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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Tags: leftism (CLICK HERE FOR MORE LEFTIST 8CHAN BOARDS), politics, activism, news

File: 0934285a79706c2⋯.png (6.25 KB, 434x172, 217:86, IRV founding fathers ballo….png)

 No.2610374

Is there any reason we shouldn't push for this in the United States? Socialist parties will become competitive and the media won't be able to keep their radio silence about alternatives to the two cucks.

 No.2610380

No, AV is unironically something every American socialist should be pushing for.


 No.2610391

>>2610380

Sanders brought the issue up in 2016, but he seems to be very busy at the moment, or under some sort of pressure from the Democrats to not mention it. With how the midterms are turning out, I think most people would be open to the idea; it's just a matter of publicity.


 No.2610392

>>2610391

*special elections


 No.2610395

>>2610374

WHat is the benefit of runoff voting if we can't be absolutely certain that our votes are even being counted correctly? Computerized voting machines are inherently an unknown element. For all we know the past election was the result of vote flipping. How should we know?


 No.2610402

>>2610395

I think there are ways to make the computer systems more reliable, but I'm still not sure if that's better than physical ballots. I think blockchain technology is ultimately the best way that it could be handled.


 No.2610403

>>2610395

http://www.fairvote.org/maine_s_1st_ranked_choice_voting_election_clear_winners_trouble_free

The way Maine has implemented it, they have paper ballots in addition to electronic statistics

They do count the paper ballots in Australia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_system_of_Australia#Counting_votes_in_elections_for_the_House_of_Representatives

Computerized voting is not required for this.


 No.2610406

>>2610395

At this early stage though, the most important thing is getting this put into the public sphere and discussed. Some establishment representatives are already trying to put up roadblocks:

http://www.startribune.com/minnesota-lawmakers-push-to-prohibit-ranked-choice-voting/478108843/

The fundamental concept is already better than our current system for small parties, and again, we can point to the examples of Australia and Maine, among others, to show how this runs in the real world


 No.2610415

Voting is fundamentally reactionary.


 No.2610420

>>2610374

If the US didn't have a FPTP and a proportional voting system it be great. But yes I see the problems with such a system but if we truly want to have democracy in the republic we need to have multiparties and a proportional system to back it up. Otherwise the Porkies will keep putting up road blocks and other voting fraud bs to keep out people from voting.


 No.2610474

File: 6683a9387f5aa68⋯.png (103.29 KB, 287x343, 41:49, moon eating pizza.png)

>>2610374

Of course you should push for it if you can. I doubt a party of genuine socialists would get elected, but it's still better than the absolute shitfest our current system is.


 No.2610580

File: 7a9fb68cda967af⋯.jpg (486.18 KB, 900x600, 3:2, He is watching.jpg)


 No.2610591

File: 7c7ddbbe784795d⋯.png (556.54 KB, 693x697, 693:697, smoke3.png)

>>2610380

> American

> Socialist

Literally who?


 No.2610744

>>2610374

Yes, shill it to libertarian capitalist types as well please, and really literally anyone disenfranchised with the two party system.


 No.2610748

Reminder this is being used in Maine, so watch their results.


 No.2610797

File: 47d9ac3c65c6daf⋯.png (12.06 KB, 418x256, 209:128, die rich people.png)

>>2610591

das me


 No.2610849

Hello newfriends. We've had that topic several times. If you care about third parties getting seats, it makes more sense to push for proportional elections instead of any single-winner reform. If you just want a better single-winner method than first-past-the-post, either approval voting or range voting would do the trick. They are easier to explain and count than instant-runoff, and more likely to break the duopoly.

In mathematical models where voters have ranked preferences about all the candidates, instant runoff does a bit better with regards to challenging the duopoly than having a separate top-two runoff election. But I question the realism of the premise I put in italics above. In the real world, people don't investigate every candidate; so in a top-two runoff (of the kind not simulated with ballot data, but with people going to vote a second time) an outsider getting into the final round triggers interest and enthusiasm of people who normally only vote to prevent the bigger evil of the main parties or who are apathetic non-voters as long as they don't expect the duopoly to break, so it is very plausible that instant-runoff voting will actually strengthen the party duopoly.


 No.2610855

>>2610849

Issue with proportionality is that it often cucks leftwing parties, look at like Norway or Sweden where they get more than most places but will never enter government.


 No.2611492

>>2610849

Better to change than to keep the current system going, they have it locked down right now


 No.2611770

It should be encouraged but so should elimination of gerrymandering. Getting rid of gerrymandering should be easier to pass because it both hurts and harms the two major parties so it's very likely easy to get bipartisan support. With gerrymandering gone run off voting would work better. Runoff voting is actually already done in a few states so it seems it's much easier to implement state level than federal. The electoral college is also an issue but is extremely gard to abolish so maybe it should be aimed to change it. Also it might be helpful to push for proportional representation in congress.


 No.2611772

>>2610374

>Is there any reason we shouldn't push for this

Yeah, voting doesn't do anything.


 No.2611792

Vote on laws.


 No.2611888

>>2611492

>Better to change

Change to what?

>>2611770

The real solution to gerrymandering is proportional representation. So, forget about bipartisan support.


 No.2611900

File: 0a6d0c573991b1e⋯.jpg (177.65 KB, 850x567, 850:567, this post sponsored by car….jpg)

Because it would only be used to spoil third parties. California's new top-two system does exactly this: only the primary election matters while the general election is the final runoff between the top two. The net result of this is only a Democrat and Republican (or in some case two of the same party) on the final ballot. Third party candidates are thus locked out from all state offices, which are the basis of any political organization.

The more you fuck with voting the more the results are skewed to favor the bourgeoisie. Rich people have no problem with complicated voting setups since they have the time to study it and vote accordingly, poor people don't they just wake up one day to find that they aren't allowed to vote for who they want. This is also why poll taxes and poll exams had to be completely banned through the Civil Rights Act.


 No.2612078

>Thinking America was ever an actual democracy




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