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File: 4935c476ccfc09b⋯.png (766.81 KB, 627x800, 627:800, 3F30F1F7-FDC9-405A-B3E6-C4….png)

 No.2612256

>Most leftists here argue that United States imperialism and hegemony is one of the single most destructive material forces to any possible socialist state

>Many would also agree that most American workers are really labor aristocrats and petite bourgeois, benefit in the short term from imperialism and therefore don’t try to dismantle it

>Many also support the Assad Regime and other anti-imperialist regimes who may have questionable polices, not be directly socialist, but still help to weaken U.S. hegemony and should be rightfully supported for this effort

>Many Black Americans in fact find themselves in the position of precarious working class or lumpen proletariat and outwardly distrust the American government, and most American institutions

Tell me again why you don’t support socialist black nationalism for the U.S. and the weakening of its position as the dominant imperialist power anons?

 No.2612262

>tfw skin color is a nationality


 No.2612267

we do, duh

only caveat is that bourgeois black national revolution is totally impossible in America, black liberation needs socialism


 No.2612269

>>2612262

>tfw nationality is a spook in which groups of people who have some sort of shared culture and generally similar circumstance carve out a geographical space for themselves

>tfw black Americans provide the basis for a uniquely socialist friendly version of this spook


 No.2612274

>>2612269

race is equally a spooky basis for organization


 No.2612278

>>2612269

It is the same with skin color, you idiot. Black Americans mostly aren't socialist, and even the black panthers are dead. Like white fuckers black fuckers are mostly reactionary, religious idiots that need to be nuked together with their porky masters.


 No.2612279

>>2612274

I’m guessing you already don’t support Assad or any anti imperialist authoritarian regimes?


 No.2612283

>>2612279

Only as much as is needed to stop imperialism. I'm not one of those fools who thinks supporting Russia is a good long-term strategy because even if they destroy the American global empire, they'll just establish the Russian global empire. All of these different regimes and nations that aren't communist are just a means to our ends, not an end of themselves.


 No.2612292

>>2612283

Right so then why isn’t black nationalism a good means to an end?

>>2612278

I never claimed that black Americans were already socialist, but that they were in a class position in which they’d be more likely to build socialism or at least a revolutionary anti-imperialist nationalism.


 No.2612303

Black nationalists helped destroy the American left, you ahistorical mong. Groups like the NOI have been allowed to exist because they are not anti-capitalism (at least not in any meaningful sense).


 No.2612304

>>2612292

Because it's not really a pre-existing force of any real measure. The reason why we use these countries is because they already exist and have some power to them. If we are going to foster movements, we may as well just cut out the middle man and foster communist movements.


 No.2612305


 No.2612307

>>2612303

NOI was/is run by the feds and killed Malcolm, yet Malcolm and his own followers had real revolutionary potential. The FBI was scared shitless of him, and was afraid he would become a "Black Lenin."


 No.2612308

I don't because identity politics are all bullshit. Obama is piece of shit and so is hillary clinton. Most of black crapitalists are just as evil and white ones. Fuck all of them.


 No.2612310

>Many would also agree that most American workers are really labor aristocrats and petite bourgeois, benefit in the short term from imperialism and therefore don’t try to dismantle it

This also includes African american workers who have it far better than African workers, and have benefited a lot or on case like obama supported neo colonialism.


 No.2612313

>>2612305

Damn I have to laugh everytime I read something from that brainlet anti-intelectual piece of shieeet.


 No.2612321

>>2612313

Yeah I guess Lenin and his entire cabinet were wrong, since Stalin was voted into the sovnarkom for his writings and party work.


 No.2612322

>>2612321

Yes, they were. Lenin was burdened by this decision on his deathbed.


 No.2612323

>>2612303

>>2612307

This. Malcolm’s assasination, along with other black leaders during the CRM only proves my point.

>>2612304

But the point is that a black nationalist movement is still much more likely to happen than just a straight up communist revolution in the United States, the sentiment you can see even in today’s idpol, when most of the activists who are willing to engage in the most radical and almost-socialist actions are black activists.

>>2612310

Yes but they definitely don’t benefit as much on a mass scale, and since not much progress has been made for them under Obama, are even more skeptical towards the US government now


 No.2612327

>>2612323

But fostering rival movements that would conflict with our own ideology will only make a revolution harder, even if they do successfully destabilize the US.


 No.2612329

>>2612322

Yes and Stalin killed 300 trillion people too


 No.2612330

>>2612329

Purges have nothing to do with Stalin's brainletism. Did you read the linked text? Like a 12 year old was writing it.


 No.2612332

>>2612323

Yet, it were the black nationalists who supported obama, who in turn destroyed Africas biggest hope so far.


 No.2612333

>>2612322

>This. Malcolm’s assasination, along with other black leaders during the CRM only proves my point.

Not sure exactly what you're saying, so I'll clarify. Malcolm X is a perfect example of black nationalism that is revolutionary and deserves support from communists. Of course there is reactionary BN, just like there are reactionary forms of any nationalism, but there is also the flipside, which is revolutionary nationalism.

Paul Robeson was also great and a staunch supporter of Stalin, there are many great black leaders in American history.

Also recently, black activists in Ferguson (not BLM) were really threatening porky, hence the string of assassinations.


 No.2612336

>>2612332

You are a fucking idiot using Black Nationalism as a blanket term for everything from the Panthers to the Congressional Black Caucus.


 No.2612340

>>2612336

it is thought.Black nationalism is quite vague term, what do you expect though?


 No.2612341

lol no. I hate americans. Blacks are not an exception.

Workers of the world unite against americans is my motto


 No.2612342

>>2612340

It is a general term not appropriate for general condemnation.


 No.2612343

>>2612327

Again the idea of any communist movement happening in the fucking United States is a FANTASY. There is precedent for a socialist black nationalist movement in the U.S., there IS NOT precedent for a legitimate communist movement in America

The point is to destabilize America’s ability to wage imperialism fucking quick, before we approach a total catastrophe

>>2612333

I’m OP… I’m agreeing you. And yes that’s another huge point. If Black nationalism was just a distraction or not a real threat to American capitalism, then why the fuck are black activists being mysteriously killed. Why is the FBI again showing fear of black nationalism, claiming it’s an increasing security threat?

>>2612336

This. Black nationalism is a general term, but you know exactly what I’m referring to because I keep saying it. Socialist, or socialist leaning, anti-imperialist, black nationalism.


 No.2612344

>>2612307

Malcolm X was killed expressly because he achieved class consciousness and renounced nationalism.


 No.2612347

>>2612344

He did not renounce nationalism, and he did not convert to socialism.

>>2612343

>there IS NOT precedent for a legitimate communist movement in America

There is tho, the communist movement took two huge red scares to put down.


 No.2612349

>>2612341

Reactionary trash. Black nationalists were always brothers and sisters to anti-imperialists. They are some of the most revolutionary forces in America that can be energized to destroy the imperialist machine internally.


 No.2612351

>>2612333

Tbh I haven’t seen definitive proof yet that the government was behind the assassination of Malcolm X and not just angry NOI members. Maybe someone would care to enlighten me?

As for the Ferguson killings, it doesn’t seem clear who exactly is behind them. It could be the police and likely is but it could also be some Atom Waffen-tier WS group.

Indulging in conspiracy theories about assassinations is part of where the New Left fucked up. Call me a Chomskyite or whatever, but look at all the wasted effort poured into JFK conspiracies only for modern science to increasingly confirm the official story. Same with many other conspiracy theories popular with the New Left .

>>2612343

> If Black nationalism was just a distraction or not a real threat to American capitalism, then why the fuck are black activists being mysteriously killed. Why is the FBI again showing fear of black nationalism, claiming it’s an increasing security threat?

Not that I entirely disagree, but WNs say the same thing about their movement. Anything that could even just potentially disrupt the unity of the American empire is viewed as a threat by some part of it. “Ooooooh the FEDs are watching us” just isn’t a great argument


 No.2612358

>>2612351

>but WNs say the same thing about their movement

Not only are White Nats not a threat to the american hedgemony, considering they are funded by them, thier figureheads get all but a military detail when ever they want to sneeze in public.

>>2612256

>Modern Black Nat is just grape flavored White Nat with a extra dash of mysticism.


 No.2612359

>>2612347

In modern times…. Those red scares were very successful, and there is almost no semblance of a revolutionary communist movement in the United States, even within the last 50 years.

>>2612349

This, what a retarded fucking attitude was that. Anti-imperialism isn’t just some vulgar “I wanna see all muricans dead!!” It’s a real movement to dismantle the hegemony of the United States as a reactionary military and economic power, and that will almost definitely require inside resistance.

>>2612351

>but WNs say the same thing about their movement. Anything that could even just potentially disrupt the unity of the American empire is viewed as a threat by some part of it.

But they’re actually wrong. Law enforcement in the U.S. disproportionately ignores WN and far right violence, despite it taking the much larger number of lives in the U.S.

American politicians talk about WN and publicly condemn it, even then only half heartedly (“and some I assume are good people”), but then ignore it in their actions.


 No.2612366

File: 448bc956a3c9ee3⋯.png (197.16 KB, 300x300, 1:1, ACF36161-8298-43B8-ACAF-2B….png)

>>2612358

>Modern Black Nat is just grape flavored White Nat with a extra dash of mysticism.

It boggles my mind how so many leftists can easily see through propaganda about other anti-imperialist regimes and socialist states for what they are, yet when it’s black nats, they swallow them fucking hook, line and sinker

That’s not to say some of modern black nationalists are like this, but Jesus Christ


 No.2612369

>>2612351

>It could be the police and likely is but it could also be some Atom Waffen-tier WS group.

that's the same thing though

>Indulging in conspiracy theories about assassinations is part of where the New Left fucked up.

Read Lenin, if you don't "indulge in conspiracy theories," enjoy getting murdered.

>Anything that could even just potentially disrupt the unity of the American empire is viewed as a threat by some part of it. “Ooooooh the FEDs are watching us” just isn’t a great argument

The Feds ARE watching fascist groups, for the purpose of HELPING THEM. It is the exact opposite of how they treat real revolutionary groups. In fact, the REASON the Feds keep the KKK, AW, Aryan Brotherhood, III%ers etc. around is specifically as shock troops to attack revolutionary organizations. It is no different than the old Freikorps.

>>2612359

>In modern times…. Those red scares were very successful, and there is almost no semblance of a revolutionary communist movement in the United States, even within the last 50 years.

Agreed, but even black liberation is in an extremely amateur stage right now, frequently co-opted by groups like BLM. Anyway, you said there's no precedent, there's clearly a precedent. We should learn from the successes AND failures of the CPUSA.


 No.2612384

File: b5911a2da7043b1⋯.jpg (540.24 KB, 900x1253, 900:1253, JimProfitanime1.jpg)

>Most leftists here argue that United States imperialism and hegemony is one of the single most destructive material forces to any possible socialist state

Yes

>Many would also agree that most American workers are really labor aristocrats and petite bourgeois, benefit in the short term from imperialism and therefore don’t try to dismantle it

Fuck that noise

>Many also support the Assad Regime and other anti-imperialist regimes who may have questionable polices, not be directly socialist, but still help to weaken U.S. hegemony and should be rightfully supported for this effort

Sure

Third Worldists and Marcyites don't have a monopoly over anti imperialism anon. As for black nationalists, that is an interesting question to be sure. It depends since they could end up being a issue for communists in the future even if they are convenient ally in the present. This Jim Profit video lays it down pretty well actually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKOTl5veUO0


 No.2612386

Modern gringo Black Nationalism is bereft of any Communist or Socialist sentimentality, they would gladly be accepted into the fold of the liberal status quo than to bring about the freedom they constantly talk about being denied


 No.2612387

>>2612386

here you idiot chauvinists go again with the blanket statements


 No.2612389

>Fucking amaricans making a thread again and using the word for a state to mean volk again

We should nuke america, its the only way to stop the cancer. You cannot cure a cancer, you have to kill it.


 No.2612391

File: e12068bf78a6f5a⋯.png (8.48 KB, 323x106, 323:106, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2612387

Okay, retard. Tell me how the modern Black Panthers and BLM and any other modern gringo Black Nationalism movement is totally not woke libshits that think that socialism is when the state gives you free education

Also this:>>2612389


 No.2612392

>>2612389

I agree with this. Americans are obviously unable to live with other people. They are too stupid, to dangerous, to unstable.

They are non historical people who need to be exterminated


 No.2612395

>>2612391

>muh dictionary

Read Lenin for fucks sake.


 No.2612396

>>2612369

>that's the same thing though

It’s not though and that is a very serious political mistake to make. This a lot like saying that the police defending the liberal

Weimar Republic and the Nazi movement were the same. We can identify reactionary tendencies, biases and even crossover in both but to see the elected defenders of the liberal status quo and a radical fascist movement as the same is a big mistake. This is also why we should NOT protest any “repressions” and censorship measures aimed at these groups.

During the Weimar Republic, the Nazis were hit by some repressive measures by the state—not to the same degree or intensity as the communist movement was but it did happen. If some liberal city denied a far right group permission to march and then used the police to enforce it, we shouldn’t fight for their right to march on the grounds that they are an equivalent evil or be indifferent because it is two reactionary forces fighting imo

>The Feds ARE watching fascist groups, for the purpose of HELPING THEM. It is the exact opposite of how they treat real revolutionary groups.

What this doesn’t explain is why we’re not living under fascism right now. Since the government does have the resources to implement fascism tomorrow if it chooses to. It’s pretty clear that liberalism is still the preferred method of governance for th US ruling class, fascism is, if anything, only a potential method to save capitalism out of many. That’s why even Stalin went so far as to say that the bourgeoisie didn’t want fascism but in fact it was forced upon them.

<inb4 “we actually are living under fascism but it’s crypto” paranoiafuel

That’s a pretty infantile point of view imo if we were living under an actual fascist regime /leftypol/ would not be accessible to Americans and you would be in prison for having expressed these thoughts


 No.2612397

>>2612395

It dosen't change the fact that they are more likely to just carve their niche in the bourg spectrum instead of fucking creating a class abolitionist movement you fucking retarded mongrel gringo piece of shit troglodyte, theyre fucking useless


 No.2612409

>>2612397

Prove this you useless imperialist ally

Black nationalists in the U.S. have proven far more useful and ready to engage in revolutionary activity than other so called communist parties that just resort back to reformist liberalism.


 No.2612412

>>2612396

>It’s not though and that is a very serious political mistake to make. This a lot like saying that the police defending the liberal

>Weimar Republic and the Nazi movement were the same.

"Firstly, it is not true that fascism is only the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. Fascism is not only a military-technical category. Fascism is the bourgeoisie’s fighting organisation that relies on the active support of Social-Democracy. Social-Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism. There is no ground for assuming that the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of Social-Democracy. There is just as little ground for thinking that Social-Democracy can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. These organisations do not negate, but supplement each other. They are not antipodes, they are twins. Fascism is an informal political bloc of these two chief organisations; a bloc, which arose in the circumstances of the post-war crisis of imperialism, and which is intended for combating the proletarian revolution. The bourgeoisie cannot retain power without such a bloc. It would therefore be a mistake to think that “pacifism” signifies the liquidation of fascism. In the present situation, “pacifism” is the strengthening of fascism with its moderate, Social-Democratic wing pushed into the forefront."

- Stalin

>During the Weimar Republic, the Nazis were hit by some repressive measures by the state—not to the same degree or intensity as the communist movement was but it did happen.

Most of this was sheep-dipping, if you throw some fash into prison for a year they get more cred and they can build rapport with jailed lumpens. Hitler spent a year in prison where he lived in luxury.

>What this doesn’t explain is why we’re not living under fascism right now.

yeah we are


 No.2612423

>>2612412

>yeah we are

Why aren’t you in prison then?


 No.2612432

>>2612423

Because:

- 8chan shitposters are not a threat worth cracking down on right now (unlike the millions of working class Americans in prison, including hundreds of political prisoners)

- The Feds always bide their time, they deliberately allow communists to organize in relative comfort so that it's easy to keep track of them. Then when they get to a certain stage, the Feds come in and get them. Lenin described this very accurately in WITBD and LWC:ID


 No.2612434

>>2612256

Go by what Huey Newton said about black nationalism. There is revolutionary and reactionary black nationalism, The former needing to be communist and the ladder is anything else. Now of days most black nationalist groups are reactionary.

To quote newton:

>There are two kinds of nationalism,revolutionary nationalism and reactionary nationalism .Revolutionary nationalism is first dependent upon a people's revolution with the end goal being the people in power.Therefore to be a revolutionary nationalist you would by necessity have to be a socialist. If you are a reactionary nationalist you are not a socialist and your end goal is the oppression of the people.Cultural nationalism, or pork chop nationalism, as I sometimes call it, is basically a problem of having the wrong political perspective. It seems to be a reaction instead of responding to political oppression. The cultural nationalists are concerned with returning to the old African culture and thereby regaining their identity and freedom. In other words, they feel that the African culture will automatically bring political freedom . Many times cultural nationalists fall into line as reactionary nationalists

>Papa Doe in Haiti is an excellent example of reactionary nationalism . He oppresses the people but he does promote the African culture . He's against anything other than Black, which on the surface seems very good, but for him it is only to mislead the people. He merely kicked out the racists and replaced them with himself as the oppressor .Many of the nationalists in this country seem to desire the

same ends.The Black Panther Party, which is a revolutionary group of Black people, realizes that we have to have an identity . We have to realize ourBlack heritage in order to give us strength to move on and progress. But as far as returning to the old African culture, it's unnecessary andit's not advantageous in many repsects. We believe that culture itself will not liberate us. We're going to need some

stronger stuff.


 No.2612447

>>2612409

Their whole platform stems from being included into the liberal bourgeoisie plan you driveling mut, just because they protest does not mean they arent reactionary liberals.


 No.2612453

>>2612447

Again, with your chauvinist petite bourgeois generalization of Black Nats that the daddy U.S. government taught you.

>>2612448

Read the thread before you comment dumb shit like this


 No.2612454

>>2612434

BASED fucking Huey


 No.2612456

>>2612448

<White nationalism wants an ethnostate so black nationalism also wants an ethnostate.

Wow. This is the most liberal take in this thread.


 No.2612471

>>2612462

>the majority of black nationalists in America are just petit bourjs trying to be accepted into the system

So are the majority of feminists, so-called democratic "socialists", and other leftist movements in the US. Even if the majority of people in those movements are reactionaries, that doesn't mean the radical portions of black nationalism which is informed by socialist principles and strongly anti-imperialist/fascist/racist is useless. It's the most potent form of radical leftism in the US throughout its history and it has the potential to be a force to agitate the system to its knees.


 No.2612474

>>2612434

Only worthwhile post in the thread


 No.2612507

>Even if the majority of people in those movements are reactionaries, that doesn't mean the radical portions of black nationalism which is informed by socialist principles and strongly anti-imperialist/fascist/racist is useless. It's the most potent form of radical leftism in the US throughout its history and it has the potential to be a force to agitate the system to its knees.

This. This is the most important point to make. Consistently, as the population within the U.S. almost universally exposed to the most raw antagonisms of capitalism, the black nationalists have also been the most active, the most MILITANT. So much so that even casually, within the shambles that U.S. far left is in, their typical language is still finds common usage in black culture, in that term, militant. You describe anyone as ‘militant’, and it brings to mind the activism and genuine socialist projects of the past. The Black Panthers and their free lunch programs and revolutionary self-education. Hell even when we look at gangs this persists. In the prisons, especially in Southern California, the main black gang within that prison system is the Black Guerilla Family, a group that began as Marxist organization to retain dignity in prison. If there is any demographic within the U.S. that’s receptive at all to far left ideals and policies, on a mass scale, it’s black Americans.


 No.2612551

>>2612507

who are you quoting


 No.2612554

OP has a point, but I don't think any group in Burgerland right now is unironically working to topple the US state, well funnily enough groups like atomwaffen actually in recent years have done more unironic terrorism, along with the fed bombings, twin towers etc.


 No.2612555

>>2612554

Any left wing group*


 No.2612558

>>2612471

>>2612551

My bad

>>2612554

Well no shit. Any black nationalist knows that if they did that, every fed in their fucking state would kick the door down and blow him away. Not many of them ever openly talked about directly toppling the U.S. government, but had various ideas of what should be done in the U.S.


 No.2612589

>>2612453

>Again, with your chauvinist petite bourgeois generalization of Black Nats that the daddy U.S. government taught you.

No, gringo, the US hasn't taught me anything because i don't live there. So stfu you useless fucking liberal, show me one fucking modern day gringo black nationalism group that espouses marxist philosophy in their modus operandi


 No.2612590

File: b9d6891d8dba0e9⋯.jpg (5.41 KB, 160x213, 160:213, why though.jpg)

>>2612587

your shit is retarded please leave or learn


 No.2612708

>>2612589

>No, gringo, the US hasn't taught me anything because i don't live there.

>thinking U.S. propaganda doesn’t reach you even tho you probably live in what is essentially a U.S. puppet state

>So stfu you useless fucking liberal, show me one fucking modern day gringo black nationalism group that espouses marxist philosophy in their modus operandi

Again with this fucking shit. “I hate America, fuck burgers blah blah blah”.

>Actual chance to destabilize the United States imperialist machine appears but it’s not clearly 100% Marxist

N-n GRINGO NO

Fucking pathetic.


 No.2612717

>>2612708

>liberals will destabilize the gringo war machine

burger confirmed


 No.2612729

>>2612717

>liberals

>black nationalism

My god so this is what Chavez had to deal with


 No.2612737

>>2612729

They support the capitalist order, by definition they are liberals you ahistorical mutt


 No.2612742

>>2612737

Do you support Assad in his anti-imperialist struggle?


 No.2612744

File: 796c913c1849979⋯.png (292.49 KB, 638x655, 638:655, haha_lmao.png)

>>2612742

Modern day gringo Black Nationalist groups do not espouse any desire to end the USA just be integrated as equals into the bourg class. Any leftist sentiment was shot out of them 40 years ago. Whats so fucking hard to understand about that your fucking burger?

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.2612758

File: fc6a65c5656ec06⋯.jpg (75.77 KB, 436x654, 2:3, IMG_3607.CR2.jpg)

Minorities are inherently more prone to radicalization than most whites for they have felt the heel of the boot


 No.2612759

File: fc6a65c5656ec06⋯.jpg (75.77 KB, 436x654, 2:3, IMG_3607.CR2.jpg)

Minorities are inherently more prone to radicalization than most whites for they have felt the heel of the boot


 No.2612774

>>2612256

>white nationalism bad

>black nationalism good

lol


 No.2612776

>>2612349

And then they'll turn on anyone who isn't black because they are racial nationalists and supremacists.


 No.2612847

>>2612744

>Modern day gringo Black Nationalist groups do not espouse any desire to end the USA just be integrated as equals into the bourg class.

Lmfao what the fuck. What do you think black nationalist even means you dumb little fuck? Do you think Obama was a black nationalist?

>Any leftist sentiment was shot out of them 40 years ago

Completely false, black nats have consistently been suppressed, but they’ve never fully haven up. Even in the prisons they kept their sentiments. And all it would take is to radicalize them and revitalize the movement to deal a blow to imperialism by attacking it at home, yet you wanna make assumptions about a movement in a country you don’t even live in, because you’re not actually anti-imperialist.

>>2612776

Absolute autism, actually read the rest of the thread


 No.2612864

>>2612759

>>2612758

>Minorities are inherently more…

spooky statement


 No.2612868

>>2612864

You know what he meant. Not inherent in the sense that there’s some quasi spiritual idea of an ‘eternal black’ always being kept down by the ‘eternal white’, rather the material conditions faced by minorities in the USA are built into its framework, economically, legally, and culturally.


 No.2612871

What makes you think black nationalists will do a better job at destabilizing the USA than Donald Trump is already doing lol


 No.2612879

>>2612871

Whynotboth.gif


 No.2612932

>>2612868

precisely


 No.2612962

Wow this thread still hasn't been taken down by the mods and OP still hasn't been banned good for him.


 No.2613002

>>2612962

I mean we literally have a black power and black nationalist flag

There’s nothing wrong with anti-imperialist progressive nationalism


 No.2613007

>>2613002

>we literally have a black power and black nationalist flag

We have lots of shitposting flags that get taken seriously by faggots


 No.2613012

File: 6ae87bbd189db1f⋯.png (325.08 KB, 500x500, 1:1, 1438189800817.png)

I'd probably just support the Black Hebrew Israelites for laughs


 No.2613016

>>2612342

To a degree yes, but majority of people who identity as black nationalist support obama and scumbags like that, and they deserve condemnation.

>>2612758

give at least one example.


 No.2613023

>>2612759

That really depends on the minority.


 No.2613089

I think Black Nationalism if they wanted it would be good from a leninist perspective. Lenin was OK with ethnic nationalism for people who have been historically oppressed. The difference between Black and White nationalism is that Black nationalism is escaping oppression and is not based on racial theories, whereas white nationalism is a tool of imperialism.


 No.2613093

>>2613089

I have the hardest time trying to get across this nuance to people who cry about "but why is muh white pride/nationalism bad of the blacks can have it?" all of the time. Any tips?


 No.2613106

>>2613093

Well, I don't know, I'm not an expert on debate, but saying "well if white nationalism is bad, then black nationalism is!" are just using fallacious reasoning. The problem is that they are using an accident of language to compare two things that aren't the same. Black/North Korean/whatever nationalism isn't the same as white nationalism because these are based on liberation from imperialism. White nationalism on the other hand is a tool of imperialism, the "whites" in that term really means the white bourgeoisie. Hitler didn't give one single fuck about the millions of white proletarians he sent to die for industrialists. Its like Irish nationalism for example, the IRA was Irish nationalist, but they were anti-racists. Their nationalism was a tool to fight back against the British, not a tool used to convince other Irish people to go into other people's lands and kill them and take all their shit for the bourgeois.

And thats only if they want Black nationalism, not a lot of black socialists these days are black nationalists.


 No.2613110

>>2613106

*aren't black nationalists


 No.2613221

>>2613012

nah they are Feds


 No.2613222

Black nationalism is a progressive force, I don’t know why no one understands thie


 No.2613224

>>2613222

becouse obama and other rich black aholes


 No.2613450

>>2613224

>Obama was a black nationalist

>>2613440

>All nationalism is ethnonationalisn, the IRA wanted an Irish state with second class citizenship for non Irish people

This is the state of the left


 No.2613451

>>2613440

Ultra-left retard detected


 No.2613485

>>2613450

>All nationalism is ethnonationalisn, the IRA wanted an Irish state with second class citizenship for non Irish people

Given that the "non-irish people" they were fighting against once fucking killed 25% of their population for no other reason than greed, can you blame them?


 No.2613487

>>2613485

Yes, because this highlights a fundamental problem with nationalism: it rejects the very notion of hypocrisy. Yes, the Anglo occupiers deserved a bullet to the head, but it wasn't because they were fucking Anglos.


 No.2613612

>>2613487

But the Irish never killed them just because they were British, it was the nature of their relationship that made it necessary for them to fight the anglos.


 No.2614987

>>2614980

It’s a new take on an old strategy. Basically, it would South Africanize the United States, freedom of movement within US borders would be greatly restricted which also affects the ability of the working class to win better conditions for itself.

Naturally, the white nation would have the most land and most wealth, resources etc. I think it’s also worth noting that the US was also multi-racial but it’s ruling class used race in a more overt way to maintain results.

Your comment does assume a lot of things too. You take white supremacists at their word at just wanting a separate ethnostate when in reality their bible (the turner diaries) in addition to other White nat lit attests to a desire to ethnically cleanse and take non-white lands when they get the chance.

Even Spencer is on record advocating white imperialism, a pan-white superstate, and black genocide.


 No.2614994

>>2613450

Obama was supported by black nationalists, and there are many reactionaries who consider themselves black nationalist


 No.2614995

>>2614987

Spencer is so far Right economically that he thinks Highways are Socialist.


 No.2615047

>>2614995

He is? I thought I remember him pushing some "whites only" socialism shit like a lot of them do.


 No.2615076

>labor aristocrats and petite bourgeois, benefit in the short term from imperialism and therefore don’t try to dismantle it

the impotent cries of third worldist revisionist that never studied Lenin and jerk off to fantasies of "violent revolution" without wanting to put the tedious daily work into getting there first

but yeah, i bet you the proletariat of the exploited dependent nations are doing so much better right now, like Greece in the EU with mass poverty, or Venezuela under siege of US imperialism, both of which just spontaneously went hard left ML revolutionary and totally don't have socdem leadership

oh wait, nevermind

third worldists are just fucking retarded, period


 No.2615105

File: 59d0bac2deac723⋯.png (26.3 KB, 618x264, 103:44, Highways are Socialist.png)


 No.2615109

>>2612256

Because we went through this in the sixties. The black panthers decided nationalism was way to narrow of a focus, and instead became international revolutionary anti-imperialist.


 No.2615132

File: b9c5a1e7873995c⋯.jpg (72.56 KB, 657x444, 219:148, 1IU7qIa.jpg)

>>2615105

>cities are the center of culture

>america

>culture


 No.2615145

>>2615144

>compared to "third world"

first, third world doesn't exist

it's retarded revisionist speak for "exploited and dependent nation"

second they haven't revolted due to the lack of a disciplined Marxist Leninist party

your comparison doesn't explain, for example why there is still no abandoning of social democracy in Venezuela, and your shit and is a complete strawman

come back when you have a fucking argument, third worldist faggot


 No.2615152

File: 90f067d26f84916⋯.jpeg (16.76 KB, 211x239, 211:239, download (17).jpeg)

>>2615132

The idea that Americans dont have culture, usually espoused by europeans, has always been pretty funny to me.

The reason being that the truth is that American culture has become so globally dominant and succesful that practically every single culture in the world to some degree or another has become Americanized and when euros look around and see that their culture seems similar to ours, they simply think that its because we co-opted their culture while they wear blue jeans watch American TV, eat fast food, have weekends and use our slang without even realizing their doing it.


 No.2615155

>>2615152

Your comment is wrong. What dominates the world is Latin alphabet, Gregorian calendart Indo-Arabian numbers and commieblocks. Jeans were invented by Latvian immigrant, fast food has existed before America came to be(Kebabs,pizzas,chebureki) weekeds came to be thanks to leftists.

There is nothing American about anything that is dominating the world.


 No.2615167

>>2615155

Is it difficult to do stubbornly lie to yourself? Read Debord, Althusser, or Amin my man.


 No.2615172

Ethno-Nationalism is toxic no matter who does it. Nobody gets a free pass.


 No.2615193

>>2615152

the joke is to call any of these things "culture"

like their "gun culture"

the Soviet Union had a real gun culture, it was sophisticated and educational

americans don't know any such things

it's just mindless consumption, and funny enough that's all you've listed


 No.2615212

>>2615152

As an American this is American culture

>eating at McDonald's everyday

>eating tubs of mayo

>becoming obese

>dying of heart failure

>being unable to pay bills, taxes, healthcare

>buying things in bulk and then throwing it out later

>loving your country while hating everything about it


 No.2615224

Who can speak for blacks?

If there's a black nationalist movement that wishes to go their own way and believes it necessary, and non-black outsiders decide they are wrong, what should the judgement from outsiders be worth to that movement?


 No.2615227

>>2615224

Idk what are you trying to say with this post, but you just exposed a flaw


 No.2615232

>>2615230

>it's because lack of a vanguard leading the working masses that they haven't revolted yet

yes, that's summing up the history of successful and failing revolutions

you are very perceptive, want a dog treat?


 No.2615240

>>2615167

Wile I thank you for the recommendation comrade, I don't need to read a book about grass being green to know that grass is green!


 No.2615302

>>2615236

which is exactly what i said before

i suggest you to take classes to improve your reading comprehension


 No.2615455

File: 3442ce88f7aec9d⋯.jpg (244.41 KB, 891x1350, 33:50, 3442ce88f7aec9dce926f761f4….jpg)

>>2615193

Im not defending the culture im jist saying thay its pervasive and to say that a dostinct american culture doesnt exist is just a lie.

When it comes to specific regions in America, ill say there are redeaming things about our culture. For example i grew up in nashville and the music culture there is great.

Parties all night long, amazing artists from all over the world live here, beautiful natural landscape, huge state parks, great fishing, moonshine was born here ,which is pretty anti authoritarian, and tons of other stuff.

Im sure other people can speak to the ool stuff from their local cultures in America but i agree that when it comes to American culture in its totality its fucking awful.


 No.2615468

>>2615455

>just

>distinct

>cool

And this is why you dont post while stealing time at work in the bathroom kids.


 No.2615670

because its divide and conquer.




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