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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

A collective of people engaged in pretty much what the name suggests
Winner of the 77nd Attention-Hungry Games
/x/ - Paranormal Phenomena and The RCP Authority

April 2019 - 8chan Transparency Report
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File: 2f6c9b75645abaa⋯.jpg (20.06 KB, 930x558, 5:3, 3500.jpg)

 No.2892020

What is /leftypol/'s stance on abortion?

I know that many people here consider it a wedge/idpol issue used to deflect class antagonism, but for a lot of people it really is a very important issue: A lot of evangelical Christians are single issue voters that voted for Trump solely because they are anti-abortion.

In Mexico too, a lot of people use AMLO's stance on abortion to push their neoliberal, actually reactionary parties. And in the Philippines, a deeply catholic country, communist leaders and militias are demonized as literal child murderers because of their pro-choice and feminist leanings.

In the last week, we saw laws passed in the American South that make abortion punishable by 99 years in jail, to much fanfare by Trump supporters. Ben Shapiro, Joe Rogan, Molyneux and similar proto-fascist goons keep bringing up the "Progressives want to kill babies" point too.

I think it's an important issue to discuss how to connect with the working class that sees abortion as child murder, and also not forget that women saw the ability to control their reproductive rights as an integral part of liberation.

 No.2892024

everyone who has sex should be punished with children


 No.2892026

End abortions by ending the material deprivation of the proletariat so that they can raise kids, that will end like 99% of abortion. The """pro life""" types don't care about the lives of fetuses, they care about the social and emotional control of women.


 No.2892034

>>2892020

The vast majority of people here are anti-abortion.


 No.2892039

File: 0b0fd5ffbe54195⋯.png (602.98 KB, 584x552, 73:69, 73379188d02e716d7b13766ff5….png)

>>2892034

Most people here used to be anti-natalist.


 No.2892042

>>2892034

really?

I would think we should be pro abortion for environmental reasons.


 No.2892043

I just don't see what's the difference between killing a fetus or a person in a coma or even a sleeping person. In both cases you are dealing with unconscious human life, so you shouldn't kill it. Because of this I'm leaning quite anti-abortion except in extreme cases where a woman got raped etc.


 No.2892045

>>2892042

we should also decimate the third world, you know for the environment


 No.2892046

As for the economic argument, there are plenty of ways to get rid of your baby without killing it. In most Western countries there are boxes in hospitals where you put your newborn in if you are really desperate and can't raise it.


 No.2892047

Abortion prevents child abuse. Unwanted children from unfit parents can be avoided in many ways. “Safe, legal, and rare,” was always the correct attitude. Legal abortion should be paired with contraceptive support, of which the most important contraceptive is the IUD. When there’s an implant for men, that will also be very important.

Mothers who don’t feel an emotional challenge from abortion probably shouldn’t be stopped from getting them. Meanwhile, there are many ways for an unfit father to pressure the issue. Contraceptive sabotage can come from either party. Rape is not the only kind of sexual wrongdoing as pressure not rising to that threshold is a real thing. Not all regretted sex was rape, but a child’s conception shouldn’t come as the black lining on a dark cloud.

If there are questions of consent in the parentage of a child, they shouldn’t be born. Amusingly, my parents informed me that neither of them consented to my conception, as two forms of contraceptive had to fail… and you know, I don’t think I turned out well? Hahaha!


 No.2892053

>>2892047

>Abortion prevents child abuse

Yes, if you kill something you can't abuse it.


 No.2892055

>>2892043

unformed =/= unconscious


 No.2892059

If I could fry an 9 months old baby instantly, without pain and quick, without leaving any traces that a baby existed, while it still resides inside of a womb, I would do it. For reasons not related to abortion.


 No.2892060

File: 9888f8e10a21f70⋯.png (172.76 KB, 580x480, 29:24, 139446020801.png)

>>2892043

A fetus is a literal parasite on the mother's body. She should have autonomy to control whether it's allowed in her. Once a kid is born they're a parasite in a different sense and it's not possible for everyone to deal with that, not to mention a bad situation to be in as the kid.

>>2892046

A lot of people would rather not be born than be born into orphanhood, foster care, a ward of the state, etc. There's no reason to force a shitty existence on someone when the alternative is to not have to exist. As for economic factors, disallowing abortion increases poverty by taking away the ability of poor people in particular to do family planning.

>>2892053

It's funny how people have no problem accepting that reasoning unironically with putting pets out of their misery, but when it comes to an elderly person or an embryo suddenly it's unconscionable.


 No.2892063

>>2892043

>extreme cases where a woman got raped etc.

By your logic you are killing a child just because he was born from a woman that got raped, if according to you a fetus is the same as a person.


 No.2892066

Why should I care about the luxury problems of sexhavers? Abortion policy should by designed in such a way as to make the maximum amount of them unhappy to the largest extent possible.

>2892059

I would do it for myself.

>>2892053

You can literally use the pro-abortion argument for complete antinatalism.


 No.2892068

>A lot of people would rather not be born than be born into

Yes, let's kill everyone preemptively. Can't be unhappy if you are dead.


 No.2892069

>>2892060

>She should have autonomy to control whether it's allowed in her.

Which she does, she chooses not to have sex, have sex with a condom or take the pill/contraception. The reason you see children as parasites is because of the economic predicament of capitalism.

>A lot of people would rather not be born than be born into orphanhood, foster care, a ward of the state, etc.

How do you know? So the alternative is to murder them? If someone is really unhappy with the life of an orphan, I think they should be free to kill themselves, but it's not my choice to go around killing them. For many, a shitty life if better than no life at all.

>It's funny how people have no problem accepting that reasoning unironically with putting pets out of their misery, but when it comes to an elderly person or an embryo suddenly it's unconscionable

Abortion isn't euthanasia. When you euthanize somebody, it's because there is a high chance they'll never wake up from a coma or just be miserable. This isn't the case for a perfectly healthy unborn human being.


 No.2892074

>>2892055

This.

These things are honestly just nuggets that can't feel the terror of what lays behind deathAnimals can't feel this terror either, but they sure as hell can feel sad about leaving (F)


 No.2892075

>>2892063

Yeah you are right. So I'll stand corrected, no abortions for rape victims. However, I believe when it's clear that giving birth would be extremely dangerous and lethal for the mother, the life of the mother should prevail.


 No.2892076

>>2892074(me)

At what stage does proper development start?Just asking for some studies.


 No.2892082

>>2892045

Actually the first world does way more carbon emissions per capita


 No.2892084

>>2892039

>Most people here used to be anti-natalist.

No, anti-natalists generally occupied a minority of users and were for the most part relegated to black-flags


 No.2892085

File: bf7f6bc5f4de6f8⋯.jpg (36.75 KB, 444x455, 444:455, IMG_20190416_113728_318.jpg)

>>2892039 >>2892042 The sad reality is that you can't over-throw a government (that you don't like) with the help of dissatisfied masses if said masses simply never were born. Leftism seeks only, inherently, to lead people into a wretched existence for the sole purpose of self perpetuation. Leftism, in this regard, (like religion) is akin to a disease in need of serious purging.


 No.2892086

>>2892085

Do you have a single fact to back that up.


 No.2892087

>>2892076

Depends on where you draw the line of full sapience, it can be anywhere from like 6 months in the womb to 4 years old to like, first puberty. The societal stance has also changed throughout history and cultures. A lot of people still practice infanticide in India and Africa when it seemed necessary.


 No.2892088

>>2892085

> can't over-throw a government (that you don't like) with the help of dissatisfied masses if said masses simply never were born.

What the fuck does that even mean, even if half of earth's population were to die it wouldn't somehow make a revolution harder to happen.


 No.2892089

>>2892069

>Which she does, she chooses not to have sex, have sex with a condom or take the pill/contraception.

Unless she's raped or contraception fails, which is bound to happen a lot given the population size. In a lot of these places there are bans on contraceptives as well, and either no sexual education or active miseducation.

>The reason you see children as parasites is because of the economic predicament of capitalism.

The reason I see a fetus as a parasite is that it siphons nutrients away from the mother's body and impairs her normal bodily functions the way that a parasite does.

>>A lot of people would rather not be born than be born into orphanhood, foster care, a ward of the state, etc.

>How do you know?

The suicide rate and other indicators for well-being.

>So the alternative is to murder them?

No, it's to prevent their birth.

>If someone is really unhappy with the life of an orphan, I think they should be free to kill themselves, but it's not my choice to go around killing them.

But you think it is your choice to make sure they have to endure it and make that choice themselves.

>For many, a shitty life if better than no life at all.

No life at all is nothing to anybody because they're not there to experience it. A shitty life is shitty.

>Abortion isn't euthanasia.

Abortion is exactly euthanasia.

>When you euthanize somebody, it's because there is a high chance they'll never wake up from a coma or just be miserable.

No, euthanasia is simply ending a life. It can be done for good or bad reasons.

>This isn't the case for a perfectly healthy unborn human being.

Just because the embryo/fetus is healthy (often it isn't) doesn't mean that the child will grow up to be healthy. Abortion/miscarriage is also a natural part of human reproduction. Miscarriages are extremely common, just not something most people want to talk about. And prior to a recognizable pregnancy, the blasocyst that forms from the zygote only has about a 1/8 chance of attaching to the uterine wall and interrupting the menstrual cycle. The overwhelming majority of "human lives" are washed out of a woman's body during her period without her ever knowing they existed. Are uteri mass murderers now?


 No.2892091

>>2892053

It’s not killing at that point. I find your intellectual integrity dubious. This whole thread is really just another reminder that conservatives have no pride or honesty anymore, and will desperately fake anything to preserve cultures dependent on child abuse.

>>2892066

Not really. I’m a “complete antinatalist”, but mostly because I would rather the process be made scientific. Banning abortions seems more likely to deepen extant sexual disinterest among women. If I were incremental antinatalist, I might favor it.

As it is I suspect it’ll increase pressure towards the legalization of prostitution, which I’m okay with.


 No.2892092

>>2892089

>abortion is exactly euthanasia

Okay, so you’re literally willing to lie. Congratulations.


 No.2892095

>>2892092

What is the distinction then?


 No.2892098

>>2892088

If half the population died you'd likely TO facilitate the means for a revolution, but you're arguing oranges in an apple debate.

>>2892086

Yes, it's the reason the USSR never went full communism, nobody seeks their own destruction, not even the collective.


 No.2892101

>>2892089

>>How do you know?

>

>The suicide rate and other indicators for well-being.

This is a terrible argument. There are still those who are happy and glad they are born, and children who nobody wanted to abort who kill themselves.

What gives you the right to kil a population that oversteps some arbitrary barrier of suicide rare? People born into poverty are probably even worse off. Should we kill them, or to use your words, "prevent their births"?


 No.2892102

>>2892098

>it's the reason the USSR never went full communism

Distribution problems, actually.


 No.2892103

File: 1913ac1a62038d1⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 160.48 KB, 618x365, 618:365, image5_1.jpg)

File: 6ee503a050850ff⋯.mp4 (Spoiler Image, 696.67 KB, 360x360, 1:1, abortion.mp4)

People should not get an abotion unless it's absolutely necessary like rape or serious health defects


 No.2892105

>>2892103

God, fetuses are fucking disgusting, fucking kill them.


 No.2892106

>>2892103

ayy lmao


 No.2892108

>>2892101

>There are still those who are happy and glad they are born

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_monster

>What gives you the right to kil a population that oversteps some arbitrary barrier of suicide rare?

I wouldn't be killing anybody. I'd be allowing pregnant women to choose abortion if the situation isn't ideal for children. You seem to be forgetting that having a baby can mean not having a baby at a better time. Forcing women to have kids when they're in a bad situation can prevent the same women from having kids later when they're in a better situation, especially since the cost of raising a kid can prevent them from ever getting to a better situation.

>People born into poverty are probably even worse off. Should we kill them, or to use your words, "prevent their births"?

No, per above we give the mothers the ability to make a call to have kids at the best time for them.


 No.2892117

>>2892101

>Detroit Crime Wave That Never Came

'nuff said, you can't have a revolution if the revolutionaries get aborted.


 No.2892118

File: b7a33c0caa1229d⋯.gif (718.08 KB, 500x277, 500:277, grasping at straws.gif)

>>2892103

>please feel bad for this human-shaped clump of mostly un-differentiated stem cells

Sex dolls are people too I guess.


 No.2892123

>There are unironic anti-natalists in this thread

<At the Pirogov Doctors’ Congress much interest was aroused and a long debate was held on the question of abortions. The report was made by Lichkus, who quoted figures on the exceedingly widespread practice of destroying the foetus in present-day so-called civilised states.

<In New York, 80,000 abortions were performed in one year and there are 36,000 every month in France. In St. Petersburg the percentage of abortions has more than doubled in five years.

<The Pirogov Doctors’ Congress adopted a resolution saying that there should never be any criminal prosecution of a mother for performing an artificial abortion and that doctors should only be prosecuted if the operation is performed for “purposes of gain”.

<In the discussion the majority agreed that abortions should not be punishable, and the question of the so-called neomalthusianism (the use of contraceptives) was naturally touched upon, as was also the social side of the matter. Mr. Vigdorchik, for instance, said, according to the report in Russkoye Slovo, that “contraceptive measures should be welcomed” and Mr. Astrakhan exclaimed, amidst thunderous applause:

<“We have to convince mothers to bear children so that they can be maimed in educational establishments, so that lots can be drawn for them, so that they can be driven to suicide!”

<If the report is true that this exclamation of Mr. Astrakhan’s was greeted with thunderous applause, it is a fact that does not surprise me. The audience was made up of bourgeois, middle and petty bourgeois, who have the psychology of the philistine. What can you expect from them but the most banal liberalism?

<From the point of view of the working class, however, it would hardly be possible to find a more apposite expression of the completely reactionary nature and the ugliness of “social neomalthusianism” than Mr. Astrakhan’s phrase cited above.

<…“Bear children so that they can be maimed”…For that alone? Why not that they should fight better, more unitedly, consciously and resolutely than we are fighting against the present-day conditions of life that are maiming and ruining our generation?

This is the radical difference that distinguishes the psychology of the peasant, handicraftsman, intellectual, the petty bourgeois in general, from that of the proletarian. The petty bourgeois sees and feels that he is heading for ruin, that life is becoming more difficult, that the struggle for existence is ever more ruthless, and that his position and that of his family are becoming more and more hopeless. It is an indisputable fact, and the petty bourgeois protests against it.


 No.2892125

>>2892123

<But how does he protest?

<He protests as the representative of a class that is hopelessly perishing, that despairs of its future, that is depressed and cowardly. There is nothing to be done … if only there were fewer children to suffer our torments and hard toil, our poverty and our humiliation—such is the cry of the petty bourgeois.

<The class-conscious worker is far from holding this point of view. He will not allow his consciousness to be dulled by such cries no matter how sincere and heartfelt they may be. Yes, we workers and the mass of small proprietors lead a life that is filled with unbearable oppression and suffering. Things are harder for our generation than they were for our fathers. But in one respect we are luckier than our fathers. We have begun to learn and are rapidly learning to fight—and to fight not as individuals, as the best of our fathers fought, not for the slogans of bourgeois speechifiers that are alien to us in spirit, but for our slogans, the slogans of our class. We are fighting better than our fathers did. Our children will fight better than we do, and they will be victorious.

<The working class is not perishing, it is growing, becoming stronger, gaining courage, consolidating itself, educating itself and becoming steeled in battle. We are pessimists as far as serfdom, capitalism and petty, production are concerned, but we are ardent optimists in what concerns the working-class movement and its aims. We are already laying the foundation of a new edifice and our children will complete its construction.

<That is the reason—the only reason—why we are unconditionally the enemies of neomalthusianism, suited only to unfeeling and egotistic petty-bourgeois couples, who whisper in scared voices: “God grant we manage somehow by our selves. So much the better if we have no children.”

<It goes without saying that this does not by any means prevent us from demanding the unconditional annulment of all laws against abortions or against the distribution of medical literature on contraceptive measures, etc. Such laws are nothing but the hypocrisy of the ruling classes. These laws do not heal the ulcers of capitalism, they merely turn them into malignant ulcers that are especially painful for the oppressed masses. Freedom for medical propaganda and the protection of the elementary democratic rights of citizens, men and women, are one thing. The social theory of neomalthusianism is quite another. Class-conscious workers will always conduct the most ruthless struggle against attempts to impose that reactionary and cowardly theory on the most progressive and strongest class in modern society, the class that is the best prepared for great changes.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/jun/29.htm


 No.2892128

>>2892105

Like your momma should have killed you then I guess?


 No.2892129

>>2892106

God help your kids if you have any.


 No.2892130

I don’t really come here for integrity. Like all of /pol/, this place is governed by hilariously self-destructive hostility to honesty. It’s a lot of fun to watch people fake up positions! They’re so broken to hatred, they’re no longer willing to think for themselves in any way at all! Truth is, nothing goes the way anyone wants it to, so why not forgive the Creator’s whims? The key to resilience is refusing to yield your playful spirit to liars, claim they left or right, and dwell despite all abuses in a pattern better than it’s said to be.

Positions against abortion express to me a lack of faith. I’ll go so far as to acknowledge that it pushes right up against the line of materialism and the spirit to say this, but I don’t think there’s a distinct experience pattern in a fetus yet. I don’t think they’re conscious and forming memories yet. They’re a person in potential, not a person. As a person in potential, we should prevent potential child abuse; as not a person just yet, we are not yet obligated to prevent their murder. Mandatory abortion would be a violence against the parents, not the unborn child.

The later the threshold someone wants to set for abortion, the more sympathy I have for them. Were it entirely up to me I’d be an unhappy decider! The worst position bans abortion and contraceptives, since that strips all the child abuse protections out.

Lyrics! Inspired by the integrity question, mostly. Do ya’ think this issue is my kryptonite? Well, no matter; I’m nobody. On the internet, nobody knows you’re telling the truth if you claim to be nobody.

Well, I took a walk around the world to ease my troubled mind

I left my body lying somewhere in the sands of time

But I watched the world float to the dark side of the moon

I feel there's nothing I can do, yeah

I watched the world float to the dark side of the moon

After all I knew, it had to be something to do with you

I really don't mind what happens now and then

As long as you'll be my friend at the end

If I go crazy, then will you still call me Superman?

If I'm alive and well, will you be there and holding my hand?

I'll keep you by my side with my superhuman might

Kryptonite

You called me strong, you called me weak

But still your secrets, I will keep

You took for granted all the times, I never let you down

You stumbled in and bumped your head

If not for me then you'd be dead

I picked you up and put you back on solid ground

If I go crazy, then will you still call me Superman?

If I'm alive and well, will you be there and holding my hand?

I'll keep you by my side with my superhuman might

Kryptonite

If I go crazy, then will you still call me Superman?

If I'm alive and well, will you be there holding my hand?

I'll keep you by my side with my superhuman might

Kryptonite, yeah

If I go crazy, then will you still call me Superman?

If I'm alive and well, will you be there and holding my hand?

I'll keep you by my side with my superhuman might

Kryptonite


 No.2892134

>>2892129

the only condition in which I will have children is if the revolution comes about within my lifetime


 No.2892136


 No.2892137

>>2892130

Based schizo poster.


 No.2892139

>>2892138

I'm glad this is the level of discourse we are having.


 No.2892144

Oh, Lenin posting! Perhaps I should apologize. I am the very creature of enmity and dreadfully bourgouis. I do not actually mean to drag down the discourse, I have just seen such terrible threads lately. People still act like nazis in the oh brother country!

Ahem. Lenin-posting. That’s interesting, the growing working class thing. If people want to make this about natalism, the Soviet Union eventually was quite sexless. Why does that happen?

The Soviet Union used some fascinating accumulation patterns. Their famines, disappearances, forcible reallocations, even the gulags, all were used in a rather “neomalthusian” way. They stripped and concentrated resources in a relatively brutal mode, condensing wealth in a deliberate manner, yet by that I do not mean to accuse them of capitalism. They had arguably reasonable and not always corrupted patterns.

People became used to a disempowerment, I think. There was nothing to be done save everything. The nation had so far to grow, so many struggles, and there was never enough of anything. Where the west uses fiscal debt, something like that hung over the Soviet s. They were in debt to The Plan.

As best I understand it, it is debt that holds back reproduction. This abortion question is not it at all!


 No.2892147

A woman has the right to choose what happens to her body


 No.2892151

>>2892085

>for the soul purpose of self perpetuation

>neverborn populous

???


 No.2892154

>>2892137

Nothing to lose but your chains, etc.


 No.2892155

What punishment would a woman who seeks or gets abortion receive? And how do you prevent the conviction of women who miscarry?


 No.2892158

People have the right to get abortions up to the end of the second trimester of pregnancy. After that only in medical emergencies.

It makes no sense to allow children to be born into families that don't want them.


 No.2892167

>>2892034

No they're not.


 No.2892221

>>2892123

>>2892125

Good shit, this is the leftist take.

Make it legal and widespread, but don't take a nihilistic, malthusian approach about it. Reproductive rights are not about "curing" poverty or bringing less "undesirables" to the world, it's about fairness and human dignity.


 No.2892236

>leftists turn in to moralist individualists to defend babies

People are not gonna use protection, protection will fail and people will not have the means to raise children prpoerly. If you wanna go around expecting people to do the perfectly right choice all the time you might as well be a petterson fag.


 No.2892239

>>2892236

fetuses*


 No.2892240

>>2892236

How many leftists are doing that in this thread? most seem pro abortion.


 No.2892241

>defending the rightwing belief that babies are more important than women to own the libs

Jolly good, comrades


 No.2892242

>>2892221

>Reproductive rights are not about "curing" poverty or bringing less "undesirables" to the world, it's about fairness and human dignity.

Well, its more about the fact that banning it does little to nothing to, as Lenin put it, "heal the ulcers of capitalism". Abortion is an unfortunate result of, generally, economic factors. If the reduction of abortions is to be desired, then the actual conditions that perpetuate it must be surpassed.


 No.2892244

>>2892242

Ironically, the soviets though those conditions were already met when they decided to ban abortion a few years after making it legal.

Its restriction was actually portrayed as a fulfillment of Lenin-era policy. To quote one author (Pat Sloan, Soviet Democracy, 1937, pp. 125-126):

>A matter which has raised considerable doubts in the minds of many protagonists of sex-equality in this country is the law, passed in 1936, making abortion illegal except in cases where it is justified by consideration for a woman's health or the danger of hereditary disease. This change in the law has been treated as an attack on sex-equality.

>It is of the greatest importance in this connection, to refer back to the text of the original law which legalised abortion in Soviet Russia in 1921. It is important to note that in this law not a word was said about sex-equality, and the right to have an abortion was never put forward as a fundamental right of the Soviet woman. On the contrary, abortion was treated as a social evil, but an evil which was likely to be less harmful when practised legally than when carried out under conditions of secrecy. Here is part of the text of the original law permitting abortion:

>"During the past decades the number of women resorting to artificial discontinuation of pregnancy has grown both in the West and in this country. The legislation of all countries combats this evil by punishing the woman who chooses to have an abortion and the doctor who performs it. Without leading to favourable results, this method of combating abortion has driven the operation underground and made the woman a victim of mercenary and often ignorant quacks who make a profession of secret operations. As a result, up to 50 per cent of such women are infected in the course of the operation, and up to 4 per cent of them die.

>"The Workers' and Peasants' Government is conscious of this serious evil to the community. It combats this evil by propaganda against abortions among working women. By working for Socialism, and by introducing the protection of maternity and infancy on an extensive scale, it feels assured of achieving the gradual disappearance of this evil. But as moral survivals of the past and the difficult economic conditions of the present still compel many women to resort to this operation. . ." it is allowed in State hospitals.

>The essential feature of this law is that it was based on "difficult economic conditions," and was of a temporary nature. The right to abortion was never introduced as one of the rights of Soviet women, to be enjoyed in all circumstances. It was considered an "evil," and was introduced as a makeshift to combat the serious mortality rate from illegal abortions carried out under unsatisfactory conditions. There is evidence that, at the present time, owing to the increased knowledge of contraceptives on the one hand and the growing sense of economic security on the other, women will not now practise abortion in this way, and that therefore the permissive law is no longer necessary in the interests of health. Abortion in Soviet legislation has always been regarded primarily as a question of health, not of equality. Since thousands of women have been neglecting the use of contraceptives because they could obtain an abortion, the legality of the less satisfactory method of discontinuing pregnancy has actually to some extent prevented more satisfactory methods from being used of avoiding pregnancy altogether.

Needless to say, the notion that Soviet women had no more need to recourse to abortion was erroneous (plenty continued to do so illegally), and abortion was thus relegalized after Stalin's death.


 No.2892249

>>2892240

I can bring up the older threads we've had on this, but we've generally been split on the issue. The most common stances are:

>Don't care

>Abortion should be regarded as a right and is something which is fully within the domain of the carrying mother to varying degrees

>Abortion is bad/unfortunate, but banning it does nothing because abortions will occur regardless if the conditions which incentivize its use continue to exist.

>Abortion is bad, full stop

And the black flag/AnNil take

>Abortion is good, full stop


 No.2892257

>>2892249

Galaxy brain take:

All of the above. It is bad that it is a death that occurs but good that it happens before they become capable of concieving their own mortality.


 No.2892259

File: 9bd7e3f9404ed9b⋯.png (113.09 KB, 224x337, 224:337, this.png)

>>2892060

Holy shit this. Why do people think it's fine to just pass legislation based on individual philosophical interpretations on what "life" is


 No.2892261

>>2892259

As OP in his post makes a personal philosophical interpretation of what life is and then says it so confidently as fact.


 No.2892262

Ban abortion but make it so that we can fuck random strangers and get them prego but don't have to raise the hellspawn.


 No.2892264

>>2892262

no one can "make" you attractive, especially not socialist society. btw you can already abandon children in current society


 No.2892266

>>2892261

Yeah the difference is he's not making legislation based on his interpretation. Pretty big difference actually.


 No.2892271

bye bye baby boons


 No.2892273

>>2892266

Is it? Who am I to say OP is lying or those making legislation are lying? Who is to say that banning abortion was based on their interpretation or statistics? You and them are neither wrong nor right, just personal opinions and that all anything will ever be. If abortion gets banned in Alabama it's because their opinion had stronger support than yours.


 No.2892326

It takes resources to enforce a ban on abortion. Resources are finite. Resources expended punishing abortion aren’t available elsewhere. Performing abortions also expends resources in the same sense, but the existence of a black market demonstrates people will gather those resources themselves. Banning abortion is therefore a source of internal contradiction in the socialist economy, and ought not be legislated.

>2892273

Nothing that happens in Alabama is especially indicative of wisdom. That state could mandate teaching Flat Earth in schools without being shocking.


 No.2892329

the way the world is going with climate change and capitalism it would be inhumane to bring new life to this hellworld.


 No.2892336

There's nothing inherently special about life, unironically.


 No.2892369

>>2892034

This board is infested with nazbols, no shock.


 No.2892371

>>2892053

Correct


 No.2892373

Anyone who isn't an anti natalist isn't a socialist.


 No.2892377

>>2892075

Since youre edge is potentially lethal to your mother lets kill you first


 No.2892380

>>2892075

So where's the line for that?

50% chance of complications? 10%? 1%?

What non-arbitrary level of risk is unacceptable?


 No.2892384

>>2892020

Anyone with a moral opinion on abortion is automatically a shit-faced loser. The fact is that free access to abortion undeniably has a positive effect on the population, while also obviously limiting the growth of that population.

In a socialist society, this should be restricted or allowed contextually depending on the needs of the society.

In a communist society, abortion should be absolutely allowed.

The current machinations of capitalism are not our concern. They need only be studied to further our understanding of the current conditions. Having opinions on whether or not abortion should be allowed under capitalism is reactionary.


 No.2892385

File: 441d267e214a04b⋯.jpg (20.84 KB, 900x600, 3:2, NAZBOL ATTACK.jpg)

>>2892369

I AM NAZBOL

YOU ARE NAZBOL

EVERYONE IS NAZBOL

LMAO SUCK MY NAZBOLLS YOU GAY FUCKING JEW


 No.2892390

>>2892020

There tends to be a bind between "my body, my choice" and abortion which refuting one (ie abortion) refutes the other. While not an American myself, the American health system had been largely a private sector with corporate welfare. Abortion seems to be other business unit to develop in the American medical sector and the debate akin to marketing hype lobbied by American insurance corporations. Within the abortion unit would be found a market to commodify fetal parts some prized by biomedical corporations and conspiracy cults.

Pretty much an astroturfed and lobbied movement by American medical corporations.


 No.2892392

File: 7c62a1f8e095768⋯.jpg (14.27 KB, 242x248, 121:124, Jesus Socialist.jpg)

>>2892391

Fuck off fashie. Jesus would behead you before us.


 No.2892398

>>2892020

We should ban threads on shitty topics like this one.


 No.2892413

>>2892394

Fetuses have lower levels of consciousness than a rat, do you cry every time one of them dies too?


 No.2892465

>>2892385

Nazbol

Nazbol you are a tool

Nazbol

Nazbol the joking fool

Nazbol

Nazbol go back to /pol/


 No.2892470

File: 68e7c3267b72329⋯.jpeg (150.66 KB, 548x500, 137:125, nazbol will RAPE U.jpeg)

>>2892465

NO WAY JEWISH NIGGER

BOTTOM TEXT


 No.2892482

in a capitalist system abortion needs to be legal. imagine raising a bunch of kids in crippling poverty, fucking up their lives and yours more so, because you were a retarded 16 year old or something.

under a communist system there'd be no point, abortion would be a non issue.


 No.2892483

>>2892034

thats not true, are you new


 No.2892485

>>2892482

>under communism abortion would be a non-issue

There's a lot of random issues like this where people assume communism is going to be the utopia with a 100% success rate in every important area. This is untrue, there will always be a chance for contraceptive failure or for something to go wrong.

I personally sit in the camp of suffer not the mutant, assisted suicide, abortion, self-euthanasia, and any form of checking out or preventing future suffering is something I support, because I project my empathy onto the experience, not rigid rules and visceral reactions. Safe to say, /leftypol/ is not anti-abortion like some chucklefucks here are saying. No one idea owns this board, I hope to god it doesn't become /pol/ where they argue the semantics of what it means to be a nazi because they're so bloated with them you won't come to the board if you're not one.


 No.2892486

>>2892482

>retarded 16 year old or something.

<murderers should get away with it because they have not passed an arbitrary age so they can do whatever they want without consequence

If some lucky attractive cunts get to experience teen sex, the very least that should happen is that they are burdened with children, just as nature intended. Why should they be given all the pleasures that are withheld from others and yet do not even have maintain children?

>>2892470

The only response this topic deserves


 No.2892497

>>2892060

>fetus is a parasite

Please stop mordecai, it's not working


 No.2892498

>>2892485

God this tranny again. Leftypol is a 100% anti abortion you stupid fucking tranny. Stop getting duped by shlomos mind control. Abortion is only a malthusian plot to make the working class weaker you worthless ball of fuck

("hello, fellow leftists")

 No.2892502

File: 703759563bf2ccd⋯.png (70.71 KB, 600x857, 600:857, 136147wuyq533w1.png)

>>2892486

>lucky attractive cunts

>pleasures that are withheld from others

Real incel hours


 No.2892518

>>2892486

>If some lucky attractive cunts get to experience teen sex

So some unlucky incel should be stunted by a family that can't support them or worse, a government upbringing, suffering some 25 odd years of hellish existence just so he can spend his last paycheck on animal euthanasia pills and down 300% of the recommended dose in a motel 3 hours away from his hometown? You guys really care about the babies, don't you? If you, as an incel, have ever thought "I wish I was never born", now's your chance to grant that wish for someone else. Just saying.


 No.2892519

File: bcc05cd55b7a097⋯.jpg (99.08 KB, 890x656, 445:328, ignorant.jpg)

>>2892039

>most

It was only like 10 tranny post-left retards with absolutely no life brought here by RedditTrapsurdity and d1x that posted here 24/7 that espoused these views. I guess you were one of them.


 No.2892523

>>2892497

He’s right though. Its a separate organism with its own DNA siphoning resources from its host and also effecting drastic physiological changes within it whether the mother desires the completion of pregnancy or not. The person who controls and allocates the bodys resources should have the choice whether to continue the gestational process.


 No.2892524

>>2892523

>He’s right though. Its a separate organism with its own DNA siphoning resources from its host and also effecting drastic physiological changes within it whether the mother desires the completion of pregnancy or not. The person who controls and allocates the bodys resources should have the choice whether to continue the gestational process.

So, it is alive and therefore is protected by law

Abortion is murder.


 No.2892526

I haven't read the entire thread but isn't this legislation bundled in with essentially the criminalization of contraception as well? From what I understand you can be imprisoned for utilizing a morning after pill, taking hormonal birth control or having an IUD. Once you extend to this it's pretty clear that >>2892026 is 100% right and that there isn't even any debate to be had on it.

The Abolition of Abortion will be achieved once the Working Class has total control over the destinies of their own lives. To forcibly end a practice under Capitalism massively diminishes the ability for women workers to organize alongside men by cleaving a social rift between them and ultimately divides the working class; further immiserating them and preventing them from attaining consciousness and fighting to advance class struggle. Anyone who supports the repeal of anti-reformist reforms is definitionally reactionary because they wish to set the Working Class back and therefore cannot be considered Communists.


 No.2892530

>>2892524

Anything that has cells is living you braindead cunt. Read a biology textbook. Being alive doesn't make and embryo or fetus conscious or possessing of a soul per the christcucks here.


 No.2892533

>>2892530

>Anything that has cells is living you braindead cunt. Read a biology textbook. Being alive doesn't make and embryo or fetus conscious or possessing of a soul per the christcucks here.

consciousness doesn't negate your humanity

abortionists btfo


 No.2892534

>>2892533

I see you're shifting goal posts now. First you argue its alive. Now you argue some arbitrary definition of humanity based on some arbitrary point in the reproductive process when a sperm and egg form a zygote.

How come Sperm and Eggs arent human?? They are also potential humans wtf! Those 100 million sperm in your ejaculate are killed making you a mass murderer daily!


 No.2892536

>>2892534

>I see you're shifting goal posts now. First you argue its alive. Now you argue some arbitrary definition of humanity based on some arbitrary point in the reproductive process when a sperm and egg form a zygote.

what goal posts am I moving?

You just said that a fetus is a live human.

Humans are protected by Law


 No.2892537

>>2892534

<How come Sperm and Eggs arent human?? They are also potential humans wtf! Those 100 million sperm in your ejaculate are killed making you a mass murderer daily!

<I'm losing an argument, must shitpost


 No.2892539

Infanticide and abandonment were widely practiced in the past. Abortion is just a more humane way of doing it. People are spooked af.


 No.2892542

>>2892536

Now your putting words in my mouth. I said its an organism i never said shit about humanity

>>2892537

SEETHING Christ cucks get the bullet. No argument is refuted because you just love screaming bloody murder over the internet to feel self righteous. Both you cunts havent defined humanity


 No.2892543

>>2892542

>Now your putting words in my mouth. I said its an organism i never said shit about humanity

except by it being alive makes it human or what is it? a dog? lol


 No.2892544

>>2892542

>SEETHING Christ cucks get the bullet. No argument is refuted because you just love screaming bloody murder over the internet to feel self righteous. Both you cunts havent defined humanity

<b-but if you're against aboritions you MUST be a christians

the absolute state of abortionists

stay mad


 No.2892547

Abortion is technically murder I guess but the parents should have a choice in doing it


 No.2892548

It is highly morally questionable to do abortions more than 2 weeks post conception, since that is the point when the fetus stops being just a bunch of cells growing out according to genetic instructions since it develops a brain. Even though I am pro abortion, I am not able to justify anything more than 2 weeks (well, 16 days technically if I am not mistaken) time to choose it.

HOWEVER, being anti abortion pre-2 week time is absolutely retarded and basically no different than being anti contraception.

The main thing is the brain. Ask yourself, when do we die? You can have a stroke or receive lethal wounds, be poisoned etc., but the real death comes after your brain stops functioning (either from asphyxiation or trauma). Thus, if our lives end with brain death, it can only start with its creation, meaning a fetus is no more alive than the twitching, decapitated corpse of Maximilian Robespierre (yes, the cells are alive, but they are just that, cells, with no brain to guide them).

Now, the only counter to this would be the fact that the genetic information of the fertilised is special (will result in a unique human being that would not otherwise exist). The problem with this is that the same can be said about the unfertilised eggs and sperm, and since it is medically impossible for us to turn every single one of these into a human being this argument falls flat.


 No.2892553

>>2892548

Women don't even know that they're pregnant until after six weeks


 No.2892554

>>2892543

You just want it to be a human so that you can apply arbitrary man made laws that currently define the termination of humans as “murder” and then scream at people on the internet like an SJW. You are so cucked by the current legal order because it favors your christian emotional “intuition” (in reality hammered into you by your upbringing) that just TELLS you that you are right.

To answer your question though: why is does the “potentiality” to develop into a human make something human? Would the termination of our evolutionary ancestors’ embryos 1 million years ago be murder cause it had the potential to develop into a race of humans? In the present, how about genetic deadends that will develop into infertile or mentally stunted humans? What about the gorillion embryos that will never develop into humans and will only know only ever know embryohood? I can name you a many circumstances where embryos will never make it out of the womb. 1/6 teenage women will miscarry naturally, for example. Ectopic pregnancies will 100% of the time kill the embryo and mother if left to develop. Countless times, twin embryos will die at any point in the gestation process and since often they leave no trace well never truly know how common this phenomenon is. In vitro fertilization to name another phenomenon involves putting many fertilized embryos in typically infertile women in hopes that they will get pregnant with one. This usually results in many man embryos dying for the sake of fertilizing the woman, which is why the Catholic church bans it.

>>2892544

Almost all anti abortionists are christ cucks or crypto christ cucks adopting their exact line of reasoning. The ONLY time western states as early as the 1700s France adopted anti abortion policy was NEVER cause policy makers thought abortion inherently bad but because pro natalist policy was necessary to create a larger pool of males to recruit for standing armies


 No.2892562

>You just want it to be a human so that you can apply arbitrary man made laws that currently define the termination of humans as “murder” and then scream at people on the internet like an SJW.

I don't have to "want it" you admitted it

>You are so cucked by the current legal order because it favors your christian emotional “intuition” (in reality hammered into you by your upbringing) that just TELLS you that you are right.

<I ran out of arguments so I'm going to yell cuck

hello /pol/

>why is does the “potentiality” to develop into a human make something human?

It doesn't have the "potential" to develop into a human. It already is one.

Sperm and eggs have potential a fetus already is.

>In the present, how about genetic deadends that will develop into infertile or mentally stunted humans? What about the gorillion embryos that will never develop into humans and will only know only ever know embryohood?

what about them?

>I can name you a many circumstances where embryos will never make it out of the womb

why would I care

>1/6 teenage women will miscarry naturally, for example. Ectopic pregnancies will 100% of the time kill the embryo and mother if left to develop

Don't be a slut simple as that.


 No.2892563

>>2892554

>Almost all anti abortionists are christ cucks or crypto christ cucks adopting their exact line of reasoning. The ONLY time western states as early as the 1700s France adopted anti abortion policy was NEVER cause policy makers thought abortion inherently bad but because pro natalist policy was necessary to create a larger pool of males to recruit for standing armies

>muh christ cuck

sounds a lot like pagan pol complaining about christians


 No.2892565

Abortion is obviously a societal ill and its minimization is something to be sought after. However, under capitalism anti-abortion legislation only leads to poverty, misery, weakening and division of the working class. A real discussion about abortion can only be had under socialism with developed socialized child care and universal health services. Right now abortion restrictions must be opposed.

The mainstream liberal discourse on abortion is spooked, but so are right-wing incel takes.

>>2892020

>I think it's an important issue to discuss how to connect with the working class that sees abortion as child murder

Proof that it does? Stop sniffing "working class = conservative" memes. Pro-life rhetorics are pushed by petit bourg soccer moms and megachurch billionaires. The working class are the ones having abortions, for entirely obvious reasons.


 No.2892566

>>2892554

>Thus, if our lives end with brain death

Nonsense. Demented people and all sorts of people with impaired brain funciton are either not conscious in a normative sense or simply cannot keep themselves alive on a daily basis without the intensive care of other humans. Children fall in the same category too but they have the highest chance of developing into adulthood. But even then accepted or unaccepted infanticide was quite common everywhere before the 1900s because group well being was more valued than the unformed infant's flourishing


 No.2892567

>>2892563

>deflects by calling his opponent pagan

so this is the power… of religious delusion. I am 100% atheist faggot


 No.2892568

>>2892567

>so this is the power… of religious delusion. I am 100% atheist faggot

same


 No.2892572

>>2892562

>I don't have to "want it" you admitted it

you keep repeating this in hopes that it becomes true. you are either deluded or massively disingenuous

<I ran out of arguments so I'm going to yell cuck

Or rather you cannot handle the banter and are refusing to define what you mean by "human" because you're afraid that i'll refute your arbitrary conception

> It already is one.

You. Have. Not. Proven. ONCE.

I have a very strong feeling you are refusing to argue or define your terms because you have some ulterior religious motive

>what about them?

They are not developing into functional humans who cannot perpetuate humanity. A species is a group of organisms that and reproduce with each other and produce fertile offspring. These do not fit within that category.

>what about them?

they are not human and will never be human.

>why would I care

lmao brainlet

>Don't be a slut simple as that.

christfag confirmed


 No.2892573

100% pro-abortion

100% against shit that creates the need for abortion


 No.2892575

>>2892572

>you keep repeating this in hopes that it becomes true. you are either deluded or massively disingenuous

no you already admitted it

>Or rather you cannot handle the banter and are refusing to define what you mean by "human" because you're afraid that i'll refute your arbitrary conception

ok pol

>You. Have. Not. Proven. ONCE.

Prove your a human

>I have a very strong feeling you are refusing to argue or define your terms because you have some ulterior religious motive

not religious sorry

>They are not developing into functional humans who cannot perpetuate humanity. A species is a group of organisms that and reproduce with each other and produce fertile offspring. These do not fit within that category.

ok and?

>they are not human and will never be human.

ok so?

>lmao brainlet

no u

>christfag confirmed

nope try again


 No.2892577

>>2892573

straight people?


 No.2892578

>>2892572

<if you don't like abortions you're a christfag

lol even as people are moving away from religion we're passing harder anti abortion legislation

abortionists btfo


 No.2892579

>>2892539

>Infanticide and abandonment were widely practiced in the past.

This isn't really an argument


 No.2892581

>>2892575

Don't think you should be calling other people /pol/ when you're pretty obviously a reactionary yourself


 No.2892582

>>2892581

>Don't think you should be calling other people /pol/ when you're pretty obviously a reactionary yourself

<everyone I don't like is reactionary.

No throwing the word cuck around in place of an argument is typical pol


 No.2892583

File: fde5a817e3b7542⋯.jpg (83.01 KB, 744x744, 1:1, fde5a817e3b75423abcd5f19a3….jpg)

wow this thread. yea, maybe in your communist utopia there wouldn't be a need for abortion but that's not happening any time soon, so.


 No.2892584

>>2892575

>no you already admitted it

link the post then.

>ok pol

ad hominem. I'm also guilt of calling you an unashamed faggot but at least I bring some arguments to the table. Again you refuse to define what human is

>Prove your a human

sarcasm isn't an argument

>not religious sorry

you sure think and act like on in practice and have the emotional constitution of one. you are effectively one lmao

>ok and?

you haven't defined humanity but i define humanity as a species and these examples do not fit within the human species because they cannot perpetuate it and, if they have a severe mental impairment will cannot participate in human society except as dependents

>ok so?

Ok so you agree embryos aren't necessarily human? Abortion shouldn't be a problem then

>>2892578

Name me those countries. Every. Single. Country or Region I guarantee that bans abortion has a religious motive. Historically, though, as I've already said, the non-religious motives were purely for economic but moreso military motives which ironically should tell you that pumping out humans to use as cannon fodder on some battle field for some bourgeois politicians' army is quite a miserable existence (Stalin did so as well tbh, but I honestly think that the idea that reproducing humans is essentially a type of currency, given that value derives from labor. A proletarian state needing pro-natalist policies when necessary should be ok in theory)

>>2892579

It is. Our conceptions of humanity are purely based on historical contingency. In the past, humanity for economic reasons was defined in a limited sense. It was made even more limited considering that over 50% of infants died before adulthood and 4% of women over their lifetimes would die from repeated childbirth.


 No.2892585

>>2892573

>100% against shit that creates the need for abortion

Sex or the reproductive system?


 No.2892587

File: 3174a1de25c9612⋯.png (46.81 KB, 758x631, 758:631, 317.png)

>>2892585

You know what he meant, no need to be a smart ass


 No.2892589

>>2892584

>>no you already admitted it

>

>link the post then.

>

>>ok pol

>

>ad hominem. I'm also guilt of calling you an unashamed faggot but at least I bring some arguments to the table. Again you refuse to define what human is

>

>>Prove your a human

>

>sarcasm isn't an argument

>

>>not religious sorry

>

>you sure think and act like on in practice and have the emotional constitution of one. you are effectively one lmao

>

>>ok and?

>

>you haven't defined humanity but i define humanity as a species and these examples do not fit within the human species because they cannot perpetuate it and, if they have a severe mental impairment will cannot participate in human society except as dependents

>

>>ok so?

>

>Ok so you agree embryos aren't necessarily human? Abortion shouldn't be a problem then

None of this are arguments try again


 No.2892590

>>2892589

I can taste your bitter tears on this side of the screen. Thanks for playing


 No.2892592

>>2892584

>Name me those countries

USA is less religion than when Roe V Wade passed yet Alabama just banned abortions

>Every. Single. Country or Region I guarantee that bans abortion has a religious motive.

So?

Hist

>Horically, though, as I've already said, the non-religious motives were purely for economic but moreso military motives which ironically should tell you that pumping out humans to use as cannon fodder on some battle field for some bourgeois politicians' army is quite a miserable existence (Stalin did so as well tbh, but I honestly think that the idea that reproducing humans is essentially a type of currency, given that value derives from labor. A proletarian state needing pro-natalist policies when necessary should be ok in theory)

A proletariat state wouldn't legalize abortion


 No.2892593

>>2892590

>I can taste your bitter tears on this side of the screen. Thanks for playing

>b-but you're just mad

Abortionists btfo


 No.2892597

>>2892592

> yet Alabama just banned abortions

I love how insincerely left our REGION. Yes, states of the US are regions/provinces. Alabama and the deep south are notoriously religious and governed by politicians who represent the religious right. You are taking some general trend and trying to apply is to a particular region where the trend does not apply. You are a brainlet

>A proletariat state wouldn't legalize abortion

Except they all did lmao

>>2892593

you can't argue so now you are just sniping from the sides like a little bitch. Again, thanks for playing


 No.2892599


 No.2892603

>>2892597

>I love how insincerely left our REGION. Yes, states of the US are regions/provinces. Alabama and the deep south are notoriously religious and governed by politicians who represent the religious right. You are taking some general trend and trying to apply is to a particular region where the trend does not apply. You are a brainlet

And? I didn't say they weren't religious.

But why is this happening if progressive values are so strong?

>Except they all did lmao

Oh really where?


 No.2892605

>>2892034

Not in a million years bruv


 No.2892610

>>2892603

>Oh really where?

are you serious? you're ignorance is truly stunning. I got this on google in 2 seconds but anecdotally doctors i've spoken to tell me that eastern european women get a shit ton of abortions (while ironically being against birth control pills because its 'unnatural'), which is obviously a socialist legacy

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/16/news/in-the-former-east-bloc-abortion-remains-norm.html

>And? I didn't say they weren't religious.

I don't know what to say… Are you really unashamed of saying such stupid things? I'm getting the feeling you seriously might be a bot considering how fragmented and outlandish your questions are.

I just told you that the decline of religiosity in the West is a general trend with particular exceptions. First, America is a giant exception to the rule. Second, from 1991 there has been a rising religious reaction, especially in America but also across the world such as in the Middle East most famously, that has baffled sociologists who presumed the secularization was an inevitable side effect of modernizations processes.

>But why is this happening if progressive values are so strong?

This is the same as your previous question. Define "progressive values" by the way. Also just because people can be non religious, does not mean that the religious folks just accept that they are an extinct species. Minorities of all types can mobilize political power way out of proportion to their numbers especially because they can mobilize their particular group to vote while apathetic voters stay home. This is a consistent feature of American politics and liberal democracy in general: apathy toward voting creates a huge opportunity for the most motivated voters to use take power within the system and legislate according to their own view. The Christian Republican right is highly effective at this


 No.2892611

>>2892610

>are you serious? you're ignorance is truly stunning. I got this on google in 2 seconds but anecdotally doctors i've spoken to tell me that eastern european women get a shit ton of abortions (while ironically being against birth control pills because its 'unnatural'), which is obviously a socialist legacy

and that is relevant how?

>I just told you that the decline of religiosity in the West is a general trend with particular exceptions. First, America is a giant exception to the rule. Second, from 1991 there has been a rising religious reaction, especially in America but also across the world such as in the Middle East most famously, that has baffled sociologists who presumed the secularization was an inevitable side effect of modernizations processes.

If religion is declining why is there a resurgence?

your ignorance is astounding

>This is the same as your previous question. Define "progressive values" by the way. Also just because people can be non religious, does not mean that the religious folks just accept that they are an extinct species. Minorities of all types can mobilize political power way out of proportion to their numbers especially because they can mobilize their particular group to vote while apathetic voters stay home. This is a consistent feature of American politics and liberal democracy in general: apathy toward voting creates a huge opportunity for the most motivated voters to use take power within the system and legislate according to their own view. The Christian Republican right is highly effective at this

>religious folk are extinct

>resurgence of religiosity

the cognitive dissonance is amazing here


 No.2892618

>>2892587

:^)

>>2892603

>I didn't say they weren't religious.

Then why did you mention that America wasn't religious and then pivot to Alabama?


 No.2892619

>>2892611

>and that is relevant how?

you just said that socialist states did not have abortion. I just showed you you're wrong.

>If religion is declining why is there a resurgence?

The two coexist you fucking dolt. I just told you there are glaring exceptions to your rule, which you have not proven (please define "decline in religiosity btw, because decline in outward religious worship does not preclude vague notions of spirituality, conspiracy theory and other shit that usually take's Organized religion's place) The decline of religiosity is mostly confined to Western and Eastern Europe, where NO ONE is clamoring to reinstate antiabortion laws. Ireland just months ago finally struck down its anti-abortion laws.

But even there, especially the former socialist bloc, there is a countervailing current of religious resurgence and even there the Religious Right (such as the DUP in Northern Ireland) can leverage their power.

>your ignorance is astounding

I can tell you haven't read a book. Clearly you're a bot though

>religious folk are extinct

I never said that lmao. I said they won't accept extinction, which is a hyperbole anyway because they still have bastions of strength in many states.


 No.2892627

>>2892618

>Then why did you mention that America wasn't religious

I didn't I said they were more religious when abortion was banned


 No.2892628

>>2892619

>you just said that socialist states did not have abortion. I just showed you you're wrong.

no you didn't

>The two coexist you fucking dolt. I just told you there are glaring exceptions to your rule, which you have not proven (please define "decline in religiosity btw, because decline in outward religious worship does not preclude vague notions of spirituality, conspiracy theory and other shit that usually take's Organized religion's place)

<struggling to more contradict yourself

lol

>The decline of religiosity is mostly confined to Western and Eastern Europe, where NO ONE is clamoring to reinstate antiabortion laws. Ireland just months ago finally struck down its anti-abortion laws.

correlation does not = causation

>I can tell you haven't read a book. Clearly you're a bot though

this is just butthurt


 No.2892644

>>2892628

What it boils down to is you being unashamedly reductionist because you cant comprehend the extreme complexity of the modern world. I suspect though you don't really believe your position .At this point you're trying to present a bold front because your stupidity has been exposed. You choose to explain nothing, defend nothing, and constantly resort to pedantry because you are totally devoid of any insight. You dont belong on this board


 No.2892649

>>2892644

>What it boils down to is you being unashamedly reductionist because you cant comprehend the extreme complexity of the modern world. I suspect though you don't really believe your position .At this point you're trying to present a bold front because your stupidity has been exposed. You choose to explain nothing, defend nothing, and constantly resort to pedantry because you are totally devoid of any insight. You dont belong on this board

It boils down to you shitposting when you have no arguments left.

come back with an argument but until then go back to pol


 No.2892651

>>2892518

Anyone who impregnated a teen is a Chad and his son will be similar to him, so he will most likely fuck girls too which will make him not want to kill himself.

My parents were in their late 30s and my life has been shit since I was 12. If anything, babies of older parents should be aborted, not those of young ones.


 No.2892652

>>2892650

>My parents were in their late 30s and my life has been shit since I was 12.

same story more or less, i wish i was aborted tbh.


 No.2892655

>>2892650

Is that what you're reptilian brain is telling you? That I’m /pol/ lmao? Youre rapid shifting of goal posts and your implicit defense of Alabamas abortion laws exposes YOU as the /pol/tard. I suspect several things. 1) several astroturfers in this thread are posing as leftists and puppeteering as leftist prolifers 2) you are a recent /pol/ convert who still desperately clings to his social conservatism or 3) you are a teenager who gravitated toward this board but who is currently a booklet devoid of ideological content except some residual christfaggery from his parents. Maybe your some combo of the three lol


 No.2892657

>>2892652

Yeah me too.

>>2892655

Did you really mean me? This was my first post for hours.


 No.2892660

>>2892657

Nope whoever deleted his post


 No.2892661


 No.2892667

>>2892661

>>2892655

Yeah the none arguments and shitposting is typical of pol

getting butthurt when you run out of arguments

Insisting things like abortions or social liberalism are leftist values proves you know nothing about Leftwing ideology.

Go back to pol until you can learn to properly debate


 No.2892671

>>2892667

Atroturf harder. Never has there once been anti-abortion from the left except on the ground of military utility (Stalin) or economic (Mao) You are a shill in sheep’s clothing. You’re the one trying to shut down debate as though it’s a foregone conclusion that the Left is anti-abortion. This is a tool of a shill or a desperate fool. You have offer ZERO arguments the entire time I’ve talked to you. Every single post has been you shifting goalposts and asking inane questions. I leave if for anons here to decide who is correct


 No.2892675

>>2892671

>Atroturf harder. Never has there once been anti-abortion from the left except on the ground of military utility (Stalin) or economic (Mao) You are a shill in sheep’s clothing.

Yea when your whole population is starving its hard to have a policy to not abort people and maintain a functioning state

>You’re the one trying to shut down debate as though it’s a foregone conclusion that the Left is anti-abortion.

You're just trying to project your views on abortion to the left as a whole and its failing

>This is a tool of a shill or a desperate fool.

<YOU ARE A SHILL YOU ARE A SHILL YOU ARE A SHILL

says the increasily neverous pol tard for the 5th time this thread

>You have offer ZERO arguments the entire time I’ve talked to you. Every single post has been you shifting goalposts and asking inane questions. I leave if for anons here to decide who is correct

no you're the one making none arguments

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.2892679

>>2892675

>Yea when your whole population is starving

Oh Boy. The /pol/tard has finally exposed himself for the anti-communist christfag from /pol/ he really is. I’m not talking to you anymore. Mods, ban this cunt


 No.2892683

>>2892679

>Oh Boy. The /pol/tard has finally exposed himself for the anti-communist christfag from /pol/ he really is. I’m not talking to you anymore. Mods, ban this cunt

you're projecting


 No.2892685

>>2892679

<ban everyone who disagrees with liberal positions


 No.2892686

>>2892671

>>2892655

this guy isn't pol he's obviously reddit


 No.2892688

I think the alabama abortion law is awesome


 No.2892690

>>2892685

>>2892686

>>2892683

>>2892688

>shills (or samefags) dogpile

Lol, try harder


 No.2892699

>>2892690

stay mad liberal


 No.2892703

>>2892699

Ok so tell me. As soon as I expose that you’re anti-communist and anti-Soviet Union, why suddenly do 4 posts in a row attack me? I suspect bots, /pol/ discord trannies, or some pro-life shills who are trying to orchestrate anti-abortion from the Right AND Left. You want us to do your bidding like useful idiots did in Alabama. Well I tell you I will not give an inch to you shills on this board. I know now that every time anti-abortionists rear their heads on this board posting as Leftists, it’s GUARANTEED its a cabal of shills like you spreading your reactionary message across the internet.


 No.2892707

>>2892703

>Ok so tell me. As soon as I expose that you’re anti-communist and anti-Soviet Union

<IF I JUST KEEP SAYING IT ITS TRUE

kinda like how pol talks about jews.

you're the reactionary here

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.2892710

>>2892703

>Well I tell you I will not give an inch to you shills on this board.

but you're shilling liberal abortion policies

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.2892715

>>2892707

Thank you based mods

>>2892710

Abortion policies certainly can be liberal but they don’t have to be. I’ve just said countless times the Socialist Bloc had the most permissive abortion policies ever devised. Do you think that’s a mistake? If so, why?


 No.2892718

File: e56b2ee223930cb⋯.png (111.14 KB, 640x640, 1:1, Thinking_Face_Emoji-Emoji-….png)

>>>2892707 made the post 10 minutes ago

>>>2892675 banned 23 minutes ago

>>>2892707 post seems as if it was made by the same person as >>2892675

Is this ban dodging?


 No.2892719

>>2892715

>Abortion policies certainly can be liberal but they don’t have to be. I’ve just said countless times the Socialist Bloc had the most permissive abortion policies ever devised. Do you think that’s a mistake? If so, why?

They did not legalize abortion because Leftists are pro abortion. The soviet bloc was starving and couldn't even handle their current population.

It was a policy out of desperation nothing more.


 No.2892721

>>2892719

>The soviet bloc was starving and couldn't even handle their current population.

There it is again…. Why do you keep exposing yourself? Except for limited periods in 20th century history Socialist countries fed their populations just fine. You are showing that you know nothing of the history


 No.2892723

>>2892721

Also desperation out of what? The Eastern bloc countries weren’t overpopulated by any means


 No.2892724

>>2892721

>There it is again…. Why do you keep exposing yourself?

<If i keep repeating this it will become true.

Sounds like you're deflecting away from your obviously pol leanings

>Except for limited periods in 20th century history Socialist countries fed their populations just fine. You are showing that you know nothing of the history

and they had legal abortion for a limited amount of time


 No.2892726

>>2892723

>Also desperation out of what? The Eastern bloc countries weren’t overpopulated by any means

lack of food


 No.2892730

>>2892726

Babies eat breast milk


 No.2892731

All abortions are unfortunate, but women should be allowed to make that choice unless you don't consider women to be full functioning human beings (which of course is the christian and muslim take on women and why they prohibit abortion).

From a lefty point of view the best a society can do is make sure woman and families are well supported if they have kids and thus the decision to have kids is emotional and functional and not a purely financial decision as is often the case now.


 No.2892732

>>2892730

I eat your moms breast milk


 No.2892735

>>2892731

>All abortions are unfortunate, but women should be allowed to make that choice unless you don't consider women to be full functioning human beings (which of course is the christian and muslim take on women and why they prohibit abortion).

Women should not be allowed to abort. The only thing you are doing is limiting the numbers of proletariat and decreasing the chance of revolution


 No.2892737

>>2892735

Pronatalist Accelerationism… has someone coined the term yet?


 No.2892741

>>2892737

>Pronatalist Accelerationism… has someone coined the term yet?

Not any of those guys but I am working on a modern day Leftcon theory and that does sound something I could incorporate


 No.2892746

>>2892147

Then dont make other people pay for your fucking choice.


 No.2892770

The more abortions the better. Every child saved from having to grow up in a world of climate change apocalypse is a good deed.


 No.2892778

>>2892746

Other people will pay infinetely more if the woman give birth to an unwanted child that will grow up to become a complete fuck up.


 No.2892799

>>2892746

I would rather pay for an abortion than to pay for 18 years at an orphanage, a lifetime supply of methadone and SSRIs, then grocery money


 No.2892823

File: a25afd94e71e3cc⋯.jpg (24.94 KB, 277x327, 277:327, 1387431809978.jpg)

>FBI out in force ITT

Outlawing abortion basically makes women tenants in their own bodies, with the fetus as landlord. You picked possibly the stupidest issue to astroturf you fucktards.


 No.2892828

>>2892735

Having kids in practice puts more pressure on parents to spend money and werk hard to have money to spend. Having more kids is being a gud prole. Not having kids is itself an act of resistance.


 No.2892834

Under capitalism, everything is a for-profit industry, including abortion

>Abortion providers spent more than $1.6 billion in U.S. tax dollars over a three-year period, according to a report released last week by the Government Accountability Office.

>>2892746

>>2892799

We should make the parents pay for it.

>>2892828

>upper-class first worlders are the real revolutionaries


 No.2892835

>>2892834

by which I mean that there will obviously be massive shilling, both by professionals and useful idiots


 No.2892842

>>2892828

>Having kids in practice puts more pressure on parents to spend money and werk hard to have money to spend.

The goal of leftists is to build socialism not live comfy lives under capitalism

>Having more kids is being a gud prole. Not having kids is itself an act of resistance.

Having kids raising future proletarians

Only the mass line can over throw capitalism


 No.2892845

>>2892835

You do realize that also apply to anti abortion right?


 No.2892849

>>2892845

Nobody is getting paid for not doing abortions or selling products to not abort


 No.2892850

>>2892842

>Having kids raising future proletarians

In practice unplanned parenthood creates mostly Lumpens who side more often than not with the reactionnaries when the time comes.


 No.2892852

>>2892850

>In practice unplanned parenthood creates mostly Lumpens who side more often than not with the reactionnaries when the time comes.

do you have proof of this?


 No.2892868

>>2892852

Have you proofs for >>2892842?


 No.2892871

File: 2cf8f565950bcd9⋯.png (218.93 KB, 750x871, 750:871, 2cf8f565950bcd9cf18d87e375….png)

>>2892849

>Nobody get paid by selling products to kids


 No.2892895

>>2892868

there is a difference between theory and you stating something you just made up.


 No.2892906

>>2892871

There are a lot of reactionaries sinking funding into having abortion banned probably more than abortion doctors are doing the opposite


 No.2892909

>>2892871

the relative amount of kids barely changes with abortion, meanwhile abortion clinics and medicament rely 100% on abortion

>>2892906

feels>reals

profit incentive is what triumphs and there is plenty of money to be milked from the gubmint while being praised by liberals like you


 No.2892921

>>2892895

>the relative amount of kids barely changes with abortion, meanwhile abortion clinics and medicament rely 100% on abortion

But somehow, this barely changing amount is supposed to zerg rush capitalists right?

Furthermore, Religious congregations of all kind

have an interest in having more gullible fidels which you can recruit more easily from low socio economic background, in other words, from the population who are the more likely to abort.

>>2892895

Your claim was no more substantiated than mine. Calling your statment theory is not enough to make it so.


 No.2892924

>>2892921

>But somehow, this barely changing amount is supposed to zerg rush capitalists right?

decreasing the number of proletariat isn't going to help

>have an interest in having more gullible fidels which you can recruit more easily from low socio economic background, in other words, from the population who are the more likely to abort.

there is only 2 classes m8


 No.2892960

>>2892909

>decreasing the number of proletariat isn't going to help

If the amount doesn't change much overall, then the effect is neglectible in both way, increase as well of decrease.

If you really care about socialism, you would be focused on spreading class consciousness to the one who're born anyway rather than crying over what could have potentially have been.

>there is only 2 classes m8

>The proletariat and the bourgeoisies are homogenous blocks

"no"


 No.2893100

>>2892091

>Banning abortions seems more likely to deepen extant sexual disinterest among women.

yes

>>2892069

>So the alternative is to murder them?

yes

>>2892069

>The reason you see children as parasites is because of the economic predicament of capitalism.

yes

>>2892024

>everyone who has sex should be punished with children

this is what republicans actually believe. They think that protestant work ethic and desert scarcity patriarchal religion is the key to life. Poor people deserve to die for not controlling their lust and children born out of wedlock are gods punishment for not following his law and they should cull the sinners etc. People keep pointing out that "fascist white men" voted for the bill but without noticing that there are plenty of rich white women in favor of abortion restriction to punish poor men and women of any color. They don't see it as causing crime or social unrest but a necessary upholding and administration of gods law to punish deviation from his commandants. Scarcity is taken as fact rather than artificially created by their minority ownership of resources, the fact that they were born wealthy is assumed evidence of their own infallible virtue and others lack as personal flaw in merit or a unredeemable tainted soul.


 No.2893137

>>2892034

lol no, it's just a handful of recent /pol/ converts like you that get bend out of shape of this shit.


 No.2893170

>>2893137

Not that anon, but this has always been a hot topic issue with no general concensus

Just even going back through the archive:

https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/2343982.html

https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/2445039.html

https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/2485229.html

https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/2445039.html

https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/2666436.html

We have never been in full agreement on any position on this. Most will support the providing of abortion, but the limits to such and the reason for vary widely and always has.


 No.2893180

>>2893100

>People keep pointing out that "fascist white men" voted for the bill but without noticing that there are plenty of rich white women in favor of abortion restriction to punish poor men and women of any color

Wait, they're going to punish blacks by…letting more black children get born?


 No.2893188

>>2893180

>Implying that spreading ones own kind is all there is to life

Thing is, as wonderful as childbirth may seem, in our society, especially for the underprivileged, it is a fucking Sisyphus stone that screws ones life over immensely


 No.2893191

>>2893180

Babies are expensive retard


 No.2893192

>>2893188

>demographically owning yourself to own the…blacks?


 No.2893194

>>2893191

>poor decision-making is expensive

Stop the presses!


 No.2893204

>>2893192

Why did your mind instantly jumped to blacks? The guy before clearly stated it was to fuck over the poor, whites and coloureds alike.


 No.2893242

File: a63ea365de43408⋯.jpg (366.21 KB, 1536x2048, 3:4, entirely resaonable hospit….jpg)

File: 9d3ea86d6d055a9⋯.jpg (15.28 KB, 191x300, 191:300, hospital charges.jpg)

File: b6739a5ee2a8984⋯.jpeg (113.57 KB, 894x960, 149:160, hospitalbill1.jpeg)

File: d7d718fdf955b5e⋯.png (694.11 KB, 593x960, 593:960, debt.png)

The recent anti-abortion bills are open class warfare against the poor in an attempt to trap them in massive debt in the US' absolutely fucking insane healthcare costs and then trap them further in the costs of having a child so that they can attempt to subjugate the american lower and even middle classes for getting uppity.

Look at these bills. This is just the cost to HAVE a baby. Then how much are the many companies that make baby and kids products going to make for another 10 years after that?

ANTI ABORTION IS ANTI-WORKER


 No.2893245

>>2893242

>The fucking bills

Explain to me how burgers are ok with those. How can somebody see that and not think that something should be done? Are Americans this brainwashed to tolerate it?


 No.2893247

>>2893245

"shouldn't have had a kid abstinence is the only safe choice"


 No.2893253

>>2892020

i've always been pro-choice. but after watching the antics of western feminists the last few years i've been reconsidering just cause it would piss them off.

>>2892043

a person in a coma or sleeping is a person already, with a life, thoughts, desires, loved ones, etc. they're just hibernating at the moment. a fetus is not yet a person in any meaningful sense and doesn't have any of those things. Nobody gives a shit about "human life" as such. Your hair is human life but nobody gives it rights or cares if you chop it off. We care about human beings, not "human life", and when thought about carefully and non-magically, we care about human beings for reasons that don't apply to an embryo.


 No.2893255

>>2893242

I have no problem with abortion from a practical point of view (as in, banning abortions would do little to stop the conditions which allow for and incentivize abortions), but can we not do this shit where we just jump straight onto the other side and pretend that abortion for liberals isn't just neo-malthusian garbage that attempts to alleviate poverty by just saying "have less kids, kids are expensive, if you have one it could destroy your life, etc." without actually making ANY attempt to reduce the cost of having children or raising a family in the slightest? I know this is going to sound like "lol both sides" crap, but both sides have backers and interests who want their respective position to play out, because financially it would be beneficial to them. Abortion in America is as much an industry as those pushing for births to increase consumption and BOTH target the poorest workers. Hell, most markets aren't even tailored to large families anymore, it isn't like such a thing has crippled the market in any way and if anything the opposite has occured in regards to some products and services.


 No.2893257

>>2893255

>dude why can't capitalism just make everything cheaper

>while in the middle of a wave of reactionary class warfare


 No.2893259

>>2893257

But he's not wrong. A lot of the pro-abortion types operate with an implicitly neo-Malthusian understanding that abortions are necessary because "poorfags can't afford kids", without any further thought (except for the usual low-effort dunks on christians because "heh, you don't want abortions but you haven't adopted ten foster children? hypocrite much?")


 No.2893262

>>2893257

>dude why can't capitalism just make everything cheaper

What? Where did I imply that?

>while in the middle of a wave of reactionary class warfare

It's always been class warfare, my problem is that instead of people pushing for solutions instead it's just people accepting the cost of living whole sale as the only reality. Again, I'm not against abortion, but I am against how this whole shit is framed.


 No.2893263

>>2893259

Not arguing that, though I admit I was being a bit facetious in that last one.

All I'm talking about in my post is strictly this particular setup is active, intentional class warfare against the poor. If liberals bothered to think about things like why "poorfags can't afford kids" they wouldn't be liberals.


 No.2893265

File: 0f952e631163902⋯.gif (902.99 KB, 500x270, 50:27, giphy.gif)

>>2893263

>If liberals bothered to think about things like why "poorfags can't afford kids" they wouldn't be liberals.


 No.2893303

>>2892034

i doubt the change in bo changed the core population so fast that the board turned reacti-

<see the thread devovle into reddit american tier discussion on abortion

wtf, just kill thread and ban the retarded reactionnaries.

BO was right all along


 No.2893321

>>2892020

>What is /leftypol/'s stance on abortion?

If the kid is going to have down syndrome, or a genetic disorder, abortion should be mandatory.


 No.2893322

ABORT THE BABIES BUT ALSO ABORT THEIR WHORE MOTHERS

BY BYE LUMPENS


 No.2893412

>>2893204

>Why did your mind instantly jumped to blacks? The guy before clearly stated it was to fuck over the poor, whites and coloureds alike.

because blacks are over represented in abortions


 No.2893413

>>2893242

>The recent anti-abortion bills are open class warfare against the poor in an attempt to trap them in massive debt in the US' absolutely fucking insane healthcare costs and then trap them further in the costs of having a child so that they can attempt to subjugate the american lower and even middle classes for getting uppity.

Its anti worker to promote the killing of future workers.

>Look at these bills. This is just the cost to HAVE a baby. Then how much are the many companies that make baby and kids products going to make for another 10 years after that?

don't have unprotected sex its that easy

Abortion is anti worker


 No.2893419


 No.2893420

File: bae0bca211bfc63⋯.jpg (16.26 KB, 552x290, 276:145, DThv3hZVwAEQOcC.jpg)


 No.2893424

>>2893245

abject subservience


 No.2893425

>>2893245

>Explain to me how burgers are ok with those. How can somebody see that and not think that something should be done? Are Americans this brainwashed to tolerate it?

No one pays this out of pocket.

Hospitals charge insane prices because either you're covered through insurance or government healthcare


 No.2893432

>>2893413

>as soon as a zygote is formed its human

Hmmmm. Also, people get pregnant with condoms on occasion, and the Religious Right attacks access to birth control and IUDs. So fuck you and your libertarian “muh individual responsibility” shilling


 No.2893433

>>2893413

>Its anti worker to promote the killing of future workers.

Nah, it's based and communist becouse rich people abort their future failsons and faildaughters too :^)

In all seriousness it is neither pro or anti worker, it concerns everyone equally, at least in theory (because capitalism can and will fuck with every single aspect of human life)

>don't have unprotected sex its that easy

This is almost as ignorant as saying "learn to code". Yes, you fucked up for not using protection (and yes, learning to code is one of the safest ways to secure your future), but not everyone will do it, and they may suffer immensely for it (also protection sometimes fails or parents realise they can't afford the child after they choose to have one). Same with coding, not everyone can do it and some choose proffesions that they find more interesting to them. Saying that people deserve to get their lives fucked over this is just cruel


 No.2893435

>>2893432

>Hmmmm. Also, people get pregnant with condoms on occasion, and the Religious Right attacks access to birth control and IUDs.

And? condoms are 99% effective so they're either lying or retarded.

>So fuck you and your libertarian “muh individual responsibility” shilling

lol butthurt


 No.2893437

>>2893433

>Nah, it's based and communist becouse rich people abort their future failsons and faildaughters too :^)

rich people don't have unwanted kids :^)

>In all seriousness it is neither pro or anti worker, it concerns everyone equally, at least in theory (because capitalism can and will fuck with every single aspect of human life)

Killing proletariat is not good practice.

>This is almost as ignorant as saying "learn to code"

<Things that make me mad are ignent!

no you are ignorant

>Yes, you fucked up for not using protection (and yes, learning to code is one of the safest ways to secure your future), but not everyone will do it,

why is this "not everyone" meme treated like an argument? Its not sorry.

>and they may suffer immensely for it (also protection sometimes fails or parents realise they can't afford the child after they choose to have one). Same with coding, not everyone can do it and some choose proffesions that they find more interesting to them. Saying that people deserve to get their lives fucked over this is just cruel

this is again not an argument.


 No.2893443

>>2893432

Fuck you and you hedonistic “I should be allowed to slut it out without consequence”

>t concerns everyone equally

No, the rich barely conceive, the poorer people are, the more they reproduce.

>This is almost as ignorant as saying "learn to code"

lmao. It takes concerted effort to learn to code, getting creampied takes concerted effort to do. You literally need to do nothing to not get pregnant.

>and they may suffer immensely for it

They should. They got to have sex, it’s only just that there is an equalizer.


 No.2893449

Remind me why they should not be allowed to slut it up and just get rid of it without moralizing about muh chilluns.


 No.2893459

>>2893449

>Remind me why they should not be allowed to slut it up and just get rid of it without moralizing about muh chilluns.

why shouldn't the bourgeois be allowed to exploit their workers without moralizing it about muh surplus value


 No.2893463

>>2893449

because fun should be equally distributed


 No.2893464

>>2893459

Good now give me an actually appropriate analogy.


 No.2893466

>>2893443

Yeah fuck you too. The next time you get in a car crash you should be deprived medical care you irresponsible cunt because driving is a hedonistic activity whose risks you should've known


 No.2893470

>>2893466

Jokes on you, I can't afford a car. I agree with not helping car driving """victims""", cars are bourgeois, there should only be trains.


 No.2893472

>>2893435

Holy shit you're retarded. Look up the statistics. Condoms are 85% effective in practice. Funny enough fucking without a condom and using the pulling out method in a skillful manner is also about 85%. You are a stupid cunt and you still havent answered why people shouldnt be allowed birth control pills, day after pills, and IUDs (answer: youre a christfag shill)


 No.2893473

>>2893470

Doesn't matter, every time you injure yourself you should be deprived care because not only are you a slouching brainlet but because all injuries are the consequences of individual choices


 No.2893474

>>2893435

>>2893437

>Rich people don't have unwanted kids

Can you actually base this generalisation in any way? Sure, it is likely less then for the underprivileged, but still I can guarantee they still have them (even if only for their brainlet offspring misadventures)

>99℅ thing

You realise that 1% fail chance is quite high right? Not to mention that the real protection rating is around 80% because of misuse. Even if it was 1% it is big. How many people have sex per day in US? 10k maybe? More perhaps? If they all used condoms, that would result in 100 failed ones, likely resulting in about 30+ pregnancies.

Also you assume that aborting a baby of underprivileged parents = 1 lost prole. But in reality quite a few of them will simply die young or turn to crime from shitty social conditions


 No.2893476

>>2893472

>Holy shit you're retarded. Look up the statistics. Condoms are 85% effective in practice. Funny enough fucking without a condom and using the pulling out method in a skillful manner is also about 85%.

source

>You are a stupid cunt and you still havent answered why people shouldnt be allowed birth control pills, day after pills, and IUDs (answer: youre a christfag shill)

maybe because I didn't say people shouldn't be allowed birth control pills, day after pills, and IUDs?

lmao

wow you're dumb


 No.2893478

>>2893473

Having sex is a choice, you need to put active effort into it. Your "the dick just accidentally fell in" excuse convinces nobody.


 No.2893479

>>2893459

>why shouldn't the bourgeois be allowed to exploit their workers without moralizing it about muh surplus value

Because opposition to the bourgeois is not uphold on moral grounds? If you're a Marxist that is.


 No.2893480

>>2893474

>Can you actually base this generalisation in any way? Sure, it is likely less then for the underprivileged,

Why would they? Even if abortion was banned outright they could just fly to another country to get it taken care of.

There is no logical way a rich person would have an unwanted kid.

>but still I can guarantee they still have them (even if only for their brainlet offspring misadventures)

no you can't


 No.2893481

>>2893413

"just go into debt for the rest of your life to make another slave who's going to almost certainly inherit debt and poverty"


 No.2893483

>>2893479

>Because opposition to the bourgeois is not uphold on moral grounds? If you're a Marxist that is.

and neither is abortion :^)


 No.2893484

>>2893478

So is jacking off. The next time you sprain your hand you shouldnt go to the doctor


 No.2893485

>>2893481

>"just go into debt for the rest of your life to make another slave who's going to almost certainly inherit debt and poverty"

"kill the proletariat"

I always wonder why upper class whites who larp as ancoms hate the working class so much


 No.2893486

>>2893474

>You realise that 1% fail chance is quite high right? Not to mention that the real protection rating is around 80% because of misuse. Even if it was 1% it is big. How many people have sex per day in US? 10k maybe? More perhaps?

do you have ANY evidence for this

>If they all used condoms, that would result in 100 failed ones, likely resulting in about 30+ pregnancies.

and?


 No.2893488

>>2893485

They are neomalthusians, the same who are concerned for the environment so they tell us to kill the poor.


 No.2893489

>>2893483

>and neither is abortion

So far the only non moral argument i've seen in opposition to abortion here is the claim that proles must shit up proles to outnumber capitalists, which seem a very brainlet strategy on par with "voting for the far right will bring the revolution"


 No.2893490

File: 1e4d1b90bde563a⋯.png (269.44 KB, 750x1334, 375:667, 8C6442ED-5153-43DF-9D80-8C….png)

File: 0acbba3eaf6abc3⋯.png (271.39 KB, 750x1334, 375:667, A2627F99-2D8D-4A7C-AF55-AB….png)

>>2893476

Took me 2 seconds. Pulling out is higher


 No.2893491

>>2893490

ok i was wrong they're 98% effective


 No.2893492

>>2893491

It doesn't matter, it is the duty of the precipitants to prevent pregnancy if they so wish. But really, they have to honour the social contract that demands of them to produce new workers. The first world is literally dying out, who is going to pay for them when they are old? they want to have all the benefits yet bear none of the responsibility associated with them. The are nihilistic hedonists.


 No.2893493

>>2893489

But all arguments FOR abortions are moral arguments


 No.2893496

>>2893491

>when used perfectly

Damn you really are special. Its 85% in practice retard. This is the real statistic effectively. Pulling out is 96% effective if used “perfectly” too but is only 80% effective in practice.

But i reject your premise entirely because your entire premise is that people should “pay” for having sex in a nonperfect manner by spending the next 20-30 years raising a child and giving up autonomy. Its the thinking of a Christfag or an Incel Revanchism of the stupidest kind. At least promote free state issued GFs or prostitutes not some draconian punishment for women for having a womb and having the ability to get pregnant. Abortion is desirable if all methods fail


 No.2893497

>>2893492

>It doesn't matter

"Condoms are 85% effective"

"do you have a source"

"here!"

"your source says 98%"

"that doesn't matter

wew lad.


 No.2893500

>>2893497

not him you genius


 No.2893504

>>2893485

>>2893488

I think I get it now, you brainlets aren't some kind of christfags or /pol/yps, you just believe that everything is some kind of ploy by porky, the same way nazies blame the jews for everything. Women just want birth rights, simple as that. And having to buy paper bags to collect dogshit isn't a ploy to put prole dog owners further into debt, people just don't want it lying around. Not everything is class warfare.


 No.2893506

>>2893496

>Damn you really are special. Its 85% in practice retard. This is the real statistic effectively. Pulling out is 96% effective if used “perfectly” too but is only 80% effective in practice.

so if you're too dumb to use a condom properly why are you using it

>But i reject your premise entirely because your entire premise

not an argument

>Its the thinking of a Christfag or an Incel Revanchism of the stupidest kind. At least promote free state issued GFs or prostitutes not some draconian punishment for women for having a womb and having the ability to get pregnant. Abortion is desirable if all methods fail

<its draconian because I don't like it

reels>feels

There is no argument for abortion that isn't just moralizing and butthurt over being an idiot in regards to sex.


 No.2893510

>LEL ARE PEOPLE TOO STUPID TO USE CONTRACEPTIVES PROPERLY?? LEL CRIMINALIZE ABORTION BECAUSE THEY'RE DUMB LEL

actual brainlets


 No.2893512

File: cd2af09333ec05b⋯.jpg (176.93 KB, 623x702, 623:702, 1539675926663.jpg)

Ban abortion, ban sex, ban porn. G'night everybody.


 No.2893513

File: e111dc62be712c5⋯.jpg (83.17 KB, 536x547, 536:547, 235634876.jpg)

>>2893493

>But all arguments FOR abortions are moral arguments

Until socialism kicks in, i'm a just a average taxpayer in my capitalist country, so women preventing the birth of children they know they won't be able to raise properly alleviate what i owe to the state by avoiding lots of potential welfare or prison expenses.

Not to mention the tinier is the reserve army of labor, the more likely i won't be fired when i'll get deemed to close to retirement.


 No.2893514

>>2893513

>Until socialism kicks in, i'm a just a average taxpayer in my capitalist country, so women preventing the birth of children they know they won't be able to raise properly alleviate what i owe to the state by avoiding lots of potential welfare or prison expenses.

>

>Not to mention the tinier is the reserve army of labor, the more likely i won't be fired when i'll get deemed to close to retirement.

The goal of marxists is to build socialism not live a comfy live under capitalism.

killing the proletariat is bad practice.


 No.2893515

>>2893506

<its draconian because I don't like it

Based. I now decree that every time you cum you enter automatically into a mandatory 20 year labor contract to cool and clean my house. Thank you comrade!

And on the contrary your arguments are pure moralism of the highest order. Since sexual pleasure should be punished with children in your book you want to ban abortion. I on the other hand do not kill if some ball of cells is shit out in its first weeks of life. Hell i dont give a shit about late term abortions either, ive performed thousands of them at this point lmao


 No.2893516

>>2893510

>actual brainlets

nah the ones who ''accidentally' get creampied are

>Women just want birth rights

porkies just want birth rights, simple as that


 No.2893517

>>2893515

Do not care*


 No.2893518

*property rights


 No.2893520

political incels are useless. gas them all.


 No.2893521

>A man puts his penis in a woman without her consent

<a woman should be able to defend herself with lethal force!

>A man puts his whole body in a woman without her consent

<waaaah!!! Think of the children

The absolute state of /pol/


 No.2893522

>>2893485

There is no reason to presume that we need to try to protect each member of the proletariat.

Point to me to a single point in history when a shortage of the laboring class has been a bad thing in the course of class warfare.


 No.2893523

File: 0a9b42690109992⋯.jpg (63.18 KB, 1200x1024, 75:64, 1498097911968.jpg)

>>2893515

>>2893516

>>2893517

>>2893518

>People

>Having rights

Yikes, I bet you think socialism and not complete extermination is the next stage after capitalism.


 No.2893524

>>2893521

>A man puts his whole body in a woman without her consent

Is this a vore joke


 No.2893527

>>2893516

So which is it? Do porkies never have unwanted children or do they want birth rights?

Also you are a fucking dipshit if you unironically think that all porkies are some kind of homogeneous blob with unified will, they are just idiotic slaves to the system they themselves created. As I said before, it is a folly to become like the nazies with jews and start blaming all on porkies


 No.2893529

>>2893514

>moving the goalposts


 No.2893530


 No.2893531

>>2893521

not to mention men who mess with women's birth control to get to them pregnant in order to lock them in abusive relationships but i'm sure agoraphobic anons are certain that never happens


 No.2893532


 No.2893533

>>2893522

>Point to me to a single point in history when a shortage of the laboring class has been a bad thing in the course of class warfare.

this is almost asking like proving a negative.

You can look at failed revolutions that have been suppressed. If there were more people on the side of the communists they might have been successful.

Also on the inverse how is abortion helping build socialism? I'll wait


 No.2893535

>>2893529

what goal posts retard


 No.2893536

>>2893531

>not to mention men who mess with women's birth control to get to them pregnant in order to lock them in abusive relationships but i'm sure agoraphobic anons are certain that never happens

this is a myth


 No.2893537

>>2893535

On the soccer field you jackass


 No.2893539

>>2893536

>i'm sure agoraphobic anons are certain that never happens


 No.2893540

>>2893531

It was still her fault for not finding a good enough man. Her fault for being stupid as it would be if she was unprotected to begin with.


 No.2893541

File: a477e02655caacd⋯.jpg (9.92 KB, 259x194, 259:194, muhbeliefs.jpg)

>>2893540

t. incel


 No.2893543

>>2893531

She chose to have sex with him. if he is breaking the law, she should go to the courts and not kill valuable potential workers for her selfish gain.


 No.2893545

why must /pol/ lurkers infest this place with unfunny nonsense? why not watch a movie instead?


 No.2893546

>>2893490

Btw guys im not saying dont use condoms cause you dont want STDs they suck


 No.2893549

>>2893545

<people disgree with me so they must be pol!

I'm not the pro abortion guy but leftypol's paranoia with pol is astounding


 No.2893550

File: 2e316d67f048c70⋯.gif (459.58 KB, 500x366, 250:183, 1512592766390.gif)

>>2893541

t. assumptive


 No.2893551

>everyone I don't like is pol

why must /r/TwoXChromosomes lurkers infest this place with unfunny nonsense? why not watch a movie instead?


 No.2893552

>>2893543

Based. We should actually implant was many embryoes as possible in this broodmare’s womb because all of her uterine capacity should be dedicated to making surplus workers. This is true proletarian science


 No.2893554

>>2893549

it's obvious that the ones saying they're anti-abortion because it's killing the next gen of proles are fucking around


 No.2893555

>>2893549

Hi /pol/


 No.2893556

>>2893552

That's not her choice tho


 No.2893557

File: d7d718fdf955b5e⋯.png (694.11 KB, 593x960, 593:960, debt.png)

>>2893533

Because having kids in the US is literally a massive debt trap that forces workers to focus on dedicating attention and labor to raising their child (not to mention creating a point of emotional vulnerability to be exploited) that could instead be pushed towards demanding a better life and building class consciousness for a revolutionary movement. Having kids sucks up your time and attention and it just doubles down on the attention and energy drain that is working.


 No.2893558

>>2893546

I guess a whore like you would know. Thank you for increasing antibiotics resistance to not have to deal with the consequences of your hedonism resistance by the way that others who are innocent actually needed to not fucking die.


 No.2893560

>>2893556

Yes it is she already made a choice to get creampied by her abusive boyfriend. Now that she has has been implanted we need to use the rest of her fertile womb to nurture as many proletariats as possible. What harm is a few more in the mix?


 No.2893562

>>2893558

Well actually i fuck prostitutes with condoms and i dont have any STDs so i wouldnt know what youre talking about, bitter incel.


 No.2893563

>>2893560

If we have that level of technology we could just overthrow the bourgeoisie and be done with it, so that's unnecessary. She gets what she directly involved herself in.


 No.2893564

>Because having kids in the US is literally a massive debt trap that forces workers to focus on dedicating attention and labor to raising their child (not to mention creating a point of emotional vulnerability to be exploited) that could instead be pushed towards demanding a better life and building class consciousness for a revolutionary movement. Having kids sucks up your time and attention and it just doubles down on the attention and energy drain that is working.

The goal of Communists is the build communism not live comfy lives under capitalism.

I can understand not wanting to be in debt but your thought process breeds apathy.

This reeks of malthusianism


 No.2893566

>>2893563

Causation =! Correlation comrade


 No.2893567

>>2893535

You claimed that all argument for abortion where on moral ground.

After being provided with non moral argument, you switched to muh killing prole is bad praxis.


 No.2893568

>>2893564

>having people who aren't tied to caring for and wanting the safest option to protect their kid is a bad thing


 No.2893569

>>2893567

>You claimed that all argument for abortion where on moral ground.

>

>After being provided with non moral argument, you switched to muh killing prole is bad praxis.

that was still a moral argument tho


 No.2893570

File: b3527a239a3cc8e⋯.jpg (51.88 KB, 750x538, 375:269, 1548369516760.jpg)

>why are so many women radlibs

>this thread

hm i wonder


 No.2893571

>eliminating homelessness by killing the homeless is a bad thing

peak bourgeois


 No.2893572

>>2893568

hey retard adoption still exists


 No.2893573

>>why are so many women radlibs

honestly i became this way due to radlibs/feminsts


 No.2893574

>>2893573

>using reactionary talking points to pwn the libs xD

epic


 No.2893575

>>2893572

Sure. That doesn't change the fact that labor shortages have long been a period of serious instability under capitalism and that even now capitalists in the first world are being forced to import migrants en masse to attempt to prevent the imminently threatening birth rate drop over the last ten years.


 No.2893576

File: 7d341854426729f⋯.gif (1.13 MB, 500x379, 500:379, 1530897475660.gif)

>>2893570

Because of capitalism you sinner.


 No.2893577

>>2893575

>Sure. That doesn't change the fact that labor shortages have long been a period of serious instability under capitalism and that even now capitalists in the first world are being forced to import migrants en masse to attempt to prevent the imminently threatening birth rate drop over the last ten years.

and..?


 No.2893579

>>2893576

Christcoms should be impaled anally with wooden stakes and then be forced to to push it out their ass


 No.2893580

File: 20b4afc605cc811⋯.jpg (33.96 KB, 843x906, 281:302, 20b4afc605cc811a6cbafe71fb….jpg)

>>2893577

And therefore having less workers invariably grows labor power. We should be anti-natalist and anti-immigrant.


 No.2893583

File: 8fad4cfc3a68461⋯.png (9.02 KB, 255x251, 255:251, 8fad4cfc3a68461a523b5ef505….png)

>>2893579

Nice sectarianism there fellow 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧comrade🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧


 No.2893584

>>2893580

>And therefore having less workers invariably grows labor power. We should be anti-natalist and anti-immigrant.

<if you have less people on your side. you're stronger

yeah ok bud


 No.2893585

>>2893574

>>using reactionary talking points to pwn the libs xD

Yeah, you underestimate how personally aggravating feminists are. I know trumps economic policy is neoliberal, but if I was a burger I would have literally voted for him to own the libs tbh


 No.2893586

>>2893536

To build communism you need to sread class consciousness. People entirely focused on survival are less likely to take time to think about their conditions and more likely to buy predigested ideological soup puked by either MSM or "alternative facts" new agencies.


 No.2893587

>>2893583

Yeah no its not sectarian to hate christcucks and papists most especially like you are. Put your flag back on, you shouldve kept it on this whole thread.

Lol and i cant criticize you for your spooky moral system? Fuck you and go suck christs cock


 No.2893588

>>2893584

So you flat out disagree with the claim that labor shortages have been important for fighting capitalism in the past?


 No.2893589

>People entirely focused on hedonism are less likely to take time to think about their conditions

Fixed for you. The Russian were starving and made a revolution, in the west everybody has their birth control, abortions and almost nobody starves yet there is nothing revolutionary about them.


 No.2893590

>>2893585

or hey, i just don't base my life on "not being that guy" because i'm not a fucking loser.


 No.2893592

>>2893589

>thats not true, are you new


 No.2893594

>>2893588

>So you flat out disagree with the claim that labor shortages have been important for fighting capitalism in the past?

I disagree with the claim that abortions create a labor shortage


 No.2893598

>2893590

>condecension, insults and virtue signalling

Yep thanks for proving my point. Don't be surprised if the disenfranchised run into the arms of fascists if they are the only ones who at least appear to value them. I can't wait for societal collapse when "sexual liberation" will be finally over.


 No.2893600

File: ea3c8ddafcce2f5⋯.png (692.53 KB, 513x739, 513:739, Figsaturnpepe.png)

>>2893569

Thinking with my wallet is a moral argument?

What the fuck do even moral means at this point?


 No.2893601

>>2893600

cutting the gibs to single moms is even better for your wallet


 No.2893603

>>2893594

>In 2015, 638,169 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 49 reporting areas. The abortion rate for 2015 was 11.8 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years, and the abortion ratio was 188 abortions per 1,000 live births.

Coupled with the west's already barely above replacement birth rate, having over 10% of the already shrinking workforce not come into being does add to that.


 No.2893605

>>2893603

You have provided no evidence for your claim. Japan has even lower birthrates and they are as far from revolution ax it gets. Civil War China had plenty of labour surplus.


 No.2893608

>>2893600

>Thinking with my wallet is a moral argument?

>

>What the fuck do even moral means at this point?

But you're not thinking with you're wallet if you're delaying revolution


 No.2893610

>>2893603

>Coupled with the west's already barely above replacement birth rate, having over 10% of the already shrinking workforce not come into being does add to that.

ok and? birth isn't the only way to increase labor force.

Prove that abortions cause a labor shortage


 No.2893614

To all the "killing of muh future workers" people, how come you are ok with protection but not abortion? After all, if these were banned there would be more proles being born, right? I doubt that you can argue against this, so why draw the at abortion and not on contraception and condoms too? I can only assume it is because your own morals, making this whole argument invalid since the morals of most normal people today are pro abortion at least to some extent, meaning they would place them above the "killing of muh proles", like you do with sex protection.

Also you vehemently say that abortion doesn't affect porkies and middle class cucks too while not providing any source (since it is only your assumption)

And do you seriously believe that having these aborted babies be born would make a difference? Most likely they wouldn't become workers capable to contributing to positive societal change because of either dying young / turning to crime. Also revolution doesn't come from numbers, but from workers actually uniting.

Lastly, this is more to all of anti-abortion folk, you realise banning it is basically impossible? Most normies will fight tooth and nail for it, and even if it is banned, women will simply turn back to the old methods of drinking shitty and unsafe tinctures to end pregnancy / coat hangers.


 No.2893615

>>2893601

>cutting the gibs to single moms is even better for your wallet

Increasing the likelyness of thoses women's kids to become thugs that i could meet isn't good either for my wallet, nor is giving the state an excuse to increase cop funding.


 No.2893620

>>2893608

>Imlying those two are mutually exclusive.


 No.2893624

>>2893614

sound, sane and rational arguments. prepare for

>but they're dumb whores


 No.2893626

>>2893614

>how come you are ok with protection

<implying

>women will simply turn back to the old methods of drinking shitty and unsafe tinctures to end pregnancy / coat hangers

Guess we should not make murder illegal, people will kill anyway xDDDD

Putting barriers in front of it makes it more difficult, costlier and painful which makes it happen a lot less frequently and makes the individual less likely to abort.


 No.2893629

>>2893605

They are starting to import immigrants en masse now to make up for it. Its only going to accelerate. The birth strike of japanese women who don't want to have kids in an extremely brutal meritocratic society is being broken by foreign proletarians, putting Japan on a trajectory similar to the Western countries


 No.2893633

>>2893626

>Putting barriers in front of it makes it more difficult, costlier and painful which makes it happen a lot less frequently and makes the individual less likely to abort.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2709326/

Nah, it's just make women more likely to use unsafe methods that either kill them or make them barren, which ironically have a higher toll on the overall natality rate than just having safe abortion accessible. Because at least women who abort safely end up having children more often than not, albeit latter, when their ressources are more secured.

So much for the concern about the number of proles.


 No.2893635

>>2893614

<putting muh infront of something makes it a valid argument

>how come you are ok with protection but not abortion? After all, if these were banned there would be more proles being born, right?

its easier to ban abortions than condoms

>I can only assume it is because your own morals, making this whole argument invalid since the morals of most normal people today are pro abortion at least to some extent, meaning they would place them above the "killing of muh proles", like you do with sex protection.

<IF I SAY THE WORD MORALS ENOUGH IT BECOMES TRUE.

the pro abortionists have been bringing up morals the most in this thread.

>And do you seriously believe that having these aborted babies be born would make a difference? Most likely they wouldn't become workers

prove it

>capable to contributing to positive societal change because of either dying young / turning to crime.

you're just saying things you want to be true but in reality you have no way of knowning

Also revolution doesn't come from numbers, but from workers actually uniting.

revolution comes from a popular front


 No.2893637

>>2893633

Are you braindamaged? Nothing there contradicts what I said.


 No.2893638

Being anti-abortion is retarted. Fetuses don’t have complex thought patterns, they aren’t conscious or self-aware. Yes people should have children and natalism is good however, having kids should be done when people are ready for it. Aka, not when they are teens.


 No.2893639

>>2893635

You havent proven any of your claims either. Your bizarre claim that shitting out more babies will cause revolution is not only untested but displays an utter disregard for the planet’s ecology, where habitat destruction is putting 1 million other species at extinction risk, where humanity will not live another few generations probably, and which can be resolved by importing tons of immigrants if you care so much about your little stupid pet theory


 No.2893643

>>2893638

Then they shouldn't get have to have sex either. It's unfair that they should get to experience the best feeling in the world ad not even have to raise new workers which would be their payback. Also correcting for socioeconominc factors, children of teens have better results anyway, old parents have biologically subpar offspring.


 No.2893644

>banning abortion means more workers

>porky totally doesn't want a bigger labor pool


 No.2893646

>>2893643

>people getting to do something free of consequence

>wah it's not fair!

Literal incel-tier reasoning


 No.2893647

>>2893638

>Being anti-abortion is retarted. Fetuses don’t have complex thought patterns

and?

>Yes people should have children and natalism is good however, having kids should be done when people are ready for it. Aka, not when they are teens.

moralism


 No.2893648

File: 18af31f07c3c620⋯.png (633.14 KB, 545x808, 545:808, tradcath.png)

>>2893626

>how come you are ok with protection

<implying

t. tradcath

>Guess we should not make murder illegal, people will kill anyway xDDDD

We can only agree to disagree on this since I don't see abortion as some kind of societal evil like murder

>Not even addressing the problems I pointed out with the "killing muh workers" idea

Ok.

>>2893635

<putting muh infront of something makes it a valid argument

Idiotic views deserve shitty responses

<IF I SAY THE WORD MORALS ENOUGH IT BECOMES TRUE.

The point here is that your views is purely a moral one, meaning it is true only to you, as everyones morality is subjective

>prove it

>you're just saying things you want to be true but in reality you have no way of knowing

I live in eastern Europe and I see how children grow up in their shitty Russian-speaker ghettos, they have close to zero chance of becoming productive members of the society. I can only imagine it is the same in US with black ghettos etc.


 No.2893649

>>2893639

>You havent proven any of your claims either

which ones?

>Your bizarre claim that shitting out more babies will cause revolution

I never said this

>utter disregard for the planet’s ecology, where habitat destruction is putting 1 million other species at extinction risk,

<Abort babies to save the planet

Malthusian please go

Man is the master of the Earth

>which can be resolved by importing tons of immigrants if you care so much about your little stupid pet theory

yeah this has been tried and the consequences are terrible.


 No.2893650

>>2893639

>an utter disregard for the planet’s ecology, where habitat destruction is putting 1 million other species at extinction risk, where humanity will not live another few generations probably

Level of consumption, and mode of resource extraction is the problem, not number of people. The best solution to the environmental problem would be to invest in more efficient technology and reduce consumption per capita, not to implement a retarted birth control policy that in fifty years will create a world where old retires are the majority of the population. Population controls aren’t sustainable unless you set the retirement age to one hundred.

>>2893643

>children of teens have better results anyway

Not really, older parents have more life experience, and thus have more knowledge to give to the children. While (most) teens are utter retards.

>>2893647

>and

If you aren’t self aware you don’t deserve rights. If you disagree than stop eating meat.


 No.2893651

>>2893648

>Idiotic views deserve shitty responses

yeah which is what I'm doing to you

>The point here is that your views is purely a moral one, meaning it is true only to you, as everyones morality is subjective

No your views are moral ones.

>live in eastern Europe and I see how children grow up in their shitty Russian-speaker ghettos, they have close to zero chance of becoming productive members of the society. I can only imagine it is the same in US with black ghettos etc.

anecdote


 No.2893653

>>2893650

>If you aren’t self aware you don’t deserve rights. If you disagree than stop eating meat.

Moralism


 No.2893655

File: 411d7bf6abf69f9⋯.jpg (60.16 KB, 728x843, 728:843, NotAnArgument.jpg)

>>2893653

Shouting “moralism” at you opponent is not an argument.


 No.2893659

>>2893649

>>2893650

>Dude lmao humans can grow infinitely they totally don't take up space and use any resources. The world is so big animals and plants cant go extinct!

Literal Victorian tier thinking. Capitalism is not going any time soon by the looks of it and that means higher consumption as production and consumption rise in the third world and population momentum continues despite declining world birth rates. Tl;dr were fucked


 No.2893660

>muh experience

Nice spook. There is nothing 5 year old needs to know that a 40 year old knows but a 20 year old does not. In practice they are often worse because their parents are poorer, but normalizing for that they are more intelligent and more healthy. Look up down syndrome rates as function of age of the mother.

>If you aren’t self aware you don’t deserve rights

Somebody in a coma is not self aware either.


 No.2893662

Everyone in this thread making the argument that abortions should be allowed because it reduces the workforce needs to fucking stop and read Lenin. There are arguements that can be made for abortion, this is not one of them and it's inherently neo-malthusian in character.


 No.2893663

>>2893651

>anecdote

Is the entirety of eastern Europe an anecdote? Black neighbourhoods an anecdote too? Also, what makes you believe that these babies would be sustainable? And how many do you imagine would survive even the first year? How many coat hanger abortions will there be? How many dumpster babies? How many left orphans (who have little chance to become decent people as well)?


 No.2893664

>>2893660

>There is nothing 5 year old needs to know that a 40 year old knows but a 20 year old does not. In practice they are often worse because their parents are poorer, but normalizing for that they are more intelligent and more healthy.

They tend to be financially stabler. If society provided for its young men and women what you say is reasonable but at the moment its not. And who cares about muh down syndrome? Its simply a trade off people make having a slightly higher (but still tiny) chance of having a defective child. Down syndrome can easily be screened for and ABORTED


 No.2893665

>>2893659

>Dude lmao humans can grow infinitely they totally don't take up space and use any resources

Humans have not even touched 1% of 1% of the Earth’s resources.

>>2893660

>There is nothing 5 year old needs to know that a 40 year old knows but a 20 year old does not.

A forty year old has twice the life experience of a twenty year old.

>>2893660

>Look up down syndrome rates as function of age of the mother.

Down Syndrome kids should be aborted. No baby no problem.

>>2893660

>Somebody in a coma is not self aware either.

They were, and it’s very likely they will again. While one could argue a fetus will eventually be self-aware, the difference is that someone in a Coma was self aware before they went into a coma.


 No.2893666

>>2893665

Resources don't mean shit if the earth cant sustain life and biodiversity collapses


 No.2893667

>>2893660

Thing is it is not like coma. The embryo lacks consciousness. It is like a braindead person on life support, an empty shell that can only support basic life functions. Only difference is that one will develop consciousness later, while the other is broken forever


 No.2893668

>>2893662

Who cares about justifying it? It should be allowed one way or another i dont care what the justification. And anyway like I said hordes of immigrants can be imported if population growth slows. The last 30 years is evidence and theres endless supply from the third world for that


 No.2893670

>>2893655

>Shouting “moralism” at you opponent is not an argument.

reels>feels


 No.2893671

>>2893660

Braindead people in a coma should be killed


 No.2893672

>>2893663

>Is the entirety of eastern Europe an anecdote?

no your experiences are


 No.2893676

File: 24889828aaa81b8⋯.jpg (12.92 KB, 255x191, 255:191, 256d76a24fdd9482454a135255….jpg)

File: f30355d562e4007⋯.jpg (17.17 KB, 255x210, 17:14, 759673cdd48460c0f6143ea355….jpg)

File: d41c34ad8cce95e⋯.jpg (15.89 KB, 255x169, 255:169, 044274466ebfcbc0898a7fb254….jpg)

>>2893672

>>2893671

>>2893670

>>2893671

I SAID SHUT THER FUCK UP BABOON BOY

BABOON BOY PRE-ANTINATAL RIGHT

SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY

SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY====SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY

SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY

SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY

SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY

SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY

SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY

SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY

SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY====SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY

SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY


 No.2893678

>>2893649

>yeah this has been tried and the consequences are terrible

And shitting out more babies is better lol?


 No.2893679

>>2893676

Unironically the most refreshing post on this thread in a while


 No.2893684

File: f241a59922c0191⋯.png (812.2 KB, 851x1042, 851:1042, serveimage(2).png)

>>2893676

BUT THOSE ARE MANDRILLS


 No.2893686

lmao at all those people calling for the abortion of people with Down's even though having it doesn't necessitate failure. Hell, there are some people with Down's that are 20× more successful than the people saying they should have been aborted (ironic, lol).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6He0FWoFj0


 No.2893687

>>2893678

>And shitting out more babies is better lol?

facts = bias now

ok

not an argument


 No.2893688

>>2893666

>cant sustain life

in what way


 No.2893691

>>2893666

the earth can easily sustain life. It can't sustain your comfy first world lifestyle if resources collapse.


 No.2893694

>>2893686

>some

Huh, I guess racism is over since Obama was president


 No.2893698

>>2893686

>Tim Harris, owner of Tim's Place, is the country's only restaurant owner with Down's Syndrome

Being peti-bourg doesn’t make you successful. Being successful means you contributed something significant to society.


 No.2893699

>>2893698

>Being peti-bourg doesn’t make you successful. Being successful means you contributed something significant to society.

success is a spook


 No.2893700

>>2893698

going from prol to petite bourgeois is success


 No.2893701

File: 4082d978acc85ac⋯.jpg (39.97 KB, 645x729, 215:243, Brainlit2.jpg)


 No.2893703

File: 21b91dfe0c65cb5⋯.jpg (53.46 KB, 750x722, 375:361, 21b91dfe0c65cb56f29365d949….jpg)

>>2893698

Everybody, laugh on this nigga


 No.2893705

>>2893700

No being successful means you contributes something significant to society. Being a parasite is the opposite of contribution.


 No.2893706

>>2893701

reels>feels


 No.2893707

>>2893703

>People actually agree with me, they are just hiding!


 No.2893708

>>2893698

missing_the_point.jpg


 No.2893709

>>2893705

>No being successful means you contributes something significant to society. Being a parasite is the opposite of contribution.

being successful means increasing the number of resources you posses


 No.2893710

>>2893687

Ok so if you dont want more proles then why do you want to ban abortion? Immigration increases proles without having to burden women here with babies.

>>2893688

When ecosystems collapse gorillion things can happen, we just dont know yet. But if youve studied ANY ecology you know that killing off species interrupts how organisms interact with each other and this can effect climate and soul conditions. Decreasing crop diversity will also creates potential for mass extinction of monoculture crops like the Irish potato famine. Also why the fuck do you want humans growing indefinitely at the expense of other species anyway when we can control our population? This last bit is “moralism” for other species but it also offers a reservoir of genetic information for bioengineering


 No.2893713

>>2893710

>Ok so if you dont want more proles then why do you want to ban abortion? Immigration increases proles without having to burden women here with babies.

No it doesn't it just moves them around


 No.2893714

>>2893691

Nice ad hom anprim faggot. I dont care about losing my possessions but i dont think a massive reduction in living standards is good either. Why not just have fewer people (like hundreds of millions, say) who can live at a higher standard than 30 billion humans living on subsistence diets? Communism is not “breeding the most humans ever” retard


 No.2893715

>>2893713

You haven't answered the question. Why dont you want abortion. And NO those places they come form “overpopulated” and still haven't revolted yet so youre obviously wrong. Clearly you have NO CLUe when the population limit is reached for revolt because your basing your claims on nonsense. I suspect your a crypto poltard who wants “muh white race” to outbreed the browns and have racial socialism or some retarded shit


 No.2893716

>>2893714

>Nice ad hom anprim faggot.

actually thats not an ad hom learn debates

>I dont care about losing my possessions but i dont think a massive reduction in living standards is good either. Why not just have fewer people (like hundreds of millions, say) who can live at a higher standard than 30 billion humans living on subsistence diets? Communism is not “breeding the most humans ever” retard

lol being this butthurt.

do you think you're larping as some policy proposal?

I didn't say I support this but the way things are going civilization is running on non renewable resources, once those resources are expended our comfy live style is over


 No.2893717

>>2893715

>You haven't answered the question. Why dont you want abortion.

Because killing the proletariat does not help revolution

>And NO those places they come form “overpopulated” and still haven't revolted yet so youre obviously wrong.

over populated is a myth perpetrated by Malthusians

>Clearly you have NO CLUe when the population limit is reached for revolt because your basing your claims on nonsense.\

prove pop limit isn't a spook then

>I suspect your a crypto poltard who wants “muh white race” to outbreed the browns and have racial socialism or some retarded shit

<everyone I disagree with is pol

wew lad


 No.2893718

>>2893716

>you just don't want to lose your lifestyle

Thats ad hom you mouthbreathing fuckface


 No.2893719

>>2893718

>Thats ad hom you mouthbreathing fuckface

nope


 No.2893722

>>2893716

>lol being this butthurt.

Nope. You’re just being purposely dense. I suspect you’re the same guy who got banned yesterday who’s now back with a second round of COPE arguments to disguise his anti abortion agenda

>do you think you're larping as some policy proposal

This is a site to discuss ideas for a future society? Now I can’t make a proposal about the future?

>once those resources are expended our comfy live style is over

There we go again. You love calling out people for “moralism” but again you’re same contempt for human comfort. You’re the same guy arguing that people enjoying sex should be punished, aren’t you? Now you’re just sneaking in your assumptions in another way because you are on utter damage control to get people to accept your anti-abortion nonsense

>over populated is a myth perpetrated by Malthusians

I’m pretty sure climate change and environmental damage is a concern of ALL people. This is something that the Left needs to deal with and trying to sweep it under the rug is delusional. And, again, I suspect your Christfaggery because you lot are absolutely of obsessed with “be fruitful and multiply” as though its really a god given command

>prove pop limit isn't a spook then

Prove it isn’t. And also why are you dead set on crowding every shore of this earth with people to the detriment of other species? The only explanation I can think of is Christcuck wanting more people to worship his make believe god

>nope

Yes it is, you’re argument essentially was “you don’t want to lose your western luxuries that is why you don’t want to let the population grow indefinitely.” That is an attack on my character which is ad hom. KYS


 No.2893727

>>2893722

>This is a site to discuss ideas for a future society? Now I can’t make a proposal about the future?

no but seeing you get emotional as if this was actually happening is funny

>There we go again. You love calling out people for “moralism” but again you’re same contempt for human comfort.

Yes Moralism is not a valid argument.

But no where did I say "a comfy lifestyle is bad"

You're arguing against a point I never made

>You’re the same guy arguing that people enjoying sex should be punished, aren’t you?

I never said that

>Now you’re just sneaking in your assumptions in another way because you are on utter damage control to get people to accept your anti-abortion nonsense

<If i keep saying you failed it becomes true.

well the 2 people on this board that were against abortion failed to counter my points so… the opposite of what you're saying is true\


 No.2893728

>>2892020

I really don't mind, killing fetuses is not unethical but anticonceptional methods are good enough these days. Women are important for the revolution tho, I'd rather have them by my side than have them too worried to engage because they fear for their children. If abortions will help women engage, then I'm in favor.

To those who say the working class needs more people: numbers aren't the problem, we are the majority everywhere, what we need is adherence. Population growth helps the capitalist illusion of progress, as production increases with population. The demographic stagnation will help in showing all the faults in the capitalist system, as production growth will stagnate and the rich will try to rob what the poor and the petit bourgeoisie currently have to become richer and make the lower classes poorer (this is happening right now in developed countries). Revolutions can happen in growing populations tho, the only thing that really matters is the engagement of the working class.


 No.2893733

>>2893728

>To those who say the working class needs more people: numbers aren't the problem, we are the majority everywhere, what we need is adherence.

higher numbers increase the chances of potential revolutionaries

>The demographic stagnation will help in showing all the faults in the capitalist system,

but abortion causing a demographic stagnation would have to happen first and its not.


 No.2893734

>>2893727

>no but seeing you get emotional as if this was actually happening is funny

They’re simply words. Who cares? I prefer to insult you because you are a disgusting human being with a sinister agenda. You just don’t want to reveal how wretched you are, how you actually are a slave slew of irrational ideas tied up in biblical teaching and other nonsense drilled into you when younger.

>Yes Moralism is not a valid argument.

A glaring example of the pot calling the kettle black

>But no where did I say "a comfy lifestyle is bad

You have a bleak view of the future and said outright my losing my “comfy life” is a good thing. The implication is that you want to see others suffer in the future and you prefer everyone shares some material deprivation to having less population with more resources to share.

>I never said that

One of you did

<If i keep saying you failed it becomes true.

There’s only one person who has been consistently repeating this line the entire thread and its the anti-abortion poster which probably is (you)


 No.2893736

>>2893727

>well the 2 people on this board that were against abortion failed to counter my points

You putting fingers in your ears singing Lalala isn't exactly the same as them failing to counter your points.


 No.2893738

>>2893733

>higher numbers increase the chances of potential revolutionaries

You’ve repeated this a dozen times already and have offered ZERO proof for it.

>but abortion causing a demographic stagnation would have to happen first and its not.

IMMIGRATION can do the same fucking shit as I’ve also repeated a dozen times


 No.2893739

>>2893734

>They’re simply words. Who cares? I prefer to insult you because you are a disgusting human being with a sinister agenda.

yeah some for what you said

>You just don’t want to reveal how wretched you are, how you actually are a slave slew of irrational ideas tied up in biblical teaching and other nonsense drilled into you when younger.

oh yeah when did I bring but biblical teachings?

>A glaring example of the pot calling the kettle black

not an argument

>You have a bleak view of the future and said outright my losing my “comfy life” is a good thing

except I didn't say that

>The implication is that you want to see others suffer in the future and you prefer everyone shares some material deprivation to having less population with more resources to share.

When did I bring up "want"?


 No.2893740

>>2893736

>You putting fingers in your ears singing Lalala isn't exactly the same as them failing to counter your points.

not an argument


 No.2893742

>>2893738

>You’ve repeated this a dozen times already and have offered ZERO proof for it.

because its basic math

>IMMIGRATION can do the same fucking shit as I’ve also repeated a dozen times

no it can't.

Because immigrates are already born


 No.2893743

>>2893733

higher numbers increase the chances of potential reactionnaries/ counterrevolutionnaries.

So what's your point?


 No.2893744

>>2893739

>when you’ve lost so much you have to keep retreating till the debate becomes so abstracted from the abortion issue in hopes that people will just forget about how you’ve been BTFO

I don't care about the other little petty arguments you’re making at this point to draw away from the main point


 No.2893745

>>2893742

>it’s basic math

Ok then show me how basic math means more revolutionaries are produced. I’m waiting Anti-Abortionist


 No.2893746

>>2893743

>higher numbers increase the chances of potential reactionnaries/ counterrevolutionnaries.

>

>So what's your point?

and?


 No.2893748

File: b7e020b748ff459⋯.gif (279.26 KB, 640x640, 1:1, Capobv.gif)

>>2893740

I wasn't making an argument. I was just in the mood for being pic related.


 No.2893749

>>2893744

>I don't care about the other little petty arguments you’re making at this point to draw away from the main point

<I can't contest your arguments so I'm just going to say "i don't care"

so is this you accepting debate or what?


 No.2893750

>>2893746

It’s a bot I’m sure of it

The poster did this same thing above


 No.2893751

>>2893745

>Ok then show me how basic math means more revolutionaries are produced. I’m waiting Anti-Abortionist

would be abortions are majority proletarians


 No.2893752

>>2893750

>It’s a bot I’m sure of it

>

>The poster did this same thing above

<people i disagree with are bots


 No.2893753

>>2893733

>higher numbers increase the chances of potential revolutionaries

By by the same logic also increase the chances of class traitors. India and Pakistan may be the most fucked up and unequal countries on earth, their populations are huge. Still, the working class wouldn't think twice to fight itself for the rich, if the government provides some stupid explanation like "muh, nationality, muh religion".


 No.2893754

>>2893751

When has overpopulation caused revolution?


 No.2893755

>>2893754

>When has overpopulation caused revolution?

when has overpopulation occurred


 No.2893756

>>2893755

Ok so why are you’re hopes up of overpopulation when you just argued that it’s impossible to overpopulate the earth earlier?


 No.2893757

>>2893753

>By by the same logic also increase the chances of class traitors. India and Pakistan may be the most fucked up and unequal countries on earth, their populations are huge. Still, the working class wouldn't think twice to fight itself for the rich, if the government provides some stupid explanation like "muh, nationality, muh religion".

yes but class traitors can be won over


 No.2893758

>>2893756

>Ok so why are you’re hopes up of overpopulation when you just argued that it’s impossible to overpopulate the earth earlier?

except i didn't argue that


 No.2893761

>>2893709

Peti bourgs don’t do that.

>>2893710

>When ecosystems collapse gorillion things can happen, we just dont know yet. But if youve studied ANY ecology you know that killing off species interrupts how organisms interact with each other and this can effect climate and soul conditions. Decreasing crop diversity will also creates potential for mass extinction of monoculture crops like the Irish potato famine. Also why the fuck do you want humans growing indefinitely at the expense of other species anyway when we can control our population?

For the purposes of production, we can replace organisms we need with GMOs. We have a good enough understanding of bio-chemical process. Agriculture can be done in massive greenhouse vertical farming. Obviously their should be nature reserves, but they aren’t nessicary for our survival, it’s just ascetic.


 No.2893763

>>2893758

>Malthusian please go

>Man is the master of the Earth

If you’re anti-malthusian that means you think that the earth can support populations indefinitely


 No.2893764

>>2893746

Well my understanding of your claim is that popping up kids will make the revolution easier because more troops for us. But that is a moronic point to make because that means also more footsoldiers for the bourgeoisie.

So i'm asking you what exactly is the point you 're making with more babies= good, because i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and give you a chance of explaining your point better rather than just outright assuming you're just a dumbass saying dumb shit.


 No.2893765

>>2893764

It’s a bot. Continue to expect 5 word sentences instead of a coherent refutation. I’ve been trolled massively this whole thread, I suspect


 No.2893766

>>2893761

Let’s hope you’re right. All of your proposals still require massive amounts of research progress and a non-retarded world government, none of which seem to be forthcoming anytime soon.


 No.2893767

>>2893757

Class traitors and the petty bouegeoisie are what stand in the way of the revolution, there are too few capitalists to matter.


 No.2893768

>>2893763

>If you’re anti-malthusian that means you think that the earth can support populations indefinitely

What is this some pathetic attempt to group everyone into a Malthusian ideology?

No it doesn't mean that.


 No.2893771

>>2893768

You’ve been caught. You’ve spent this entire time arguing that I’M the Malthusian for not wanting the world to become stuffed to capacity. So now this isn’t Malthusianism after all? You mean there’s actually a spectrum of opinions that allows for some reasonable family planning policies without sterilizing everyone and wanting everyone to starve to death? Again, I suspect you are massively insincere though


 No.2893772

>>2893764

>Well my understanding of your claim is that popping up kids will make the revolution easier because more troops for us. But that is a moronic point to make because that means also more footsoldiers for the bourgeoisie.

and? those foot soldiers are proletariat.

The people who overthrew the tzar also servered as foot soldiers for the bourgeoisie in ww1

>So i'm asking you what exactly is the point you 're making with more babies= good, because i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and give you a chance of explaining your point better rather than just outright assuming you're just a dumbass saying dumb shit.

Its self explanatory. More children born to the proletariat = more proletariat as a whole.

The bourgeois can only afford to pay off so many police and soldiers

<everything I disagree with is dumb dumb dumbass dumb dumby shit

wew


 No.2893773

>>2893767

>Class traitors and the petty bouegeoisie are what stand in the way of the revolution, there are too few capitalists to matter.

and? sounds like a need more more proletarians then


 No.2893774

>>2893771

>You’ve been caught. You’ve spent this entire time arguing that I’M the Malthusian for not wanting the world to become stuffed to capacity. So now this isn’t Malthusianism after all? You mean there’s actually a spectrum of opinions that allows for some reasonable family planning policies without sterilizing everyone and wanting everyone to starve to death? Again, I suspect you are massively insincere though

what are you even saying


 No.2893775

>>2893772

The proletarian always outnumber the bourgeoisie. Russia is not unique in that regard


 No.2893777

>>2893751

Being a prole doesn't automatically means you're going to side with the revolutionnary forces. False consciousness is a thing.

You know that not every reactionnary do that for money right?

A large chunk of them are doing it or free out of ideology. Look at /pol/tards.


 No.2893778


 No.2893780

>>2893777

I tell you it’s a bot. You see how it only types like 5 word answers? How it only replies to people who respond to it? How is argument and word choice is almost incoherent? It’s a bot… or a very good. Why haven’t the mods deleted all his posts yet?


 No.2893781

>>2893780

Very good troll*


 No.2893782

>>2893775

>The proletarian always outnumber the bourgeoisie. Russia is not unique in that regard

and?


 No.2893783

>>2893777

>Being a prole doesn't automatically means you're going to side with the revolutionnary forces. False consciousness is a thing.

I didn't say it automatically means you're going to be revolutionary.

>You know that not every reactionnary do that for money right?

I didn't say every reactionary does it for money.


 No.2893784

With 70% of all black babies aborted, we realized we are killing off our most reliable and easily manipulated voting block.


 No.2893785

>>2893780

>I tell you it’s a bot. You see how it only types like 5 word answers? How it only replies to people who respond to it? How is argument and word choice is almost incoherent? It’s a bot… or a very good. Why haven’t the mods deleted all his posts yet?

<everyone I don't like is a bot

<everyone I don't like is a bot

<everyone I don't like is a bot


 No.2893787

>>2893780

I'm not really convinced by the automaton hypothesis, i already saw chatbots in action, the content is a bit weirder.

Could be a troll, but my personal hypothesis is the good ol' shilling. Not even the convinced one, the guy who have to spend all his time typing posts following printed instructions by corporations specialized in opinion manipulation, just to get a few bucks to meet month end. I pity him actually.


 No.2893788

>>2893782

You haven’t proven anti-abortion policies or excess birth caused the Russian revolution. Can you please try to argue more in depth?


 No.2893789

>>2893772

>The bourgeois can only afford to pay off so many police and soldiers

Their money comes from the exploitation of the working classes. So, more proletariats, more money. They can always hire a good proportion of the population, and can always let some become part of the middle class. They don't mind letting some share the products of the exploitation of the proletariat if that means keeping their property and position, that's what "social mobility" and "social inclusion" are all about.


 No.2893791

File: a890b8cfbc8be1d⋯.png (249.74 KB, 712x600, 89:75, bb960mzvsgby.png)

>>2892020

I'm fine with it


 No.2893792

>>2893788

>You haven’t proven anti-abortion policies or excess birth caused the Russian revolution

I didn't claim this


 No.2893793

>>2893789

>Their money comes from the exploitation of the working classes. So, more proletariats, more money. They can always hire a good proportion of the population, and can always let some become part of the middle class. They don't mind letting some share the products of the exploitation of the proletariat if that means keeping their property and position, that's what "social mobility" and "social inclusion" are all about.

source?


 No.2893795

>>2893787

>Not even the convinced one, the guy who have to spend all his time typing posts following printed instructions by corporations specialized in opinion manipulation

If this is true I chuckle then that some wageslave is just at home or in a cubicle just typing out preapproved lines to spam here. Well I’ll retired from this thread with that thought.. I’m upset thought that the Jannies haven’t banned him though


 No.2893798

File: a073f07cb906e6e⋯.jpg (3.95 MB, 2480x3507, 2480:3507, sonkosn.jpg)

>>2893242

This is the only correct stance on this issue. If you disagree then your theory is bad, and you should feel bad.

>>2893413

Moralfags fuck off.


 No.2893799

>>2893783

You didn't say it because (i'll assume) you didn't think about it. I'm telling you about it so you understand than banning abortion to give birth to more revolutionnaries is not a good praxis to bring forth revolution, because more people goes both way.

More people could means more revolutionnaries but it also means more class traitors, more fascists, more classcucks.


 No.2893800

>>2893793

Garltural Margz


 No.2893801

>>2893798

>This is the only correct stance on this issue. If you disagree then your theory is bad, and you should feel bad.

Or you could just adopt Lenin's stance on the issue.


 No.2893802

File: 84255b7a3141ddd⋯.png (93.25 KB, 430x242, 215:121, 84255b7a3141ddd385bf515be5….png)

>>2893795

>If this is true I chuckle then that some wageslave is just at home or in a cubicle just typing out preapproved lines to spam here.

It's not funny it's sad. Those companies actually exists. One of the latest example in date.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-based-campaign-to-spread-disinformation-targeted-nigerian-election-1.7252585


 No.2893806

>>2893799

>You didn't say it because (i'll assume) you didn't think about it.

then you're arguing against a point I never made

>'m telling you about it so you understand than banning abortion to give birth to more revolutionnaries is not a good praxis to bring forth revolution

killing proletariat is not a good praxis either.

>because more people goes both way.

>More people could means more revolutionnaries but it also means more class traitors, more fascists, more classcucks.

if this is true then killing them just means killing revolutionaries which is not good praxis


 No.2893808

>>2893793

>Their money comes from the exploitation of the working classes.

Everything I said is a consequence of this, and that's basic marxism.


 No.2893811

>>2893808

>Everything I said is a consequence of this, and that's basic marxism.

prove it happen in the real world at the rate you're describing


 No.2893814

>>2893811

India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Mexico, the capitalist developing world in general.


 No.2893815

>>2893806

It. Goes. Both. Ways

>if this is true then killing them just means killing class traitors, fascists and classcucks which is good praxis.

Do you understand now?


 No.2893817

>>2893785

everyone the collective of this board democratically dislikes is committing counter-revolutionary action and should be re-educated in the ban gulag

>>2893242

>>2893801

>>2893798

i agree with the arguments but dialectical materialism is not about parroting arguments and blindly worshiping people like lenin. the reason why we are having trouble today is because of a lack of creativity and stagnation in thought. we need to improvise and deconstruct the world we live in today, not the same contexts that previous marxists worked within.

>>2893806

proletariat are living people. fetus ain't people, especially when you swizzle stick its little undeveloped soft skull around and vacuum it out. thus fetus ain't proles. besides, i never have seen an unborn child doing wage labor.


 No.2893820

>>2893802

Well obviously its bad. Some person though thought this board was important to astroturf on though so thats a positive.

Still dont know why he hasnt been banned yet its just a nuisance at this point


 No.2893821

>>2893815

>Do you understand now?

but this isn't a bad thing desu

Fascists push moderates to the left


 No.2893822

>>2893817

>everyone the collective of this board democratically dislikes is committing counter-revolutionary action and should be re-educated in the ban gulag

agreed


 No.2893823

>>2893817

>proletariat are living people. fetus ain't people

why not


 No.2893824

>>2893820

>Some person though thought this board was important to astroturf on though so thats a positive.

It's not even that.

Shilling absolutely everywhere from highly used socil media to irrelevant blog is a thing.

See "Let nothing go" Monsanto shills.


 No.2893826

>>2893823

Same reason seed ain't saplings nor eggs are chicks.


 No.2893828

The abortion lobby isn't sending their best.


 No.2893829

>>2893826

>Same reason seed ain't saplings nor eggs are chicks.

not an argument


 No.2893834

>>2893829

Because you have to be a special reptile to defend the religious right. At least honest /pol/tards defend abortion on the grounds that it kills black babies


 No.2893835

>>2893829

Yes it is. An egg isn't a chicken no matter how you look at it, even if it can become one. A foetus isn't a person, even if it can become one.


 No.2893843

>>2893828

Be sympathetic Anon, this thread have been going for three days. I could only do my best for a while before half assing it if i had to do such a shitty job.


 No.2893852

>>2893834

>Because you have to be a special reptile to defend the religious right. At least honest /pol/tards defend abortion on the grounds that it kills black babies

ok well im doing neither


 No.2893853

>>2893835

>Yes it is. An egg isn't a chicken no matter how you look at it, even if it can become one. A foetus isn't a person, even if it can become one.

humans aren't chickens


 No.2893854

File: 974421d76e928f7⋯.jpg (48.88 KB, 534x492, 89:82, EMBRYO.jpg)

>>2893853

And foetuses aren't persons.


 No.2893855

>>2893852

I understand Anon, a man gotta eat.


 No.2893862

>>2892047

Life > Comfort


 No.2893864

>>2893854

>And foetuses aren't persons.

it is tho


 No.2893867

>>2893864

It ain't tho.


 No.2893868

>>2893864

Really anything can be a person. It is just a legal decision.


 No.2893870

>>2893862

>More shitty lives are okay because we're born to suffer

Spoken like a true Christard.

>>2893868

Touché. Remember when Saudi Arabia made a citizen out of a chatbot/realdoll hybrid?


 No.2893871

File: d439c13e693129b⋯.png (287.77 KB, 745x635, 149:127, d439c13e693129bc763f625e32….png)

Morals will save this godless world.


 No.2893873

>>2893870

Shitty lives are still lives. They are worth more than just their utility to any person or group.

They are worth more than their suffering. You are no better than the fascist that would have you culled.

If suffering is such a burden, why even fight? It would be more expedient to simply commit mass-suicide.


 No.2893875

File: 45047ca8eb1f21d⋯.png (18.24 KB, 666x555, 6:5, 45047ca8eb1f21d1b7c90a2fd7….png)

>>2893873

Psht, you think I care about other people? Well sorry to burst your utopian bubble, Christcuck… but I don't care about other people. I literally don't care about anybody else, but if you do, then you're delusional, and I will call you rude names. Heh heh… you moralists thought there's any value to the world? Well guess what, honey apple pie banana bread… there's not. None of it matters.


 No.2893880

>>2893875

>you think I care about other people?

It depends on if you are the person who I was replying to.


 No.2893884

File: d8a8fc16e8c04d1⋯.png (19.13 KB, 444x444, 1:1, 3684376824.png)

>>2893873

>They are worth more than just their utility to any person or group.

Other people's lives only matter to me for the impact they have on mine. a potential existence have no bearing on my life, and is therefore of no concern to me.


 No.2893891

>>2893884

>Other people's lives only matter to me for the impact they have on mine.

I'm sure you would be comforted to know your superiors feel the same way.


 No.2893894

File: 25fd6854d479ef7⋯.jpg (83.87 KB, 905x942, 905:942, 25fd6854d479ef7b80c409aec5….jpg)

>>2893891

WAIT NO

Actually that's

NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


 No.2893900

File: 385b8dd0834fe89⋯.jpg (75.57 KB, 594x395, 594:395, 1469574123398.jpg)

>>2893891

There isn't much comfort or distress from sharing a thought with my "superiors". Not anymore than using similar socks.

I don't consider some strangers feelings to be the basis, the compass that is supposed to shape my own feelings toward things.


 No.2893901

>>2893891

Is this supposed to be some epic "gotcha xD" or what


 No.2893904

File: f221a233471a24d⋯.jpg (3.6 KB, 198x225, 22:25, 1513996314913.jpg)

>>2893901

>I don't get it therefore you're wrong


 No.2893910

File: 6275e3c67ce0e25⋯.jpg (175.43 KB, 601x797, 601:797, 2387593475934793.jpg)

>>2893901

It is merely moralizing reproach from my understanding:

>you're thinking process is alike to the upperclassmen you're supposed to resent, and that makes you just as bad as them!

But in the end, the haunted man is just throwing at me the chains he set up for himself, unable to comprehend he cannot bind me to his fixed idea because this idea is just my property


 No.2893911

>>2893900

The point is that people who think that way don't gain much from it without already being in a position of some authority.

At which point, why even care for the weak? Assuming you already have the power to make your desires a reality, why share that with anyone?

The only thing this kind of belief translates into for anyone without power is a lack of discipline. With power it is plainly reactionary.


 No.2893991

File: 5551277bf920485⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 12.93 KB, 224x375, 224:375, c32ee6lxxvw21.jpg)

It is okay to be personally against abortion. Most of the argument comes down to a philosophical argument to when you consider "personhood" to begin.

Politically/Socially though, it's retarded not to be pro-choice, the social consequences of being anti-abortion are pretty obvious at this point.


 No.2894010

>>2893873

>implying they're lives in the first place

>caring about cost of lives to destroy reactionary politics to foster revolutionary thought

Stop calling urself a communist.


 No.2894018

Why is this thread 485 replies, you retarded Kantian-priestly vegetarian-Quaker prattle spewers?


 No.2894038

>>2894010

>Cynically dehumanize the weak, because they can not represent themselves or fight back

>In order to maintain the approval of their callous owners, who are more valuable to society

Such a revolutionary idea


 No.2894063

File: f8fbd239a522bfc⋯.jpg (32.09 KB, 480x387, 160:129, gonnagetu.jpg)

>>2894038

>destroying reactionary sexual relations by providing women self-actualization through freedom of choice over their bodies

>getting rid of clumps of cell without sentience to do so

Indeed it is.


 No.2894214

>>2894018

Anon hates conceding the last word + spooks must be defended til the very end.


 No.2894310

>>2894063

Lack of sentience is a poor excuse, particularly when it is in a transient state. And life is more than just the waking moments.

But we all know that this has nothing to do with it, as abortion advocates do not limit themselves to the very early stages.

Their actual argument has always been that confinement to the mothers body entitles her to ownership of the unborn.

And regardless of what the state of mental development is, that this ownership entitles the mother to kill it.

To judge the value of a persons life by the utility they provide to their owner will never be right.


 No.2894685

Is leftism just globo homo, only you get a bigger slice of the pie?


 No.2894687

>>2893991

It's retarded to be pro abortion

Every argument for it is just muh feels


 No.2894690

do commies share their wives with their camrades?


 No.2894796

>>2894690

No. However, fascists seem to have no problem sharing theirs https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Sorge


 No.2894860

>>2894310

>Conflating sentience as an ability and being awake to imply mindless meat is the same as someone sleeping

Now that's next level sophistry.

>>2894687

It's retarded to be anti abortion

Every argument for it is just muh feels


 No.2894879

>>2894860

funny how there hasn't been a single feels argument here against abortion

However all the pro abortions arguments are feels and spooks


 No.2895032

>>2894879

>muh dehumanization of the weak

>brainless meat is people too

>Not feel




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