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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

A collective of people engaged in pretty much what the name suggests
Winner of the 68rd Attention-Hungry Games
/d/ - Home of Headswap and Detachable Girl Threads

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Tags: leftism (CLICK HERE FOR MORE LEFTIST 8CHAN BOARDS), politics, activism, news

File: 42fe6b3dffe8801⋯.gif (59.8 KB, 464x536, 58:67, kjútipáj.gif)

 No.2530107

A "Forradalmi Forrás" nevű olvasói körünk keretein belül lassan két éve találkozgatunk, modern és klasszikus filozófiai, történelmi, szervezeti kérdésekkel foglalkozó szövegeket dolgozunk fel.

Pár hete indítottuk a Facebook csoportunkat, ahol mémeket fordítunk/gyártunk és a youtube-ra is pakolunk ki eredeti videókat. Legutóbbi videónk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20PM_7o-Swg

Facebook csoport: https://www.facebook.com/Forradalmi-Forrás-182113419113775/

Ha van bármi kérdésetek, megjegyzésetek, durrantsátok. Amúgy magyar politika general. Szavaztál, köcsög?

 No.2530112

dutchie here, tell me about hungary


 No.2530114

>>2530112

Is poor. In any case, the vid in OP is an extension/translation/rewrite of a previous post of mine on leftypol:

>We start off with the liberall portrayal of alienated life, liberal because it's not about the workplace, in fact that aspect is completely missing. We can only assume that she's coming back home from work. For libs what is "alienating" is the over-proximity of others (awkward elevator scene where she has to politely fight her way thru) feeling that they are just one among many other, that they are in no way special. Libs I know literally hate having to walk on semi-crowded streets (rain scene), use the metro (first scene, with her shutting her eyes), or elevators (third scene with the "excuse me"s). Notice how in the elevator scene the actors are told to act completely unnaturally. When she's asking for a little space nobody responds in any shape or form, as if to reinforce the idea of their complete disregard for, if not outright hostility towards you.

>We arrive home, she is clearly tired (again, allowing us to think she's back from work) and her only partner to address is a plastic dildo sniff ("Siri").

>Hey Siri, play something I like.

>Which basically proves that she's hasn't got any kind of substantiated taste, mood-induced preference, theme she finds appropriate to her predicament what so ever. If your musical library consists of "whatever can play whenever" your collection is completely monochrome, depth- and rangeless – that is the library of the optimal omni-consumer.

>She's standing in the middle of her room, aimlessly, and rather awkwardly. This person came back from work and has no clue what to do in her fucking free time, no preferences, goals. What a completely hollow, damaged human being she is?

>She starts day dreaming while rhythmically following the music, immediately everything becomes interesting. (Accentuated ofc by the music and the fact that so far they've been using drab colors.) She first elongates her desk magically showing disbelief on her face, but immediately this newfound ability of hers seems normal to her. She whispers to the wall, then commands it to expand.

>Notice that so fat she established NO eye contact with the camera (that is: you) so here you are supposed to feel that you've found a connection with her, she started acknowledging you, in fact it is YOUR gaze she dances for. Similarly, so far the camera movement was calm if not fixed, the space explored almost claustrophobic, but now we are moving freely in and out (the wall) left to right.

>Apple hammer

>She directly points at you during her dance at 02:25 just in case you were too autistic to get these not so subtle hints.

>Mirror scene. She blows open the wall, revealing the mirror. Notice her displeasure at first seeing her reflection and her failed attempt to remove the object. No matter how you try (let's be honest, she really didn't try that hard) you can't remove your SELF from the picture. She takes this up as a challenge, expanding the frame of the mirror.

>So far the clip was about you identifying with this shit person, this they established. From now on the clip is about telling you how you should relate to your own self, like she relates to her mirror image.

>There are specialists analyzing every aspect, second, symbolism, rhythm, etc. of these things. On most of the possible content they think should be put in they do a consumer test first. Which dancer did consumer group B (youth male university students) find most attractive? Which kind of lighting made the take on Siri made had the best response? etc. You'd be surprised how horribly effective this propaganda machinery is.

>I'm fairly certain, for example, that their choice of beverage for her to pour was consciously chosen. In the lyrics the singer says: whisky. She's drinking something that is water clear with ice cubes, from an unmarked bottle. Whiskey would be too risky, too lively, going too far in the direction of un-adjusted and un-regulated consumption in excess, a "coffee with caffeine," and besides, not kid [consumer group C]-friendly enough.

>Her fantasy is about expansion. As a counterpoint to the claustrophobia of so-called "liberal alienation," her world in the song grows. But not only that, it grows spatially, with nothing to fill the new gaps. So in effect what is happening is her pushing the world away and pushing other people away. I don't mean in a psychological sense or whatever, like emotional closeness etc. but more literally, she is creating a space that only she resides and in her fantasy that space expands indefinitely (notice how in the hallway scene after she steps through the mirror there are no longer boundaries).

The original vid by apple: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=305ryPvU6A8


 No.2530124

File: 0f9029e5cae0158⋯.png (229.01 KB, 1790x1640, 179:164, 1503545465563.png)

Hmmmm?


 No.2530127

File: 5b85fb862349ee6⋯.png (87.17 KB, 900x600, 3:2, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2530107

rossz zászló, testvér

>>2530112

short asnwer: sad shithole

long answer: sad reactionary shithole.


 No.2530129

File: 6431fc1d99aecaf⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 32.23 KB, 500x398, 250:199, main-qimg-ae529d73406f1b3b….jpg)

File: b0a07e08460b20f⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 45.42 KB, 400x300, 4:3, 121218410-071300a9-b817-46….jpg)

Italoanon here.

<Pic 1: italofascists taking a selfie with italopartisans. Circa 1945.

<Pic 2: italofascist taking a selfie with Orbán. Circa 2018.

Please visit our fantastic, exciting, amazing thread about italostuff >>2528027

Sorry for not making an attempt to write in your wonderful finno-ugric language with 20+ grammatical cases and lots of zss, szs, gys, nys, ős and űs.

Btw, is Orby going full megalomaniac now?

Is based Lukács's thought relevant in Magyarország today or do communists and leftists get a lot of shit?

Also, is this guy accurate in his description of Orbán's Hungary?

https://hooktube.com/watch?v=U378QDjyblw


 No.2530135

>>2530129

>Orby going full megalomaniac now?

to me it seems he remained pretty much the same. Keep in mind, his only reason to stay in power is to hand government money down to the enterprises of friends and relatives.

>Is based Lukács's thought relevant in Magyarország today

he's apperantly relevant enough that the governemt tried to errase his writings around 5 months ago.


 No.2530138

File: c55cc892fd49302⋯.jpg (40.35 KB, 731x440, 731:440, Marxist and Fascist couple….JPG)

AVANTI RAGAZZI DI BUDA

AVANTI RAGAZZI DI PEST

STUDENTI, BRACCIANTI, OPERAI

IL SOLE NON SORGE PIÙ AD EST.


 No.2530139

>>2530138

>szabadság szerelem

stop posting that lib shit here. That movie is fucking garbage.


 No.2530147

>>2530127

Ebből van kjútipájos verziód?

>>2530139

dis


 No.2530154

File: b66b52a19af153e⋯.png (208.53 KB, 852x480, 71:40, flag.png)


 No.2530158

>>2530154

lolé, hát ez nagyon maszek volt


 No.2530163

>>2530139

lib stands for LIBERATION OF THE OPRESSED PROLETARIAT

ABBIAMO VEGLIATO UNA NOTTE

LA NOTTE DEI CENTO E PIÙ MESI

SOGNANDO QUEI GIORNI D'OTTOBRE

QUES'TALBA DEI GIOVAN'UNGHERESI


 No.2530173

>>2530135

>he's apperantly relevant enough that the governemt tried to errase his writings around 5 months ago.

Well, that would be reason enough to GULAG Orby at once!


 No.2530179

>>2530138

>>2530163

Dear Hungarocomrades, I feel obliged to apologise to all of you for this fellow Wop's reactionary shitposting. Nagyon sajnálom.


 No.2530188

>>2530179

>an actual revolution by the proletariat is reactionary

>Infact a music made by Italian COMMUNISTS to their Hungarian Brothers honoring their sacrifices in the eternal struggle of the workers against the bourgeoise *cought*nomenklatura*cought* is reactionary


 No.2530204

File: 5fa5c0619a5c03b⋯.jpg (41.12 KB, 828x315, 92:35, c61d9ed768519b5d893fc62123….jpg)

>>2530107

>Szavaztál, köcsög?

Igen, szavaztam. Megnéztem az előző cikketeket, http://forradalmiforras.blog.hu/2018/05/11/konzervativok_es_liberalisok_a_demokracia_rabsagaban , és szerintem tipik bolsi-náci írás. Ugye kábé arról szól, hogy ha én – kommunistaként – szavaztam mondjuk az LMP-re, akkor kb. elárultam a munkásosztályt.

De most komolyan, nem látjátok, hogy Orbán mit csinál ezzel az országgal? Az ilyen fasiszták ellen mindenféle eszközt be kell vetni,és ha kell, akkor igenis szavazok egy MSZP-re csak hogy ne rontsák tovább a helyzetet.

Ja, és a cikkből:

>A]z a borzasztó – igazán nyugtalanító – tényállás, hogy bárhol is gyülekezzenek szocialisták, körükben túlsúlyba kerülnek a félbolondok. Az embernek az a benyomása alakul ki, hogy a „szocializmus” vagy „kommunizmus” szó mágnesként odavonzza Anglia összes gyümölcslé kortyolóját, nudistáját, szandál-viselőjét, szexmániását, egalitárius keresztényét*, „Természetes Gyógymód” megszállottját, pacifistáját, és feministáját.

Nem mmondjátok, hogy 2018-ban nem vagytok feministák?! Én sem szeretem az "osztályredukcionista" mémet, de ez akkor is gáz.

Kép releváns: ha nem tartózkodnátok a pártpolitikától, akkor ez lett volna az MSZP platform.


 No.2530209

>>2530138

this songs proves that 1956 was a fascist rebellion that deserved to be crushed


 No.2530230

>>2530209

What the fuck, from the mountaisn to the rifle and the girl IT IS AN EXACT QUOTE FROM BELLA CIAO


 No.2530232

buzi


 No.2530240

File: 2882023a38fdbd7⋯.jpg (117.48 KB, 858x536, 429:268, handshake1_3219777k.jpg)

>>2530232

Szia, Buzi. Géza vagyok.


 No.2530277

File: 45ad60bff8b2a47⋯.jpg (51.35 KB, 640x480, 4:3, 4508e0ccd53f5599762c97fd8a….jpg)

belgian anon here, cool that we're having all the different national threads!

>>2530135

>he's apperantly relevant enough that the governemt tried to errase his writings around 5 months ago.

Seems like the hungarian government is going full mccarthy. In what way did they try to "erase" lukács?


 No.2530341

>>2530277

there's an archive that holds most of his personal letters, and other stuff that wasn't published on a mass sclae/at all. The government tried to close the archive and sieze all the assets.


 No.2530344

>>2530158

mikrópuha festék ennyit tud


 No.2530367

>>2530129

>Is based Lukács's thought relevant in Magyarország today or do communists and leftists get a lot of shit?

>>2530277

>In what way did they try to "erase" lukács?

Hungaro-mongoloid comrade here. IMO Lukács had – in total – a negative effect on Hungarian communism. Hear me out.

The first thing that would make him suspect is his ("Budapest school's," rather) following: almost all of the students of said orientation (Ágnes Heller, János Weiss, etc.) turned into liberals supporting the EU, since "communism has already been tried".

The second thing that would make his work suspect, in connection with the previous point, is his humanism. A completely moralist position in accordance with bourgeois law, and from a theoretical POV, a preference of the early Marx (still under the influence of Feuerbach, and an idealist conception of Hegel) over the later Marx.

Third, yes, the Lukácsian heritage is still very alive, in fact, I'd argue that it is the main barrier for the Hungarian communist movement to develop its maturity. The only monthly kinda-communist journal, Eszmélet – see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eszm%C3%A9let and the poem from which it borrows the name: https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~lukacs/ja/poems2/jozsef-eng.htm#11 – is a living embodiment of the Lukácsian heritage: the celebration of analytic "Marxists" (Mészáros et al., for whom Venezuela is the "21st century socialism" and who have a global model that mirrors that of "third worldist maoists"), and the celebration of "humanitarian struggles".

I, for one, welcome the death of the Lukácsian heritage, while knowing very well that the government's attack on (Lukács/ian) statues and institutions is a gesture of anti-communism.

For me the hungarian communist movement will arise if and only if the Lukácsians become a minority. TL;DR: Marx was an avid an open anti-humanist, and those who deny it are illiterates.


 No.2530375

FIGYELEM

KÁROS MAGYAR LIBSIK LESZAVAZZÁK A VIDEJÓT.

MEG KELL ÁLLÍTANI: https://www.reddit.com/r/hungary/comments/8l2xsg/mindennapi_propaganda_rekl%C3%A1m_apple_homepod_elemz%C3%A9s/

FIGYELEM


 No.2530398

>>2530344

Milyen szoftvert használolsz?


 No.2530407

File: e19c5a7ea7a15bd⋯.png (61.29 KB, 579x263, 579:263, muke.png)

>>2530114

>contacts muke

Is this cancer?


 No.2530417

>>2530230

it's a nazi song


 No.2530424

>>2530367

Nagyon szépen köszönöm, Hungaro-comrade.

We have to agree to disagree here. Obviously, you know much more than me about Lukács and his thought and you may be even right. But that's not the point.

I've heard about Heller and I know she used to be a Lukácsian that eventually turned neoliberal, pro-capitalist and all that jazz. But that is true for a shedload of other thinkers that, in a way or another, moved from some kind of marxism - or generically socialism - to neoliberalism or even more reactionary stuff. Should we think that basically almost every marxist/anticapitalist tradition is then suspect?

On Venezuela: it may not be the embodiment of an ideal socialist paradise and it has its flaws for sure, but I still support it. I think we should all be much less dogmatic on practical matters, idealism or materialism, humanism or antihumanism aside.

Also, I guess the development of Hungarian communism is today blocked by much more pressing material conditions than mere theoretical issues.

Ciao!


 No.2530436

>>2530424

>I've heard about Heller and I know she used to be a Lukácsian that eventually turned neoliberal, pro-capitalist and all that jazz. But that is true for a shedload of other thinkers that, in a way or another, moved from some kind of marxism - or generically socialism - to neoliberalism or even more reactionary stuff. Should we think that basically almost every marxist/anticapitalist tradition is then suspect?

No. As with any and all kind of Marxist traditions we should look at the inherent, or "basic" theoretical assumptions of said "Marxist schools of thought".

My point is that it is not random that nearly all of Lukács's students turned (neo-)lib. My point is that there's an inherent dimension inside Lukácsianism that propels the Budapest School's former proponents to turn towards the EU's ideals!

>But that is true for a shedload of other thinkers that, in a way or another, moved from some kind of marxism - or generically socialism - to neoliberalism or even more reactionary stuff.

These should be analyzed (as with everyone) on a case-to-case basis. What I'm saying here is that the "Budapest School's" inherent properties are what made the neo-lib turn possible; in other words: you can highlight in Lukács's work how the post-communist Lukácsians acted and thought, namely, humanism.

>Should we think that basically almost every marxist/anticapitalist tradition is then suspect?

No. Why would you? Is the "Makhnovist tradition" suspect of becoming neolib? No! Is the Leninist tradition suspect of becoming neolib? No!

The REASON for these lies in their (theoretical/historic) contributions.

>On Venezuela: it may not be the embodiment of an ideal socialist paradise and it has its flaws for sure, but I still support it.

Critical support is one thing. Labelling them as the true successors of 21st century socialism is another!

>I think we should all be much less dogmatic on practical matters

Who is being dogmatic in this discussion, m8? My point is: Lukács was a humanist fag – theoretically –, and as such, should be disregarded, criticized, scrutinized!

Real, theoretical questions (such, as you mention them, "idealism or materialism, humanism or antihumanism") are not some kind of abstract willy-wanking issues, but have ABSOLUTE effect on our praxis.

Remember, the Marxist route is: theory -> praxis.

>the development of Hungarian communism is today blocked by much more pressing material conditions than mere theoretical issues

As a Leninist I completely disagree! It is, foremost, our (hungaro-mongoloid's) theoretical stance that informs our praxis. And while our theory is humanist, our praxis can not be properly Marxist!


 No.2530452

File: b11eecbce043c77⋯.pdf (6.94 MB, Louis Althusser - For Marx….pdf)

>>2530436

(faggotry intensifies)


 No.2530457

>>2530341

Wtf man. Infuriating

>>2530367

I admittedly haven't read lukács, only read a bit about him on a basic level (and saw him in a college class). But his theories of reification don't seem very "liberal" to me. I think you might be discrediting him too quickly because of the abuse of his thought by liberals. After all, crypto-liberals are abusing Marx and Lenin just as well.

Also "humanism" is a bit of a buzzword fam, it doesn't mean a whole lot. I do like Sartre who explicitly called himself a "humanist".


 No.2530459

File: ae08fc3a387ad17⋯.pdf (53.05 KB, Althusser Magyar.pdf)

>>2530452

>>2530436

>>2530375

>>2530367

MAGYAR NYELVŰ BESZÁMOLÓ!


 No.2530468

>>2530457

>his theories of reification don't seem very "liberal" to me

Again, I must reiterate: the liberal dimension INSIDE Lukács is humanism. Marx, at least the elder Marx, was anti-humanist.

>I think you might be discrediting him too quickly because of the abuse of his thought by liberals.

You are missing my point completely. My point is that his inherent and outright humanism is the very reason that his so-called followers turned neo-lib!

>After all, crypto-liberals are abusing Marx and Lenin just as well.

You don't see avid readers of Marx turn into EU-apologists, ffs.

>Also "humanism" is a bit of a buzzword fam

No, it is a concrete theoretical position. If you can not tell the difference between humanism and anti-humanism you shouldn't be making posts about this very concrete theoretical issue!


 No.2530470

>>2530457

>I do like Sartre who explicitly called himself a "humanist".

But then again you are an under-read faggot.


 No.2530474

File: c0eb653172849f2⋯.jpg (75.29 KB, 628x534, 314:267, 0eb653172849f2dee5b1102f7c….jpg)

>>2530468

calm your tits. If you agree there's valuable ideas in lukács' works, that's already enough reason not to let his archive be destroyed.

>>2530470

>you are an under-read faggot.

>Reading sartre somehow makes you less well-read

what did he mean by this?


 No.2530505

>>2530474

>calm your tits. If you agree there's valuable ideas in lukács' works, that's already enough reason not to let his archive be destroyed.

I made it explicit already: I recognize that the über-right wing gov. of Hungary destroys the last remains of the academic tradition of Lukács as an attack against communism. I'm opposed to that.

Also, I made it clear as well: no self-proclaimed communist in the 21st century should support the Lukácsian framework, as it contains a humanist element. You did not respond to this, and I expect you not to in the future!

I did not say that reading x theorist (incl. Sartre) makes you an under-read faggot, however, I did say, that you not understanding the vehemence of the humanist claim on Marxist theory makes you an under-read faggot.


 No.2530523

>>2530505

>I'm opposed to that.

>I, for one, welcome the death of the Lukácsian heritage

thinking.png

>You did not respond to this, and I expect you not to in the future!

as long as you don't explain what exactly your problem with this meme word "humanism" is, no I won't

>not understanding the vehemence of the humanist claim on Marxist theory makes you an under-read faggot

1) In what text does Marx even talk about "humanism" being bad? I'm thrilled to read it.

2) What dogmatic fags fail to understand is that it's possible to read texts by Marx and still disagree with things he says. Marx =/= God


 No.2530535

>>2530523

>as long as you don't explain what exactly your problem with this meme word "humanism" is

Since this is a Hungayrian thread be considerate about the fact. I've attached a Hungayrian TL;DR about the issue here: >>2530459

>1) In what text does Marx even talk about "humanism" being bad?

The mature Marx talks comprehensively about bourgeois rights. Humanism is still connected to essences and bourg. rights. This is a fact.

>2) What dogmatic fags fail to understand

Lel. There's nothing dogmatic about following the developments of Marx's teaching. It's called comprehensive understating of a thinkers intellectual journey.


 No.2530560

Sum thread. Shame it'll go nowhere. Not only are we talking about a country in which the civnat government has held its supermajority for a third consecutive term, and in which a disorganized and squabbling "left"-wing has been decisively crushed YET AGAIN, but the 3 Hungarians in here are promulgating their fantasies about spreading warmed-over Stalinism among the populace.

The facts on the ground are that Communism is going precisely nowhere in Hungary for three reasons:

1. The label is utterly toxic because the Soviets were correctly seen as a foreign occupying power.

2. There is no party that can challenge FIDESZ from the left. The liberals (LMP, DK, Együtt, LMP, etc. pp.) are busy re-enacting Game of Thrones over the 20% of voter share they have left, and the hard-left Munkáspárt got 1% of the vote - and that with Thürmer rhetorically embracing xenophobic Nazbolism.

3. This might be hard to picture for a Westerner, but identifying as a Communist in public (esp. ostentatiously, by waving red flags and wearing the Hammer & Sickle) can legit get you beat up. While it's not as controversial as displaying the Swastika in Germany, it's comparable. The only people in this country claiming the label of "Communist" for themselves are scrawny edgelords like >>2530505, >>2530204, >>2530127. They'll deny it, but that's what they are. They exhibit an utterly unserious and unreflective approach to Socialism that is guaranteed to never-ever bear fruit.

Saying that you want the Rákosi-flag back or that you're against a Communist author because his writing had "the element of humanism" is as edgy and contrarian as dressing up in an SS uniform and walking through the streets of Berlin, parading an effigy of a hanged Jew in front of you, warning of the the next Holocaust.


 No.2530861

File: b2c0d956773d846⋯.webm (3.68 MB, 640x360, 16:9, A pesti utcák kövére - Hu….webm)


 No.2530918

Hungarian Communists are the cringiest people in the world, thinking they're hot shit because they were part of an empire, that no matter how big it was they had to call to Germany for help in WW1 and still fucking lost.


 No.2531087

>>2530560

>hard-left Munkáspárt

>hard left

oh fucking knob off, it's literally a pensioner nostalgia club.

>scrawny edgelords

idk how much more I can do to help actual working class people than I already do. There's no fucking point in actually organising at all. I know people who were literally beat up for attending a socialist reading club we tried to start in my hometown. All I can do is go to bloody soup kitchens and help poor people get clothes to wear and wood to burn during the winter. I don't think even an armed uprising could lead to anything here. It's not gonna fucking happen. I have friends who think Putin is socialist because he kills gay people. Hungarians are fucking hopeless. All I can do is sit around like a good leftcom and wait for socialism to happen out of nowhere, because it's still more probably than anything else at this point.

>>2530918

you're a really fucking stupid one, aren't you?


 No.2531088

>>2531087

*probable


 No.2531549

>>2530918

Why would Hungarian communists take pride in the Habsburg Empire? It's like Russian communists taking pride in the Romanovs




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