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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 8b15408dc4ed305⋯.jpg (114.83 KB, 1080x1414, 540:707, IMG-20190118-WA0000.jpg)


Previous thread- >>2838096

Brexit potentially delayed,

Elections in NI for council in may,

Potentially EU elections after.

Where's the RA when you need them most?



>Brexit potentially delayed

Please I just want out, I don't care what deal this is going on too long



I hear you, a large part of me really wants to see what happens with a no-deal scenario. I'm in Belfast so I imagine utter Fucking chaos here :L


Honestly, the EU elections being a thing are gonna piss off a lot of brexiteers.



sums the cunt up nicely

finally i agree with europe!

good job we don't have guns……..


File: 3aaa4da4763c572⋯.png (403.08 KB, 1185x584, 1185:584, ClipboardImage.png)



we will always look after loyal friends


can't tell if europhiles using the cook islands flag on twitter is #FBPE bullshittery (look, it's got the british flag AND a circle of stars! it MUST be fit for my appropriation) or just like two people who've actually been to/got relation to the small nation in the realm of new zealand that i've correlated into a trend based on paranoia and a bitterness that i'm stuck with the UK.


Dutchie here. Are any of you aware of the capital flight that the British bourgeoisie is undertaking? Amsterdam might replace London as the centre of finance.



wait does this mean that most of those UKIP voters are projected to vote labour now?



Some of them yeah, this is what happened in 2017.



Amsterdam will replace London as the centre of finance when Amsterdam becomes a weird city-state where you can legally launder mondey because you have Aldermen elected by companies. Until then, nah.

There is some capital flight mind, but it's mostly going to Dublin.



No, but not sure what this has to do with british politics…



then put it in the internet shit thread.



>a weird city-state where you can legally launder mondey because you have Aldermen elected by companies

sounds like Amsterdam really



Except the City of London literally is that. It's not an accident it become the financial capital of Europe, it is due to its unique governmental system.



>>2860236 (me)

Also should be noted that some of them are Green protest votes that are repatriating.


>Proposed repeal. The Conservative Party manifesto at the 2017 general election proposed repealing the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011. To do so would require a new Act of Parliament.

hey finally a tory policy i unironically agree with 100%

friendship ended with reheated social democracy now blairism is my new friend



Nah a lot probably went to Brexit probably. Honestly susprised to see Brexit and UKIP in different European groups



Well nUKIP and BXT are basically the two wings of modern right-wing populism: the ethnonationalist and civic nationalist branches. Hence the Civic Nat branch goes into EFDD, and likely into ECR after the EU elections, and the Ethnonat lot joins the ENF.


File: f0e078f99d7fc7c⋯.png (1.71 MB, 1046x1152, 523:576, ClipboardImage.png)

Tbh, can't wait for Punished Miliband to enter into a socialist Labour Cabinet. Would make a good foreign sec tbh.




They'll make it as hard as they can if we get a hard Brexit (unlikely as it is) because otherwise it will encourage others


I can't see the City of London allowing that to any great degree. They have the privilege of being a city state which is extremely attractive to financiers and has been exploited for hundreds of years. In fact, they may flourish again because they will be free of some of the EU's restrictions


sometimes i wonder if the problem with this country is that nobody ever leaves the mindset of half-arsing things for uni.

the half-arsing government minister reads his half-arsed policy document cited from sources the author knows are unreliable but easier to churn out text to than searching for the truth, the same approach those sources took with their sources, and so on and so on until whatever point on the past people used to actually care and try.

and then, naturally, i cite the same half-arsed policy documents in my 2 days late essay, telling myself i'll never do it again. and of course i won't. not until the next time.



kinda surprised the UKIP voters mostly went to Labour.

I hope this happens just to make Brexiteers panic and spook May hardcore



So they're calling themselves ChUK, not CUK? Has that unbelievable egotist named the party after himself?



ChUK's suck'n'fuck

formerly: The SDP/Liberal Alliance



That's not quite the movement (beware seeing shrinking bars and growing bars and thinking they are direct links) but still.

Also apparently Labour would put the S&D into the role of EU president: unironically Corbyn could cuck Juncker the geriatric cunt.


Nah that's just what UK elects calls them.


Please, the SDP were to the left of Blair and had principles.



>A confirmatory referendum is the 'right' (moral, democratic) thing to do

Why is it that Leave has to win several times in order to be implemented, but Remain only has to win once? Why is no-deal to be kept off the ballot paper, even though it's the most popular form of Brexit? Why even have Remain on the ballot paper, when it's already been rejected? It would be far more democratic to have a simple run-off between the various forms of Brexit. And this isn't even bringing up the obvious bad faith of this stuff being put forward by people who never wanted the 2016 referendum to start with and only want a referendum now so they can reverse the first one. I presume that none of them would agree to a third referendum if Remain wins the second one, even though the public may of course change their mind again.



>Why is it that Leave has to win several times in order to be implemented, but Remain only has to win once?

this isn't strictly true though. if remain wins again, those in favour of leaving are free to campaign for a third referendum. at some point you hit a sense of fatigue or approach self-parody, but it's not like losing a second independence referendum would kill the SNP forever either.

there's something about real political power lurking in this analysis tbh. the sort of intertia and balance of forces at play that reveal the really relevant thing isn't murmuring about the ethics of holding votes.



>those in favour of leaving are free to campaign for a third referendum

Yeah but if they were consistent, People's Voters would be fine with a third referendum in another few years, to check that the people still wanted to remain in the EU. In reality they would be aghast. They pretty much expect Leave voters to shut up and fuck off once the second referendum produces the correct result (in fact they're gleefully looking forward to this)..


IMO from a pragmatic standpoint it may be best that Corbyn offers a second ref, but only if it is on his version of Brexit. This is purely because passing anything, be it a hard, soft, or no brexit through parliament, will be pretty controversial and damaging. However saying "We want this deal, we are willing to put it to the public for ascension" is more sound politically, and also you can frame it as "this deal or something else", not necessarily "this deal vs remain".

Still, that's just my opinion. Should be noted that such a confirmatory referendum would not be out-of-place in most European countries.



I respect EFDD far more than ENF due to former being the most vehemently resistant to Article 13. ENF is honestly just upset that EU is fucking things up their way.



Tbf the EFDD is mostly a meme at this point: both the AfD and M5S are leaving to found their own groups.



Well it was fun while it lasted. EFDD was the only group that wanted EU to crash and burn.



Well a load of the EFDD members are going with M5S to form their own meme syncratic soft eurosceptic group so that could be funny.



Seems unlikely. I live in a Labour stronghold but everyone I know, including myself, intends to vote UKIP if we are dragged into an EU election.


Is this peak Guardian? Under the irony it's basically just calling Leave voters racist scum.



>also you can frame it as "this deal or something else", not necessarily "this deal vs remain".

Labour is being run by the People's Vote crowd now and they all want Remain or bust. That's why they always say 'with Remain on the ballot paper' whenever they refer to a second referendum. IIRC the left of the party has discussed having a referendum without Remain or a referendum with multiple Leave options, but it's never got anywhere. Corbyn is doing a good job of stalling but ultimately he's signed up to Starmer's 'six tests' which make any possible deal unacceptable to Labour and therefore oblige Labour to back Remain.



Just put more options on the ballot, so nothing gets 50%+1 vote



shouldn't have said mostly as Im not some brainlet who doesn't realize its not direct transfers 100% of the time. but even considering shifts from say the tories to labour like 5-9% of UKIPs loss went back to Labour, which Im still surprised by.


Is there any economically left wing ideology that not only allows old fashioned social views but actively encourages them?



There's Blue Labour or the SDP party if you want Left Wing economics and actually reactionary/communitarian views. But for ideology I guess S.trasserism might apply?



Strasserism might a good option. I like their views on jews. I'll have to do more research before I embrace it though. The SDP might be ok as well. Perhaps a bit too centrist on economics and they don't really go far enough on the immigration issue. Give me some examples of Blue Labour? I recently heard of Eddie Dempsey and watched his speech at the Labour Leave conference and he seems a decent lad. The issue with anything Labour is having to associate with cunts. Most Labour voters I know are good people but the party membership and especially the MPs are cancer.



If you're interested in Blue Labour, they have their own website with info about them plus they have some stuff on social media. I'm sure with some searching around you can find the PDFs of their books. Also yeah Labour has an infestation of Blairite and FBPE melts, I wish they'd leave for the Lib Dems or CUKs



Oh, that's what happened in 2017 tbh.


Blue Labour, here's a primer:




Yeah the issue with the party membership is that it is made of activists, while the new intake under Corbyn was mostly working class there was a large number of returners. If I were Labour party gen sec I would push for safe seat voters and trade union members to join wholesale.


They've just agreed to extend Brexit again until 31st October, with every extension you already know parliament is getting closer and closer to revoking article 50. The melts at r/ukpolitics aren't even hiding their intentions



Should be noted that the UK can leave when it wants, the extension is about the hard cap at the end.



They're just going to extend brexit, and due to this Theresa May has an excuse to keep being around for fucking ever, because it's "an emergency".





Thanks lads. They seem like an appropriate group for me but i'll certainly need to read more. Easier said than done after working a nine hours and fulfilling social obligations/responsibilities but i'll find the time. I live in a safe Labour constituency but i'm not a big fan of the MP. She isn't going with the FPBE types for fear of the Leave majority but is a Blairite at heart. The local activists are definitely an issue. I'd love to see a return to a working class membership.



>old fashioned social views


>Strasserism might a good option. I like their views on jews.

why not just say racism, antisemitism and homophobia


Wtf Scargill is still alive?


In 2469 the sentient program eMay and its robovessel, full emissaries of the British caliphate wielding power both temporal and spiritual arrive into nuBXL, capital of the European Transunion. In the background holographic fireworks celebrate the 450th anniversary of Br3xit.

D0nald T3sk XXVII "the debonair", sublime chairman of the Transunion and his loyal mandarin Cybarnier recieve them in the palace of hard light, the jewel of Neoversailles. Solemnly eMay is granted another year's extension to the Br3xit process. As it was, is and forever shall be.


Congratulation, Corbyn you fat dyke. Everyone really wished for a second referendum.




Brits are faggy as fuck, I really don't feel bad about this fucking the pommy cunts over



the only thing i want in life is to be an australian or new zealander tbh

lie awake at night with paranoid daydreams of doing all the paperwork and losing my accent only to still be rejected for the one thing i can't manipulate: birthplace. nightmares of naturalisation as a door that closed to those born after say the 80s unless they moved over as children.

nightmare scenario.


Well Assange has been arrested, apparently the Ecuadorean embassy invited the MET in.



File: 127d4e0635af70b⋯.jpeg (110 KB, 640x640, 1:1, 3A01F70A-6306-4076-947D-B….jpeg)


Why use your enemies language?



Mate if you're young and you have some sort of degree the Aussies will let you in faster than you can say "skin cancer at 35".



Here's betting he doesn't get extradited.



Foreign Sec has confirmed this is on behalf of the fucking yanks.





So is the People's Vote finally kill, thanks to the briefness of this extension? Or would we be able to get yet another extension if it was to give time for a referendum?



Nah, this extension gives just enough time for a second referendum. But the movement itself is kill tbh.



If you truly were a communist first you'd be able to show solidarity with people you dislike or hate because that is how you make gains politically. I personally don't give a shit if you are a racist, sexist or whatever but if you bring that shit out into the open and allow it to colour your communist praxis then me and many others are damn sure going to resist you. The fact that you're looking to ingratiate yourself into what is essentially a subculture so that you don't have to deal with this makes me doubt your commitment. You can personally hold reactionary social views whilst also working on an anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-homophobia etc platform, if you truly are a pragmatist and fully dedicated to achieving communism.


I think the EU has made a mistake here tbh. This extension is so short that we don't have the time or breathing space to do any of the things that might resolve the problem. We probably won't even be able to get rid of May.



What are you talking about it's like 6 months. We can do an election in 6 weeks.



to fuck an american woman, just offer her some fast food.


>EU making a mistake

my shock. imagine it.



That won't happen without something changing first. The Tories would have to dispose of May for one thing.


File: 3689683123b46fe⋯.png (216.51 KB, 1416x786, 236:131, ClipboardImage.png)


You're right but still.

Apparently May is gonna try and pass the WA with labour support next time, will be interesting to see how that goes.

Also pic related, 1% for the CUKs.


File: 3bf7ae75b6304a6⋯.png (154.28 KB, 1080x1194, 180:199, sketch-1554997116418.png)


Putting these numbers into electoral calculus I got labour having around 305 seats and the Tories with only 268 seats. Yeah with these polling figures I don't see a general election anytime soon, it'd be suicidal for the Tories.



Honestly we're gonna see a Lab-SNP gov aren't we? I just hope they don't try to block renationalisation.



I suspect the SNP would try to sabotage Labour without appearing to do so. A competent UK government with majority support in Scotland would be very bad for their main goal of independence.


File: b4ec24198860d1a⋯.gif (2.23 MB, 320x384, 5:6, 1541607472927.gif)



>when the party for the 1% gets 1%




I dunno, it's a convenient excuse for not holding an indyref "Oh well we tried but we couldn't get one from Labour", also Westminster giving Holyrood more funding would help the SNP keep power so it may work out.



>convenient excuse for not holding an indyref

Quite the opposite. Its supporters would say 'you could have demanded anything from Corbyn as a condition of putting him in Number 10, and you didn't ask for that!?'. Just like the Lib Dems were crucified for getting so little from the Tories.



I mean the SNP don't want one rn, and putting the blame on Labour will be enough for the activist base.


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File: a0ad765a92dc012⋯.png (13.57 KB, 339x264, 113:88, 222.png)


All these new polls are pretty wacky.



>Britain Elects




Not racist just don't like them. The fact is the capitalist class are the ones pushing a failed multiculturalism agenda in order to continue to import cheap labour. I live in Burnley and work in Blackburn so if you would like to see what mass immigration has brought to my doorstep then come up and i'll show you around. Its hurt families, it's hurt workers and broken sections of the community. I don't necessarily blame the immigrants but the government and those who actually rule over us from behind the scenes have inflicted this and continue to encourage it. As for Jews they are overrepresented in banking, media and the education system all of which are hostile to myself, my family and my community. Again I don't necessarily hate every individual jew but failing to recognise their collective role in our society is detrimental to us as individuals and to any chance of organising collective political movements. I also loathe Judaism as a religion and its abhorrent practices such as male genital mutilation and kosher. Same applies with Islam and FGM and halal. For the record i'm not particularly a fan of Catholicism, Jehovas Witnesses, Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists either. As far as homos/trannies/paedos my view on them is that they are mentally ill. I don't hate or particularly fear them but i'd support reopening lunatic asylums to remove the harm the dangerous minority cause themselves and to society. You have also forgotten to accuse me of the other buzzwords capitalists use to control working class people. You should probably accuse me of being a misogynist because I consider abortion murder. And sexist because I recognise gender roles. And a bigot because I voted to leave the EU. Basically I chose to say old fashioned views because its a lot quicker and easier than providing an extensive description of my opinions that most people in the thread wouldn't be interested in reading.




>Hey it's raining outside!

>Fuck off with your fucking media buzzwords like "rain"! It's called "water falling from the sky"!

you chose "old fashioned views" because it sounds nicer than "I'm a bigot"



Rain isn't a buzzword. I'm tolerant to people holding different opinions I just don't like them. Don't care about being called bigot.



the "buzzwords" you mentioned aren't buzzwords either, just like "rain" isn't.


File: 8c9c539381e5215⋯.png (538.88 KB, 1080x608, 135:76, ClipboardImage.png)



T. Ash Sarkar




I wouldn't exactly call it a mistake, I think that despite everything, the EU still wants the UK to remain, mostly out of self-interest of course,





>no I'm not a racist that's just a sjw buzzword haha I just hate pakis



>the EU still wants the UK to remain

That would have been best served by a longer extension (which is what Tusk was arguing).The 6-month extension was a fudged compromise between that point of view on one hand and the 'just get it over with' school, represented by Macron, on the other.



>Tfw it took 3 years to finally break the EU.



the problem isn't really getting in. plenty of brits get into australia, like you say.

my problem is i don't want to be a brit in australia. i want to be an australian, to not be british any more. it's much harder to find out how possible that is because it's probably not the simple legal question it is on paper. (of getting one citizenship and renouncing another.)


Right lads, bit of fun. Ctrl-f the first half of your postcode and tally up the hits. Winner gets a curly wurly and half a bag of stale wotsits


13 for me.


File: e02ef88f94b09b2⋯.png (51.64 KB, 1670x132, 835:66, export (1).png)



6, one of them two streets across from where i used to live a few years ago and and 3 of the others in the posh part of town.



I got 9, did anyone else notice the American?



Fuck me.


Dozens of USA addresses on there somehow. Dunno if they're all expats or what.



I only got the two. Some entertaining stuff on there though just scrolling though. Especially like the hobbies.

>Hobbies: criminal justice system, bowls



>Someone from my village is/was is a member





This explains why you chose not to reply to my post then lad, because you know you're not capable of doing what is required of a Communist because of your spooks. I assume you don't believe in bodily autonomy either? Do you think that one should be allowed to hold beliefs without any sound reasoning for them, and that any punitive measures against them would be unjust? Your line of reasoning leads to a pomo relativist caricature unfortunately, so I'd be interested in you clarifying things.



Your reply about communism was to someone else. This >>2860942 isn't me and thats why I felt no need to reply to this >>2861052, so put aside your presumptions. Another reason I didn't get involved with your comment is because i've never proclaimed to be a communist. I'll clarify out of respect to your engagement but first let me point out that I came here hat in hand looking for advice about left wing positions on economics that incorporate right wing social views. Not asking for an in-depth explanation just a pointer of where I should begin which thankfully other anons obliged. I'm not here to spread bigotry or whatever you think either. My desire to research left wing economics is genuine but I don't want to waste time on something that ties me into pretending to be someone i'm not for the sake of ideology. Basically i'm a nationalist who has accepted that there is no meaningful future in capitalism. I'm not disingenuous enough to spread anti-racism and the rest. People would see through it anyway, my family, friends, coworkers and the lads at the pubs know what i'm about the same as I know them. Me telling a delivery driver not be racist when were unloading heavy goods off his lorry isn't going to create the conditions for a revolution. Frankly i'm not even sure what a communist praxis and a pomo relativist means, sounds like some theoretical crap that liberal arts studying uni kids living off debt and their dads credit card would discuss.

If by bodily autonomy you are asking my views on subjects such as abortion i've already stated in this thread that I consider it murder and am strictly against it. I'm also repulsed by tattoos, piercings and hair dye. I'm not saying those things should be illegal, most of my acquaintances would end up in prison then. Well the ones who aren't already locked up… However I am personally repulsed by body modification nonetheless. I'm also strictly against drugs, i've got a history of use that I regret and I take personal responsibility for but I don't tolerate it in my household and would prefer drug use removed from my community. I support free and widely available rehabilitation but do think punitive measures are needed for some. People who are overweight I have some sympathy and pity for as todays food quality is poor and usually a fatty has no time to properly diet and exercise and no money to eat well. Most lads I work with stuff themselves with junk food and coffee just to get through our shift. Even a lot of the lads who aren't fat are malnourished. It's sad to see honest men degraded and bound for an early grave.

Finally I suppose I don't think people should need reasoning sound or otherwise in order to hold beliefs. I think it's valid to believe in god for example. I believe in god because I see a higher power at play when my daughter laughs or in the beauty of the rose bushes at my nans house. And not just on the big questions in life but day to day stuff. I think it's perfectly reasonable to see people of different races as being different merely from observation without needing to put a moments thought into justifying that position or understanding the science behind genetics. A lot of things in life are self evident and the best decisions i've made and the people around me make are on instinct.



Yeah I havent had a chance to exhaustively look at the list but just flicking through this morning before work I saw a name I recognise. Decent man honestly, he was one of my nans neighbours in her old house and when she was diagnosed with parkinsons he started putting her bins out for her. Where I live was a BNP stronghold at the time of that leak, if I remember rightly they controlled the council so i'm not surprised there is that many. Guess I win the curly wurly and half a bag of stale wotsits.



I haven't presumed any more than you lad, it was reasonable to think you were the same poster, and if you didn't realise it was intended to be for you then my bad, should have made it clearer. I did assume that you were already committed to left-wing economics, and I know who you are now, I saw the thread you posted, so glad we've cleared that up.

>I'm not here to spread bigotry or whatever you think either.

Point me to where I said this? I never said anything about you spreading bigotry lad, seems like you're making a weird assumption there, I'm saying that your personal social views can negatively influence your ability to make actual strategic + tactical political moves. Reality is that when you're trying to organize a large number of people, they have differing views on things, questions arise with regards to compromise, but also solidarity. It is perfectly possible (although difficult, we all have our spooks after all) to be a racist personally and still show solidarity with another group through a shared struggle. In your case, since you're interested in left-economics, I'm sure you'll understand this as you do more research.

>I'm not disingenuous enough to spread anti-racism and the rest. People would see through it anyway, my family, friends, coworkers and the lads at the pubs know what i'm about the same as I know them. Me telling a delivery driver not be racist when were unloading heavy goods off his lorry isn't going to create the conditions for a revolution.

Again mate, misunderstanding me, you might want to selectively make your ideology known for tactical reasons but it's perfectly possible for people to know what you're about and then still choose to organize with you anyway as long as you both lay down ground rules and have shared goals. There's no need to be disingenuous, there's simply a need to understand various aspects of the social contract + civic life. If you don't do this, then your only logical line of holding certain beliefs personally bleeds over into public life and ends up leading to subjectivist relative nonsense and then conflict over mandates that arise from that. There needs to be clear distinctions on these things so that we know where we stand, when it comes to the actual practical things we're doing in the real world. I would prefer to know that you were a racist so it's all out in the open, because you'd be honest and we could move beyond that and figure out where we can cooperate. I couldn't give a shit about liberal outrage tbh, ultimately you can't police people's thoughts or beliefs but you can at least make sure they commit to a set of ethics, at least in civil society.

>sounds like some theoretical crap that liberal arts studying uni kids living off debt and their dads credit card would discuss.

Mate, you've come here to learn about economics, you're better than spouting almost verbatum quotes from people who think being working class is an identity, rather than an economic relationship at the root. I've only got some GCSEs because I'm guessing like you and a lot of people you know, you weren't afforded the opportunity to do any better, but I've put the time and effort in to learn stuff. Praxis is just the technical term for actual practical real world activity, and the pomo thing was just a bit of a meme, most of us round here hate poncy detached middle class kids, we just bother to learn the reasons why.

The rest of the stuff I was asking were genuine questions, I'll reply in detail when I get a bit more time later, I just wanted to understand more of your perspective and beliefs.


Are Tories going the way of the dodo in your opinion? There's always going to be conservative/reactionary politics but could the tories start splitting like trots or something?



The talk of a Tory split is just MSM gossip. Every time a party is in trouble you hear that they're going to split, they may never win an election again, they're going to be replaced by a third party. This is especially ridiculous in the case of the Tories who are famously resilient as a party. The wing of the party that is currently out of power will prefer to bide its time until it returns to power, like the Labour left did for over 30 years.



I don't know man, there hasn't been a divisive an issue as Brexit unironically since the Corn Laws, I mean Hammond and Rees Mogg have virtually nothing in common beyond the Conservative next to their name.

It depends on what happens though, the remain wing of the party are big enough cucks that unless CUK somehow takes off they'll find some way to remain in the party, no matter what principles they have to sacrifice. The Brexiteers are a different matter. I could see a lot of them genuinely jumping ship for say the Brexit Party if May keeps on fucking them and they fail to get a real Brexiteer as PM next time.


In Blair’s Castle Grey Skull, it is always 1997. Blair is like some inverted Miss Havisham, frozen not at the moment of his defeat and failure, but just before his moment of greatest success. Be cautious, don’t do anything to jeopardise the project. Blairism was this particular form of false promise, this deferral — if we are careful now, tomorrow we can do more… But tomorrow never arrives, the aim is always to be in government, the price is always the lack of any real power to change the inherited parameters of the possible. This is the formula: government without power, an increasingly unpopular populism.The illusion of Blairism is that it was an overcoming of the defeats of the 1980s rather than their final consequence. It was a post-traumatic normalisation of catastrophe, not any sort of new dawn. Its legacy is organisational as much as ideological: a Labour Party that napalmed its grassroots (contempt for, and fear of the working class being a signature element of Blair’s rendition of populism) and which now beams down policy and PR from some rarefied Thick Of It Oxford PPE helicarrier circling miles above earth. The project remains getting into government, but without Blair’s showman-messiah charisma to cover over the vacuum beneath this aspiration. Miliband’s awkwardness stems as much from this lack of any vision as from any personal quirks. There is nothing animating the transparently choreographed moves: tack to the right on immigration, a little to the left on taxation, etc. The ambition — to be the slightly lesser evil — is painfully clear to all, and can inspire no one.



>Hammond and Rees Mogg have virtually nothing in common

Apart from neoliberalism and austerity, i.e. the main planks of the Tory platform.

>they fail to get a real Brexiteer as PM next time.

They almost certainly will manage that though. They were very unlucky in 2016 because Gove and Johnson fucked each other up and then Leadsom allowed herself to be bought off with a Cabinet job (which is probably what she wanted from the start). It will go to the membership next time and they will elect the Brexiter candidate.


File: 89b9acee13d428e⋯.png (259.29 KB, 600x673, 600:673, gott_strafe_england_1.png)

File: 5c939af8fc53d20⋯.jpg (7.14 KB, 136x176, 17:22, Gott_strafe_England_-_Proj….jpg)

File: a389a9e7e58e9ec⋯.jpg (22.08 KB, 237x264, 79:88, gottstrafe.jpg)


No, your suffering has just begone. More blood for the blood god. Gott strafe england.


File: ed55993e2bc3f35⋯.png (414.16 KB, 1190x599, 1190:599, ClipboardImage.png)


Projected Seats:

LAB: 24 (+4)

BXP: 12 (+12)

CON: 12 (-7)

UKIP: 12 (-12)

GRN: 4 (+1)

LDM: 3 (+2)

NAT: 3 (=)

Ngl love to see the melts implode when Labour dick the EU elections.


AS for the death of the tory party, well aside from the fact the party is literally dying I think it's main threat is that it no longer is an "institutional party", aka one which is seen as a part of fundamental british government rather than just of british politics. This sounds weird, but remember we used to have a two-party system where it was Liberals and Tories (well also Irish nationalists but let's forget about them for a bit) at the top. Then WWI happened, the filthy working classes were given the vote and womyns were too, and then we have the 1920s: where there were three parties of government that , around eachother. Then the depression hits, a national government forms, the liberals split into three parties and they never recover until David Steel signs a pact with this weird new group called the SDP: and still they have never had a PM since DLG. This is what could happen to the tories rn ngl. Who replaces them is a tricky one though, it was obviously gonna be Labour in the 1920s, but now? Will it be right wing populists or mega liberals? Nobody knows.



So the Tories are going to be campaigning as part of the ECR (a non-separatist group) while their party policy is to leave the EU. Weird. Also pretty amusing that ChUKa are projected to win 0 (zero) seats.


> it was obviously gonna be Labour in the 1920s, but now?

And that is why the Liberal Party died but the Tories won't. Populism in this country is feeble and we saw in the 2017 election how easily its supporters were lured away by Labour's socdem revival on one hand and the Tories' 'crush the saboteurs' fascist posturing on the other. As for the mega-liberals, the appetite for that is tiny and the Lib Dems have been appealing to it without success for ages. The Tories will continue to be the party of low taxes, 'aspiration', law & order, and stability (without actually delivering on any of that in practice).



Why do Brexit and UKIP have so much voting percentage when UKIP and Brexit have so little in GE polling?



Electoral systems fam



Also many people would never vote UKIP/Brexit parties in a general election as they would rather have Torys/Labour in Government. But a lot of people are going to use the European elections (if we have them) to show dissatisfaction with how Brexit is going.


Who are you going to vote for in the EU elections (if you are going to vote at all)? Is No2EU standing again?


>Gott strafe England

>Actually punching Scotland




>Who are you going to vote for in the EU elections (if you are going to vote at all)? Is No2EU standing again?

Labour tbh, purely (outside a tribalist) because my MEP voted against Article 13. Also No2EU basically dissolved since almost all of the unions are pro-Corbyn.



<Gott strafe England

<Actually punching Scotland


Also let's the fucking Welsh get-off Scot-Free.


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You little shit


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Lol at the EU election poll putting Labour into downing street and the tories sub-200.


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New UK law: Up to 15 years jail for watching terrorist content

>It will be an offence to view terrorist material online just once – and could incur a prison sentence of up to 15 years – under new UK laws.

>The Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Bill was granted Royal Assent yesterday, updating a previous Act and bringing new powers to law enforcement to tackle terrorism.

>But a controversial inclusion was to update the offence of obtaining information "likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism" so that it now covers viewing or streaming content online.

>The rules as passed into law are also a tightening of proposals that had already been criticised by human rights groups and the independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, Max Hill.

>Originally, the proposal had been to make it an offence for someone to view material three or more times – but the three strikes idea has been dropped from the final Act.


>Viewing terrorist propaganda online in the UK could now land you in jail - under a new law that's just come into force. Government says the new measure is aimed at preventing terror attacks.


First they lock up the guy exposing the criminals who run our governments (and threaten to extradite him to a US supermax gulag for life), and now they've passed a law where you will get 15 years in jail for viewing anything online (whether accidental or intentional) the UK government arbitrarily deems to be "terrorist material."



what's "BRX"?


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Hey non brit here, so what’s the story with the coastal areas that like labour?

Also are the southern whales more unionist than the northerners?


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The Act also provides for jailing people for up to 10 years if they spend over a month in a 'designated area' abroad. It's times like this that you realise how close to tyranny we are at all times. Parliament can pass whatever horrific legislation.it wants without any oversight, thanks to our lack of a written constitution.


That map is not realistic. Pic related is the map of the last election. Also don't really know why coastal areas would be any less likely to vote Labour.

>Also are the southern whales more unionist than the northerners?

Yeah, western/northern Wales is more remote and less integrated culturally into the UK.


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How the fuck did this get through so easily. How did Corbyn fail to oppose it?



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From these new polls it looks like the Tories are finally paying the price for the absolute state of this government.



Maybe trying to avoid the whole "terrorist sympathiser" thing. I reckon for the average person "Corbyn opposes ban on terrorist propaganda" is enough to make them ree without reading the article.



Corbyn has a great record of fearlessly doing and saying things the media can use against him. I can't believe that he would allow such a gross infringement of civil rights just because he's afraid of what the Sun might say. This is the guy who stood up for Shamima Begum. And Diane Abbott, who I can see voted for the bill, is even more touchy about civil rights. She complained about the police knocking moped thieves from their bikes, for God's sake..



You're quite right tbh and i'm not defending him for this, just trying to understand why there was no resistance to it.



Yeah perhaps I was a bit presumptive and did misunderstand. I didn't mean to be rude. I think I understand your point about social contract and civic life. I suppose i've never considered organisation probably because i've never really been in a position to organise a large number of people. In the interest of clarity then yeah i'd have to say i'm racist. I have no problem with a Paki in Pakistan but I do discriminate against the Pakis on the Old Whalley road in Blackburn. I do consider them unwelcome intruders and despair when I visit family graves in Nelson where one side of the cemetery is segregated for Islamic burial. And it's not just muslims, jews and foreign races that I couldn't share the struggle and show solidarity toward. I'm never going to be willing to march for gays or feminist causes. As I said I think I understand your point about the need to basically see eye to eye when organising but I doubt I can overcome what you call spooks and therefore maybe a foray into the left is futile and unfeasible despite that i recognise the total failure of neoliberal/capitalist economics.



Presumably the Brexit party but i'm skeptical that the poll is accurate.


Honestly, how well would a Labour-SNP coalition work?

I’m worried the SNP might try to push a second independence referendum if Brexit goes through. Though maybe they could be appealed to with even greater devolution?

I really don’t want an independent Scotland.



There won't be a coalition, it will be confidence and supply. If the SNP demand an indyref will be difficult, because the leadership don't want one for a bit too. It's honestly impossible to see how it would work out.



Yeah, I’m honestly worried about a second Scottish ref in the next 20 years. They’re key to our identity and I don’t want to see them go.

Perhaps a labour government that ends austerity policies in Scotland and invests into Scottish manufacturing and industry will be enough to keep them in.



I dont think we need to worry about the SNP, they have kind of been fucked by Labour. When Labour went more left-wing and took their place as the "left wing option" in Scotland they had to make the choice about the future direction of the party, either move to the left or move to the right. Moving left would probably keep them in power in Scotland and keep most of their MPs (loosing a few to the Torys probably). However it isolate a lot of voters and screw their chances in any future indy-ref which for them is more important than MPs. So they have had to move to the right to keep indy-ref 2 alive. The only thing really keeping them in power right now is Brexit and Scottish Labour being shit.



I think Labour needs to go on a union offensive in Scotland. Basically the party up there has no real identity or aim atm, Murphey, Dugdale, and Leonard have all appeared to be damp squibs. Atm the best Scottish Labour lad is Paul Sweeney and he's down in Westminster. What is needed is a real offensive into the trade unionist constituency in Scotland and reintegrating Labour into the industrial working class: which Scotland still maintains to a far larger degree than the rest of the UK. There has already been some inroads made, with the party picking up 3/7 of the seats in Glasgow, but more could be done. There is a lot of potential in bringing in the trade union element of Scottish society, which sits at 30%, into a single party. That's what Labour needs to do north of the border, and ignore constitutional issues for now. Following that, with a party of the trade union class (which will mostly be the industrial working class and the middle middle class) can then make the case for a union, but starting at it with such a constitutional strength is not gonna work. Honestly if I was running Labour's indyref 2 campaign, I would just go with the slogan "There's power in a Union" and work through that. "The SNP and tories want to rule and divide us, only united under and as labour can we be strong" et al. That can undercut the SNP's support while building a solid bloc.


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No worries lad, I think we both jumped the gun a bit. Therein lies the contradiction though, you can be as left as you want with economics but ultimately you're gonna have to make compromises to achieve that that includes working with people you have mutual animosity towards, and if you're not willing to take a step back and accept the social contract then unforunately it leads to conflict with these groups. And if you're gonna end up having to do that and you know it, then it goes back to what you were saying about having to be disingenuous, just on the opposite side. You'd have to pretend to organize with people you hate because that's Politics, and then after the fact you'd betray them. Spooks is a bit of a meme term round here from an Egoist called Max Stirner, it basically means when you elevate an Idea to such a position that it takes precedence over your own actual interests in life. You can see how some beliefs that one might hold could actually cause you problems if you put them before yourself. For example, me personally, I'm not a fan of Abortion at all, I think it's pretty sad and traumatic for families to have to go through that, but I realise that under Capitalism many people don't have a choice because the alternative would be worse for them & the kid. I see Communism as providing the conditions for Abortion to basically not exist,

because not only would people have more education on the matter, and more alternatives, but they'd also be more economically secure and be able to raise a family on their own terms. Because of this, I see it as a necessary "evil" under capitalism, but even under this system it could be drastically reduced. Taking the logic of this problem to it's end though, you see how as long as the working class is being fucked by the ruling class, there is no end to this thing that people might consider a social ill. Of course, there are also philosophical & ethical dimensions to the abortion issue, but even putting those aside you can see how the structures of the system either cause or make these problems worse.

There are multiple other more complicated ideas about why Nationalism as it's understood by Traditionalists runs into problems with Left Economics but understanding those will depend on how far you're going to go with reading about Economics.

The thing I always try to tell Nationalists is that at the end of the day, ironically, Communism is the only thing that could even feasibly lead to you having your own little enclave relatively insulated from exposure to social beliefs you don't agree with, because Capitalism inherently creates most of the problems you have through Imperialism & Development causing Immigration, to your Culture & Traditions being destroyed because of Capitalism needing to turn everything into a Market, bulldozing away people's way of life and replacing it with this bland commodified dogshit. Ultimately all that culture is is how a community of people go about existing in a place in the world, and Capitalism can't allow that, it has to change what we do and how we think, destroying freedom in the pursuit of profit. Pic related from here is always something I think demonstrates it well.



I agree with this analysis, also doesn't help the SNP's hard remain stance is alienating either pro-Leave habitual SNP voters (which is why places like Moray or Aberdeenshire are turning tory) or Pro-Leave Indy voters (which are politically homeless rn, and as such are less likely to tribally vote SNP and perhaps vote for people like the tories or Labour out of policy concerns over constitutional stances). But I agree, none of this is helped by the fact that Scottish labour is shite atm.


Tbh since Cunt Danukla is gonna be a UKIP MEP candidate in Scotland, how long before Carl of Swindon runs in that seat?



Carl is running in the south west MEP region I think



Tbh I hate how people act like Scotland (and London) voted 100% for Remain. The 38% vote for Leave was not massively less than the 45% vote for independence.


>They’re key to our identity

Spooky. Scottish independence is good for the world because it strikes a blow against British imperialism. The armed forces would lose Faslane and would have issues retaining/recruiting its disproportionate number of Scottish personnel. The economic impact is hard to predict but the UK would lose a lot of its oil reserves.

Don't think it will happen for decades though.



Fuck me if he gets into the EU parliament. Here's hoping most of UKIp's votes go to Farage's Brexit Party (which I'm gonna call that from now on so we adopt the Aussie thing of having "X's Y Party").



>Tbh I hate how people act like Scotland (and London) voted 100% for Remain. The 38% vote for Leave was not massively less than the 45% vote for independence.

My grandpa is a Moray native and he worked out that the split between Remain and Leave was 163 votes up there. Funnily enough Moray, one of the SNP's oldest seats, was won by the tories in 2017. Coincidence? I think not. Should also add that Moray was pretty much nationally aligned in the indyref vote. Also one thing people forget is that indyref1 had a really fucking high turnout at 84%: The SNP are gonna have a hard time getting pro-indy voters to the polls while status quo voters are more likely to vote since the status quo is easier to defend (which is why Remain's defeat was all the more impressive).

As for "Scotland being independent would strike at British imperialism", Scotland would 100% just become an imperial money laundering operation like Ireland, or a NATO vassal state like the baltics: let's not bare any pretenses to that.


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>There's nothing "socialist" about UBI even,

this +100000

it would be porky's main assault on the european social democrat "welfare state" model, which all porkies hate with all of their heart since it was introduced in the late 1800s in germany.

the UBI concept was invented by some of the worst scumbags who ever lived, including milton friedman, that is neoliberal/fascist bankers, insurance providers and oligarch "investors". so aside from braindead liberals the worst of the worst capitalists push for it, although they don't do it openly, but fund stupid liberal UBI promoters in media and politics from behind via "philantropic" foundations and whatnot.

UBI is designed to substitute ALL social security measures, including pensions for the elderly, at once with nothing. meanwhile oligarchs will get rid of progressive, relative taxes and are to pay the same amount of taxes as low pay workers or none at all. what's more, the "markets" will simply increase prices/inflation over time, which will eradicate all short-term positive effects on the income of "middle-class" workers at the time during the time UBI's introduction. middle-class, low wage workers and the unemployed will have long-term siginficantly LESS income than before the introduction of UBI. in case of unemployment workers will be left with no benefits at all, because the UBI's main point is precisely to take away all social security responsibilities from the state to push workers into either buying private unemployment//pension insurances (if they can afford it) or force workers to enroll into shit pay jobs with the worst working conditions on offer just to stay alive.



Who mentioned UBI?



wrong thread and i can't delete the post. i'm sorry.



It's fine. On UBI, this was proposed a month or so ago but there was a plan to replace tax credits with the a £1 income tax rate and give rebates for it for all those earning under £125k. This would work far better IMO.



>Spooky. Scottish independence is good for the world because it strikes a blow against British imperialism.

Or, you know, we could elect a government that ends imperialist foreign policy without dividing the country

And you’re implying an independent Scotland wouldn’t instantly become a US/EU vassal.




Honestly, reading this it seems to me Labour should dedicate more resources to winning Scottish Industrial areas. Seats in Scotland would propel us to a far stronger majority next election, and give Trade Unions a far stronger mandate to party policy, further cementing Labour as a Socialist party.

The main backing of the SNP is overwhelmingly the young. Winning them over cripples the SNP’s vote.



Yeah I agree sottish independence would just turn Scotland into a tax haven with the SNP trying to win over bankers from London.



>The main backing of the SNP is overwhelmingly the young. Winning them over cripples the SNP’s vote.

Not quite, while the SNP are the party of A) the young "Econ Socdem SocLib" demographic (I remember being up in my mum's village during the summer and speaking to someone my age, she's an SNP member and 100% would be a Labour member if she lived in England), also a decent chunk of its demographic is B) industrial "left-behind" workers from Glasgow in particular C) catholics (both irish-descended and trad) D) rural residents from north of the belt (As my grandpa put it "The SNP used to be the only people who gave two shits about this area"), E) actually mobile young high income professionals; especially from places like Dundee, and F) left-behind people in fishing towns. It's quite a wide coalition but since the SNP is nominally a causal party (as opposed to sectional or broad-tent one), but it is starting to crack: Ds & Fs are moving towards the tories & Lib Dems, As are moving towards the Scottish Greens, and Bs are shifting back to Labour under Corbyn (the Glasgow wins were the best sign of this). But still, the only way I can see the SNP losing their first place is if the whole Alex Salmond thing exposes like institutional cover-ups of his alleged perversion: I think that would be too much to bare for a lot of the activist base and they would disperse into other pro-indy units (Scots Greens, SSP, perhaps a right-wing nat party).

But yeah, Labour specifically targeting the industrial working class: not just in the Western Belt but also in places like Aberdeen and Moray (who have a lot of agri-industry, oil works, and ofc, whisky). Do that and you have a membership base, from that you build a genuine working class politics. But it won't happen while SLab remains in its current rut.


There is no doubt the SNP wouldn't try to go full neolib-corporatist celtic tiger upon independence: especially if you read the Green Paper from 2014 which is basically "We use oil money to lower taxes and everything will be fine". Honestly promoting Oil in Scotland from a macro standpoint is a fucking awful idea considering much heavy, and especially light, industry remains: you're just gonna give yourself Dutch Disease.


the thing you have to realise about scotland is that there's no real scottish bourgeoisie. the scottish bourgeoisie integrate themselves into british civil society, not scottish civil society. the illusion that scotland is more left wing comes almost entirely from this situation, because once you remove the businessmen from the highest rungs, people with a much greater interest in government support (head teachers, churchmen, academia, etc.) take the lead.

the scottish parliament is basically their dream realised. all the power in the world to commission policy papers and to talk a good talk (well, so long as you don't actually listen.) and bugger all real economic power to redistribute things, alter the balance of social power, stimulate industry, or basically do anything except make that class feel good. (beyond the token measures already adopted. in other words, the scottish parliament is already doing 105% of what it can do.) this kind of class analysis is sorely missing from any consideration of the scottish condition, which would much rather travel down drier, somehow even more tiring lines. (brian souter! blairites! imperialism! second vote RISE!) mostly as people try to push a cause, rather than to disinterested analyse. (something that will probably result in covering the entirety of scotland in the thick black tar of contempt.)

p.s. scottish labour has absolutely no plans on how to salvage itself. your plan could be for jeremy corbyn to walk across the river clyde while reading scripture and it would at least be a plan, putting you above scottish labour at current. their complete lack of strategic planning horrifies me. someone, anyone, please try and sort that out.

tl;dr scotland is a tiring place. it will exhaust you.


>you're just gonna give yourself Dutch Disease.

i mean, both scotland and the UK already got a pretty nasty case of that in the 80s. it's pretty easy to avoid the worst of so long as you keep all the money offshore in an oil fund so it doesn't give you major balance of payments surpluses. (like norway)



This is good analysis, with one caveat that I want to add which is that there is a bourgeoisie that is pro-independence but they tend to be foreign: for example Americans in Dundee or a certain US president. The SNP tries and does pander to this group to a significant degree.



>i mean, both scotland and the UK already got a pretty nasty case of that in the 80s. it's pretty easy to avoid the worst of so long as you keep all the money offshore in an oil fund so it doesn't give you major balance of payments surpluses

Nah the risk is less about political economy and more about the macro economy: as investment shifts to the safe bet of resources over other industries. I mean the whole thing basically deindustrialised the Netherlands because of Groningen.


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Burger here why the fuck are the British and particularly British Jews so fucking retarded about "muh antisemitism" and how the fuck did Labour shifting left actually make it even easier to spin them as more antisemitic than the Right?

I mean they try to do this in the USA but most young Jews at least know how stupid it is and for the most part it hasn't worked. Is it literally that you faggot are too stupid to not conflate antizionism with antisemtimism?



it's a ploy to discredit Corbyn and co, but anyone with a brain not full of neoliberal ideology can see it for how fake it is



It dates back to the leadership of Ed Miliband (himself the son of a camp holocaust survivor), who criticised the Gaza war and the jewish press (by that I mean the press in the jewish community, not some lugenpresse bullshit) criticised him massively. Now Corbyn has links to figures in Hamas and Hezbollah; which doesn't help, but a lot of it is smearing shit. Not to say there aren't anti-semites, but it is made out to be a far bigger problem that it is.

But the thing you have to realise is that organised british jewry is immensely pro-zionist: partially because of Britain's history with zionism, partially because a lot of working class jews left for America or Israel after the war leaving behind the middle class zionist population, partially because the rest of british jewry aren't organised (we never had Bundists for example, and left-wing working class Jewish activism was born in the 1930s but died by the 1950s because of aforementioned reasons). As such, the zionist elements of british jewry get the right to speak for the whole of it, which is a big problem (which I think is now starting to be addressed). SO yeah, we don't have an organised bundist/left-wing jewish movement to push-back when the jewish press brand someone as anti-semitic for not liking Israel or criticising links with AIPAC: and it's a bit shite.

Also one thing to mention is a significant part of jewish jewry weren't raised jewish, because they are Kindertransport. These kids were mostly sent to the countryside where people didn't even know what a jew was and they were brought-up Christian Englishmen who found-out in their late childhood their heritage. Now while this isn't talked about a lot, a lot of the jewish community doesn't consider these people to be "Proper jews" and so when they speak about stuff they get branded as "the wrong sort of jew".


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I should add that the left-wing of british jewry was explicitly zionist: the modern Jewish Labour Movement was founded as Poale Zion and from its inception was a zionist organisation. As I said, the only element of the british jewry that was involved in politics (since obs the Heredi aren't involved even though they aren;t insignificant in the british jewish population) has been zionist.

Another point should be that support or criticism has now actually basically become a political stance in british politics, especially since the CUKs will make it one at the next election. The most interesting part is that the liberal democrats are far more likely to fall on the anti-zionist side, partially because their foreign policy is driven by liberal pacifism, partially because one of their most prominent parliamentary figures is a Palestinian BDS activist (and she may soon be leader).



I would unironically watch some norman finklestein interviews, particularly the one where he btfos novara about the whole anti-semetism thing.


Idr exactly when the skype interview with him starts but it's partway through and he btfos the intersectionalist pussy-footing around the issue.


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They're fucking desperate.



I mean, that's still avoidable but the long post leaves out that Norway's oil supply was nationalised so only state investment could really move. It's harder for the SNP just clipping 10% for an oil fund.


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The salt is real.



Buckingham will be inaccurate, labour and the liberals dont contest bercows seat so its not actually on the verge of flipping to ukip.



I mean that is basically a meme map anyways because no-one will vote in a general like they would in an EU election, but still.


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>That discord screencap




CUK being beaten by everyone but the fucking sheep is just embarrassing.



Honestly these people are gonna be doomed by themselves at this point.


Honestly I was dreading the EU elections but to have them and see the CUKs get rekt is more than enough for me.



>25% Leave

>46% Centrist/split

>27% Remain

Where is the other 2%?



Prods and Republicans.



>Fully Automated Luxury Communism

>libertarian communism

These people will be purged after the revolution right?



I wonder if they'll start getting less sniffy about a merger with the Lib Dems if they get trounced badly enough. Their current strategy is utterly retarded.



Them cucking-out the lib dems would be so hilarious. The best part is that there are rumours that Nick Boles (remainer tory) might join the Lib Dems instead of them: which would be a fucking laugh.



Wrong link?



What's the problem faggot?




They make the left out to be comical utopians maybe?




They probably made some delusional assumption that they'd replay the SDP, rocket to popularity, and dictate a merger with the Lib Dems that would give them all major positions in the new party (presumably Chuka would be leader I bet)

At this point it's just stubbornly not wanting to admit they got cucked by Labour veering more Remain which kept the other members in line



I agree, also they have really buggered-up their launch: you can't even become a member yet and they've launched three times now.



Did you watch the video?

>If automation takes up all the jobs than we would have to fall into fully automated luxury communism

And at this rate of your revolution, this will be the communism we'll get.



>At this point it's just stubbornly not wanting to admit they got cucked by Labour veering more Remain which kept the other members in line

Not even that, the CUKs haven't even been able to get Margaret Hodge on-side: it's a sign they have failed out of sheer incompetence. You know the launch was originally meant to be 12 people? But in the days leading up to it they fudged so many things that a load backed-out.

And now there is a real chance that the whole project will become "Pro-Euro Conservatives 2.0" as more and more europhile tories join the enterprise (like their two MEPs).


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>Pro-Euro Conservatives

tfw you focus group the single least popular political position in britain circa 1999



It's a bit of path dependency tbh: as pro-EU tories leave the party and join the CUKs, the CUKs will come to resemble the beliefs of Pro-EU tories. Since it appears that signs of Labour members leaving has stopped, this will happen more and more.

Also is it me or does the bloke on the left look like a cross between Nick Clegg and 1990s Colin Firth?



Tories gonna try to implement this porn age verification thing on the 15th of July this year. VPN companies must be rubbing their hands right about now.

I'm still not sure that the Government actually understands the internet yet.




These (mainly) middle class Londoner "socialist" might not be great but they are useful. They make socialism and socialist ideas easy for young people to digest and have a pretty big audience. Not only that but they will be important if labour ever wants to shape up the media class within the BBC/ITV/Sky ect they can fill that gap pretty well. What is important that these people never get anywhere actual power or influence.



>I'm still not sure that the Government actually understands the internet yet

Of course they do, they're just pandering to Daily Mail readers who don't.



Why is polling in the UK so awful? It seems like the Brexit Party is at 27% voting intentions now.




That poll assumes half of UKIPs voters go to the Brexit party and I'm not sure that will actually happen

I'll believe it if the other two polling companies show a Brexit Party surge



The parent company for Pornhub/redtube/etc owns majority stake in the company behind the verification system; this is just them colluding with Tories to centralize that market. They will license out this verification system not only to irl vendors but basically all other porn producers, effectively giving them a platform monopoly. This also likely has a few auxillary benefits for the state given what we're dealing with here, even if it's just something as miniscule as making more people pay for passports lmao. Pretty sure the more likely outcome is access to data which will then be sold to third parties and kept in databases for monitoring purposes.



But Katie from Pornhub on reddit says that it hurts Pornhub! You wouldn't say she's lying wouldn't you?



That's only for the EU elections mind.




X to doubt


File: 087e71b6f28bf12⋯.png (1.57 MB, 768x1024, 3:4, ClipboardImage.png)

Fucking Mansfield Chad…



this too, it honestly amazes me that here in the US they're rightfully considered a literal who poller while UK news orgs take them as gospel.



Tbf, most people think yougov is a shit poller in the Uk but yeah.



There for EU elections not for general elections. At the moment in a general election Labour is doing pretty well getting 34 to 40% compared to Torys 28 to 35%. However polls kind of mean fuck all outside of election cycles. Then again there are local elections coming up in most of England so it will be interesting to see who gets effected the most by Brexit party.




It was taken seriously enough by r/ukpolitics



The Italian pushing libertarian communism is a fool and it's hardly a surprise that fascists are ascendant once again when he is their opposition. The problem is that there will never be a revolution with people like him at the helm. Should it happen despite him then there is no reason for him to have a role afterwards. People like that will only be detrimental and deserve to be purged.


The worrying thing is that the likes of Ash Sakar and Owen Jones are already near actual power and already have influence. Both are all over the BBC, Sky news, etc and they socialise with MPs. The yoofs who follow them are themselves just middle class urban 'socialists', the type who will never truly understand what it means to struggle and inevitably abandon the cause in exchange for taking their place in the neoliberal status quo. That harmful propaganda about luxury automated communism is damaging, delusional and utterly absurd and isn't winning over anyone. It's a laughing stock and certainly not creating a generation of dedicated revolutionaries. If I were more conspiratorial i'd suggest that both aforementioned media personalities are neoliberal plants attempting to discredit socialism. Unfortunately I expect thats not the case and that they believe themselves to be genuine. I reckon when Ash has her nails done each week she tells the poor lass paid a pittance to do it how she will soon be out of a job, but thats ok because automation will make everyones lives as vapid and meaningless as her own.

Fuck it when the revolution comes i'm doing a Pol Pot on them wether you lads agree or not. Either them and their ilk will work on the land or they will fertilise the soil.



I don't think the Brexit party are running in local election. They definitely don't have candidates where I live.




Nah they arent, they were founded last week.



They socialise with MPs but don't hold any power internally within the Labour party. I see them more as useful idiots, at the end of the day they are pumping out anti-austerity/labour party propaganda which is being picked up by left-wing but politically inactive young people.



It's offical, washing-Machines-live longer-with-Carlgon is second on UKIP's list in the South West.



Man Wings is getting salty over the Dugdale case…


File: 6d18ef235a6422a⋯.png (372.76 KB, 1186x590, 593:295, ClipboardImage.png)



>the type who will never truly understand what it means to struggle and inevitably abandon the cause in exchange for taking their place in the neoliberal status quo.

I never understood this Orwell-tier resentment. Surely the personality and conviction of the person has a role to play as well?



Perhaps you just didn't understand Orwell. Thats ok a lot of people find him complicated.



I saw a book in Waterstones a few weeks ago that was trying to make some tenuous fucking link between the Labour Party and the Third Reich


what the fuck even is zoe williams

i only recognised her by name for the "stop calling blair a war criminal he was good / stop praising castro he was a dictator" contrast image, but i've seen a few not-terrible articles by her as well. (None i can remember off the top of my head, except one that's actually merely quoting someone else saying some great stuff, but still.)


>Academic Agent tilting towards absolute monarchy


In a move that surprised no one



Jewish feminist author who went to Oxford to study modern history and writes articles for the Guardian. She supported Corbyn for leadership in 2015.



Labour: 33(+1)

Tories: 23(-9)

Brexit Party: 14(+14)

Tories on suicide watch


File: 8f8884f69602da2⋯.png (87.7 KB, 795x575, 159:115, D4ap3wbXsAAJ0lq.png)

I guess you could say they've Cuked themselves out of this election.



Tbh look at what Andrew Lilico has been puttting out atm: hes switching between absolute monarchy and republicanism as long as we get brexit.



>washing-Machines-live longer-with-Carlgon

Nah, last time I tried that, my washing machine broke after it started calling itself "classical liberal"



>Fuck it when the revolution comes i'm doing a Pol Pot on them wether you lads agree or not. Either them and their ilk will work on the land or they will fertilise the soil.

I see the fully automated luxury communism meme winning more minds than stale 19th century texts.

I wonder if you actually care about improving society or just hate anyone with a southern accent.


Local elections voting intention, according to @OpiniumResearch

(Changes +/- compared to 2015)

Con 28% (-9%)

Lab 36% (+6%)

LD 10% (+2%)

UKIP 9% (-4%)

Greens 6%

Ind 8%

Other 3%

*Click* Noice.


File: ee31bac1566541d⋯.png (35.15 KB, 559x566, 559:566, Oh what a night.png)


File: f9db168e75b00cd⋯.png (431.27 KB, 576x697, 576:697, ClipboardImage.png)

He's not wrong…


File: 35e441b065dde12⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 145.91 KB, 2000x1000, 2:1, Eh Canada.jpg)


Not a brit, I hail from People's Republic of Canuckistan, but curious to know why Labour'd want to 'solve Brexit'? Wasn't it proposed and implemented by a Conservative government, what's in it for them to practically/strategically do anything?



jesus christ, it's going to be a slaughter if that holds


I can't wait for the Torygraph and Spectator's writers to just completely ignore that euro election poll after breathlessly reporting yougov's

I wonder if the Tories will get desperate enough seeing this nuclear disaster tier numbers to finally oust May, she's going to be worse than Major for them otherwise and self preservation should be kicking in among mps



The tories can't oust May tho, that's the best part. Tho I expect some tory MPs to defect to FBP after the EU elections because "fuck-it why not?". People like Mark Francois for example.



Post yfw United Kingdom Federation


Looks like carlgon is off to a great start


>But when YouTuber Benjamin was asked to explain why he was running as an MEP for Ukip he told journalist: ‘I’m not answering your questions. I’m not apologising for anything you dirty, dirty smear merchants.’

>He added: ‘Get bent,’ and told the room full of journalists: ‘I’m just here to mock the legacy media.’



The EU should have kicked you out in March.


Burger here. So let me get this straight Nigel Farage started another party for Brexit that is running against his old one and that new party now is the frontrunner for the European elections while Ukip has about 6% of the vote. Why?



Because Brexiteers are dense twats.


File: b31e07245128247⋯.png (473.73 KB, 902x625, 902:625, hajj.png)


farage tried to make it in the USA by pandering to trump and some other shit and seemingly failed abysmally at that so he needs a new job

in the absence of farage, UKIP descended into utter farce pretty quickly. their one hope was paul nuttall winning a seat in a byelection but he royally fucked his chance by getting caught being the world's most chronic liar and didn't help himself by trying to look more working class by growing a creepy beard. after him, i remember a guy named 'hookem' punching somebody out in the eu parliament (lol) and then none of their subsequent leaders. at some point they pivoted towards internet alt-right type weirdos and tommy robinson to the point where even their scottish MEP (notable for telling a journalist he calls a scottish govt minister after abu hamza and for having extreme technical troubles during an attempted live stream of his response to some election debate) resigned over islamophobia in the party. so now they're dragging up the absolute dregs of the earth like sargon to be candidates.

so farage can't join that monetarism tier disaster but he's also nothing but politics and his old party is a mess so he made a new party with a stupid name (i'll eat a crayon if it wasn't suggested by a primary school kid. "what does it support" "brexit" "how about 'the brexit party'")



Also didn't help that they had a leader literally sign her leadership documents under legal duress and that Paul Nuttall came-off as a right weirdo on the debate stage in 2017.


File: 33f5773c9fb66d8⋯.jpg (78.81 KB, 750x766, 375:383, D4YfT2jXkAA02h8.jpg)

lol remember when he was a cat


File: 12dd53aec5bdd8a⋯.jpg (440.06 KB, 1080x1538, 540:769, Screenshot_20190418-150014….jpg)


Must feel bad for carlgon to be betrayed by daddy Nigel


Blissful thought, if you dwell on it:

The aim of The Independent Group is not to maintain the status quo. That is no longer possible. Their aim is to restore the last 'status quo' that we knew. That status quo is gone, dead, never to be restored. Even if we were to decide to remain in the EU, we've passed the point of no return. Real change is easier than putting humpty dumpy together again.

It follows on from this that we're in another moment of historical flux. You can be pessemistic about that if you want (we could go in a very bad direction), but the reopening of the possibility for change is fundamentally optimistic. If we can change now, we can change again and if progressive forces seem to be on the back-foot now then it's worth looking back at the delusional froth of the right-wing in 70s Britain. From "Labour has won 4 of the 5 previous elections" to 18 years of Tory rule in less time than we've learned it takes to leave the European Union…



Owen Jones wrote a fine book "the Establishment", but he is a bit of a melt these days and doesn't seem to realise he is part of the establishment as well. The way him and Novara turned their backs on Chris Williamson over "optics" was disgraceful.

If we really want to take a critical marxist perspective, both him and Sarkar are paid hefty sums of money to appear on tv. But what about the nurse or the Teacher who comments on Question Time?

There is a division of labour in british media whereby some people get paid and some don't for the same work.



Is Brexit Party only gonna run in the European elections? I can somewhat respect them if they do that, at least they are ideologically consistent


Ironic to see the exact same condescension that Orwell was whining about in the middle class socialists from you tbh



>I can somewhat respect them if they do that, at least they are ideologically consistent

It's just strategy. European Parliament elections are proportional while UK elections are FPTP, meaning small parties without a shot in the UK can gain a lot of influence (relatively) in the European Parliament. This was UKIP's strategy under Farage as well



>If we really want to take a critical marxist perspective, both him and Sarkar are paid hefty sums of money to appear on tv.

ah yes, the critical "marxist" perspective that any retarded right-winger spews whenever he smells anything vaguely left around him - "commies bitching about capitalism on their iphones"



Owen Jones is from the North. Sheffield.




>Is Brexit Party only gonna run in the European elections? I can somewhat respect them if they do that, at least they are ideologically consistent

Farage is a Thatcherite though, Galloway is a deluded sellout.



Tbh this, too much of the political establishment still thinks it is the 1990s. I face this problem with my father: he says Labour needs to win more swing seats. I ask him what a swing seat is, he says Nuneaton, I tell him Nuneaton voted leave, and he cannot compute that with wanting a second referendum. These people do not realise that what is "swing" or what the centre of this country is has radically shifted.



The fuck is he doing lmao



Yes, we should be thankful for the media wreckers who will throw anyone under the bus for their BBC slots winning over social media speds with 2016 reddit memes.

>stale 19th century texts.

Kill yourself liberal, go read the manga if you need something with pictures.


>what's in it for them to practically/strategically do anything?

Literally nothing and nor is there anything they can do. Centrists just can't contain their need to signal.


As opposed to you, the genius Marxist and defender of careerist melts with a red rose slapped on their twitter.


>Galloway is a deluded sellout.



Engaging in the free market of ideas, of course.




Nah tbh when a guy shills for a former investment banker and known Thatcherite totally isnt selljng out.



Ah, I see you're a member of the London Association of Real Proletarians



yes we've all seen the memes about "you live in this society". That doesn't mean hypocrisy doesn't exist.

Shows like Question Time are a microcosm of the British state system. People like Jones and Sarkar who go on them but don't criticise and advocate for genuine change to the format are the same as careerist politicians who became MPS and then did fuck all to try and change the state system



>Change UK rejects growing calls for electoral alliance with other anti-Brexit parties

The dolts are gonna snuff themselves out before the kindling is lit.



>Change UK said it had received over 3,700 applications from supporters who want to stand for it in the elections, including figures formerly of the Tories and Labour, plus leading personalities in the pro-EU movement.

They're gonna stand JK Rowling aren't they…



1. Chuka wants everyone to bend the knee to him like god-emperor macron

2. the other anti-brexit parties like lib dems, greens or snp are unironically to the left of the CUKs and cunts like Leslie will never compromise their economic interests


File: 5625ef8d8d47d25⋯.jpg (71.9 KB, 597x445, 597:445, 9971d5fe68a3294a7768e95389….jpg)


A condescending question deserves a condescending answer.

>Surely the personality and conviction of the person has a role to play as well?

The personality and conviction of a person is shaped by their parents, upbringing and peers. Factors such as class absolutely have an impact. Middle class urban children benefit from the status quo. They might flirt with socialism when they have university debts and whinge about not being able to afford a home while renting a flat in a trendy gentrified part of London. That flirtation ends when they get the well paid job in the city and buy a house in Surrey. Orwell saw the lack of dedication among the upper-middle class socialist circles he inhabited. I've observed it among the middle class children of Thatcher and its evidently even more pronounced among the children of Blair. They are neoliberal to the core and will abandon socialism as soon as life affords them the opportunity which is almost inevitable given the circumstances of their middle class upbringing. The likes of Owen Jones and Ash Sakar have no honest convictions and neither do their supporters. As for personality they are a soulless void. I'd rather do just about anything other than hang out with them having champagne bubble baths.



>A condescending question deserves a condescending answer.

That 'no u' deflection was pretty pathetic. I asked a honest question only to get a needlessly hostile answer from you.

You and like Orwell before have a lot of conjecture but no real concrete examples of such people. (IIRC someone brought up the Cambridge Five to disprove Orwell's cynicism). Hell even Jones and Sakar still support socialism (or at least pretend to) even after making it. To assume that their specific class upbringing has made inequivocally toxic and irredeemable is fatalist. Especially now when the middle class is disappearing and these people are unlikely to get out of their poverty.

This needless hostility and cynicism towards imperfect allies gets nobody anywhere and is peak wrecker mentality.



lmao its about time



Tbh a part of this is also Londoner arrogance: they expect the SNP to join them "because Europe" because they just see them as a liberal party in Scotland rather than as a separatist force.

But there's also the fact that the lib dems are a big org, they have over 100k members now and have secure representation in local and devolved government; along with an ally party in Norn. They aren't just gonna be annexed like the liberals of the 1980s.

Also also, the Green membership are basically hippies: they're not gonna take lightly to libcons like the CUKs.

On a totally different note, rewatching the BBC Robin Hood from the early 00s, and there's a bit where Robin Hood advocates basically against income taxes but taxing trade instead. Is this mutualism in action?



Historically, the greens have been a grassroots party where the leadership get 1 vote on policy decisions, the same as any other rank & file member.

Many of the traditionally green hippies have moved to Labour, and the Greens had a surge of ex libdem members last year. They've also suddenly received lots of big donations. These all suggest the Greens might not behave like they have in the past.

The biggest change to the Green Party (and the reason I left) was a change to its constitution made at the autumn conference last year, essentially moving all the power in the party to an unelected 'board' with a toothless elected 'oversight committee'.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Greens move towards being another awful centrist liberal party in the near future, maybe even an alliance with the CUKs. They already seem to be campaigning more for remain than ecosocialism.


>Republican group Saoradh say 'Republican Volunteer' was 'defending the people' after murder of journalist in Derry


Holy fucking shit. Fuck these cunts.



Have Labour itself adopted a more Green-style policies? Or even Lib Dems?



While people like Lucas and Sian Berry are at the top though, the Greens will continue to be a left-wing party. The thing with the shift of various European Green parties to the centre is that it is a result of conservative green movements (which the UK kinda lacks) moving into these parties, and/or the merging with existing agrarian parties (which the UK hasn't had since the 1920s). So the existing infrastructure for the Greens to turn into centrist-twerps isn't there, and the leadership; while agonisingly pro-European, still maintains a leftist outlook, for now.


Honestly the 2017 manifesto was kinda weak on environmental issues; but there are now there are movements towards forming a cohesive programme along the "Green New Deal" paradigm.



Personally I don't feel any sympathy for her death as a result of occupational hazard when her and the establishment she sought to represent couldn't give a damn about workers who die and are seriously injured every day in the UK as a result of their occupation. The Buzzfeed vulture escorted the police in a raid on a Republican estate where people don't recognise the authority of the PSNI and she got caught in the middle. She knowingly put herself in that situation and if it were someone else's corpse on the ground last night you can bet she would exploit it for propaganda purposes. This killing is a repercussion for her actions wether inadvertent or not and I don't care if that sounds harsh. Perhaps she was naive and unaware that the police would use her as a human shield but as a supposed journalist entering a riot in a war zone she should have known better. The reports out of Londonderry in recent years have made it clear that the Troubles never went away they simply went underground and have resurfaced in a series of violent and chaotic confrontations in recent months. I'm not a journalist, a republican or even Northern Irish so as I was aware of it then she damn well should have been. Honestly it won't surprise me to discover that the police intentionally left her out as a sitting duck in a doublecross of sorts for their own propaganda purposes. I see they have already branded the shooting a terrorist incident. If i'm correct we will no doubt have to wait a few decades before the truth of the matter is exposed, as a coverup will now be in full effect. Politically the most interesting thing about this incident is that Saoradh are effectively replacing the redundant Sinn Fein in the Republican struggle.



>She had it coming because she was actually keeping the PSNI accountable

What the actual fuck kind of brain do you have to have to think that makes any sense.



>The PSNI take silly girls from the press out for a ride along so she can hold them to account

Yeah right. Grow up kid. She played with fire and got burned. She did have it coming and good riddance to her.



Honestly this makes no sense, you would rather the police in this country went around without the press looking over their shoulder? That's exactly how Good Friday happened: no public accountability for the apperatues of the state. Supporting the fact this woman got shot for doing something that actually helps prevent police abuse is fucking dense.


I walked past the radio and heard them talking about the protests in london, the presenter was trying to throw shade on it as they usually do with protests. "People will miss their doctor's appointments!", "People are dying", yadda yadda.

Then they finally get on to proposed "solutions" and the very first thing the fucking presenter said was limiting the birth rate of certain people.

Like what the fuck man? Do they not even bother hiding their fascist shit anymore?



This was BBC radio for anyone interested. Normally I hear this nonsense on LBC.



That picture is the very same irony the alt-right uses to "cover" for the reality of their nature.


What would you do if in 10 years Britain becomes fascist and Sargon was appointed as leader of the party in charge?



Move to Russia, set-up a proper English pub. Live out my days in exile.



If you want to discuss a matter like the troubles then stop being naive and overly sensitive. She wasn't holding the police to account or preventing abuse, she was needlessly agitating where she didn't belong in order to profit and advance her career. If she were a proper journalist she would have kept her distance during the event, simply observing the actors involved and not getting in the middle of it. This morning she would have gone to talk to witnesses, gathering mobile phone evidence of what had occurred and exposing it to the public. If she were an honest journalist she would be alive today. Instead she went for a police ride along to the front lines in order to serve as a state mandated propagandist. She was a selfish bitch and if you want to shed a tear go right ahead but don't expect everyone to agree.

>That's exactly how Good Friday happened: no public accountability for the apperatues of the state.

If the event you were attempting to reference was Bloody Sunday then that was the best thing that happened for the Republicans in the 20th century even if they will never admit it. That is the true nature of war. As for the Good Friday agreement it was and remains an absolute farce. It's not worth the paper it was written on and the sooner its thrown into the rubbish bin of history, along with the rest of the Blair years, the better.



Honestly your entire argument is schizo: one minute she is an agent of the establishment, next she is bad at her job by closely following the police, the next she is agitating, and then she is selfishly advancing her career. You're just trying to justify a senseless, needless, and justification-less murder. But she was a prod so I guess it's alright.

You're not a socialist, you're a braindead nationalist. Your thinking is no better than when zionists justify an IDF sniper shooting a Journalist on the Gazan side.



She was paid to agitate on behalf of the state and she was bad at her job. She wasn't following the police, she was with the police. That is a significant difference. I've gathered your reading comprehension is subpar and you attempt to use insults in lieu of presenting an argument but you couldn't be more wrong about me or my motivations. I am an English socialist, a protestant and a unionist. I respect Irish nationalists as a worthy foe but I most certainly do not support their cause. Her death was technically an accident, collateral damage, however she got what she deserved regardless. There is nothing to justify because she chose to take the road that ended her life. If you want further replies on this subject you really need to become better versed in the history of the troubles and detach yourself from emotions about the dead cunt.

And for the record there is nothing about Israel that I support.



It's a single issue party you tribalistic grug.


>Owen Jones and Ash Sarkar are the REAL leftists

>Galloway, however, is not

>If you disagree with this incredibly London student union take, you are actually the Londoner

You dumb rose.


My problem with Jones is that he flip flops every day and Sarkar less so, but is still a weak hypocritical idpoller. She was outraged and caved to pressure over Williamson but is now getting butthurt over the exact same thing happening to Ilhan Omar and is justifying her hypocrisy by calling the attacks Islamophobic, racist, etc.

Chris Williamson did nothing wrong.


It's darkly comical how many people jump to depopulation and state birth control, it's codger support for national service all over again. There are numerous holistic things that can be done but people don't want to give up their burgers and combustion cars (two things I admittedly will miss).


>D I R E C T R U L E


File: ba2c85901b950fe⋯.jpg (39.31 KB, 640x480, 4:3, homer laugh.jpg)


>objected to the 'London' in 'London Association of Real Proletarians'

Forgive my slight, you're clearly not a mere member, you're definitely on committee.

who'd you vote for in 2015 then



>being this assblasted at leaving the EU

Oh rosey, no!

>who'd you vote for in 2015 then

2014 EU: UKIP

2015 GE: Green

2016 REF: Remain

2017 GE: Labour

Get on my level. Will be voting BXP soon :^)



what have you got against the house of lancaster you twat



>My problem with Jones is that he flip flops every day and Sarkar less so, but is still a weak hypocritical idpoller. She was outraged and caved to pressure over Williamson but is now getting butthurt over the exact same thing happening to Ilhan Omar and is justifying her hypocrisy by calling the attacks Islamophobic, racist, etc.

>Chris Williamson did nothing wrong.

Based and correct take. I'd go much further with Jones and say that he's a complete wrecker though, he hasn't really made any big shifts from his past actions and his careerism is eventually going to lead him to a point where he will attempt to betray people. As much as I think Ash is hopped up on Racial Consciousness "I'm an anti-racist before I'm a communist" and all that jazz, she at least has actual convictions and a broad history of organizing & political activism learned in part from her family



>It's a single issue party you tribalistic grug.

No, it's a single person party: that person being a former investment banker and known Thatcherite. This is "vote the SNP so we get Scottish Socialism" tier.


Also tbh the two best left commentators atm are Eddie Dempsey and Paul Embery.

Made by Trade Unionist Gang.



>This is "vote the SNP so we get Scottish Socialism" tier.

Fucking lol, what a terrible strawman. The remainers fully intend to use the EU elections as a second referendum and there is no downside to voting for Farage's party besides it upsetting your sensibilities because he's a cunt.



No it is the same, voting for a "single issue party" and putting something tangential to socialism above the actual socialist movement itself.


File: df010ad6d0c55d4⋯.png (2.39 MB, 1600x900, 16:9, ClipboardImage.png)


>No it is the same


lmao at tribalistic as an insult



>My problem with Jones is that he flip flops every day and Sarkar less so, but is still a weak hypocritical idpoller. She was outraged and caved to pressure over Williamson but is now getting butthurt over the exact same thing happening to Ilhan Omar and is justifying her hypocrisy by calling the attacks Islamophobic, racist, etc.

Then your grievances are with their methods not their convictions. I do agree that they are pretty shit about the Chris fiasco.


File: 5ac409555078f91⋯.png (633.83 KB, 674x897, 674:897, 5ac409555078f9130ee0f17891….png)


>>D I R E C T R U L E



Tbh this, "Tribalist" is a big brain centrist insult.

Also tbh Chris Williamson is more of a liability than an asset.




>picking apart language to justify remaining in the EU and throwing people under the bus

How many layers of ideological bankruptcy are you on, my guys?


vote conservative to deliver brexit and own the radlibs



>if you are slightly against or even critique me, you must be a Remoaner libtard!

As toxic and purity testing as the #FBPE crowd



lol, now who's the centrist?


File: 51547c5617b7f3e⋯.jpg (21.06 KB, 349x340, 349:340, SARGON.jpg)

Im going to vote UKIP for a laugh. Whats the worst that could happen?



toxicity and purity testing transcends political boundaries



>voting for the tommeh/carlgon neo-bnp party

just jump off a bridge for a laugh instead cunt



Found the American.


File: bb883923c608d7e⋯.jpg (225.76 KB, 1024x678, 512:339, gettyimages-518845115-1024….jpg)

vote SDP in the upcoming european elections or on results night you will find bill rodgers in your kitchen using your condiments to write his name on the floor


File: 1462f1d65c73b8a⋯.png (157.88 KB, 316x316, 1:1, ClipboardImage.png)

>Today, Saturday the 24th of September 2016, we a significant collective of Irish Republican activists, who for a number of years have acted autonomously, have after a number of years of debate, consultation and organisation today in Ard Fheis organised, constituted and launched a Revolutionary Irish Republican Party, the Party's name is Saoradh.

>Saoradh believes that Ireland should be governed by the Irish People with the wealth and wealth producing mechanisms in the ownership of the Irish People. This can not happen while British imperialism undemocratically retains control of Irish destinies and partitions our nation, this cannot happen while a neo-colonial elite in a subservient supposed indigenous administration sell’s the nation’s labour and natural resources to international capital.

>Saoradh does not believe that British imperialism or capitalist exploitation can be confronted in the structures they have created to consolidate their undemocratic control of the Irish nation. As such we believe any assembly claiming to speak for the Irish People without being elected by the united people of the Irish nation to be illegal. Saoradh will seek to organise and work with the Irish People rather than be consumed and usurped by the structures of Ireland’s enemy's,

>Standing on a long and proud revolutionary Irish Republican history of resistance, inspired by the actions and words of Tone of Connolly, of Mellows, of Costello and of Sands, upholding the founding documents of our forefathers – the 1916 proclamation, the declaration of independence and the democratic programme of the first Dáil, Saoradh hereby declares its commitment to the unfinished revolution, the liberation of Ireland and the social emancipation of the Irish People.

Are they /ourguys/?



Paul Embery is meh but has a lot of interesting stuff to say about Brexit and pointing out the issues within the Labour party were it comes to working class people. Eddie Dempsey is solid and could with time become Bob Crow tier



Depends on their policy toward the EU.



I think it's got to the stage where the Irish are like the French, they'll just carry on with any excuse, unified Ireland or not. Pretty based.


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File: 0cf8e00a6485ce8⋯.jpg (33.13 KB, 632x385, 632:385, 1555709954087.jpg)

lol big Di busted for having a cheeky mojito on the train



This is probably the most normal thing I've ever seen Diane do.



What else are you meant to do on the train other than drink?



Agreed. Usually she's not my cup of tea but drinking on the overground is relatable.


I suppose she could read a book but its a sunny good Friday so I don't think she will lose any votes over this. Maybe the muslims but the blacks and the hipsters won't care.






Hol' up, drinking is illegal on the tube?

The fuck?



Yeah, TFL only. You're good literally everywhere else in the country. Got told to knock it off by the BTP when I was down there and was like u wot m8?



National rail you're good but when it's more local stuff it can be a problem. You're usually fine though as long as you're not being "rowdy" or whatever.



Sun confirmed for the no fun police



This has made my feelings on her go from 5/10 to a solid 8/10, what a lad


And they've found Carlgon being an actual fucking racist.



+rep tbh.



God I wish that The Last Leg was still on at the moment XD



His weird obsession with Jess Phillips is finally coming to haunt him.

I mean fuck Jess Phillips, but fuck Carl more.



>I mean fuck Jess Phillips

Don't mind if I do, consensually of course, rape is bad after all



I mean nah, but whatever floats your boat.



>where he will attempt to betray people.

He's already doing this. Williamson, Walker, Wadsworth (no I don't know they all have names beginning with W) have all being thrown under the bus by him.


Saoradh marched through Dublin today, for basically no reason.

In other news there have been 4 ATM machines robbed in the last 24 hrs.

The Dissos are fucking going to launch a full-on campaign.



Good, tbh. The Tories need to learn a lesson. Hopefully Saoradh can keep it in their pants and not kill civilians.



They've already killed a civie, this is going to be bloody.

Also they managed to get Arlene Foster gain support in a Republican community so I hope they're happy with themselves.



Yeah I know, it's hard work living in a morally bankrupt world. I'm far away from being a moralist but it hurts to know there's no grounding in reality, just shooting, stabbing, and assassination. Have we lost the plot?



Tbh Republicans have had shit praxis for decades: "Oh yes let's start a bombing campaign just before WWII with German Help" "Oh yes let's start a bombing campaign during WWII just after the US has entered" "Oh yes let's launch a bombing campaign under no real pretext" "oh yes let's derail the support gained by the NICRC by bombing civies in mainland Britain.

But a lot of the random lone wolf stuff comes a great sense of lost control. When you feel you have no agency over your own life, lashing out in such a destructive manner makes more sense since it feels like you have more control.



It made sense at the start and got the gov around the table, but now it's starting to look like late USSR or modern RF, there's just no point to it and things are blowing up because we need X done to achieve Z, even if it takes a pile of bodies. Z is never achieved and it's all about X itself, cynically, it's just based on old praxis, the point is the action, and the outcome doesn't matter, it's just various states lying to you, nobody cares about X or Z. Not sure if this makes sense and isn't just based on my fear that everything is geopolitical and nothing means anything anymore, mind.

What I'm trying to say is that I have a very deep seated fear that everything is pointless and the modern world has been stripped of all reason to the point that there's no point doing anything, no matter how radical. Everything we do is utterly pointless until a total economic collapse that drags the whole world in. The future is horrifying to me, and the real fear is that there is nothing to stop it.



>It made sense at the start and got the gov around the table

It really didn't though, the "bombing lead to talks" argument makes no sense. The reason the British gov went to the table was because Maggie got thrown out of office and while Major was a bit shit he also wanted peace in norn. The bombing campaign only killed any support for the NICRM that existed in GB and that had been so carefully cultivated.


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What the fuck?



Nobody inclined to vote for UKIP cares about accusations of racism anymore. Cuck nigel is gone and has taken his Tories with him


I'd love to hate fuck jess. I imagine slamming her from on top, choking her out as she makes donkey noises. Have you ever heard the noise a donkey makes while being fucked? Its loud and wild and thats the dumb brummy donkey noise jess will make as I penetrate her deeper with every stroke. Id spit on her ugly face while she loses consciousness. Then id slap her red all over until she comes too just in time to take my load…

consensually of course..


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>Nobody inclined to vote for UKIP cares about accusations of racism anymore. Cuck nigel is gone and has taken his Tories with him

Eh UKIP actually having a major member espouse "scientific racism" will radically delegitimise them (which is what Nige worked so hard to achieve, legitimacy). UKIP going full BNP will only serve to kill them.


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Happy Easter btw lads.



You will be granted free meds for your schizophrenia after the revolution



Hahaha fuck me HEEHAW HEEHAW





historically illiterate trash, Thatcher signed onto the Anglo Irish Agreement within months of the Brighton bombing. Violence in Ireland only escalated *after* the NICRA and other protest groups started getting gunned down in the streets, without the impetus of violence there was zero political will to properly engage with the endemic social problems and every time that those problems were addressed can be directly tied to a dissident paramilitary campaign.



I mean, a broken clock is right at least twice a day.


Yeah, because the current government is leftist...



>for basically no reason

Easter Rising






It's called the NICRA for fuck's sake


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It was the day before, on the Saturday. My bad.


That was the name of the org, but the movement or campaign itself was what I was referring to.

In other news, a majority of tory members are gonna vote for Farage in the EU elections…



The torygraph has an article where several local tory associations have essentially boycotted the conservatives for the european election

I suspect they're going to get a worse slaughter than polls suggest because how many people are going to drag themselves to a european election vote fucking tory?



This is gonna make the Bermondsey by-election look like 1997 holy hell.

There's also the important feature that if the Brexit party do well (whether it is come first or second to Labour), that tory politicians might jump-ship to FBP or another outfit. People are quick to predict the death of parties, but honestly this is some terminal stuff.



UKIP are literally BTFO at this point tbh, they can't even get any of the CON voters.



Holy shit Alan Sugar doesn't actually understand how tax works.



Tbh hadn't actually clocked that.


Best part of all this is Sargon boasting about the rallies he's been holding and unironically calling it the UKIP World Tour, vote UKIP to save the world, and other autism.



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>tfw you make the mistake of reading the SPGB program while browsing for parties that are reasonably near you

How the fuck has this breed of hyper-sectarian Kautskyism survived to the 21st century?



That's because the Brexit Party is doing a very good job of posing as a single-issue 'stick it to the EU' party. That means Tories can vote for it without feeling disloyal. In reality the BXP has loads of ideological baggage. Farage has said 'there is no difference between the Brexit party and Ukip in terms of policy'. The only difference is that UKIP has embraced fascist loonies into the party while BXP has kept its distance.


This is not surprising. I remember seeing him get owned by Donald Trump of all people on Twitter.


Honestly I'm surprised that May has got off so lightly the last couple of weeks. She's broken all her promises and hasn't told anyone what her plan for the future is (if she even has one). I wonder if she's planning just to run down the clock again and try bullying her deal through in October.



>in reality the BXP has loads of ideological baggage

Yeah but these are only the EU elections, they will make no difference at all on domestic policy in the UK, so there is literally no downside to voting for the BXP. They will never enact any of their domestic agenda. Clearly in the next general election I will vote Labour, because policy actually matters here. A vote for the BXP is a way to say 'fuck you' to the remainiac establishment and remind them that we still want out. This is the biggest opportunity for a protest vote we will likely ever get, so fuck it.


George Galloway has a good article on this.

I'm not the other BXP supporter btw



Are there not going to be any Lexit candidates though? No2EU might be dead but you'd think there'd be somebody putting the case forward this time.



Not really known atm, I imagine some rando trot party like the WRP will stand but outside of that nah.


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Fucking hell, the Dissos have really fucked up.


Lol the brexit party has an ex ☭TANKIE☭ running for them.


The change UK list:

- Boris' sister

- a newsnight editor

- That weirdo QC Jolyon Mangham

- Fucking Tweetman

- Two current tory MEPs

What a shitshow.

Also lol apparently Dawkins applied to be a candidate.


How has the Extinction Rebellion's optics?



Only a 1/3rd of people support their methods, or

over a 1/3rd of people support direction action.

I mean tbh it has put climate change back on the agenda. So that's a thing.


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What's her plan?


How likely is it Nicola Sturgeon will be given a 2nd Indyref?



I honestly don't know considering that Farage has ABSOLUTE POWER in the party. Perhaps she just really wants brexit, but she is still on a cursed list (Ann Widdecombe was announced as a candidate today).


Low IMO, purely because anyone can turn around and say "okay but have another holyrood election" which will naturally see an upswing in pro-union voters voting Labour/Tory/LibDem, and there will be an anti-incumbency handicap for the SNP regardless. I think it's more Sturgeon playing for time with her base before they start realising that "Oh the SNP won't give us independence next year, let's vote for other ideologically stringent but pro-indy parties". Like the biggest threat to the SNP is there not being an indyref soon enough before people rejoin the SSP or join the greens or, lord forbid, someone founds a centre-right pro-indy party.


fucking hell

'brexit party' is the worst name i've heard in a long time but having actually seen their branding i can't shake the awful feeling that they might actually get representation. it's significantly better than any UKIP branding ever was.



Are you joking? The Brexit party literally has the best branding of all time. "What do you stand for?" "BREXIT". Also they did something immensely clever and went with the colour turquoise. Why turquoise? Because it has no connotations. None whatsoever. So now, it's theirs. The fact they've also gone for weird broad-frontism seems to also indicate their intent is to be far more of that than UKIP ever was (UKIP was an ideological project that resembles what would become the Front National or AfD in retrospect) and as-such be the party of brexit but not much more.

Also the whole UKIP-pound thing made way more sense when joining the Euro was a prospect, but they have to keep it now since when they changed things went to shit and the UKIP pound is a well known thing now (there's a reason Batten lowkey brought it back). So UKIP are left with a standard of an era where it's existence doesn't make much sense but sod-it it's wellknown.

Also reminder Blair wanted Labour to adopt the colour Purple Once-upon-a-time.



>"What do you stand for?" "BREXIT".

This is precisely why it sucks tbh. Brexit is already a pretty cringeworthy word and taking such a blunt approach to party naming makes it look like a literal child was on the name committee. Imagine of the SNP called themselves the Independent Scotland party.

Purple (even yellow and purple!) aren't unworkable but UKIP picked particularly bad shades.

How postmodern that the mong party has the tidy corporate branding while the big-brain-but-no-thoughts party (CHUK's suck and fuck) managed to cock it up spectacularly though.



Except we also have two parties named after the ideology they ascribe to (Conservatives, Liberals), one party named after a collective noun for who/what they represent (Labour), and a party that is a literal fucking colour. "Childish" works because it is simple and gets the point across (well at-least before it is institutionalised).

Yellow and Purple were picked iirc to appeal to the widest ranging demographics because A) purple is between Red & Blue, and B) yellow was meant to link to their classical liberal origins. You're right it's gordy, but so is UKIP as a party so eh.

Also tbh, did anyone not expect the CUKs, a literal W1A party, to not be the most W1A thing they can be? You know how they scream "WE'RE BREAKING THE MOULD": they think they're doing it in the same way that in Twenty-Twelve that bird does she she creates the DUN-DA-DUN-DA-DUN sonic logo for the 2012 olympics. Is it any wonder they went for such a shit logo as three horizontal bars.


Also for the record, atm Farage's Brexit Party is predicted to win Thurrock by most recent polling.


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Dear Gordon




File: 671aded8e44681d⋯.png (130.95 KB, 226x273, 226:273, 671aded8e44681d8f6b121c2a1….png)


>Adonis Bends the Knee

Truly blessed timeline.



What did he said though



Any even remotely socialist program requires Brexit, though?



>Change UK




they didn't think it through



She was a memeber of the trotskyist RCP, who although disbanded are still the ideological force behind Spiked magazine (Brendan O'Neil's shitrag). There's precious little that could be considered 'revolutionary' or 'communist' in the sort of things they support.



It's all Smears

Lol imagine going this deep this soon.


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>shopping around parties under FPTP

Go big or go home, join Labour+RMT.


The whole thing is dumb as fuck and thinking it over Saoradh are pretty dumb themselves. Ireland isn't united, yeah, but the Irish aren't getting gunned down and being deprived of basic human rights and representation like when The Troubles began. This was pretty much the dealbreaker and the IRA only became a big thing because the Irish back then were stuck in a situation of choosing between legitimate self defence or living like black Americans during Jim Crow. A gripe over which bourgeois state manages the remaining Norn territories isn't really that impressive and especially so when most people consider reunification a matter of time.


I loved seeing everyone whine about Based Seumas holding him hostage somewhere. Fucking love our ☭TANKIE☭ HQ tbqh.


Bitching about Brexit 24/7 and telling Brexiters not to vote Labour. Seems like Strategy and Comms got mad as fuck and threatened him after getting sick of it.


Getting some serious schadenfreude from seeing these smearing, leaking, wrecking cunts fall prey to every dirty trick they tried on Labour.


>Oh, hello Chuka, I've just dropped off Lord Adonis, why don't you come for a little ride to see him?



>All aboard the banter bus


The frustrating part about the spat between Toby Young and Greta Thunberg spat is that now everyone will remember Micheal Young as the man who coined the term meritocracy and its biggest criticism but as the guy who was a Baron of Darlington that helped his son get into Oxford. How ironic that his criticisms of meritocracy is personified into his youngest son.


Is that like a green bus?


> Micheal Young as the man who coined the term meritocracy

Micheal Young not as the man who coined the term meritocracy



Tbf, nobody will know who Toby Young is in 10 years.

>Is that like a green bus?

I think it's a biogas bus, you can find them in places like Edinburgh and that.





Tbf UKIP aren't very likely to win an MP in the NE, but fuck me.


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Absolutely based. Jez is a good lad.


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North West. Tommy Robinson will win the North West. Labour candidates there are pathetic weak remainers. Voters won't show up for them. Chuka party won't get a look in. No significant numbers will vote for Tories or Nigel Farage's Tory-lite party. Remember this is the electorate where Nick Griffin won his seat a decade ago.



Cheers for the bin-tier electoral analysis. Almost everything you said isn't based in fact but cheers for it anyways.



Was meant for >>2875100 in reference to the NE.


You are welcome I suppose. It's a fact that Tommy Robinson is running in the North West. It's a fact that Nick Griffin was previously elected by the same constituency.


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Do it.

Do it.

Do it.

Deselect him, anyway.


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Yeah but this isn't 2009. For starters these elections are expected to have the highest turnout for a Euro election in british history. Like legit, people are getting motivated. Secondly, the BNP was rising in a very different position to UKIP at the time, Labour was on its knees, and they had way more media publicity than UKIP does atm (no legit, think about it). Also they only got the seat through being the biggest loser, which they won;t this time in all likelihood. This is mostly because atm both the Greens and the CUKs are nationally polling bigger than them, which means biggest loser seats are far more likely to go to them.


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Honestly man, the Coop Party logo is fucking aesthetic: if a bit too Manc-esque.



However UKIP or any other party do nationally is irrelevant to the North West vote. If you think the Greens or CUKs are going to win seats in the NW constituency you are mad. Labour will get tribal votes, muslims voters (if they bother showing up) and probably the remain vote. I expect them to win a few seats in the NW but I don't think the turn out will be as spectacular as many on the left will hope. I'll be surprised if LibDems get a seat, especially as the two highest ranked Labour candidates are outspoken remainers. Conservatives and the Brexit party will compete and might get one or two seats each.

Tommy Robinson isn't a UKIP candidate he is running as an independent. He has an established following and is pretty much a political celebrity and cause célèbre. The media circus will follow his campaign at every turn and he will receive the most publicity out of any individual candidate by a country mile. Just from announcing his candidacy he already has the most media exposure, along with trending on twitter etc. Potential voters are excited about his candidacy and will turn out for him in big numbers. You are right that it's not 2009 anymore, Tommy Robinson is now a bigger name than Nick Griffin ever was.



See this is just bad analysis. It's based in feelings: not actually how elections work. For starters, if he is an indy candidate: good fucking luck to him because no indy candidate has ever won a European seat in the UK EU elections. Secondly, he has no organisational base. How is he gonna leaflet or get messages out considering his twitter & FB are down? As for the CUKs not winning a seat: you realise that Trafford & Southport exists right? the NW isn't all redbrick council estates. There are plenty of wealthy yuppies and rural commuter towns that will vote that way, and remember they are far more likely to vote full-stop. As for the "muh tribal, muslim, and remain" vote: you have to realise that in the NW Labour really motivated a lot of its base to vote. Like in Liverpool safe seats, turnout went up by like 10% and the labour vote by that turnout. There is a real energy being built up there. ANd while that means FA at a general, at something like the euros: the networks that exist to get people voting can really deliver.

As for his celebrity, you are falling for the Sargon Trap: just that he has followers online doesn't mean he is actually popular on the ground. To get a seat in the Euro elections, you have to get literally hundreds of thousands of votes. Just because he can get a protest going, doesn;t mean he will get their votes.

But your understanding of politics seems to come from meme concepts rather than actually how things work. I'd put money Tommy won't get that seat, I'd put my house on it.



did you make that



Trafford and Southport will overwhelmingly vote Labour, not CUK. Wealthy Yuppies will mostly vote Labour. Rural commuter towns will mostly vote Conservative/Brexit. The turnout in GE won't be as significant in the EU elections and the "energy" isn't there for Wajid and Theresa Griffin, although i've already stated that I think Labour will receive 3 seats more or less by default.

If you think events like the Manchester bombing and grooming gangs will be ignored by voters you are wrong. Emotion is part of the political process. The Islam issue is emotive. Especially in cities like Preston and Blackburn; and towns such as Rochdale, Oldham, Bolton, Burnley and Nelson. And not just in those places. Middle class Stockport hardly has any muslims but people there aren't removed from emotion surrounding Pakistani rape/drug gangs and suicide bombings.

The EU issue is also emotive. More people voted to leave the EU on emotion than because they researched the economy or due to their understanding of how the EU works. Emotion is powerful and I think you are displaying poor judgement by disregarding it as a factor. Tommy Robinson is an emotional character with a large cult of personality that will speak to voters. He already has some organisation and I predict it will expand rapidly. And not just the working class. He is all over social media, the bans are completely ineffective. Sargon is an e-celeb with fans largely in the USA. Tommy is actually famous among the British public. He absolutely has popular support on the ground, for every demonstrator who turns out there are dozens of silent supporters. I honestly will make that bet because it's clear to me that over 100000 people will vote Tommy. My house is only worth 80 grand but if your confident enough in your analysis i'm sure you won't mind putting yours on the the line regardless of its price tag.


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Nah got it from these lads. They are redesigning the shit ones, some of them are quite good.


>If you think events like the Manchester bombing

Gonna stop you right there, the reaction in Manchester (I would know, my sister was there) wasn't "BANG UP DA MUSLIMS", it was one of remorse and coming together. Even then, Corbyn's response at the time (remember it was during the election) was immensely popular.

Also Stockport & Trafford atm vote tory. Also just listing Northern towns and saying "muh rape gangs" isn't actually an argument, also doesn't factor into how NW contains rural Lancashire, Cheshire and Cumbria.

Also he might have a large cult of personality, but a large cult of personality doesn't translate into electoral success. You know who else had a cult of personality? Fucking Kilroy. Look where he turned-up. Also there will be vote-splitting between Tommy and UKIP itself. Also also Tommy is a fucking southerner (i'd know, I know Luton well). In a place where a Manc gets shit for running in Liverpool you think they;re gonna accept someone from Bedfordshire? Nah mate.

You're making a chicken out of a feather.

Also more busCorbyn.



My gf had two friends who died in the Manchester bombing. The reaction in the city centre was a few hundred people singing Don't Look Back In Anger to the media cameras. The pubs where I live the reaction was and is still far more extreme than "BANG THEM UP". The Northern towns I listed are places I have enough of a personal connection that I know how people are thinking, in fact I have family from Kendall to Macclesfield, and there is no enthusiasm for Chuka or the Greens. Rape and drug gangs are a visceral issue that the majority are aware of and Tommy Robinson will play on the issue for votes. As for Stockport and Trafford nobody is queuing up to vote Tory in the EU election for obvious reasons. They will mostly vote Labour because Labour are an establishment party. Stop conflating GE with the EU election. I anticipate rural towns to mostly split their vote between Brexit party and tribal Tory. UKIP voters will overwhelmingly vote Tommy Robinson so I doubt they will get a seat. As for invoking the north/south divide its you who is relying on meme concepts.




Imagine cheering on a fucking kike loving zionist brownshirt who protects pedos within his own ranks, beats his fucking wife, attacks unions and strikers despite professing his support for the "Working Class" and is overall a disgusting snivelling little grifting criminal. The absolute state of you lad.



At what point did I say I will vote for Tommy Robinson? Pointing out the case for why/how he will be elected isn't the same as supporting him.



Where did I imply you were gonna vote for him lad? I just said you were cheering him on, which you are.


Why the fuck is this thread so autistic now ffs?

I've only been gone for two weeks

Anyone mind telling me how Red London/all the other stupid Facebook ultras react to New IRA killing a Journalist?

I don't use facebook anymore so I can't see them trying to justify it myself, but I'm sure it was good



I took the phrase "cheering on" as an implication that you are accusing me of having an intention to vote for him when i've never voted in any election in my life and have no intention of starting now. If merely arguing the case for how someone will get elected is cheering them on then I suppose i'm guilty because i'm absolutely convinced he will get a seat, but you are completely incorrect if you think I support him. I will enjoy the media shitting themselves but again thats not cheering him on so much as taking pleasure in the suffering of Guardian journalists. It will be interesting to me to see how Tommy plays out being an MEP. I assume he will enjoy the gravy train while it lasts, making a few lacklustre speeches and hardly showing up for votes. Once again in case you are as confused as you seem, that is not me cheering him on.



I'm just shitposting because it's TOMMEH lad, don't worry about it, but yeah I agree with your assessment about him riding the gravy train but I do not think that he wants to take political office whatsoever unless that's been stipulated as something he has to do in whatever spook contract he has atm.



England is fucked regardless.



>SNP only mid tier

>A FUCKING TREE god tier

would physically fight whoever made this tbh

the text in the SNP logo, sure, it's not great. the actual symbol however is one of the smartest, simplest and most symbolically representative of all UK parties.


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nothing wrong with PBP



I legit cannot tell if that's supposed to be satire or not



Lmfao what is the source on this


I'm thinking of succumbing to paying for the tv licence. Feels like im giving in to the damn BBC



Literally why. They have no power to make you.



I want to watch snooker and i'm tired of looking for streams but don't want to be fined. They can take you to court for not paying.



>They can take you to court for not paying.

Only if they catch you watching TV, which is incredibly unlikely.


Politicians fight tooth and nail to prevent Brexit to prevent harm because they 'love us' yet these same politicians implement Austerity for years.


Their actions indicate just how good for the worker Brexit truly is. Consider the Commonwealth market. It is not mentioned at all by the media. It is owned by the people of Britain and has a customer market size 4 to 5 times larger than the EU market - and Britain is forbidden to use it by the EU.

The sooner we get out of the pseudo-aristocracy EU the better! UK students used to be PAID to go to university before the tentacles of the EU took hold.




Someone took them to court and they released some documents, but tried to withhold part of it because it would expose how they operate - however, you can work out the missing part & what they do…

If you reply to their pestering letters and tell them you don't have a TV it puts you on their visit list. If you don't reply they have no right to enter.

I'd rather never watch TV again than give one penny to the scum for covering up Savile & his ilk.



I don't have a tv right now and will have to watch iPlayer. pretty sure they can catch you must easier on iPlayer. A guy got caught using my works internet to watch BBC without a licence and the company got fined.


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>tfw no left wing brexit party to support at the EU election



You can buy a TV for less than the licence costs.


This tbh. Not sure if I'm seriously going to vote for Farage.



Just vote labour. There is literally nothing wrong and everything right about strengthening labour's performance in the european elections.





Don't vote. Fuck Labour, they aren't putting up enough Brexiteers to make it worthwhile in any constituency.



it's the european parliament lmao they could put up tony blair for all it matters

if you don't vote labour or an irrelevant little socialist party that won't win any seats just to make a point you are swine.



So be it then, i'm a swine. Leaving the EU is more important to me then backing the fucking Labour party.



card carrying London Association of Radical Proletariats member detected.



Fuck you. So what? The EU parliament doesn't fucking matter, who the EMPs are doesn't matter, they have no power, no coverage, nothing. We're going to be out and gone before their terms are up anyway.

Let the Brexit party destroy what remains of UKIPs political presence and fuck up the tories , meanwhile a strong unified showing for Labour will be a show of strength, btfo the blairite critics and CUKs yet again, and pave the way to post-brexit PM Corbyn.




>Just vote labour.

After they voted to overturn a democratic vote? No thanks.

I don't think they thought through what they did by that. Utterly shameful. The following became possible: if we vote Jeremy in at the next GE then May *spit* is now justified to turn around and say "sorry guys, I'm not handing the keys to No. 10 over just yet. We need a transition period and then possibly a peoples' vote after to be sure"



>they voted to overturn a democratic vote

cringe and citation needed



>btfo the blairite critics and CUKs yet again

What they really don't want is for unambiguously pro-Brexit parties to beat the Remain parties. They're treating this as a form of referendum on Brexit. So I'm not going to vote Labour when the leadership is sitting on the fence and when the actual candidates are likely to be out-and-out Remainers.



Another needless Brexiter purist…


>After they voted to overturn a democratic vote? No thanks

Ironic that the Remaoners are saying the exact same thing



>Not sure if I'm seriously going to vote for Farage.

Farage is a loud gobshite. He calls his audience "little people" and they lap it up.

I bet if people vote for him he'll turn around and agree with May and sell out his voters.He's already planting the idea of doing the referendum again. He's a conman. Buyer (or voter) beware.



>Ironic that the Remaoners are saying the exact same thing

Of course, it was effectively a coup against us. They sit there in their posh house to represent us, but decided to represent themselves and voters (or "little people" as Farage plonker calls us) be damned.



>born after 2016

read a history book



>represent us

us being only 52%, no exactly an overwhelming number. Labour has/wants to balance both camps about with a compromise. That is kinda how democracy works. Both camps aren't giving way let alone speak to one another. Needlessly divisive.



>post-brexit PM Corbyn

From this Brexit debacle May has been given a precedent to not hand over the keys to No.10 if she loses. She can now declare a transition period, followed by another Peoples' vote GE.



>That is kinda how democracy works

No. Referenda are the final say on an issue. Being anti-Brexit stopped being a legitimate position the moment the referendum result was announced.



>you have to win by a certain amount for it to matter

No no no! We always go by who wins. Except this time we have not gone by who won. This makes a dangerous precedent.

This means next time we don't have to go by who wins. Next time would be Corybn winning - AND IT CAN NOW BE IGNORED!

Pretty shortsighted to not see that Tories are using this as a strategy to block Corbyn from ever getting the keys to No.10.



whoa shit i've been blown the FUCK out by the leftcom wing of the London Association of Revolutionary Proletarians.

wtf i'm voting brexit party noww!!!!


dae referenda are just like general elections?




Referendum are technically suggestions/polling though.

>Being anti-Brexit stopped being a legitimate position the moment the referendum result was announced.

Then your 'democracy' is effectively mob mentality/rule. The minority has to have some weight/influence in the decision making.

I am not saying that UK cannot leave, but the voice of remainers, however whiny have to be heard.



>Referendum are technically suggestions/polling though

Except plonker Cameron screwed that up by putting a legally binding clause in a document he put into everyones' home. "We will implement the result…."



Also it is interesting that you are conflating GE with Referendums, when even as Opposition, MPs can still have an impact and influence in the decision of the Offical Government. They aren't exactly silenced and impotent in the Commons until the next elections you know…




also though I'd hate to admit it that gobshite Farage is right when he makes the point both parties promised to implement the result in the GE that followed.



>conflating GE with Referendums

No I'm not. My underlying discussion is about the sanctity of the vote. What is decided in the ballot box carries - until now. It is a very dangerous precedent, and effectively takes power out of the hands of the worker. The fact so many people are celebrating this is even more concerning. Workers are happy & celebrating being disenfranchised by the ruling elite! WTF?!!


Need Brexit cancelled so that all the middle class remainers who'd leave for Canada/Australa/NZ stay in Britain making it easier for me to fuck off.

Simple as.



>technically suggestions/polling though

Technically but not morally. Almost everyone accepted that the referendum result would have to be carried out. The remainers (anticipating victory) were already warning that Brexiters would have to accept defeat when they lost the vote.

>the voice of remainers, however whiny have to be heard.

They were heard, and they lost.



Brexit party aren't going to destroy the Torys, it's a temporary measure to keep Tory control. I'd sooner vote UKIP but prefer not to vote at all. As for Labour they don't deserve a show of strength for betraying Brexiteers. Blairites and CUKs will btfo themselves regardless.


>Another needless Brexiter purist…

Yep I took a stance and will stick to it. I never trusted Labour but Corbyn lost me the moment he allowed remainers to force 2nd referendum as policy. The party is a farce and I care not about their fate.



>"We will implement the result…."



>the sanctity of the vote

But both parties are still trying to leave as you already admitted. You are just upset that the conditions are not what you wanted.


>The remainers (anticipating victory) were already warning that Brexiters would have to accept defeat when they lost the vote.

Then they are assuming their 'democracy' is effectively mob mentality/rule too. If you want to be as braindead as Remaoners, I won't stop you.

>They were heard, and they lost.

The point of it being a democracy is that their voice are still heard despite losing retard



the thing is this has always been the case in british elections though

in 1951 labour won the popular vote and lost the election

in Feb 1974

*looks left*

*looks right*

HEATH won the popular vote narrowly. But Wilson won the election.

What matters is and has always been numbers in parliament.

postscript: if people want a re-run that's fine too provided pressure is large enough. quebec had a re run. scotland should get a re-run. once you've fucked it twice it always dies down. (see: quebec.)

the assumption that a second referendum would easily be won by remain, who have yet to learn the full lessons of why they lost the first referendum is facile.



>The point of it being a democracy is that their voice are still heard despite losing retard

If by 'still heard' you mean that they have a right to obstruct the implementation of a democratic vote, then no, that is not democracy.



>the sanctity of the vote

you dumb spooked cunt



>obstruct the implementation of a democratic vote

As long as it is legal and parliamentary, it is fam, suck it the fuck up.



>legal and parliamentary

British law is not democratic and 'parliamentary democracy' is an oxymoron. You've bought into this bullshit definition of democracy as meaning 'whatever Western countries do'.



I can't stomach Farage with his Tory-lite party. I might just hold my nose and go for UKIP this time round. I can't vote for a party that openly thinks betrayal is OK.


>But both parties are still trying to leave as you already admitted.

Err no. You may have missed the fact we didn't leave on 29th March, didn't leave on 12th April, and are campaigning openly to re-run the Referendum ( = we know the better than you, do it again)


>>"We will implement the result…."




>won the popular vote

>The "popular vote" argument.

There is no competition for a "popular vote" in an election - therefore no one can "win" a competition that doesn't exist.


>>the sanctity of the vote

>you dumb spooked cunt

Enjoy your disenfranchisement comrade.



direct democracy via referenda is a meme

either go one step lower to work self organisation or one step higher to parliament. referenda are appropriate only for the mutated gnome people of zurich-canton-7.



But Western countries are democratic though. And forgive me if I don’t take the words from someone who thinks that democracy is mob rule. You are the democrats the monarchists whine about








I'm not saying it necessarily works better but the referendum clearly has more democratic legitimacy than Parliament.



>the referendum clearly has more democratic legitimacy than Parliament.




>There is nothing in between dictatorship and mob rule

Read a fucking book UKIPer



t. probably wishes we had a constitution and a PR electoral system



Single transfer vote is better for a place as diverse as UK tbh



based and

dare i say it..?


the referendum was fucked because we did it arse backwards

any serious referendum would have had a ranked preference element to decide what approach would be taken to leaving the EU if we actually did so. (tbh not a terrible idea now, if only to kill some time and get us to the ballot box again.)


PR can be defended (generally after a massively reforming labour government has fixed the essentials) but yeah constitutions are a fucking meme



>But Western countries are democratic though


>who thinks that democracy is mob rule

Having a referendum and then carrying out the result of that referendum is not 'mob rule'.

>You are the democrats the monarchists whine about

Democracy is when the people get their way. That's what monarchists are against. So they came up with another form of fake 'democracy' where the people only appear to get their way, i.e. parliamentary democracy.




And sure, democracy is when people get their way, you are trying to silence Remainers or pretend that their opinions shouldn’t matter in carrying out the referendum is making it look like democracy is when the MAJORITY get their way, which is effectively mob rule.


File: 6b12286e1741a7d⋯.mp4 (14.39 MB, 640x360, 16:9, goodbye to the crown.mp4)


>monarchists came up with parliament

>he doesn't realise Parliament is the weapon of the bourgeoisie against the monarchy

cringe and bluepilled

live in the service of Lord Protector Corbyn or die tbh



what is the result?



>democracy is when the MAJORITY get their way

If Brexit is not carried out, it will be the minority getting its way. That is less democratic.

>you are trying to silence Remainers or pretend that their opinions shouldn’t matter

No I'm fucking not. They are free to contribute to the debate on what sort of Brexit we should have. They are even free to spout their awful anti-democratic opinions (I'm not trying to forcibly shut them up). But those anti-democratic opinions are not legitimate and should not be treated as such, any more than actual monarchists or fascists.



But Brexit is still being negotiated so stop whining bitch

>not legitimate

As long as the judiciary doesn’t say anything, their actions are as legitimate as the referendum. Nor is asking for a referendum on the final decision undemocratic.


very few people advocate cancelling brexit without a second referendum

there's nothing anti democratic about a second referendum except the time delay it poses, given the balance of powers haven't suddenly shifted on illegitimate grounds.

we're going to experience the necessary time delay anyway because we have no idea what we're doing

the most anti-democratic part of a second referendum is that it encourages bluffing by the other party during the negotiation stage in the interest of modifying the result of the referendum. that's why it would fuck over something like scotland to have a confirmatory referendum, because the UK could then offer ridiculous terms of exit. but now we've gone and fucked it up anyway and negotiated a deal so whatever, in brexit terms it doesn't matter.

let's join the euro but leave the eu lol.



>the most anti-democratic part of a second referendum

That is less of anti-democratic as it more of a moral hazard, which is probably why the official government cant advocate it but the opposition could advocate it with ease



'The UK should leave the European Union'


>But Brexit is still being negotiated so stop whining bitch

<The anti-democratic outrage hasn't happened yet so you can't talk about the fact that it might happen

>As long as the judiciary doesn’t say anything, their actions are as legitimate as the referendum

There you go again. How did you wind up on /leftypol/ when you think legitimacy is conferred by the bourgeois state?

>Nor is asking for a referendum on the final decision undemocratic.

Yes it is when one of the options is 'cancel the whole thing'.



well yeah, but i don't discount the anti-democratic effects of such buggering about.


right, so join the EEA and pop off for tea, job done and we're all happy (especially you) - right?



>Yes it is when one of the options is 'cancel the whole thing'.

>Democracy is when people can't change their mind

the absolute state of you lad



>The anti-democratic outrage hasn't happened yet so you can't talk about the fact that it might happen

Crying wolf at this point of time when no attempt is made to stop

>There you go again. How did you wind up on /leftypol/ when you think legitimacy is conferred by the bourgeois state?

That is another issue altogether that you are trying to conflate, you are trying to claim legitimacy based on democracy not on bourgeois dictatorship. Obviously UK is bourgeois state but the Remain/Divide isn’t exactly a bourgeois/proletariat divide. Even if a proletariat dictatorship my opinions will not change.

>Yes it is when one of the options is 'cancel the whole thing'.

How is that undemocratic?




The fact that I'm attacking anti-Brexiters does not mean I'm happy with a shitty soft Brexit. The latter is compatible with the referendum but it is still shit.


>Democracy is when you stall and bullshit for several years and then run the vote again without having implemented the result

Europhiles are free to advocate rejoining the EU after we have left.


>when no attempt is made to stop

? Millions of people are trying to stop Brexit, including several of Corbyn's most senior shadow ministers.

>That is another issue altogether

No it's not, the whole issue here is whether it's legitimate to cancel Brexit. If you think it's legitimate BECAUSE it is under British law, then…

>How is that undemocratic?

Because the result of the first referendum hasn't been carried out despite ample time to do so. Having a second referendum in the hope of reversing the first, instead of carrying out the result of the first one, is not democratic.



It's not a strawman, it's an illustration of what a clusterfuck a referendum without any further information to go on can be. Pretty much every outcome is going to piss off some of the people who voted for it. In picking one you have to figure out which one has the broadest support amongst the entirety of the population, including those who voted remain. The result, frankly, is fuck knows. A simple approach might take all remain votes as having EEA as their second choice, but that's not guaranteed. Just as you get Lib Dem > UKIP > Lib Dem voters, you'll almost certainly get Remain > Hard Brexit voters.

>Europhiles are free to advocate rejoining the EU after we have left.

This is a stupid approach that benefits nobody in the event people have actually changed their mind. It's basically the flip-side of using a second referendum to stack the deck against negotiations to leave in the first place.

A much better line (though still a bad and spooked one) would be to appeal to the responsibility of the government to implement policy, rather than any democratic necessity.



>Europhiles are free to advocate rejoining the EU after we have left.

If there are people who voted leave in 2016 and have since changed their mind and would like to scrap Brexit, and if this means that the majority of eligible voters would now like to stay in the EU, then who are you to on democratic grounds demand that something be done which does not have the support of a majority of the electorate?



>something be done which does not have the support of a majority of the electorate?

Except it does. That was the whole point of the referendum. The result is supported by the majority of the electorate. The bourgeois clubhouse know it profits the workers and not them, so they have dragged their feet to do everything possible to stop it happening. You didn't hear these kind of "ignore the will of the people" arguments when "the support of the majority" was against austerity did you?



>The result is supported by the majority of the electorate

No, the result was. If the result is and will be you would have nothing to fear from a second referendum. That's why this argument is so facile. If you're confident your position will win, there's nothing to fear from a second referendum. Not only that, a second referendum would offer additional and unambiguous legitimacy to the position and deliver another massive humiliation to those who campaigned to remain, having been told to fuck off twice.

Similarly it's true that if the government and pro-UK parties in Scotland were as confident as they pretend to be that the 2014 result was definitive, they'd want the SNP to Parti Québécois themselves ASAP and try to rush into another vote. Instead, all the stops are pulled out to prevent one because of that lack of confidence.

I'm not sure why there's this total lack of confidence in the ability of leave to win a second referendum anyway. The odds are strongly in their favour simply because those who want to remain have learned almost none of the lessons of 2016, and the second referendum is going to be tainted with an unwarranted impression of illegitimacy delivering further advantage to the leave side.


File: ed697097a118d06⋯.png (1.02 MB, 1199x848, 1199:848, ClipboardImage.png)

>Brexit Party winning 5 seats in Holyrood

Wat le fug



>including several of Corbyn's most senior shadow ministers.

But they aren't though

>If you think it's legitimate BECAUSE it is under British law, then…

But it didn't only mentioning that only the Judiciary can claim something is illegitimate (which ngl I assume you meant or basing it on legality instead of your fee-fees)

>Because the result of the first referendum hasn't been carried out despite ample time to do so.

The referendum is made on whether UK should leave EU, not whether it will or it must though.

>Having a second referendum in the hope of reversing the first, instead of carrying out the result of the first one, is not democratic.

But the first one would be carried, ie got a deal to leave the EU, the second could be to accept or refuse, and if you want, to renegotiate.


File: 156d656d7a339ae⋯.png (909.58 KB, 848x1199, 848:1199, ClipboardImage.png)

>Tories winning no Euro seats in Scotland




>The bourgeois clubhouse know it profits the workers and not them

Why are you pretending that some bourgeois didn't supported the Leave campaign too? Leaving could or would benefit the bourgeois too, it really depends on what kind of bourgeois.


File: c98bcca629a101d⋯.png (839.07 KB, 3508x2480, 877:620, socialistbritain15.png)

File: 7365eb032f6c0d0⋯.jpg (88.01 KB, 900x734, 450:367, socialistbritain16.jpg)


Scottish independence would just mean the federalisation of the British bourgeoisie. It would actually set back progress towards socialism in Scotland as well as the rest of Great Britain. Scotland should stick with Wales and England and fight for a Socialist Federal Republic of Great Britain.



1 million Scots voted to Leave, I don't know what's so surprising.



I guess I didn't expect them to reach that kind of point so quickly. Tbh, thinking about is the Brexit Party doesn't have the unionist baggage of UKIP so it could attract pro-indy brexit supporters.




Broke: Being a Scottish nationalist

Woke: Realising Scotland doesn't deserve saving because of the number of tories and other assorted right wing weirdos and that the smart thing to do is make like the majority of Scots in the world today and live outside Scotland.


File: 7fcd8b015b6daf0⋯.png (7.14 KB, 1200x865, 240:173, chartist.png)


smh, either a British Peoples' Republic (BPR) or Commonwealth of Britain (CoB)


File: 139a117b0cbb9af⋯.png (847.43 KB, 900x598, 450:299, ClipboardImage.png)


>Commonwealth of Britain




Yes the incredibly unprecedented event that left wingers are undemocratically deprived of their legitimate governments, all they needed was an excuse! Get a grip. The LP members are total faggots for demanding a second referendum* at conference but this is such a hysterical line of argument and reasoning it's impossible to take you seriously.

*it's worded so weaselly due to leadership interference it's fair to assume the leadership don't intend on following through with it


Neck yourself #FBPEr



Fucking kill yourself liberal middle-class scum.

>Of university graduates, 78 per cent want to remain, according to the report, but of those with no qualifications, the figure is 35 per cent.




>Neck yourself #FBPEr

lol, i voted to leave and don't want a second referendum precisely because i worry remain would win this time, but im not so much of a faggot to act outraged and pretend i have some great democratic principle on my side. Leaving the EU is good, whether people want it or not, so fucking own it faggot.



love that you cited this along education rather than along income lines

please sell me a copy of your newspaper, the London Anarchist Review of Politics



Haha I'm in agreement actually, I thought you were unironically shilling for MORE DEMOCRACY™ (when it gets the result we want, T&C's apply)


EPIC moment Sargon of Akkad BTFO Bristol ANTIFA on their patch




>there's nothing to fear from a second referendum

Missing the point entirely. It has sod all to do with "fear". The idea of holding a second referendum should be abhorrent to any voter, regardless of sides - because it is tantamount to ignoring the will of the people by asking people to vote again.

Holding a "second referendum" defacto states the "first referendum", and your vote in it - was insufficient, not good enough, does not count.

The fact so many are express emotions ranging from apathetic to joyous gratitude for being pissed on by the laughing bourgeois is quite frankly stunning!



>Holding a "second referendum" defacto states the "first referendum", and your vote in it - was insufficient, not good enough, does not count.

no it doesn't you hysterical nonce.



>Why are you pretending that some bourgeois didn't supported the Leave campaign too?

You answered your own question. "some" is not "most".



It does when the result of the first one is not fulfilled.


File: 454336a86ac6316⋯.jpg (67.71 KB, 837x640, 837:640, brexit_Cluap64WYAAgnTr.jpg….jpg)


>higher education

>higher median income

>higher social grade

so are you already a labour aristocrat or still studying?



>Social grade

The social grade is bullshit considering pensioners are considered "working class" regardless of income.


everything i dislike is bourgeoisie



How is that contradict what I said?


You posted as if every bourgeois in on it retard.







the eu is a neolibaral institution created by capitalists to fight for their class interests and is by design unreformable



So you do think people have no right to change their mind? :^)


also this



>not french


File: 018a3f0aab59622⋯.jpg (13.79 KB, 640x595, 128:119, 55744454_10218954176833684….jpg)


>Bourgois is when you are more educated, earn more and pay more taxes and not owning the means of production

Really made me think






>no it doesn't you hysterical nonce.

Either the first referendum is good enough or it isn't. It sounds like you think it isn't but want to pretend it is. Make your mind up which.

An Olympic race is taking place. The winner will get a gold medal. The race is run. A winner is decided. The winner is not given the gold medal. They are told there is nothing wrong with the race, but the race must be run again before a medal can be given. = your current logic.



You're mistaking criticism of your infantile and retarded line of attack on the notion of a second referendum for advocacy of staying in the EU.

You dumb cunt.



They do, but after the result of votes have been implemented. Even in years with rerun elections, the parliament that is elected first takes its seats. I am not opposed to a second referendum (under specific circumstances), but it should occur with the fulfillment of brexit itself.



need an age-income-education weighted value to make a judgement tbh. homeowning old people get the surtax.

anyway: labour aristocracy used in this sense is a meme. if you want the labour aristocracy you're gonna have to look in london, not in the places normal people live.

and even londoners are real proles compared to californians tbh.

would post more but i can smell the london association on you.


i mean what i said

(also it's frogspeak)


dunno why you'd assume i'm pro EU without making exactly the kind of logical leaps i like to fuck with people for making.


gotta be fair there's a real non-MOP owning elite who still deserve the surtax.

they're more dominant online than in real life though, and in the USA than in the UK.


i see the london association are drawing in typesetters from the guardian



You can always have another referendum to leave if you want…



>Bourgois is when you are more educated, earn more and pay more taxes

All of this is true for millionaires and it is a historical fact that the intelligentsia largely sides with the big bourgeoisie as you are doing now.



>You posted as if every bourgeois in on it retard.

Practically is. Those against are few in comparison.


If you lot don't calm down I'm calling the Freikorps.



>An Olympic race is taking place. The winner will get a gold medal. The race is run. A winner is decided. The winner is not given the gold medal. They are told there is nothing wrong with the race, but the race must be run again before a medal can be given.

did you work on the no2av campaign or something? what a shit analogy. stop it or i'll start posting their shit posters again.






that's my flag m80



>you spelt it wrong

Yeah, I'd call them something else, but I'm trying to be polite.



>yes but no: the post

The founder of Dyson was for it though. Other large companies' CEO were for it IIRC.


>All of this is true for millionaires

Then show me a graph about millionaires then

>it is a historical fact that the intelligentsia

Still doesn't make them bourgeois you retard




Except we didn't.

The 1975 vote was to join the Common Market. The EU didn't exist, and voters were reassured such a thing would never materialize. Those campaigning to stay out with scare stories about an EU-superstate forming were berated as fantasists.



>and voters were reassured such a thing would never materialize

cringe and false and fuck off with your dumb meme

Heath got up on television and told us the nation state was a heap of shit and that a united states of europe was cool and good.



>and told us

ok gramps time for your nap



>thinking you'd get av and not an even worse version of the current system




>referenda are competitions

jesus christ.

If your notion of democracy is for trying to ensure actions are taken only with the consent of the electorate then since the electorate can and does change its mind it can in fact be the case that what at one point had the support of most people and was right to do, can lose that support and no longer enjoy majority support and thus become wrong to do.

Just as when two adults consent to sexual activity with one another, it is not the case that once consent is given this gives either party any absolute right to complete coitus, consent can be withdrawn by either party at any point and from such a point it is wrong to continue pursuing completion of the sexual act. In our case the consent of the majority of the population is the condition for something being right to do, and this too can be withdrawn, to deny the right to withdraw such consent is in effect gagging one's partner and raping them as they weep after initial consent is given. = stop raping the british people faggot



great retort to being called out on talking shit you bullshitting cliche spouter.


av was just a worse version of the current system, that's why nick clegg is such a pathetic freak for selling out for it.

but that doesn't stop the no2av campaign from being one of the most insultingly stupid in british history.



Do also you recall him saying the Pound Sterling was for the chop, and British fish would be off the menu? …because I sure as shit don't.


File: 47ad33988dc37e8⋯.png (119.58 KB, 1654x434, 827:217, Screen Shot 2019-04-27 at ….png)


Im not him, boomer. Learn2internet



Millionaires also breathe air and eat food, lern 2 necessary and sufficient conditions faggot

also bold of you to assume university graduates comprise an intelligentsia lol



Fine, let's do things your way. When Corbyn wins we can sit on our hands for three years while the current Tory government continue to shit on us until we have a Peoples' Vote Election - "since the electorate can and does change its mind it".

If an election result, any election result can be overlooked, nullified, ignored - then it sets a PRECEDENT for EVERY election thereafter.



imagine being such a zoomer that you think a screenshot is proof of anything

shouldn't you be phoneposting?



if you compare elections and referenda one more time i swear to god



Reminder that all nurses are uni graduates nowadays.

In other news, 10% of Yes voters in 2014 support the Brexit Party. Big boon for them.



I usually do, got on my macbook just to humiliate you.



>any election result can be overlooked, nullified, ignored - then it sets a PRECEDENT for EVERY election thereafter.

Technically every election nullifies, overlooks and ignores the previous ones so yea…



smh these europhiles won't even let fish be british nowadays



Last time I checked, when we have an election: parliament has the new MPs sworn in. Pretty sure this has happened with every election since the glorious revolution too.



Yes and?



1. When Corbyn wins what exactly? If you're referring to a GE then you're completely out of your mind to think that an election result would be ignored like that and it betrays your complete hysterical ignorance because its not how it works, a GE is in reality 650 individual constituency elections which can only be judged to be invalid on an individual basis. If results in any given result were in question and/or there was significant uproar within a constituency and petition to recall an MP there would likely be a by-election.

Moreover its idealistic of you to think that if the british ruling class were so intent on stopping Corbyn from getting in No.10 that they would ignore an election result they would need a 'precedent', not to mention your retarded idea of a second referendum on brexit setting a precedent for denying MPs the right to take their seats in the HoC or for a party to form a government.

2. I refer you to >>2876442

I don't want a second referendum, its just that your reasons not to have it are inconsistent and suck ass and you're making the rest of us look bad you daft cunt.




watch out lad there's a london association member around here looking for labour aristocrats



>he didn't go to public school

lmao do you even play rugby union?



>Technically every election nullifies, overlooks and ignores the previous ones so yea

Except for the minor fact that the result carries for every case but this one.


>if you compare elections and referenda one more time i swear to god

If you still don't understand how you're being disenfranchised, please don't reply to me again. Thanks.


> If you're referring to a GE then you're completely out of your mind to think that an election result would be ignored like that

>an election result would be ignored like that

>an election result would be ignored like that

Doh! It already has happened!

What did you think 29th March, and 12th April were???

The precedent is set. Tories have now been given the keys to the kingdom PERMANENTLY. I'm shocked that so few are narked by this, or even realize it occurred.



>>an election result would be ignored like that

The election result of 2016 being ignored has set the precedent that any election (GE or otherwise) may be ignored thereafter.



>be me

<wearing a British and Irish Lions top

Fight me fggit.



>Except for the minor fact that the result carries for every case but this one.

No? One can always push for a new refurdemun to override the frist one and it would still be democratic. Just like how snap election can be called to override the previous election that created the government



hysterical schizo tier tbh

Referenda and elections are incomparable and you cannot address this because your paranoid ravings are entirely based on this one baseless assertion.

>What did you think 29th March, and 12th April were???

Three question marks and not one iota of sense. It should be noted neither of those dates have anything to do with the 2016 referendum result faggot. They are simply the previous expected end dates of the article 50 period, the referendum did not set either of those dates, it didn't set a date for article 50 to be initiated, that was all done by the gov and parliament. You literally just bought into tory backbencher fear-mongering about how extending article 50 is some great betrayal, so let me remind you that the 29th March and 12 April dates were literally just Tory election promises, nothing to do with the referendum result.

>The precedent is set. Tories have now been given the keys to the kingdom PERMANENTLY.

Absolutely delusional and schizo-pilled

>I'm shocked that so few are narked by this, or even realize it occurred.

<Why is no one alarmed by my fantastical paranoia about how extending article 50 is basically the enabling act!!??!!?

lol at you being just shy of self-awareness


does anyone else think being asked to vote is being disenfranchised????



there was no election in 2016.

the result isn't being ignored, you colossal twat. we didn't trigger article 50 for bants.


William Wedgwood Benn, 1st Viscount Stansgate > Tony Benn

This is indisputable.



he was good, but not that good



>>The precedent is set. Tories have now been given the keys to the kingdom PERMANENTLY.

>Absolutely delusional and schizo-pilled

Call it whatever makes you feel more comfortable to accept the boot on your throat comrade.


>we didn't trigger article 50 for bants.

Well it certainly wasn't triggered for Brexit either.

What people say, and what they do - especially, when politicians are concerned - are oft two opposites. Those who naively think Article 50 was to enable Brexit neither bothered to read nor understand it's implications. Signing Article50 would have to result in May's surrender document - which is precisely what happened.

You still haven't woken up to what the current events point to - she has already signed her surrender treaty with the EU and is looking for a way to get it passed publicly.



>Article50 would have to result in May's surrender document

No deal exit is extremely retarded too though



>inane schizoposting infecting /leftybritpol/

you hate to see it



what are the terms of surrender?



The result of the referendum has not been fulfilled.



Nah mate.


File: 703459546a18a53⋯.png (200.33 KB, 1200x500, 12:5, Wedgie.png)

Wedgie went soft.



>what are the terms of surrender?

Did you even read the 585 page document?


>No deal exit is extremely retarded too though

No deal is what was chosen as the referendum result, somehow there's a massive memory gap where people forget this even happened.

The PigMounter Cameron was to & fro with the EU for the better part of a year before he put his 'new EU deal' to the electorate. They could choose 'new' deal or no deal. No deal was chosen. Then he left to spend more time on the farm with loved ones and May went back to repeat what he was doing - getting a 'deal' from the EU.



>Did you even read the 585 page document?

is this a fucking joke?

mate if i'm going to read a 585 page document it's going to be the opening chapter of Das Kapital


New thread:




It is being fulfilling lmao


>No deal is what was chosen as the referendum result

No the fuck it wasn't. Literally nothing was written on the referendum slip that implies that.



>It is being fulfilling lmao

The UK is still a member of the EU. Until it is not a member of the EU (under any arrangement), the referendum has not been fulfilled.



Yes and? UK is still in the process of leaving.



So there is no reasonable argument for a second referendum until the UK has formally left the EU.



dangerous and down right stupid



>>he didn't go to public school

>lmao do you even play rugby union?

Hold on boyo, rugby union has completely different class connotations in Wales

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