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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

A collective of people engaged in pretty much what the name suggests
Winner of the 77nd Attention-Hungry Games
/x/ - Paranormal Phenomena and The RCP Authority

April 2019 - 8chan Transparency Report
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Tags: leftism (CLICK HERE FOR MORE LEFTIST 8CHAN BOARDS), politics, activism, news

File: 5fd1e2652ae17ae⋯.jpg (106.92 KB, 748x493, 44:29, li-zhensheng.jpg)

 No.2822244

Recently I've seen a lot of people express interest in the left, more than the typical urban milieu of disgruntled neoliberals and centrists – but reactionaries as well. The kind of people who a year ago were happily browsing /pol/ or Catholics who've come to reject the political trappings of American Christianity and endeavor to become more "Christ-like".

Either way they're a pretty disparate group, vaguely class conscious, and they come to certain subreddits wanting to learn more. Typically they'll get redirected to some FAQ or Wiki with about a hundred links some of them good, like the Manifesto, V.I. Lenin's writings etc., others quite dry like Das Kapital. There is no rhyme or reason to their order, no natural progression from one thought to another, no evolution from a simple declaration of belief to a thorough analysis. Needless to say the barrier to entry is quite high.

But those that do power through and read the material probably have questions. So they'll go to another subreddit or forum and get absolutely eaten alive. I've seen people asking good faith questions and woke-scolds come out of the woodwork like little fucking gremlins and treat them like absolute shit, if not simply ban them outright for using ableist slurs like idiot or some other trumped up charge. It's enough to make any non-masochist run for the hills.

I remember getting absolutely dogpiled on the Chapo sub by "Dirtbag leftists" when I simply agreed with Amber's "No wokeness" article. I was just about done with that group, when one of the few sane people left PMd me a link to /leftypol/, and I found my little corner of the internet.

This whole thing is fucked until people come up with a better way of welcoming new people.

 No.2822253

Contrapoints is a fucking lib but she was right when she said it is WAY easier to be accepted into the "right" than into the left, like even if you form part of the left you have to take care of what you say if you don't want to be singled out and outcasted from their shitty twitter groups.


 No.2822256

>>2822253

Do you have a link? My google-fu is pretty shit admittedly and I've avoided watching ContraPoints, because I discounted her as one of those rose twitter people


 No.2822260

>>2822256

"I’ve done several videos that target the strategy, or lack thereof, of a lot of people on the left. There is rhetoric that’s extremely alienating and off-putting. There’s tribalism that makes it very difficult to get in. There’s purity testing that pushes most people out. I think that a lot of the way that leftist spaces work online is designed for 5% of people to be able to be welcomed by them. Meanwhile, right-wing groups are recruiting anyone who wants to get on board with the cause.

I have to be cautious because if I tweet one thing critical of progressive movements I get love-bombed by all these right-wing people saying: “You’re so right, it’s so awful that you have to deal with this.” It’s like they have a welcome committee for people who want to sign up for the far right but on the left you almost have to fight your way in."

From an interview with The Economist


 No.2822269

File: 033c3a82efb686e⋯.jpg (1.58 MB, 2502x1284, 417:214, Lenin - moral self-perfect….jpg)

File: e08b66a88b29e5b⋯.jpg (23.62 KB, 591x287, 591:287, Dldqky2U0AAQvba.jpg)

File: cb6280f0791d261⋯.jpg (1.63 MB, 2036x3051, 2036:3051, cb6280f0791d261ae1ca5fe429….jpg)

File: 9dc711c14a1f949⋯.jpg (273.12 KB, 1571x1000, 1571:1000, 9dc711c14a1f9490c01b4de705….jpg)

File: 3c9bd2ce80f059f⋯.png (293.68 KB, 769x511, 769:511, 2024e28459ecc23d70e60976f1….png)

>reddit


 No.2822273

>>2822269

Is the first post in the first pic cut? or did the user below really just respond with "whites are evil and males are bad", it seems he's quoting to start an argument


 No.2822277

>>2822244

the problem is those people are hobbyists they dont want new people to join their club


 No.2822287

>w*Sternoid urb*Noids are idiots

what else is new?


 No.2822296

>>2822260

I mean yeah she's got half a point but that's the problem with actually being a real principled movement, there has to be standards (maybe not so high, but still), the right is just a loose grouping of billionaires, white supremacists, confederates, theocrats, zionists, and the shills thereof. They don't have a real ideology, just a collection of talking points to continue their power.


 No.2822299

>>2822296

That is true, but the point in general is that the mainstream left is truly non inclusive, we know how they react to shit we couldn't care less in here. Opinions in r/stupidpol are not as associated with the left as whatever trans people spout on twitter.


 No.2822322

>>2822260

>” It’s like they have a welcome committee for people who want to sign up for the far right

They actually do have discord severs dedicated to grooming initiates.


 No.2822344

>>2822299

Being inclusive isn't inherently good.


 No.2822396

>leftist experience

Cringe


 No.2822399

>>2822344

It is if your trying to build a mass movement.


 No.2822400

>>2822244

I don't think the online "left" that we have is capable of doing this. The inhabitants of twitter and left subreddits largely got there through disillusionment with campus liberalism or through the Sanders/Corbyn campaigns, and they brought an unhelpful approach to thinking through issues. In academia as well as electoral politics, you're supposed to specialize and stay in your lane to avoid making uninformed or offensive comments. You read well regarded texts to get inspiration for how to approach your chosen issue and give theoretical fuel to your argument, not to build a worldview from scratch. That's why these wikis you speak of tend to have no logical progression or signs of attempting to construct a worldview: many are written as a list of texts that, according to the author, are valid leftist canon for your use as needed.

So I think a lot of the hostile response to new people who read some books and have some questions is down to people smelling some kind of weirdo who doesn't have a pet issue, and trying to push them away using the most effective social method available, which currently is accusing them of various isms, or of belonging to a non marginalized group. This is not to say that these people don't genuinely believe the non-woke posters are racists or whatever, I'm just claiming that what they're detecting is an outgroup member, and then incorrectly assuming on some level that the outgroup is entirely made up of bigots and unvirtuous white cishets.


 No.2822409

>>2822400

Have you read SSC's "I CAN TOLERATE ANYTHING EXCEPT THE OUTGROUP"?

Even though I disagree with the author on pretty much everything, this particular post is illuminating on how we treat "others".

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/


 No.2822437

>>2822409

Yes, that post helped me start noticing the online manifestation of ingroup/outgroup dynamics. That's the thing with lesswrong type people: they occasionally make some clever observations about society, but then they combine it with their scientific training to create a whole ideology of being clever and it's just libertarian nonsense at best. If the left was set up better for recruiting, we'd be there to say "hey I heard you like clever observations about how the world works, have you tried this historical materialism stuff?" But instead we've got a lot of very smart people who think it's more important that everyone agrees we need open borders now.


 No.2822451

>>2822399

Not all masses play nicely together. You can't just accept all comers. The obvious example is that you can't build a mass movement that includes both racists and minorities.

Also lol @ a trot trying to advocate building a mass movement


 No.2822494

>>2822451

Socialism can only be achieved via revolution, which requires a mass movement of all workers in order to succeed.

>>2822451

>The obvious example is that you can't build a mass movement that includes both racists and minorities.

Only through organizing all workers on the basis of class power can racial hatred be defused. I forget who said it, but their is a quote somewhere that the union by bringing everyone together made workers who previously held racist statements no longer racist, because they aw hat their interests were aligned with workers of other races.


 No.2822496

>>2822494

There's also that Lenin quote about how the revolution will have all sorts of people.


 No.2822503

>>2822244

>I remember getting absolutely dogpiled on the Chapo sub by "Dirtbag leftists" when I simply agreed with Amber's "No wokeness" article.

Jeez, how'd that go down?


 No.2822517

>>2822494

>Only through organizing all workers on the basis of class power can racial hatred be defused

This.

You have to unite people on their shared interests, and by doing this you can overcome things like racism. The thing about racism is it's bullshit - it's largely a concern that gets put there to replace the natural anxiety people will feel about their economic condition. The reason things like racism, right-wing Christianity, etc. get amplified is often because the left isn't active enough with these people - or with the population in general - and because whoever takes the place of the "left" in mainstream consciousness has opted to primarily emphasize issues other than class and economics.


 No.2822556

>>2822494

You're putting the cart before the horse. You make the workers realize their common interests and then you bring them together. You can't just force them together without first awakening them to class consciousness.


 No.2822895

>Needless to say the barrier to entry is quite high.

People are fucking retards if they unironically tell a newbie to read fucking Capital (not even an abridged version). Way to make somebody loose interest and leave. I mean, have you read Capital? Have you read three tomes that take a good year to digest? I actually have read Capital but I am willing to admit that I have skipped many chapters and not completely digested everything, and I would bet my are even most Marxists in academia haven't properly read Capital. So the idea to recommend Capital as an entry for right-wingers, libs and normies is completely fucking insane.

There is good entry level material out there, but you need overcome your autism and analyse what the other guy is actually interested in. If he's more of a pop-philosopher guy, get him some Mark Fisher, if he's more of an economics guy, get him Wage Labour and Capital/Value, Price and Profit, if he's an history guy, get him any of these pro-Soviet works floating around at /marx/, etc. - the first mission to keep recruits around is to pander to their interests. It makes no sense to give someone some highly technical economic work if he gets the shivers when he sees it or some STEMfag the German Ideology.

I'm very well aware that eventually, these people need to read the classics, but at the beginning they just need some basic understanding of what the radical left actually is about. ABC of Communism from Bukharin is actually a very good choice in almost any situation.


 No.2822897

>>2822296

The problem here with the left is, that instead of correcting incorrect opinions, in some non-autistic way, they just scream at the culprit and harass him. For these people, guilt is a stain that lasts for life, and people are born as good or bad. This is dangerous essentialism and elitism that goes back to the retarded boomers of the students movement in the 60s in the West.

Like they are still harassing Bat'ko for his past on /leftypol/ despite him bending over backwards for the craziest SJWs imaginable.


 No.2822902

If you read the post of that Coast Guard guy who wanted to kill everyone he literally was talking about how Liberalism wants wars and destroys culture and that Muslims are right for fighting it.

It's similar to McVeigh who talked about how hypocritical the USA was.

But they could only find the Far-Right so they wanted to kill everyone.

Ordinary US Troops are waking up but they are incapable of seeing what will actually help them.


 No.2822912

>>2822400

>The inhabitants of twitter and left subreddits largely got there through disillusionment with campus liberalism or through the Sanders/Corbyn campaigns

Corbynites tend to be much better than your average Chapo. If you see an obvious Chapo bitching about intersectionality, muh brocialists etc and you can BTFO them then the Corbynites will typically rally to you, not them, in my experience.

Obviously this isn't apparent somewhere like r/CTH, which seems to infect everyone that comes into contact with it for a sustained duration with radical liberalism. Even the Brits there are insufferable idealists.


 No.2822946

File: 4ce088064505a70⋯.gif (433.48 KB, 500x333, 500:333, zorak 1427895057224.gif)

>>2822897

This isn't a direct response but your post kinda made me think of this:

A huge problem with the internet "left" is that it's seen as an exclusive club that's hard to join, and it's become an identity that a lot of cliquey people are attracted to. A lot of "left" media like Chapo really try to define themselves with being anti-liberal than actually trying to develop any actual left theory/ideas. The vast majority of their podcasts are reading liberal op-eds and then making fun of them instead of actually trying to do anything. It reminds me a lot of how the mid-2000's New Atheist movement eventually imploded on itself after it stopped being about stopping insane religious zealots from passing laws and started turning into conventions and youtube celebrity drama. This is usually the stage where the parasites who have their own agenda come in and try to use a movement as a front to preach their pet issues (both atheist and leftist circles have been penetrated by insane TERFs who only ever spout shit about smashing the patriarchy and destroying gender roles but never any actual economic theory).

I don't understand why Batko would ever try to placate these insane twitter people who do nothing but bitch about alleged microtransgressions, they're nothing but whiny parasites, the kind of people who end up working in HR and trying to get some poor sap fired because he said he didn't like the way the coffee was made.


 No.2822972

>>2822244

In the past the left was labor based it was a clear and present material struggle between workers and the factory bosses that model in the West has been crushed. The nu left is all about muh moral's They recognize that they won a birth lottery born into a system that is opressive that fucks over the entire planet through imperialism and they want to do something to make it better.


 No.2822977

>>2822946

>I don't understand why Batko would ever try to placate these insane twitter people who do nothing but bitch about alleged microtransgressions, they're nothing but whiny parasites, the kind of people who end up working in HR and trying to get some poor sap fired because he said he didn't like the way the coffee was made.

E-fame. When you achieve a certain reach, you have to deal with these witches because they do end up dominating the discourse on Twitter. The "anti-IdPol bubble", or even the TERF bubble are pretty small. Once you have 10k followers, you have to deal with people who use "white" instead of "bad". And while I think they are both ridiculous in their antics, you can look at Unruhe who never got a foothold on Twitter and Phil Greaves who got cancelled because he decided to die on that gender theory hill.


 No.2822980

PR campaigns are bourgeois revisionism

It reeks of paternalism and respectability politics scolding to take the line that outsiders need to be coddled. Any proletarian can recognize their own class interests, and how their class interests supercede petty squabbles and microcosmic political infighting. If you're worried that someone won't join your local because you called them a racist, that isn't someone you want in your local anyway. If someone is willing to drop out because of their ego, then they are in a position where public image is more important to them than their material conditions, meaning they are materially advantaged enough not to need to care. Those people can never be authentically revolutionary. Don't hold your breath waiting for class traitors to come around. Don't dilute the revolutionary zeal and solidarity of the working class to appeal to petit bourgeois liberals and outright reactionary elements. They aren't your allies, and they never will be under a system with class divisions that they benefit from.


 No.2822985

>>2822269

Idpol is shit

Intersectional materialst analysis is not. Why is that so hard to understand.>>2822269


 No.2822986

>>2822985

>Intersectional materialst analysis

Post it.


 No.2823002

>>2822999

Can you tell us the rest of the story? did the news report the false report?


 No.2823006

>>2823004

Can't you take them to court for that?


 No.2823007

>>2822999

Sure they did


 No.2823123

>>2822269

Paul Cockshott confirmed TERF GANG


 No.2823288

>>2823007

That's a fairly normal tactic for the police.


 No.2823310

File: a1279d656f37320⋯.png (466.46 KB, 970x603, 970:603, a1279d656f37320e4e24af3458….png)

"The left" in the US is cultists, egomaniacs, grifters, and Facebook groups run by totalitarian brainlets. Unions are taken over by and incorporated into liberal institutions. The only activity worth engaging in imo is antifascist action when needed and the IWW, which is the only group I can tolerate. If anyone has had a better experience let me know because i would love to make some communist friends but it seems impossible, the closest I've come is one college philosophy professor. Oh and this is in New England. When you say the experience is shit I understand completely, I Infighting is out of control due to constant battles for clout/ego-feeding/lack of reading, and so many of the people trying to take leadership positions are completely insufferable. When the real revolutionary situation arises, all these microsects and cult leaders are going to be culled like in the French revolution, and I honestly can't wait.

/rant


 No.2823313

I hate the radlibs / Tumblrs in the American New Left.

we need more post-leftist mentality


 No.2823320

File: e0af626158efa6b⋯.jpg (44.39 KB, 454x600, 227:300, 4K9iYVjvprIiNSE243wmPVf8_z….jpg)

Call me nazbol or whatever you want but i firmly believe most twitter/reddit radlibs and the like are nothing more than COINTELPRO trying to subvert leftist movements and make us fight each other, and this is why a vanguard is necessary in order to keep in check the many radlib factions who may not be entirely loyal to the cause and remind us to never lose the main focus of crushing the bourgeoisie and implementing socialism.


 No.2823321

>>2823320

>call me nazbol

>doesn't mention nationalism


 No.2823359

>>2823321

Nazbol thread?


 No.2823385

>>2822999

Ok weirdo.


 No.2823388


 No.2823392

I think you all need to realize that if you're an actual legitimate proletarian, you need to start exercising your IRL political interests as one in a rational manner. You're not building for the revolution in a way, but the ashes of something that was built by the CPUSA and thusly separated from it via the fact that the CPUSA was very ready to endorse left-liberal one-hit-wonder FDR (sound familiar? "Green New Deal" anyone?) and thusly got pounced when they realized class struggle was now realized within the left-wing of the Democrats. Of course, Second Red Scare comes along, and it's not the CPUSA who's mainly targeted. It's literally all the left-liberals like Wallace who had state power that are named and shamed for their unfortunate propensity to advocate nice wages, or peace on Earth. All this being said, I'll respond to the OP who's way less interesting:

>>2822244

I honestly don't care about someone's bitching and whining about how they can't say "faggot" or how their concern trolling for """""Jewish influence"""" in capitalism is "just getting shit on because it's politically incorrect!" without getting straight-up called an idiot. People will seek out material to educate themselves if they really want to, so I doubt any "woke-scolds" turned someone into a lib centrist or violent racist. Especially since confrontation has always, always, always worked for me in mixture with the nicer side of recommending interesting reads, citing passages or statistics, etc. That's real solidarity. You don't just let someone keep doing the wrong thing if you really care about them.


 No.2823404

>>2823392

>>2823388

This post by Mark Fisher for example. It's an observation of *interpersonal relationships within the left* even though it's pretty trash and relies on the old dead meme about communism being an extended form of a christian guilt cult. Very Nietzschean and edgy, fit with all the "muh rich people want to tone police me" stuff, but the reality is much more complex, considering I've had a literal Australian petty booj academic lecture me about neoliberalism and "identitarianism" before on my IRL Twitter in the same vein as Fisher's critique. In a way, the workerist posturing of some of these groups creates a reflection of the Vampire's Castle. With many of the people on this board the very thought of acknowledging race classifications in America as having a material basis, and thus white racism in the white working-class having a material basis through the politics of an Empire-friendly labor aristocracy, is a verboten thing that undermines communist politics. To some extent, yes, but only if you're not prepared to good-faith indict plenty of hip and cool socialist figures for their bad theory and praxis.

If Mark wants to use Nietzsche as an example, what about ressentiment? I used to say the n-word a lot. I used to say faggot a lot. But it wasn't guilt that lead me to stop saying it. It was more-or-less common sense respect, leading by example, (in a Marxist sense) knowing that those words do enforce negative stereotypes about people that were propelled by capitalism or reactionary orders. A lot of these /leftypol/ types seem to want to buck this, maybe because they don't feel like it, or they really don't have a problem with those things. So now it becomes the bad, "moralizing" left, and a real bastardization of Mark's work. A shame because Mark isn't really that bad.


 No.2823420

File: 90672e40f8159de⋯.jpg (135.12 KB, 1221x840, 407:280, pol pot.jpg)

>>2822985

>Intersectional

>materialst


 No.2823460

the refusal to use class as a common thread between intersections or as an organizational tool and the centering of silly marginal bullshit over things like racial profiling or global warming or economic justice or something as simple as healthcare makes me feel like i'm just fucking wasting my time

you need to stop letting these scornful internet twerps dictate public discourse to it's detriment out of fear of social reprisal. this is getting absurd


 No.2823462

>>2823460

>silly marginal shit

>global warming

lel


 No.2823466

>>2823462

what's the problem?


 No.2823467

>>2823466

>post-apocalyptic socialism


 No.2823469

>>2823404

>I used to say faggot a lot. But it wasn't guilt that lead me to stop saying it. It was more-or-less common sense respect, leading by example, (in a Marxist sense) knowing that those words do enforce negative stereotypes about people that were propelled by capitalism or reactionary orders.

Yes, this is the right attitude / approach. The fact is, "we live in a society" you know, and if we want to navigate within it, there needs to be a minimum standard of mutual respect. The liberal attitude by contrast almost seems like it wants people to (I don't know how to describe this but) merge into each other through "acceptance." Like I'm a white man, so through liberal tolerance, will come to truly understand black men. But I don't think most black men actually care if I understand them: they want me – and people like me – to leave them the fuck alone! And stop calling the cops on them and so on. Nowhere here is it necessary for me to "love" them or whatever. To add to the intersectional mix, I'm gay, too. But I don't think straight black men (or straight men generally) in my city here in America really need to understand me – and seems a bit goofy to expect them to "love" me, either.

But people generally try to respect each other. And if you have that minimum standard of respect, interesting things happen. The thing with saying the word faggot and so on; maybe I feel old because people who say words like that online seem like mostly teenagers. Imagine some guy in his thirties walking around being like "sup fags lol" IRL. Embarrassing.

>>2823310

Locally, there was a socialist group that got into a lot of trouble with this. Stupid power struggles over ego and clout destroyed an organization. I only heard about it second-hand and after the fact, as my group of newly-radicalized lefties picked up some of the refugees. But we've tried troubleshooting what went wrong, and we've learned that one culprit was the intensity of organizing. The fact was that most of the people in the group saw each other weekly if not multiple times per week. Weekly meetings for the whole group, then planning meetings for events, then the events (tabling, demos, etc.), so you get this pressure cooker environment where people wear on each other. And nobody's getting paid to do it either, so why should they put up with each other?

>>2823462

You're misreading the post FYI


 No.2823471

>>2823469

i probably am reading it wrong. i think im autistic.


 No.2823483

>>2822895

This anon knows what's good.

How would we start discords for grooming?


 No.2823847

>>2823469

It isn't so much a merger as it is a recruitment of minorities into the ruling-class. Look at Kamala Harris. Radicals in Oakland, especially from the working-class, hate the fuck out of her. Zizek has a popular argument for this that's nonetheless used to defend his Asserite positions, which is that guilt is seen as an effective replacement for the actual attack at institutions that reproduce capitalism - in the context of immigration in his case, NATO interventions. In a pragmatic, humanity-focused way, "understanding" what a black party member is saying about their neighborhood is needed. But no, listening to a black millionaire like Harris isn't. We are in an strange stage in America where not only does the active recruitment of "minorities" happen regularly and very often, but the minorities recruited into state power take up the same positions to carry out racialized capitalist exploitation like Harris' truancy or marijuana laws.


 No.2823851

>>2822999

Are you shitposting pretending to be Bones or are you actually him?


 No.2823853

>>2823321

Nazbol is a pretty common insult by radlib types as soon as you start remotely suggesting that they might be wrong about anything


 No.2823854

>>2823853

Like what? Everything here has been vague descriptions of "wrongful" accusations. Someone linked an article in this thread defending Russel Brand sexually harassing a bunch of women lol.


 No.2823855

File: 33b30be5b8b20cc⋯.jpg (282.19 KB, 943x576, 943:576, captainamerica.jpg)

>>2823853

>Nazbol is a pretty common insult by radlib types as soon as you start remotely suggesting that they might be wrong about anything

Are you sure? I've literally never seen anyone use 'nazbol' outside of here and pol. Maye that weird edgy loner kid at the back of some socialist meeting might have muttered it under his breath once.

Btw, the right taking on traditional left policy isn't new or special, Even Le Pen openly talks about nationalization. the nazbol meme is just a classic case study of 'retards gonna retard'.

s/retard/burger


 No.2823861

File: 26bc8e0b44a62db⋯.jpeg (88.46 KB, 597x699, 199:233, Burnin'Sherman.jpeg)

>>2823855

>we’re on the wrong side of every war

kinda, but not really


 No.2823880

>>2823404

>even though it's pretty trash

Know of something better?


 No.2823888

>>2823861

RUN THAT SHIT BACK UNCLE BILLY GET FUCKING HYPE


 No.2823896

File: ba8b52357f6372f⋯.jpg (157.79 KB, 588x960, 49:80, pagangardening.jpg)

>>2823861

Nah. Any side against the yanks is the right side.


 No.2823912

>>2823871

They're a woman, and they co-host a podcast called the Dead Pundits Society. They're whole schtick is that they're not like the other girls at Booj University. Not one of them has actually done work or a proper social investigation into the working-class, but it seems like every time someone points out how the union movement in America has been primarily re-ignited by female wildcat strikers, or that the white working-class isn't black lunged coal miners anymore, they seem to get angry and ballistic at the Marxists who don't *ONLY* use class as their main method of looking at society (not realizing class is literally part identity politics itself). It's an obviously idiotic position. It's an obviously psuedo-Marxist one as well, because people can pass in-and-out of classes all the time. Lenin, a nobleman, was a dedicated leader of the proletarian movement. They're not bad for being richer than me, they're bad for not accurately representing the political realities I have to live with. For Mark FIsher and friends, the political struggle is in their podcasts and their zines, maybe campus drama, and petty-bourgeois liberal academia. Vampire's Castle, the article linked, Fisher's history as an academic, the academics I just talked about, etc are all fully representative of this. In that, they're not only a regressive element, they're also a completely ironic edge-fest.

>>2823880

The post was to demonstrate that Fisher wasn't talking about people being alienated from the left, he was talking about a breakdown in "comradeship" and "solidarity" in his pub arguments or something. Obviously there's plenty of people on the left who are willing to rehabilitate Russell Brand when he gets accused of gross sexual harassment by several women (unfortunately). But I'll recommend a few books to hammer in my point that class is just the *primary analysis* and not the only one.

Affirmative Action Empire, specifically the parts where Terry Martin talks about Lenin's views on national self-determination and the massive land reform/reparation campaign Lenin advocated. For more on how different parts of the working-class are treated differently. Engels says it plainly as a young journalist in his "Conditions of the Working-Class in England" when he talks about women and their children being forced into factories due to enclosure. "The Dangerous Class" by J. Sakai quotes it frequently, and while the book is mainly about the lumpen, it also goes into marginalization, specifically in regards to gender and sexuality. For an even bigger dump on the whole idea that you can make a dent in real-life politics if you hold your nose and say "muh neoliberals are bad and talking about racism is what the poors want" all the time, read "Settlers: Mythology of the White Proletariat" which is also written by J. Sakai during the Reagan presidency, where he was a hardened veteran of the Old and "New" Left communist movement.


 No.2823913

>>2823912

Correction, "muh neoliberals are bad and talking about racism isn't** what the poors want"


 No.2823923

>>2822269

>second pic

funny whenever i see a white homeless person it's always blacks that will give some money and generally treat them like human beings.


 No.2823927

>>2823912

>read "Settlers: Mythology of the White Proletariat" which is also written by J. Sakai

>read setlers

>>>/ethno-nationalism/


 No.2823930

>>2823923

That's probably a class thing. It just so happens that Class and Race in amerika seem to heavily intersect.


 No.2823979

File: 2a1c6b96cfb37f2⋯.png (105.52 KB, 355x369, 355:369, 4f4eb3ba6ddba7d12dde420d6c….png)

>>2823927

>>2823912

>Recommends Sakai not only once, but twice

You immediately lost any smidge of legitimacy you had


 No.2823989

>>2823927

>>2823979

Both of you literally haven't read it if you think it's "ethno-nationalist" and I'd like you to quote an "ethno-nationalist" passage from that book. Black people in America are definitely not one biological ethnicity. Sakai sings praises of the Seminole insurgency, who were often a mixture of black people, natives and sometimes heavily impoverished whites. He correctly points out that Marcus Garvey was a bourgeois nationalist and grills him on Garvey's support of capitalism and idealistic notions about liberation. He leans more toward national self-determination. Quote the book if you want to prove me wrong.


 No.2824000

File: cd0e203a6269ab2⋯.png (96.41 KB, 720x802, 360:401, Settler Labor CIO.PNG)

File: 83b8f8cb6052f8b⋯.png (90.36 KB, 658x693, 94:99, Settler Labor CIO2.PNG)

>>2823989

I mean the book if anything is criticizing ethno-nationalism in the U.S. socialist movement, which literally supported the Chinese Exclusion Act and was white supremacist even up until the 60s. How come all of you are so ready to jerk off over the Black Panther Party but you categorically refuse to acknowledge it was the material differences that separated the BPP from the white working-class, but not the Young Lords or Puerto Rican nationalist groups that were popular, socialist and genuinely expressed solidarity with them? Inb4 young patriots or something. They were a marginal group in Chicago and more of an attempt at the very eager New Left to organize among whites during those apartheid years. Guess what? Didn't work. You guys have to realize that for the majority of white Americans, hyperconsumerism was real. There was no material basis for an independent class politics if old money Democrats and Republicans supported welfare and subsidies for whites. While it had plenty of economistic demands, it was devoid of the radical demand of democracy for all people through taking state power, counter to the very mission statement of the United States' founders. The CPUSA literally disintegrated on its own accord after FDR, while the remnants of FDR's radical liberalism were torched in the Second Red Scare. Most people purged back then objectively were not communists.


 No.2824026

>>2824000

>their are proletarian nations and their are bourgeois nations. What defines these nations are racial categorizations.

Hello Mussolini


 No.2824029

>>2824026

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard said about Sakai or American left-nationalist movements ever.


 No.2824068

>>2824029

Sakai literally believes that some nations are “proletarian" in character and that other are "bourgeois" in character.


 No.2824086

>>2824029

>>2824068

Can you two please clarify your positions? Is the trot a drunk? Is other anon a prohibitionist?


 No.2824215

>>2822244

That no wokeness article is pretty good, but that doesn't really seem fair to say. Their is a possibly amazing kernel of an idea here, but the author doesn't expand on it and just sort of fafs about before mercifully ending the article. Good because it was short and keyed me on a great idea, absolutely terrible otherwise.

Honestly though, I wouldn't worry about people's politics like this though. People will just about always be crazy/terrible/dumb, barring perhaps a Communist revolution. It isn't really an obstacle as much as it is a fact of the landscape. It is kind of like a period. In a normal situation, we would all be very worried that we were bleeding internally, but we know it is just the normal monthly period and not anything serious. Is it strange? Perhaps, but there is really nothing to be done. That is how politics is for everyone. Think about people like Been Shapiro freaking out about dogmatic socialists "like AOC." From Ben's perspective, people are just as crazy, because they truly and honestly are. They believe in a crazy, fucked up system; they just see it differently than Ben does. But, in the end, they are both correct that the other one is nuts, or even that their other rightists/leftists are nuts. Our only issue is that we seem to have little political traction in first world countries. (Can't speak for the third world.) I don't believe the left genuinely faces any specific, fucked odds, other than the extremely obvious like the Capitalist state, which we can just take anyways.


 No.2824290

>>2824086

Other anon here. My position is that proletarians of certain variteties will be attracted to power structures such as patriarchy or in the case of America's whites, settler-colonialist white supremacy, due to how the political establishment treats them, tradition, and most importantly their relations to the means of production. This thread is about how mean it is to "woke-scold" someone for being a catholic reactionary or a nazibol. My argument is that this is a shit excuse and a wrong way to think that can be categorically denied by the experience of the communist movement, especially in America where short-term degenerate and hyperconsumerist material interests usually won out against any prolonged racial solidarity. I also point out how this is almost always used as a phony lie for cretins to shove off sexual assault (the Mark Fisher article I mention has him defending Russell Brand being a creep), or racism, in favor of calling people "liberals" and "not REAL socialists!" because acknowledging anything other than class is bad. This is then attributed to """neoliberalism""" (many of them are too afraid to call it capitalism) culture and identity politics, even though the literal idea behind liberal identity politics is counter-revolutionary.


 No.2824292

>>2824068

He "literally" doesn't. If you read the book he actually talks quite a bit about the Afrikan petit bourgeois selling out radicalized black Union veterans to the Federal Government for disarming, among other things. If you're a good communist you would at least read the book and not spout whatever dumbass shit your online friends say without thought.


 No.2824295

File: 50e98e307d742eb⋯.png (264.68 KB, 605x876, 605:876, Afrikanbourgeoisie.PNG)

>>2824292

Related passage, one of an entire chapter.


 No.2824306

File: 3c799e03c7e3444⋯.jpg (109.16 KB, 619x1000, 619:1000, 3c799e03c7e3444deb8f845b72….jpg)

>>2823392

>I doubt any "woke-scolds" turned someone into a lib centrist or violent racist.

>>2823912

>read "Settlers: Mythology of the White Proletariat"

Just came here to say, from the bottom of my heart: fuck you.

I spent a few years falling for the swan song of the right specifically because of "woke-scolds" (or SJWs, or Idpolers, or whatever the new fucking term for these annoying twats are) and fell into some rather dark, disgusting beliefs. Pulling myself out of that terrible place took a great deal of time and patience from some legitimately good comrades, and so the people unironically endorsing a piece of trash like Settlers or whining that "Woke-Scolds don't make anyone racist!" are doing more harm than good.

Yes, woke-scolds and SJWs do make people racist. Because they're abusive, mean spirited, assholes–and it only takes a few right wingers hugbombing you after some piece of garbage insists that "White people can't be communists because muh Sakai!" to get you to treat their ideas seriously.

>"Hurr, Hurr, but they can just educate themselves on Communism!"

You think that, once they've been convinced of right wing ideology, that wont educate themselves on communism eventually? Well they'll argue with leftists enough that inevitably they run into a guy who knows his theory and end up realizing the utter incoherence of fascism, y'know what happens then?

Fucking nothing. Maybe they get angrier. Maybe, ironically enough, they become postmodernists. But they don't just fucking "give in" because they have a personal hatred against all "leftists" and they'd sooner watch the world burn than concede that maybe Marx was right.

>"Buh why?"

Because they hate you. They hate every sneering egotistical woke-scold who they imagine smugly sneering down at them and demanding an apology. Because they loathe the idea of submitting to such a rotten type of person from their very core.

Hell, half the time these people rarely harbor any actual racial hatred, but rather develop it because they fucking hate the nutjobs who like to front themselves as anti-racists. Even if you prove every last bit of their theory wrong, they just become more militant in their opposition to you.

So from someone who could've spent their time doing something much more productive than wallowing in near-constant hatred: Fuck You. Fuck Sakai. Fuck Settlers. And Fuck Woke-Scolds.


 No.2824311

File: 0b228328fce0233⋯.png (193.21 KB, 665x1000, 133:200, 2aac3bd7c791ba12573dbb1fb8….png)

>>2824306

As an aside, since I'm sure I've pissed a few people off already–so why not go full bore?

Fuck every cringeworthy Maoist trying to show how edgy they are with the constant use of autistic terminology like "AmeriKa" or "AfriKans". Fuck this insistence that "hurr, westerners are all labor aristocrats, muh no first world proletariat".

I bust my ass day in and day out working. Actually working full time. I do retail work. I have to listen to a bunch of bougie idiots with their petty fucking problems day in and day out, I have to deal with people who'll demand "fresh money" if the god damn change they're getting back looks too dirty for their liking. I'm white. I'm straight. But beyond all of that I'm working class and I hate, with a fiery fucking passion, the constant fucking groveling that's expected of you if work in the service industry.

So no, I'm not fighting for anyone else's fucking revolution. I'm not fighting for third worlders. I'm not fighting for African-Americans or Latinos. I'm not a communist for any interest but my own, class interest–and if a bunch of fucking toddlers want to insist that because of some superficial bullshit that some dumb cunt wrote in a book back in the 80's, I can't be a communist? Well then fuck them, I'll still be a God damn communist even if I have to make my own fucking party for it. If no minorities join because those same fucking toddlers insisted that solidarity "won't work" or tried to rewrite some racial paranoiac narrative about the "inherent duplicity of the white working class" then fuck them, they can sit around and circle jerk about how they're the "real" proletariat while occasionally hissing and snapping at me.

But I don't fucking care about being a good person or a tolerant person or what the fuck have you. I care about living a nice, stable, comfortable, quiet life and Communism is the means to achieve that for myself and my class. Anyone expecting more free fucking service or labor from me to them because of some glorified moralizing can go fuck themselves.


 No.2824318

>>2824311

>I don't fucking care about being a good person or a tolerant person or what the fuck have you. I care about living a nice, stable, comfortable, quiet life and Communism is the means to achieve that for myself and my class. Anyone expecting more free fucking service or labor from me to them because of some glorified moralizing can go fuck themselves.

Based tbh.


 No.2824339

>>2824292

He thinks that white people can’t be prols. This is ethno-natioanlism.


 No.2824343

File: c09bc4d3db86aba⋯.jpg (59.73 KB, 720x588, 60:49, c09bc4d3db86abaea74dd1739e….jpg)

>>2824311

>>2824306

I agree with the sentiment but not the hostility. In a way your posts reminds me of the woke-scolds themselves tbh


 No.2824346

>>2824343 (me)

Forgot to mention that what is lacking in your posts is something very common in leftist discourse, the desire to propose a solution or reconciliation.


 No.2824349

>>2824290

>This thread is about how mean it is to "woke-scold" someone for being a catholic reactionary or a nazibol.

Most people in this thread have been complaining about the use of the woke-scold call-out on the left. No one cares if it's "mean" in and of itself; the OP complains about its deployment toward people making attempts to learn more (that is, antagonism by default toward outsiders), and a specific experience involving the use of the woke-scold style to police others on the left. Call-out culture is mainly a phenomenon among Anglosphere professional-managerial types and those who aspire thereto regardless.

>especially in America where short-term degenerate and hyperconsumerist material interests usually won out against any prolonged racial solidarity.

"Degeneracy" is generally an idealist trope, and the idea behind consumerism is that one's identity is constructed in such a way that it divorces the subject from the material interests of one's class by creating identification with some product or company. For a Sakaist, this should not matter regardless, given that the identification of whites or "Euro-Amerikans" (it's hard to stifle one's laughter) would not be an identification with the proletariat; "hyperconsumerist material interests" is at best a misuse of terms, or it's a general misunderstanding of consumerism.

>This is then attributed to """neoliberalism""" (many of them are too afraid to call it capitalism) culture and identity politics, even though the literal idea behind liberal identity politics is counter-revolutionary.

These specific features are not common to capitalism in general, so it would be more correct to identify them with the form of capitalism in which the features surfaced rather than capitalism as a whole.


 No.2824419

>>2822260

lmao and if they let every terf and transphobe in then she'll bitch about the left becoming nazis


 No.2824428

>>2824419

Does she even hate terfs? Or even transphobes?


 No.2824491

File: fad6a1984d72faf⋯.jpg (2.33 MB, 4032x2268, 16:9, 20190224_224220.jpg)

File: abc8213aa366c70⋯.jpg (2.48 MB, 4032x2268, 16:9, 20190224_224234.jpg)

In the US, "Libertarian" can sometimes pass for "left-wing". For personal amusement, I took "American History II" at a local college and have found that the professor is an actual libertarian trying to push anti-union, anti-regulation propaganda onto an entire class of about 45 people. Almost nobody seems to challenge him. It is really worrying. Pics VERY related.


 No.2824580


 No.2824877

>>2824349

Sorry, can't say the same for me. I've never been "woke-scolded" or seen it happen because someone was trying to learn. Maybe you should just have better social skills, or seek people with some.

Opportunism in favor of a short-term benefit *is* fun of the highest degree, just not the kind the right-wing talks about. Especially when it involves abusing women and disenfranchised nationalities. The point you make about hyperconusmerism literally proves my point; why do you think white supremacists, moderate Republicans, Democrats, and FDR liberals all make their "mission" to bring back the idea of the 60s and 70s when talking to the working-class? Not only is it a useful rhetorical tool, it was a monumental loss for the communist movement because of a disidentification as a class, but as a nation which took either racialist or civic nationalist undertones. And it worked, lots of people enjoyed it, unless you were the person being affected by Jim Crow, or coal mine automization.


 No.2824881

>>2824306

why are you crying dude lmao im literally a white working-class communist. if you become a racist because people are mean to you online then you're a dumbass with no moral backbone.


 No.2824899

>>2824311

why is your entire rant about "fighting for yourself" but then you go onto talk about "your class"

you sound like some chapo trap house idiot who said my friend was a "policy nerd" because he criticized Bernie's medicare for all plan, which didn't cover long-term hospital visits. muh "fuck you i want mine" attitude.


 No.2824908

>>2824311

Moralizing """Leftist""" Negro-Lovers: Killing people for money or letting people die because you think it will make you poorer is bad, socialism is the way out of this situation.

Me, sane person who posts cat porn: Fuck You Faggot!!!


 No.2824939

>>2824311

Left Twitter Arguments Turned Me Into a Neo-Nazi: How I Was Victimized, and How I Got Out of the Life


 No.2824954

I have been "woke-scolded" to my face, actually. But I learned that the guy who did it was just an asshole. If you become a neo-Nazi because you've been woke-scolded you probably fucked up somewhere.


 No.2825001

>>2824881

Yeah you’re white, you don’t get a free pass for malignant idiocy you dumb cunt. If you’re trying to establish some stupid notion that you’re immune to a stupid idea because it would harm you; then one only needs look at the strange band of Jews that supported the Nazis to see that there is no idea too stupid for an idiot to adopt.

>>2824939

>>2824908

>>2824899

And we see repeated ad nauseum the same argument repeated by all you faggots whenever anyone calls you out on your shit: a total dismissal of how you act under this abstract term that you’re just being “mean”. Most important is that you never dispute that maybe you DO make people turn to the right after dealing with your incessant faggotry, but that it doesn’t matter because “Hurr, they were just thin skinned anyways.”

You ARE contributing to less leftists and more rightists, but that doesn’t matter to you because you aren’t a revolutionary, you’re a dickless narcissist getting some “morality high” from cosplaying as some “heroic revolutionary”

You and the gaggle of fucking pigs that make up your subculture aren’t despised because you’re just “mean”, no one gives a shit about the “nastiness” (although it does show that you’re just an internet autist, it’s only on the internet that sneering at people for being annoyed by your cunty attitude is socially acceptable) but the fact you infect every actual leftist space with your cancerous attitude and drive actual action and discussion to a halt.

Your attitude is an incoherent mess of self contradicting positions that you use just to power trip and stroke your ego.


 No.2825026

>>2824899

Because your class is the only fucking thing that matters. Race is a fucking joke. Nationality and ethnicity are God damn jokes. They change to suit the interest of the ruling elite. I don’t know who those Chapo guys are, but if they call you idiots out on your stupid fucking idealism then God bless them.

This is a great example of what I am talking about though: you and your fucking subculture are Marxists because you’re in your twenties and going through some stupid existential crisis you just figured out now the world sucks and the foundations of modern civilization are hollow, so you occupy your time with fantasies and political religion to stave off the ultimate meaninglessness of your existence.

You can afford to support mindbending retardation like Settlers because whether a revolution even happens is of no fucking concern to you, what matters is trying to fill your stupid psychological void with political entertainment and some illusion of meaning.

I’m a Marxist because I have fucking bills to pay. I have to concern myself with where I'm going to live in a couple years. I’m a Marxist because in a few years Capitalism is going to ruin the fucking planet and I don’t like the idea of shit looking like Mad Max thanks to climate change. I’m a Marxist because I am in my twenties and my back already hurts when I get out of bed, and I have seen what decades of service has done to my parents—who will be lucky if they can even fucking retire. I’m a Marxist because I work so much that the days start blending together, because I can’t even remember what month it is sometimes, and that’s terrifying.

I don’t have time for a bunch of fucking NEETs who can afford self-defeating ultra left communism because they engage with these ideas to entertain themselves rather than see any material benefit in their daily lives.


 No.2825030

>>2825026

this is the turboautistic revolutionary spirit modern communism needs these days


 No.2825052

>>2825030

What Communism needs is to actually be political again.

Most splits in communist parties are over the most stupid, autistic fucking bullshit. I have seen more bullshit internet autists fight like chimps over Trotsky than I ever wanted to see in my life. Far left parties exist exclusively as glorified protest clubs, but protesting accomplishes jack shit and if those parties were banned from protesting, neither the cause nor the world would be any different or changed from how it is now.

For as bad as the fucking Dems and GOP are, they at least understand that they’re political entities and make an effort to exist politically, they at least try to give people a reason to vote for them when they aren’t getting screeching over social issues.

Every party I have seen is immersed in petty fucking Autism; it’s groups of a dozen people feuding with other handfuls of people for being “filthy revisionists” that will ruin the mass movement of potentially a hundred people as they somehow overthrow the government—but “only when the conditions are right.”

Form some mutual aid groups and advertise them, volunteer to care for old people, but a fucking homeless vet a coffee! We’re at the point where modern Marxism is so fucking useless that literally anything would be better than what it’s doing now.


 No.2825073

>>2825052

Hey comrade, say your posts while scrolling. I agree heavily with you. Also, I highly recommend you check out the book Revolutionary Strategy by Mike McNair and Paul Cockshotts appraisal of it. God speed.


 No.2825074

>>2825052

>why are the people who base their entire lives off of researching and pouring over the writers of prior thinkers arguing over this instead of accomplishing (whatever the fuck communism is meant to accomplish or represents in the modern market economy).

It's almost like you've created a religion for hyperautistic neckbeards who accidentally coopted the even more pathetic "gender" crowd.

You're a century too late.

Take the books away - put up some posters.

>>2825026

Oh, and to return to your earlier point: Capitalism hasn't ruined the planet: all the prior "leftist" states embraced the same worldview and operation as "capitalist" countries.

Human endeavor is inherently inimical to life - most prominently in the late 19th and 20th centuries.


 No.2825076

>>2825074

sankara fought against climate change tho based nigga


 No.2825078

>>2825076

>sankara

>relevant

Yeah, sure, he seemed cool though.

Marxism won't change the world.

Ecological collapse will - the only way people ever learn is from disaster.


 No.2825081

>>2825078

>Human endeavor is inherently inimical to life

>Ecological collapse will - the only way people ever learn is from disaster.

How do these two reconcile?


 No.2825089

>>2825081

Posthuman endeavor led by sea-mutants and their cephalopodal sidekicks, obviously.

I don't know - I personally expect capitalism/communism/etc to keep chugging directly into ecological collapse circa ~2100+ with a few attempts at mitigation. The rate of population growth globally has essentially steered us upon that course: Sub-Saharan Africa will be the next to demand living conditions at least comparable to the Western world and that'll probably carry us forward to the end.

Nuclear power and some sort of climate engineering (not that I'd ever really trust an undertaking of such scale) might help but I doubt they'll be undertaken in any meaningful level.

I can imagine a few amusing alternative societies evolving in the aftermath, sure, but none of them seem likely.

I'm more than pleasantly tipsy at this point, excuse my rambling.


 No.2825100

>>2822269

How many of these trannycoms would you say are astroturfing to destroy left solidarity. I have a nagging suspicion a lot of times they are fake activists who could possibly be trolling on behalf of the right wing. As an example:

Backstabbin' Bernie supporters and Hillary Clinton supporters occasionally break into impromptu fights on Twitter. The fights are generally over things any normal human being would have brushed off or forgotten ages ago. Jacob Wohl recently got banned from Twitter after admitting he sets up multiple fake accounts to cause infighting in the Dem party for the specific purpose of getting Trump reelected. Now we here may realize that capitalism will corrupt Backstabbin' Bernie as much as any other capitalist party, but it makes one wonder about the operations played on truly left organizations. Do you think Marxists are getting trolled by trans activists?


 No.2825101

>>2824939

No. But they do pick at underlying resentments. Politics is pretty disgusting, and much of it consists of literal bullying that's tolerated by ideological allies.

>>2824306

The casual anti-male sentiment and fashionable male bashing tolerated and even increasingly celebrated as a virtue by liberals, the left and even left-centrists got to me. I was sensitized to this because of my 'feminist' mother's jealousy of my maleness and her excesses. She loved openly fantasizing about emasculating men who had politics she didn't agree with. For another instance, she said of pro-life males that their mothers should have aborted them. Remember BitingBeaver? She loved to read into me all sorts of evils. She could never quite forgive me for not being the horrors that were the males she grew up with. She even accused me of wanting to harm my brother because she had a dream in which I stabbed him! Crazy bitch! No, that's wrong. She doesn't love anybody. She's not a bitch, she's a cunt. I could go on with endless examples of the horror she was.

But I'm mostly over my anger now, but I am left with q deep disgusted of idpol and an indifference to women. But the people I organize with don't need to know this. In fact, it's up to them to imagine why I never help with women's issues projects:) Can't boot me out for insufficient enthusiasm for the party line!


 No.2825120

>>2825100

COINTELPRO has used identity politics before as a tactic so i wouldn't be surprised


 No.2825124

>>2825101

well you are just an asshole then


 No.2825194

>>2825101

Fam you need therapy


 No.2826044


 No.2826046

>>2826044

take a dick pill


 No.2826298

>>2826216

Are you saying this isn't true? The county sheriff where I live (this is an elected position) said during the campaign that he would hospitalize any transgender people he sees using the "wrong" restroom, and got elected in a landslide.


 No.2826305

>>2826298

red state?


 No.2826344

>>2826298

>The county sheriff where I live (this is an elected position) said during the campaign that he would hospitalize any transgender people he sees using the "wrong" restroom, and got elected in a landslide.

Based sheriff.


 No.2826348

>>2826344

each day christcucks make it easier to see their reactionary elements, jesus wouldn't have killed the trannies and he is weeping at you right now, i hope you are happy.


 No.2826350

>>2826348

>Hospitalizing is the same as murdering

nice strawman fag

jesus sure wouldn't have approved of people slicing off their dicks and taking hormones they were never meant to have just to please the spooks in their mind


 No.2826351

>>2826350

jesus wouldn't have approved violence kill yourself or else i'll stab you, not even a spear like the one that killed christ, all you deserve it's a tiny knife


 No.2826353

>>2826351

>Hospitalization is violence

you know this is really great anecdotal evidence that taking all those hormones screw up your brain's ability to process stuff rationally


 No.2826358

>>2826353

i'm not a tranny i'm a fucking mexican petite boy that hates religious niggas


 No.2826360

>>2826358

whatever you say Contrapoints


 No.2826361

>>2826360

do you want me to show you my dick, completely intact although cut because my dad had a circumcision when he was a teenager and he told my mom it was a good idea, fucking up my sexual potential for pleasure forever


 No.2826374

>>2826350

This obsession with gender is a cancerous artifact of western "civilization." Stop posting.


 No.2826380

>>2826374

Take off that flag anyone who advocates for revisionist feminist "gender doesn't exist lmao" """theory""" is no christian.


 No.2826382

>>2826380

too bad i just converted to christianity and i'm a fucking radtranslibfem whatever the fuck and you can't stop me


 No.2826420

>>2826380

The conclusions of "gender doesn't exist lmao" actually is the opposite of what you're implying here. It would mean that gender, as in the cultural ideas of what constitutes a male and female based on societies current views of what is "masculine" and "feminine", isn't actually real or material, leaving only the sex of the individual as a determiner. A male who crossdresses and enjoys having a flamboyant or what is currently seen as a "feminine" personality is merely just a man who does such things. As with a female who enjoys traditionally male clothes and is more direct or "masculine" in her personality is merely a female who does such things. Transgenderism literally requires the idea of essentialized gender to exist, otherwise it becomes a non-sensical concept.


 No.2826422

>>2826344

If you're talking about why you love cops who beat up trans people then you might be on the wrong forum.


 No.2826430

OP: the left should start becoming more realistic and less idpol

200 posts later: we should stop saying faggot tbh.

Faggots, faggots everywhere.


 No.2826434

>>2826430

>idpol is when you try not to say slurs during a conversation

idpol is when you divide the working class by putting race and gender over class itself, sure, language policing could be considered a part of it(since sometimes they will shut your entire argument by saying you said a bad word)but i don't think faggot is the word most people against idpol are mad they can't say, that's just being intentionally obtuse.

i like saying faggot btw, also i'm sleepy


 No.2826435

>>2826434

Faggot is one of the most commonly used word nowadays, same for nigger.

Trying to language POLICING is idpol.

When anyone says I should stop saying faggot, I call that faggot a nigger faggot.


 No.2826438

>>2826435

in imageboards that's to be expected, it won't work irl or leddit so be careful comrade, at least short nigger to nig and faggot to fag.


 No.2826439

You cannot be Marxist and anti-racist. You cannot be Marxist and homosexual or even tolerate homosexuality. You cannot be a Marxist and not want to have only as racially healthy children as possible. You cannot be a Marxist and believe in "free love". You cannot be a Marxist and at the same time be what Christians call a "humanist". 

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.2826443

>>2826438

It works IRL, just not on most on the internet because written words are easily reported.


 No.2826444

>>2826439

i think i'm over with this board


 No.2826445

File: 01edd15a9301013⋯.png (2.49 MB, 2738x1658, 1369:829, sjw = cointelpro.png)

File: efbabcab5e396d9⋯.jpg (867.79 KB, 1568x2146, 784:1073, 1e0cbb197fcc6c72ded760fbdf….jpg)

>>2825100

>How many of these trannycoms would you say are astroturfing to destroy left solidarity.

literally all of them


 No.2826598

>>2826361

>wahh i can't sex how i want all the time

you are a faggot


 No.2826600

>>2826598

nigger do you know how much a tight circumcision can affect your sensitivity? it was a really tight one, they even cut my frenulum, meaning i won't be able to get a foreskin restoration as good as i would get if i had it. I literally can't masturbate without lotion and blowjobs hurt like hell, i don't even want to imagine what actually having sex feels like. Believe me i don't like whinning about it, but it is a shitfuck


 No.2827042

>>2825089

>I don't know - I personally expect capitalism/communism/etc to keep chugging directly into ecological collapse circa ~2100+

If we survive the ecological collapse by 2075 than we’ll win forever.By that point technological society will be so powerful not even nature can stop it.


 No.2827043

>>2827042

>muh technology will save us

ha, typical trot, trots should get trot'd upon if you know what i'm saying


 No.2827046

>>2827043

Just look at how much technology has changed society so far.


 No.2827047


 No.2827057

File: e96e060db5e885e⋯.jpg (14.53 KB, 600x450, 4:3, merlin_135847308_098289a6-….jpg)


 No.2827061

>>2827042

Define "we" and "win"

Because we all might end up enslaved to megacorps with no hope of escape for the rest of eternity. That doens't seem like winning.


 No.2827063

>>2827061

This Zizek talk comes to mind, where he talks about a capitalist world that has assimilated China's disgusting mix of capitalism and communism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=545x4EldHlg

Minute mark 23:30


 No.2827064

>>2827063

SHIT I MEANT 22:30


 No.2827074

>>2827063

>>2827061

the falling rate of profit won’t allow capitalism to survive past 2100.


 No.2827448

>>2827445

haha one tranny that didn't like it all trannies that did like it must be so embarassed


 No.2827451

>>2827449

two so far


 No.2827452

>>2827449

>Gross-out images are an argument


 No.2827456

>>2827449

Most transexuals do not get that surgery.

You will not wake up in a world where literally every other guy transitions and goes through that surgery.

After private property is abolished and self-determination is the norm, there will be less people becoming transsexuals.


 No.2840057

>>2826046

Get fucked, nigger.


 No.2840090

>>2840057

take a black dick pill


 No.2851456

>>2824311

>paranoiac narrative about the "inherent duplicity of the white working class"

bucko, this entire post is a testament to the duplicity of settlers lmao


 No.2855250

File: 8c958041caba555⋯.png (15.62 KB, 478x175, 478:175, sakai.PNG)

>>2824295

Yep, definitely not ethno nationalism


 No.2855303


 No.2855323

>>2825101

>my mom

>biting beaver

Brandon, we finally found you


 No.2855324

>>2823912

>read settlers

better idea: don't. it's shit trash written by a moron for retards


 No.2855408

>>2823460

this tbh, just dont engage those retards, they will come around if we ever get any success cause most are just following the trend


 No.2855415

>>2824346

thats the thing though, leftists discord stem from true, powerful disagreement on theory.

why would we even want to reconcile with these guys when we're convinced they're retards that would actually hinder us


 No.2855416

>>282489

>why

because he actually understands communism you idiot


 No.2855468

>>2824306

Except that right wingers LOVE bootlicking cops and submitting to landlords.


 No.2855470

>>2855415

>>2824346

We both know exactly what the solution is; the problem is getting people to commit to action and not continue circle jerking and virtue signalling.


 No.2855485

File: 341bdfa4eaba859⋯.png (549.16 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, 341bdfa4eaba8594c3d1b47b7a….png)


 No.2855488

>>2825026

And so what are you doing to see any material benefit in your life?


 No.2855491

>>2825052

>dude, just do some charity

Yeah, and capitalism is just philanthropy


 No.2855499

>>2823912

Have you really read the book "Affirmative action empie",retard? Because according to the book "korenizatsiya" was fucking disaster in some regions. In many cases it just caused more ethnic hatred somewhere even segregation.


 No.2855519

>>2823912

>muh Fisher is an academic

And what? How does that make his points invalid?>>2823912

>it is just campus drama

What? IdPol is just campus drama? Or internet drama?These people aren't real? They aren't members of real parties irl?

>read Sakai

Your Sakai is just brainlet, who don't even know what the definition of proletariat is. His books are only good for black ethno nationalists who LARP as maoists.

>read "Affirmative action empire"

And you have read it? It has like 500 pages, not like "Settlers" or Maos "Little red book".

You know, Lenin was just "academic", who didn't know much about national question in Russian empire. But Stalin knew, he himself was Georgian, so he experienced many of that problems by himself. And that's why he criticized Lenin for "liberalism" in this question. "Korenizatsiya" really wasn't succesful project.


 No.2855538

Socialism will win when the proletariat races are restored to supremacy over the kikes and ape people and atheism and sex faggotry are fully purged


 No.2855539

File: c05650e93d0fc5b⋯.jpg (442.74 KB, 1900x1425, 4:3, c05650e93d0fc5b4f2a8a54ff1….jpg)

>>2855538

Based and baboonpilled. Have an upvote brother.


 No.2855542

>>2822999

Fuck of Dave Strano you rapist. Social capital and personality cults are the real cancer killing leftism


 No.2855698

>Elitest leftists general

I thought the point of a proletariat or average citizen movement was that it had to recruit workers to their side? Most leftist i see these days are arogant know-it-alls who ostracise every poor soul who wanted to better society. Their excuse most of the time comes down to "Muh principles and intellectual movement", something which is complete bullshit and damage control. I want a real movement of people who embrace others and don't ostracise eachother when they use the wrong fucking pronoun for gods sake. Applying Marx's theories to social issues like gender/race was the worst thing that happened to socialism.


 No.2855702

>>2855698

>don't ostracise eachother when they use the wrong fucking pronoun for gods sake. Applying Marx's theories to social issues like gender/race was the worst thing that happened to socialism.

No one here does that.


 No.2855706

>>2855702

I'm more talking about the left in general.


 No.2867471

bump


 No.2867569

>>2823404

>Mark Fisher

>edgy

Did you even read it or is that some wisdom that you heard about that piece?

>the very thought of acknowledging race classifications in America as having a material basis

is literally the opposite of what idpol tards claim. According to them, the idea of racism lead to slavery.

>and thus white racism in the white working-class having a material basis through the politics of an Empire-friendly labor aristocracy

You don't know what any of these words could possibly mean and you don't care. Surplus extraction happens at the point of production. You would need to show how porky squeezes the black man (that's not the hard part) and then shares some of that with the white co-workers of the black man, and why would he do that? You haven't found a solution to that puzzle and you haven't even thought about it, you don't actually think about what these words you shit out mean when real human beings use them. You're like a Markov chain.


 No.2867650

The way to fix the left is very simple.

1. Ostracize all anarchists (this solves the trans question).

2. Stop pathologizing masculinity.

3. Realize that alt-right people are more easily swayed than liberals.

4. Understand that marginalized groups are capable of lying and exaggerating.

5. Stop thinking that media consumption choices determine ideology.

6. MOST IMPORTANTLY: stop stylistically emulating somethingawful posters and weird twitter users for christ's sake. That shit was stale ten years ago.




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