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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: b43b6277e1ebc30⋯.jpg (360.47 KB, 2000x1270, 200:127, industryplant0000001.jpg)

File: 206eefeb0e5dc7f⋯.png (354.13 KB, 781x399, 781:399, billieeyelashes.png)

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Seeing this girl’s name and face literally everywhere for the past eight months - and especially now that her first album has been released to massive fanfare and critical acclaim - has really got me thinking about her whole backstory, the subject of “industry plants”, and what it says about the modern culture industry in general. While it’s true pop music (and the majority of the culture industry) has always been a corporate-created façade, what stands out in Billie’s case in particular is: 1. the manufacturing of her rise to fame is much more obvious than it was for pop stars in the past, and 2. a large amount of her fame can be attributed to her misappropriating a subculture known to be DIY, and also her image as a so-called “socially conscious” voice amidst the muck of the face-tatted-coloured-locs era.

Billie grew up in a gentrified neighbourhood of Los Angeles a stonethrow away from Hollywood. Her parents are actors and musicians with a long list of credits stretching back 40 years, her mother also teaching songwriting and screenwriting to industry professionals. Her brother Finneas O’Connell is an actor who has been on hit TV shows and is also a successful musician himself. According to interviews Billie has given, she and Finneas were homeschooled specifically so they could focus on acting, singing, and dancing rather than conventional academics. In other words, she wasn’t just born with a foot in the culture industry, she was raised within its waters. Her time in music began at age 14 when she recorded vocals to a song Finneas wrote and produced for his band (“Ocean Eyes”) which “just happened” to go viral once it was posted to SoundCloud. Shortly after, she was signed to Interscope Records; she had almost no prior musical experience before being signed (e.g. she was never part of an underground/local music scene, was never in a band, never made a bunch of demo tapes), which should come off as pretty sketchy to say the least. Interscope proceeded to flood her music all over platforms like Spotify and Apple Music, get her a plethora of interviews in highly credible publications, and got her going on two world tours despite at the time only having released an EP. But most of all, she has an overwhelming amount of social media clout, especially on Instagram where she currently holds 16 million followers. It could be said she’s known more for her presence on the platform than her actual music (i.e. everyone knows who she is but no one can name any of her songs). If this isn’t a textbook example of a major label planting an artist, I don’t know what is.

Billie’s image underwent a profound change sometime around early 2018 without explanation. She shed any impression she once had of being a cute little alternative pop princess for “SoundCloud rap” attire. All of a sudden she was wearing baggy designer clothes with a neck full of real chains, and began flaunting her friendships with said “SoundCloud rappers” all over her social media (most notably with XXXTentacion; she rambled on about him during her Montreality interview done two months after his death to ensure everyone knew the two of them had been close friends). She also adopted a cheesy accent reminiscent of “ghetto” black vernacular despite being white as snow and raised in a gentrification cesspool. Her actual music, however, did not change as the singles she put out remained soft alternative pop, not the blaring Miami scene-inspired trap music of her new found friends.

Media publications, however, have remained highly sympathetic to her, writing about her as if she’s a teenage sage, a soft voice of mindfulness looking to mourn over a culture of destructive self-indulgence. Her music, unfortunately, doesn’t even come close to reflecting this, probably because she simply doesn’t have much of a base to draw upon (she is still a sheltered suburban white girl, after all). She doesn’t sing about political issues and very rarely does she really touch upon the grim realities of everyday life under late capitalism. Her song “Xanny”, which is my personal favourite from her new album, does speak about youth drug culture but has little substance to it overall. Her songs focusing on teen depression come off as petty with, again, very little integrity. Ironically, the one instance of her fully venturing into the trap/industrial genre is also the only song where she doesn’t sound soulless and cavalier: her uncredited feature with Denzel and J.I.D. (certainly because she’s singing Denzel’s words, rather than something Finneas pre-wrote for her).




I don’t believe Billie is a villain. I do believe however Billie is a victim, as it’s clear she’s being massively exploited by Interscope as an easy cash cow. Her entire time in music has been corporate-controlled and bankrolled. She’s received loads of promotion via big-name interviews and social media before releasing a single full-length album or getting a song in the Billboard Top 10. Even pop star plants of the past would at least garner a Top 10 hit or two before the influx of media coverage. And to reiterate, yes, this is how the music industry has always been and how the vast majority of pop stars are invented, but this case is especially striking. No one would care if Ariana Grande was revealed to be a completely manufactured star, because no one sees her as anything but a manufactured pop star with a pretty voice and look, but Billie’s whole appeal is that she’s *not* Ariana; in some ways she’s presented as the antithesis of Ariana, a seemingly dark, edgy girl who sings about “real shit”. I’d argue Billie’s case is the proverbial spark which causes the prairie fire since her suspiciously instant rise to fame is getting people talking about the inner workings of the music industry more than ever. Yes, it’s always been this way, but the discourse has now shifted to the point where normies have become more aware and terms like “industry plant” have entered their lexicon.


I know you’re a grad student because you write a lot without saying anything.



Fair enough.


> Late Stage Capitalism

This was used since the 1930's. It's been almost a century now stop using this shit term.


Nigga if my name was Finneas I would first kill whoever decided that name was a good choice and then kill myself.



Their parents are probably hippies. They were homeschooled after all.


The music and entertainment industry is one of the few where the exploitation is relatively low, at least for the mainstream artists. Dont feel sorry for Eilish, feel sorry for the writers/producers who will go unmentioned, the stage hands who will go unaccredited for her tours, and the listeners to have to listen to her music. Youre making interesting observations but unless this is a discussion about how capital limits art, Eilish is almost 100% irrelevant to politics


>appropriates the aesthetic of proles

>grew up in a stable, affluent family

>LARPs about her background and values in her music

>surrounds herself with “woke” musicians

Sounds no different from your average hipster TBH fam.


isnt the media market going to produce whatever people like the best?

every fucker on earth wants to make it in LA. its pretty much just a sea of personalities that media managers can select from. whoever fits the current trendy profile get it

not really that bizarre or unexpected



I was more so drawing on ideas from thinkers like Marcuse or Debord in terms of how "counter culture" is just as easily processed and sold to consumers as anything blatantly top-down. Billie is the "anti-pop star" who ends up selling a million records and gets an album bomb on Billboard, who just happened to be the perfect material for a major label to sculpt.

It's analogous to how Sbux will set up "local" coffee houses sans logo.



This i can get down with. With the extended relationship between economic and state elites, it could be argued that the music industry is an ideological state apparatus, and this would be a very good example of it.



Can you even be a undergraduate of anything and working class?

>As of last March, 30.4 percent of people over age 25 in the United States held at least a bachelor's degree, and 10.9 percent held a graduate degree, up from 26.2 percent and 8.7 percent 10 years earlier.

Seems like the working class is ya know… working. Leterally none of my friends or family went to college, 60% of the kids in my school didn’t even graduate high school.


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>30% of the population are not workers

spicy hot take anon



Workers or not, they're not revolutionary.

If you earn a wage but have a degree, own property, own investments, make more than $100k a year, and otherwise live indistinguishably from the petite-bourgeoisie… why would you support a revolution?





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>Everyone who has an education, owns their own home, or invests their savings wisely is categorically counter-revolutionary

Wow! Your conception of Marxism is so lifestylist and elitist as to be completely useless! Good job anon :^)




This song is ass, just like your thread OP.



Do undergraduates (of anything really) even make 100k a year? Sorry if the question is too ignorant, I'm not american. But that does seem like an absurd amount of money.



Finance possibly, or IT and engineering maybe but even they usually need a masters



I think he’s making the correct point. That the working class (the actual working class) doesn’t succeed in college for a number of reasons. For instance when I started school I didn’t even know when an associates degree ment or what Fasfa was. I literally was not capable of going to college that first year because I grew up in a poor community where no one went to college. I also had to pay my own bills so juggling work and school became pointless. When I wasn’t gonna make money off my degree I would be better off in the workforce. Because I don’t have anybody supporting me.

Far too often especially here do I see privileged middle-class kids who don’t even realize they’re privileged or middle class. They’ve never lived in the ghetto They’ve been homeless or grew up without a telephone or internet.

Not to mention the people in poor communities tend to have shit family lives and do poorly in school and aren’t well educated enough to succeed in college. That was me and all my friends.



lol owned



A lot of middle class kids call themselves "poor" because they can't afford as much as the rich kids.



>the actual working class only consists of people who have been homeless or lived in the ghetto

jesus I think the 'bourgeoisie' now outnumber the actual workers 3:1 at least, and I thought the revolution was hopeless before.

Succeeding in college doesn't really mean shit today anyways, graduates are fighting dropouts for minimum wage bullshit jobs, sure some of us on here grew up poorer or richer than others but does that actually matter? I mean isn't Marxism supposed to be about liberation of the workers not just the most underprivileged minority? Sounds a little dare I say liberal.


Historically speaking the middle class are poor.


>tfw OP starts a thread with a great observation and it immediately gets derailed into something completely unrelated

Never change /leftypol/.



touche, to be fair I was defending OP though and anyways they started iiiitttttt.

(also I dunno who the fuck this is)



Answer the question - why would they want a revolution? Their lives are already good enough under capitalism, and a revolution would introduce risk for little gain for themselves. Their only interest in socialism would be moralistic or idealistic, and this is EXACTLY what we see in the real world among middle class "socialists" in the first world. Or do you REALLY think one of these middle class college educated workers would be willing to die in a revolution?




Make another thread about grad students if you're going to discuss the subject.

This thread is about the culture industry.



But anon are /you/ willing to die for the revolution?



Yeah thats fair. Sorry for participating in the derail.


File: 98c6f4d2e7cb8ee⋯.png (610.65 KB, 931x447, 931:447, sound-clowns.png)


>She shed any impression she once had of being a cute little alternative pop princess for “SoundCloud rap” attire. All of a sudden she was wearing baggy designer clothes with a neck full of real chains,

>mfw SoundCloud rappers used to look normal

What happened?



Some of them maybe who knows. All i know is eating nothing but potatoes and cheese once every 72 hours for a month straight because your shit comunity doesn’t have the weath nessarry to have a sustainable food bank. An you are leterally starving sure lights a fire under your ass. An is a wake up call you’ll never forget. I never became more voilent then when i went threw that shit. Its a uniqe experience when you leterally have no options.

People treat the poor and homeless like leteral garbage. Thats experience is why im like i am today. Not some fancy education. An there are leterally a million a year who go threw that same experience every year.






If you think everyone with an undergrad degree or even who owns their own home is living high off the hog you must be fucking delusional. I don't even have a job right now and my last one was working retail for £8 an hour. If there's a revolution I can't wait to die in it.


>An there are leterally a million a year who go threw that same experience every year.

If we only can rely on the 80 million or so people who have gone through that in the world for revolution we're already fucked.


To make an response to OP's effortpost, I agree with you but it's also not really surprising, this shit has gone on for decades and this is just a more blatant example, Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift both are products of music/media oligarch families too to name just a few. However I liked the way this was written a lot, you should try submit it to a leftist blog/magazine or something.



Much thanks. I might use it for something in the future.



She sounds like Lana.



i will tolerate no Denzel slander


There's something to be said about how "late-stage" capitalism is about infatalisation, and the pacification of the proles. Everything is pastel colored, or very bright and engaging. Were transition from the later 10s where everything was this sort of neutral, office aesthetic, very sanitized to the new colourful, loud, self aggrandizing culture. 6ixn9ne, XXX, Lil Pump are all the forefront, and Jojo siwa is the future.



Kind of ironic how Billie is touring with him, given as to how at this point she IS the clown from the Clout Cobain video.



To be fair, Bob Dylan did all this shit too.



hmmm theres something to be made of the un-aesthetic. the music video for you should see me in a crown is highly unsettling for most people, and theres a macabre fascination with the uncomfortable, in my opinion more so than past decades.



I mean, it's very marketable in today's climate. Since 2014 the charts have been dominated by slow and dark shit, hence why trap music is everywhere.


File: 104a6905a610111⋯.mp4 (764.21 KB, 400x226, 200:113, A5BB1DD8-80CB-4019-9DC2-41….mp4)


90.38% of American workers earned less than $100k a year as of 2017.

48% don’t even make $30k.


You’re referring to a pretty small sliver of the population.



More households do make that much though. I wouldn’t be surprised if at least over 20% of households made 100k+. Maybe even 30%. 200k+ is a real thin range though. That may be the 1%.




Please take this to a different thread.



This fucking “households” bullshit. As if there’s no difference between a “household” with two working adults earning $25k a year and one with only one working adult earning $50k.

But as you can see, not that many Americans even earn above 50k. 68% earn less than $50k, and you would need two of those in the same household to get above a $100k yearly household income.



That observation is banal as fuck tbh. Even non-Marxist already noticed it with Conquest of Cool


she looks weird and i don't like her music, probably because i'm too old for teenage stars and generally never liked pop music, because i figure most of it is superficial effort triggering the lowest common denominator in order to make a lot money.

her growing up in a family of artists/musicians and continuing the family tradition is something to be admired rather than being subject of critique though. it has nothing to with communism vs. capitalism, she could do the same under communism.



Home ownership is heavily promoted in the USA precisely because it turns people reactionary.


File: 8a3acd0abf91643⋯.png (141.21 KB, 689x367, 689:367, porkyvsprolecc.png)


By "clown" I mean it in the sense that her label is throwing money at her non-stop hoping she'll do a trick (be it make a hit, do another interview, or just do something attention-grabbing on social media to get her name out there). Think about it. Billie's entire musical existence thus far has been bankrolled by Interscope; there was never a time she was making music for an audience without a major label backing. She's literally a label slave even if she doesn't see herself that way.

Now to be fair, one could make the argument that Denzel's background is a wee bit sketchy as well given that he - despite being from one of the worst parts of Florida - did go to an elite arts high school where he was classically trained in theatre and fine arts and whatnot (could very well be the reason why he's much more talented than his contemporaries). However, you know as well as I do after being thrown out of school he did a lot of shit with the underground Miami hip hop scene, hooked up with SGP and all the OG SoundCloud dudes. Compare that to his figurative child bride and how she was immediately thrown into the mainstream with only one song in her name (which she had no part in making aside from vocals).



Yeah but there's welfare programs in America.


i dont know who this iiiiisss



She's the industry's 30th attempt at replicating Lorde.







OP I agree.

What are your thoughts about class-conscious people, like you, pointing out such ideological apparatus of the bourgeois state AND creating a culture of the proles themselves (at the superstructure) while at the same time also waging a revolution in the base. I don't think there is any other solution other than that.

I think along with your analysis of this pop singer, you should think about her position in the first world. Like obviously things would have been different had she been raised like this in the third world, if we assume she has been raised the way you tell she has been.



What do you mean? Like a postcolonial analysis?



to this i'd add that this could be a way of making others feel that they too can 'achieve' stuff like that and that since this is 'possible', their conditions are the result of their 'failures', not failures of the system



What do you mean by a 'post-colonial' analysis?

I wanted to point out this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterhegemony



Most industry plants like Billie and Clairo are often portrayed as "youth making pop songs in their bedrooms who just happened to get lucky and go viral" when in reality their families have industry connections and could get them promoted and signed, then payola'd into stardom.

Here's a video on the subject. It's mostly about Clairo but he mentions Billie too, also Justin Bieber and Lana Del Rey.




Rightly said.

Thanks for the video, no wonder it has so less views even if other videos like it exist. For dumb content, thousands of videos with same content will get promoted, but not videos like the one you sent.



Also related:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8LxORztUWY [The Late Capitalism of K-Pop]



I was waiting for someone to post this one.



To add, OP talks about that pop singer being exploited.

I think in the K-Pop industry as told in this video, you can see real exploitation of children. It's like a camp of children.


Why didn't you post it yourself? Is it unrelated?


>be me

>see what’s trending on YouTube

>new Billie Eilish video is #1, song is entitled Bad Guy

>watch video, okay song, video seems kind of incoherent but okay

>video ends, click back to YouTube home

>four Billie Eilish vids are in the recommends

Is this how payola works today?



> be anarcho-communist

> see what's trending on YouTube

you okay comrade?


how do you escape the culture industry?



individually you do so by stop consuming the culture as much as you can.

collectively, people new to the left might not be able to point out the bourgeois ideology as good and accurately as you can, so point it out for them. Of course, organise too. Read proletarian literature, find proletarian films from Soviet era (on netfilms.ru), from Chinese era you can watch [How Yukong Moved the Mountains] on YT, there are communist songs, socialist realism art, etc. Popularise these among your comrades. If some of your comrades are artists/musicians, they will produce work of their own. That is briefly how communists build counter hegemony to bourgeois culture





File: e2df2ed899fe618⋯.jpg (168.4 KB, 1080x1079, 1080:1079, goblins.jpg)



counter-hegemonic praxis is highly important for academic leftism, but imo has trouble translating to the everyday experience of the proles because ofcourse, to them, its just music, there's no deeper meaning or intensive other than the themes of the music itself.

Not to say the proles are stupid, quite the opposite, but the thoughts that the culture industry makes music for the purpose capital alone would be hard to grasp, at least for my normal self anyway.

It's why i distance any sort of praxis from music, films are far easier to culturally analyse as film analysis has in itself become entertainment. Its far easier to explain how A Quiet Place is the screaming monologue of a scared surburban white middle class seeing teir influence shrink and their opinions discounted than it is to explain Billie Eilishs music is intentionally dark and brooding, not for the purpose of being edgy or count-cultural, but for the purpose of making profit, as its would be seen as counter-productive to fund unpopular styles.



What’s wrong with browsing what’s trending?


Jesus Fucking Christ




These are incredibly important takes, of all places to expect meritocracy to be promoted, many people would look to mainstream pop music, which much of the content rallies against the status-quo as do the artists themselves



Christ alive wasnt expecting that at 8am


Honestly don't really think Billie Eilish is any more obviously manufactured than lotsa pop.

Like Bieber - that happened in front of everyone. Usher put out his music video on YouTube when nobody knew who he was and everyone instantly hated it and was confused by it because it was fucking awful. The visceral negative response to Bieber was actually the organic public response - there was no grace period when he was actually popular before the backlash. Instead, they had to keep on buying hype and slots until they'd convinced enough people that Bieber was popular. This is how pop works, essentially - it's marketed to be accepted by the public as though it was their own culture, so that it can replace organic interaction with music and art. A great deal of it is just rich guys throwing money around. That's the process.

So fuck Billie Eilish, but afaict she's not special.



OP even said several times all pop stars are manufactured, it's just the case that Billie's situation gives a catalyst for discourse on the topic.



Don't get me wrong. Please care about your sanity. Trending videos on YT are shallow and fucking crazy. Your time is better spent on reading theory, organising, or consuming socialist realism art/music/literature, etc.



Analyzing trends is useful since we can understand what the masses are consuming.



pol showing once again they are intellectually unparalleled in the combative exchange of discourse



it's a weak attempt derail. Ignore it



You can do fine by only knowing the gist of content the masses consume.

These statements by Marx should be enough for you:

> Religion is the opium of the masses.

In the modern world, where we see a decrease in participation in organised religion, the 'opium' takes other forms – such as the media we are talking about in this thread, video games, social media, etc.

> The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force.

Even if the proles recognise that such culture (like Billie Eilish) is detrimental to mental health, toxic, etc. they will always think that this shit is produced by individuals who are isolated, that this is a mistake of some individuals and if people are properly educated then this will not happen. This is the same as radlibs wanting to 'fix' capitalism because few rich people has spoiled it, that we need 'woke' capitalism. This is what the bourgeois wants you to think, this why they push 'individualism', 'American dream', etc. so much



The most popular videos now, aside from the fash recommended by the algorithm, are ones that glorified the creators wealth. Ricegum, Mr Beast etc. the concept of "Flexing" someones wealth, ironically, makes the most money. Now while as nauseating it may be, it provides a valuable insight into societies psyche, which is the same as its always been, desire for capital, both financial and social.



The point is that you don't even need to watch trending YT videos to analyse what the masses like to consume.

We are in a capitalist society, so the masses consume everything communists don't want the proles to consume. Simple as that.



> Analyzing trends is useful since we can understand what the masses are consuming.

Not more useful and insightful than


> reading theory, organising, or consuming socialist realism art/music/literature



I disagree, I think we can see specific patterns in content that speak to a deeper level of societies desires and fears.

Saying under capitalism, all consumption is wrong is, in my mind, misguided. All consumption is directed, encouraged, advertised etc. and even coerced, but it doesn't mean that all is illegitimate.



Actually… it's important to understand *what* is influencing the masses.



You're of course right. But don't you think organising (specifically the concept of 'mass line') is a better alternative to that?

Organising is not just say starting a union. It is also going to people, many times door-to-door or a tea-shop frequented by workers, and asking them what troubles they have and what THEY think is the reason they have the troubles.

Analysing consumption trend, though not bad, will tell you some workers think Muslims are causing their troubles.

Actually going to the masses and asking them will give you the opportunity to correct them and show them the right way.

Anyway, I think we both are right, but it is quite possible sometimes to judge a video's content and viewers' consumption pattern by just looking at the video title, or getting a general overview from leftist online forums where someone who has already watched such videos can provide inputs, which save your time/



>You're of course right. But don't you think organising (specifically the concept of 'mass line') is a better alternative to that?

False dichotomy. You can do both.



>All consumption is directed, encouraged, advertised etc. and even coerced, but it doesn't mean that all is illegitimate.

It's interesting to think about content which won't be 'illegitimate' under capitalism. Either it slipped past the bourgeois censor, or I am unable to think about any. Can you tell me more?



I later hint that yeah you can do both.



So why dogmatically oppose one? Seems unnecessary.



Ah this is very true and done hand in hand with the analysis would provide a very rounded window


It was a hypothetical statement to start with, mostly because i also couldnt think of an example to start with, but also the idea of what makes some consumption legitimate and some not if all of it is done through manufacture isnt fully formed



Please carefully read the rest of my reply.

>I think we both are right

>it is quite possible sometimes to judge a video's content and viewers' consumption pattern by just looking at the video title, or getting a general overview from leftist online forums where someone who has already watched such videos can provide inputs, which save your time

If you must, then do it.

I am not dogmatically opposing both, I am just pointing out that the essence of the media that we consume never changes – it's the same recurring theme dressed up and sold as something different and revolutionary. You don't have to work hard to watch every trending video every time any new comes up, you need to get a general idea – work smarter, not harder.

Plus, I will still put more weight on, and suggest you to too, organisation IRL then analysing trends online (though not denying you shouldn't do the later)



Some neutered vestiges of the New Deal and Great Society reforms like SNAP, WIC and Section 8 housing. There’s also unemployment and disability, but those specifically require that you not be employed (with unemployment, you have to be actively looking for employment and the benefit is temporary regardless, with disability, your disability has to be debilitating enough that you’re basically unemployable.



I would love if examples are pointed out against what I claim.

I typed out a long response on what I 'claim' (being pointed out since Marx), but doing so is redundant since we all as Marxists will discover this 'claim' one day or another.

The thing is that most, if not all, media is reactionary, and all that is branded as 'truth', 'logic', 'critical thinking' is what at the end of the day maintains the status quo – and the farthest left I have seen the media go is some form of crude materialism – that yes our thoughts are shaped by our senses, reality, but in the end everything is fixed: capitalism, human nature of greed and 'competition', existence of rich and poor, changes brought by great minds, etc. But even the materialist part (senses shape thoughts) is rarely seen.



It's fair and ill concede that i also cant think of any truly leftist media, or any that isnt tied to the process of capital. It depends on how media is defined, however, and also which of the most left wing media platforms and content creators are reactionaries.

Truth, logic, reasoning, critical thinking are all bastardized enlightenment concepts for the self-sustainability of capitalism and neo-liberalism, so i wholeheartedly agree there



Tell me this shit isn’t real.




Since you used the word 'ideological apparatus' before, are you aware of this work by Althusser:




Just asking, are you a Maoist by chance? The "third world" shit kind of gave it away.



Yes I am.

The "third world" term should have told that I am a "Maoist Third Worldist" because Maoism and MTW are two different things.

Currently I am a Maoist, but I find MTW interesting, so it is just me playing around with this idea when I use the term.



What's the difference between Maoism and Maoism Third World proper?



Here are some brief sources you can read:




MTW vs Maoism:


reddit.com/r/communism101/comments/7zxr01/ama_marxismleninismmaoism_especially_for_new [inside one of the comments is the distinction you are looking for]



I am, i read ISA's and some of Gramsci's work recently, but i find miliband's explanation of ISA's far more comprehensive and interesting



> she rambled on about him during her Montreality interview done two months after his death to ensure everyone knew the two of them had been close friends


I think X was a narcissist. The way she's describing him makes it seem like he was manipulating her. The constant "are you okay? I need to know if you're okay" texts seem like lovebombing which narcs use to secure their targets. Plus all the "we're aliens" thing sounds like he was trying to dazzle her so she'd follow him. Yeah, weird guy, naive girl.



I am a very beginner Marxist so I was not aware of Ralph Miliband (if I am right). Thank you for the suggestion :)



Spot on mate,one of the better 20th century writers.




What's your opinion on his debate with Poulantzas? Poulantzas was a disciple of Althusser.



It seems that this book was written in 1969? From what I understand from my poor understanding of M&E's 'false consciousness' and 'ruling ideas of ruling class' quote, and what I can make out by skimming through the preface and the process of legitimization, this is gonna be an amazing read. Thank you.

Also, Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent was published in 1988. It seems to present the same arguments as Marx, Engels, Gramsci, Althusser, Miliband gave. Is it just me or have you comrades also noticed how liberal sociologists are quick to recycle Marxist concepts which came way before them, and then present them as their own? These liberals have done this with alienation, hegemony, feminism, etc. too.



Very interesting! While i like Miliband, i personally subscribed to the hegelian idea of the state being an ever present institution, as its reflective of the population, and Miliband took the position that the state was nothing more than its literal parts e.g. departments, ministries, the civil service etc.


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it is kinda scary how you can make anyone a superstar if you just overexpose them, her music is not great, she looks okay, her personality is some basic stoner chick - just the fact that she is pasted all over the media makes people love her. am i being cynical or am i just missing something?




This is very true, as a sociology student, i can firmly attest to it. A lot of it is total bollocks with no evidence too, especially the modern sociology, but it provides a good analytical framework, and a very good entry into marxism.



the drama all of this brings is literally opium for the people



Engagement. Never underestimate the power twitter, instagram, and youtube appearances can make for this image of accesibility.

Its what reality TV was for the Kardashians.



Where are you located? Just asking. You don't seem American from your posts.



>seeing her face everywhere

Never saw it and I watch TV and browse the internet.


It was used even before that, shortly before WWI.


File: 89545f30b9c71fa⋯.jpg (75.66 KB, 416x304, 26:19, 89545f30b9c71fa390a80f5889….jpg)


Zizek likes Lacan a lot too. May be worth a look for that real good philosophical shit


Im an anglo comrade!



The term "Kidult" is an appropriate term for today's infantile subjectivity?



Perhaps! Here in england the term young adult is thrown around so much that theres no real clear indication on when adulthood really begins. Either way, in modern capitalist society, you never really leave school.



I don't have positive opinions of Zizek, but I have seen Lacan praised and recommended a lot. I will check him out, but that day is far ahead :P

Lacan reminds me of this:


Here Fromm talks about "synthesis… of Marxism and psychoanalysis… is possible but also an existential necessity" Have you read it? What are your thoughts?



I mean, just walk into any fast fashion store and you'll notice how women's fashion tens to be uncomfortably infantile, i.e. striped turtlenecks, overalls, lots of pastel pinks and blues, sometimes pastel yellows and purples. It's like they're engaging young females to dress like they did when they were eight years old.



Am I the only one who thinks she looks better in 2018 than she did in 2017?



Didnt consider this but theres definitely an element of truth to it. Its hard to think of an equivalent for mens fashion but in all honesty much of mens fashion is infantile, especially the lowest common denominator i.e. your walmarts/primark/supermarket clothing.



From personal observations, I can tell how this could be reaction to girls being brainwashed into liking activities that relate to house-keeping and child-rearing. Like making little girls play with dolls, imitating running a house, or kitchen, etc. I don't know why society does that yet though. But here is this observation too: during the war when men are needed in the war, feminism from the 'top' is suddenly on the rise, when the men are back, extensive propaganda against women in the media is back again (like women being poor drivers, only being good at house work, etc.)

This could be one way of getting household work done (like child rearing, making food, etc.) without the bourgeoisie having to pay for nurseries, etc. and also let the unpaid labour of women at home go unpaid.

I don't know if that relates to what you said, but maybe can you find a relation?



What's good for the goose is good for the gander. She willingly chose to befriend him despite knowing about his abusive past, almost certainly to gain credibility among his rabid fans. It's what they call "clout chasing" but for real.



Just gave it a very brief skimread and its very interesting. There's no denying the relationship between capitalism and the brain, and a successful analysis of capitalism should include both marxism and psychoanalysis. Rutger Bregmann, in his tedtalk (i know, gross) said the human brain drops 14 Autism Level points when its in poverty over when its not, similar to the effects of alcoholism, and that the mind develops a "scarcity mentality". Its not his theory but unfortunately i cant remember who he's citing, and scarcity mentality brings up alot of self help shit rather than goo analysis.



Really. That fusion would give very insightful results!

I have watched that TedTalk because the title was a clickbait for me because I wanted to see what a non-communist has to say and I think this guy earned a little reputation when I saw his mention (iirc) on a leftist subreddit where he pointed out how taxes worked in the 1920s in the US.

> scarcity mentality brings up alot of self help shit rather than goo analysis

Yeah, his 'analysis' is limited because for them capitalism is the end of history. If anyone is reading this, then don't watch that TedTalk – nothing that you don't know, and everything you can easily criticise from a Marxist position.



Not sure how it connects but during a time of war women were often placed in charge of "masculine" positions at home while the men were off fighting.



That is what I pointed out. I also pointed out how slowly all of this 'progress' was reversed when the men came back home.




I think now its going to its other extreme, we all know the liberal stance of MORE *CLAPS* WOMEN *CLAPS* ONLY *CLAPS* CIA BLACKSITES



Not really, because while there's an element to that, women are still primarily expected to be ultra-feminine and child-like in their own way.



oh yes of course, more women CEOs but they should still be womanly and mothers



I think that is a reaction to the 'reversal' stage maybe? With the proliferation of education and media in the US and other western countries, and the gradual replacement of dominantly physical labour with dominantly mental labour, the material conditions which lead to this male-female work-household divide are ending, so of course the liberal reaction is on the rise.


This too, remember because

>This could be one way of getting household work done (like child rearing, making food, etc.) without the bourgeoisie having to pay for nurseries, etc. and also let the unpaid labour of women at home go unpaid.


Haha, I can imagine being part of the audience – kpop seems sexualised, very awkward, 'fake', I don't know I don't have the words for it



To be honest, you even see this kind of sentiment among leftist men who in a weird kind of way feel angered by the thought of women having any kind of power over them. It's a paradox but I find a lot of it comes down to insecurity, like that feeling of being powerless in the face of capitalism and the motivation to fight it is also what causes these guys to feel the need to dominate women, or feel intimidated when a woman "dominates" them. Not a fan of bourgeois feminists of course but it's probably why it's much easier for these kinds of guys to attack them rather than, say, succdems or black/brown reactionaries whose ideologies are just as toxic when put into practice.



>literally 17

>ultimate zoomer

>acts like she has any deep philosophical understanding of society


literally who? take this shit to leftytrash



this is how all zoomers act


File: ad7ffe654800815⋯.jpg (74.87 KB, 498x625, 498:625, AJtankie.jpg)


To be fair, a lot of first-day communist kids think like this too.



doesn't every old generation have this opinion of the current generation?



Kind of. It's become a trend for millennials to bash on zoomers the way boomers and gen xers bash on millennials.



Would it be right to say that every generation is unaware how the generation elder to it behaved when the elders were of their age, so when the current generation criticises the newer generation, they criticise them because they see a decrease in 'sanity' or increase in toxicity of the next generation. Can this reaction be a symptom of the gradual degradation of life under capitalism? This is especially to be seen in the US where the imperialist hegemony and the spoils it brought to the booomers is gradually falling



I mean, at least KPop admits to being entirely manufactured and fake.



I think there's truth to the idea of generational decline. The idea that the future is always "better" than the past has been shown to be a myth time and time again given that living standards in most places are decreasing and things like human relationships are becoming more disjointed.



I don't think it'd be in the interest of the bourgeoisie to point out how inhuman the KPop industry is, but it is in the interests of the US bourgeoisie to do so, so that they can point out how in the US every artist and musician is self-made and individualistic contrary to that in Korea, this is could just then be racism



>The idea that the future is always "better" than the past

You're right, this is just naked reactionary thought.



Add to my first point:

See how much reddit likes to point out the 'presence' of Big Brother in China, it's like everyone forgot about Facebook/Cambridge Analytica, the NSA, and Snowden leaks, and the recent attempt to kill net neutrality



I mean, if you can justify the existing world as something rational, or constantly progressing for the better, you de-legitimize any kind of struggle against it, or just assume the end result of the struggle will be what the times were inevitably progressing towards anyway.



Couldn't have put it better myself :)



the zoomers threw shade first



This song of hers is projected to hit Top 10 on Billboard:


To me it sounds like a Black Eyed Peas song circa 2010 but her fans will eat up anything. I like the distorted bass at the end though.



it is pop disguised as indie



Yeah she's basically Melanie Martinez if you replace the diaper fetish shit with SoundCloud cultural appropriation.



>soundcloud cultural appropriation



File: b3ae96edf394bad⋯.png (831.32 KB, 933x586, 933:586, Screen Shot 2019-03-17 at ….png)


No way she puts this shit on and thinks "I look really nice!".



Well think about it: if she wore a decent, acceptable, common outfit, would it generate any reaction? And if no reaction is generated, how will profits be earned and the proles distraced from real struggle?



she's underage and theyre pretending like shes 25.

also does she have some sort of ad deal with invisiline?



Not sure but I know she has an endorsement deal with Urban Outfitters (figures).



>No way she puts this shit on and thinks "I look really nice!".

10 years from, the equivalent of this sentence will point towards someone wearing an outfit considered okay today, and today's outrageous outfits will be normal tomorrow. Mark my words.



Think of it this way: the "new" SoundCloud rappers all dress the way emo kids did back in 2004-2007.

Case-in-point (prepare to cringe):




dafuq you are right

don't fucking mark my words, shit was crazy and shit is crazy and shit will be crazy until capitalism ends



I'm surprised OP didn't mention one thing which Billie and many of these new emo rappers seem to be doing: commodifying depression. I was a teenager when the real emo stuff came out (MCR, Hawthorne Heights, all that) and it was accused of not only doing the exact same, but also promoting self-harm like wrist slitting. All of us cut ourselves back in those days, hence the long sleeves underneath the band Ts in order to hide all the scars. Good times those were.



> commodification of depression

Wow this is a very good observation, not sure why many of us missed it (maybe because not many seem to be well versed about this stuff than you seem to be). I hope you are doing fine now :)



I'm 30 now so my teen angst is well behind me.

One thing I will say though is that like OP I highly doubt Billie (or X or any of these "sadbois" for that matter) are actually going through depression. From what I can decipher from the little bits I've heard it all feels very staged, like they're conflating general confusion and mood swings as a "depressive" state. Real depression causes you to become reclusive because you think everyone hates you and nothing you do can meet others' expectations. That's why depression leads to suicide, because thinking you're a horrible person and everyone feels disgusted by you makes you crave a way out. It's not something you'd ever make a spectacle of that's for sure.



if you are depressed you probably wouldn't have the motivation to be working on music all the time like these people



Well I am depressed and I can tell you I can never even imagine myself handling so much fame and attention as these people have. There is no way a depressed person can do that. I agree with you.



Why do you think Kurt Cobain offed himself? In a sense he was driven to take his own life by the pressures of the industry AND his depressive state.



this, plus is there a possibility of their music being ghostwritten to meet 'market' trends.?


Was he depressed prior to the rise of pressured of the industry and fame and attention, or was it caused by these same things?

I may be wrong about other depressed artists, but still my point stands, just for myself though



scholarships vro, git gud



didnt he mention he wanted to infiltrate the industry and rot it from the inside? he self described himself as a communist in his journals.


I remember the last time there was a thread about this stuff it was pretty good, until I mentioned that Grimes was probably the start of this post-internet model of plants, and that labels, PR firms etc. likely took that model and ran with it. Then someone lost their shit and started sperging out at me. Thread is probably in the archive, has some good posts in it.


File: 44859252ea3fd53⋯.jpg (15.91 KB, 360x360, 1:1, 44859252ea3fd53679b917ef87….jpg)


Who the fuck thought that attire would be cool


Thanks OP. I knew there was something off about her rise to fame. I only knew of Billie Eilish because she sang the hook on Curry's song Z1RENZ. Next thing I knew she was being shilled all over Spotify and kept seeing her interviews in my suggestions box on YouTube. I listened to her music just because I was curious to see if her music sounded like anything like trap but with melodic singing. Well it was just pop music with a wilder aesthetic. Not bad but definitely not GREAT. She sounds like a typical Lorde clone but maybe with better production and a softer voice.


File: 1fe7fa34f340b81⋯.jpg (20.16 KB, 640x559, 640:559, 1fe7fa34f340b812b8b1893cc2….jpg)


>Jahseh D. Onfroy



What’s funny about his name?


I think we should stop putting the word late-stage capitalism to everyfuckingwhere



It's not a name, just a random string of letters that sound wrong together.

Like I'll concede that not everyone is called John Smith but if he was called, say, Henrich Onfroy, or Jahseh Jalil, (though Jahseh in particular is and dissonant) I wouldn't have thought it was too bad but they just don't fit together at all.



It’s useful though.



it makes you sound smart



The difference between Ariana and Billie is, Ariana can sing higher than a D5.


File: f833de991b7b649⋯.jpg (20.12 KB, 367x346, 367:346, 1552109493332.jpg)


What the fuck, this is just Weezer but with less instruments and he's dressed like Beetlejuice.


File: 013a1df7235e77e⋯.jpg (33.41 KB, 780x438, 130:73, lil-xan.jpg)

Whats with the Steve Buscemi eyelids thing, Lil Xan looks like that too. Is it just a random genetic feature or are these kids perpetually stoned. They look like they just ate a whole batch of pot brownies.



Basically anything mainstream is like this, film, music, fashion, etc. It stems from war time propaganda when it rebranded to Public Relations and Advertising.


>Laurel Canyon found itself a nexus of counterculture activity and attitudes in the mid-late 1960s and early 1970s, becoming famous as home to many of L.A.'s rock musicians, such as Frank Zappa; Jim Morrison of The Doors; Carole King; The Byrds; Buffalo Springfield; Canned Heat; John Mayall; members of the band The Eagles; the band Love; Neil Young; and Micky Dolenz & Peter Tork of The Monkees. Tork's home was considered one of Laurel Canyon's biggest party houses with all-night, drug-fueled sleepovers, well attended by the hippest musicians and movie stars of the era.[24][36][37]







That look literally originated in Miami. That city must be a shithole.


File: 7e2f322ee7c6519⋯.jpeg (106.35 KB, 1080x1151, 1080:1151, 2F67170E-4ACA-4149-9C36-A….jpeg)

nice thread, fags

heard about it on /mu/

here is a pic of her style before she hopped on soundcloud rapper bandwagon






>friendship with said “SoundCloud rappers”

She’s fucking them.

>most notably with XXXTentacion

She fucked X.

>feature with Denzel

She’s fucking him too.



The production is very good but the hook sounds like a fucking nursery rhyme.



Basic white girls in a nutshell.



She’s drinking his cum sauce.

Think about it: in what other context do black males in their mid 20s “befriend” teenage white girls?



I have none of those. I rent, I never went to college, I live in the boonies.



you think that Gen X (me) doesn't have issues with boomers too?



I can't argue with that.

that's why if SJWs want segregation, accelerate that shit.


File: febbf418ed296ca⋯.jpg (114.1 KB, 638x479, 638:479, fetal alchohol syndrome.jpg)



>accusing a survivor of childhood sexual exploitation of sexually exploiting someone who is still legally a child using only conjecture as evidence

Just don't.



>>appropriates the aesthetic of proles

>>LARPs about her background and values in her music

There's definitely something to be said about this. A lot of middle class white liberals tend to fall into the poverty tourism shtick whereby they romanticize the plight of the working poor, racial/religious minorities, and other disadvantaged groups all while remaining stuck in the mindset of pampered white liberals.

I see a lot of white liberal/"leftist" males especially converting to Islam simply because they view it as a "proletarian religion" and have no fucking clue what they're really in for, just as an easy example.



it's like her eye sockets are trying to suck her eyes into her skull while her eyes struggle their most to pop out onto the floor.


File: 7c08af76964b118⋯.jpg (122.08 KB, 480x817, 480:817, opiumeyes.jpg)


Who? Billie or Xan?



>looks like an entirely different person


>eyes look alive and appear to be glowing with life

>good posture



File: b7aac6af9c50e96⋯.png (827.06 KB, 931x598, 931:598, industry-garden.png)


I hate when boring artists use cool aesthetics, therefore, I hate her and want her dead



Meh, her aesthetic isn't even that cool. Others have done it much better.



idk i like the artwork that she has for each song when listening to her album on spotify.

Anyway, she's 2019's Lorde. Her second album will flop like Lorde's as well.



this guy was planted back in december, i believe they are going for the lil peep vibe since peep died about year before

they’re trying to recreate him




I mean, I can see why this board would love Lorde given that her politics seem pretty in-line with the stuff posted on here, but like Billie she was entirely a label creation, coached from age 12 into pop stardom and then shoved down everyone's throat when she first hit the scene. I will admit her voice is much bolder and better than Billie's and she at least writes her own material (Billie said in early interviews she's incapable of writing anything on her own, relies on her brother to write all her stuff, and is primarily a visual artist).

Most industry plants tend to be one or two-album wonders, or one-EP/mixtape-one-album wonders. As soon as the second album fails to meet expectations the label pushes them to the side and finds the next fresh meat.



they really trying to get us to want to fuck a 17 year old.



I'd argue that most of Lorde and Billie's appeal is how they "made it" whilst still minors. Normies today seem to be fascinated by the idea of a 16-year old girl making pop hits. As soon as Lorde turned 18 her novelty wore off and she made a highly forgettable second album which didn't even come close to the perfection that was Pure Heroine. Billie will be the same way unless Denzel keeps giving her more features and thus more C-L-O-U-T.

I think it goes to what >>2853773 was saying about the infantilisation of the modern youth, how people all the way into their late 20s still think and behave like high schoolers, and how society does everything it can to create and reproduce said behaviours.

Meanwhile, Kate Bush wrote all the songs on her first album when she was younger than Billie.


Here she is at 17 playing an instrument, something which Billie seems incapable of doing:


And of course she wrote this absolute gem at fucking 13:




Oh bloody hell, Denzel sounds better FREESTYLING at 17 than his child bride does with a pre-written script:




I wish music was for older people tbh. The idea that people in their 30s/40s can't be rebellious and cool is fucked up. Youth rebellion is a meme.



Protip: without her i'M sO eDgY aesthetic her music is nothing.



Normies today seem to be fascinated by the idea of a 16-year old girl making pop hits. As soon as Lorde turned 18 her novelty wore off and she made a highly forgettable second album which didn't even come close to the perfection that was Pure Heroine. Billie will be the same way unless Denzel keeps giving her more features and thus more C-L-O-U-T.

I> think it goes to what >>2853773 was saying about the infantilisation of the modern youth, how people all the way into their late 20s still think and behave like high schoolers, and how society does everything it can to create and reproduce said behaviours.

This has been a problem since the corruption of the "kid becomes big boy through reasons" structure in the 90's and Hannah Montana dark ages


>The idea that people in their 30s/40s can't be rebellious and cool is fucked up. Youth rebellion is a meme.

Pssst, hey over here. I'm selling something called "find some good fucking tunes online", for the low price of some Bruce Springsteen singing Wobbly ballads.



>Normies today seem to be fascinated by the idea of a 16-year old girl making pop hits. As soon as Lorde turned 18 her novelty wore off and she made a highly forgettable second album which didn't even come close to the perfection that was Pure Heroine. Billie will be the same way unless Denzel keeps giving her more features and thus more C-L-O-U-T.

>I think it goes to what >>2853773 was saying about the infantilisation of the modern youth, how people all the way into their late 20s still think and behave like high schoolers, and how society does everything it can to create and reproduce said behaviours.

fml, fixed greentext



I know, by that I mean them becoming popular and being the standard for "new music"



dude we got vaporwave and synthwave.



It's not the age that matters, it's the actual content of the music.

Listen to the tunes by Kate which I posted above. Her lyrics reflect master storytelling. Meanwhile, what are Billie's lyrics. "You should see me in a crown" - so what? "Bury a friend, wish I was dead" - okay. It sounds like she and her bro just strung a bunch of nice-sounding sentences together in order to make critic bait without any coherent narrative. Not even abstract poetry-tier either, just tryhard BS, and Crown and Bury a Friend were two of the better songs on her album.



That image gave me diarrhea.



Don't worry, I'm a huge Kate Bush fan lol. None of these girls are coming close to a The Dreaming no matter how many quirky vocal effects and distorted kicks they use.



B-b-but I thought number of IG followers accurately determines the quality of music!!!!


File: ef5bceef7eaa889⋯.jpg (60.7 KB, 579x567, 193:189, 1.jpg)


>>accusing a survivor of childhood sexual exploitation of sexually exploiting someone who is still legally a child using only conjecture as evidence



Why does this video give me the feels despite the song being terrible?



nostalgic guitar riff + sad/frustrated vocal vibe



I think it’s just seeing Peep with all those pills.



How did that video not make you bust out laughing? Not the part with all the pill bottles in the car floorboard? Or the fact this kid looks like he goes to an above average every day school but with like 30+ highly visible tattoos. Or the whining or the eyes glowing? That whole video was quite something.

Unless this is in fact how zoomers actually act in which case haha jokes on me!

The tune is banal but not ear grating.



But - that’s usually how it happens.


If her sound and style were genuinely too “unconventional” for mainstream music, corporate media wouldn’t be shilling her 24/7. Just search for “Billie Eilish” on twitter and you’ll even find tweets of known porkies praising her album.


File: b71a84f344f1a12⋯.png (307.34 KB, 292x551, 292:551, 1552833379678.png)


Holy shit is that terrible. No wonder the guy is dead he probably killed himself after realizing just how retarded he looks.



He died a few months after Fantano gave his album a NOT GOOD rating too.


File: 078265dc258cd6b⋯.jpg (39.92 KB, 537x435, 179:145, 078265dc258cd6b5aa17775ffd….jpg)


its like theyre trying to make a culture out of the suicide squad joker meme.




bones is fantastic



South Korea and Japan are highly alienated societies.



>caring about a teenage girl's (alleged) relationships




It obviously gets him hot and bothered.



>white liberals converting to islam

that’s a thing now? I guess I live in the bible belt so I dont see that many upper middle class liberals, granted I have seen the whole “I’m gender queer so I wear boots and pixie cut while still dating exclusively white men” phenomenon


File: ea1752607a413eb⋯.jpg (67.98 KB, 500x400, 5:4, 643056945_f04675c1ec_z.jpg)


for me it is envy



Or rather, she’s Lana Del Rey if you replace the 1960s Hollywood nostalgia with Sound-clout culture.



It's more common in "progressive" enclaves like Cambridge, Mass.

I've been active in leftist politics in the Boston area since 2007 and I can name about five male white converts to Islam off the top of my head.



Lana is another interesting case. She like Billie is very "planty" in the sense that her backstory leading up to how she got signed (to Interscope no less) is quite shady. At the same time, I have to give her some credit, because by the time she was signed she already had a whole plethora of songs written and recorded by herself. Many of them are still available on Youtube if you search for 'Lana Del Rey unreleased song'. That's a world away from a 13-year old girl walking into her brother's bedroom, recording vocals for a song he's already written and produced, walking out, and SNAP getting signed to a major label months later.

Interscope might as well be an industry greenhouse given that they're notorious for creating very visible plants. Juice WRLD is another one of their signees and there's plenty talk about how suspicious his blowup was too.



I'm sorry.



Lana lied about her working class background but that's still not enough to warrant the hate she received lol. Remember everyone bitching about how fake she is because she has a stage name? Pathetic.



I like Lana because it's clear she takes a lot of her inspiration from literature and 20th century poetry. When was the last time Billie quoted Allen Ginsburg?



For Anons like >>2854266 it's insecurity.



Ultraviolence is a good album




Watch Fantano's review of her album. It's atrocious, and he does whatever he can to cape for her. The most telling part is: "Looking at the credits it's only Billie and her brother" - that's the crux of what she's supposed to represent, and why Interscope has poured so much money into them, the illusion that two somewhat talented siblings can become stars by making pop songs in their parents' house. It's very much the same tactic behind the rise of SoundCloud rap: you take a kid with one big song on SC, sign him for a million dollars, and build up a whole persona of that one kid who happened to get lucky, and present the idea that any kid with the right equipment can obtain this degree of fame and wealth also.



>I mean, I can see why this board would love Lorde

Lorde was always boring.


You're boring and you like boring shit.



>Watch Fantano's

Oh my God, I can't even insult you fast enough



how does he go on and on for months about how her music is sooo boring then all of a sudden loves her? hmm… how interesting



I only watch him if he's reviewing an album I've listened to, just to see if he's noticed what I have.

Otherwise I couldn't give two shits about him and his overt pretentiousness.



He's never been known for his consistency. It's important to realize he too is pandering to a certain audience, and probably knows he's going to take shit in some form if he states an unpopular opinion. Plus, he's been trying to save face after his parody channel got accused of being "problematic", he probably thinks "industry plant" is a misogynistic dogwhistle (even though the term is equally applied to male artists).

I honestly thought he was going to give this one a 5/10 just because it's so fucking boring, and what makes it interesting isn't exactly anything that stands out. Keep in mind he also gave Ariana an 8/10.



I can understand him giving Ariana a high rating because his rating system is determined by the artist's individual discography, so yea I can see that it's her "best" album. But the songs on Billie's albums are ones that have already been released that he calls boring, insulted the production and he insulted her vocals before while her vocals on the album are the same boring shit. Makes no sense.

I think he's just being a contrarian against the industry plant shit because he wants the clicks. He's been talking about her a lot and I guess that gets him views.



Someone on /mu/ just mentioned how odd it is to see left-leaning people fall for the poptimism meme. Billie, Rosalía, and other obvious plants are upheld despite their shady backgrounds being known.



I'm not even sure why I'm still reading this thread but what does it even matter? As a non music culture person why not just listen to the music? Artists on a label aren't any better than artists on YT and nowadays they're equally accessible, I understand it might be frustrating that people with the right connections are rewarded over talent but you have the power to listen to whoever you want to listen to.



Truth. He doesn't have much stake in her like her nutty teenage fans do, so for him it all boils down to views and what he can say to get attention.

>and he insulted her vocals before while her vocals on the album are the same boring shit.

Her vocals are uninteresting which makes her music uninteresting, just because singing in the same soft whisper will ultimately limit what kind of music she can actually perform. The production on her album overrides her vocals on more than one occasion, for instance.



Yet just a few weeks ago he was pointing out how much effort her label was putting in to forcing her on everyone without a single hit song. Sheesh.


>mfw the best thread we've had on this board in MONTHS is a thread on some pop star instathot most on here haven't even heard of



Taylor Alison Swift was born on December 13, 1989, in Reading, Pennsylvania.[1] Her father, Scott Kingsley Swift, was a stockbroker for Merrill Lynch, and her mother, Andrea Gardner Swift (née Finlay), was a homemaker who had worked as a mutual fund marketing executive.

makes u do a think



It's an open secret 99% of pop stars are industry plants who only get signed due to some kind of industry connections or money (youth with money and connections are much easier to plant since the labels don't have to spend as much money "creating" them).

What is a much bigger deal is the presence of industry plants in hip hop and why it has much more severe implications. Two reasons: 1. hip hop is often seen as a way out of poverty/oppression for many black youth, and 2. in hip hop you're *expected* to be authentic (think about controversies over ghostwriters for and how scandalous it is that Kendrick has a ghostwriter or two, but no one gives a shit if Beyoncé has like 18 people behind the scenes writing her shit).

Take a look at Blueface for a recent instance of a known hip hop plant:


(BTW if it seems as if I'm being "obsessive" in this thread, I want everyone to know media studies is a huge part of my academic field. That's why I subscribe to a lot of music review YouTube channels, take notes on the "popping" artists, and so on. It's a shit job but someone's gotta do it. At this point I'm using this thread to brainstorm.)



>What is a much bigger deal is the presence of industry plants in hip hop and why it has much more severe implications. Two reasons: 1. hip hop is often seen as a way out of poverty/oppression for many black youth

I mean so is basketball.



nah thats really cool I hope you get published and get the word out there



And it sucks when nepotism cases win their too



The idea that basketball or rap music is a ticket out of poverty is a con.



Of course. I can't speak to basketball or professional sports, but the vast majority of rappers are in massive debt to their labels and spent virtually their entire careers trying to make back what the labels have "loaned" them.



You can't plant basketball players though. You actually have to be insanely good unlike the music industry.



Ok, but I'm saying plants aren't the only problem with the statement that "hip hop is often seen as a way out of poverty/oppression for many black youth." OP apparently acknowledges this, but broadly I think there are a lot of people who realize that basketball careers are a con (it's more notorious for this) who still seem to accept the narrative that rap music ambitions are legit. Like, even if there were plants in basketball like the plants in other entertainment it'd be no great loss as far as its actual potential to lift anyone out of poverty.



Here's a rundown on the subject from the same guy who did the Blueface vid:





Out of curiosity, would you mind giving us the TL;DR version of the interworkings of professional basketball? Like I said I'm unfamiliar with all the fuckery in professional sports so I'd like some info.



Not an expert - read some stuff years ago.

Basically went something like this - the opportunity is kind of dangled in front of kids since high school, and they spend years pursuing it thinking they'll make professional teams (and making other people money on college teams) before usually getting denied and left with pretty much nothing to show for it. There was something or other about it specifically exploiting black kids, too, but I don't remember it that well. I don't really recall much else specifically - so this is mostly about high school-college sports. The NBA itself presumably sucks ass, too.



Doesn't surprise me TBH. Fill a poor black kid full of hope only to pull the rug out from underneath them.



Think of it like this: *why* does it seem like there's such a huge push to force this girl into being a legend, especially when she's done so little and the little she's done has been entirely under the supervision of a major label? I'm only in my late 20s but I don't recall any pop star being this heavily praised since maybe the late 90s with Britney.



chomsky, more like cucksky. read parenti, he wrote inventing reality before chomsky rehashed it



hoop dreams and sneaker pimps. adidas/nike all the sportswear brands run camps where prospects are invited, as long as they shill products they get signed. of course you have to actually be good to be invited. look at sebastian telfair, and look at current lebron




I honestly find Billie Eilish pretty easy to avoid. Like I've probably heard her called an industry plant more times than I've actually heard her praised at this point - contrast w/ Beyonce, Lady Gaga, Rihanna, Katy Perry, or for that matter Lorde… hell, maybe I just hang around the wrong places, but I'm pretty sure I noticed more hype for Melanie Martinez.



Or read both. Chomsky has issues, but he does have some worthwhile stuff to say.



I've never even heard of this person until this thread. I think I'm too far down the weeb rabbit hole to pick up on this type of stuff.



Maybe we're just consuming different media. I see bunches of articles especially now giving her endless amounts of praise, calling her the usual hyperbolic buzzwords like "the future of music", "17 and already a legend", "her voice will be what saves music", etc. etc. It all feels very staged, not only due to her background and how/why she was signed but just because I have yet to hear anything from her that I would consider stunning or particularly noteworthy. I'd say it's accurate to assume her career will be like Melanie's before Melanie was outed as a rapist.



I've heard that alluded to just recently - honestly, has anyone backed up the accusations tho? Not trying to save Martinez's career here, but I looked it up now to get clued in and it sounds like Twitter-level stuff.

And yeah, it's very staged. What creeps me out, too - poptimism. Not really what we're talking about here, but a phenomenon that seems like something rather insidious, like trying to intellectualize label hype so that you can sneak it in and sell shit to people who would have ignored it otherwise. That's something brilliant about how pop works - it's a substitution game, substituting itself for local culture or its strands of thought for whatever indie hipster critic bullshit people would otherwise take in. When I see "maybe you guys should be more open minded and consider that maybe pop is deserving of high praise" now, I have to wonder why this is a thing for mainstream pop but not, like, gorenoise or folk or even underground pop some other thing that regularly gets ignored because it's not exposed in the first place. At the end of the day, it's the money. Even when mainstream pop actually is good music (by pop criteria - catchyness, production, and other qualities a lot of it nevertheless lacks) it's still a negative phenomenon which forces itself into every corner of social interaction to maximize profit.



If she was thrown into the industry with very little musical experience it could be she uses her aesthetic in order to compensate for her lack of substance. But yeah I watched the Fantano review and thought he was giving her and her brother way too much credit.


Back and, wow, did not expect this thread to blow up like this. Nice job, OP, there were haters from the start but its actually sparked some nice discussion.

I wanna expand on what i said earlier about music being an ideological state apparatus, specifically with relation to the marketing of Eilish. Evidently, here fashion and style choices are hers (only a 17 year old would think thats cool) but her image - her brand - is very clearly a label construct. >>2854256

will know, as a /mu/ guy, that Antoine Fantoine reviewed her album. He said he found he advertising for the album to be annoying as it focused on Billie as an image rather than her music, which i in turn realised (mostly due to a lack of exposure to advertising). The image thy're trying to market her as is horror, clearly. Her music is very low, dulcet tones and deep bass, lyrics are very EDGY xDD and, at points, bordering on macabre.

We've already discussed how this is evidently counter-cultural, and many anons have pointed to other counter cultural artists in this thread - Denzel, XXX, Xan, Grimes etc. - and how recuperation of counter-cultural themes/motifs can prove to be extremely profitable if you get on the train real early, think about how much money Gaga's label made of her image just being weird.

There's no real point or question here, perhaps more of an observation that, as time guys on, capitalist marketing will appeal more and more to the counter-cultural movements to the point where we're gonna see that sick metal gear solid 4 advert before the first act where youve got the 4 girls groping a tricked out octopus. Hentai, theyre gonna use hentai for advertising.




Was about to double post about fash attitudes on this and honestly, this couldnt have been better timed. Thanks for being the useful idiot… as usual.

It's important to note that, even as an ISA, the music industry marketing counter-cultural is entirely un-ideological (As much as any isa promoting the dominant ideology can be). It simply makes more money than whoever was on top a few months ago, i believe Ariana Grande, who's own image has shifted "darker". How do we know its un-ideological? Well, aside from >>2854712 here (Still hilarious) capitalism in its current form, as we've previously noted, its all about pacification of the working class, provding them a number of ways to avoid class consciousness and distract themselves while still acknowledging theres no escape from the system. As such, the counter to this would naturally be dark, unsettling imagery and themes, and these have been present in popular hiphop for a number of years (Death grips a very good and also cool example). We see that this is another recuperation by the base so as to further influence the super structure, and once you recognize this is the direction we're headed in, youll notice more dark, edgy stuff also being objectively popular and succesful.

Id love to go on about Jordan Peele and the return of mainstream horror as an extension of this but that would be derailing the thread (further)


She looks like a cock/coke whore.



Not in the same way as music plants, but it's no coincidence that today's NBA has more second generation players than ever before. Second generation players grow up rich and get to spend all their time practicing without worrying about anything else. If they don't have the pure talent to make it, their NBA daddy can afford them professional level coaching to get them at least to role played level and put them over impoverished athletes. If they have the talent AND the wealth, that's how you get cheat code players like Steph Curry.

The majority of NBA players, both the stars and the role players, used to come out from a working class background and at least half of said majority came from deep poverty; affluent second gen stars like Kobe Bryant were the extreme exception and struggled to relate to teammates from working class backgrounds. Today, the only way you can get to the NBA from poverty is if you're a Lebron level talent, because all the role players and half the stars came from wealthy background.



You're not cool for disliking Fantano bruh, if you pay attention to any realm of music subculture you're going to see him or references to him online, especially if you're trying to analyse industry trends and such. Pretty sure most people would agree his videos aren't really worth watching (the weekly track roundup ones are ok on occasion, there is sometimes a couple tracks I ain't heard on those, but I don't watch them lmao, just peep the description), but it's clearly observable he's a big deal amongst post-internet music listeners. Personally I'm pretty sure the guy has been a shill on payola for at least a few years, which actually makes him more relevant because you can piece together information from looking at trends he's propagating with his op/eds + reviews.


>>2854797 (me)

Also I found the thread I was talking about earlier in the thread, sheds some more insight into a lot of the same stuff OP is talking about. It's in the archive from Jan this year under https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/2788459.html (I don't think you can crosslink to archived threads, but tell me if I'm wrong please)



it is like a sociopath read a manual on "how to be sexy", it looks so unnatural.

[17 is legal in my country anyhow :DD]



Grimes is actually very similar to Billie in that she too made a career off of her parents' money and label connections, i.e. she dropped out of McGill (Canada's Harvard) in order to focus on music full-time thanks to her mother's money.

Go to Montréal and speak to the local musicians who were active about 10 years ago. All of them despise her, because they know her backstory very well and why - like Billie - her "DIY" image is completely constructed.



grimes is one of the biggest cons of the generation. her production is sooo bad.



Yeah I was the anon who talked about Grimes a fair amount in that archived thread, I think she's the flashpoint for the recuperation of the "Bedroom Aesthetic" by the Music Industry, and considering how connected she was to "Indie Music Journalism" I think that the aquisition of P4K by Conde Nast wasn't so much P4K being integrated with the mainstream (in public at least, was happening for years before this) as much as the Majors were integrating with the P4K models and how they could be combined with the pivot towards Streaming & Social Media and away from print + internet publications.



do you have the original source of him digging up grimes's past?



Who digging up grimes past? What exactly do you mean by "original source"? The only "source" I can think of off the top of my head would be various comments Chris Ott has made about her in videos + AMAs, and he was very close to her and her partner (in fact her partner went out of his way to dispel statements by Ott IIRC). You can also look up various rumour milling about her from artists in Montreal and other places online. Some autists always used to bring up a ton of sources about her Tumblr showing she was le poor struggling artiste which of course anyone would understand as bullshit so even as far back as the beginning of her career she was blatantly attempting to craft a narrative. Whether that was her own nous or on an advisory capacity from her mother's connections who knows.



sorry i meant chris ott



Some of it's in the archived thread, but I can try and dig up more if you want.


File: 841cb569a70551d⋯.png (134.9 KB, 1235x232, 1235:232, 88909324.png)



*I couldn't resist.*



Protip: Montréal is in no way a poverty-infested wasteland like most American cities are. We Canucks view Burgerland the same way burgers view Central America.

Unless Ms. Boucher was living downtown, she was probably only paying $600 CAD per month (which I believe is something like $480 USD, not sure what exchange rates were ten years ago). There's a reason MTL ranks as one of the world's most livable cities, VERY easy for a "starving artist" to get by here without a problem.



This. Fuck house ownership in the US.


So Mr. Fandango was paid for that Billie review huh? It's just too suspicious



No doubt.



He praised her vocals yet attacked her vocal ability just two months ago. Something’s up.



he gave lower scores to similar (and better) artists in the past, like Lorde, Lana del Rey, and Alessia Cara

I think Lana's "Ultraviolence" got a 2


File: 70b22cc848c3650⋯.jpg (138.64 KB, 1080x720, 3:2, 1467405578944.jpg)

She has that Amerimutt look.

It's funny with all the retards going about da bbc on the thread.

She's gotta be like 15% Eskimo 25% beaner and with an Irish Surname.

Compare that with Eliza who's purebred Irish.



no fun allowed amirite



I don;t think he was paid in the way you think, I think that his contract with complex (and possibly others) stipulates that he has a range of acceptable opinion on certain topics and has to do certain things.



He was correct for giving Taboo an 8. I think this board would agree. Granted it was a much better album than Shillie’s, and I think we all know where the talent in that couple lies.


File: 3627e2b668454d3⋯.png (839.23 KB, 600x876, 50:73, 3627e2b668454d356eb9e2e9ca….png)


>calls you should see me in a crown boring




He called it “boring” before. Also, “of the year [2019]”? It was released last summer and only hit no 90 on the charts.



yea that's what i'm saying. he completely flipped real quick.



You sound like a waifuposter. You have to go back.



Which is highly suspicious to say the least.


File: adbd87b6cd8d6bf⋯.jpg (394.99 KB, 930x1024, 465:512, 1518430305684.jpg)

Most counter culture has always been controlled opposition. It's a way for teenagers and people with low Autism Level to fool themselves into thinking they are sticking it "to the man", despite the fact that most of the merchandise surrounding said culture is being sold to them by the man.

This isn't new. True comrades get results, while posers shop at hot topic and buy "fuck capitalism" shirts. So there is a hip new manufactured music starlet? Big fucking woop. The best thing you can do is ignore her.



Ironic, because this is, quite frankly, the only time Billie sings as if she has a soul (hook only of course):


Aside from a few corny lines, this is a beautiful song. i cry evrytim



"You Should See Me In a Crown", "Xanny", and "Bury a Friend" were the only worthwhile songs on that album, and even then they were moderately better than mediocre. "Crown" sounds like a Pure Heroine B-side.



A fucking 2?




Still though. Claiming any man is having sex with an underage girl without evidence is a scummy thing to do.


can someone tell me what about this thread is and why it is exploding with replies? thanks



>You're not cool for disliking Fantano bruh,

Why would I be?

"Fantano is a retarded boring melon" is a pretty banal observation.

>if you pay attention to any realm of music subculture you're going to see him or references to him online,

True - I've heard of him.

>but it's clearly observable he's a big deal amongst post-internet music listeners.

People who take Fantano seriously are fags. Not saying that to hone my edge, I'm just saying it should be pretty obvious to anyone.




Surface /mu/-tier discussion about a particular manufactured popstar being manufactured. It's exploding with replies because a lot of us are into pop discussions and shitting on dumb pop things.



Thank you. I've never heard of this person and OP's wall of text made it even more complicated to me to understand what this thread is about.


I can't tell what's worse.



Or this.



File: 113ef7a49345832⋯.jpg (137.02 KB, 1200x755, 240:151, XXXTentacion-new-look.jpg)



both, lets makeout


Who is this ugly cess pit of stds?



Her name is literally in the title.



>But most of all, she has an overwhelming amount of social media clout, especially on Instagram where she currently holds 16 million followers.

Lil Pump has 18 million I think and his album didn't sell for shit. I could see labels re-thinking this strategy.



I mean the fact that you thought you needed to post some snarky comment when it's pretty obvious why people would pay attention to him even if they know he's retarded is pretty weird fam. Like no-one actually gives a shit you sound like you're trying way too hard.


File: 089cff59e020a9d⋯.jpg (107.52 KB, 1080x1350, 4:5, Billie-pre-soundclout.jpg)


Notice how she was originally marketed as a pink pop princess.

You have to ask why her image and aesthetic change was so abrupt, especially when the sound of her actual music didn't change at all.



File: 93a9d4aa88822f3⋯.png (22.88 KB, 300x250, 6:5, dQ0e5iH.png)

Funny thing about XXXpired. After his death /x/ had a debate whether or not there were occultic elements to it. One anon summon some high ranking demon to ask if the deceased rapper dabbled in the occult, the demon confirmed that indeed he had. Another summoned the rapper's spirit, the deceased denied the allegations.



Isn't this the exact arguement third worldists use to argue that first world revolution is impossible?

The poorest in the first world are no where near as poor as the poorest in the third world, so why would first world workers be ready to die in a revolution?

Your point is logically inconsistent




>I appreciate your plight of analysis. Sadly its true that anytime you look at anything taken and publicized thru mainstream channels, its instantly and irrevocably a Jewish plot.

>Everything I have written in this waste of time paragraph can be reduced to:

>It's the Jews, look at how they ruin the world with intent and hatred against humanity.


When will the real left stand up against the oppression of the working people by the Jewish bourgeois?



man whatever happened to Chris Ott? I miss him.



They already have, and beyond.


File: d0f5bc11266a200⋯.jpg (23.27 KB, 600x350, 12:7, b62426176a11aca2a1f763c800….jpg)


By Allah! i was lurking for these pents. what a waste of time it was.




Fuck off back to pol.



>let's get rid of the jewish bourgeoisie and replace it with a white aristocracy

nazi logic



Remember folks, it’s NEVER porky, just those damn jooooz. Exploitation by a white/Christian bourgeoisie isn’t exploitation AT ALL.



the concerns of jews in power always comes down to "degeneracy", never the exploitation of workers with /pol/ anyhow.



Surprised they haven’t pulled the “Billie promotes RACE M-I-X-I-N-G” thing yet.



>gives Lana’s Ultraviolence a 2

>gives a literal copycat album an 8

Can we all agree Fantano just killed any amount of credibility he had left?





he lost it a long time ago. never forget that he gave MBDTF a 6.



I mean, Ocean Eyes blew up on SoundCloud in 2016 didn’t it? That was the year the labels were so quick to sign anyone who went viral online. Remember Desiigner? Or why SoundCloud rap became a thing at all during this time? Labels were so afraid of artists with social media followings going indie a la Chance they offered contracts left and right.



He got old and tired of all the screeching harpies trying to get him cancelled and came to the realization that the sort of stuff he was trying to talk about just doesn't have a legacy and there were better things for him to focus on. It's a shame because whilst I disagreed with him a lot on stuff, his perspective was interesting because he actually had one, and it wasn't all just about PR & Marketing in service of Capital. In a weird sense, and bearing in mind this is a shitty analogy, he was like a real oldfag back when that actually meant something, even with the ironic distance from itself. Or like that guy who is always at the bar and can tell you a million stories some of which you know are him bullshitting but it's enteraining and insightful anyway. Like he's this Pastoral legend spinner who is just talking about the history of things, and doesn't pretend it isn't coloured by his own experiences. I think you might get a lot of answers from the r/stupidpol AMA he ended up doing after someone posted a thread about him and he was linked to it. I think the guy is still sometimes active on reddit because people send him links to stuff and he comments.



I agree, but nearly everyone who blew up and got signed to a major label with only one or two "big" songs on SoundCloud ended up being planted.



actually, see >>2854868



Pretty sure that post is a joke. "Performing a duet together on stage" =/= having sex publicly



>Like no-one actually gives a shit you sound like you're trying way too hard.

You still posted an entire paragraph in response to my "snarky comment," tho. This isn't my problem.



Her aesthetic matches her voice here. Incredible.



hi /mu/




fuck i want to see her take that huge nigger dick down her little tight white troath



>Bitches be bopping it, bow down and popping it

>Dropping it in her esophagus

>She get so nasty, in public she classy

>Perhaps she is able to swallow it

>Girl, I can make you a star

>Then I put her ass on Apollo, bitch

>>2853773 (You)

>>2853857 (You)


File: 6c4a70fa5f2f204⋯.jpg (75.61 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, maxresdefault(40).jpg)


whats with these people and the kermit voice?



Typical pseud accent.


Daily reminder /leftypol/ only stans Denzel Curry because he IS /leftypol/: loud, obnoxious, pseudo intellectual, and low key misogynistic.

>”fuck porky amirite but X and Chris Brown din-du nuffin”




She looks healthier too.



Oh ok, you're gonna be that guy. Fair enough.



Lmao put your cigar flag back on


File: bd32887cbd7ad8b⋯.jpg (1.17 MB, 1660x2560, 83:128, soul_on_iceA1qH7XRmQTL.jpg)


>>”fuck porky amirite but X and Chris Brown din-du nuffin”

There are legitimate reasons why he would say this.

Being black in America/Canada means you're under constant scrutiny by whites over your behaviour, like you're just expected to be a wild monster. If a black man is accused of violent crime, shit gets thrown on the entire black race (especially black men), who are then collectively subjugated to racial profiling, police violence, etc. so to be a black guy defending another black guy accused of domestic violence means to defend your entire group.

Plus, what's wrong with giving someone a chance to reform? Take a look at pic related for instance: Cleaver started off as a rapist and criminal only to redeem himself and become a comrade (yes, he went full reactionary later in life but then again so did many 60s radicals; give credit where credit is due).

Anyway, I'm finished with this thread. I have enough material to brainstorm so I'll just let you plebs keep talking.




Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but didn't some of the other Panthers basically say that Eldridge Cleaver was a doofus the entire time? Am I thinking of somebody else?



Plus, I get why people do this - but at the same time, it's not something you can really sympathize with 24/7. Azealia Banks did the same thing with Cosby. I know why she did it, I understand, but it doesn't mean I'm going to take up the case and be like "Well, why don't we give him a chance to reform?"

I'm not saying Chris Brown is still an asshole who beats women, but what about the women he beat? It should at least be subject to scrutiny.




13 minutes is when she starts talking about X abusing his gf. Her details are way too graphic for her to have been lying as X's supporters claim.



>Interscope proceeded to flood her music all over platforms like Spotify and Apple Music, get her a plethora of interviews in highly credible publications, and got her going on two world tours despite at the time only having released an EP. But most of all, she has an overwhelming amount of social media clout, especially on Instagram where she currently holds 16 million followers. It could be said she’s known more for her presence on the platform than her actual music (i.e. everyone knows who she is but no one can name any of her songs).

See, the trick to the viral marketing ploy is to promote someone as if they've already had a major hit or two even if they haven't. Like, you become out of the loop if you don't know who this new guy/girl is. In Billie's case she had no top 40 hit, didn't even release an album, yet got tons of media coverage, product endorsements and coveted features with other artists as if she already did. That's why everyone is already getting tired of her.


Disabled (wears retainers)



Sounds like an SJW-parody tumblr.

>poc (hijabi, cherokee great-grandmother)




Prioritizing black idpol over justice for victims doesn’t make him a better person.



>it's a substitution game, substituting itself for local culture

bingo. the reason this topic is so important (despite seeming vapid even by /leftypol/'s standards) is because it's an example of the exact shit that's happening to all forms of expression and creativity. wring out any individuality, ubiquity and talent, then replace it with whatever's most convenient to push product


So Gibi ASMR was paid to do a review on her album so it really is not a stretch to assume theneedledrop was paid as well




Its rating on RYM is still abysmal despite the Fantanobots.


File: 9b4d4808f24acef⋯.png (129.27 KB, 1241x273, 1241:273, Screen Shot 2019-04-05 at ….png)


Saw this on /mu/ in case anyone wants to come in here to start shit.


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you better believe rich white girls who's daddies turn them into "world famous singers" get the gulag

she'll be in there sharing a cell with lana del ray


File: d90d60c6232fa0d⋯.jpg (40.37 KB, 399x462, 19:22, 1526998424926.jpg)

>Threads relating to political events or discussing Marxist theorists

>Maybe pushing 50, rarely 100 posts

>Thread about some planted corporate music artist who was forced on the scene like every other planted music artist

>Over 300 posts

Stop it. I would rather anons be at each others throats over stupid political tendency shit rather than this. At least that would maybe generate something meaningful.



I'm actually impressed this is getting so high, it's hard to think most people here (if we take this thread as the majority) are into current music industry drama, though it is very shady, lots of nepotism.



To be fair, most of the serious theory threads get derailed by assholes who have no interest in theory but just want to bully and degrade others. Remember Anal Water?



>mfw we went from Joni Mitchell to this garbage


Stop posting this shit to /mu/. It isn’t funny.



/Mu/ is posting it to here.



It ain't a joke m8



Every time I browse /mu/ I can't help but notice the four Billie threads at any given time. Why not start a conversation about her and her context that's worth having?


Not that this shit matters given that the whole culture industry is bullshit, but here's one tip for scouting out who is/isn't an industry plant:

If an artist has zero "hometown" stories, they're a plant.

Meaning, if an artist says:

>"before i got signed i played a bunch of local shows *in my home town*"

>"before i released an album i made a couple of mixtapes with other local artists *from my home town*"

>"before i blew up i had a hardcore fan following *in my home town*"

They are most likely NOT a plant. That's not to say their success is entirely organic since everyone in the entertainment industry is a product, but they have more credibility to them than someone who was signed and created with nothing else in their background.

A tell-tale plant is more likely to say something along the lines of:

>"i blew up out of nowhere due to my TALENT"


>"i JUST HAPPENED to get really, really lucky."


File: a7b6a3c260fe427⋯.png (420.27 KB, 683x476, 683:476, a7b.png)

It's hilarious that everyone some Pitchfork flavor of the month hack drops a new record some newfaggot who thinks they are smart cuz they watched a couple of Cuck Philosophy videos and maybe read some Zizek or Fisher or something makes this thread and everyone it gets 100+ replies minimum



Well every time /leftypol/ tries to have a legit discussion on theory, it always gets taken over by assholes who end up arguing over something frivolous.



/leftypol/'s "theorists" are mostly cultural studies types. Basically the kind of people who prefer debord to Lenin and think that Nick Land is entertaining.




what you get when you teach people to meet a page count instead of to write exactly what you need to make the point



you just mad that you didnt think of it first

beelee eyelash


She’s ugly.


File: 52e243adb6b73d5⋯.jpg (52.6 KB, 474x474, 1:1, clairo with a fist on her ….jpg)


t. cwueermo-chan


File: 1ec8b24d8c31092⋯.png (53.89 KB, 697x703, 697:703, screen94.png)


Holy shit it's real.



Sometimes points can only be made through lengthy paragraphs and lots of details. Most grad school humanities programs don't even go by page length but by content.



theyre trying hard to give her that kurt cobain'ish alternative vibe.



Dave Grohl called Billie the "new Nirvana" if that means anything.


Honestly she is just a xanax version of Lorde without the interesting synth lines.



Todd in the Shadows warned us about the Lorde-alikes tbh.


File: d33ee86742cf083⋯.png (157.83 KB, 1273x222, 1273:222, cobainpostmu.png)



This was posted in a /mu/ thread three days ago.



Todd is a worse poptimist than Fantano TBPH. I expect him to be shilling Billie too at some point.



Hahaha that would require him to make stuff about pop music anymore.

Also can I say as a brit, apart from like one track Ellish really hasn't come over here: really not compared to Lorde.

Also I like Lorde's second album, shoot me



Lorde's MUSIC is enough to keep her interesting. Billie's claim to fame has much less to do with her music (which she doesn't even compose or write herself) and way more to do with social media. There's even talk Interscope hired a social media agency to make bot accounts to boost her Insta follower count soon after they signed her. But musically she doesn't really have much to keep her interesting.


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>Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living. And just as they seem to be occupied with revolutionizing themselves and things, creating something that did not exist before, precisely in such epochs of revolutionary crisis they anxiously conjure up the spirits of the past to their service, borrowing from them names, battle slogans, and costumes in order to present this new scene in world history in time-honored disguise and borrowed language. Thus Luther put on the mask of the Apostle Paul, the Revolution of 1789-1814 draped itself alternately in the guise of the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire, and the Revolution of 1848 knew nothing better to do than to parody, now 1789, now the revolutionary tradition of 1793-95. In like manner, the beginner who has learned a new language always translates it back into his mother tongue, but he assimilates the spirit of the new language and expresses himself freely in it only when he moves in it without recalling the old and when he forgets his native tongue.



Funny because niggers like you are the ones who also shit up the serious threads with your shitposting



I mean her stuff isn't bad, it's alright, but like Sigrid is better (mostly because she is legitimately musically talented).

Honestly knowing she doesn't write her own shit irks me because like Bad Guy is an interesting song purely because hearing about being dom'ed has like one other song and that's fucking Rihanna's S&M. But if it's just shit handed down to her? Then fuck it. Like there is nothing wrong with singing shit written for you if you are a good singer (heck one of my favourite genres is big band jazz and that is almost exclusively singing shit already written), but if you are doing something interesting but oh it wasn't you what's the point?

As for the social media stuff, I really wouldn't know, thank god.



Her brother writes all her material. She says they "collaborate" but you can bet her bro is writing 90% of the song with Billie just adding a line or two in the lyrics.



Okay that's more interesting, a kind of "The Carpenters" (but far less musically talented) style deal, still makes something like Bad Guy far more meaningless.


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Not even goofy in an amusing way, just flat-out terrible and cringey.


Emotion Carly Rae Jepsen > WWFAWDWG? Ellish.


>upper-middle-class white girl thinks fucking blacks makes her "ghetto" and "edgy"

every fucking time lmao



CRJ can actually sing. Billie just whispers into the mic, which proves she's too concerned about hitting the notes rather than demonstrating her voice.



at least it makes my dick hard


Does anyone know if Billie has a 360 Deal?



Restorative justice isn't "black idpol". It's something anarchists often talk about as an alternative to prisons.



>Eldridge Cleaver

Agree, but I don't think all of them went on to become republicans serving the exact monster they fought again.


Yeah, actually.

He became a Republican and kind of a brainlet compared to the rest.



UGS admitted he went reactionary later on. I think he/she was just using his autobiography as an example of how a piece of shit can reform.




I was asking if he was a doofus before he became reactionary, which is what I remember hearing. Like other Panthers saying bad stuff about him during his time as a Panther.


Who the fuck even is this? Fucking Zoomers.



Halfchan /mu/ makes threads about her every day. Ask them.



Tbh changes are you've heard her music.



I didn't know who this is either until this thread. I haven't browsed 4/mu/ in a while other than sharethreads. I guess their obsession with e-pop stars and music waifus never changed. I remember when the were pussy eating Grimes nonstop



Pro tip: when they say, “If Malcolm X had died at 20 he would have only been remembered as a rapist and low-life,” what they really mean is, “the way we treat bitches in our culture is OUR OWN BUSINESS you cracker.”


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Shooting black criminals in the head (95% of blacks obviously) and throwing white leftists in the pit with them will check the box of "diversity" and make homosexual jews cream their dialated frontholes all over. Niggers aren't human and look better dead and white, than red…if you understand my meaning.



Fuck off pseud. Stay on tumblr.


You as well. Stay on /pol/.



TBH I think I prefer Clairo to Billie or Grimes.

Clairo is just a daddy's-money-and-connections industry plant.

Grimes is a mommy's-money-with-connections-and-shady-shit-behind-the-scenes industry plant.

Whereas, Billie has family connections to the industry, shady shit behind the scenes, AND has been swimming in payola bucks since the day she was signed.



Let's look at what he actually said:


He never said X was "correct" to hit the girl, or that he did nothing wrong. He was calling out the media for making a spectacle of attacking X after he was killed (compare to how every time a black kid gets killed by cops, the corporate media always makes it a thing to portray the slaughtered black kid as a "thug").

>>2861617 is correct. As radical leftists, we understand almost no one (except the most vile porkies and their goons) is beyond reform; that's why we understand the importance of struggle and education. Give any dirtbag enough struggle sessions and you can make them understand their wrongdoings and transcend what they were in the past. It's never out of the realm of possibility.



Pretty stupid. It's obvious that she's a pretty talented person who comes from a family highly involved in the arts. Most families that are into music and acting do in fact try to pass it onto their kids. An extreme case is Michael Jackson, where everything you claim happened (like being abused and manufactured into music) happened, just probably 100x worse. I don't even really see how she adopted a "black" accent either, but I do know a lot of slang gets spread through social media like finna or whatever.

Anyway let people have their fun. If she's actually depressed or on drugs or something, make the "critique", other than that I find this pretty pointless. She's a teenage girl.



Adding to my point here, why the absolute fuck does it matter unless the artists are doing drugs and destroying themselves like that Lil Peep guy did anyway? Ultimately all this does is make you listen to shitty music that's specifically marketed toward edgy girls.



Just to give OP credit, I'm sure you're going to see plenty of analyses of Soundcloud shit by pomo academics in the upcoming years, although they'll be far more insufferable than what OP has written.



>I don't even really see how she adopted a "black" accent either, but I do know a lot of slang gets spread through social media like finna or whatever.

If you watch her recent interviews you'll hear it clear as a bell. She sounds like a ghetto girl from the hood similar to catch me outside girl but even cringier. She didn't talk like that in older interviews. Oh hell just watch her Vanity Fair one year apart interview and notice how "2017 Billie" doesn't talk like "2018 Billie".



I think it's a larger phenomena of this dweeby attitude that in order to be cutting edge you need to separate yourself from "the mainstream" and any synthesis of that (like the extremely diverse soundcloud music scene that at least like 7 people at my high school were also involved in) is some sort of tragedy of """late stage capitalism""". Maybe by some sort of edgy underground osmosis, Marxist cultural theory picks this up as well. I can't appreciate the bass groove or sensual lyrics of "Bad Guy" - the first song on that album, because now I'm blessed with the knowledge that Billie Eilish is 100% grande-bourgeoisie encroaching on some sort of "people's culture". It's all just very, very stupid. I might as well critically think about listening to Shostakovich and Prokofiev for being Stalinist music industry plants, or Hans Zimmer for aiding in the production of fascist propaganda films like Dunkirk or TKD.


I really don't hear it besides her dropping slang words like "his album is fire!". It's not even a cringey way to speak by itself anyway. Next you're going to say Billie Eilish is trying to steal black culture by eating fried chicken and watermelon.



Nothing in the OP is a moralistic critique of consumerism or whatever. What I take from it is how a modern pop star can be totally fabricated, all their dirty secrets have been out in the open from day one, yet is not only promoted as "DIY"/"indie" but consumers overwhelmingly fall for it. That's not "muh ethical consumption", that's just pointing out what's in the air and the absurdity shit has come to.

But there's no reasoning with malignant dickwads. Goodnight sir.



The fact that you used moralistic in a derisive tone does make me malignant. Stop acting like you're some big brained Mark Fisher type for rejecting some sort of normie politics about caring. The basis of politics is literally morality.

Anyway, I'll say again, if this was even all true and people genuinely believe she's some sort of indie artist and this was some sort of deliberate campaign, who the fuck cares? I can understand it for something like country music, where I'd prefer the singer to also be the songwriter and speak from the heart, not the Premier of Saskatchewan's kid just riffing on outlaw country. But Billie Eilish isn't singing about working in the coal mines. It's all relatable teen girl stuff. Why care or get mad at it?


these anons are really getting into it



Okay Charlemagne is legitimately hilarious all through this.

>”did XXX’s murder affect you?”

>”did your brother’s murder affect you?”

>”I enjoyed being molested, what about you?”

Also curry sounds like a fucking aesthete. Fucking art school kids mane.


"Hey comrades let's discuss this noteworthy leftist theorist."

>12 replies before derailing into shit

"Hey comrades let's discuss this corporate pop star."

>430 replies




you must be new here


She simply stole the show at Coachella. You watched it, right Anon?



There is literally zero logical reason for Lil Xan to be alive.



Lil' Xan is cute tho



haha yeah she definitely did anon!


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Saw this shit at a local cafe here in a major Canuckistani city. Fucking kill me NAO.



>Also curry sounds like a fucking aesthete. Fucking art school kids mane.

Every Lenin needs a Gorky.


To all the people upset by this thread: fuck you. Pop culture is extremely important for leftists to pay attention to (lots of celebrities supported Huey for example).


File: 82f25a0f906672f⋯.jpg (104.37 KB, 1479x986, 3:2, Uphold Marxism-Kaultuskyis….jpg)


Still doesn't mean we can't shit on a particular artist.

Also we should encourage proletarian-sourced elements of pop culture like grime.




<Pop culture magazines/newspapers

lol does anyone even read them nowadays?



Think of it this way: the bigger they are, the harder they fall. X was killed for the sake of clout, his killers specifically targeted him because of his tremendous fame and they knew they'd gain infamy by killing him. Look at who was popping on the charts 10 years ago and tell me who's still making great music (the only person I can think of is Gaga, and that's because she's Juilliard-trained). Taylor Swift and Beyoncé haven't put out anything worthwhile in years. Oh hell, Lorde's sophomore LP was a dud compared to her debut. Billie will follow suit: either she'll be ruined by a scandal, or her second LP won't live up to her first and she'll be gone in no time.



So what reason would the mainstream media have to be promoting her so much?



Because they think that "OMG GEN Z LUUUVVVV HEEEERRRR" and want to get clicks from young people since they are dying.




>The basis of politics is literally morality

nigga you serious rn?


If Billie did decide to sing about politics, which political issues should she sing about?

My pick: smashing the gender binary (given her rejection of corporate femininity).



Piss off.



There have been 3-4 posts now that seem like the OP trying to keep his thread alive without using his name.

It's okay to be obsessed with a legal teenage girl, as long as you admit it to yourself and don't start jumping through hoops about it. I used to be obsessed with Clairo for three months. After looking deeper into her and abandoning my mental image of her as a cutely arrogant, artistic girl, I realized that she has no personality and is fat-facedly basic.


Anchoring this thread because OP tries way too hard to keep it on life support.



ok cunt

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