Why are so many modern day leftists obsessed with gay rights/feminism/race problems even more so than dismantling this capitalist system?
Because advocating for gay rights won't get you killed.
legit based answer,im getting sick of people never shuting the fuck up about white privilage,trans-lgbt rights but doing 0 against removing capitalism and not even protesting against foreign wars but go on gay pride parades regularly
because idpol is an all consuming grey goo.
because cultural revolution is every bit as necessary as economic/political revolution
Because being a decent human being doesn't require a major finical crisis, organized militia, and can can be achieved right here, right now.
the vast majority of leftist leaders, thinkers, and revolutionaries have either been incarcerated or murdered, and the us is an orwellian wasteland of non-think and thought terminating cliches. most people growing up in the us have no idea what politics are or mean or that there is anything beyond the republican "right" and democrat "left."
so these young people see that things are fucked up, and because they don't know any better, they see gays, women, non-whites, getting the short end of the stick, and then do what their culture tells them they need to do to fix it, things like wearing vagina hats, lying down in malls, and voting hillary
which is what makes bernie sanders and jeremy corbyn so dangerous for the status quo. their respective governments are desperate to keep them away from anything like legitimacy or power, because the austerity/quantitative easing paradigm is a too-tight, poorly-knit sweater trying desperately to contain the two heaving breasts of working class discontent, and the slightest tug, like increasing minimum wages, expanding medicare, opening up the presidential debates to third parties, etc, threatens to unravel the whole fucking thing and let those massive revolutionary mammaries to burst free of their prison of yarn and bourgeois oppression
Then why advocate the enabling of a chemical inbalance (mental illness) instead of pushing for more research so these poor sick people can get the help they so badly deserve?
nigga mental illness is the result of capitalism trying to squeeze people who are square pegs into the round hole of market relations and competiton
>because the austerity/quantitative easing paradigm is a too-tight, poorly-knit sweater trying desperately to contain the two heaving breasts of working class discontent, and the slightest tug, like increasing minimum wages, expanding medicare, opening up the presidential debates to third parties, etc, threatens to unravel the whole fucking thing and let those massive revolutionary mammaries to burst free of their prison of yarn and bourgeois oppression
There's nothing really *wrong* with helping LGBT/woman/minorities. But it should come from a perspective critical of imperialism and capitalism, and supportive of the poor in general, not some booj liberal feminist celebrity making token gestures towards progressivism without any fundamental critique of society.
You should refine this argument. Even though capitalism might be the cause of a lot of mental issues in our current society, it does not follow that this makes it the sole cause of these issues. It might be the case that ruthless competition under neoliberal capitalism triggers underlying predispositions for certain types of mental illness people might have though.
You're setting yourself up for easy debunking. Mental illness existed before capitalism and will likely outlive capitalism.
Yes but there's a lot of questions to consider here especially with your last point about historicity, do we define mental illness here and now in terms of behavior? Of underlying mental processes? Of chemical imbalance? We didn't even have psychology as a proper science until the Gilded Age. I'll get back to you once I've read Foucault and his critiques.
>enabling of a chemical imbalance (mental illness)
When the DSM was first being written, many psychologists had a concern about the way in which depression was being defined. They noted that by the DSMs definition, most people were depressed every time a person close to them died. What then, should they be put on medication every time a grandparent kicks the bucket? As a consequence of this, there is now an exception made for mourning the dead, which is not considered to require treatment with drugs. But this raises a question; if depressive symptoms can be a normal, healthy response to the world in one situation, why not in others? Should there not also be a "you have a shitty life and should try to do something about it" exception to the diagnosis of depression? Psychoactive drugs are over-prescribed as a method of social control, nothing more. Has depression caused just by chemical imbalance gotten four times worse in the UK since 1998? No, that's absurd. Has the number of people living in unpleasant, precarious circumstances risen at least that much? Definitely.
>it's another shithead complaining about transgender people episode
because the CIA likes it.
idpol is the successor of the anti-stalinist left of the 20th century, funded by the CCF and the likes. idpol will never challenge the system, it will never abolish capitalism and so it is allowed to stay. the western left will always be irrelevant as long as their focus is on idpol rather than class struggle.
> inb4 trannie go all REEEE ITT
most commies right now are trans fags and are basically tumblr trolls i'm finding out.
not a whole lot of serious commies that own guns and are gainfully employed. a lot of them are unskilled lazy bastards with no education. and ofc, they blame 'oppression' all the while being raised white and middle class. its funny to me now. i used to think they had good points but i try to avoid these people because i think they're mentally ill and just using politics as a vehicle to mask their real problems.
the issue with your last sentence, though, is these booj fembots are more sophisticated than a decade ago. they read marx and speak the language, its their actions that are still indicative of deep seated liberal ideas that only paint them in a good light. they also sell their white male counterparts out every chance they get.
i can't stand these bitches
This is the case in the US because politics in general here are not about ideological debate anyway. Most self-declared American communists are just kids trying to rebel against parents, same with the aut-rights.
Why does every fucking thread where trannies get mentioned always end up being flooded by edgy morons shrieking about mental illness when it's clear they have no idea what they're talking about? Is this what passes as "idpol" now?
>All of us in modern society are hemmed in by a dense network of rules and regulations. We are at the mercy of large organizations such as corporations, governments, labor unions, universities, churches, and political parties, and consequently we are powerless. As a result of the servitude, the powerlessness, and the other indignities that the System inflicts on us, there is widespread frustration, which leads to an impulse to rebel. And this is where the System plays its neatest trick: Through a brilliant sleight of hand, it turns rebellion to its own advantage.
>Many people do not understand the roots of their own frustration, hence their rebellion is directionless. They know that they want to rebel, but they don't know what they want to rebel against. Luckily, the System is able to fill their need by providing them with a list of standard and stereotyped grievances in the name of which to rebel: racism, homophobia, women's issues, poverty, sweatshops…the whole laundry-bag of "activist" issues.
>Huge numbers of would-be rebels take the bait. In fighting racism, sexism, etc., etc., they are only doing the System's work for it. In spite of this, they imagine that they are rebelling against the System. How is this possible?
Because deep down a lot of leftists believe that capitalism is unstoppable, so they develop a kind of stockholm syndrome where they can be a "woke rebel" against capitalism without actually having any thoughts regarding material conditions.
Also, liberals aren't leftists.
>but go on gay pride parades regularly
I think you have a warped idea of what gay pride parades actually are about. Complaining about them is like complaining about straight people going to Mardi Gras. There is a "metapolitical" element to pride parades which influences the cultural realm, but pride parades are not protests. Maybe in Russia or 1970s America they are/were like that but not so much in the Western countries anymore.
Anti-idpol is when you hate trannies, and the more you hate tranneis the more anti-idpol you are.
Too bad that's not how it works at all, but I like the image.
>they blame 'oppression' all the while being raised white and middle class
>white and middle class
Go back to reddit you liberal piece of shit.
It's the socialism of shut-in morons. Oh capitalism still exists? Must be because of idpol.
News flash: Capitalism is a world-historic force that has been the dominant economic system since the end of the 18th century.
first they think that the main thing preventing socialism is white people re: "Settlers" by Sakai. They think the white element comprising the working-class has always fractured the power of said working class, and therefore stunted revolution. So they focus their power on destroying whites from all angles.
It's a remarkably simplistic notion but people really believe it.
>Complaining about them is like complaining about straight people going to Mardi Gras.
This is a bad example. Straight people don't go to Mardi Gras because they're straight, they go to it because its a shared cultural celebration which everyone can equally partake in.
In a way it he's kind of right, if people like Fred Hampton were still alive to guide socialist currents it would at least have mitigated the influx of liberal idpol we see today.
>cultural revolution is every bit as necessary as economic/political revolution
This is the reasoning that got us into this mess and its anti-materialist to boot. Culture arises from the material conditions of society and the economic systems of the time, it doesn't exist in a vacuum outside of it or is decoupled from it in any way. If you change the material conditions and the economic systems of society, you change the culture. You don't just force "culture".
These are buzzwords to you. You do not know what they mean and you have no interest in the well being of the people you are referring to.
"Anti-""""""IdPol""""""" leftists who wring their hands or scream at the mention of anti-racist or anti-homophobic activism are rightist deviations and are dead weight to any anti-capitalist movement.
>This is a bad example. Straight people don't go to Mardi Gras because they're straight, they go to it because its a shared cultural celebration which everyone can equally partake in.
Straight people don't tend to think of the things they do as being "because they're straight" – they just do it. Straight people tend to think that what gay people do has a "political" content, even when it's apolitical and just involves getting fucked up on the weekend.
Secondly you have to ask yourself: what does Mardi Gras have to do with socialism or anti-capitalist politics? The answer is nothing. It's not like Mardi Gras is any more anti-capitalist or, alternatively, an obstacle to the socialist revolution than pride parades despite being for "everyone" (though most people who go are straight). Because what difference does it make? It doesn't make any difference.
It's supposed to be means to an ends, rather than ends in and of itself. The problem is, it usually just dissolves into reformist policies rather than addressing the root cause.
>Straight people tend to think that what gay people do has a "political" content, even when it's apolitical and just involves getting fucked up on the weekend.
A gay pride march suggests literally what it says, a gay pride march. Mardi Gras, although christian in origin, isn't explicitly about being anything or having any kind of essential property. Regardless, both have become heavily modified under capitalism, especially with gay pride with most of the major planned marches being nothing more then liberal capitalist spectacle. Gay pride also lacks the more universalist aspects of Mardi Gras in respect to the community.
>"Anti-""""""IdPol""""""" leftists who wring their hands or scream at the mention of anti-racist or anti-homophobic activism
But that isn't what most are wringing their hands about.
>dead weight to any anti-capitalist movement.
Says the mongoloids whomst greatest achievement is female CEOs and subway sitting etiquette laws.
Says the mongoloids whomst lasted maybe 5 years before their entire theory was thrown into limbo after being defeated by Donald Trump of all people.
Did you not read the first half of my post? This board and places like it are filled with people who are either bigoted themselves or ignore the gravity of bigotry when it doesn't effect them. There is a position from which it is productive to criticize identity politics, and it's not when you're surrounded by racists and misogynists.
What are you responding to?
really substantial analysis going on here. you're one of our friends from r/socialism i presume?
The retard that wrote this
>"Anti-""""""IdPol""""""" leftists who wring their hands or scream at the mention of anti-racist or anti-homophobic activism are rightist deviations and are dead weight to any anti-capitalist movement.
Imagine calling anyone else "dead weight to any anti-capitalist movement" when your greatest achievement is "feminist sweatshops" making GURL t-shirts for Hollywood actresses.
what about when marin le pen almost broke the glass ceiling though? sounds like socialism to me
Remember that time Deray retweeted some white feminist garbage who regurgitated Sakais "there is no white working class" argument?
lmao this has to be the lowest low for the left.
>Why are so many modern day leftists obsessed with gay rights
why do modern day leftists hate italians?
You're not responding to me, you skimmed my post and made up a completely different one in your head and responded to that. I didn't mention anything about feminist sweatshops, t-shirts, female CEOs, or sitting etiquette, these are just talking points you're used to seeing regurgitated and it's easier for you to respond to that with slurs than actually engage with someone who thinks you're reactionary slime.
>This board and places like it are filled with people who are either bigoted themselves or ignore the gravity of bigotry when it doesn't effect them.
Outside of utilizing a class system, what exactly is the "gravity of bigotry". Because "bigotry" doesn't have any "gravity" without class.
I didn't say "without class", and that's not true. Ethnic groups will still exist in a classless society, and the racism that exists now will still exist after the abolition of class unless it is actively suppressed in the same way the bourgeois is actively suppressed. Lenin opposed anti-semitism, and rather than simply having a socialist revolution under the assumption that anti-semitism would disappear at some point in the future, he took direct action against anti-semitism as it existed in his time.
the whole conversation began because of:
>legit based answer,im getting sick of people never shuting the fuck up about white privilage,trans-lgbt rights but doing 0 against removing capitalism and not even protesting against foreign wars but go on gay pride parades regularly
and you could easily say the same thing about 'why do people go to football games' or watch movies or play video games, or interact with capitalism at all. the only socialists i see who complain about those things are trotskyist cults. but there's so much hay being made about pride parades and other inconsequential little events, imparting some political status to them they do not have and don't deserve. this is a rightist deviation.
lol the absolute state of the BABOON left
"social issues" dont threaten the govt., its funding, or other miscellaneous bourgoisie entities with sway over the course of society.
so they're allowed to survive, even make change, because actually as a matter of fact capitalism wont dissolve if more women run it or whites arent richer than blacks or whatever.
those causes are important in their own right, and chose changes are often positive, but they are like OP implies categorically less important than actual real change of the real material organization of society and not just norms and feels.
such change is not allowed to survive, for obvious reasons.
Because most modern day leftists are just left-liberals
>Ethnic groups will still exist in a classless society, and the racism that exists now will still exist after the abolition of class
Maybe, though it kind of ignores the material basis of why racism exists, but even then it wont matter as the capitalist framework which allows racism to have any actual power or means of enforcement wont exist.
>Lenin opposed anti-semitism, and rather than simply having a socialist revolution under the assumption that anti-semitism would disappear at some point in the future, he took direct action against anti-semitism as it existed in his time.
But this didn't actually stop anti-semitism if later sentiments are to be observed, what eventually led to the decline of anti-semitism was the improving conditions of the soviet populace which negated the need for a racial scapegoat. And again, if the society is truly socialist then the power relations which allow such enforcement of personal racial opinion or really any personal social opinion of the sort shouldn't exist. All social relations derive from that of the economic and material.
>but there's so much hay being made about pride parades and other inconsequential little events
Its mostly because many of those other things don't attempt to attach the label of being "left" to them or detract from the an actual class based left movement. Leftists becoming directly involved in social identity events like gay parades does pose a problem however because what leftist action is directed at and in those parades is mostly social or reform based rather then class based and revolve around the identity of being "gay" rather then the universalist attribute of class. And that's not including the general collaborationist attitude many take in regards to the politics of such events. One of the more concerning dilemmas though is that while we can and primarily do criticize many social events for being largely commodified and becoming/being capitalist outlets, it seems many on the more liberal "left" are unwilling to criticize or accept criticism for things like gay pride parades, just as one example. It makes it difficult to be "endlessly critical" within self-proclaimed "left circles" when the walls go up when we hit rainbows and colored genitals. We've criticized everything and everyone here, from every leftist sect and inclination and over the slightest minutia that we can find ourselves to autisticly disagree about. Whats frustrating is when certain things become limited in their allowed criticism or when those criticisms have to be dulled in their sharpness because the subject happens to serve a "different" social "function".
Who gives a shit if one thinks that way? T
Because people under 28 years old have psychologically damaged minds and have lost their true path if they ever really were on one.
Muh millennials Muh Boomer dictotomy is americanism and another for of muh white male idpol.
>and another for of muh
wow. Really got me there
>people under 28 years old have psychologically damaged minds
Indeed, and capitalism is to blame for it.
Capitalism wont be going away any time soon. Might aswell try to make it as comfortable for your comrades as time goes on.
they're not leftists.
>Why are so many modern day leftists obsessed with gay rights/feminism/race problems even more so than dismantling this capitalist system?
Because they are not leftists. These movements were originally (and depending on the topic and location still are) emancipatory, and as such received support from truly socialist and communist organizations (see for example the oft ignored work of communists in the South of the US). But as more and more of the goals of the movement gets realized, the cadres making up the various organizations engaged in these struggles have become co-opted and absorbed by the (neo) liberal capitalist establishment. That's not to say all are, but those that have been so incorporated by capital are certainly the most visible and vocal.
To put it in crude terms, even though a lot of the struggles associated with idpol are emancipatory and laudable, institutionalized idpol is today by and large the business of class enemies. But again, that should not discount the struggles themselves. Both pics related.
>mental illness did not exist before capitalism
I never saw example one anywhere tho, I mean not to the extent of saying that kind of shit. I don't see nothing wrong or potentially damaging in someone being in more conservative. On the other hand I see everywhere how the socially liberal tree hugger hippies are the one destroying movements, making us look bad, putting their interests before the working class or the anti capitalist cause, accusing ex socialist states of all kind of shit, accusing people of too nuch extremism and showing their true colour and supporting neo liberals when the other side look slightly bad (see:Bernie sanders, people who supported macron, people who supported hilary, blairites ecc).
Truth is that "conservatives" (again, not asserites or nazbol just people who are not socially liberal like the others) are better at being anticapitalist because their ideal and their values are at risk, if not already dead, under capitalism. While the other side is can flourish, expand and has more attention under capitalism.
The threat from social conserv.atives is non existent, if you think otherwise you are free to make examples of movements, revolutions, parties, ideologies, governments ecc. Who got fucked by them. I sure as shit can make a lot of examples when it comes to socially liberals ecc.
>The threat from social conserv.atives is non existent, if you think otherwise you are free to make examples of movements, revolutions, parties, ideologies, governments ecc. Who got fucked by them. I sure as shit can make a lot of examples when it comes to socially liberals ecc.
The entire social democratic project in the US, for one. The defection of the so-called Dixiecrats from the Democratic party to the Republican party over a purely identarian issue (end of segregation) laid the groundwork for the dismantling of the (already fairly weak) welfare state in the US during Reagan, and the subsequent neoliberal turn of the Democrats under Clinton. Likewise, the collaboration of the actually reactionary labor unions with the pro-war faction of the Democratic party against the "tree hugging hippies" as you call them was vital in prolonging the Vietnam war. Mobilizing actually reactionary people against their own class interest by invoking the specter of the Other (be it the niggers, hippies, or faggots) is not exactly new.
>McCarthy never happened
He's right, in the same way that homosexuality didn't exist before capitalism.
>social democratic project in the US, for one
Sauce me up for this one.
For the rest of what you said, I never argued against this. I'm saying in the socialist context, name one time where social conservatives coopted the organization or the party and made it a reactionary party. Except this socialdemocratic thing (which I didn't know about) it never happend that a conservative element of a Socialist organization ever coopted it and made it pro capitalism
Why would gays , feminists or non whites be conservatives or republicans? There lifestyles contradict what they would vote. And politicians do it for a votor base that right wing won't serve
I'm 18, Not leftist. and want to die. So heres your chance to help kill me. I want a painless ,affordable ( no more than $500)and I suppose quick method. I want to buy Nembutal but I just don't know what sites are legit or aren't. So if you can reccoemd legit sites or legit methods and how to attain the equipment neccesery. You will have just eliminated a opponent of yours.
Inb4 don't kys. I've made my mind and it ain't changing. Ive been to mental wards twice in a year. Lost all hope. Depressed 24/7 , not eating. Just sleeping. was intrested in a girl that was also intrested in me, But don't even have contact it's too late, No chance at getting a gf. Sexually frustrated. And i'm just tired of being a neet and problem for my parents.
So if you help, you help yourselves.
Fuckin kys weak willed faggot
Bruv at least go out in a bang. Shoot up a bank or whatever, the fewer americans the better.
Daily reminder that helping fash take the easy way out instead of having them suffer for years with depression and other shit is counter-revolutionary.
Could you stop calling them "fash"?
Is not funny, sounds really effeminate and gay. Like pinko or commie
>Is not funny, sounds really effeminate and gay. Like pinko or commie
Well not I am certainly not going to stop.
First world workers will always choose imperialist social democracy over actual socialism. I don't see how this is controversial.
those aren't leftist, they're liberals
go shoot up people that deserve it, for once your guns will be useful. Always wanted to see kissinger shot. Or else just open the forbes list of richest fuckers and shoot one of them
Thats the problem, too weak to handle a painfull method. At least bash the fash you commie bastard.
Not american and i aint killing others. i'm not stalin.
>What is an exception
>go get a hooker or try to get a thot to get laid with instead of looking for your cutie waifu
>start smoking cigarettes/drinking
>go outside and get fresh air,go swim or some shit
plus you are 18,way too young at least wait until your in your 20s or some shit, i also thought many times about a hero being in bed like 18 hours a day for months before
I'm not a degenerate although i would consider myself to be right now. I dont want meaningless sex. Sex wasn't meant to be meaningless.Age don't mean shit
I'm getting real sick and tired of you commies. Are you even commies? or is this /pol/ larping as communists?
Well now hold your horses there. Do you have any examples of socially progressive groups taking over a formerly socialist organization and turning it to be pro capitalist? In stead of, say, a disillusioned and cynical leadership reorienting the party towards social justice after the fall of the Soviet Union.
As to the social democratic "project", I was referring more to the general social democratic consensus, expressed in among others the Democratic programs of the New Deal and Great Society.
exactly. not a thousand times more important, which is how it's treated by Americans.
>want to die
Good. Consider taking some rich fuck (banker, business owner,…) with you
bruv you are 18 years old,killing yourself would be an actual tragedy in and out of itself
i also thinked about killing myself many times,like years and years off this+mental problems,fucked up health+not leaving the bed until i got sores.Tried to kill myself all the time by doing dangerous shit,ended up realizing life was worth it even for the small times i was happy(which werent,arent often but whatever)
You are going to find your gf soon or later bro,even if its just when you turn 25 or whatever just hang in there.
plus if you kill yourself the degenerates win
>What was the American New Left movement
>What was the SPA becoming the SDUSA
SocDems are still capitalist
>liberal retardation = being a decent human being
because they actually do not understand capitalism and do not want to understand or expend the intellectual effort to do so. They enjoy the convenience of commodity society and would only like to reform certain elements,and would not like the discipline of attention necessary to live in communism. Easier to be a resentful ankle biter than to be responsible. I in part speak for myself here. And finally of course no one wants to do the risky, thankless, 'dirty work' of actually overthrowing the social order.
You you have to understand is that most of this fag posturing is Marketable. Prove you're unique by buying shit, prove you're a good person by buying our fag friendly shit. Its Narcissism. Edgy tween Narcissists are the biggest suckers around. It's 2+2.
>the vast majority of leftist leaders, thinkers, and revolutionaries have either been incarcerated or murdered
nice victim mentality mr. maoisttankie1905
there are people on this board who believe this unironically
settlers is perfectly correct historically, whatever conclusions one makes should be blamed on white people and not people engaged in national liberation struggles
also the gay shit is coming from whites to disrupt working class movements
you sound like those people who shill cultural marxism on pol
stop being undialectical comrade. We need the sweatshops to form the proletariat in colonized nations.
>Why are so many modern day leftists obsessed with gay rights/feminism/race problems even more so than dismantling this capitalist system?
Nobody takes socialist planned economy seriously after the massive failures of USSR and China so leftist focus on other forms of oppression than class exploitation.
> the massive failures of USSR and China
Yeah producing two of the greatest economic powers on the planet, eesh, what a fuckup.
nice retarded post mister dick vacuum