>and mobilizing that reserve army and expanding it has gotten more efficient to the point now where strikes are irrelevant in the first world.
This is quite clearly bollocks there are hundreds of recent examples of strikes and other worker mobilisation winning gains.
>When has a strike in the west done something to further socialism?
I could give so many examples, rent strikes in Glasgow, the Dublin Lock Out, miners strikes etc. What i would like you to tell me is what has done more for the cause of socialism than strikes?
Also you have now shifted the goalposts. You refuse to concede that UBI acts like a strikefund, in the first instance this is what we were arguing, now you have been backed into a corner suddenly we are arguing about the relevance of strikes. So you concede, if striking is a good thing, UBI helps strikers.. yes?
>getting UBI does not mean you're suddenly out of the reserve army of labor.
the reserve army of labour are the unemployed who are trying to get back into work. If you are not trying, you do not represent any downwards pressure on wages.
As i have already gone through in the this thread, i have read Marx, the last person who told me to read Marx then couldn't tell me which bit, so, which bit of Marx am i supposed to be reading where he says if you are on UBI you are part of the reserve army of labour?
Why do you refuse nuance? Clearly the conditions of someone who is unemployed and penniless are different to someone who is unemployed but is on UBI. Its like saying someone who lives off stock dividends is still part of the reserve army of labour.
>no, this is the goal of communists
yes well done you believe in revolution. Okay, so how do you bring about revolution. Can i ask have you ever actually organised anything in your life? You do realise its a long term process, a slog, not just something that springs up.
>I don't think "bargaining power" is the right word here.
it is exactly the right word, wages are decided through bargaining. I am specifically talking about UBI as it enhances bargaining power, so why would we not talk about it in those terms?
The New deal and post war reforms DID increase the bargaining power of the worker though, do you think it was better before the world wars? Just because it was then brutally pushed backed during the cold war does not mean it wasnt a gain in the first place.
>and yet there are communist revolutions there and not here.
conditions there are different, the state is weaker, the national bourgeoisie is not completely aligned with international bourgeoisie, its completely different
>And my response to that is that increased succdem policies is a way for the bourgeois to pay off the working class to not revolt.
ignore debt relief, ignore the power that is brought through a greater ability to strike, ignore health and education
>Communist revolution has been possible for over 100 years
>Power isn't the issue , willingness to do revolution is and UBI kills that.
what is your reason behind people being unwilling to revolt? Do you think they aren't starving quite enough or something? Power is the issue, the organs of working class power were attacked, subverted and destroyed systematically.
If there is no will to revolution revolution is impossible, you contradict yourself.
>Milton Friedman suggested just that in regards to UBI
oh militon friedman said it so it must be valid.
>production cost of most things is incredibly small compared to the markup any given goods already has.
>is one reason why lowering the minimum wage is suggested by UBI capitalists.
and yet nowhere have i suggested that, so im not gonna argue for points im not making.
>I'm saying "upward pressure" as a result of UBI is only relevant IF a person is willing to strike and live off of 12k.
which they are much more likely to do than living off nothing when they strike. Really couldnt be simpler
>The argument could be made that people would rather accept their conditions so long as they can keep their spending habits.
which has always been the case and yet people strike still
>again, on the topic of upward pressure. I said that it only works if you are willing to live off of 12k.
which is better than living off nothing like your usual striker
>ok thats how prices work.
prices are relative to other things in the market like wage levels and income, prices going up does not necessarily meaning real term spending goes up. You are either ignorant or being deliberately obtuse
>you said "UBI is going to become inevitable under capitalism "
no i didnt
>ust because you end US wars doesn't mean imperialist is stopped or even slowed it could be easily replaced with something else puppet governments etc
but that isnt what she is suggesting she is suggesting an end to foriegn intervention all together