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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

A collective of people engaged in pretty much what the name suggests
Winner of the 62rd Attention-Hungry Games
/eris/ - Wherein Is Explained Absolutely Everything Worth Knowing About Absolutely Anything.

November 2018 - 8chan Transparency Report
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Tags: leftism (CLICK HERE FOR MORE LEFTIST 8CHAN BOARDS), politics, activism, news

File: 70f22926a7af157⋯.jpg (19.2 KB, 385x370, 77:74, 81kFNu47meL._UX385_.jpg)

 No.2741478

If we really care for the fate of the people who comprise our nation, our motto should be: America last, China last, Russia last.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/12/if-we-want-survive-planet-we-need-abandon-cause-nation-state

 No.2741668

He's really going all-in on VAROUFAKIS GANG isn't he?


 No.2741675

>>2741478

But I love my country though.


 No.2741684

>>2741675

>no nation states means your ethnic group and culture won’t exist

Big brain


 No.2741687

obviously, but to sublate borders you have to eliminate inequity in the first place, otherwise no civilization would be able to function.


 No.2741721

>>2741478

It's impossible, so who cares. We simply have no technological capacity to create a system that would encompass the whole humanity - or even a major part of it - as a singular and centralized economic, cultural and legal environment.

The only way to address climate change is to invest into adaptability to it on a national level. Even if you think it isn't enough - there is no other option.


 No.2741732

Bruv this is like no brain early commie shit. Marxists have always been internationalists, I guess maybe he is rah-rahing or something like that but we know this. The hard part is figuring out how to do it, everybody is so warped in their nationalistic ideology that when you press even many liberal Americans enough about whether or not they accept the exploitation of foreign countries on their behalf they'll cave in an start justifying it. And that is the average people, when you're talking about the media heads and politicians there is barely a need to press, they'll start extolling the virtues and necessity of American hegemony in a second. But the easiest way to get an average person to swear fealty to the flag is scare them with some kind of bogeyman, like Russia, or China, or even pitiful broken countries like Iraq in 2003. Just tell them that this foreign country hates them and is spooky and you'll get 80% of the population to say "we gotta kill them, it's for the best".


 No.2741741

>>2741478

> thinkpiece about random shit that will never happen

Zizek is fucking retarded and people should stop listening to the shit he spews


 No.2741768

I like Zizek but he always phones in these articles.


 No.2741773

File: 549726a77925153⋯.png (35.62 KB, 264x173, 264:173, 264px-Arab_world.png)

>>2741675

I hope you mean this as a single under one flag


 No.2741778

>>2741684

?

>>2741773

I'm not arabian, but ofc I love Palestine too.


 No.2741785

File: bb82eafc1d695f7⋯.png (1.08 MB, 1080x1288, 135:161, 1542419275877.png)

>>2741778

>Ba'ath flag

>not arab

it's all so tiresome


 No.2741832

>>2741785

>Implying there even are arabs posting here living in their country of origin


 No.2741840

File: 7374604f1ce65e1⋯.png (43.59 KB, 220x299, 220:299, 220px-Abdullah_Öcalan.png)

based and redpilled


 No.2741842

>>2741832

there are, or at least there used to be.


 No.2741856

Nation-states developed as capitalism needed a way to centralize power into a localized bourgeoisie. This marks a progressive development from feudalism and mercantilism which saw small fiefdoms, kingdoms and duchys as the primary mode of production to administer geographic territories.

Internationalism implies to deconstruction of borders (US-Mexico, Israel-Palestine, Pakistan-India) and seeks to establish local administrative regions where workers have control over their own regions without the bourgeoisie gatekeeping. In bourgeois society the rich control the borders as they are the property owners. Socialism will see democratic control over borders, whereas communism will see the abolition of all borders that divide the proletariat.

The state is merely the apparatus that dictates the rule of bourgeois and capitalist society. Therefor the state will have to be eroded or co-opted for it to be for the workers. The destruction of borders will not be the end of unique culture or ethnicities which comprise of a nation. Geographic and material differences will still exist under the socialist mode of production, it is merely taking it away from bourgeois society which creates exploitation and inequality among nations.


 No.2741860

File: a762996601ed0a5⋯.png (74.73 KB, 456x339, 152:113, JEZgKTR.png)

>>2741832

Zamel tarbouk WALLAH RHANIJIL DRAPEAU TARBOUK

tfou bouzebal


 No.2741870

Sounds like trot-scum drivel. He's obviously aiming this at other countries dropping nationalism BEFORE the US does. If anyone thinks he's not a US shill then I don't know what to tell you.


 No.2741874

>>2741870

wow are twitter 'anti-imperialists' reconnecting with the 1930s and now everything that they don't like is the great satan/trotskyists?


 No.2741877

>>2741870

>He's obviously aiming this at other countries dropping nationalism BEFORE the US does.

How the fuck did you get any of that from the article?

>If anyone thinks he's not a US shill then I don't know what to tell you.

Take your meds.


 No.2741881


 No.2741887

>>2741778

>Ba'ath flag

>probably some pasty whitey posting from his basement

Cringe


 No.2741888

>>2741887

I'm not white, so no clue what you're talking about. I'm not even american.


 No.2741889

>>2741888

>not an Arab

>ba'ath flag

Still cringing familia


 No.2741890

>>2741889

Then you must constantly cringe at all the DPRK and Yugo posters who aren't korean and balkan too right?


 No.2741891

>>2741887

>he doesn’t know that Ba’athism is the vanguard and fighting battalion of white juche today

Cringe and blue-pilled. Lrn 2 Nazbol 101


 No.2741893

>>2741890

Of course


 No.2741898

File: 6a97fb27c55cec5⋯.png (Spoiler Image, 73.75 KB, 327x327, 1:1, ClipboardImage.png)

>this thread

Cringe!


 No.2741901

>>2741721

Those days are over. We have the internet. It's perfect. This is purely a political problem, not one of technology.


 No.2741936

I🅱EO🅱OGY


 No.2741972

>>2741877

Why can't he state how nationalism is expressed differently between imperialist states and their victims? Nationalism in imperialist/western countries is expressed as crass fascism.


 No.2741984

How about the EU and America abolish their countries first and merge into a corporate conglomerate with Amazon Olive Garden and Macdonalds dictating the economic policies and the entire culture then after 50 years other countries can decide weather this policy was successful or not


 No.2741996

>>2741478

You and your stupid nations are lame. I'm with Zizek, fuck nations. Fun fact, there is absolutely no special virtue in a place simply because you exist there. You are the serfs who say "But I like my lords kingdom". Everything you enjoy is seperate from the nation state, much like everything a serf enjoys is seperate from the lords land. A serf may enjoy his farm, but he could farm without the lord. The same is true for you and your stupid state.


 No.2742002

>>2741996

First day as an anarchist?


 No.2742009

>>2742002

first day as an anarchist is still less pathetic than /pol/yp convert's 200th day on /leftypol/ and still spooked to hell and back tbh


 No.2742026

>>2742009

So I'm a polyp because I realize the countries that would first drop nationalism are the oppressed ones because it's less costly for them to do so? I don't care for nationalism at all, I want to see it abolished AFTER we've laid waste to America, thus global capital.

It would be absolutely fucking retarded for countries to stop being nationalist while global capital maintains its stranglehold. Otherwise you'll probably get an ancap dystopia.


 No.2742033

>>2742026

none of that is coherent, try being a materialist and make an argument you unmarxist faggot.

nationalism isn't going to help destroy america or global capital, and nationalism isn't the sacred barrier keeping the ancaps from taking over.

You transparently have no clue what you're talking about.


 No.2742046

>>2742033

How isn't it coherent? What are you finding difficult in the English language? Nationalism is, unfortunately, the only thing unifying the poorer peoples of the world, same with religion. Leftist groups are gutted and decimated the world over, now when imperialism strikes an area, then nationalism will be the only antagonistic force that can relent against said imperialism.

Nationalism will not destroy America, but will weaken them through failed imperialist ventures and wasteful wars. Nationalism was utilized in the fight against the Nazis, not the complexities of MOP or anarchism. Soviets called upon patriotism to fight against crass fascism, otherwise known as imperialist "nationalism". Nationalism doesn't prevent imperialist states or their weaker vassals from being ancap hellholes because of the state's subjugation to capital, yet the premise of your argument is that without nationalism - while still under capitalist hegemony - this process of complete privatization wouldn't be accelerated. Rethink this thoroughly.

Be pragmatic.


 No.2742048

>>2741996

There's literally nothing wrong with soft patriotism.


 No.2742051

>>2742048

Disregard shitposting flag


 No.2742093

>>2741972

>Why can't he state how nationalism is expressed differently between imperialist states and their victims?

Because his point is that the threat of climate change has fundamentally changed our conditions. Nationalism of any kind is detrimental in a situation where global cooperation is required to save humanity.


 No.2742315

>>2741856

Nation state has existed since goddamn forever, look up Greece.


 No.2742350


 No.2742354

>>2742093

Look cat poster, I will concede to your point, as I would with every point you made - if we were living in a vacuum.

But we're not, so your advice would make the situation even worse because of what I stated earlier. First world nations will need to stop being nationalist IN FULL before developing countries can even think about following. That's because first world nations use nationalism to facilitate capitalist ventures and the further ruin of our environment. I don't see how some third world country dropping nationalism only for capitalists to come in and enslave everyone there will help climate change.


 No.2742358

>>2742354

This is what I've noticed with cat poster, he says a lot of things that are unfalsifiable if you were arguing without context. He says a lot of THEORETICALLY correct statements, but his knowledge on current politics is APPALLING. Too stuck in theory and clinging to pure marxism, like a leftcom.


 No.2742362

>>2742350

It's true though.


 No.2744240

>>2741478

*except israel*


 No.2744248

>>2744240

/pol/ I will actually send you a hundred dollars on Paypal if you can show us evidence that Zizek is a Zionist.


 No.2744271

Nation States are doomed. We're gonna go back to a pre-Westphalia state of existence.

The Islamic State is gonna be what the future will be like.


 No.2745497

>>2742354

First off that position implies that you can’t resist imperialism without being nationalist. Second, even if that were true, all you’re saying then is that defeating climate change will require us to abolish imperialism and thus capitalism, which we all already know to be the case. So then your only real critique of Zizek is that he’s thinking too long term, rather than focus on the immediate needs of the situation vis a vis imperialism. I actually agree with you generally speaking, I’m just defending Zizek because I detest the kind of mental gymnastics it takes to unironically say that he’s a US shill based on this article.

>>2742358

No u.


 No.2745613

I don't see that happening at any moment in history.


 No.2745815

>>2745613

>the royal families collaborating on style of government? impossible!


 No.2745872

>>2741478

>America last, China last, Russia last.

Sounds good intellectually, but people are so spooked, I doubt you could say that and become popular. Pure Idealism.


 No.2745913

File: 5a18e9aa2ba638e⋯.png (1000.54 KB, 742x720, 371:360, girlish number face543.png)

How about just "America last"?


 No.2747941

>>2741741

Most of the article is about global warming anyways. The internationalism is a small bit at the end.


 No.2747954

File: 33207be18f9d323⋯.jpg (13.58 KB, 480x360, 4:3, Sam Marcy.jpg)


 No.2748246

>>2741478

ABSOLUTELY UNIRONICALLY BASED!


 No.2748257

>>2741675

This is why multiculturalism must be forced down your throat. People act on these primitive instincts even when all of humanity is at stake.


 No.2748258

>>2745613

Then we are doomed.


 No.2748889

>>2741856

Production isn't as local anymore as it used to be.So it is impossible for workers to gain control over the production by merely abolishing one nation state and establishing local administrative regions.

What we need is instead further integration, more globalism, until everything is controlled by one global state Then we can abolish it.


 No.2748902

Alternatively we could simply impose 1-child policy globally. Those who get themselves sterilized get gifts in return, like a house or food.


 No.2748961

There is nothing wrong with the idea of nations, as best korea shows us.


 No.2749211

File: 6154096d86b0841⋯.jpg (179.53 KB, 720x400, 9:5, 6154096d86b084179e4972ce54….jpg)

>>2741840

DID SOMEONE SAY NON-STATE SOLUTIONS


 No.2749410

>>2748902

You cant impose anything on global scale without the force of a global state backing it up.


 No.2749412

>>2748961

Yes the possibility of nuclear war on Korean peninsula is a great example of nation states working.




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