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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Tags: leftism (CLICK HERE FOR MORE LEFTIST 8CHAN BOARDS), politics, activism, news

File: 9e783bd7a2ead15⋯.jpg (97.63 KB, 735x551, 735:551, ambulance.jpg)

 No.2521082

How can China be considered "communist" let alone "socialist" when it doesn't even have universal healthcare? Even Cuba and the Balkans have universal healthcare.

 No.2521086

File: 987de4d64db6c65⋯.png (275.27 KB, 708x477, 236:159, 8deb3d7d2b08f85298bfc1b138….png)

Let me explain

USA. BAD

ANYONE ELSE. GOOD


 No.2521088

>>2521086

This but unironically


 No.2521092

>Even Cuba and the Balkans

Cuba unironically has the best healthcare system in the world.


 No.2521165

>>2521088

This but unironically


 No.2521268

>>2521255

*dentist


 No.2521269

>>2521086

Unruhe isn't a Dengist and doesn't think modern China is socialist


 No.2521280

>>2521167

>implying the workers control the MoP in China

I guess the workers just chose to have such horrific working conditions that they needed to put suicide nets outside the windows, right? Face it fampai, modern China is an imperialist, capitalist hellstate and it fucking baffles me that all they have to do is wave a red flag and the ☭TANKIE☭s will slobber over their dicks


 No.2521306

>>2521082

It is communist in Maoist sense, the People's (populist/capitalist) democratic (within the majority interest) dictatorship (in Marxist sense)

The USSR itself only got complete social coverage by 1950s too.


 No.2521318

>>2521082

People don't call China "communist" as in having achieved communism. That would be absurd.

We call China communist because it is ruled by communists.


 No.2521321

>>2521269

He defends a lot of non-Socialist nations only because they're allied with the DPRK or because they hate the US.


 No.2521322

>>2521269

Also he had a guy from RT on once who said Assad's Syria and China are socialist.


 No.2521337


 No.2521338

>>2521337

Not sure if this satisfies /leftypol/'s standards of UHC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care

>China : yes yes


 No.2521339

>>2521337

>some articles i've found:

> wikipedia

Also since they have a lot of people, technically they should have a lot of doctors. There is such things as per capita, you know.


 No.2521340

>>2521339

wikipedia itself is an article with a collation of sources, you can check them yourself to determin validity

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/15/health/changes-coming-for-health-care-in-china-and-cuba.html


 No.2521341

File: 05416ab6e1ef711⋯.png (147.63 KB, 300x300, 1:1, 1489852519082.png)

Also /leftypol/ should keep in mind apparently cuba's healthcare system is in trouble if the government relaxes and the embargo is lifted: this could easily result in cuban healthcare professionals moving to the US for higher pay and benefits than what they get in cuba.


 No.2521386

China is improving their Healthcare system in Five year plans an for the end of 2018 they want 70% to be covered with Grade a health insurences and 2021 Everyone. 95% are already covered with basic health care and their advancing.

So China has Universal Healthcare and Free healthcare.


 No.2521462

File: f6c439f00aa13a6⋯.jpg (63.96 KB, 559x451, 559:451, Sponge12.jpg)

>>2521386

>health insurences

tfu

Soc-Dem gang does NOT approve


 No.2521482

>healthcare is socialist

burger logic


 No.2521506

File: dbf53c8bd8e769b⋯.gif (428.26 KB, 200x183, 200:183, rangers eh.gif)

>>2521082

Because large portions of the "left" don't give a shit about communism but want to jerk off to anti-US imperialism.

>>2521492

For a split second I thought that was Newt Gingrich.


 No.2521980

Would Mao have approved of most of the world's products being produced by Chinese sweatshops covered in suicide nets?


 No.2522115

File: 9aa089fbc64d6bb⋯.jpg (3.41 MB, 2692x1576, 673:394, Deng_Xiaoping_billboard_01.jpg)

>>2522015

Irrelevant. Communism should be advanced by the people, not by great persons


 No.2522450

>>2522208

The communist party doesn't though, and even if it did, a small political party does not constitute society, its just a small political party.


 No.2522454

>>2521318

>China is ruled by communists

WTF I hate communists now!


 No.2522456

File: 566db2a50a67886⋯.png (423.12 KB, 500x340, 25:17, 566db2a50a67886c7521780877….png)

>>2521318

>trot defending china


 No.2525076

>>2521082

>Healthy China 2020

Just wait, you impatient western nigger. Things take time and effort to accomplish.


 No.2525088

>>2522456

This is entirely consistent with orthodox Trotskyism.

Trotsky himself was one of the most ardent defenders of the USSR you could find.


 No.2525091

>>2521462

We have universal healthcare and it means that everyone has health insurence paid by the state/community.


 No.2525188

>>2525088

China and the USSR are completely different in economic organization.


 No.2525264

>>2521088

>>2521165

both of these but ironically


 No.2525268

In China it's possible to visit a doctor and walk out with antibiotics, cough syrup and cough drops for $5 though, even the worst jobs pay at least that much a day. The same thing in America might cost you 5 days pay at minimum wage.


 No.2525468

>>2525188

Only superficially.

The fact that the USSR was able to transition from the NEP to a fully planned economy shows that it was always a workers state. Likewise, the PRC could theoretically make that same transformation, though they probably won’t.

Either way, the evidence that China is still a workers state is overwhelming.


 No.2525495

>>2525468

well then show it please, cause as far as i know it's a bunch of oligarcs close to xi that own everything. doesn't sound like a worker state to me.


 No.2525757

>>2521341

The USA's health care system is like a closed shop. Doctors in Germany earn half as much, if it was an open market German doctors would move to the USA.


 No.2525758

>>2525495

Look at the amount of publicly owned assets in China, it's massive, way higher percentage than any capitalist country


 No.2525782

>>2525758

Publicly owned assets do not itself make a socialist state. Just because the state owns the means of production does not inherently mean workers do. As it pertains to China this is where the growth of theirs stock markets heavily indicates a turn away from worker ownership and a turn towards private ownership.


 No.2525785

>>2525757

This is something a lot of Americans don't realize about their own healthcare system. The huge influence of doctor's professional organizations in the ACGME means they are able to tightly control the level of competition faced by American doctors in ways doctors in other nations cannot. The ACGME is able to do this in two ways, less importantly this body can set the number of places open in medical school, but more crucially they control the number of medical residencies available in the US. This is of such importance because the US, unlike many other countries, REQUIRES licensed doctors complete a US residency in order to practice. So even if the embargo is lifted (unlikely now with this administration), Cuban doctors are not necessarily going to be able to flock to the US and start making bank like American doctors. So given the power to control the level of competition they face US doctors do exactly what you'd expect, they limit it in their own self-interest so they can pull in better compensation than doctors in any other developed country. It's not as though Americans are receiving the highest level of care for that money either, we just have it beaten into our heads that doctors deserve that much money, never mind the physician's cartel keeping prices high. Of course though when auto workers or fast food employees try to organize themselves to push their wages higher, they're just ungrateful union thugs.


 No.2525821

>>2525785

>This is of such importance because the US, unlike many other countries, REQUIRES licensed doctors complete a US residency in order to practice.

This is because being a doctor is considered a trade like being a civil engineer that also requires an apprenticeship and a sponsor. This is exactly how construction consulting firms can exist: civil engineers are able to cockblock any sort of project from home additions to road embankments through the power of their signature on a blueprint (which cannot be legally changed without a civil engineer signing it off once it comes off the special printer and sent to the contractor).

It's straight up a management/peons issue. Civil engineers have white collars and direct foremen who direct workers, only getting their hands dirty as absolutely necessary. Doctors do the same thing, they'll let residents handle their busywork who let nurses do the day-to-day work. For as shit as this dynamic is there is at least a ladder from the bottom to the top, whereas in other professions like IT workers are usually led by MBAs who don't have a clue about what they're designing. Which also applies to chain franchises, regional managers and vice presidents at those companies didn't need to get vetted through a hands-on skill program they just walked in from some other business into fast food.


 No.2525824

>>2525785

American professionals (doctors, lawyers, etc) are major recipients of all kinds of protectionism. The best thing for the country would be for widespread liberalization of all professions honestly.


 No.2525992

>>2525468

>The fact that the USSR was able to transition from the NEP to a fully planned economy shows that it was always a workers state.

And what does it mean if China went the other way?


 No.2526009

>>2525758

'socialism is when the state does stuff and the more stuff it does the more socialist it is'


 No.2526094

>>2525992

well it ended up lagging behind in terms of consumer tech post ww2 if that's what your asking about

I don't think china is about to attempt what the USSR did given it ended in collapse


 No.2526499

>>2521338

I'm from Ireland and we do not have UHC. You need to pay to visit a GP and most people need to pay for medical treatments.


 No.2533786

>>2521092

They used to, I'm pretty sure after opening up to small private businesses there's more and more homeless sick people though


 No.2533826

>>2521318

get out spartacist nobody believes the PRC is genuinely a "deformed workers state."


 No.2536212

>>2525785

THIS so much. It's rarely pointed out. One of the few people who have written about this is Dean Baker. He proposes that to weaken the doctors' lobby the government should strike deals with Mexico and Canada for all procedures where these countries have a track record being on par in quality with the US. If it's cheaper sending a guy over there, getting the procedure done, and get him back, then let's do it.


 No.2539837

>>2525264

All of these but in a post-ironic way .


 No.2543242

>>2521086

Which video is this from?




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