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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

A collective of people engaged in pretty much what the name suggests
Winner of the 77nd Attention-Hungry Games
/x/ - Paranormal Phenomena and The RCP Authority

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File: 47eadf9bead26b0⋯.jpg (25.3 KB, 479x409, 479:409, AbusiveParent.jpg)

 No.2856130

All parents are abusive because parenting is abusive by nature.

When it comes to the parents who neglect and beat their kids (which I have experience with) it's just a matter of degree.

All parents are abusive for the same reasons that all governments are abusive, all cooperation are abusive, all bosses are abusive, and all monarchies are abusive.

I don't understand how people can disapprove of child-adult romantic relationships but also approve of parenting.

They're both bad for much of the same reasons (children can't consent, children are vulnerable even in consensual relationships, e.t.c).

 No.2856131

It's probably just a literal teenager and/or gay/trans person who hates their conservative parents (understandable but I think we need to avoid creating "theory" solely to address personal problems that aren't shared by the majority of proles.)


 No.2856135

File: 8d915f77138814a⋯.gif (482.41 KB, 1048x594, 524:297, molyjew.gif)

GET OUT STEFAN!!!!


 No.2856136

I think this is a problem which all of the proles share, because they all have parents.

"The family" is where everyone experiences abuse and exploitation for the first time because it is the first place where people experience violence-backed authority based hierarchies, power through private property ownership (over the household) and social conditioning in order to be forced into your role in the capitalist system.


 No.2856151

Of course, there are obvious non-marxist related reasons as to why biological parents should not automatically be the people to raise their children.

>> There aren't any legal standards upheld in order to ensure that the parent is actually competent in raising their child, other than the parent is not physically abusive (psychological abuse doesn't normally count and sexual abuse is often overlooked). "Don't be physically abusive" is a pretty low legal standard for a caretaker to have.

>> Parents, because they don't normally receive training in child-care, are all essentially beginner, amateur caretakers. They don't know what they are doing, and so will inevitably screw up in their job of raising the child.

>> The power dynamic between children and parents naturally leads to abuse. It always does.

I haven't seen a single parent-child relationship that I can call healthy.

I look at how most parents and children are really unstable with one-another, and I think "if these guys were a romantic couple, they would have broken up by now".

But, unlike with romantic couples, parents can not break up with their children (until the child is old enough that they can be kicked out, sometimes as low as 16), and children cannot break up with their parents.


 No.2856159

dude kill your parents lmao

>anarkiddies


 No.2856165

For the record, I'm not the anarchist who made the original post on /anarchism/.

I'm not an anarchist, but I do agree with the post, which is why I reposted it here where it would get more attention.

Seriously, you don't have to be an anarchist to see how disturbing and nonsensical parent-child relationships are.


 No.2856168

>>2856165

What exactly is disturbing about it?


 No.2856180

I described it in my previous posts


 No.2856242

>>2856165

How is it disturbing? That’s like saying birth is disturbing.


 No.2856245

File: 7395b52913e52c1⋯.jpg (88.13 KB, 634x892, 317:446, hm.jpg)

Doesn't the fact that partent-child relationships exist in every society to ever exist mean there must be some merit to it?


 No.2856251

>>2856245

There's plenty of societies with communal child rearing though


 No.2856258

I think the reason parents and children have bad relationships is because the parents are too alienated from their children due to the grindstones of work and school. If parents and children actually had both the time and the energy at the end of the day to honestly communicate and learn from each other both parties would benefit. They're also alienated from the rest of the community, a healthy mix of communal and personal child rearing is probably for the best.


 No.2856262

>>2856251

Name one that doesn't rely on kin networks for that. Also kibbutzim don't count. Settler colonial living is not real life.


 No.2856266

File: f84d4f47d195870⋯.jpg (38.86 KB, 438x683, 438:683, hearty_laff.jpg)

>>2856262

of course the christ fag wants mommy and daddy to rule over our lifes as long as humans exist


 No.2856270

>>2856130

Are you mentally ill or just trolling?


 No.2856291

Obviously all parents are abusive. What's the implication you're implying? That we should get rid of the relationship entirely? Stupid and won't happen.

>>2856151

>parents can not break up with their children (until the child is old enough that they can be kicked out, sometimes as low as 16), and children cannot break up with their parents.

If the idea is that we open up more alternatives for people then I'm all about it, but this problem will always persist to some degree. You can't give parents the possibility to just "break up" with their children. People who get a child have an obligation to care for it. Changing this will only allow for more abusive practices.

I'm more sympathetic to giving kids the possibility to walk off at any time, but only if returning is equally easy.

That being said, kids shouldn't be able to exist without any guardianship. Someone has to be responsible for them at all times. Perhaps switching guardianship should be simpler, and the exact responsibilities people carry should vary, but at all times someone has to stand for it that the fundamental needs of the child are being met.


 No.2856301

Yea it's called life in general. If you're arguing for children go to be raised in an orphanage, that's pretty fucking dumb if I do say so myself.

>>2856266

Wtf I love christfags now!


 No.2856311

Children will always be at an obvious and distinct disadvantage to adults. You can't get rid of hierarchy between adults and children the same way you can't get rid of hierarchy between able-bodied people and cripples. You can remove influences that promote violent or authoritarian behavior, but that's about it. A major way to do that is to ditch the nuclear family for larger family units, spreading the burden of child rearing among more people (having kids literally drops your Autism Level from all the lost sleep).

That's a structural change, but there are social changes too. Look into peaceful parenting and non-violent communication.


 No.2856321

>>2856266

what she doing in that pic?


 No.2856322

Are abusive parents really the norm? I didn't have the best upbringing but it's not like I was being prostituted or thrown literally to the wolves.

Anyway narcho theory is shit-tastic and whiny. Kids have to learn values from somewhere, and they will learn from somewhere whether there's a parent or not because that's what young children do to adapt to their environment.

If you really are bothered by the problems presented by childhood though, you have to find a different way for humans to reproduce (or extend life indefinitely and find a way to regenerate the body), and then you'd have to radically alter the human consciousness and self of ourselves. Even then you're not going to get everyone to go along with it because your ideas are great, and there are sadly those people whose whole reason for living is to lord over others and revel in their suffering. Such is the world.

You really don't arrive at any answers to this quandry, and I don't think such answers are presently something humanity could begin to solve unless the solution is to just kill everything (and I have yet to see a convincing argument as to why that solution is bad).

To those who are suggesting it though - no, socialism doesn't solve all of our human problems, nor is capitalism the hobgoblin behind every evil thing that exists. You're going to have shit parents, shit schools (and an absolutely toxic purpose behind the schooling), shitty nepotism and favor-trading in the government, and so on. Any "system" you propose is going to have exploitable loopholes and opportunities for corruption, and only vigilance can protect against that corruption.


 No.2856324

>I don't understand how people can disapprove of child-adult romantic relationships but also approve of parenting

You have to think of what's best for people, and therefore society as a whole. Is there something better than child-adult relationships? of course, the relationship not happening at all. On the other hand, someone being raised by no one is usually worse than having parents, so there you go.


 No.2856334

>>2856321

she close her eyes by accident, she cute


 No.2856336

>>2856130

Ok you don’t like the family? What’s your proposed alternative to the reproduction of society that you think is better? And you better have one because the reproduction of society in a nessicary thing.


 No.2856343


 No.2856345

>>2856334

oh. cause i was about to say it looks like she's grinding on something…


 No.2856347

>>2856345

FUCK YEAH DUDE


 No.2856352

Of course the nuclear family must be destroyed. It is one of the main sources of reproduction of capitalism.


 No.2856353

>>2856352

the nuclear family, more like, the fossil fuel family


 No.2856354

File: 6500ed0671d7afc⋯.png (393.41 KB, 1000x940, 50:47, 1554130664060.png)

so this…is the power of anarchism


 No.2856362

>>2856352

>It is one of the main sources of reproduction of capitalism.

>The reproduction of society is bad because it occurs under capitalism

Is this the power of nihilism?


 No.2856414

Looking at the the family structure in the present and feeling odd about it is like looking at capitalism and having the sense that it is wrong in some way, yet not knowing of the science of Marxism to apply to it – family is an extension of capitalism in one of its most primitive forms and the principles of Marxism may thusly be so extended to it without a stretch. Found these quotes recently:

>For most of history kids were a slave, companion, retirement plan, and punching bag combo all for the low low price and a few bowls of grain a day and some milk.

>And they still are. If you're poor, the taxpayer will subsidize the spawn's education, healthcare, and food. Some of these taxpayers are non breeders. In exchange the spawn can work a minimum wage job in order to pay the parents rent and in the future pay for their inevitable dying state. The landlords get richer and the parents offload their work at the expense of the kids and the taxpayers. It's a giant ponzi scheme.

No wonder it all sounds so familiar. At this point in history this institution is grossly inappropriate especially within a socialist context, at least without severe state constraints. It is very true that ordinary people, and in particular those whose incompetence is brought out by the capitalist order, are in no place to properly raise children, without any controls least of which may be social (one or two angry parents may personally pissed off by a child may administer wrathful treatment, especially in private, yet a neighborhood will have the mercy of those afflicted by bias, similar to how a parent not there to witness an offense by a child, let alone be the subject of it, will think lesser of it.)

…And no doubt, once socialism is all well and established, the family will be replaced by communal child rearing, and people will look back on the family as something as primitive as capitalism, belonging in the same family, categorically as it. Maybe farther in the future we'll have something even cooler like people being born fully-developed, hence the need for "child-rearing" disappearing or people just being eternal idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


 No.2856415

>>2856130

>parents who neglect and beat their kids (which I have experience with)

Stop hitting your kids, OP.


 No.2856418

File: f7c710b33f6e63e⋯.png (206.65 KB, 500x406, 250:203, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2856130

>ultraleftism


 No.2856435

File: cad63a011241d51⋯.jpeg (23.16 KB, 500x403, 500:403, 7F19AD34-588F-44CE-A6FC-9….jpeg)

>>2856130

>anarlibs

The ride never ends with their shitty ‘oppression olympics’.


 No.2856673

>>2856130

lol this is what happens when you oppose the abstract concept of "hierarchy" you just start believing nonsense completely out of line with common sense and biology like "all parents are oppressors."


 No.2856769

I must say I don't like the nuclear family either. I think either extended family or living in communes (with people other than your biological parents raising you) would be a lot better. Parents, like family, aren't a choice, and sometimes (I would say often) they are shitty people. The reason why they are shitty people can be linked to material conditions but I don't think that's the only variable here.


 No.2856781

>>2856130

>All parents are abusive because parenting is abusive by nature.

How? Parents raise their children and teach them to the best of their ability.

<some parents beat their children

Not an inherent problem of parenting, those same adults would beat children who are not theirs, they're just scummy people in general. For someone who later states cooperation is 'abusive' you seem to have have no idea what individual consequence is.

>all cooperation are abusive

Fuck off Rothbard

>children can't consent

More false equivalencies

who ever made this OP needs to go see a therapist for their projected daddy/mommy issues.


 No.2856809

>>2856414

>It is very true that ordinary people, and in particular those whose incompetence is brought out by the capitalist order, are in no place to properly raise children

Who are you to say that. Parents absolutely have the right to raise their children this is proven by the fact that children do better when they are raised by their parents. Just compare normal kids with orphans.

>muh kibbutz

The Kibbutz in terms of child raising were a failure, because humans have evolved in family like structure to avoid incest, people don’t become sexually attracted to their siblings. But in the Kibbutz because children were raised completely communally when they grew up they weren’t sexually attracted to anyone in their age group, because they were all raised together. This caused people to leave the Kibbutz.

>>2856769

>with people other than your biological parents raising you

Do you really think strangers would do better?

>>2856769

>Parents, like family, aren't a choice, and sometimes (I would say often) they are shitty people.

Do you really think random strangers would be less shity?

>>2856769

>Parents, like family, aren't a choice

People don’t chose who their neighbors are, who their coworkers are, or pretty much most of the people around them are. And if people did choose, society would just be a bunch of tiny bubbles.


 No.2856816

>>2856809

> Just compare normal kids with orphans.

Not a fair comparison. Orphan kids are looked down upon by society, they also grow their whole lives believing their biological parents hated them. Also most orphanages aren't very well maintained and generally don't give enough attention to the kids.

>Do you really think strangers would do better?

At the very least, more people rising you up opens you to more points of view and shared time between "parents" which would cover more attention, love and all that jazz. Note that I think extended families, by that I mean living with your parents alongside your uncles and grandparents, would also be better than the nuclear family.

> People don’t chose who their neighbors are, who their coworkers are, or pretty much most of the people around them are. And if people did choose, society would just be a bunch of tiny bubbles.

Yes, that's true. We also don't choose where we are born, which leads to a lot of inequality. People don't choose to be born in India, or be born with a genetic disease.

Say I end up working in a place where I experience racism, should I just suck it up and let it be?


 No.2856841

>>2856130

>reddit

>spacing


 No.2857130

>>2856816

>At the very least, more people rising you up opens you to more points of view

That’s what teachers are for

>>2856816

>by that I mean living with your parents alongside your uncles and grandparents, would also be better than the nuclear family.

It’s a good idea, however in the present day you often have extended families that live in different countries and regions.

>>2856816

>Say I end up working in a place where I experience racism, should I just suck it up and let it be?

The best solution is to try and change people’s minds.


 No.2857195

>>2856130

As a monarchist you can go fuck yourself. Just because your parents are abusive doesn't mean I have to take shit from you.

>I don't understand how people can disapprove of child-adult romantic relationships but also approve of parenting.

I hate to say this, but nobody gives a fuck about that either, it's just yet another arbitrary rule we embrace to give ourselves some veneer of not being total degenerates, even though we objectively are. It's not important, so nobody cares when Mohamed from Afghanistan shows up in Europe with his 4 child brides. Just thank the Lord you're not one of them.

Now fuck off, and go do your chores like your parents told you to.


 No.2857216

>>2857195

yugofag i can see your flag you ain't no monarchist nigga or pedo nigga quit being funny


 No.2857219

>>2857216

I chose the flag because Tito was cool, not because of allegiance. As for the joke about pedophilia, it's sort of true. We are bullshit artists as a species


 No.2857221

>>2857219

don't even shit on me mane you no want king man no queen man you ain't no serf man shit's not rad man


 No.2857222

Yo, my dad, he's not like the rest

He's kinda like a cute girl, just minus the breasts

He got a solid 4-inch dick, it's hanging and swaying

And when I get home from school, he's always laying there waiting for me to

Take off my shoes, my shirt, and my pants

And then we go to my room and do a nice little dance

I call it "sex with my dad," and don't get it wrong

I only fuck my own dad, and never my mom

I'm saying…

Ooh-ooh, I'm in love with my dad

Suckin' my dad's toes and grabbing his sack, yeah

Ooh-ooh, I'm in love with my dad

Lickin' my dads nuts, this shit is so rad, ayy

I've been fuckin' my dad since I was 18

Jugglin' nuts in my mouth and drinkin' hot pee

Garglin' dad juice and twistin' his scrote, yo

This sex with my father is like a romance book that I wrote

Flip to the last page, tell me what you see

It's some beautiful scenery of my dad cumming on me, ayy

You might say it's weird, you might say it's crass

But I disagree because I love fucking my dad, ayy

They call me mad (okay)

They say it's bad (nope)

But I say it's just fatherly love in the best way to be had

(that's right)

So catch me posted on that block, holdin' his hand

Because I love my father, and I love what's in his pants, ayy


 No.2861466

>>2856130

Jesus, I am a freaking anarchist (Or whereabouts) and these people freak me the fuck out.


 No.2861472

>>2861466

you are alright fam


 No.2861481

mom said it was my turn on the computer


 No.2861550

>Anarchists are teenagers going through their rebellious stage: The Post

Now Jordan Peterson makes sense.

TIDY YOUR ROOM


 No.2861553

>>2861550

>TIDY

like tits?


 No.2861616

File: bef1cdbb9830a2a⋯.jpg (20 KB, 236x347, 236:347, sovietfamily.jpg)

>>2856130

this is the most retarded radlib shit I've ever heard

Doesn't even warrant a response

>>2856151

>I haven't seen a single parent-child relationship that I can call healthy.

>>2856165

>see how disturbing and nonsensical parent-child relationships are.

>>2856352

>Of course the nuclear family must be destroyed. It is one of the main sources of reproduction of capitalism.

Capitalism is near completely responsible for eradicating the nuclear family but okay


 No.2862292

most parents are abusive but your thread is shit


 No.2864058

>>2856130

I think that parenting would be much more effective if it was done professionally.


 No.2864061

>>2856136

Sure, but if your only working solution to this it so submit to a centralized authority instead, then it's appropriate to kill you in the street and put your severed hands, head and feet on public display.


 No.2864067

It's fascinating how many people on leftypol are incapable of viewing systemic violence outside of having it spoon-fed to them by pre-approved leftist authors.

Yes, the parent-child relationship of the nuclear family is one inherently abusive by its setup. It's not because "hurr all parents bad", it's because the way society has set up the family, children are barely even recognized as people and more recognized as the property of their parents. You guys are laughing at this while there is a resurgence of children-property being denied proper healthcare causing a resurgence in outbreaks of fucking measles.

You guys are arguing that a social relation in which one person, who has total command of another person's entire being, over every scrap of food they get, over their shelter, who are even now being denied healthcare because of their parents' beliefs, who could face death or lifelong scarring from injury by disease, one that is condoned by the law and all the violent systems that it contains, is not an abusive relationship? The only way in which we even attempt to combat the worst abuses is inherently flawed because it effectively relies on having children identify and report their own abuses that they grew up with thinking as normal.


 No.2864126

>>2864067

Good post, I agree. The OP post is still cringe tho.


 No.2864172

>>2864067

>barely even recognized as people and more recognized as the property of their parents

Except that before a certain age they're not quite people, or rather they're not developed enough to be able to be fully-functional people. Have you ever wondered why often times things involving children have a label requiring parents to be around? Because kids are often illogical.

As for 'property of their parents' that's straight up untrue, more and more often today kids are suing their parents or calling the cops or otherwise acting independently, and this shit is just starting.

Yes nuclear families aren't the best thing, but frankly the concept of nuclear families hasn't been a consistent thing ANYWHERE since the 1960s, the parents are either both working or single-raising their children because capitalism.

>a resurgence of children-property being denied proper healthcare causing a resurgence in outbreaks of fucking measles.

<MUH VACCINES

People are denying children vaccines because the capitalist medical system is so unreliable and questionable that parents no longer trust it. Vaccines DO have side-effects, even the government's OWN SITE ON HEALTH implies this heavily: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

Now consider the fact that the US health-system is literally 'take a pill' and you realize that any human being, let alone a parent wouldn't want to go anywhere near that shit. You didn't see that in the USSR because state-healthcare

> who has total command of another person's entire being

Because that person is not physically or mentally capable of commanding themself.

Again your example clearly referring to abusive parents is an INDIVIDUAL problem, NOT one inherent to parents over-all.

>relies on having children identify and report their own abuses that they grew up with thinking as normal.

Actually most abuse reports rely on other adults. Again, you criticize an individual problem, present it as an inherent one yet provide no solution. You haven't cared for children before most likely because holy fuck are you projecting.

>You guys are laughing

We're laughing at the fucking OP being a fag in their cherry-picked nebulous statement against parents, with yours being the same shit, just worded better.

Lastly, read Lord of the Flies, that ought to give you an idea of what CHILDREN left to their own devices will do. If you still don't understand I suggest you study child gangs in Russia to understand why letting children 'own themselves' is retarded.

TL;DR

You're cherry-picking individual abuses and applying it to all parents while providing no solutions. The idea of family is something that evolved in primates and other high-intelligence animals like Whales and Elephants and is a concept that continues to prevail BECAUSE of its effectiveness and the fact that the net positive far outweighs the net negative. Any issues in families and parenting today are not inherent to families or parenting but to CAPITALISM.


 No.2864176

>>2864172

*because state-healthcare under socialism is for the people and the doctors and medics have not a profit motive, but a motive to help the people.


 No.2864214

>>2864172

>Lastly, read Lord of the Flies, that ought to give you an idea of what CHILDREN left to their own devices will do

I don't disagree with the body of your post but this is just "read 1984"-tier.


 No.2864259

>>2864214

You realize he's an autist that agrees with Alex Jones's "Vaccines are evil" bullshit?

It's nice seeing conspiracy theories destroy you LARPers.


 No.2864270

>>2864214

>this is just "read 1984"-tier.

I don't have a problem with 1984, it has some flaws but the general idea isn't wrong. I only majorly disagree when people try to say that 1984 was about the USSR, when it is clearly about Capitalism. I think the analogy you were going for is "Read Animal Farm" however that also doesn't function, Lord of the Flies is a psychological novel that presents a very real is slightly exaggerated picture on how the stranded boys would act like. This is in direct contrast to, say, Jule Verne's book Two Years' Vacation.

TL;DR my suggestion to read Lord of the Flies was more to get a general grasp of why parental guidance and control of children is necessary. Adults can, of course, act like those boys in the novel, but are less likely to do so, or would degrade far more slowly because of their more developed mental and physical capacities.

>>2864259

>He agrees with Alex Jones "Vaccines are evil"

No, no I don't. You're just putting words in my mouth.

>nice seeing conspiracy theories destroy you LARPers.

I could dig up a half-dozen research papers and you wouldn't believe me, so I won't bother with that, I'll just point out that you literally don't know what LARPing is because it is completely inapplicable to this conversation.


 No.2864275

File: f96100e3884f803⋯.jpg (75.96 KB, 1026x675, 38:25, measles_4x3.jpg)

>>2864270

enjoy your children with measles bro


 No.2864299

File: befc2f60fb50ba6⋯.jpg (70.18 KB, 720x597, 240:199, ok retard.jpg)

>>2864275

>enjoy your children with measles


 No.2864449

I think the primary problem is capitalism, wherein people are forced to prioritize work over family cohesion.

The temptation here is to see this as a liberal talking point for people who supplant anticapitalism with "Fuck you, dad!", but the truth is that there really is a problem with child rearing in capitalist society.

Consider that the root of the problem is not that it is too easy to become a parent or there's not a Child Rearing Bureau in which we are all raised by dispassionate pencil-pushers, but rather that capitalism is causing dysfunction in our society (a wild concept, I know)


 No.2864456

>>2864067

Children are fundamentally incapable of taking care of themselves. If your salient point is that, "children ought to be free from control", well, you're living in a pipe dream, because realistically the only thing that could replace a family is another form of stewardship.


 No.2864477

File: d98b1f44db2c678⋯.jpg (70.46 KB, 500x500, 1:1, society.w700.h700.jpg)

"mental illness" is an institutional term to discriminate against economic/social deviants. the abused become the spice of life. never forget it, kid. you're special.


 No.2864532

>>2864270

>I don't have a problem with 1984, it has some flaws but the general idea isn't wrong. I only majorly disagree when people try to say that 1984 was about the USSR, when it is clearly about Capitalism.

Where have you been all my life?


 No.2864544

>>2864532

the irony is delicious when people like JBP point to 1984 as an example of a tyrannical society when he is fighting to preserve it.


 No.2865089

>>2856131

It sounds like 14-year-old edgelordism, the only treatment is to allow the subject to have 10 years to grow up in and with any degree of luck, the subject will have matured and be ready to join the adults.


 No.2865095

>>2864477

good post


 No.2865099

>>2865089

Americans don't mature, they're trapped in eternal adolescence, so I doubt anything will change will this child.


 No.2865132

File: b7c248430486f02⋯.jpg (91.48 KB, 640x640, 1:1, b7c248430486f029d78c05e55d….jpg)

>>2865099

Am American can confirm.




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