kill yourself


 No.2754462


 No.2754467

>>2636225

Where's the footage of the NazBols marching at the end from?


 No.2754549

File: 46ee50d1859d3b2⋯.png (124.43 KB, 255x255, 1:1, ClipboardImage.png)

Anyone have this in high res?

It's a /leftypol/ edit of the Stonetoss comic, only instead of "muh holocaust" it's the holodomor and Stalin


 No.2754577

File: d3db64c56b46aa9⋯.jpg (60.1 KB, 712x712, 1:1, 0b87777490be8fbdc2edeecde8….jpg)


 No.2755521

File: fe405ff1df9b6e5⋯.png (4.04 MB, 2436x4056, 203:338, Hkm-17.png)

Hkm-17

>Another Russian Tankgirl

>couldn't think of more tank parts to add to her design


 No.2755744

File: 7be4aa5ee24640c⋯.jpg (171.46 KB, 700x850, 14:17, heavy infantry.jpg)

>>2755521

>more tank parts to add to her design

A turret, a gun maybe some mechanical parts like pic related.


 No.2755804

>>2754577

>hoarding grain

>not knowing what's zimnica

>the government hoarding grain is good

>knowingly planing to kill people with your decisions

Tankie get out


 No.2755806

File: 6cd1cac27045b8c⋯.png (248.01 KB, 1080x693, 120:77, kulak opposition.png)

File: 612f18fd8158a9f⋯.png (182.96 KB, 598x349, 598:349, mazepa.png)

File: 609c000b6482f19⋯.jpg (48.19 KB, 546x640, 273:320, kulak walks.jpg)

File: 05c33e32882a6b8⋯.jpg (21 KB, 438x318, 73:53, KULAK.jpg)

File: ff393ded91a3e09⋯.png (1.44 MB, 1935x851, 1935:851, death to kulaks.png)

>>2755804

>kulak apologism

Liberals get out


 No.2755814

File: 7db1ef39137acea⋯.gif (863.26 KB, 277x300, 277:300, littlefinger.gif)

>>2755806

>everyone I don't like is a kulak

>The government will take your cattle if you don't meet the quota

>Kill it an eat it or sell it to make a living

>Wasn't able to produce the same amount as in 1931

>Stole more grain from the people to "suppress Ukrainian nationalism"

>Causing the birth rate to decrease and infant mortality to increase

t. stupid authoritarian bootlicker

Also,

>arguing with pngs and jpgs

>mfw


 No.2755816

>>2755804

>Grain is zimnica

Ne verujem da si ih ubijali zbog tegle ajvara ili par zivih paprika


 No.2755823

File: c48b720f5580e41⋯.jpg (52.88 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, bernie.jpg)

>>2755816

Jok brate, nego kad ti neko uzme svu psenicu zbog retarda ili zato sto mu nisi kvotu popunio sta ce drugo covjeku da se desi, da voli Staljina i da mu pise ljubavne pjesme?

Ljudi su jebote jeli druge ljude tada, crkavali od gladi, pogotovo najmladi jer ih majke nisu imali cime hraniti zbog politickih igara onih koji nosaju bolje cipele od njih.

Jes kurac, i cude se ljudi sto mu mladez iz Ukrajine nedavno otopile metal iz statua. Vlade svijeta, ne samo Sovjeta neka prvo krive sebe za svoje greske jer se njih ticu najvise.

Krivi Amer Rusa za ovo, Krivi Rusa Amera, krivi Arap Evropu, kad su svi govna svoja pojeli zbog svog Ega, i neprihvatanja krivice i odgovornosti za bilo sta lose, jer svako drugi mora biti kriv, svako, sem njih naravno.


 No.2755826

>>2755804

>Zimnica

not what they were doing you twat

read this and piss off rad-lib https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1109532


 No.2755828

>>2755814

t.Banderite

see >>2755826


 No.2755829

>>2755823

Naravno da ce psenica da se uzima kad je pola drzave bilo spaljeno, sta sad, to sto je tvoje polje prezivelo paljenje znaci da mozes da kurcem mases po selu dok crkavaju drugi?

>Ljudi si jeli druge ljude tada

Je li takodje verujes da su Srbi jeli Hrvate i Bosance tokom rata?

I kakva je ovo glupost oko Ega, jel to krivis pojedince iz svake drzave il sta?


 No.2755836

>>2755814

>arguing with pngs and jpgs

Not a refutation, the images contain sourced arguments


 No.2755889

>>2755829

Kada je pola drzave spaljeno majke ti?

>>2755826

Examined it all, and it's missing, really a lot of key info that's hidden really badly, but nice KGBing.

The drought wasn't nearly as big as the one in 1921, and don't downplay the fault of industrialization, because it's the reason why this famine happened in the first place. Literally the same thing happened in Kazakhstan, but that's just right wing, or CIA, or muslim propaganda right? You force something to people and you get a famine as a result of your own bloody five year plan and then you wonder why the demographics loss of the famine gave Ukraine 10 million people less today. Even Gorbachev talked about half his village dying in the famine.

The Soviet government was planing to use the grain as a bargaining chip to fully industrialize the country and it's literally written in the letter they sent to the Hague Economics conference. The Western countries didn't allow the Soviets to receive any loans whatsoever because they refused to pay the pre-revolutionary ones, then Kremljin said fuck you to the Ukranians, massive quotas were implemented on the farmers and anyone who didn't meet them would have their cattle stolen and be sent off to jail. They replaced Pomhol with Naslidhol, ignored the famine while at the same time allowing the food from the Western countries to arrive while at the same time which didn't go to Ukraine directly but was also exported into Russia, exporting the grain from Ukraine to Western countries. It wasn't until 1932 when the railway workers had enough of the Soviet government and went on strikes refusing to transport the grain who alongside the farmers refused to hand over the grain to anyone. And yeah, there was an incident where the contra revolutionaries blew up grain, 10 000 tons, what about, you know the millions upon millions of tons that were in hands of the Soviets, they have been forgotten. So the government went on a heavy crackdown on dissidents which increased terror, increased the famine, and increased the tragedy of the event. Romanchuk, a delegate from Ukraine said that

"Perhaps in Moscow, where one is well-fed, one can elaborate export projects. In the Kherson region, once rich but now starving, not only is it impossible to speak about such things seriously but, I would add, it is dangerous to mention them to peasants and especially workers. (…) It is from the south that the grain will leave; it will precisely pass through the country where 4 million people are starving and will probably not be able to survive until spring. With tears in my eyes, I saw heaps of rotting grain around which comrade soldiers of the Red Army were keeping guard, absolutely uselessly, since instead of grain there was only manure."

The government literally bragged on about how much profit they got from selling grain to West Germany, and all the while, ignoring pleas from anyone from Ukraine to lower the demand.

Going from 16, to 20, and then to 64 mortality rate while having a natality rate of 17 per 1k is just good fucking shit, don't you agree.

But hey,

IT'S ALWAYS

SOMEONE

ELSE

P.S. Nice ban you got there, a really good argument isn't it.


 No.2755945

>>2755889

>Gorbachev

Ah yes the lying scumbag who purposely destroyed the infrastructure of the USSR is a veritable source, y'know the same Gorbachev who tried to have Katyn blamed on the NKVD only for the court to refuse due to lack of evidence, confirmed by international review.

>don't downplay the fault of industrialization

I'm not, you are exaggerating it, not to mention Industrialization began after the famine.

>Drought wasn't as big as 1921

Wrong it was just as bad.

>the same thing happened in Kazakhstan

Yes because the drought affected a large area of the USSR you twat.

>demographics loss of the famine gave Ukraine 10 million people less today

False, the 10 million is reached through mental gymnastics on births that didn't happen. The population drops were caused by a combination of famine, disease and murders by anti-communist groups, as well as immigration and a lowered birth rate. No specific ethnic, religious, or racial group was persecuted, and those people that were persecuted for crimes related to the incident were persecuted for their crimes alone rather than for being connected to said group.

>The Soviet government was planing to use the grain as a bargaining chip to fully industrialize the country and it's literally written in the letter they sent to the Hague Economics conference.

And?

>government literally bragged on about how much profit they got from selling grain to West Germany

Citation needed

>Uncited quote by Romanchuk that originates from a Ukrainian Nationalist site that lacks primary sources.

>It wasn't until 1932 when the railway workers had enough of the Soviet government and went on strikes refusing to transport the grain who alongside the farmers refused to hand over the grain to anyone.

citation needed

>Western countries didn't allow the Soviets to receive any loans whatsoever because they refused to pay the pre-revolutionary ones

Uhh no that wasn't the reason at all, not to mention that the USSR had no obligation to pay those loans to the Russian empire.

>Kremljin said fuck you to the Ukranians, massive quotas were implemented on the farmers and anyone who didn't meet them would have their cattle stolen and be sent off to jail.

False

>muh ban

Well deserved for you, rad-lib


 No.2755948

>>2755889

>ignoring pleas from anyone from Ukraine to lower the demand.

>Going from 16, to 20, and then to 64 mortality rate while having a natality rate of 17 per 1k is just good fucking shit, don't you agree.

Ass pulled numbers and bullshit projection.

Г. С. Ткаченко, Миф о Фолодоморе Иѕобпетение Манипулјаторов Цоѕнаием, first published on KM.RU, Dec. 25, 2006. Research showed that the Soviet Union took actions to save people affected by the Holodomor and tried to reduce the damage and losses caused by the famine.

the USSR was in a rather tight spot where casualties were inevitable. Now you might ask, why didn’t they send help to the afflicted areas, the answer is simple, initially soviet leadership in Ukraine (and thus in Moscow) was not fully aware of the famine’s extent as shown here in a translation of several letters and telegrams telegrams:

From the Archive of the President of the Russian Federation[8]. Fond 3, Record Series 40, File 80, Page 58

Excerpt from the protocol number of the meeting of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist party (Bolsheviks) “Regarding Measures to Prevent Failure to Sow in Ukraine, March 16th, 1932.

"The Political Bureau believes that shortage of seed grain in Ukraine is many times worse than what was described in comrade Kosior’s telegram; therefore, the Political Bureau recommends the Central Committee of the Communist party of Ukraine to take all measures within its reach to prevent the threat of failing to sow [field crops] in Ukraine."

Signed: Secretary of the Central Committee – J. STALIN - Letter to Joseph Stalin from Stanislaw Kosior, 1st secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine regarding the course and the perspectives of the sowing campaign in Ukraine, April 26th, 1932.

"There are also isolated cases of starvation, and even whole villages [starving]; however, this is only the result of bungling on the local level, deviations [from the party line], especially in regard of kolkhozes. All rumours about “famine” in Ukraine must be unconditionally rejected. The crucial help that was provided for Ukraine will give us the opportunity to eradicate all such outbreaks [of starvation]." - Letter from Joseph Stalin to Stanislaw Kosior, 1st secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine, April 26th, 1932.

"Comrade Kosior!

You must read attached summaries. Judging by this information, it looks like the Soviet authority has ceased to exist in some areas of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. Can this be true? Is the situation invillages in Ukraine this bad? Where are the operatives of the OGPU [Joint Main Political Directorate], what are they doing?Could you verify this information and inform the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist party about taken measures." - Sincerely, J. Stalin


 No.2755950

>>2755889

“Collectivization was not an orderly process following bureaucratic rules. It consisted of actions by the poor peasants, encouraged by the Party. The poor peasants were eager to expropriate the “kulaks,” but less eager to organize a cooperative economy. By 1930 the Party and already sent out cadres to stem and correct excesses… After having exercised restraint in 1930, the Party put on a drive again in 1932. As a result, in that year the kulak economy ceased to produce, and the new collective economy did not yet produce fully.” - Blumenfeld, Hans. Life Begins at 65. Montreal, Canada: Harvest House, c1987, p. 152

“During the 1932 harvest season Soviet agriculture experienced a crisis. Natural disasters, especially plant diseases spread and intensified by wet weather in mid-1932, drastically reduced crop yields. OGPU reports, anecdotal as they are, indicate widespread peasant opposition to the kolkhoz system. These documents contain numerous reports of kolkhozniki, faced with starvation, mismanagement and abuse by kolkhoz officials and others, and desperate conditions: dying horses, idle tractors, infested crops, and incitement by itinerant people. Peasants’ responses varied: some applied to withdraw from their farms, some left for paid work outside, some worked sloppily, intentionally leaving grain on the fields while harvesting to glean later for themselves.” - Tauger, Mark. “Soviet Peasants and Collectivization, 1930-39: Resistance and Adaptation.” In Rural Adaptation in Russia by Stephen Wegren, Routledge, New York, NY, 2005, Chapter 3, p. 81.

“Their [kulak] opposition took the initial form of slaughtering their cattle and horses in preference to having them collectivized. The result was a grievous blow to Soviet agriculture, for most of the cattle and horses were owned by the kulaks. Between 1928 and 1933 the number of horses in the USSR declined from almost 30,000,000 to less than 15,000,000; of horned cattle from 70,000,000 (including 31,000,0000 cows) to 38,000,000 (including 20,000,000 cows); of sheep and goats from 147,000,000 to 50,000,000; and of hogs from 20,000,000 to 12,000,000. Soviet rural economy had not recovered from this staggering loss by 1941. […] Some [kulaks] murdered officials, set the torch to the property of the collectives, and even burned their own crops and seed grain. More refused to sow or reap, perhaps on the assumption that the authorities would make concessions and would in any case feed them.” - Russia Since 1917, Four Decades Of Soviet Politics by Frederick L. Schuman

“Almost all the collective farms established in 1931 and 1932 were shockingly mismanaged. What else could be expected when every village in Russia had been the scene of bitter internal strife, when animals had been slaughtered or allowed to die through incompetence, and grain had been buried, and barns and houses burned? It has been estimated that livestock dropped by 50% during those tragic years and there were large areas, as I saw with my own eyes in the North Caucasus in 1933, where miles of weeds and desolation replaced the former grainfields…” - Duranty, Walter. Stalin & Co. New York: W. Sloane Associates, 1949, p. 77[11]

“During the thirties, the far-right, linked with the Hitlerites, had already fully exploited the propaganda theme of `deliberately provoked famine to exterminate the Ukrainian people’. But after the Second World War, this propaganda was `adjusted’ with the main goal of covering up the barbaric crimes committed by German and Ukrainian Nazis, to protect fascism and to mobilise Western forces against Communism.” - Martens, Ludo. Another View of Stalin. Antwerp, Belgium: EPO, Lange Pastoorstraat 25-27 2600, p. 113 (Pg 96 on the internet pdf) [12]

“This destruction of the productive forces had, of course, disastrous consequences: in 1932, there was a great famine, caused in part by the sabotage and destruction done by the kulaks. But anti-Communists blame Stalin and the `forced collectivization’ for the deaths caused by the criminal actions of the kulaks.” - Martens, Ludo. Another View of Stalin. Antwerp, Belgium: EPO, Lange Pastoorstraat 25-27 2600, p. 79 [p. 66 on the pdf]

“In 1931 and 1932, the Soviet Union was in the depth of the crisis, due to socio-economic upheavals, to desperate kulak resistance, to the little support that could be given to peasants in these crucial years of industrial investment, to the slow introduction of machines and to drought.” - Charles Bettelheim. L’Economie sovietique (Paris: ƒ editions Recueil Sirey, 1950), p. 82


 No.2755953

>>2617130

a bidet is usually part of the house's plumbing, so a hardware store.


 No.2755970

>>2755950

>this copy pasta will sure work


 No.2755988

File: 1b8b3da5e605ea4⋯.jpg (62.35 KB, 432x326, 216:163, stop being poor.jpg)

>>2755945

>Ah yes the lying scumbag who purposely destroyed…

Sure…

Citations

http://diasporiana.org.ua/wp-content/uploads/books/16737/file.pdf

Eat your heart out.

>I'm not, you are exaggerating it, not to mention Industrialization began after the famine.

The industrialization process began with the five year plan, and continued on in Ukraine, so yeah, null.

>The population drops were caused by a combination of famine, disease and murders by anti-communist groups, as well as immigration and a lowered birth rate.

Oh, I'm sorry, all those things happened in the span of three years and all the other years see a constant and steady mortality and natality. Just because you named other factors does not mean that they are major.

>Uhh no that wasn't the reason at all, not to mention that the USSR had no obligation to pay those loans to the Russian empire.

Under, the MMF law, and, International law, it had. Just like any other country in the world because just because a regime change happened, does not make any debt null.

>Well deserved for you, rad-lib

>Why are right wingers confined in an echo chamber

>Is in an echo chamber

>Can't see that he's the same like them

GG

(Snyder, Timothy (2010). Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin.)

>Snyder lists seven crucial policies that applied only, or mainly, to Soviet Ukraine. He states: "Each of them may seem like an anodyne administrative measure, and each of them was certainly presented as such at the time, and yet each had to kill":

>From 18 November 1932 peasants from Ukraine were required to return extra grain they had previously earned for meeting their targets. State police and party brigades were sent into these regions to root out any food they could find.

>Two days later, a law was passed forcing peasants who could not meet their grain quotas to surrender any livestock they had.

>Eight days later, collective farms that failed to meet their quotas were placed on "blacklists" in which they were forced to surrender 15 times their quota. These farms were picked apart for any possible food by party activists. Blacklisted communes had no right to trade or to receive deliveries of any kind, and became death zones.

>On 5 December 1932, Stalin's security chief presented the justification for terrorizing Ukrainian party officials to collect the grain. It was considered treason if anyone refused to do their part in grain requisitions for the state.

>In November 1932 Ukraine was required to provide 1/3 of the grain collection of the entire Soviet Union. As Lazar Kaganovich put it, the Soviet state would fight "ferociously" to fulfill the plan.

In January 1933 Ukraine's borders were sealed in order to prevent Ukrainian peasants from fleeing to other republics. By the end of February 1933 approximately 190,000 Ukrainian peasants had been caught trying to flee Ukraine and were forced to return to their villages to starve.

The collection of grain continued even after the annual requisition target for 1932 was met in late January 1933.

(Stalin and the Soviet Famine of 1932 – 33 Revisited Michael Ellman)

Also, as a side note:

"…in 1932–1933 grain exports amounted to 1.8 million tonnes, which would have been enough to feed 5 million people for one year."

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.2755994

>>2755945

On, another side note, yeah the 21 drought was much worse, and gave fewer amounts of grain than needed, the difference between 21 and 32 is that, in 21 they didn't have the food, in 32, they did.


 No.2755999

File: 25938c1ce30035d⋯.png (127.99 KB, 182x279, 182:279, 1c55ba36bafd6d7afaaaeb207b….png)

Ok what's going on here?

What's this talk about "grain hoarding" and "famines" and why for fucks sake is it in the OC Thread?


 No.2756000

>>2755945

> y'know the same Gorbachev who tried to have Katyn blamed on the NKVD only for the court to refuse due to lack of evidence, confirmed by international review.

LOL, forgot to add this one as well. For goodness sake the documents have been declassified and Russia admitted its role in the murder, it's literally common knowledge past 2001 period.


 No.2756011

>>2756000

>Russia admitted its role in the murder

The current Russian regime is anti-Communist so it's hardly a case of 'the perpetrators admitted to it'.


 No.2756015

>>2756011

Yeah, they declassified the evidence, and based on the evidence presented, we see the orders from the NKVD point to a higher authority giving the all clear when it came to executions. Also, most of the documents are classified, most likely implying some more shady dealings with the Nazis which I assume happened since the two sides were good for a short period of time.

Also, the current Russian government, is kinda ruled by an ex-KGB agent, that VENERATES Soviet Russia and praises its role in WW2 and claims that it's the savior of the world, and the main factor in the fight against fascism. And on another side, it has, holocaust denial laws and is cracking down on right wing hate groups on a daily basis. Nominaly, it's ok.

And trust me, I have a personal distain for all transgressors of freedom, be they on the left or the right.


 No.2756022

>>2756011

On a side note before I get banned out, I'll give you a small piece of advise

Princes don't wear fancy armor or have nice crowns anymore, not even royal gowns

They wear suits with fancy ties, party mandated uniforms and thawbs

They've changed outfits but their underlying principle is the same, to rule over you

A free man has no rulers, for he rules himself>>2756011


 No.2756024


 No.2756028

>>2756015

>supporting Yeltsin

>not an anticommunist

pick 1

>praises its role in WW2 and claims that it's the savior of the world, and the main factor in the fight against fascism

everyone but america know this is true


 No.2756032

>>2756028

Just because someone does not fit into your own ideological point of view does not mean that they are a bad human. Do make friends with a diverse set of people, it really improves your life.

And another thing I've noticed, two socialists in the same room will support 4 parties and have 16 different opinions so it's pointless to talk about who's the

>BIGGER COMMUNIST

And yeah, did you know that Putin, said that he wishes that the SSSR stayed together.>>2756028

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.2756033

>>2756032

Putin isnt a communist. His wish for the USSR to stay together comes from a geopolitical interest in having a strong military and material base for russia and russian capitalist interests.

He isnt a soviet, he is just as much a capitalist as merkel, obama or trump.


 No.2756041

>>2756011 (me)

>>2756015

Actually I fucked up - it wasn't the current Russian regime that admitted to it, it was the USSR in 1989-90, which was far more anti-Soviet and had an interest in discrediting the Stalin-era USSR.


 No.2756046

File: e2a9af030192a1a⋯.png (6.81 MB, 2267x8334, 2267:8334, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2755970

> copy pasta

Not a refutation, also considering that I wrote them out before in an essay, copy-pasting my own work is not an argument against it regardless.

>>2755988

>ndustrialization process began with the five year plan

5 year PLANS of which the first one focused primarily on collectivization in preparation FOR industrialization.

>.ua

HMMMMMMM

>Written by 2 Ukrainian nationalists who deliberately clip quotes and exclude anything that would cripple their distorted argument. christ it's like reading Robert Conquest all over again.

>all those things happened in the span of three years

Yes, it's not that strange, things can happen quickly you moron.

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.

For want of a shoe the horse was lost.

For want of a horse the rider was lost.

For want of a rider the message was lost.

For want of a message the battle was lost.

For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.

And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

1 small fuck up, let alone a number of them can be enough to change the tide of things drastically.

>Under, the MMF law, and, International law, it had.

No it did not, not to mention that there was no international law created prior to the League of Nations that had absolute authority. The laws applied to the Russian Empire, to whom the loans belonged. The bolshevik government had not taken those loans and thus was not the ones who ought to pay for them, especially as the White Russians as a group still existed, and therefore were the ones to whom the loan belonged to.

>is in echo chamber

Not really, dialectical materialist analysis m8, learn it.

>ur de same

fuck off false equivelator.

>Timothy SHNYDER

Grover Furr wrote an entire book debunking him point by point, read it fag.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180920095700/https://heavywatergate.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/furr_blood_lies-2014.pdf

>"…in 1932–1933 grain exports amounted to 1.8 million tonnes, which would have been enough to feed 5 million people for one year."

This shit again, Here is the export data [5] [6] [7]:

In the year 1930 they exported 4,846,024 tonnes, In 1931 the number increased to 5,182,835 tonnes. In 1932, which is the year when the famine began they exported much less. Only 1,819,114 tonnes. AND here it comes. They imported 750,000 tonnes during the first half of 1932 and from late April 157,000 tonnes. The amount of export further decreased the next year and another 200,000 tonnes was also imported. They exported only a fraction of what they normally would have and even imported over a million tonnes and sent food aid when they realized the extent of the famine. Doesn’t seem much like deliberate genocide, does it. Also the reason they even exported grain and various raw materials to begin with was because that is what all under developed agrarian and semi-feudal countries do. Soviet Union in particular had a good reason for it because they were trying to acquire the necessary capital to industrialize and escape backwardness forever, which they did. They were one of the rare countries to actually pull off such a feat. This is particularly impressive considering that they had no access to foreign loans, not to mention the lack of colonies.

[5] http://avr.org.ua/index.php/Ust/169/?a=1

[6] http://busin.biz/library/soviet%20union/stalin/Wheatcroft,%20Stephen%20G.%20'The%20Industrialisation%20of%20Soviet%20Russia%20-%20Volume%205,%20The%20Years%20of%20Hunger%20Soviet%20Agriculture%201931-1933'.pdf

[7] http://www.archives.gov.ua/Sections/Famine/Publicat/Fam-Pyrig-1933.php

>>2755994

>bla bla bla projection based rubbish

>>2756000

>Russia admitted

Capialist modern Russia

>>2756015

>we see orders

orders proven to be hoaxes in an actual court and by actual historians

http://dnr-iskra.ru/evropejskij-sud-prinyal-sensatsionnoe-reshenii-o-tom-chto-predostavlennye-pri-gorbacheve-i-eltsine-dokumenty-ukazyvayushhie-na-to-chto-v-rasstrele-desyatkov-tysyach-polskih-ofitserov-pod-katynyu-povin/

https://web.archive.org/web/20180130053754/http://www.english.battlefield.ru:80/analytics/137-katyn-revised.html

http://katynmassakern.blogspot.com

https://mythcracker.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/katyn-49-signs-of-falsification-of-“closed-package-no-1”/

>ex-KGB

irrelevant

>VENERATES Soviet Russia

Using symbols for patriotic propaganda is not veneration, especially when his government also supports doing shit like having Solzhenitsyn taught as a source on Gulags in schools, and put up statues and memorials to people like Mannerheim and Kolchak


 No.2756060

>>2756032

>Just because someone does not fit into your own ideological point of view does not mean that they are a bad human

Found the liberal


 No.2756090

>>2756046

I don't have time to respond to the rest and I'll stick to my topic.

>In the year 1930 they exported 4,846,024 tonnes, In 1931 the number increased to 5,182,835 tonnes. In 1932, which is the year when the famine began they exported much less. Only 1,819,114 tonnes. AND here it comes. They imported 750,000 tonnes during the first half of 1932 and from late April 157,000 tonnes. The amount of export further decreased the next year and another 200,000 tonnes was also imported. They exported only a fraction of what they normally would have and even imported over a million tonnes and sent food aid when they realized the extent of the famine.

First of all, that wasn't Shnyders claim, that was Ellmans.

Second of all, he said similar stuff, but with extra detail.

>In 1932, via Ukrainian commercial ports the following amounts were exported: 988,300 tons of grains and 16,500 tons of other types of cereals. In 1933, the totals were: 809,600 tons of grains, 2,600 tons of other cereals, 3,500 tons of meat, 400 tons of butter, and 2,500 tons of fish.

>Those same ports imported the following amounts: less than 67,200 tons of grains and cereals in 1932, and 8,600 tons of grains in 1933.

>The following amounts were received from other Soviet ports: in 1932, 164,000 tons of grains, 7,300 tons of other cereals, 31,500 tons of meat and butter, and no more than 177,000 tons of meat and butter;

>In 1933, 230,000 tons of grains, 15,300 tons if other cereals, 100 tons of meat, 900 tons of butter, and 34,300 tons of fish.

So, not really, the millions you have claimed, also, the food they have imported was not only used for Ukraine but distributed among other Soviet nations :)

And his point still stands, if they didn't export the food they had they could have fed those people, but Kremljin chose money over life.

Moving on, I'm not going to read broken links or evidence from RUSSIANTRUTHFUCKNAZI.RU, and revisit moonrunes.ru

Final point, the case for the low export, was, constant collectivization:

>After grain collection difficulties in 1927 and 1928, Stalin ordered the creation of state grain and meat enterprises—sovkhozes—which according to his initial vision should deliver more than 100 million poods of grain in 1932. However, in 1932 their production results were disastrous due to poor general and agricultural management and planning, despite the significant (as compared to kolkhozes) amount of modern agricultural mechanisms (agricultural tractors, harvesters, etc.) employed. The main reason for low output was that wheat was continually sown, beginning in 1929, on the same areas without fertilizers. Sovkhozes also suffered from a lack of manpower and infrastructure (roads, elevators etc.). Losses during harvesting were extremely high. Thus, instead of the expected 290 millions of poods (more than 5 million tons) in 1932, sovkhozes produced 5 time less, while the situation with livestock was even worse. As of 20 July 1932, sovhozes of the Ukrainian SRR had logged 16% of the defined sowing area.

>This disparity between agricultural goals and actual production grew later in the year. An expected 190 thousand tons of grain were to be exported, but by August 27, 1932, only 20 thousand tons were ready.

>Stalin lowered procurement plan for the Ukrainian SSR by 40 million poods at the end of August 1932

>By October 25, the plan for grain collection was lowered once again

>Nevertheless, collection reached only 39% of the annually planned total.

>etc.

>On January 2, targets were again lowered to 62.5 million poods. On January 14, the targets were lowered even further to 33.1 million. At the same time, GPU of Ukraine reported hunger and starvation in the Kiev and Vinnytsia oblasts, and began implementing measures to remedy the situation. The total amount of grain collected by February 5 was only 255 million poods (compared to 440 million poods in 1931), while the numbers of "hunger and malnutrition cases" as registered by the GPU of Ukrainian SSR increased every day.

>Doesn’t seem much like deliberate genocide, does it.

Nah, just a bad case of government getting the good old, 1/3 of my harvest is gone because I didn't know how to properly manage it kind of genocide.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.2756101

>>2756090

>that wasn't Shnyders claim, that was Ellmans

Regardless it's rubbish

> not really, the millions you have claimed

His numbers are wrong

>I'm not going to read broken links or evidence from RUSSIANTRUTHFUCKNAZI.RU, and revisit moonrunes.ru

deliberate attack on the sources without addressing them, good job.

> just a bad case of government getting the good old, 1/3 of my harvest is gone because I didn't know how to properly manage it kind of genocide

Wow that's a manipulation such a bad one that it deliberately ignore the definition of a genocide. Good going. you obscene liar.

At this point there is nothing to argue with you. All you have done is spam sources that are biased and debunked while refusing to read mine despite most of them being from neutral sources or primary sources. In fact I actually cite a UKRAINIAN archive posted by the current ukrainian government, y'know the one that is anti-soviet and anti-russian and pushes the holodomor myth?

TL;DR you have failed to address me with an argument, just vomiting out old shit from debunked sources. Trolls like you deserve no more attention, fuck off back to >>>/leftpol/


 No.2756104

File: 42ed3321f80e412⋯.jpg (57.32 KB, 644x598, 14:13, chernobil.jpg)

>>2756101

>His numbers are wrong

No, they are from the Soviet official statistic.

>Regardless it's rubbish

Next time read, before writing something.

>deliberate attack on the sources without addressing them, good job.

>HE EXPECTS ME TO READ RUSSIAN LINKS IN A LANGUAGE THAT I CAN'T UNDERSTAND AT THE SAME TIME NOT READING THE EVIDENCE I POSTED IN ENGLISH BECAUSE IT DOES NOT FIT HIS POSITION

Big Uff

>Wow that's a manipulation such a bad one that it deliberately ignore the definition of a genocide. Good going. you obscene liar.

>All you have done is spam sources that are biased and debunked while refusing to read mine despite most of them being from neutral sources or primary sources.

TOP FUCKING KEK m8, are you sure you are sane? I know bootlickers like you have a hard time thinking because of them being constantly in bad spot but come on…

While you post information from a historian that is biased, and a Staljinist, and posting broken links, to Russian forums, in cyrilic, good job.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.2756107

>>2756101

Before you continue with your mental gymnastics, where did I mention the word genocide?


 No.2756113

File: 4853cce2e26346c⋯.png (51.07 KB, 1495x195, 23:3, NEUTRAL AND UNBIASED.PNG)

>>2756101

>NEUTRAL AND UNBIASED

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


 No.2756116

>>2756113

>Grover Furr

Nice cherry pick, try to say the same of Tauger and Wheatcroft. I said mostly neutral and unbiased


 No.2756120

>>2756107

right here

>>2756090

>just a bad case of government getting the good old, 1/3 of my harvest is gone because I didn't know how to properly manage it kind of genocide.

>>2756104

>from the Soviet official statistic.

And lack any sort of context, unlike mine, they ignore proper import and export values and the amount of food already IN the country itself

> EXPECTS ME TO READ RUSSIAN LINKS IN A LANGUAGE THAT I CAN'T UNDERSTAND

Google translate faggot

>NOT READING THE EVIDENCE I POSTED IN ENGLISH

I read those rubbish sources almost a decade ago when they were first published and wrote a small essay on the topic back when /leftypol/ was new, didn't screencap it but I've found portions online in various other places.

>more false equivalency

keep squealing

Cereals (in tonnes):

1930 – 4,846,024

1931 – 5,182,835

1932 – 1,819,114

1933 – 1,771,364

Only wheat (in tonnes):

1930 – 2,530,953

1931 – 2,498,958

1932 – 550,917

1933 – 748,248

As we can quite clearly see, the amount of grains imported from the Ukraine was actually far lower in the year leading up to, and in the year of the Holodomor; therefore, other causes must have been at work than importation. Dr. Mark Tauger suggests that the cause of this was mostly natural, and “fundamentally not man-made.” Dr. Tauger comes to the conclusion that the only impact that human actions had was to simply compound the already existing problem. Dr. Tauger’s data reveals that, in 1932, drought-like conditions in some areas of the country harmed production, while strangely humid weather allowed for blights to occur. Dr. Tauger gives the estimate that these entirely natural occurrences had the effect of wiping out up to 20% of the total harvest. [2]

Another assault against Stalin in relation to the famine was that his administration did not do enough to try to mitigate the losses; however, this too does not stand before scrutiny.

The first word of famine to reach the Soviet government in mid-January 1933, and the first shipment of food aid from the Soviet government arrived in the Ukraine on 7 Feb. 1933[3]. Food continued to arrive by the millions of pounds. Furthermore, on 20 March 1933, Stalin himself intervened, lowering the amount of grain to be used elsewhere by 14,000 tons; he further decreed that those 14,000 tons would be distributed to provide help to citizens in Kiev.

The second wave of famine hit in May 1933, and the Soviet government reacted by allocating 576,000 tons[4], later to be increased to 1.1 million tons[4], to be distributed as aid to the suffering Ukrainians. However, this aid was given to local government to be distributed accordingly, and, judging by the fact that some of these local government officials were heavily reprimanded for “sabotage” of the Soviet government’s efforts[5], it is likely that these local governments bear much of the burden that is usually placed entirely upon Stalin.

1: СССР в цифрах ЦУНХУ Госплана СССР. Москва 1935, page 574, 575

2: Mark B. Tauger, The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933, Slavic Review, Volume 50, Issue 1 (Spring, 1991), 70-89,

3: http://www.mid.ru/ns-arch.nsf/932b471b7dc29104c32572ba00560533/22fa7cb39af8e09ec32574bb003a7f8c? Documents 69 and 70. Also traces of such decisions (at least for Dnipropetrovsk region) can be found at Голод 1932-1933 років на Україні: очима істориків, мовою документівhttp://www.archives.gov.ua/Sections/Famine/Publicat/Fam-Pyrig-1933.php

4: Голод 1932-1933 років на Україні: очима істориків, мовою документів

5: On April 6, 1933, Sholokhov, who lived in the Vesenskii district (Kuban, Russian Federation), wrote at length to Stalin, describing the famine conditions and urging him to provide grain. Stalin received the letter on April 15, and on April 16 the Politburo granted 700 tons of grain to that district. Stalin sent a telegram to Sholokhov stating "We will do everything required. Inform size of necessary help. State a figure." Sholokhov replied on the same day, and on April 22, the day on which Stalin received the second letter, Stalin scolded him, "You should have sent your answer not by letter but by telegram. Time was wasted". Davies and Wheatcroft, p. 217


 No.2756122

>>2756116

>Proving him wrong is Cherry picking

>Providing him detailed information and proving him that collectivization and over exploitation of Ukrainian workers and farmers led to their massive death toll is wrong because it does not fit his world view

Because there is a difference when someone says:

>They imported 750,000 tonnes during the first half of 1932 and from late April 157,000 tonnes. The amount of export further decreased the next year and another 200,000 tonnes was also imported.

But what actually was:

>In 1932, via Ukrainian commercial ports the following amounts were exported: 988,300 tons of grains and 16,500 tons of other types of cereals. In 1933, the totals were: 809,600 tons of grains, 2,600 tons of other cereals, 3,500 tons of meat, 400 tons of butter, and 2,500 tons of fish.

>Those same ports imported the following amounts: less than 67,200 tons of grains and cereals in 1932, and 8,600 tons of grains in 1933.

>The following amounts were received from other Soviet ports: in 1932, 164,000 tons of grains, 7,300 tons of other cereals, 31,500 tons of meat and butter, and no more than 177,000 tons of meat and butter;

>In 1933, 230,000 tons of grains, 15,300 tons if other cereals, 100 tons of meat, 900 tons of butter, and 34,300 tons of fish.

>>2756116


 No.2756128

File: 05b9f670a707d53⋯.png (126.54 KB, 500x651, 500:651, holodomor meme.png)

>>2756122

Cherrypicking one source out of a dozen is cherrypicking, not proving someone wrong.

>detailed information and proving him that collectivization and over exploitation of Ukrainian workers and farmers led to their massive death toll

Except you only provided anecdotal statements, some dubiously out of context statistics and badly cited quotes.

>more cherrypicking

KYS


 No.2756137

File: 121225841f96e66⋯.png (309.83 KB, 1200x1114, 600:557, Some filthy balls_9969bd_6….png)

>>2756120

>right here

Got you in a lie there, you were the first one to mention the word, I was parodying it.

Also, do you like to lick heel to toes, or the other way around?

>Historian James Mace wrote that Tauger's argument "is not taken seriously by either Russians or Ukrainians who have studied the topic." David Marples, professor of history at the University of Alberta, was critical of Tauger's claims, stating: "Dr. Tauger and other scholars fail to distinguish between shortages, droughts and outright famine. There is no such thing as a 'natural' famine, no matter the size of the harvest. A famine requires some form of state or human input." Tauger's evidence, methodologies and conclusions in regard to the famine were criticized by Robert Davies and Stephen Wheatcroft in their book The Years of Hunger: Soviet Agriculture, 1931–33, published in 2004.

I've literally proven that the primary cause of the famine was man made, because the collectivization failed, and you still deny it.

>After grain collection difficulties in 1927 and 1928, Stalin ordered the creation of state grain and meat enterprises—sovkhozes—which according to his initial vision should deliver more than 100 million poods of grain in 1932. However, in 1932 their production results were disastrous due to poor general and agricultural management and planning, despite the significant (as compared to kolkhozes) amount of modern agricultural mechanisms (agricultural tractors, harvesters, etc.) employed. The main reason for low output was that wheat was continually sown, beginning in 1929, on the same areas without fertilizers. Sovkhozes also suffered from a lack of manpower and infrastructure (roads, elevators etc.). Losses during harvesting were extremely high. Thus, instead of the expected 290 millions of poods (more than 5 million tons) in 1932, sovkhozes produced 5 time less, while the situation with livestock was even worse. As of 20 July 1932, sovhozes of the Ukrainian SRR had logged 16% of the defined sowing area.


 No.2756139

>All these arguments about grain exports

Is everyone here just forgetting that the USSR couldn't trade with other countries using gold due to the gold blockade, with Western countries only accepting grain, oil, and/or timber as payment, with a large emphasis on grain? No machinary, farming equipment, or essential non-native resources could be purchased with gold (which they had a lot of) and had to be purchased with the resources mentioned before, so of course the Soviet exported grain. They reduced their use of grain as the famine started to occured, but it was still on of the required trading resources.


 No.2756153

File: 9629f35e20a0b89⋯.jpg (34.83 KB, 768x433, 768:433, идите на.jpg)

>>2756137

>Got you in a lie there, you were the first one to mention the word, I was parodying it

No you weren't you were wiggling. You stated that it was the purposeful killing of ukrainians, which would be a genocide, except that it was not and therefore was not.

>James Mace attacked Mark tauger and Wheatcroft while providing no argument aside from a vapid claim that they were not "distinguishing" despite their book being quite clear on that. Mace, like Werth has numerously shown himself to be an anti-communist shill.

> proven that the primary cause of the famine was man made

False, the famine was not man-made because if it were the hunger would have continued into 1935. but it did not, the majority of deaths were during 1933-34 due to incurable (at the time) diseases, rather than food shortages.

>repeating the same bullshit quote.

how lame.

Collectivization had the express purpose of eliminating a social class. Not the individuals belonging to the class but the class and the socio-economic relationships its existence depend on.

Resistance to collectivization (including sabotage), information warfare, poor planning and execution and a severe drought caused mass starvation in large swathes of the USSR, not only in Ukraine. The effects in Ukraine were harsher, however, because Ukraine was the agricultural heart of the USSR and agriculture has traditionally been the most important economic activity in most of Ukraine. Collectivization was not the reason for the famine and was what helped prevent more deaths from occurring. The fact that some places had failures because of mistakes, does not make the collectivization to blame, especially when immediately afterward the USSR did not have another famine until 1946 (caused by WW-2) which broke the almost constant 5 year cycle of famines in Russia over the past millenia.

>>2756142

see pic 1


 No.2756156

>>2756144

>If they were more cooperative

You mean if they broke down and let the capitalist west destroy them?

> they should learn to pay back their debt.

Wasn't their debt, nor was the debt the reason for the embargo.


 No.2756161

>>2756144

>If they were more cooperative, trade would have been more viable.

They literally had golden Chervonetz smelted to be used for trade and the west was going through the Great Depression, something an influx of gold could alleviate. But even with such economic problems going on, the west still rejected the use of gold for trade insisting instead on things they already had plenty of from trade with the US.


 No.2756163

>>2756153

>CTRL+F [purposeful killing of ukrainians]

Only stated by you in your post.

>False, the famine was not man-made because if it were the hunger would have continued into 1935.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What kind of a stupid logic is that, it's like saying that the massive famines in China didn't happen because they didn't get carried into the , (insert year here).

You have direct evidence of Staljins plan failing one by one and you refuse to admit it.

GG

>This disparity between agricultural goals and actual production grew later in the year. An expected 190 thousand tons of grain were to be exported, but by August 27, 1932, only 20 thousand tons were ready.

>Stalin lowered procurement plan for the Ukrainian SSR by 40 million poods at the end of August 1932

>By October 25, the plan for grain collection was lowered once again

>Nevertheless, collection reached only 39% of the annually planned total.

>etc.

>On January 2, targets were again lowered to 62.5 million poods. On January 14, the targets were lowered even further to 33.1 million. At the same time, GPU of Ukraine reported hunger and starvation in the Kiev and Vinnytsia oblasts, and began implementing measures to remedy the situation. The total amount of grain collected by February 5 was only 255 million poods (compared to 440 million poods in 1931), while the numbers of "hunger and malnutrition cases" as registered by the GPU of Ukrainian SSR increased every day.

>You mean if they broke down and let the capitalist west destroy them?

I mean, it did, check mate.

:)

Freedom>Totalitarian regimes

>Wasn't their debt, nor was the debt the reason for the embargo.

It was a regime change, that still had the duty to change debts. Just because they changed the systems of governments does not mean that the country came from another dimension.

>>2756161

Yeah, because they moved to something more efficient later on in the 70s.

>>2756161


 No.2756164

>>2756147

You're literally arguing this in the OC thread, the least you could have done is make a separate thread for your piss poor arguments.


 No.2756171

>>2756163

>Yeah, because they moved to something more efficient later on in the 70s.

What are you even talking about? You were talking about the famine, were you not? The west rejected the use of payment in gold during the depression and during the famine, that is what I'm saying. They said the soviets could only pay in timber, oil, and/or grain.


 No.2756174

>>2756171

Was thinking you were talking about the GS in general, my bad.

Well yeah, they wanted to put the Soviets in a bad spot, because you know, not paying the debts you had to the countries you owe and all.

But the US had major fuck ups too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_grain_robbery


 No.2756175


 No.2756183

File: b6660c41f21ea00⋯.jpg (76.25 KB, 623x815, 623:815, wikipedia - instead of a b….jpg)

>>2756163

>Only stated by you in your post.

Your first post >>2755804

>knowingly planing to kill people with your decisions

Same exact shit.

Second post

>>Stole more grain from the people to "suppress Ukrainian nationalism"

>>Causing the birth rate to decrease and infant mortality to increase

Again same shit.

>>2756163

>What kind of a stupid logic is that

Collectivization did not stop and continued to be implimented throughout the 30s and the kolkhoz and Sovkhoz system remained throughout the soviet era, in fact when Gorbachev began dismantling that system in the Perestroika the immediate effect was a massive drop in production and starvation to the point where, during the 90s, cannibalism was pretty common. The ukrainians did not reach cannibalism in 1932, despite having a far poorer starting base

>it did

No it really didn't the blockade was removed after 1934 and the USSR finished industrialization and became a superpower that crushed about 75% of the nazi forces in WW-2 and managed to be on par with the USA for over half a century. It only fell because of what Michael Parenti described in Blackshirts and Reds.

"Capitalism is not just an economic system, but an entire social order. Once it takes hold, it is not voted out of existence by electing socialists or communists. They may occupy office but the wealth of the nation, the basic property relations, organic law, financial system, and debt structure, along with the national media, police power, and state institutions have all been fundamentally restructured.” - Michael Parenti, Blackshirts & Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism, City Light Books, 1997, p. 119.

The fall of communist states was a result of the combination a number of strange, conspiratorial events: the swift resignations by communist officials unaware of the protesters’ generalized and ambiguous demands, the right-wing seizure of power in these countries, the unlikely scenario of capitalist sympathizers (Yeltsin and Gorbachev) leading the Soviet Union and therefore the whole socialist world, and the West’s keen maneuvers at quickly absorbing as much of Eastern Europe into it’s own sphere of influence when it got the chance, such as NATO and the EU.

The USA has no intention to create rivals on the world markets - why would USA want to have the same strong economies around it? - it would strip USA of incomes and influence - USA is interested to make all other countries WEAK and to achieve it through any means, including subversion, inciting ethnic unrest, demonizing, economic wars, sanctions etc.

Moreover As B.F. Skinner stated, "And if planned economies, benevolent dictatorships, perfectionistic societies, and other utopian ventures have failed, we must remember that unplanned, undictated, and unperfected cultures have failed too. A failure is not always a mistake; it may simply be the best one can do under the circumstances. The real mistake is to stop trying. Perhaps we cannot now design a successful culture as a whole, but we can design better practices in a piecemeal fashion."

>It was a regime change, that still had the duty to change debts

It was not a regime change, it was a complete erasure of the entire Russian infrastructure. Not to mention that during the intervention the West pillaged more than enough to cover whatever loans the Russian empire had taken out, loans that belonged to the White Russians who were still an active group with money to boot.

> they moved to something more efficient later on in the 70s

Lel

>>2756174

>>2756175

Wow, wikipedia, great source.

>muh debts

irrellevant

>muh gold

Considering how much the USSR poured into trying to help Spanish communists and the republic it was only fair. Not to mention that it denied the fasciist of Franco the gold reserves they needed to actively help the Germans in WW-2 eliminating an axis ally from being capable of fighting properly.


 No.2756189

File: 8f78a51d1df1e0b⋯.jpg (80.85 KB, 598x643, 598:643, Hayek on organization and ….jpg)

File: 318c020f72aa476⋯.jpg (50.54 KB, 753x527, 753:527, liberty dzugashvili.jpg)

File: 3c98f6123e7041c⋯.jpg (37.23 KB, 720x540, 4:3, sacred principle of libert….jpg)

File: bcd753ade672316⋯.png (638.78 KB, 1280x1163, 1280:1163, libertarian logic.png)

>>2756163

>Freedom>Totalitarian regimes


 No.2756195

>>2756183

>people died because of government choices

Nu uh my soviets didn't do nufin

> The ukrainians did not reach cannibalism in 1932

>Survival was a moral as well as a physical struggle. A woman doctor wrote to a friend in >June 1933 that she had not yet become a cannibal, but was "not sure that I shall not be one by the time my letter reaches you." The good people died first. Those who refused to steal or to prostitute themselves died. Those who gave food to others died. Those who refused to eat corpses died. Those who refused to kill their fellow man died. Parents who resisted cannibalism died before their children did.

>Collectivization did not stop and continued to be implimented throughout the 30s and the kolkhoz and Sovkhoz system remained throughout the soviet era

>It was so good you move the goal ever so lower and lower and lower

Perfect system ain't it.

>It was not a regime change, it was a complete erasure of the entire Russian infrastructure.

By, well, all laws, yes, a regime change.

>>2756189

>The Soviet police will beat you if you don't have a haircut that they don't like

>>2756189


 No.2756226

>>2756195

>people died because of government choices

No they died because of a number of factors, including MISTAKES by the government, which is because a government si not an infallible god.

On the topic of debt.

1) All state debts normally disappear after a revolution, because the state that amassed those debts has de facto ceased to exist.

2) The Soviets expressed willingness to pay back at least some of the debts in exchange for a loan to cover the costs of damages inflicted by the imperialist intervention during the Civil War and the granting of diplomatic recognition to the RSFSR. The Entente countries refused.

The Bolsheviks justified their reluctance to repay based (among other things) on the Tsars having secured loans for imperialist purposes (ergo the new anti-imperialist government could hardly be held responsible) and in part on historical precedence, e.g. "Revolutionary France not only tore up the political treaties of the former régime with foreign countries, but also repudiated her national debt. She consented to pay only one-third of that debt, and that from motives of political expediency." (Carr, The Bolshevik Revolution Vol. III, p. 377.)

>Perfect system

Never claimed that

>The Soviet police will beat you if you don't have a haircut that they don't like

never happened

>anecdotal story of 1934 woman who felt like she'd be a cannibal vs actual documented cannibalism in 1921

great evidence.


 No.2756232

>>2756195

>t was so good you move the goal ever so lower and lower and lower

The goal was achieved, keep projecting tho.

After WW-1, a foreign backed civil war and then WW-2 (along side petty sabotage and economic western sanctions) the USSR had received more than its own share of devastation. 20+ million deaths in WW-2, at least 10 million during WW-1 and the civil war. Over 1/5 of its land (a land-mass equal to 1/2 of the entire USA) was burnt to the ground, Millions of buildings, thousands of villages and hundreds of towns, ERASED, along with a large portion of industrial factories and other production. Despite this the USSR rose up and outran the USA in almost every aspect despite the USA being nearly untouched by either war and gaining massively in terms of economics.

The USSR;

Raised life expectancy by 65% [1]

Increased Real Income by 370% [2]

Housing, Medicine, Transport and Insurance accounted for only 15% of family spending, compared to 50% in the USA.

Eliminated Homelessness [3]

Housing was provided based on need, with rent making up 2–3% of the family income, compared to 25–30% in the USA

Eliminated Unemployment [4]

Employment was guaranteed, trade unions had the power to veto firings and recall managers and injured workers had job guarantees and sick pay as well as maternity leave. A minimum of 15 days vacation, annually. (Articles 66–70 of the Soviet Constitution of 1977).

Provided Healthcare was a right [5] and about twice as many doctors as the USA;

"Citizens of the USSR have the right to health protection. This right is ensured by free, qualified medical care provided by state health institutions; by extension of the network of therapeutic and health-building institutions; by the development and improvement of safety and hygiene in industry; by carrying out broad prophylactic measures; by measures to improve the environment; by special care for the health of the rising generation, including prohibition of child labour, excluding the work done by children as part of the school curriculum; and by developing research to prevent and reduce the incidence of disease and ensure citizens a long and active life." (Soviet Constitution, 1936)

Achieved Full Literacy [6]

From a starting point of 38% for men and 12% for women. With School Enrollment raised by 460% [7] And secondary education was a right, funded by the government as long as cumulative grades remained at least at a ‘B’ average. [8]

Subsidized Early Childcare [9]

Fees for pre-school needs did not exceed 2–3% of family income. with 50% of urban and 33% of rural children attending, compared to 10% in the USA over-all.

Lastly they eliminated a Wage gap between Men and Women through equity, provided both sexes opportunities to choose from and grow in. [10] This wage gap was real, unlike the one that modern Social Justice Warriors keep screeching about.


 No.2756233

>>2756232

cont.

"Communism under Stalin has produced the most valiant fighting army in Europe. Communism under Stalin has provided us with examples of patriotism equal to the finest annals of history. Communism under Stalin has won the applause and admiration of all the Western nations. Communism under Stalin has produced the best generals in this war. I was always impressed by Lincoln's answer when Grant was charged with taking too much drink.Persecution of Christianity? Not so. There is no religious persecution. The church doors are open. And there is complete freedom to practice religion, just as there is complete freedom to reject it. Racial persecution? Not at all. Jews live like other men. There are many races in the Soviet Union and not even a color bar. Political purges? Of course. But it is now clear that the men who were shot down would have betrayed Russia to her German enemy." - Opportunity to Win War in 1942; A SECOND FRONT IN EUROPE TO AID RUSSIA By LORD BEAVERBROOK, Britain's Lease-Lend Coordinator in Washington Delivered before the Bureau of Advertising of the American Newspaper Publishers Association, April 23, 1942

Before the Revolution, 76% of the people were illiterate, including 88% of the women. Virtually complete illiteracy prevailed among the indigenous populations of Siberia and Soviet Central Asia. Indeed, more than 40 languages had not been reduced to writing at all. Prior to the revolution, only 290,000 Russians possessed any kind of higher education, whereas the 1959 census reported that more than 13 Million citizens had some higher or specialized secondary education, and more than 45 million people had 7-10 years of education….Raising the literacy rate from 24% to 98.5% within the span of a single generation for more than 200 million people would be an achievement in itself if only one language were involved, to say nothing of the severe problems posed by a multilingual society…To detail the massive character of the Soviet educational effort in Central Asia, the Uzbek Republic, which is the most advanced of the Central Asian areas today, as it was in pre-Revolutionary Russia, provides an apt illustration. Before the Revolution, only 2% of the population was literate. There were no native engineers, doctors, or teachers with a higher education. In short, Central Asia was no different in this respect from most of the colonial dependencies of the European powers, and worse off than many.Today, in the Uzbek Republic alone, there are 32 institutions of higher learning, more than 100 technicums, 50 special technical schools, 12 teachers' colleges, and 1400 kindergartens. Nearly 2,500,000 children attend school, and more than 50% of its teachers have had some higher education…The rate of literacy is over 95%. The Republic before the Revolution possessed no public libraries: today there are nearly 5,000. The number of books printed in the Uzbek language in 1913 was 118,000; today it approaches 19 million. When this record is compared with that of Iran, Afghanistan, the Arab countries, the states of Southeast Asia, or even Turkey, all of which were at a comparable or more advanced level of educational attainment in 1914, the achievement is impressive…” - Vernon V. Aspaturian, Modern Political Systems: Europe


 No.2756234

>>2756233

cont.

The USSR was in desperate condition at the start however it did not resort to the measures used in the West, and still caught up and exceeded it.

"If we are backward and weak, we may be beaten and enslaved. But if we are powerful, people must beware of us. We are 50 to 100 years behind the advanced countries of the West. We must make up this gap in 10 years. Either we do this or they crush us." - Josef Stalin, First Conference of Workers, 1931

And he did it. In time to be ready to defeat Hitler, whom he saw coming. He did it without forcing the country through the worst horrors of the Industrial Revolution in countries that had gone before. We have forgotten them, they did not. One hundred years into the British Industrial Revolution an Act of parliament was passed to reform working conditions for children, the Factory Act. Children, not adults.

These are its provisions:

- no child workers under nine years of age

- employers must have an age certificate for their child workers

- children of 9-13 years to work no more than nine hours a day

- children of 13-18 years to work no more than 12 hours a day

- children are not to work at night

- two hours schooling each day for children

- four factory inspectors appointed to enforce the law

It took many decades, much longer than the period of basic Soviet industrialization, before this became the norm in England, not an aspiration. Children were worked two days straight, and more. In the mines. In the mills. In the fields and factories. Try to imagine what adults had to do.

The first attempt at passing child labour laws in the U.S. was struck down by the Supreme Court. Eventually one was passed in 1938, but basically unenforced, especially in agricultural work. Children in the Soviet Union, from the very beginning, spent their days in school. Family farms, as everywhere, were probably exceptions, but this was the law and it was enforced. There were bureaucratic hoops to jump through to get permission for an exception.

[1] A. Szymanski, On the Uses of Disinformation to Legitimize Revival of the Cold War: Health and the USSR, Science and Society, Winter, 1981.

[2] Corrigan, Philip, Ramsay, Harvie and Sayer, Derek, Bolshevism and the USSR, New Left Review. No. 125. January.February, 1981.

[4] Gregory, Paul R. and Stuart. Robert C., Soviet Economic Structure and Performance, New York: Harper and Row, 1974.

[5] Sivard, Rush Legar, World Military and Social Expenditures. Leeburg, Virginia: WMSE Publications, 1980.

[6] Mickiewicz, Ruth, Handbook of Soviet Social Science Dam New York: Free Press, 1973.

[7] Central Statistical Board of the USSR, The USSR in Figures for 1978, Moscow Statisika Publishers, 1978.

[3,8,9] George. Vic and Manning, Nick, Socialism, Social Welfare and the Soviet Union, London: Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1980.

[10] St. George, George, Our Soviet Sister, New York: Robert B. Luce, 1973


 No.2756235

>>2756234

last

Now let me explain the situation prior in more detail

95% of the people from Eastern Europe (mostly within the Russian empire) were poor peasant farmers who owned no land but paid high rents to the country's landlords who made up the middle/upper class, they were rich, privileged and had no problems withholding grain-stocks if necessary. Russian peasants lived in villages cut off from the rest of the world. The villages were not much more than a collection of mud huts lining the main road where illiterate peasants worked as indentured servants, farming the land to keep some food on the table and as payment of rent to wealthy landlords. When land grants were made originally, they were huge. The grantee came into possession of a huge chunk of land and whatever was on it, including towns and villages. The people became serfs, including the townspeople. The shopkeeper or blacksmith was a serf and paying rent or labour to a master on the same basis as a peasant serf. He was not free to move, or to go out of business, but he could start another, and occasionally a town serf would prosper. The town serfs were emancipated before the peasants; the peasants were freed in 1860, but on terms that worsened their living standards and security. The state bought 80% of their land from their landlord and sold it to them on a long-term mortgage. Since they considered it theirs already, this was no windfall. Around the middle of the 1800s, the British abandoned protectionist import barriers to grain, the Corn Laws, which gave southern Russia access to an export market. This created an opportunity for southern Russia to export, and they began growing wheat. The serfs who had originally worked half the landlord’s holding for him and half for themselves had often paid cash rent instead of labour and worked the whole holding for themselves. Now there was a new incentive in the mix and landlords reversed the terms. Serfs lost the produce from the extra land but still had to work it. Whatever entries into the cash economy they had contrived such as planting cash crops like flax frequently had to be abandoned. Russian peasants had one other alternative to a miserable life of tenant farming. They could move to the city to find work in one of the many miserable factories that were springing up all over Russia, becoming proletariat. By Russian law workers couldn’t be forced to work more than 11 ½ hours in a day (already a huge amount), but most factory bosses ignored this and the police were easily bribed to look the other way. Wages were very low, a few rubles for a months work. The factories were dirty, dark, and dangerous. Workers were given free housing but the conditions of these barracks were so terrible that they made a New York City tenement from 1890 look like a room at the Ritz. Each room was nothing more than a long, empty warehouse where each family stayed in a room divided by a piece of cloth. Each “room” was only large enough to fit a bunk bed that often touched the one next to it, (compare that to communals that at the least had proper rooms and were in themselves created ONLY because Tsarist Russia did not provide any proper houses for the people). The Russian Empire's peak production levels were in 1913 and the top estimate put it at about 1/5 of America's production prior to WW 1 (and even less as soon as the war began). The majority of these factories used outdated and inferior equipment, the top line new Battle-cruisers and Battleships that were to be the future of the Russian navy had almost all of its systems and products made over-seas because the Russian industry had no ability to provide an alternative. At the end of WW 1 and the civil war, Russia's production levels were about 0 because almost all the factories had been destroyed. The conclusion is obvious, the USSR was a drastic improvement over the Russian empire.

http://www.hist.msu.ru/Labour/Babushkin/index.html

https://www.quora.com/What-was-agriculture-like-in-Russia-before-the-Revolution/answer/Cass-Dean


 No.2756387

File: 4d773146d9fe278⋯.png (4.43 MB, 2040x1511, 2040:1511, bourgeois_graveyard.png)

Gulag Ben, up and at it again! Now with even more labels!


 No.2756545

>>2756226

>never happened

When the Beatles turned famous and people started cutting their hair to look like them the government started a crackdown on people who "Westernized" themselves. And yeah, the Soviets were afraid of a popular band. There's a whole documentary about the youth uprisings who wanted to listen to popular songs, wear popular brands, have popular bands play there but no, only state sponsored songs are allowed.

>No they died because of a number of factors, including MISTAKES by the government, which is because a government si not an infallible god.

So yeah, they died by Soviet incompetence. They would rather use the food they had to export it, rather than feed the Ukrainians. As I've said earlier, they shipped off food to West Germany to make a profit instead of handing it over to their own people, and Ukraine was hit way harder than Russia itself, that could just be see in the Natural change per 1k, in Russia that was -18.8 while in Ukraine it was -47.4.

Also, nice copy pastas.

>>2756387

<>>2756387

(NO COCKHOLES ALLOWED BYE BYE COCKHOLE)

 No.2756692

>>2756545

>this projection

Keep projecting retard

> the government started a crackdown on people who "Westernized" themselves.

Nope, that wasn't it at all, they cracked down on the black-market of western items sold illegally. Nothing to do with haircuts.

>oviets were afraid of a popular band

LOL what, the Soviets didn't ban the Beatles, they banned Rock songs that were vulgar. Not to mention that the USSR and warsaw pact had its own popular bands and musicians

> a whole documentary about the youth uprisings who wanted to listen to popular songs, wear popular brands, have popular bands play there but no, only state sponsored songs are allowed.

1) name it

2) so what there are documentaries about how the holocaust wasn't real, moron.

>They would rather use the food they had to export it

ignoring numbers again

>copy pastas. 90% of what I posted was something I already wrote, the only thing I didn't write was the stuff on debt, that stuff was from /marx/ who were helpful enough to provide an exact set of information, as I did not have any at hand at the time, ignoramus.


 No.2756834

File: fcfca81da5cb061⋯.jpg (905.75 KB, 1960x904, 245:113, hib.jpg)

>>2756692

>ignoring numbers again

xD

>exports 1.8 tons of food

>starve your population out and export it to foreign markets instead of feeding it

>result in millions of deaths but its ok because they rejected foreign aid and gave them a small number of reserves

KEYPOINT: They could have fed 5 million people with 1.8 tons of food they had but they chose to export it.

You're so mad you forgot to think

>communism is g-great guise, y-you just n-n-need to try it again

> name it

"How the Beatles Rocked the Kremlin, 2009 documentary by BBC

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.2756944

>>2756834

>They could have fed 5 million people with 1.8 tons of food

Excuse you?


 No.2756950

>>2756944

see the last line in

>>2755988


 No.2757030

File: 9d3a17b7c0c2102⋯.jpg (207.8 KB, 405x597, 135:199, 2LL7VCJ copy.jpg)

have I done well


 No.2757037

File: c6f1e670fd312ce⋯.jpg (76.85 KB, 431x751, 431:751, communismequalsXD.jpg)

>>2757030

>it exists and therefor its mine

>Waah waah why does someone own things

>I want it because I need it therefor it belongs to me


 No.2757041

File: 1f4b7b9beca930a⋯.png (101.93 KB, 1278x2407, 1278:2407, Poland leech.png)

File: d0c2f90865a7e7a⋯.png (744.18 KB, 1178x1080, 589:540, poland on WW 2 crimes.png)

File: dfcfef71fc80eee⋯.jpg (283.61 KB, 1268x1600, 317:400, anti capitalist meme.jpg)

File: 69a34ad842ddd39⋯.jpg (78.06 KB, 640x640, 1:1, can't fail without a goal.jpg)

>>2756834

>"How the Beatles Rocked the Kremlin, 2009 documentary by BBC

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA wow that trash is your evidence? LOL, the fact that it't a BBC doc about Russia is a red flag.

>exports 1.8 tons of food

And imports almost as much

>more drivel

>rejected foreign aid

There was no foreign aid, at all. They didn't reject it, they refused to let themselves become

>HIV

more people in the USA have HIV

>Poland

you mean the same Poland that got its ass beat again and again? seems like the only place Poland can be great is either as part of the Warsaw Pact or in fiction.

>They could have fed 5 million people with 1.8 tons of food they had but they chose to export it.

Except they imported food and lowered quotas and did a shit ton of relief efforts.

>so mad forgot to think

says the guy repeating the same posts and literally ignoring stated evidence contradicting their points while using ONLy biased sources, and ignoring sources that counter them including Ukrainian ones.

It's interesting how you smear the USSR for 1 crisis when the USA literally had the same thing happen; 7 million estimated deaths due to American Famine during Great Depression except that unlike the USSR, they did't have a blockade on them, and had an established economy. Yet the US government is not blamed

http://www.pravdareport.com/world/americas/19-05-2008/105255-famine-0/

https://www.rt.com/usa/interview-with-boris-borisov/

https://www.infowars.com/researcher-famine-killed-7-million-in-us-during-great-depression/


 No.2757068

File: 660d8570a6c80e8⋯.png (398.7 KB, 621x708, 207:236, a social revolution must b….png)

>>2757041

*they refused to let themselves become vassals of the West. Sorry that they were thinking about trying to promote communism and prevent it from being crushed. Casualties are not exactly unexpected in a revolution and in the prevention of counter-revolutions. The fact that these things occurred is because reality is such that measures must be taken, you, try and balance imports and exports to prevent economic collapse and thus maintain the future for hundreds of millions of people, OR let the future go to naught because in the futile attempt to save each and every individual during a time of hardship for EVERYONE is ridiculous.


 No.2757077

File: 64198f72ce72cbb⋯.png (678.2 KB, 1533x1016, 1533:1016, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2756834

>M-muh exports

Tauger:

"The 1932 grain procurement quota, and the amount of grain actually collected, were both much smaller than those of any other year in the 1930s. The Central Committee lowered the planned procurement quota in a 6 May 1932 decree, which also permitted kolkhoz and peasant trade in grain at free market prices. To encourage increase production, this decree reduced grain procurement quotas for kolkhozy and edinolichniki from the 1931 quota of 22.4 million tons to 18.1 million tons; in partial compensation it raised the sovkhoz quota from 1.7 million tons to 2.5 million tons, for a total procurement quota of 20.6 million tons. Since the preliminary plan composed by the trade commissariat in December 1931 had set grain procurements at 29.5 million tons, the 6 MAY law actually reduced the procurement plan 30 percent. Subsequent decrees also reduced procurement quotas for most other agricultural products.

These decisions were a major policy shift from the preceeding years' attempt to eliminate market forces from the Soviet economy. After the May 1932 decree, Soviet leaders were optimistic that trade by kolkhozy and individual peasants would become as important for urban food supplies as procurements."

"They did try to alleviate the famine. A 25 February 1933 Central Committee decree allotted seed loans of 320,000 tons to Ukraine and 240,000 tons to the northern Caucasus, Seed loans were also made to the Lower Volga and may have been made to other regions as well. Kul'chyts'kyy cites Ukrainian party archives showing that total aid to Ukraine by April 1933 actually exceeded 560,000 tons, including more than 80,000 tons of food. Aid to Ukraine alone was 60 percent greater than the amount exported during the same period. Total aid to famine regions was more than double exports for the first half of 1933. It appeas to have been another consequence of the low 1932 harvest that more aid was not provided: After the low 1931, and 1934, and 1936 harvests procured grain was transferred back to peasants at the expense of exports."

"The harvest decline also decreased the regime's reserves of grain export. This drop in reserves began with the dought-reduced 1931 harvest and subsequent procurements, which procured grain to those areas in 1932. The low 1931 harvest and reallocations of grain to famine areas forced the regime to curtain grain exports from 5.2 million tons in 1931 to 1.73 million in 1932; they declined to 1.68 million in 1933. Grain exported in 1932 and 1933 could have fed many people and reduced the famine: The 354,000 tons exported in the first half of 1933, for example, could have provided nearly 2 million people with daily rations of 1 kilogram for six months. Yet these exports were less than half of the 750,000 tons exported in the first half of 1932. How Soviet leaders calculated the relative costs of lower exports and lower domestic food supplies remains uncertain, but available evidence indicates that further reductions or cessation of Soviet exports could have had serious consequences. Grain prices fell in world markets and turned the terms of trade against the Soviet Union in the early 1930s, its indebtedness rose and its potential ability to pay declined, causing western bankers and officials to consider seizure of Soviet property abroad and denial of future credits in case of Soviet default. Failure to export thus would have threatened the fulfillment of its industrialization plans and, according to some observers, the stability of the regime."

http://www.as.wvu.edu/history/Faculty/Tauger/Tauger,%20%27The%201932%20Harvest%20and%20the%20Famine%20of%201933,%20SR%2091.pdf

Also

>>2757041

>the same thing happen in the USA

In the USA this was prettily labelled 'defarming' but the tyrant is still Stalin.

Between 1928-1934 in the USA, over 80% of farming lands were destroyed, 7 million people in agricultural states died of hunger. Can this be called de-Kulakization and Holodomor (many farmers were thrown off their lands by banks)


 No.2757089

>>2757037

>Castro has 900 million

This myth is baseless and believed by morons.

>Kill more communists than Pinochet

Lel, counter-revolutionaries are now communists.

>Che was racist and homophobic

False, Che's anti-negro statements are from his diary when he was an edgy right-wing teenager (just like /pol/), he later changed his views and stated as much. He was not against gay people he was against idpol faggotry.

>hipsters are socialist

lel.

try harder /pol/


 No.2757090

File: e9f02eb029002f8⋯.png (104 KB, 600x600, 1:1, alunya thumbs up.png)

>>2757030

Yep. I'd make it neater in formating of the text but otherwise it's spot on.


 No.2757105

>>2757041

>And imports almost as much

>not displaying the numbers

>using much as a term to describe numerical data

>170k+ later on 325 tons do not equal anything near 1.8m

>still ignoring the fact that they shipped off 1.8m tons of food that could have been used to help the people

>There was no foreign aid, at all.

Yeah, because the state has underplayed the famine and denying any form of foreign aid, because they loved their people so much.

>more people in the USA have HIV

Per capita, not really, and you know, the US has a bigger population size.

>54 Russia 5.89 per 1,000 people

>69 United States 3.27 per 1,000 people

>says the guy repeating the same posts and literally ignoring stated evidence contradicting their points while using ONLy biased sources, and ignoring sources that counter them including Ukrainian ones.

>posting comments from biased scholars, self proclaimed Staljinists

Check

Example

Grover Furr

>post opinions on academics with bad methodologies

Check

Example

Tauger

"Historian James Mace wrote that Tauger's argument "is not taken seriously by either Russians or Ukrainians who have studied the topic." David Marples, professor of history at the University of Alberta, was critical of Tauger's claims, stating: "Dr. Tauger and other scholars fail to distinguish between shortages, droughts and outright famine. There is no such thing as a 'natural' famine, no matter the size of the harvest. A famine requires some form of state or human input." Tauger's evidence, methodologies and conclusions in regard to the famine were criticized by Robert Davies and Stephen Wheatcroft in their book The Years of Hunger: Soviet Agriculture, 1931–33, published in 2004."

>Posting moonrunes.ru

Check

Example, above

Oh golly gee

>7 million estimated deaths due to American Famine during Great Depression except that unlike the USSR

>Seven and a half million people does not mean the number of particular victims of the famine, but a general demographic loss, or the difference between the supposed population on the date of the census that was due to be held in 1940 and the factual number of people.

>BTFO'd by your own source

>infowars

>Pravda (an old propaganda outlet)

>rt (seriously)

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

>1930 Census: 122,775,046 population

Seven million missing where?

>1940 Census: 132,164,569 population.

>“Population health did not decline and indeed generally improved during the 4 years of the Great Depression, 1930–1933, with mortality decreasing for almost all ages, and life expectancy increasing by several years in males, females, whites, and nonwhites. For most age groups, mortality tended to peak during years of strong economic expansion (such as 1923, 1926, 1929, and 1936–1937). In contrast, the recessions of 1921, 1930–1933, and 1938 coincided with declines in mortality and gains in life expectancy. The only exception was suicide mortality which increased during the Great Depression, but accounted for less than 2% of deaths. “

Source:

https://www.pnas.org/content/106/41/17290.full

>This myth is baseless and believed by morons.

Forbes estimate, which is, much better than you.

>Lel, counter-revolutionaries are now communists.

>Everyone Staljin killed deserved to die

>False, Che's anti-negro statements are from his diary when he was an edgy right-wing teenager (

>Nu-uh, it's fake because he wrote those statements when he was younger

top lel

>>2757041

>False, Che's anti-negro statements are from his diary when he was an edgy right-wing teenager (

(COCKHOLES TO THE ZOOS)

 No.2757107

File: 713bb26f1474736⋯.png (158.23 KB, 701x632, 701:632, iYiFi.png)

>>2757105

Forgot to add the picture

>MUH 7 MILLION


 No.2757152


 No.2757161

>>2757105

>>not displaying the numbers

already did.

>170k+ later on 325 tons do not equal anything near 1.8m

Wow you're a piece of work. already covered this horse-shit before, here is more on it: >>2757077

>because the state has underplayed the famine

False, I already posted numerous quotes citing the fact that Soviet leadership was not immediately aware of the issues until things were already rolling.

>denying any form of foreign aid

NO AID WAS OFFERED.

>they loved their people so much

Let's see, get food and be a slave of Western capitalists for the rest of your life and your children's lives, or fight and survive to rise up and oppose them… HMMMMM?

>the US has a bigger population size.

The USSR and USA had a comparable population size in 1990. During that time HIV was far more prevalent in the USA, this became more problematic after the USSR fell and capitalism came, and all the degenerate shit that came with it.

>posting comments from biased scholars

Tauger is not biased nor Wheatcroft, and I dare you to prove that Ukrainian Nationalists are somehow pro-communist. Your Mace quote was not an argument just a nit-pick on numbers being assigned to different things, not that the numbers were wrong. Furr not withstanding, most of my dozen+ sources are not biased. All of yours are either Ukrainian nationalist drivel or MI-6 drivel.

> moonrunes

Google translate, not to mention that the site has primary sourcing and is actually an argument. Your argument is nothing more than Ad hominum.

>BTFO'd by your own source

No not really, I stated that the USA did similar things and that 7 million people died, despite this no-one is accusing the USA of intentionally murdering them. That was my argument.

>RT, Pravda, Infowars

Not an argument, you're attacking the source, not the content, which uses primary sources, twat.

>Seven million missing where?

10 years is plenty of time for birth rates to rise again. the famine lasted 3 years AT MOST, and the numbers lost were recovered quickly and over-shot by a large margin in the USSR, the same can be assumed in the USA.

>Forbes estimate

Forbes is a capitalist shill source caught lying numerous time.

>it's fake

Never said that twat

>everyone stalin killed

<muh gorillions

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-there-is-no-evidence-at-all-that-Stalin-killed-60-million/answer/Chuck-Garen

>pnas

And? That's irrelevant. the USA was an established industrial power, the USSR was not, it was recovering from devastating WW1 and Intervention and was rapidly industrializing, yet despite that, unlike the USA:

>>2756232

>>2756233

>>2756234

>>2756235

Something you conveniently ignored, bitch.


 No.2757178

File: 63e79a25222c3ec⋯.png (491.82 KB, 1600x2951, 1600:2951, ClipboardImage.png)

File: f405405dd0eb4eb⋯.png (2.87 MB, 2000x1320, 50:33, ClipboardImage.png)

File: e2a9af030192a1a⋯.png (6.81 MB, 2267x8334, 2267:8334, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 3574728dda266db⋯.png (1.12 MB, 800x2449, 800:2449, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2757105

Here, a simplified, infograph post, for your illiterate arse.


 No.2757193

File: 38447864f3687ca⋯.jpg (52.17 KB, 451x677, 451:677, nuuh.jpg)

>>2757178

>muh jpgs

top lel

Wanna check if your grandpa is on the list?


 No.2757201

>>2757161

>NO AID WAS OFFERED

>Ukrainian Canadian farmers offered to send aid to help the starving victims of the Holodomor, but this assistance was refused by Soviet authorities, said the keynote speaker at the Holodomor commemoration organized by the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, Edmonton Branchat City Hall, Nov. 23.

>“During 1932-1933 more pressure from the West could certainly have been applied on the Soviet regime on the matter of the famine. A major problem, though, was that the Soviet regime was denying that there was a famine,” said Dr. Serge Cipko, Coordinator of the Ukrainian Diaspora Studies Initiative at the Kule Ukrainian Canadian Studies Centre, Canadian Institute of Ukrainian Studies at the University of Alberta.

Source:

http://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/cius-sites/ukrcan/Diaspora/Research/2013-12-31_USSRrefusedCanadianaid.pdf

>In the Soviet Union, authorities all but banned discussion of the famine, and Ukrainian historian Stanislav Kulchytsky stated the Soviet government ordered him to falsify his findings and depict the famine as an unavoidable natural disaster, to absolve the Communist Party and uphold the legacy of Stalin

Source:

Levy, Clifford (15 March 2009). "A New View of a Famine That Killed Millions"


 No.2757205

File: 9cfedf0b13ac8dc⋯.jpg (25.07 KB, 450x450, 1:1, ты охуел.jpg)

>>2757191

>I was refering to Furr

I know, and I mentioned specifically that MOST of my sources are unbiased. which is why your harping on Furr is pointless as his stuff makes up ZERO of my anti-holodomor argument and only is part of my mini-post on Katyn, twat.

>You don't even know how to read

The pot calling the kettle black

>No, they didn't.

They did, based on the same methodology used to calculate your Ukrainian famine numbers. Your chart ONLY references CITIES, when most people did not live in cities at the time.

>Accusing the other side of using and ad hom, while using an ad hom

1) Still haven't adressed the fact that you're still using it.

2) That wasn't ad hominum, that's pointing out facts. Your sources are ukrainian nationalists and anti-communists like Mace.

>literally unsupported by data

sure bud, sure

>we can see a massive drop in Ukrainian birth rates

false equivalency

>stay mad

pot calling the kettle black

> enjoy your bubble of ignorance

Man you really are an iron pot, that's how thick you are

>>2757193

>jpgs

No refutation. It's a summary because you don't read written sources.

>Image

And what about it? the fuck is that supposed to prove? that people were arrested? no-one denies that, doesn't make them wrong

>I'll be off now

Good, stay out, ignoramus, you've brought nothing new and only proven once more that /pol/ dogmatism is thicker and denser than the Earth's crust


 No.2757212

>>2757201

>Ukrainian Canadian farmers offered to send aid to help the starving victims of the Holodomor, but this assistance was refused by Soviet authorities, said the keynote speaker at the Holodomor commemoration organized by the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, Edmonton Branchat City Hall, Nov. 23.

The Ukrainian Canadian COngress is made up of people descended from the OUN UPA, saved by the CIA from being executed for being nazi collaborationists whose crimes were comparable to those of groups like Dirlewanger, a fact that they were aware of when they rescued them. Their words are unreliable and anecdotal

>authorities all but banned discussion of the famine

False.

>Stanislav Kulchytsky

An obscure ukrainian nationalist who heroizes Stepan Bandera, (calling him a hero) and who like the rest of your posts is both biased and has no concrete evidence.

>Source

from a New York Times article… Wow it's like you're trying to prove that you're retarded.

Literally every single one of your sources has been covered either in my posts or my sources, which you have ignored wholly.

Here is 1 of those sources, which covers literally the entire thing: https://www.garethjones.org/tottlefraud.pdf

ANd that's ignoring the rest of them yet you keep repeating your Mace quote and out-of-context stats along with Ukie nationalist drivel, like a broken record.


 No.2757215

>>2757105

>The Years of Hunger: Soviet Agriculture

You understand the conclusion they come to in this book is that the famine was not created on purpose and that the Soviets did not intentionally starve the Ukrainians, right? They do argue mismanagement during the start of the crisis, yes, but that of overestimation by the Soviets in regards to harvest and, most importantly, confusion in regards to what to do in response to the natural disasters and agricultural disruption which had drastically lowered those harvests and forced them into rationing the now insufficient quantities to those groups which were deemed absolutely necessary for the economy to run and society to function.

In regards to the natural disaster which caused this all spiral downward, it was unusual environmental conditions in 1932 (quoting here) "in which extremely wet and humid weather gave rise to severe plant disease infestations, especially rust. Ukraine had double or triple the normal rainfall in 1932. Both the weather conditions and the rust spread from Eastern Europe, as plant pathologists at the time documented. Soviet plant pathologists in particular estimated that rust and other fungal diseases reduced the potential harvest in 1932 by almost nine million tons, which is the largest documented harvest loss from any single cause in Soviet history." You can read about this, I can post the pdf's if you want.

Honestly, why is nobody addressing the main source he's using? It doesn't argue what he thinks it does.


 No.2757220

>>2757215

>why is nobody addressing the main source he's using

His main source is Ukrainian nationalist stuff actually, he brought up Mace later.

I had sources on Mace's bullshit but my old laptop crashed last year so I lost most of my sources.

(PS do not bump thread until retard leaves)


 No.2757224

File: 4fe11cc53e18469⋯.jpg (25.48 KB, 348x417, 116:139, 7831bbc3ceba258925f669d94b….jpg)

>>2756183

I saw that pic somewhere.

>The ukrainians did not reach cannibalism in 1932

Reach, but only coz culaks resist collectivization and literally hoard and rot groin and spread anti soviet propaganda.

>Resistance to collectivization (including sabotage)

You cant imagine how strong classcuck ideas in Ukraine.

>>2756226

>On the topic of debt.

In fact almost all Russian empire debts leak into bourgeois pockets. Why soviet peoples shod pay that debts?

>from a New York Times article

Pic

Conclusion : Its a pity but Soros propaganda work wery well in Ukraine.


 No.2757226

File: 7eba8a9bc341790⋯.png (3.42 KB, 225x225, 1:1, Civiele.png)

Ignore the ukronazi and post OC as usual.


 No.2757230

>>2757215 (me)

To add to this, not only does The Years of Hunger not argue that the famine was intentional or that the soviets intentionally starved the Ukrainians, but none of the works by those who attempted to take an unbiased look at the famine argue this either. At the very worst the information shows panic and confusion, not intentional starvation.

>>2757221

>Conquest

By posting this you deny yourself the right to call anyone's sources biased. Conquest is famously biased and has been know to fudge numbers and information especially in regards to military doctrine, kill counts, and total force numbers. If using Furr is unacceptable, using Conquest is admitting complete ignorance of history. No established historian views his as reputable.

>Stephen Bandera

Come on now, this is blatantly poor sourcing. You're sourcing a literal Ukrainian nationalist you has no evidence for his accusations on his part.


 No.2757233

File: 62144d368c73407⋯.jpg (295.39 KB, 1280x904, 160:113, 1515416476061.jpg)

>>2757226

>don't burst my b-bubble n-nazi

>DELETS MY POST

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>While the Soviet government admitted that some peasantry died, it also sought to launch a disinformation campaign, in February 1983, to blame drought. The head of the directorate for relations with foreign countries for the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU), A. Merkulov, charged Leonid Kravchuk, the chief ideologue for the Communist Party in Ukraine, with finding rainfall evidence for the Great famine. This new evidence was to be sent to the Novosti press centers in the U.S. and Canada, denouncing the "antidemocratic base of the Ukrainian bourgeois Nationalists, the collaboration of the Banderists and the Hitlerite Fascists during the Second World War." Kravchuk's inquiry into the rainfalls for the 1932-1933 period found that they were within normal parameters. Nevertheless, the official position regarding drought did not change.

>MUH DROUGHTS

>MUH NO AID

>Foreign relief rejected by the State. Respectively 176,200 and 325,000 tons of grains provided by the State as food and seed aids between February and July 1933.

>Export 1.8 million, give them half

What a deal.

Source: Davies, Robert W.; Wheatcroft, Stephen G. (2010). The Years of Hunger: Soviet Agriculture 1931–1933.

>>2757230

>You're sourcing a literal Ukrainian nationalist

Nu uh, don't use Ukrainian sources, use Official Soviet statements that were sugar coated under heavy damage control

Sure thing fam


 No.2757236

File: 33d7986882a131d⋯.jpg (141.7 KB, 481x500, 481:500, hahaha.jpg)

>>2757233

>use Official Soviet statements that were sugar coated under heavy damage control

Nope not what I said.

>don't burst bubble

Look who's talking

>repeating same quote despite being debunked by over a dozen posts with sources and plenty of stats.

>source

cherrypick

/pol/ confirmed for brainlets yet again.


 No.2757240

File: 0b0753c185f6056⋯.jpg (63 KB, 860x484, 215:121, per-1.jpg)

Resolution of the SNK of the USSR of 1933 "On the resettlement to Ukraine of 21,000 families of collective farmers"


 No.2757242

>>2757240

Yes and?


 No.2757243

just interesting


 No.2757250

>>2757233

>Again using Years of Hunger as a source for proving intentional starvation

Can you actually read it before attempting to source it?

>use Official Soviet statements that were sugar coated under heavy damage control

I'm unironically using The Years of Hunger, the same source you're quoting. Actually read it.


 No.2757261

can i somehow improve visibility here? It's really hard to read but conversation is interesting


 No.2757269

>>2757248

>>2757255

See >>2757077

moron


 No.2757270

File: 7c4c7395c217b66⋯.pdf (5.17 MB, The-Years-of-Hunger-Soviet….pdf)

>>2757248

>Export 1.8 m tons of food that could have been used to feed them, five million people for one year

We explained the gold blockade, to which you said they should pay back their debts regardless, even if its with resources. So what is it? What should they do? They also need to industrialize, something doubly proven true by the events that occurred in the years that followed. In addition, by the actions taken no famine ever occurred again. You also assume they did not send relief, which they did when information actually was revived by the Bureau https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMBJ_nQ4sTA.

Again, you're argument is intentional starvation, something The Years of Hunger, which is goes into depth in its research and is far from Pro-Soviet, refutes. Here is the pdf if you haven't read it.


 No.2757272

>>2757270

*was received by the Bureau


 No.2757277

File: 9cfc2eaca55bd39⋯.png (54.49 KB, 500x521, 500:521, fucking dumb as a jellyfis….png)

>>2757248

>Note the abuses of the Soviets towards the people

anecdotes by ukrainian nationalists

>prove wrong in detail

Spamming the same quote and ukrainian nationalist anecdotes is not detail. Not to mention cherry-picked statistics and contextless statements that show your ignorance, even of your own sources

I'm sorry I called you an ignoramus, that's an insult to the ignoramuses of the world to be associated with a dense twat like you.


 No.2757295

File: f3ec07023947428⋯.jpg (19.14 KB, 336x355, 336:355, banana.jpg)

>>2757250

"Our study of the famine has led us to very different conclusions from

Dr Conquest’s. He holds that Stalin ‘wanted a famine’,142 that ‘the

Soviets did not want the famine to be coped with successfully’,143 and

that the Ukrainian famine was ‘deliberately inflicted for its own

sake’.144 This leads him to the sweeping conclusion: ‘The main lesson

seems to be that the Communist ideology provided the motivation for

an unprecedented massacre of men, women and children.’145

We do not at all absolve Stalin from responsibility for the famine.

His policies towards the peasants were ruthless and brutal. But the

story which has emerged in this book is of a Soviet leadership which

was struggling with a famine crisis which had been caused partly by

their wrongheaded policies, but was unexpected and undesirable. The

background to the famine is not simply that Soviet agricultural policies

were derived from Bolshevik ideology, though ideology played its

part. They were also shaped by the Russian pre-revolutionary past,

the experiences of the civil war, the international situation, the intransigeant

circumstances of geography and the weather, and the modus

operandi of the Soviet system as it was established under Stalin. They

were formulated by men with little formal education and limited

knowledge of agriculture. Above all, they were a consequence of the

decision to industrialise this peasant country at breakneck speed."

TBH I agree with this, but still the objective point stands, they traded grain for money, instead of giving it to their own population. Also, in the video tell OP to talk about them bragging about sending grain to Hamburg while Ukrainian villagers starved.

>>2757270

Or you could, you know, accept that it was a regime change and negotiate on how to pay back the debt like a normal country?

>>2757277

>anecdotes by ukrainian nationalists

>Snyder and Ellman

Sure thing, do you have anything to prove them wrong or is anything that does not fit your world view AN EBIL NAZI


 No.2757313

>>2757295

>but still the objective point stands, they traded grain for money, instead of giving it to their own population.

They traded grain for farming and industrial equipment mostly. Straight money transactions were usually not done.

>Or you could, you know, accept that it was a regime change and negotiate on how to pay back the debt like a normal country?

But the point is that the western counties did not accept them as legitimate despite negotiations. That's the whole point of the gold blockade. Despite having the gold to pay the western countries, nearly every Western country refused to accept the gold chevonetz, primarily because it would legitimize the USSR internationally, instead demanding grain, oil, and/or timber (usually a mix of all three). They literally would not accept anything else.


 No.2757314

>>2757295

>Snyder and Ellman

Unsourced anecdotes by them as well, not to mention that Snyder was debunked. dismissed.

>the objective point stands, they traded grain for money, instead of giving it to their own population

They did, but the famine was not the biggest problem at the time, and if they failed to export and buy necessary stuff the country would collapse, the famine would grow into the 10s of millions in casualties, the people would be vassals to western imperialists and all that would be achieved would be MAYBE the feeding of a few million people in the short run, at the cost of dooming them ALL in the long run. That's what life is about, making hard choices. Hindsight is 20/20

>hem bragging about sending grain to Hamburg while Ukrainian villagers starved.

Didn't happen.

>accept that it was a regime change and negotiate on how to pay back the debt like a normal country?

I repeat

1) All state debts normally disappear after a revolution, because the state that amassed those debts has de facto ceased to exist.

2) The Soviets expressed willingness to pay back at least some of the debts in exchange for a loan to cover the costs of damages inflicted by the imperialist intervention during the Civil War and the granting of diplomatic recognition to the RSFSR. The Entente countries refused.

The Bolsheviks justified their reluctance to repay based (among other things) on the Tsars having secured loans for imperialist purposes (ergo the new anti-imperialist government could hardly be held responsible) and in part on historical precedence, e.g. "Revolutionary France not only tore up the political treaties of the former régime with foreign countries, but also repudiated her national debt. She consented to pay only one-third of that debt, and that from motives of political expediency." (Carr, The Bolshevik Revolution Vol. III, p. 377.)

>do you have anything to prove them wrong

Yes, the sources I posted and which you did not read. Even Furr's BLood Lies is a source that ought to be read because no-one has actually debunked that book, only complained about biases, factually it blows Snyder's trash out of the water.


 No.2757337

>>2757330

>lost the elections and took power

Wow you're ignorant, I'm not going to waste re-inventing the wheel, here, read:

Despite Kerensky being a member of the Social Revolutionary party, traditionally based on the peasants, they did not enact a single word of the SR’s policy on land reform. They could not even convene a constituent assembly to write a democratic constitution, for fear not being able to control such a body. Step-by-step, mass support was moving to the Bolsheviks who called for a break with capitalism and all power to the Soviets.

The ruling class, the landlords and capitalists, could no longer rely on parliamentary maneuvers to maintain their power. All their parties had been rejected by the people. They instead moved to the methods of a fascist coup led by General Kornilov in August of 1917. Kornilov was not just going to massacre the Soviet workers, he would also have broken up the Provisional Government. Kerensky, rightfully fearing for his own head, released Bolshevik prisoners who in turn defeated Kornilov’s coup by mobilising the Petrograd workers and conducting agitation amongst the troops.

From that point onwards the ‘liberal, reformist’ Provisional Government was suspended in mid-air. The mass of workers and peasants looked to the Soviets to solve their problems. The bosses, landowners, and monarchists looked to Kornilovite reaction to teach the people a bloody lesson for being so impudent. The ‘middle-road’ had been tried and rejected by all sides. The only options were socialism or fascism.

But didn’t the Bolsheviks lose the vote for the constituent assembly? It is true that after almost a year of the liberals and reformists refusing to call the constituent assembly that it was actually the Bolshevik-led Soviets that organized this election. The results were 41 percent for the SRs, 24 percent Bolshevik, under-5 percent Kadet, and 3 percent Menshevik. It is notable to compare the vote of the Bolsheviks with the Kadets, the party siding with Kornilov’s generals and the White reaction. The Bolsheviks also gained decisive majorities in the urban centres and two-thirds of the vote amongst the soldiers of the western front.

Unfortunately, the split between the left-SRs, who supported Soviet power, and the right SRs had not been formalized at the time of the assembly elections. Therefore, the right SRs were significantly overrepresented in the party lists and the peasants were not given a genuine choice. The countryside voted SR while all the active sectors of society had moved far past the stage of arms-length parliamentarianism as seen in the imperialist countries. The Soviet system, where elections are direct, delegates are recallable, and there is no division between legislative and executive (i.e., every delegate has a job to do), is far more democratic than the parliamentary system where unaccountable MPs abandon their constituents for years at a time while raking in huge salaries.

When the constituent assembly met on 18 January 1918 it was a sickly hybrid anomaly. The reformists attempted to organize a demonstration in support but few attended. Delegates brought candles and sandwiches in case the power was cut off. At 4am the head of the guard, an anarchist, said, “The guard is tired. I propose that you close the meeting and let everybody go home”. And that was the end of the assembly that nobody was willing to fight for. It was not democratic enough for the workers, who looked to soviet democracy, and too democratic for the capitalist generals, who were preparing to launch the civil war to re-install some form of autocracy.


 No.2757359

>>2757330

>What exactly did you debunk, except the imaginary stuff in your head?

I'd ask you that.

>Ellman

I was talking more specifically about Furr. Ellman's sources are more researched than Snyders but her has an anti-soviet bias, Furr a pro-soviet one. Furr however also provides context that Ellman does not. And Snyder is just trash, you'd do better citing fucking Conquest.

>Ellman didn't.

HAHAHAHA, yep, sure.

>1.8 sold, taken from from Ukraine that could have been used to feed them

And imported plenty plus the use of reserve stocks and other measures see >>2757077

and https://www.garethjones.org/tottlefraud.pdf

>Dr. Bohdan Krawchenko

Another nationalist fuckhead using statistics and claiming they bragged about it with no evidence. Good job.

Also on the topic of what those OUN UPA faggots did:

>Sexual practises

https://journals.openedition.org/pipss/4214

>mass murder

http://zbrodniawolynska.pl/ftp/zbrodnia_wolynska/The-July-1943-genocidal-operations-of-the-OUN-UPA-in-Volhynia.pdf

Photos: https://cont.ws/@sam8807/287556

https://oun-b.livejournal.com/14305.html

>nazi collaboration and support

http://istmat.info/node/39194 (The memorandum of the OUNb collaboration with the Nazis)

>modern day followers committing war-crimes and justifying it as a war against the Zhids (jews).

https://www.osce.org/pc/233896?download=true


 No.2757368

File: 08d8effe5c29e30⋯.png (Spoiler Image, 350.88 KB, 650x422, 325:211, ClipboardImage.png)

File: a1379903395b387⋯.png (Spoiler Image, 227.4 KB, 650x460, 65:46, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 7a9fa9f3ff950e6⋯.png (Spoiler Image, 370.83 KB, 650x449, 650:449, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2757359

>>2757330

I forget, you won't visit any of those sites because they would instantly destroy your argument, so here, view these photos. The people whose arguments you are using, are descended from and heroize the people who did this:

One of them, Mykola Lebed was characterized as "a well-known sadist and collaborator of the Germans" by the CIA, according to Swedish-American historian Dr. Per Anders Rudling in his book "The OUN, the UPA and the Holocaust: A Study in the Manufacturing of Historical Myths." However, this fact didn't prevented the CIA from recruiting the former Nazi collaborator and let him reside in Queens, New York, living on the money of US tax-payers.


 No.2757385

>>2757360

>Little bit too early

Wow, you are a hypocrite. First you are too obtuse to recognize the contextual information of statistics, now you're being linguistically pedantic.

The description of fascist is befitting Kornilov as his ideology and reactionary behavior is no different to the actions of fascists like Mussolini a decade later.

> justifying an illegal seizure of power

Justify the illegal seizure of power by the people who would form the USA... you're back to being obtuse.

Also, the illegal seizure was conducted by Kerensky who's party overthrew the Tsar and promised the peasants to end the war and help. They failed to do anything however, instead happy to double-deal and carve the country apart as it collapsed, until the people were fed up and supported the Bolsheviks, routing out the liberals and their collapsed government. Also almost nobody died in the seizure of the Winter Palace that swept up the remnants of the Provisional Government during the October Revolution, as opposed to the 1,500+ people who died during the liberal February revolution.


 No.2757387

>>2757376

1) The Ural Soviet made this decision independently, and they executed them for treason to the Russian nation, which is true. The actions of the Tsar kept Russia in a semi-feudal state of abject poverty, all while living in leisure.

> piles of bodies that the Soviets left behind

Except the soviets never heroized that, and most people executed by the soviets were tried criminals or took part in counter-revolutionary activities. Mistakes may have been made (no justice system is perfect) but the USSR took responsibility for that. by executing those who abused their power and by saving those who had not perished, and compensating them


 No.2757389

File: 15ec5d86b7093dc⋯.png (340.98 KB, 679x605, 679:605, a Japanese supermarket aft….png)

>>2757371

>where did he state anything that was wrong?

>rejecting everything you don't agree with and saying they are nationalists

None of your ukrainian sources have any primary sources to back them up, especially about the supposed behaviour towards people.

>import 500 tons of grain

<Ignores my post and everything else to repeat the same shit

KYS


 No.2757429

>>2757391

>Lavrentiy Beria

Debunked rubbish, Montefiore is a garbage researcher who's postulations are unsupported by any evidence. The only claim is some memoirs by Khruschev which are unreliable at best. where are the corpses of those women/ why did no one dig them up or look for them when this information was “revealed”? Where are the proofs? Flimsy statements, do not make an argument make.

>you disregarding facts

Yes I mean that YOU disregard facts

>throwing ad homs left and right

Again, that's you. I only state ad hominum at you as a person; you're a twit. However at your argument I point out only facts. Most of your sources are anti-communist, half are made up of pointed Ukrainian nationalists who have no evidence to back them up and have an open agenda against the USSR.

>"American famine" accusation

I didn't make an accusation, I made a comparison and posed the question that judging by this behaviour and information would you say it was an intentional destruction of people, and the answer was no. YOU are making a strawman.

>Mussolini, the young socialist

Calling yourself a socialist does not make you one.

>where did Kornilov declare that he was a fascist

Never stated that, I said quite clearly that while the concept of facism was not in existance at the moment, Kornilov's ideology embodied the same reactionary ideals as fascism. Calling him a fascist is not inaccurate. Does a duck stop being a duck if the word for it didn't exist?

>Different case and context

So now you care about context, LOL

> point still stands

Rigged elections means your point fails. They won most elections that weren't rigged in the right-wing's favor. This is like Hillary supporters thinking she beat Bernie fairly.

>you took out the main opposition

What?

>Kerensky

>leftist

HAHAHAHAHA

How far right is your Overton Window?

>They do, and I've proved that they do

Nope, you haven't

>same old photoshopped pic

lel

>Ilya Ehrenburg

AHA! I knew you'd pull that out.

Yeah see, the thing is you're posting the German propaganda translations that they made in response to Ehrenburg, which they printed as "proof" of the 'soviet monster'

The full text of one these faked leaflets (which you fail to provide because you don't know shit):

"Kill! Kill! In the German race there is nothing but evil; not one among the living, not one among the yet unborn but is evil! Follow the precepts of Comrade Stalin. Stamp out the fascist beast once and for all in its lair! Use force and break the racial pride of these Germanic women. Take them as your lawful booty. Kill! As you storm onward, kill, you gallant soldiers of the Red Army."

http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs983a.html

These words never were written by Ehrenburg. And in his article “Blonde witch” (title hints to Blonde beast = ubermensh) in the Krasnaya Zvezda dated November 25, 1944 Ehrenburg wrote:

"There was a time, when Germans used to fake important documents of state. Now they have fallen so low as to fake my articles. The quotes that German general ascribed to me betrayed their’s author: only the German is able to make up this dirty"

https://web.archive.org/web/20150319064509/https://shoabloger.wordpress.com/2013/09/23/in-defense-of-ilya-ehrenburg/

All Ehrenburg tquotes,: https://labas.livejournal.com/706510.html

Also: "We crossed the border of our homeland. I thought that when we get to Germany, I have no one German will be worth of mercy. So much hatred I had accumulated in my heart ! Why should I feel sorry for his child if he killed mine? Why should I feel sorry for his mother, if mine was hung? Why should I not touch their homes if they burned our houses? I wanted to see eyes of their wives, mothers who gave birth to their sons. Would they have the face to look in my eyes without shame? ...When we came up to some settlement, I saw German kids running around – hungry, ragged and miserable. And I, who had before swore to hate all of them, I gathered some food from soldier ration, added several pieces of sugar, then gave it German children… No, I have not forgotten, I remembered everything they did... but I could not look without pity into these hungry children's eyes " [Aleksievich C. The War with unfeminine face. Minsk , 1985 . Pp. 301-302.]

>Anyone opposing the communists, is a criminal according to communists

Anyone opposing capitalists, is a criminal according to capitalists.

>>2757421

>the children

The daughters were adults, the boy was a son. If they survived they were the perfect puppets for the White Army to use as their propaganda tool "the holy heir". Lenin did not plan on executing the Tsar, this was done without his knowledge and done by the independent actions of that soviet. What was done, was done.

>Lenjin got a wide smile

projection


 No.2757432

>>2757408

In reality Ilya Ehrenburg was publicly criticized for his violent writings by Georgy Aleksandrov, so he was more of the exception rather than the rule. Also that has nothing to do with the Romanov execution.


 No.2757477

File: e61017e06ea93e3⋯.png (1.95 MB, 980x1912, 245:478, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 6741a09af6fe168⋯.png (3.79 MB, 1080x2868, 90:239, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2757452

>Bolsheviks failed because the elections were rigged

Yes, Patrick. YES.

>defending rapists

See pics related, you're a retard

> debunked by who

And we've come full circle, go boil your shirt.


 No.2757502


 No.2757503

>>2757492

>When Yugoslav politician Milovan Djilas complained about rapes in Yugoslavia, Stalin reportedly stated that he should "understand it if a soldier who has crossed thousands of kilometres through blood and fire and death has fun with a woman or takes some trifle."

literally never happened.

>karate arguments and copy pastas again

It's a screenshot of some information and a detailed debunk of the myth, deal with it.

>a quote of a whore means it's ok to rape women

LOL no argument.

Stay mad that your precious uber-mensch weren't raped and that they were defeated by other human beings who didn't do 1/10th of the crimes that they did, and never celebrated any such crimes, but punished them.

PS

>[citation needed]

Literally in the text you illiterate ape.


 No.2757511

>>2757503

according to Soviet Criminal Code the Criminal code from 1934 articles 153-154 states:

153. Sexual relations with the application of physical force, threat, fear, or with the use, through deception, of the helpless condition of the victim (rape) – deprivation of liberty for a term up to five years. If the rape has as its consequence the suicide of the victim or was perpetrated on a person, not having attained sexual maturity, or, on a person of mature years, [by? several persons] – deprivation of liberty for a term of up to eight years.

154. Compelling a woman to enter into a sexual relationship or the satisfaction of a sexual desire in another form by a person, on whom the woman is materially dependent, or subordinate at work – deprivation of liberty for a term up to five years.

Orders and Directive in reference to Germany and the policy towards the population: Жизнь моя, иль ты приснилась мне?

According To O.A. Rzhishevsky, President of the Association of Russian WWII Historians, the timeline of anti-looting and rape measures in the Red Army is as follows: дискуссия продолжается

- January 19, 1945 Stalin signs a general directive which forbids harsh treatment of enemy population by the army. It was duplicated by commanders of multiple fronts, for example commander of the 2nd Belarussian Front Rokossovsky issued an order to execute all looters and rapists on sight.

- This was viewed as not enough and in April 1945 a second order was issued. Its addressed exactly at the two fronts that were conducting the Berlin operation:

A Stavka Directive for commanders of troops and members of military councils of the 1st Belarussian and 1st Ukrainian fronts concerning the necessity of a change in the attitude towards German POWs and the civilian population.

April 20th, 1945 г.

ЦАМО РФ. Ф.236. Оп.2712. Д.390. Л.350–351.

CENTRAL ARCHIVE MINISTRY OF DEFENSE

Stavka HQ Orders:

1. Demand that [soldiers] change their attitude to both, German POWs and German civilians. Treat Germans better. Hash treatment of Germans only causes fear and makes them resist, rather than surrender. Civilian population, expecting retribution, self-organizes into bands. Such situation is not profitable for us. A more humane treatment of the Germans will make it more easy for us to carry out military operations in their territory and of course lower German resistance.

2. in the areas to the West of Oder, Furstenberg and Niece (to the west) create German administrations, and in the cities - appoint German burgomasters. Do not touch regulars members of NSDAP if they are loyal to the Red Army, capture only leaders if they haven't escaped already.

3. Improving attitude towards the Germans doesn't mean losing vigilance or fraternization with them.

Stavka HQ, J. Stalin, Antonov.

I order:

1. Bring into action the directive no later than 4/21/45, and inform every officer and soldier of existing troops and front organizations.

2. Particular attention is paid to the fact that people do not hit the other extreme and would not allow the facts to mix with familiarity with German prisoners of war and civilians.

3. The Chief of Staff, together with the heads of the political departments of the morning of 23/04/45 are to make frequent checks of knowledge of Comrade Stalin’s instructions of all categories of personnel.

G. Zhukov, Telegin, Malinin


 No.2757514

>>2757511

>>2757492

I quite literally have nearly ever single order on the topic of rape quoted somewhere on my hard-drive for this exact bullshit. You have nothing.


 No.2757517

>>2757500

>>2757492

When people are saying that not only the Soviets committed rape, they aren't making an apology for rape. They are just stating the reality that every side on the allies and axis committed rape, including Berlin http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lsereviewofbooks/2017/05/09/book-review-crimes-unspoken-the-rape-of-german-women-at-the-end-of-the-second-world-war-by-miriam-gebhardt/.


 No.2757524

>>2757517

>axis committed rape

On a scale that dwarfed soviet rapes


 No.2757525

Given that most of his posts are deleted, can someone tell me if he actually answered the statements here >>2757313 about the grain exports, or did he just ignore all those points and skip right into talking about the Romanovs and the rape of Berlin?


 No.2757531

>>2757525

>skip right into talking about the Romanovs and the rape of Berlin?

Essentially. He just went back the beginning about how, if the regime changed, that means that the new regime inherited the debt, and that they should have just paid it off. He's run out of steam and is just posting discount Stormfront shit. Even then I have found Stormfront threads that debunk literally every point he made


 No.2757551

>>2757524

Yes, but those rapes committed by the Germans tend to get ignored by people because it was made less "messy" (as in disorganized) and more "efficient" (i.e. Prisoner "brothels", public use lines, sex slavery, etc). Its usually the Japanese who are singled out because their rapes were committed on a large scale during and after the battle and were more "messy", while also retaining sex slaves.


 No.2757555

>>2757531

>that means that the new regime inherited the debt, and that they should have just paid it off.

Then I have no idea why he's complaining about exporting grain still given that they could only pay in a mix of grain, oil, and timber at the time. Does that not now justify the export he decries? Is this not self-defeating?


 No.2757597

>>2757555

Nice tips

>self-defeating

That is what being a /pol/yp is like, regular constant contradictions because their ideology is dichotomous with reality and logic.


 No.2758022

>>2755744

Thank you so much anon! I really should do more poses for my tankgirls.


 No.2758036

>>2758022

Good to see that you're still alive and posting, I thought shit-storm that just went down with the /pol/yp scared everyone away.

>>2675672

seconding this


 No.2758092

>>2757233

>muh aids

you realise HIV/AIDS was nonexistent until capitalism right? nice job inadvertently praising the USSR.


 No.2758108

>>2757503

>literally never happened.

Does Djilas, who is himself a writer, not know what human suffering and the human heart are? Can't he understand it if a soldier who has crossed thousands of kilometers through blood and fire and death has fun with a wench or takes some trifle?

In response to complaints about the rapes and looting committed by the Red Army during the Second World War, as quoted in Conversations with Stalin (1963) by Milovan Djilas, p. 95

>It's a screenshot of some information and a detailed debunk of the myth, deal with it.

Myth about what, you making, premade comments? Golly jee.

>Stay mad that your precious uber-mensch weren't raped

>A documentary book, War's Unwomanly Face by Svetlana Alexievich includes memories by Soviet veterans about their experience in Germany. A member of the Soviet military is quoted as saying:

According to a former army officer:

"We were young, strong, and four years without women. So we tried to catch German women and … Ten men raped one girl. There were not enough women; the entire population run from the Soviet Army. So we had to take young, twelve or thirteen year-old. If she cried, we put something into her mouth. We thought it was fun. Now I can not understand how I did it. A boy from a good family… But that was me.

Svetlana Aleksievich, War’s Unwomanly Face, Moscow : Progress Publishers. 1988

>Geoffrey Roberts writes that the Red Army raped women in every country they passed through, but mostly in Austria and Germany: 70,000–100,000 rapes in Vienna, and "hundreds of thousands" of rapes in Germany. He notes that the German Army probably committed tens of thousands of rapes on the Eastern Front, but that murder was the more typical crime for them.

Roberts, Geoffrey (2013). Victory at Stalingrad: The Battle That Changed History. Routledge. pp. 152–153.

>>2757511

The Bible said,

THOUS SHALL NOT KILL

Therefor no Christian has ever killed.

Checkmate, atheists!

On a side note, the Germans punished people who raped women to, so did the Americans

>130 of the 153 troops disciplined for rape by the Army were African American. Military courts sentenced African American soldiers to more severe punishment than white American soldiers: U.S. forces executed 29 soldiers for rape, 25 of them African American. Many convictions against African Americans were, however, based on flimsy evidence. For example, Marie Lepottevin identified William Downs only because he was "much larger" than the other soldiers, despite the crime taking place in near darkness.

Nig nogs nogging all right

>>2758092

>An type of economic distribution gave me AIDS

ok

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.2758112

File: 23b5ce4c0f9e258⋯.jpg (73.46 KB, 680x490, 68:49, big brain.jpg)

>>2757511

Ten Commandments list

>You shall have no other gods before Me.

>You shall make no idols.

>You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

>Keep the Sabbath day holy.

>Honor your father and your mother.

>You shall not murder.

>You shall not commit adultery.

>You shall not steal.

>You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

>You shall not covet.

Therefor, no Christian ever made any thefts or murders, or adultery or anything.

> Demand that [soldiers] change their attitude to both, German POWs and German civilians.

> Treat Germans better.

WAIT, IS HE IMPLYING ZE SOVIETS WERE NOUGHTY TO ZE GERMANS


 No.2758128

File: 6f64a3ffdc3cb45⋯.png (62.14 KB, 1308x348, 109:29, fake news.PNG)

>>2757477

Fake news

>J. Robert Lilly, Regents professor of sociology and criminology at Northern Kentucky University, reported in Taken by Force: Rape and American GIs in Europe in World War II his estimate that 14,000 rapes were committed by U.S. soldiers in France, Germany and the United Kingdom between 1942 and 1945.

>80k to 120k offspring

So they all had quadruple twins?


 No.2758136

>>2758108

>>An type of economic distribution gave me AIDS

no. HIV wasn't a thing in the USSR until the Gorbachev era and later on during the 90s when it dissolved.


 No.2758139

>>2758136

Because it needed time to get to Russia, since the first case in the US came in the 70s, because it came from Africa in the 60s. And looking at the per capita, Russia is way way worse:

>54 Russia 5.89 per 1,000 people

>69 United States 3.27 per 1,000 people


 No.2758145

>>2758139

> And looking at the per capita, Russia is way way worse:

yeah, maybe it has something to do with the drop in living standards and poor healthcare.


 No.2758147

File: 856215513f8c51d⋯.mp4 (1.28 MB, 640x360, 16:9, rusir.mp4)

>>2758145

Or the fact that Ruskies want some, cheap drugs and cheap fun

because they are, a cheap people

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.2758149

>>2758108

>Does Djilas, who is himself a writer, not know what human suffering and the human heart are? Can't he understand it if a soldier who has crossed thousands of kilometers through blood and fire and death has fun with a wench or takes some trifle?

>In response to complaints about the rapes and looting committed by the Red Army during the Second World War, as quoted in Conversations with Stalin (1963) by Milovan Djilas, p. 95

An anecdote that Stalin supposedly said this, no evidence of it however, again.

>Stay mad that your precious uber-mensch weren't raped

Not what I said

>War's Unwomanly Face by Svetlana Alexievich includes memories by Soviet veterans about their experience in Germany. A member of the Soviet military is quoted as saying

Wow, great cherry pick, but see that doesn't support any thesis of encouraged rape, and the fact of the matter is data shows that this was not common. The reason the numbers were sort of high si because its a several MILLION man army entering a country of over 50 million people, meaning that rape occurring is not unlikely, the numbers were low, and perpetrators punished. The Nazis did not do the same with their own when they did that in the USSR.

>Geoffrey Roberts

rubbish fucking writer

>the Germans punished people who raped women to

Nope, the Keitel order of 1941 specifically forbade investigation into rapes and other such behaviour by German troops in Russia

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/chap16_part04.asp

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-11/tgmwc-11-100-09.shtml

https://web.archive.org/web/20131105230157/http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/USSR5.htm

>the USA

they only punished negroes for that and then only rarely.

“After the fighting moved on to German soil there was a good deal of rape by combat troops and those immediately following them. The incidence varied between unit and unit according to the attitude of the commanding officer. In some cases offenders were identified, tried by court martial, and punished. The army legal branch was reticent, but admitted that for brutal or perverted sexual offences against German women, some soldiers had been shot – particularly if they happened to be Negroes. Yet I know for a fact that many women were raped by white Americans. No action was taken against the culprits. In one sector a report went round that a certain very distinguished army commander had made the wisecrack: "Copulation without conversation does not constitute fraternization."

A divisional officer remarked dryly during a discussion of the non-fraternization edict: "This is surely the first in history a serious effort has been made to deny soldiers the use of women in a country they have conquered!"

- Osmar White, By the eyes of a war correspondent

Additionally in my old research I came across the works of the Russian historian Mikhalev. His book Human Losses in the Great Patriotic War 1941–1945 A Statistical Investigation, covers the soviet losses in WW 2. The number of military losses were 10.9 million dead soviet troops. Of them 994,300 were those convicted of offences during the course of the war 422,700 were sent to penal battalions, 436,600 imprisoned in Gulag labor camps and 135,000 executed. As the punishment for rape was execution, and since I have heard many wehraboos quora users, WW-2 forum pages and other discussions describe how these rapes happened all the time, I’ve decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that all 135,000 executed offenders were rapists…. that STILL is nowhere near 2 million. Even if one were to say that all of these offenders were rapists, (which is factually incorrect considering the documentation), One would still get LESS than 1/2 of the claimed 2 million.

>THOUS SHALL NOT KILL

>Therefor no Christian has ever killed

false argument

>>2758128

>fake news

>twins

Mind boggling mental gymnastics by a /pol/yp are not unusual.

>>2758147

>russians wanted

Nope, all stats show that Most Russians did not and still do not want capitalism, and those ills of capitalism.

>they're cheap people

that's rich coming from scum like you


 No.2758150

Whelp, it's been fun proving /pol/ is dumb again, but I got shit to do. If you want to keep spamming here, be my guest, but I'm done replying. You have nothing.

Oh but before that. Here a final dump

A good addition on a German over-view on the basis of documents and personal experience is the book Die Tötungs- und Vergewaltigungsverbrechen der Roten Armee auf deutschem Boden 1944/45, by German historian Manfred Zeidler, published in Wette/Überschär, Kriegsverbrechen im 20. Jahrhundert, Darmstadt 2001

The following is pages 418 to 432.

Credit to the translation goes to Roberto of forums.axishistory.com

The numerous footnotes were only translated where deemed essential for the understanding of the text or otherwise of particular interest.

Given the length of the essay, I’ll divide the translation into the following parts:

Part 1: The Background / Facts and Figures

Part 2: The Perpetrators / Hatred and Propaganda

Part 3: A Change of Policy


 No.2758151

File: 1b7f7f8d54e3008⋯.png (113.56 KB, 599x491, 599:491, proofings.png)

>>2758149

>NUUH IT'S FAKE BECAUSE IT CONTRADICTS RUSSIAN OFFICIAL STATISTICS

>NUUH IT'S FAKE BECAUSE IT HURTS MY WORLD VIEW

top fucking kek m8

Keep at it

>Mind boggling mental gymnastics by a /pol/yp are not unusual.

>claims an absurd number

>can't back it up

>no u

lol

Also, all your sources don't even mention the word rape, so

BTFO'd

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.2758152

>>2758150

Tuck your tail and run commie


 No.2758153

>>2758150

Part 1 The Background

"First the other peoples became victims of a war emanating from Germany, before we ourselves became victims of our own war", said Richard von Weizsäcker in his widely noted speech on the 40th anniversary of the war’s end on 8 May 1985, in which he reminded his listeners that the cause for the violence inflicted on the Germans in 1945 and thereafter should be sought not at the end of the war but "at its beginning and at the beginning of the violent regime that led to war." The flame of hatred and violence lit by Not Socialist Germany, especially through its conduct of war and occupation rule in the East, eventually hit Germany and its population and left painful wounds that forged the image held by many Germans of their eastern neighbors, especially Russians and Poles, over a period of decades. Two years after the end of the war, in the spring of 1947, Walter Dirks wrote the following in the ‘Franfurter Hefte’: "Horrible things have happened, especially in the Polish areas, East Prussia and Silesia, torments and rapes such as we wouldn’t have thought possible prior to the experiences of the Hitler era." He herewith addressed a collective trauma that was linked to the end of the war for a long time, especially by the millions of refugees and expellees. In the mid-1950s the Federal Ministry for Expulsion Affairs (Bundesvertriebenenministerium) put together a voluminous documentation in which it tried to reconstruct the chaotic events of the last months of the war on hand of a multitude of eyewitness accounts and thus to save them for the collective memory of the federal German public. Two decades later, in the mid-1970s. it was two Soviet ‘dissidents’ from the war generation, Aleksandr Solzhenizyn and Lev Kopelev, who from their personal experience addressed the sensitive topic of the behavior of their own armed forces in the last months of the war without any cosmetic and thus broke a strong taboo of the official Soviet culture of memory. Kopelev, whose memoirs ‘Chranit vecno’ first appeared in the US and caused a sensation especially among the West German public, wrote: "Was it really necessary and inevitable that our people should become such savages - rape and robbery, did that have to be? […] In the newspapers, in the radio, we called for holy revenge. But what avengers were those, and against whom did they take revenge? Why did so many of our soldiers turn out to be mean bandits, who gang-raped women and girls - on the streets, in the snow, in house entrances; who killed unarmed people, and who destroyed, spoiled, burned down everything they could not carry along? […] Senselessly - out of pure vandalism." Today, more than half a century after the end of the war, after the political turnover in the countries of the former socialist camp and the - albeit still reluctant - farewell to the heroic, idealizing images of history from the Soviet era, they are prepared to approach the historical truth there as well. Thus a Russian author [Marina Klemeseva], in a collection about the history of East Prussia that appeared in 1996 in Kaliningrad, admitted to the following in regard to the conquest of the city by the Red Army in April 1945: "There were cases of robbery, arson, senseless murder and rape of German women. Yet these were expressions of arbitrary abuses by members of the military, expressions of blind and grim feelings of personal revenge which soldiers could not so easily rid themselves of after having lost what is dear to every man in the war for destruction of the Slavic peoples unleashed by Hitler. […]"At another place, in a critical assessment of the West German expulsion documentation from the 1950s, the author reiterates her key statement: "There were no organized crimes, there was no deliberate killing of the civilian population through starvation!" Even though the existence of a killing program carried out by the state and ideologically motivated, like those of Not Socialism, may be excluded, the question remains whether the contemporary political leadership of the Soviet Union can therewith be considered as exculpated. In other words: can the massive acts of violence by Red Army soldiers be seen as individual excesses without any co-responsibility of their political and military leadership? Or where there structural reasons which can be seen as causal for the occurrences together with the specific circumstances of the moment, and which can be imputed to the political leadership of the Soviet state ?


 No.2758154

>>2758153

Part 2(a) The Perpetrators

As the search for regional concentrations prominently sticking out in the overall image of these occurrences is unnecessary, except for what was already said about Rokossovsky’s 2nd Belorussian Front, there are basically two questions that remain to be clarified: where within the Red Army was the mass of the perpetrators to be found, and what causes related to both the army structure and the political-ideological leadership can be identified in this respect ?

Regarding the first question it must be said that, contrary to many German witness reports, the great mass of rapes and acts of violence cannot have been committed, as the Federal Archives stated in their internal evaluation of their witness material in the 1970s, "almost everywhere by soldiers and officers of the Soviet supply units". In these units, which in the final phase of the war made up about a third of the personnel of a front, there served a multitude of specialists from the industry, the administration and the transportation sector, besides many elder soldiers who had often been released from active combat duty. Furthermore it was especially in these units and the medical service that the greater part of those 800,000 Soviet women and girls who during the war saw front line service were to be found. Here, as in the higher officer corps, the number of so-called front line weddings and that of servicemen who had their wedded spouse beside them almost daily performing similar duties was especially high. Exceptions aside, the operative armored units of the tank corps and tank armies including their infantry support mostly mounted on the vehicles must also be excluded, for under the constant time pressure of the war of movement over large areas between the Vistula and the Oder they usually had no time for more than the often described hasty collecting of watches. Like the artillery, described by many Soviet war participants as the pool of the army’s intellectual elite, they were those least involved in excesses and crimes against the German population.


 No.2758155

File: e2c9ba5bf317807⋯.jpg (146.15 KB, 816x684, 68:57, cry harder nazi.jpg)

>>2758151

>NUUH IT'S FAKE BECAUSE IT CONTRADICTS RUSSIAN OFFICIAL STATISTICS

No argument detected, none of your sources have any statistical or empircal stat of any kind.

>world view

look who's talking

>claims absurd number

That's you. My numbers are based on documented statistics. Yours are based on Goebbels hysteria propaganda.

>sources don't mention the word rape

You are an illiterate moron.

>BTFO

LOL no u

>>2758152

>Tuck your tail and run commie

No argument, cry harder nazi


 No.2758156

>>2758154

Thus Colonel General Mikhail J. Katukov in his war memoirs remarked, certainly not by coincidence and not without satisfaction, that his own army military tribunals of the 1st Guards Tank Army, advancing at the head of the 1st Belorussian Front, "didn’t have to bother themselves with shameful behavior by our soldiers against the German civilian population."

The overwhelming majority of the acts of violence came from the infantry rifle units, who due to the known deep echelon deployment of the attacking Soviet troops showed themselves to the German population later, i.e. as the 2nd or 3rd echelon. Their task was to occupy the conquered territory on the heels of the advancing operative tank units and to clear it of enemy resistance. How this was done was described by Marshal Rokossovsky himself in his war memoirs on hand of the example of the conquest of Stolp within the scope of his army group’s operations in Eastern Pomerania in the first days of March 1945 by the 3rd Guards Tank Corps of Major General Aleksej P. Panfilov’s, acting as a motorized advance unit of the 19th Army: "[The tank soldiers] drove through the order of battle of the slowly advancing infantry, went around the city unnoticed with their tanks on forest tracks and attacked it by surprise from the flanks and the rear. […] Panfilov handed over the city with the booty and the prisoners to the infantry and took his corps further east." Reminiscent of archaic wartime customs, this short-term handing over of conquered cities with a corresponding license to plunder for the troops is today confirmed by former Soviet officers also for East Prussia.

The reasons for the infantry’s special predisposition for acts of violence are of various nature and essentially touch their situation within the army structure. First of all it was the largest arms category in terms of numbers. Their exorbitantly high losses, which in the last 28 months of the war made up 86.5 percent of all losses and thus far exceeded those of other arms categories also in relative terms, led to a high fluctuation within the ranks. The fast throughput of personnel, with the roster of whole battalions and regiments being almost completely exchanged within a few weeks, meant that, unlike in the technical combat units, hardly any firm primary groups could develop to psychically stabilize and have a regulatory effect on the individual soldier. Based on his own first-hand experience, Lev Kopelev vividly described the difference between the types of men and characters among the various arms categories of the Red Army and expressed his sympathy for the young, intellectually interested weapons specialist of mostly student background, a type of soldier that was much rarer in the infantry: "There the people were more randomly bunched together, the losses were higher, the composition of ranks and officers changed more frequently, firmly rooted comradeship could not come into being. […] In the infantry the service is tougher, customs are rougher; the young officers quickly become crude and hard."


 No.2758157

Ukranians are amongst the most retarded people to exist. Good thing they are a useless cuck state with no real power.


 No.2758158

>>2758156

Obviously there was also arbitrary behavior by individual troop commanders below divisional level, who for a time let their soldiers do as they pleased, but thereby clearly violated existing regulations. Rigorous orders for restoring discipline and putting an end to senseless destruction and illegal booty collecting were issued both by the front line courts martial and the military criminal prosecution authorities already in the first days after the crossing of the Reich border. For Rokossovskij’s 2nd Belorussian Front such an order was already issued on 22 January, for the 1st Ukrainian Front in Silesia under Marshal Ivan S. Konev on 27 January 1945, for the 3rd Belorussian Front under Colonel General Ivan D. Cernjakovskij apparently only later. The measures to restore troop discipline, which expressly condemned “cases of use of weapons by army members against the German population, especially women and children” and threatened severe punishment of the perpetrators [Footnote: Federal Archives-Military Archives Freiburg, RH 2/2687, pages 88 and following and 159-163 (German), here page 160: circular of the military prosecutor of the 48th Army to all prosecutors of his divisions of 23 January 1945], were accompanied by a series of lecturing articles in the army press, initiated by an article of 9 February 1945 in the defense ministry’s organ ‘Krasnaya Zvezda’ (Red Star) headed “Our Revenge” and containing the statement: “Our revenge is not blind, our anger not unreasonable”. Nevertheless a marked decrease of the wave of violence was not to be observed before the conquest of Danzig on 30 March and of Königsberg on 9 April 1945.


 No.2758159

>>2758158

A Change of Policy

A political calculation favored the violent behavior, insofar at was restricted to the region east of Oder and Neisse. It resulted from the fact that the postwar fate of these areas had already been decided about in a secret, (people’s) Polish - Soviet border agreement of 27 July 1944, due to which both partners had no interest in a sparing treatment of the German population remaining there. On the contrary: an ethnic cleansing of these regions through a flight unleashed in the course of the combat actions was even bound to be considered a desired effect. This changed radically only with the Red Army’s advance onto the territory of the later Soviet Occupation Zone in the course of the “Berlin Operation” since 16 April 1945. Now the task was to build a constructive relationship towards the German people on the soil of the own occupation zone and to give clear signs in this direction. On 14 April 1945 Ehrenburg was thus publicly lectured on grounds of his destructive hate - and revenge propaganda by the propaganda department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. The political proclamations to the troops at the beginning of the offensive on Oder and Neisse now emphasized, contrary to what had been the case during the January offensive at the Vistula, the proletarian internationalism and the “brotherly alliance with the German workers”. “Hate against the Germans, hit the Germans!” was now considered “the slogan of ordinary, i.e. bourgeois patriotism”. [Footnote: F.J. Bokov, Frühjahr des Sieges und der Befreiung (“Spring of Victory and Liberation”), Berlin 1981, page 150.]

Another signal followed on 17 April 1945, when a decision of 3 February of that year was modified to the effect that the recruitment and deportation of forced laborers from the German population was stopped. Three days later Stalin himself, in a directive of his headquarters to the soldiers of 20 April headed “About the Change of Behavior of Red Army Troops towards the German Prisoners of War and the Civilian Population”, pointed out the need of a change for the better in this respect: “A more humane behavior towards the Germans”, it was stated therein, would facilitate “the conduction of military operations on their territory and diminish their resistance”. Furthermore a population frightened to death would organize itself in bands, which was also “of disadvantage for us”. Even ordinary members of the NSDAP should not be bothered if they showed themselves loyal towards the Red Army. Only the leaders were to be arrested “if they have not yet managed to get away”. In parallel to this proclamations were issued to the German population not to give credence to rumors about “Bolshevik atrocities” and massive deportations, together with the advice to neither flee now follow any evacuation orders.


 No.2758160

>>2758159

If the Soviets had returned to the Germans even only 10 percent of all the evil they had done to them during the War, Germany would have been erased from existence. The sordid attempts to tarnish the Red Army are nothing more than mass media posting scandal stories and do not correspond to factual evidence and genuine memoirs. To those who do write these, I have only one thing to say, Goebbels applauds you.


 No.2758161

>>2758157

The poster is a Serb though


 No.2758180

someone screencap this shit


 No.2758201

>>2758161

Serbs are the other autistic slavic folk.


 No.2758212

File: ad3fc5a0b40ce13⋯.jpg (139.34 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, really makes you think.jpg)

>on one side stale platitudes and autistic screeching

>on the other side actual sources and statistics


 No.2758243

File: cdb672a4b5d590d⋯.jpg (269.21 KB, 800x1086, 400:543, SMALL_PROMO-800x1086.jpg)

Ukraine propaganda machine totally gone bananas. Can we fix wonderworld on pic?


 No.2758247

File: b298466da9c119d⋯.png (551.8 KB, 970x582, 5:3, 40d1c1e3-6adf-43b6-bdd9-32….png)

>>2758243

Wtf

Did Ukraine even had an army back then..


 No.2758248

>>2758247

They only have it in wet dreams.


 No.2758250

>>2758243

>Soviets are zombies


 No.2758326

File: f881dee668ca77d⋯.png (226.2 KB, 507x367, 507:367, 10 out of 10.PNG)

>>2758155

>No argument detected, none of your sources have any statistical or empircal stat of any kind.

see any single one of my comments

You're just throwing ad homs, refusing to take anything besides from state funded propaganda, and besides eating shit you're slurping piss as well.

>That's you. My numbers are based on documented statistics. Yours are based on Goebbels hysteria propaganda.

Care to prove that, without strawman this time? Come on it can be the first time.

>No argument, cry harder nazi

>anyone opposed to communism is a nazi

I was thinking I was a liberal back then? Am I, a liberal nazi now?

>>2758160

>If the Soviets had returned to the Germans even only 10 percent of all the evil they had done to them during the War, Germany would have been erased from existence.

So by your math, the Russians were erased from existence 10 times?

>>2758212

He proved nothing but that he misused information and threw ad homs. I mean really, anyone not supporting his views must be wrong because Russian propaganda said otherwise.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.2759030

File: 87909d2844afced⋯.png (141.57 KB, 500x552, 125:138, capitalist defenders.png)

>>2758326

>see any single one of my comments

Yeah I only see drivel

>You're just throwing ad homs

Nope, you are

>efusing to take anything besides from state funded propaganda

He says while providing sources backed by the CIA and nazi-supporters

>Care to prove that, without strawman this time

I already did, unlike you.

>anyone opposed to communism is a nazi

Not what I said. You are a nazi because you support and use nazi sources and play the same tired Goebbels propaganda.

>I was thinking I was a liberal back then

same shit in the end, enemies of the people.

>So by your math, the Russians were erased from existence 10 times?

You are illiterate. The German population was far smaller than the Soviet population, yet even in ratio the civilian casualties of the Germans inflicted by the Soviets are a pittance. Meanwhile the Naizs exterminated not millions but 10s of millions of innocent civilians, and did so as an official policy rather than actions of rogue troops.

>he misused information and threw ad homs

I know you do

>anyone not supporting his views must be wrong because Russian propaganda said otherwise

I haven't cited russian propaganda, dip-shit /pol/ak.


 No.2761207

File: c01cb20b4032b9e⋯.png (2.8 MB, 3323x3364, 3323:3364, France-chan.png)

>Here is France-chan holding her torn and raggedy looking flag.


 No.2761210

>>2761207

Wrong flag anon


 No.2761404

File: 2140ac04baba96b⋯.png (233.62 KB, 522x496, 261:248, flute.png)

>>2759030

>ur wrong because u post nazi propaganda

>no u most dogmatically believe in soviet propaganda

Dem mental gymnastics

>You are illiterate. The German population was far smaller than the Soviet population, yet even in ratio the civilian casualties of the Germans inflicted by the Soviets are a pittance. Meanwhile the Naizs exterminated not millions but 10s of millions of innocent civilians, and did so as an official policy rather than actions of rogue troops.

Where was Hitlers order for the Holocaust?

On a side note:

Soviet population before the conflict: ~190 million

German population before the conflict : ~70 million

Civilian deaths due to military activity and crimes against humanity:

Soviet Union: 8,668,000 to 11,400,000 / Adjusted by population size, 2.36% to 5.26% of the total population

Germany: 1,500,000 to 3,000,000 / Adjusted by population size, 2.14 % to 4.28% of the total population


 No.2761473

File: 72c7c0dfd592c56⋯.png (3.14 MB, 1500x4092, 125:341, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 63c83cf444704c6⋯.png (3.19 MB, 1500x2702, 750:1351, ClipboardImage.png)

File: a6b78eb15c3e448⋯.png (2.2 MB, 1500x2406, 250:401, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2761404

>u most dogmatically believe in soviet propaganda

Literally did not but keep pissing yourself over that

>Hitler's orders for the holocaust

This shit again

1) I wasn't even talking about the Holocaust although a good third of the victims at least were soviets

2) The "Hitler's orders argument" is an appeal to authority argument that ignores the fact that the nazis destroyed many of their documents, despite which both physical evidence and commented evidence of the holocaust occurring exists.

>https://imgur.com/a/725A7

>compares population and civilians dead and doesn't actually adjust for the differences in MILITARY size. 20 million soviet soldiers vs 6 million German, almost 4 times as many by the end of the war. Thus the Germans inflicted 4x the amount of civilian deaths/crimes against humanity according to YOUR sourceless statistics, because they were 1/4 the size of the Soviet army. This is also ignoring that most civilian deaths and losses in Germany were caused by the Western allies, and their strategic bombing, rather than anything else.


 No.2761487

>>2761207

That's the flag of Yugoslavia without the red star. France has a vertical tricolour.


 No.2761591

>>2758243

>but guise the Ukrainians aren't fashist !111!!1

Getting tired of being proven right tbh


 No.2761618

File: 72dbb0b558383ba⋯.png (994.17 KB, 1000x827, 1000:827, khrushchev gun.png)

>>2761553

>german military casualties are "the result of Soviet war crimes"

lmao


 No.2761640

File: 38db9e3b09e7c9c⋯.jpg (95.88 KB, 960x960, 1:1, izreal.jpg)

>>2761618

If the civilians are a part of the military, then the German battle efficiency must have been much higher than the stated.


 No.2761858

File: 8c35e0f9e38af60⋯.png (513.99 KB, 500x707, 500:707, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 23ab6693c8e88e1⋯.png (1.82 MB, 702x2649, 234:883, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2761553

>A study published by the German government in 1989

Which one? East Germany and West Germany did not unite until 1991 onwards

>the Soviets would have gladly launched a strategic bombing offensive had they the capability

No quotations or source to this claimed quote, not by you nor in the book.

Copy-pasting storm-front rants is not a great argumentative tactic.

>Germans have twice the efficiency

Nope, in terms of losses the German to Sovie military loss ratio was 1:1.3, mostly because the Germans had the intiative of a surprise attack and were brutalizing Soviet troops, who did not brutalize POWs NEARLy as much as the Germans did.

For once your sources that you cited aren't trash... except that they don't prove your point, they're just random bits of almost irrelevant information.


 No.2761920

File: d97f5a3f870775a⋯.png (221.44 KB, 555x782, 555:782, are you sure about that.PNG)

>>2761858

>A study published by the German government in 1989

Not the eastern one for sure.

>No quotations or source to this claimed quote, not by you nor in the book.

<

>Nope, in terms of losses the German to Sovie military loss ratio was 1:1.3, mostly because the Germans had the intiative of a surprise attack

Soviet*

Initiative*

>Casualties and losses

Axis: 5 million dead.

Allies/ Soviet Union: 8.7/10 million dead

I would not bet that it's 1.3, if the highest estimate is correct, then it's 1:2.

>who did not brutalize POWs NEARLy as much as the Germans did.

Except the ones it took out when the invasion began during the NKVD purges of political prisoners, then again the ratio is in play, Germans had to feed a larger part of the Soviet POWs when food was running low, Soviets had to deal with a much smaller army.

The number of Soviet prisoners vary but let's take both mediums:

Germans: ~400k, not including MIA (from 700-800k)

Soviets: ~2.5 m, including MIA

That's 8,3% loss for the grand total army size for the Soviets, and a 2,6% for the Germans.

But since they are confined to the eastern front the ratios of the losses, if we take the largest deployment number, would be approx.:

37,18% for the Soviets and 10.17% for the Germans that died in POW camps.

But once you add the approx. reserves in the total army size you get a number for the Soviets that would be: 14.70%.


 No.2762083

>>2761920

>No quotations from Sokolovsky

>No citation or mention of WHERE he supposedly said this. i know that the Soviets lacked strategic bombing capability comparable to the US and UK (though unlike the former they had to move all their factories to the East, rebuild them and then start production so…) but I have never heard a quote as such.

?

>Axis: 5 million dead.

>Allies/Soviet Union: 8.7/10 million dead

More of these number games

GERMAN losses were 5 million dead give or take a few hundred thousand, over-all Axis losses in Europe were higher.

According to Glantz's Soviet-German War 1941-1945: Myths and Realities, (one of the best analyses of the Eastern Front Losses),

the total number of casualties (killing, missing, or captured) for the Red Army is 14.7 million. By the same metric, the Germans lost 10,758,000 men on the Eastern Front. Glantz also counts 1,725,000 men from Hungary, Italy, Romania, and Finland (all part of the Axis) thus bringing up total Axis losses to 12483000 which is only 2 million fewer than the Soviet losses and since the Axis army was smaller than the Soviet army that means the Axis loss ratio was higher.

>when the invasion began during the NKVD purges of political prisoners

They didn't, most were either evacuated East or had their cases reviewed and released. Executions were limited to real criminals or military officers who showed criminal negligence.

>Germans had to feed a larger part of the Soviet POWs

Soviet POWs were kept in the same concentration camps the Jews were kept in, and treated the same. Thus the Germans had far less trouble caring for them… because they basically didn't.

I can only quote Colonel-General Hoepner. On May 2nd 1941 he stated,

"The war against the Soviet Union is an essential component of the German people's struggle for existence. It is the old struggle of the Germans against the Slavs, the defense of European culture against the Muscovite-Asiatic flood, the warding off of Jewish Bolshevism. This struggle must have as its aim the demolition of present Russia and must therefore be conducted with unprecedented severity. Both the planning and the execution of every battle must be dictated by an iron will to bring about a merciless, total annihilation of the enemy. Particularly no mercy should be shown toward the carriers of the present Russian-Bolshevik system." - (Hitler's Army: Soldiers, Nazis, and War in the Third Reich By Omer Bartov, Pg 128-129)

This was their sentiment from the very beginning and part of their ideology and military doctrine. The soviets never had this and in fact repeatedly had political officers inform the soldiers that they must not blame the people of Germany… Human hared and revenge, can over-rule the rules they set for themselves at times. The Germans did not have this as their goal from the beginning was the destruction and helotization of Russia.

- https://books.google.com/books?id=QSpUZ6t6BPwC&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q&f=false

- https://books.google.com/books?id=ATCXucbTYX0C&pg=PA161#v=onepage&q&f=false

“Lächerliche hundert Millionen Slawen”, so Hitler am 6.8.1942, “werden wir absorbieren oder verdrängen. Wenn hier einer von Betreuen spricht, dem muss man gleich ins KZ stecken” (Speer, 1981, 422).

Source of quote: Speer, A., Der Sklavenstaat. Meine Auseinandersetzung mit der SS, Stuttgart 1981, as quoted in Gunnar Heinsohn, Lexikon der Völkermorde, Hamburg 1998, page 305.

Translation (Heinsohn): “A ridiculous 100 million Slavs”, said Hitler on 6.8.1942, “we will absorb or displace. Whoever speaks of taking care of these people should be put in a concentration camp right away” (Speer, 1981, 422).


 No.2762085

>>2761920

>>2762083

Cont.

The Soviets actually treated their POWs within the international laws of conventions. GERMANY definitively signed the convention of the 1929 Geneva Convention and according to Article 82:

“The provisions of the present Convention shall be respected by the High Contracting Parties in all circumstances. In time of war if one of the belligerents is not a party to the Convention, its provisions shall, nevertheless, remain binding as between the belligerents who are parties thereto.”

Thus Germany, disregarded this and openly violated the convention, Being quite official. On Pg 153 of Professor René Provost’s 2002 book, International Human Rights and Humanitarian Law (Cambridge University Press) one can find a very important quotation,

“Germany, for her part, complied with the 1929 Convention in its treatment of prisoners of war from treaty parties such as France or United Kingdom, but refused to grant similar treatment to Soviet prisoners of war because the USSR was not a party and refused to agree to apply the Convention” [6]

Note 6: A distinction graphically illustrated by Marcel Junod, Le Troisieme combattant (Geneva ICRC, 1989) 262

When Admiral Canaris pointed out to Keitel vis-a-vis international law - that regardless of whether or not the Soviet Union was party to the 1929 Geneva Convention, the members of its armed forces remained entitled to the protections of customary rules of international humanitarian law. Keitel's arrogant response is oft stated as:

'The objections arise from the military concept of chivalrous warfare. This is the destruction of an ideology. Therefore I approve and back the measures'

Even the claim that the USSR did not sign conventions is subject to debate in the light of various bits of information that has been floating to the surface.

Memorandum of the People's Commissariat for Foreign Affairs of the USSR to the Swedish Mission in the USSR:

“In response to the memorandum of the Swedish in Moscow of 14 July, in which the Swedish government asks to inform it whether the Soviet Union in the present war with Germany recognizes itself bound by the Hague Convention of 18 October 1907 on laws and customs of war on land, the People's Commissariat for Foreign Affairs has an honor to report the following:

The Soviet Government recognizes itself bound by the Hague Convention of 18 October 1907 on laws and customs of war on land. However, the Soviet government finds it necessary to emphasize that in the war with the fascist Germany the Soviet Union is dealing such an enemy which systematically rudely violates all the international treaties and conventions. That presents the Soviet government with a necessity to observe the above mentioned Hague Convention in regard to the fascist Germany only as far as this convention is observed by Germany itself.” -Moscow. 17 July 1941

This memorandum was presented to the the Swedish ambassador in the USSR on 17 July 1941. Original Russian source is the official publication "Documents of foreign policy". Vol.24: МИНИСТЕРСТВО ИНОСТРАННЫХ ДЕЛ РОССИЙСКОЙ ФЕДЕРАЦИИ ДОКУМЕНТЫ ВНЕШНЕЙ ПОЛИТИКИ 22 июня 1941 - 1 января 1942 МОСКВА «МЕЖДУНАРОДНЫЕ ОТНОШЕНИЯ» 2000 ТОМ ДВАДЦАТЬ ЧЕТВЕРТЫЙ

>Soviets had to deal with a much smaller army.

The German army was smaller, but it had the forces of Western Europe behind it. Not to mention that a large portion of Soviet forces were PERMANENTLY on the Manchurian border to make sure Japan didn't attack as well.


 No.2762529

>>2762085

On another key point, according to Order No. 270, all Soviet armed forces, that surrender to the Germans had "set out severe penalties for deserters and senior officers regarded as derelicting their duties."

So basically they are dead either way because back home they would be seen as cowards or traitors.>>2762085


 No.2762614

>>2762529

only 0.5% of deserts were actually executed

yawn, you are boring AND stupid


 No.2762615

>>2762614

*deserters


 No.2762653

File: 76ddbf65360e3a7⋯.png (196.7 KB, 618x525, 206:175, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 22ae84879fdf966⋯.png (315.86 KB, 658x580, 329:290, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 4c7cfa2356bd645⋯.png (225.03 KB, 610x538, 305:269, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 08c2a036c9cb1c9⋯.png (270.63 KB, 942x609, 314:203, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2762493

>Semantics, know what you read before you post it.

I do, which is why I posted it, not all civilian casualties were deaths, no? Same goes for military, yes, no?

>more ad hominum about "muh propaganda"

Ok

>00803

>All this typical /leftpol/-tier rubbish about "anyone who opposed Stalin". Solzhenitsyn is objectively a unreliable source.

I can only point out that Sholokhov, the anti-soviet writer who wrote Quiet Flows the Don, not only did NOT get put in the GULAG for that book but received the highest award in the USSR despite the book being bitterly critical of the soviets.

>https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/10/09/the-truth-about-the-soviet-gulag-surprisingly-revealed-by-the-cia/

>https://web.archive.org/web/20150628014848/http://www.northstarcompass.org/nsc0901/gulag.htm

>http://sovietinfo.tripod.com/GTY-Penal_System.pdf

>https://www.cercec.fr/materiaux/doc_membres/Gabor%20RITTERSPORN/Victims%20of%20the%20Gulag.pdf

"Almost a million Gulag prisoners were released during World War II to serve in the military. The archives reveal that more than half of all gulag deaths for the 1934-53 period occurred during the war years (1941-45), mostly from malnutrition, when severe privatization was the common lot of the entire Soviet population. (Some 22 million Soviet citizens perished in the war.) In 1944, for instance, the labor-camp death rate was 92 per 1000. By 1953, with the postwar recovery, camp deaths had declined to three per 1000." - Parenti, Michael. Blackshirts and Reds, San Francisco: City Light Books, 1997, p. 79

>Yury Boshyk

Another Ukrainian nationalist shill, FFS ad cited by yet another shill.

>citationless anecdotal quote that does not have any actual basis to it. It was physically impossible for the NKVD to have done this in the time period given. It was physically impossible for them to have done a simple shoot-in-the-back-of-the-head execution, let alone torture them as you and your retarded sources falsely claim.

>herry-picked half of the Geneva COnvention,

<ignores the other half explicitly stating that they must adhere to it with those that have not signed it

<Ignores the fact that the USSR did join and that it had signed prior conventions on humanitarian treatment and war which were still in effect.

<Ignores the fact that the USSR itself did adhere to them and had no official, or ideological policy aimed against the general German Population.

This is why people like you are hated, you make a carefully selective argument, which requires 10x the effort to debunk because you ommit 90% of the context and facts of the matter and only use the supposedly condemning part.


 No.2762654

>>2703479

Maybe someone should make an archived version with the specific sources highlighted? Espresso Stalinist crammed a lot of stuff in that section


 No.2762677

>>2762648

>The rest were imprisoned and treated as traitors, and what was left served in the penal battalions, meaning, they'd be meat for the slaughter.

Penal Battalions were the default for any treasonous action, despite that it was only a 2 month service and if you shed blood or acted heroically you would immediately be transferred back into your original unit and given your rank back, not to mention awarded.

Here an entire documented account by a man who actually served in the Penal Battalions.

In other words: The idea of penal battalions was to let for criminals to redeem their fault "by blood".

If a member of a Soviet penal battalion was wounded or made a feat (captured a prisoner, for example) so he was considered redeemed his fault "by blood" and should return in his unit where he served before the penal battalion.

>Use a site translator, they're free, lazy fuck: http://lib.ru/MEMUARY/1939-1945/PEHOTA/pylcin.txt

>Interview with him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N3Mo7dyGYY

Also the Germans had their

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafbataillon

Except that unlike the soviet one, it was far worse.

>>2762529

>ll Soviet armed forces, that surrender to the Germans had "set out severe penalties for deserters and senior officers regarded as derelicting their duties."

And? The same attitude is in every army. The British army would have you shot for merely opposing an officer.

>they are dead either way because back home they would be seen as cowards or traitors

If you are a soldier and surrender when you are armed and conscious then you are betraying your comrades. Obviously those soldiers who were injured or otherwise unable to fight and captured were not counted, which is why so few soviet POWs were treated criminally.


 No.2762681

File: c248e10ded8e852⋯.png (10.48 MB, 1764x2634, 294:439, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2762493

>Semantics, know what you read before you post it.

Just to add some more since you're clearly a moron.

According to meticulous post-Soviet archival work (G. I. Krivosheev in Soviet Casualties and Combat Losses), the total number of men (and in the Soviet case, about 1mn women) who passed through the armed forces of the USSR was 34,476,700 and through Germany’s was 21,107,000. Of these, the “irrevocable losses” (the number of soldiers who were killed in military action, went MIA, became POWs and died of non-combat causes) was 11,285,057 for the USSR, 6,231,700 for Germany, 6,923,700 for Germany and its occupied territories, and 8,649,500 for all the Axis forces on the Eastern Front. Thus, the total ratio of Soviet to Nazi military losses was 1.3:1. Hardly the stuff of “Asiatic hordes” of Nazi and Russophobic imagination (that said, also contrary to popular opinion, Mongol armies were almost always a lot smaller than those of their enemies and they achieved victory through superior mobility and coordination, not numbers).

The problem is that during the Cold War, the historiography in the West was dominated by the memoirs of Tippelskirch, who wrote in the 1950’s citing constant Soviet/German forces ratios of 7:1 and losses ratio of 10:1. This has been carried over into the 1990’s (as with popular “historians” like Anthony Beevor), although it should be noted that more professional folks like Richard Overy are aware of the new research. Note also that cumulatively 28% and 57% of all Soviet losses were incurred in 1941 and 1942 (Krivosheev) respectively – the period when the Soviet army was still relatively disorganized and immobile, whereas for the Germans the balance was roughly the opposite with losses concentrated in 1944-45.

The idea that there were two soldiers for every rifle in the Red Army, as portrayed in the ahistorical propaganda film Enemy at the Gates, is a complete figment of the Russophobic Western imagination. From 1939 to 1945, the USSR outproduced Germany in aircraft (by a factor of 1.3), tanks (1.7), machine guns (2.2), artillery (3.2) and mortars (5.5), so in fact if anything the Red Army was better equipped than the Wehrmacht (sources – Richard Overy, Why the Allies Won; Chris Chant, Small Arms).

Early in the war the Soviets understood that a precision built bolt action rifle with sights graduated to 1200 yards was an expensive option and one that required considerable time and resources to train huge numbers of troops on. The Mosin–Nagant of which they made 37,000,000 was a good weapon but one that only a small percentage of their infantrymen could use to its maximum potential and as with all bolt guns was cursed with a slow rate of fire and a limited magazine capacity.

The soviets realized sooner than anyone else that 90% of infantry combat takes place at close range (<=200 meters) where full power cartridges like their 7.62mm X 54R were over powered and the bolt action rifles that fired such heavy hitters had a low rate of fire. Soviet doctrine demanded that in meeting engagements their troops should be able to establish direct fire superiority quickly and then maneuver under the cover of that high volume of fire. Of course the Germans wanted the same capability but were too slow to implement the changes required in time.

The German Solution:

Was to place light belt fed machine guns with high rates of fire such as the MG-34 with its ~900 round/min rate of fire with infantry platoons. Thus the German squad armed predominantly with bolt action rifles was centered around its base of fire the MG34.

The Soviet Solution (s):

•On one level the Soviets adopted the same solution with the 7.62mm X 54R DP-28 drum fed light machine gun acting as the base of fire and the rest of the unit armed with bolt action rifles.

•Another Soviet solution was the creation of SMG battalions where the predominant weapon was the easy to manufacture PPSh-41 sub machine gun (1000 rounds/min) that was supported by DP-28 LMG and designated marksmen armed with either Mosin–Nagant bolt guns or SVT-40 semi automatic rifles. These units could send clouds of lead at German troops while in the attack at a dead run.

Imagine 20 Germans with 1 MG-34, 4 MP-40s and 15 bolt action rifles facing 20 Soviets with 2 DP-28s, 6 SVT-40s and 12 PPSh-41s. The German unit is over matched with respect to the volume of fire it can deliver. And it take less time and effort to train a sub machine gunner than an effective rifleman.


 No.2762695

File: ff0a9278e6841d2⋯.jpg (9.78 KB, 190x265, 38:53, indexммм.jpg)

>>2762681

>pic

Where i can download full pack of soviet caricatures?


 No.2762704

File: d7ad2d923104fa8⋯.png (861.33 KB, 1080x778, 540:389, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 05a5a88070e235d⋯.png (1.58 MB, 1200x1003, 1200:1003, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2762689

>>2762689

>I specified it in the earlier comments. Mine was categorically more correct, far more. Mine didn't include famine, disease, starvation and other effects, they included HR violations and direct military action.

Not at all. Your numbers were primarily on Civilian losses, on military losses you lack any such specifics. No dodging needed, when there is nothing to dodge

>AND THIS EXCUSES ALL THE PEOPLE THAT GOT SENT TO THE GULAG BECAUSE OF VOICING THEIR OPINION AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT

No, but it provides a definitive example that voicing an opinion was not definitive of the Gulag, And the statistics and sources I posted, acertained by 3 very respected WESTERN historians show that

Most GULAG prisoners were NOT political and that 97% of the population was not affected in any way by political repression.

>SUCKED DICK

definitively not, Sholokhov was a very principled and stubborn man, who was anti-soviet throughout his life. But hey, its easy for you to slander a dead man.

> you are emphasising the fact that he wasn't sent to jail really tells a lot about the Soviets

Yes because that's the retarded claim being made, which is untrue. But keep trying to throw shade, just don't forget your tinfoil hat.

>Germans also had Slavs and Jews among their ranks

Except they treated them as cannon fodder and used them. False equivalency.

>God you're retarded.

No, that's you.

> overall oppression, subjugation, and humiliation

Nope, neither ideologically nor in offical policy was this present in the USSR or the Red Army. Keep making shit up.

>it was all so swell that they built a wall around Berlin

<M-muh wall

Berlin could have been shot up by the end of January courtesy of a tank division that shattered the front in its section, only to be ordered to stand down because the big boys hadn't had their conference on how to split Europe yet.

to this day pretend that there was no attacks carried out against the SU or GDR. they literally bombed a fucking military airport and organized acts of sabotage and terror in the GDR. that's even acknowledged by western media.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/amerikaner-bezahlten-anschlaege-in-der-ddr-13440897.htmlf

It was mined, there was a trench to block vehicles as well as a line of obstacles for APCs on certain strategic locations. Plus there were guard towers with armed guards and automatic rifles. Westerners claim that those were there solely to keep DDR citizens from fleeing to the west which is obviously bullshit, the main purpose was to block NATO spies and saboteurs from trespassing into DDR territory or out of DDR territory. Actually, nobody had to flee and risk his or her life on the border. You could legally leave the DDr for good and move to the West. In order to do that you would have to ask the authorities to get your citizenship removed. When the authorities approved of that request (process time could take years though) you could just pack your shit together, hop on a train and settle in the oh so free West. I think the process was called Ausreiseantrag or Übersiedlungsantrag.

the authorities had a reason for calling the border "Antifaschistischer Schutzwall", it may have prevented something awful. It was unpopular among the general population and made it easy for Western propaganda to portray the DDR negatively. The West attempted to lure people into working in the West by paying them higher wages than usual. However the closed border between the BRD and DDR was one of the most important if not the most important strategic frontlines during Cold War. Before it was built in the early 1960s the border was open and there was free movement between the BRD and DDR for all citizens of either the BRD and DDR, yet the majority of the 17 million DDR citizens felt no desire to move to the BRD for better wages or whatever

>Pic

1) No signs of torture visible

2) Estonia had plenty of nationalists imprisoned prior to the war, nationalists who committed acts of terror and prior to joining the USSR, began the same anti-Jewish spiel that Germany had.

3) the Picture is claimed to be Tartu 1941, Estonia, but where is the evidence that it was the NKVD who did this? The Germans shot prisoners in soviet jails because they didn't have the time to handle them.

The number of NKVD prison executions are vastly over-stated and in fact, the largest execution was 714 people by Taber and Mohov, which was against orders. They were put on tribunal and executed for their crime.


 No.2762706


 No.2762707

>>2762702

no that's for nazi posters


 No.2762709

File: 99c5b35b53cb22e⋯.png (264.14 KB, 932x471, 932:471, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2762689

>copy pasta, strawmanning, and ad homing

1) Copy-pasting my own work isn' tan issue, regardless, that statement is in itself an ad hominum, you are attacking the fact that some of my argument is copy-pasted, and not the argument itself

2) Strawmans have been yours and only yours

3) ad hominum used by me has always been based on facts, such as the fact that citationless anecdotes are not serious sources, and that you are an idiot because you rely on them. Your ad hominum has been "muh evul commies"

>you're using the total number of undeployed in the Eastern Front, and the overall German casualties and deployments.

>I've had my fun with you

Already said that, yet you keep coming back, like a retarded boomerang no-one wants

>have fun supporting failed systems.

That's you, wehraboo


 No.2762710

>>2762691

Do you think politics is like Monopoly where things just change in 5 seconds? You do realize that Capitalism tried and was suppressed repeatedly before it finally became a prominent economic system in the world. Your logic is this, the first airplanes made didn't fly well, that's mean we shouldn't try and make planes. That's not how the world works you dipshit.


 No.2762730

>>2762719

>Germans would shoot Soviet political prisoners who are nationalists and anti-Soviet and decide not to use them

Yes they did, because not all were stupid enough or willing to slave under the Germans. Just as an example the total number of Soviet citizens that went over to the Nazis was approximately 300,000. Soviet Partisans on the other hand made up over a million people.

>it was decided to execute the prisoners.

Ok, but then where is the torture, what are the specifics? WHO were they executing? How do you know they were POLITICAL criminals?

>sample camp

Not an refutation, the CIA literally has every reason to make the soviets out to be evil.

>why so many non Germans had such high positions in the SS and the Nazi government

It was not very many. They were exceptions, not the rule. Unlike Sholokhov. Or are you saying that only 3% of the USSR's population were political dissidents? Doesn't that mean that people LIKED the USSR?

>need to jump higher to fly

"And if planned economies, benevolent dictatorships, perfectionistic societies, and other utopian ventures have failed, we must remember that unplanned, undictated, and unperfected cultures have failed too. A failure is not always a mistake; it may simply be the best one can do under the circumstances. The real mistake is to stop trying. Perhaps we cannot now design a successful culture as a whole, but we can design better practices in a piecemeal fashion." - B.F. Skinner

>neither does communism

You are such a bad reader that, in your attempt to make a stale "communism doesn't work" meme, you essentially confirmed my point.


 No.2762791

File: 5f0a97364fc2d8c⋯.png (4.99 MB, 2728x3581, 2728:3581, Ameri-chan.png)

>Here's Ameri-chan, because why not.


 No.2762793

File: 2d36a0c72ea586d⋯.jpg (48.01 KB, 700x871, 700:871, American critisism of comm….jpg)

>>2762761

>the Baltic states, and Ukraine welcomed the Nazi invasion

This myth again

>Germans had volunteers from every single nation they went into

True, but compared to those that volunteered to fight against them they pale in comparison.

>How do you know they were POLITICAL criminals

That's my point, it says "execute criminals" statistically speaking if for every 100 people executed only 30 would have been political dissidents.

>Would the CIA spend their time killing common thugs

Well they do, when it is necessary. You're making a false comparison, because the NKVD was more than jsut like the CIA< it was a combination of the FBI and CIA.

>cherry picking a single CIA file

<ignoring all the other evidence,

<not actually debunking the CIA article

Quality matters more than quantity. In both spheres my sources beat yours

>Sample camp as evidence

Do you realize what sample camp means you dumb fuck? You do realize that prison statistics in the USA itself do not involve a review of every single prison, unless you're doing a population survey.

>CIA doc

And? The document does not contradict my point. Not to mention that you're still ignoring the rest of my sources.

>Capitalism fails many times, but it manages to survive

Nope, there have been dozens of capitalist states the collapsed, some that became socialist

>communism hasn't

because communism as a definition has not existed, socialism has, and very successfully, lasting 3 generations in the USSR, still existing in the DPRK and Cuba and Burkina Faso.

>Or, complied because, they didn't want to be persecuted by a totalitarian regime

Oh yeah, the country that, 10 years ago, over-threw the Tsar and has a long history of repeated revolts during the past 2 centuries prior to the USSR would be totally "afraid" of persecution suddenly, despite the soviet penal system being a pittance compared to what the Tsarist government did.

>Albanians

>race

>Strongest

LOL.


 No.2762794

>>2762791

>Ameri-chan

Cute, but where's the nuclear bomb she's always waving around?


 No.2762799


 No.2762837

File: dc1c9cf7042fa05⋯.png (31.08 KB, 311x447, 311:447, ClipboardImage.png)

File: d92d6b5f6cdbe9d⋯.png (47.75 KB, 479x427, 479:427, ClipboardImage.png)

File: a549ccdf7e348c0⋯.png (2.1 MB, 1500x1200, 5:4, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2762815

>many smaller states including the Baltics and Ukraine celebrated the fall of the USSR

Nope, the Ukrainian people do not support nazis. There were 220,000 Ukrainian partisans compared to the diminutive OUN UPA and their supporters.

As for the baltics, cherrypicking the smallest soviet states is a great argumentative tactic you manipulative liar, especially since, conveniently for you, the Baltics only became part of the USSR a year before WW-2 erupted on the Eastern front and thus nationalists would be crawling through the woodwork. By your logic, if Texas was to become part of Mexico again, pro-US Texans wouldn't be acting out if the US decided decided to start a war with Mexico.

>what was the number of partisans in compared to the 70k men enlisted in the German army

1) citation needed for that 70k

2) 60K people were evacuated from Estonia alone, thus the majority of people left were the nationalists and those that had not been able to escape. The Soviet partisans in Estonia numbered 1,500 people. However that still is ignoring the fact that there were 1 soviet MILLION partisans compared to only 300,000 citizens that enlisted on the German side.

>Berkhoff, Karel Cornelis (2004). Harvest of Despair

Harvest of despair, instantly dismissed. It's not a source to even use anecdotally.

>Over generalization and taking things out of context, the NKVD executed people for political reasons, if they wanted to kill criminals they'd kill the people in regular prisons.

>Just because it piled political prisoners among the criminals and accused them of criminal acts does not mean that they weren't primarily political prisoners.

Your argument has no basis, you're saying that they're primarily political prisoners because of some retarded idea that the NKVD only handled political executions, which is factually incorrect, and statistically my statement is not an over-generalization, I provided statistic data for the gulags on a yearly basis as compiled by 3 historians, Getty, Zemskov and Rittersporn. It makes no goddamn sense.

>Gulags were not only used in 1953

Doesn't debunk my point.

>State so good it collapsed in on itself

Not what happened. You're just making shit up at this point.

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Mikhail-Gorbachev-seek-to-reform-the-Soviet-society/answer/Chuck-Garen


 No.2762842

>>2762815

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ-DNbz3wmA

LOL so what? neo nazis are everywhere including states that were never under soviet rule. Plenty of them moved back after the USSR fell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MgdUcTP-PE


 No.2763083

File: 0bf200ffbe27dbf⋯.png (692.92 KB, 550x696, 275:348, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2763074

>mods deleting posts

Because your posts are shitty nazi propaganda

>Can't even handle the truth

That's you

>COmmUnisM WaS NeVeR triED

It's a fact; Communism has never been done, Socialism has.


 No.2763094

File: 69a34ad842ddd39⋯.jpg (78.06 KB, 640x640, 1:1, can't fail without a goal.jpg)

>Uses Ukranian nationalist as a buzzword even when he claims that they supported Stalin

I have never said Ukrainian nationalists supported Stalin, I said that the Ukrainian People supported the USSR, not nationalism m8.

>The first year of the war was devastating for the Soviet partisans of Ukraine. Nevertheless, between August 1941 and the beginning of March 1942, 30,000 partisans had been organised into more than 1,800 detachments; by the beginning of May 1942, there were just 37 detachments, consisting of 1,918 individuals, that were operational and communicating with the Soviet Union.

1) You never asked for Partisans on an annual basis, I provided the over-all number of partisans in Ukraine during WW2

2) copy-pasting wikipedia shows your mental retardation. I copy-pasted my own stuff, mostly because there is no point in re-writing the same thing a hundred times.

3) wikipedias sources are

>On 28 April 1943 the German Governor of District Galicia, Otto Wächter, and the local Ukrainian administration officially declared the creation of the SS Division Galicia. Volunteers signed for service as of 3 June 1943 numbered 80 thousand. Not counting the civilian collaborators and auxiliaries.

No citation provided

Also since you love wikipedia like a good NPC,

>In total 81,999 men enlisted for service in the division. Of these, 42,000 were called up during the first 'recruitment phase' which took place in May and June 1943 from which only 27,000 were deemed fit for military service and 13,000 were enlisted.

>Why do you love being wrong?

Ask yourself that.


 No.2763098

File: 5120b766b7b173b⋯.png (147.37 KB, 689x334, 689:334, memes vs reading.png)

>>2763093

>THE TRUTH IS HURTING ME

Is that why your only response is using anecdotes written by Ukrainian nationalists and anti-communist shills? And the only actually sourced information you provide is either proving your own argument wrong or is irrellevant?


 No.2763121

File: dd76970bfa97eb6⋯.jpg (91.63 KB, 940x705, 4:3, McDonal'd.jpg)

>>2763094

>Ukrainian People supported the USSR

But everyone not licking Stalins ass must be a Ukrainian nationalist right.

>I provided the over-all number of partisans in Ukraine during WW2

>including the nationalist ones

Way to inflate numbers chap.

>No citation provided

>looks at his claim

>no citations for the 220,000 partizans

huh

Even the UPA was against the Soviets.

>>In total 81,999 men enlisted for service in the division. Of these, 42,000 were called up during the first 'recruitment phase' which took place in May and June 1943 from which only 27,000 were deemed fit for military service and 13,000 were enlisted.

And I lied where? I only stated the number of people that signed up, not the ones given status of operative, showing how much the supply was bigger than the demand.

>>2763098

>This is what communists actually believe

>This is why they fail every time


 No.2763138

>>2763121

>including the nationalist ones

No I didn't.

>No citation for 220,000

Because everytime I do you whine about it being in a language you don't understand

Here: История Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза, 1941—1945 (в шести томах). / редколл., П. Н. Поспелов и др. том 6. М., Воениздат, 1965. стр.255

Of these 220,000 over 183,000 were awarded with medals for their fight.

Citation: Великая Отечественная война 1941—1945. События. Люди. Документы. Краткий исторический справочник / сост. Е. К. Жигунов, под общ. ред. О. А. Ржешевского. М., Политиздат, 1990. стр.226-227

>Even the UPA was against the Soviets.

The UPA was a nazi inspired group with the intention of creating a nationalist ethno-state, no-shit they're against the USSR.

> I lied where

You stated signed for service as of 3 June 1943 numbered 80 thousand

Except that only 1/2 that number had even attempted to enlist by June with only 1/2 being actually accepted

> the supply was bigger than the demand.

Nope, I proved otherwise, keep bitching.

>This is why they fail every time

Yeah, fail so much that the USA has to actively wage complete socio-economic warfare every time it's attempted because it's so 'weak'. So weak that a tiny Island nation, isolated from the world, has a better standard of living than a world super-power BECAUSE OF SOCIALISM.


 No.2763212

>>2763197

>Discarded

See, this is what nazis do, every time a legitimate source is presented you throw it aside. Sorry burger, but languages other than English exist.

>What?

Read: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=923279

>does not know what the words supply and demand mean

Oh I know what they mean and the demand was for getting rid of the nazi scum that decided that genocide 100 million people based on unfounded prejudice was a great plan. The Supply was 220,000 people willing to fight them to the death in Ukraine alone, and 1 million over the entire USSR, not including the millions of volunteers in the Red Army.

> supply and demand is too much for communism

LOL, says someone who supports a system that creates shit like fucking fidget spinner tooth-covers.


 No.2763246

File: c29953e38c7f12e⋯.png (85.03 KB, 492x280, 123:70, Doubt.png)

>>2763237

>Polution index

>Cuba: High

>Amerika: Low


 No.2763248

>>2763237

also

>Sample size of 4


 No.2763259

>>2763248

>Not like Cuba is a small third world shithole or anything

>>2763246

>"Pollution Index is an estimation of the overall pollution in the city. The biggest weight is given to air pollution, than to water pollution/accessibility, two main pollution factors. Small weight is given to other pollution types."

Posting pic again since commie admin does not approve of anything he don't like my nig


 No.2763267

File: 864762ceaacbc9d⋯.png (10.64 KB, 128x128, 1:1, thonking.png)

>>2763259

>American cities have a low air polution in cities but cuba, a country infamous for not having access to shit like cheap oil or coal, has high air polution.


 No.2763274

File: 13f409d9662d1a7⋯.png (223.92 KB, 440x459, 440:459, ClipboardImage.png)

File: aaeea31a83f6f16⋯.png (292.48 KB, 500x615, 100:123, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2763259

>1 shitty infograph vs over 1 dozen different sources including the CIA's analytical report and the UN's

This is like that retarded "freest countries in the world" mpa that judges freedom based on how de-regulated a market is yet at the same time fails to use genuine statistics.

>Pollution index: High

LOL that makes no goddamn sense, considering that the USA is one of the 3 highest pollution creating countries in the world.

1st it's a Sample size of four and 2nd no factoring of Climate.

>purchasing power: Low

No shit, Sherlock, that's what economic isolation does, no matter how efficient your system.

>property price to income: High

<Cost of Living: Low

Something contradicts the other.

USA healthcare is high?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, NO.

>https://medium.com/@harsh.singh.clif/u-s-health-care-ranked-worst-in-the-developed-world-1d397cd291c6

>https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/06/the-3-reasons-the-us-healthcare-system-is-the-worst/563519/

>https://www.newsweek.com/united-states-health-care-rated-worst-637114


 No.2763329

File: 25d67d4dd22457c⋯.png (474.02 KB, 640x635, 128:127, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2763300

>jpgs and newspaper articles

Not a refutation

>communism and economics don't go hand in hand

No argument

>Price of goods and services required for maintaining an average level standard of living.

Yeah, see the thing is, thats not a fair comparison. In Cuba housing is provided. in the USA housing is a good+service (electricity/gas).

>Even by WHO, USA is better than Cuba.

I cited the WHO, you're wrong, but hey, keep screeching and posting your dead memes.


 No.2763332

>>2763300

>get told

>better start lecturing them on basic economic theory literally everyone knows

I'm surprised you haven't told him to read Sowell's awful book yet.

>P.S. Even by WHO, USA is better than Cuba.

They are about the same: https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

Considering the forcibly imposed disadvantage Cuba has, I would say it has done quite well.

Keep in mind many of the nations below Cuba are objectively capitalist. Right wingers usually reconcile this by embracing racialism and saying that economics don't work for them because they are subhumans.


 No.2763363

>>2763340

>And many nations above Cuba are? Overall more right than left when it comes to the x,y axis.

Because most nations in general are right wing these days, largely due to the dominance of American hierarchy.

>I'm off to do LSD, see you poorfags some other time

The right has yet to decide whether we are trust fund kids or jealous poor people. Let us know when you get that sorted.


 No.2763398

>>2763340

>Jpgs aren't an argument.

No, but the words written in them are.

>For you

exactly, you provided no argument for me, glad we cleared that up.

>Lying

Nope, in my sources, you need to read carefully

>Posts the same paper >>2763332

posted, that clearly points out how Cuba is literally 1 step behind the USA, and only because the USA is an Economic Giant. If you paid any attention to the sources I posted (which you don't because you are a capitalist shill) You'd see that Cuba outdoes the USA in all human parameters that matter, and not some arbitrary economic market game, since communism isn't about Markets you tool.

>many nations above Cuba are

First world capitalist imperialists that have had established industrial economies since the 1890s. Cuba reached their level in a few decades, despite starting off as a third-world country, being under economic sanctions and having none of the resources an empire like Britain, France or the USA does. As I pointed out in my mega-post, Cuba's economic drop after the 90s was due to the USSR, not longer being there and because the current Russian Federation undermines its trade and economic position.

>I'm off to do LSD

<doesn't realize that LSD can cause brain damage and that it was used by the CIA in illegal experiments trying to controlling US citizens

>poor-fags

Ooooh what an insult.


 No.2763557

>>2627978

It’s the other way around


 No.2763561

>>2651984

You should be killed for saying such stupid things. Absolutely shameful display of willful ignorance and committed retardation. The man is not a “glass ceiling” feminist you 20 year old pseud coward. You, who has never made a worthwhile impact on a single person let alone founded an entire field of study, think you have any reason to conflate workplace feminism with the greatest thing that has ever happened to the working class, simply because you don't understand how to interpret someones work? Your ignorance grants no such right. You are a gutless child, something has happened in your brain that makes you think you can write shit like this.


 No.2763692

File: 86806b20688bf52⋯.jpg (487.6 KB, 1580x2238, 790:1119, iceberg meme template.jpg)

Wanna fill this up with acts of capitalist imperialism and subversion, contribute whatever you can think of.

For example, Iraq and Afghanistan would be at the very top, US support for the Mujahideen would be #3, CIA using Afghanistan to produce opium would be #5. At the very bottom go obscure cases like potato beetles in East Germany.

Note: it all has to be factual (duh)


 No.2763716

>>2763692

very bottom:

Cookie monster / Sesame Street


 No.2763728

>>2763716

redpill me on this


 No.2763748


 No.2763757

File: feed8a7f79b3059⋯.jpg (67.43 KB, 888x499, 888:499, 1nasgq.jpg)

Wot u say m8


 No.2764327

>>2763557

Fugg off Dengist


 No.2764348

>>2763692

There should be a unionist massacre at every level varying on those killed and how many know of it.


 No.2765031

File: c5f46cf6fb3672a⋯.png (321.17 KB, 300x404, 75:101, second age of humiliation ….png)

Took a while to shop this.


 No.2765235

File: 6832a2dd2566a07⋯.png (1.7 MB, 3323x3549, 3323:3549, Grumpy Commie-chan.png)

Here is grumpy Commie-chan.


 No.2765347

>>2765235

>When she's about to be nutted on


 No.2765368

File: f6fd56c0ba4cfe3⋯.png (1.19 MB, 579x753, 193:251, posadprop.png)

quick n dirty


 No.2765971

File: 503ff321dda6c8c⋯.jpg (30.96 KB, 901x1402, 901:1402, land.jpg)

Not my creation, but someone shared this on another imageboard as fresh OC, so whatever. Close enough.


 No.2766053

File: e19b16e0fe8038a⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 47.7 KB, 1024x682, 512:341, 358014858df5e4b1d677097d0a….jpg)

>>2648454

Here ya go

>>2650366

Yep


 No.2767567


 No.2768014

File: 9a028fc7d9f848c⋯.png (2.66 MB, 1836x2429, 1836:2429, alunya pioneer.png)

I drew alunya as a young pioneer in honor of catgirl drawfriend who inspired me to draw please come back we miss you


 No.2768145

>>2768014

She looks really cute and small.


 No.2768162

I wish I could draw a halfway decent Tolstoy spurdo. Oh well, have some text I just whipped up, maybe someone can do something with it.

a gud ebenin to teh cristian fathful :DD

dhank u for democratiocaly selectind me

t. leo tolstoy

now for some reforms..

*ORDODOX INSURRECTIONISM*


 No.2768369

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STv-HF3yxnQ&lc=z23asjdhjzq2gvfhg04t1aokgz05imz15htcdeint3ukrk0h00410

I made a new Y U G O W A V E channel and will be posting regularly, here is my first vid.


 No.2769124

File: 7be96a5b652c312⋯.png (110.42 KB, 680x609, 680:609, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2264095

CountryLove template, use to your enjoyment


 No.2769433

File: 6954c5acbe426b3⋯.jpg (72.86 KB, 1141x1458, 1141:1458, resized_JPEG_1545857189520….jpg)

>Nikita (Никита)

>Just wanted to make another russian character.


 No.2769436

File: 2da5a19f3605c8e⋯.png (235.48 KB, 600x784, 75:98, 1545883441519.png)

Time to turn this /pol/ meme around


 No.2769463

File: 3061ccd51321447⋯.pdf (307.63 KB, Schenk, David H. - Freedme….pdf)

>>2763692

This shit belongs somewhere. Basically, gun control is used to take guns away from vulnerable people (in this case recently freed blacks) so they are vulnerable to violence.

>wypipo fraid of blacks with guns (many had guns from civil war)

>cops take guns away for "safety"

>KKK massacres them

>some KKK members get killed

>they are cops

many such cases


 No.2770153

File: ebd7b00bb6c6c44⋯.png (6.2 MB, 2560x3495, 512:699, 104020747392.png)


 No.2771349

File: e25c06b25ab1153⋯.jpg (1.09 MB, 1728x2592, 2:3, kronstadt.jpg)


 No.2772429

Hey guys. It's "I Punched Richard Spencer" song anon. Was thinking of big events I hadn't written songs about, and I wanna do one about Daniel Shaver. I think that image really continues to resonate. Y/n


 No.2772447

Does anyone have that Spongebob meme that's an edit of the wallet scene but with a Marxist Leninist trying to convince an Anarchist?


 No.2773160

File: 095a8d56bdb2255⋯.png (3.27 MB, 1888x3838, 944:1919, Sb-91.png)

>Sb-91

>A tank made in Serbia in 1991

>Other Information about her is unknown


 No.2773186

>>2769436

this makes no sense whatsoever. CNN is giving them logic and reasoning skills?


 No.2773564

File: 1e863bbd3ee3064⋯.png (4.44 MB, 1770x2183, 30:37, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2772447

On the booru m8, look harder


 No.2773773

>>2763692

Panama obvs needs a place


 No.2773780

>>2773564

>dictatorship of the proletariat is literal because guns don't work when fired by non-tankies


 No.2773827

File: 5048b36819f245c⋯.png (504.54 KB, 567x815, 567:815, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 9f0ea229b3e869a⋯.png (415.07 KB, 960x827, 960:827, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 9b8bfc3d30c23cb⋯.png (209.83 KB, 704x632, 88:79, ClipboardImage.png)

File: dbb4f5d5c42bc00⋯.png (252.08 KB, 674x754, 337:377, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2773780

>guns don't work

Not the argument

>muh ☭TANKIE☭s

whiner


 No.2773836

Where's the OC? It looks like anime and right-wing meme ripoffs. The only decent OC was the infographics.


 No.2773847

>>2773827

>criticizing opaque autocracy makes you an anarchist


 No.2773853

File: 656c3192bc8d606⋯.jpg (3.8 KB, 340x367, 340:367, original.jpg)

>>2773836

HOW DARE leftypol STEAL MY OC!!!


 No.2773881

>>2773847

>using big accusatory words is an argument

keep whining.

>>2773836

This thread recycles, a lot of OCs are shifted, most uploaded to the booru.


 No.2774103

>>2756104

The meme doesn't work because the amount of energy output from the explosions wouldn't have been enough to power a country for a year, let alone five years.

Just as an example, the 2nd explosion was 40GJ (40 billion joules), which is what some single houses use in a month in modern times. Hell, the yearly US energy consumption is 94 EJ (94 quintillion joules).


 No.2774241

>>2772429

Whatever, I did it -

https://vocaroo.com/i/s0ZrCh62TEM2

Was gonna do it straight, but one mic was missing. The other comes through really fucked so I multitracked the vox. Wayyy in the red.


 No.2774277

File: 70a73802c0daea3⋯.png (163.93 KB, 624x599, 624:599, anti opportunist action.png)

File: 8b0301ac9186759⋯.jpg (51.92 KB, 750x750, 1:1, blue bordiga 1.jpg)

memes remastered


 No.2774285

>>2763692

here's a good starting point: https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md

surface: MKULTRA LSD experiments, COINTELPRO, Abu Ghraib, Agent Orange/Napalm, Operation Paperclip, Snowden NSA leaks, Operation GLADIO, Operation Condor


 No.2774288

>>2774285

>Abu Ghraib

Oh yeah, and don't forget literal child rape was used as a method of 'interrogation' in this one.


 No.2775705

File: f33c1cda53e21bb⋯.jpg (48.72 KB, 396x545, 396:545, soviet_sweeping_print_21a_….jpg)

File: e568cc93ca55ebb⋯.jpg (176.55 KB, 396x545, 396:545, lenin.jpg)

Translated


 No.2775896

File: 705ab5b77dc3bd7⋯.png (1.98 MB, 1713x2999, 1713:2999, Righty-Chan.png)

>Righty-Chan

>A character based off of the political right.

>2019 isn't starting on a good note.


 No.2775912

File: 62877bdd712fd46⋯.jpg (162.85 KB, 1440x2256, 30:47, Screenshot_2019-01-01_1828….jpg)


 No.2776843

File: a71a122434f8133⋯.gif (432.32 KB, 400x225, 16:9, shaver2.gif)

>>2774241

Re-did it - this version's better, tho in a quieter vocal range and still in the red a lot.

https://vocaroo.com/i/s18nFvtSIIOB


 No.2782797

>>2769124

>>2675672

>>2710381

We need this


 No.2782828

>>2773160

>>2769433

very cute

>>2775896

very zombie-esque tbh


 No.2782908

>>2648243

An entire subreddit has been made for Stonetoss edits. It has a lot of liberal idpol sadly. https://old.reddit.com/r/antifastonetoss/new/


 No.2784371

File: e09c7446809351b⋯.png (328.9 KB, 1206x1080, 67:60, ukraine.png)


 No.2784445

File: 7fa09bf93f792e5⋯.jpg (153.55 KB, 1395x1015, 279:203, nyarome hammers sickles.jpg)

File: e28be61d4805781⋯.png (470.01 KB, 540x577, 540:577, nyarome death to the bourg….png)

File: 14859b3d5a4d969⋯.png (67.26 KB, 540x199, 540:199, protestor nyarome.png)

Requesting something with Nyarome.

Preferably having him with Catalunya


 No.2786894

File: 12f92a8ede7ab1b⋯.png (552.06 KB, 500x500, 1:1, leftypol moderation.png)


 No.2786900

>>2786894

Bitter the communist's journey, and lonely the communist's grave.


 No.2787707

File: 096ebe9e7e3f8da⋯.jpg (203.17 KB, 750x908, 375:454, jew.jpg)

here i made a thing


 No.2787739

File: ee25e458cd2ac6e⋯.jpg (195.95 KB, 750x908, 375:454, jew2.jpg)

>>2787721

That was in the original I based it on. Here, a lesswords for you.


 No.2787753

File: 54301bef361a83b⋯.jpg (274.35 KB, 902x730, 451:365, Stfu.jpg)

>>2787739

I love it. Here, have a variation of something I posted above.


 No.2789120

File: 9d824439b88e03c⋯.png (16.01 KB, 930x640, 93:64, 1547483102994.png)

File: 9b0d6570fe7a78c⋯.jpg (348.21 KB, 1536x2048, 3:4, 1547464468840.jpg)

File: 79594594eb80864⋯.jpeg (286.96 KB, 1536x2048, 3:4, DwfxCYDVYAA29gj.jpeg)

File: e5d4fa5a27fa9d8⋯.jpeg (283.57 KB, 2592x1944, 4:3, 3ec40of0zi111.jpeg)

Not OC but here are some useful images for cultivating the emerging TransBol ideology


 No.2789483

>>2789120

>all that blurring to obscure honface


 No.2789888

File: 85a957ae89fcb66⋯.png (4.1 MB, 3541x3584, 3541:3584, Skyripper-1.png)

>Skyripper

> jet plane made in 2009


 No.2789899

File: 235b4cf9d5c19b5⋯.jpg (584.42 KB, 1080x1046, 540:523, Screenshot_20190116-162840….jpg)

Defend Western civilization


 No.2789916

File: 01daed088770c5a⋯.jpg (15.13 KB, 335x315, 67:63, 1531346840029.jpg)


 No.2790261

>>2789120

>discord

Imagine my shock.


 No.2790361

>>2765368

nice, posada wave


 No.2791265


 No.2791293

File: f1fc3a4ee40e9e6⋯.gif (2.06 MB, 350x314, 175:157, 1428341602606.gif)


 No.2791523

File: 47e2193d756d488⋯.jpg (148.87 KB, 506x552, 11:12, Rhodesians-never-die.jpg)

>Rhodieboos in a nutshell


 No.2791542

>>2791523

>Rhodesians never die!

So where are they? :^)


 No.2791585

File: a0423c389847023⋯.png (273.71 KB, 1864x789, 1864:789, rhodesia.png)


 No.2791586

>>2791585

Mugabe may have been a reactionary who almost always went against communist advice but he really gets under reactionaries skin like nothing else


 No.2791613

>>2791542

They're dead Dave


 No.2791641

>>2791585

a*Glos can never do it right. They actually lost the Bush War on the ground, not only in the "hearts and minds" of the rural population. The protected villages concept that MACV tried to implement in Vietnam did not work in Rhodesia either, and they never could secure the Zambezi River border. Until the very end, there was a constant trickle of terrorists and weapons from the Zambian staging bases. Fireforce is all well and good, but they never had the numbers nor the coverage to hold the border.

They actually had a fighting chance at reaching a Western-amenable political solution by appointing the Bishop Muzorewa as a black puppet leader shortly after UDI, but Ian Smith waited too long and squandered any credibility and legitimacy that the Bishop might have had among the indigenous population.

>>2789120

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/satanic-vampire-neo-nazis-atomwaffen-division-siegeculture.38120/page-42


 No.2791941

>>2791641

>They actually lost the Bush War on the ground

Interesting, got any more information on this, as mostly what I know are the memes where the RLI suffered minimal casualties in battle while the rebels suffered hundreds, if not thousands


 No.2791954

>>2773186

its replacing one program for another.. Or something


 No.2792120

File: 4c053bfe88eda93⋯.gif (275.79 KB, 931x682, 931:682, 5233991004.gif)


 No.2793596

File: c34e4dc7fd5a2ae⋯.png (91.41 KB, 800x840, 20:21, 946d6ab42fa22d37828bad772e….png)

What is he hatin' on, /leftypol/?


 No.2793603

File: ae1c4a1512e900b⋯.png (439.09 KB, 800x840, 20:21, gang gang gang.png)


 No.2793604

>>2793603

Needs more .jpg and fucked up text all over the place I think but as a minute shitpost i'm pretty happy


 No.2793615

File: 2c9c5659dbdae02⋯.jpg (67.36 KB, 800x840, 20:21, c34e4dc7fd5a2ae882c7e00a5e….jpg)


 No.2794168

File: 29dfd3a1e4c60f4⋯.jpg (26.87 KB, 385x512, 385:512, 4208782-06VWqXhc73NPcYcD.jpg)

>Here is Anmao/俺猫

>A catgirl based off of the Black Panther Party, because why not

>I was originally gonna give her black hair but nah.


 No.2794313


 No.2794641

File: cf5dce4f1ac7396⋯.png (141.26 KB, 800x840, 20:21, ancaps.png)


 No.2795030

File: c6539d0a6dd3479⋯.jpg (54.25 KB, 680x591, 680:591, il-sungpepe.jpg)

File: 5eaf0f7d1e6cd3e⋯.png (834.49 KB, 584x1778, 292:889, retaliation.png)

Fresh memes hot off the presses. OC donut steel.


 No.2795067

>>2794168

Why didn't you give her an afro and characteristics of a panther


 No.2797202

File: bb3b8c96af108a8⋯.png (5.12 MB, 2977x3694, 2977:3694, Confident 俺猫-1.png)

>Here's a confident Anmao

>Based off of the black Panther party

>Why not make her

>I was inspired by the other political catgirls so yeah

>I'll sleep now.


 No.2797204

>>2795067

Oh right, I probably should've given her panther ears and curly hair. I dunno tbh.


 No.2797237

File: f14d3d48483188a⋯.jpeg (32.47 KB, 480x692, 120:173, WhatsApp Image 2019-01-23….jpeg)

can someone skilled in photoshop and with at least some understanding of the current political climate in Brazil make a "virgin/chad" based on pic related?


 No.2798381

File: 2fbbb230a652a20⋯.png (248.91 KB, 358x358, 1:1, SHUTTHEFUCKUPLIBERAL.png)


 No.2798520

>>2797237

>Balkenende

yikes


 No.2798581

>>2797202

cute, but should wear a beret


 No.2798738

File: c44874cfaca5e10⋯.png (289.43 KB, 397x397, 1:1, 7a1a20d.png)


 No.2798834

File: fb34e1f383f7f54⋯.png (501.18 KB, 620x687, 620:687, ClipboardImage.png)

Template to use


 No.2798949

>>2763692

Malcolm X being assassinated immediately after being de-idpoled and MLk being killed by the FBi during bis support for a strike and right before his organizing of the poor Peoples Camapign should be top middle somewhere, feds killing fred Hampton for his Rainbow Coalitiom should be mid-middle.


 No.2799527

File: 2a033890e5a84b8⋯.png (236.24 KB, 554x554, 1:1, new_hoxhaist_pepe.png)

say hello to my le nouevlle pepe le hoxhaist xdd


 No.2799532

You people realize that memes are illegal in countries like Communist China right? They couldn't even handle Xi been compared to Winnie the Pooh.

Everyone that posts memes is a secret porky and a reactionary.


 No.2799621

>>2675672

>>2684735

>>2684742

>>2693194

>>2677990

>>2710381

these are good, we need more like this


 No.2800592

>>2792120

>Patch

What is it?


 No.2800701

>>2799532

>Communist China

Pick one.


 No.2800723

File: 25367835c950087⋯.png (1.47 MB, 620x687, 620:687, kimjongun2.png)


 No.2802365

File: 1b57a981665b591⋯.png (5.86 MB, 5214x5216, 2607:2608, 803800_asykes_libiana.png)

>Here's Libiana

>A girl based off of Libya

>A Muslim world state

>also drew a tank for fun


 No.2803113

File: 6ef27f93e206b24⋯.png (662.45 KB, 1920x816, 40:17, sketch-1548878627079.png)


 No.2803124


 No.2803182

>>2799532

whatever chinese propaganda bureau cooked up that meme did pretty well.

>Xi is a kind old bear that likes honey, fuckin gottem lmao


 No.2803228

>>2675672

And give her an AK as well

>>2684735

Perfect meme for bait posts

>>2684742

Let's make this a banner!

>>2693194

> font is similar to that one

Unironically comic sans. The font in that meme is literally the comic sans style from Adobe Photoshop in the 2000s

>>2710381

Caption this (properly) to say

"US national debt" or "US military expenditure"

Or just remake the "Soviet Economy" thing but bigger.


 No.2803230

File: 1cf9a278ff77b4b⋯.png (16.57 KB, 800x600, 4:3, counteranalyse.png)

File: b48d56fd34db8cb⋯.png (13.12 KB, 800x600, 4:3, counterattack.png)

File: 2acdcb59944cedd⋯.png (15.42 KB, 800x600, 4:3, delay.png)

File: 73a427270e232de⋯.png (12.09 KB, 800x600, 4:3, Evasion.png)

File: 22ad751a922b56f⋯.png (16.93 KB, 800x600, 4:3, stonewall.png)

r9 my autistic diagrams which I made out of boredom on a tuesday afternoon


 No.2803311

>>2802365

I like this concept, I'm gonna upload your post to your /leftyweebpol/ thread.


 No.2803321

>>2803230

The counter analyse trash and evasion shit is why arguing with rightists is so miserable.


 No.2803392

>>2697156

>citizen courts


 No.2803393

>>2697156

Ok that last point sounds like bullshit tbh


 No.2803439

>>2803393

read the links


 No.2803445

File: 6c4399f6afd1070⋯.jpg (22.53 KB, 217x245, 31:35, 1519502428029.jpg)


 No.2803452

File: e62cd66711d5622⋯.jpg (12.91 KB, 200x309, 200:309, anna-louise-strong.jpg)

>>2803393

>>2803445

>So well known and effective is the Soviet method of remaking human beings that criminals occasionally now apply to be admitted. I met one such man in Gulin village. Notorious locally as a thief and drunkard, he had a dozen convictions to his discredit, till at last he went to the authorities saying: “I’m a man destroyed, but I want to be made over.” They sent him to a labor camp whence he returned a qualified worker. Bolshevo Commune, the most famous “cure” for criminals, can be entered only by application approved by the general meeting of members. It’s waiting list is so long that it accepts only the most hardened cases, priding itself on being able to make over persons who cannot become cured in any other institution. Its strength lies in its large membership of intelligent former criminals, who apply to new entrants their intimate knowledge of the criminal mind.

>Crime today is rapidly diminishing in the Soviet Union. From 1929 to 1934 sentences for murder decreased by 1/2 while sex crimes fell off to 1/4. The cause is found in the growing strength of the Soviet environment to remake human beings; the penal policy is only a supplementary force. A striking example of the play of both causes may be found in the figures of prostitution. Pre-war Moscow had 25,000 to 30,000 prostitutes; these sank by 1928 to about 3000, a diminution clearly due to economic causes.

Strong, Anna Louise. This Soviet World. New York, N. Y: H. Holt and company, c1936, p. 261


 No.2803677

File: 364a0a459f77e19⋯.jpg (26.06 KB, 617x160, 617:160, meme.JPG)


 No.2803695

Holy fuck, i never visit this thread and i just realized half of it it's fucking holodomor discussion, why didn't the mods damage control this shit?


 No.2803713

>>2803695

The thing is, we did. But anti-communists really are this dedicated to shitting up this board.


 No.2803793

File: a115a3c8c667f3c⋯.png (626.28 KB, 300x1647, 100:549, Marx is gonna say the n-wo….png)

Guess who's back


 No.2803796

File: fb371e6f47a4b9c⋯.png (403.16 KB, 488x602, 244:301, gaddafi rip.png)

File: 31186d78781f23e⋯.jpg (119.41 KB, 640x480, 4:3, gaddafi chan.jpg)

>>2802365

>moon of islam also used in the CIA Republic's flag

>no true Libya flag or emblem

Sad.


 No.2803800

File: af1447679ac9ecf⋯.jpg (45.81 KB, 604x320, 151:80, hortle.jpg)

>>2789120

>>2789483

I would fuck tho


 No.2803801

File: 30f8d9f02e1281d⋯.png (162.16 KB, 672x425, 672:425, marx joker.png)

>>2803793

Back again


 No.2803842

>>2803801

an economy, for fucks sake.


 No.2804132

File: c594c6d93269266⋯.png (2.44 MB, 1273x2545, 1273:2545, ClipboardImage.png)

This image needs to be remade but with actual effort.


 No.2804236

File: 0060e4be39c8605⋯.png (336.03 KB, 640x640, 1:1, LENIN.png)

File: 48209eb83182a8b⋯.png (151.68 KB, 640x640, 1:1, STALIN.png)

I make dis


 No.2804240

File: 74026c7832c128b⋯.png (1.2 MB, 1273x2545, 1273:2545, c594c6d932692660f3752de6d5….png)

>>2804132

USA PATRIOT Act intensifies


 No.2805248

File: cb0c5b3d286e2fa⋯.png (24.52 KB, 255x143, 255:143, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2803228

Did anyone save this image? I can't find it in full size on either wayback or archive.is


 No.2805783

File: 05b35b5aa10f3d6⋯.jpg (79.08 KB, 960x684, 80:57, DyVbQn1W0AAF1qK.jpg)


 No.2806674

File: 37d34b3dc890d22⋯.png (3.05 MB, 2847x4096, 2847:4096, Black Pride.png)

Black Pride!

>Just wanted to make a drawing for black history month

>And because I'm a black girl

>black and proud of it


 No.2806677

>>2806674

>American flag

Gayyyyy


 No.2806928

File: 9f95836af6f6b8f⋯.jpg (78.22 KB, 563x719, 563:719, redpilled.jpg)

:D


 No.2806954

>>2805783

how about grandma's cakes bruh?


 No.2807097

>>2806677

Lol, I don't remember the American flag being gay.


 No.2807098

>>2805783

I think nobody like landlords.


 No.2807100

Sorry anons, I'm in a goofy and giggly mood today.


 No.2808247

File: 62d1cc24aad037c⋯.webm (10.15 MB, 320x240, 4:3, Jiang Zemin to Hong Kong ….webm)

File: e1a8538ad68d932⋯.jpg (61.8 KB, 850x400, 17:8, quote-you-are-very-familia….jpg)

File: 02917f92f3c4c85⋯.jpg (158.13 KB, 711x576, 79:64, too simple too young.jpg)

File: a2537ddac90e60b⋯.png (296.49 KB, 602x339, 602:339, main-qimg-43f03a304c104cb4….png)

File: ece739ae761469d⋯.jpg (135.77 KB, 602x614, 301:307, main-qimg-42d7aa6e06c640d4….jpg)


 No.2808254

File: 0689b8c567fe654⋯.jpg (64.04 KB, 600x750, 4:5, blessed.jpg)


 No.2809109

File: 803b279faaef1d9⋯.jpg (192.55 KB, 1024x500, 256:125, christcom2.jpg)


 No.2809222

File: 755cf67d675dc3c⋯.webm (13.82 MB, 624x352, 39:22, Doug Stanhope on national….webm)

just made this


 No.2809345

File: 46ae0fd2bbb9ba2⋯.jpg (70.7 KB, 720x720, 1:1, FB_IMG_1549537954082.jpg)

American Political Discourse


 No.2811376

File: 30d18f828873f24⋯.gif (2.84 MB, 1000x420, 50:21, polyus.gif)

Created this GIF just now for a post on 4/k/ regarding the Soviet Polyus laser-satellite.


 No.2811420

>>2811376

This but unironically.


 No.2811425

File: 9293e1c526178f1⋯.jpg (115.49 KB, 400x322, 200:161, IWW Graffiti spooky.jpg)

Spooky enough, or naw?


 No.2811469

File: ba2793dc2353526⋯.jpg (202.66 KB, 2048x1152, 16:9, Marxforpoopooheads.jpg)

Fresh OwlTurdComix


 No.2811748

>>2811376

Link to post?


 No.2811795

File: 43980da1c93596e⋯.png (473.47 KB, 1162x858, 581:429, ideologymemes.png)

I made a useful infographic explaining the differences between right- and left-wing memes.


 No.2811817

>>2811795

too many words

the feces was really unnecessary


 No.2811823

>>2811795

Subversive, fellow traveller


 No.2811828

>>2811817

What words do you dislike comrade? The feces are necessary.


 No.2812203

File: 06181d4a3e3ee11⋯.png (262.22 KB, 636x960, 53:80, violent revolution power r….png)

>>2811469

>Fresh

That edit idea is old as balls


 No.2812205

>>2812203

holy fuck this comic is based and redpilled


 No.2812206

File: c9cd519fceb52fb⋯.png (358.51 KB, 1536x996, 128:83, ideologymemes2.png)

File: f763c1cce72c036⋯.jpg (890.94 KB, 2000x2000, 1:1, b5GGMj3.jpg)

File: 3883629d00758d0⋯.png (185.02 KB, 1200x800, 3:2, gadsenbird.png)

File: 0d5efaa0ff69f68⋯.jpg (7.17 KB, 269x187, 269:187, images.jpg)

File: 88b2d2670a29f46⋯.jpg (107.97 KB, 500x613, 500:613, secretarybirdsmall.jpg)

New version and two memes based on the fact that the secretary bird kicks the shit out of snakes


 No.2812219

>>2811748

Ah, it was just a no-reply shitpost that's in an archived thread.

http://boards.4channel.org/k/thread/40525625/what-are-your-military-conspiracies

>tfw


 No.2812231

File: a72acbe0313d91b⋯.png (235.36 KB, 636x960, 53:80, porknose.png)

>>2812203

We know who this guy is.


 No.2812438

>>2811795

Tbh, most right-wing "memes" I've seen are post-ironic, too. Even moreso, really. Right-wingers cannot actually seem to understand irony. They're like women, it's pathetic.


 No.2812456

>>2812438

>women can't understand irony

I can't say this is true for most of my female friends. out of curiosity, is your sense of irony imageboard meme references? does your core group of friends include girls? if not, how often do you hang out with your female friends? are you a burger?


 No.2812463

>>2812456

Right-winger detected!


 No.2812520

>>2812438

If they don't understand irony wouldn't they be pre-ironic?


 No.2812613

>>2711720

>forgetting Wales

;_;


 No.2813130

>>2812219

Blyat, that's a shame


 No.2813143

>>2812613

The Welsh Union has capitulated


 No.2813559

File: 96d24351ec7ae95⋯.png (1.32 MB, 2255x2661, 2255:2661, Germia Nazz.png)

>Here is Germia Nazz.

>A girl based off of nazi Germany and it's flag for the color palette.

>I think I did good with this one.

>Used the opposite angle for this one


 No.2813564

>>2813143

==THE WELSH UNION HAS CAPITULATED==


 No.2814107

File: b47cb18f8524d39⋯.png (82.28 KB, 1500x500, 3:1, clown-world-comic1.png)

New stonetoss comic if anyone wants to edit it


 No.2814137

>>2814107

What is he trying to say with this one? Some kind of forcing drag on kids or what?


 No.2814139

>>2814137

Clowns are bimbofying our children.


 No.2814141

>>2814107

I wonder if he had a fear of clowns when he was a kid


 No.2814150

File: 550515d1fa3e27b⋯.png (170.51 KB, 1500x500, 3:1, b47cb18f8524d398bec0938da8….png)


 No.2814161

>>2814107

>>2814137

>>2814139

>>2814141

The clown has a pedo code symbol on his pants. I think the creator is trying to insinuate that all clowns are pedophiles and need to be genocided.

#notallclowns


 No.2814166

File: d2df9c6d54d5058⋯.jpg (203.56 KB, 843x1280, 843:1280, 1550029508.cupcakekitty179….jpg)

>Luika The Wasp.

>Made this with one pen and a few markers and a white marker.

>always protects the hive from any kind of threat.

>Has three wings due to a birth defect.


 No.2814167

>>2814161

I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if pedos are posing as clowns but hm.


 No.2814168

File: 38a9447004d4b69⋯.png (3.09 MB, 2936x4096, 367:512, Pink Anarchist-1.png)

>Pink Anarchist

>Supports the rights for LGBT individuals

>Condemns homophobia, etc

>Also condemns pedos posing as MAPs.

Posted this on a wrong thread.


 No.2814403

File: 2129144bc1a27ce⋯.jpg (65.33 KB, 640x721, 640:721, snph6g2te6g21.jpg)


 No.2814475

File: a77113972535e3b⋯.png (42.16 KB, 318x237, 106:79, Sabotabby.png)

R8 please


 No.2814634

>>2814166

cute :3. How about antgirl?


 No.2815265

File: 50e232990ca26fa⋯.jpeg (99.22 KB, 600x600, 1:1, C8F14BF0-BA21-443B-A1B0-8….jpeg)


 No.2815735

File: d4347d64cbc4cf7⋯.jpg (189.2 KB, 500x694, 250:347, declarepresidency.jpg)

i made this meme in 20 minutes with Photoshop pls no bully


 No.2815737

>>2814107

Okay but what the FUCK did he mean by this


 No.2815978

File: 5ad6a91caaee4b1⋯.jpg (816.77 KB, 1800x1376, 225:172, ocasio_cortez_bar.jpg)

this has potential


 No.2815982

>>2815978

>Reason and logic liqueur

So does this mean that Benny boy thinks AOC is actually reasonable and logical?


 No.2815994

>>2815978

>Marxarita

So Benny can make a good pun if he wants.


 No.2816002

File: 8d6f0b300aeb99c⋯.png (694.95 KB, 1381x442, 1381:442, clownworld2.png)

>>2814107

Don't know why I bothered.

This is so unfunny to begin with that it kind of defeats itself.


 No.2816003

>>2816002

Call this one "The Origin of Stonetoss" btw.


 No.2816650

>>2816003

Wait, really?

>Hmmmmm


 No.2816651

>>2814634

Oh yeah, Antgirl. Antgirl would probably be a friend of Luika even though Antgirl is a proud fascist, since I don't think ants bother wasps at all I don't think.

Luika would probably be a communist in all honesty.


 No.2816653

>>2814634

I also drew antgirl with one pen and some markers as well.


 No.2816654

>>2815735

Iike this meme.


 No.2816655

>>2816650

Yeah, he got raped by Nazi clowns and that's why he be like that.


 No.2817917

File: bc0eaf7acd530aa⋯.jpg (71.14 KB, 600x500, 6:5, freeaintfree2.jpg)


 No.2818723

>>2816655

That still sounds like some weird right-wing fanfic.




[Return][Go to top][Catalog][Nerve Center][Cancer][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[]
[ / / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / 55chan / porno ]