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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

A collective of people engaged in pretty much what the name suggests
Winner of the 67rd Attention-Hungry Games
/ara/ - Mothercon

January 2019 - 8chan Transparency Report
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Tags: leftism (CLICK HERE FOR MORE LEFTIST 8CHAN BOARDS), politics, activism, news

File: 1454368310550.jpg (12.22 KB, 349x238, 349:238, 1422430347342.jpg)

 No.518058

Backup boards:

https://bunkerchan.xyz/leftypol/

http://www.getchan.net/

Other boards:

>>>/anarcho/

>>>/marx/

>>>/freedu/

>>>/leftyweebpol/

>>>/gnussr/

>>>/leftpol/

Groups:

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/leftypol

http://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=leftypol

Leftybooru:

http://lefty.booru.org/

/leftypol/'s magazine:

http://bunkermag.org/

http://spectrerouge.com/

FAQ:

>How can you call yourselves leftist politically incorrect?

/leftypol/ posters are allowed to voice opinions that offend liberals, SJWs, and so on. All sects on the left are allowed to post on /leftypol/, leading to plenty of fighting and shitflinging between leftists, which other forums might ban. However, this was only a minor consideration in the naming of /leftypol/. Since the concept is simply a leftist version of /pol/, the entire name of /pol/ was retained.

>I'm not a leftist can I post here?

Non-leftists can come here to ask questions. Board moderation here is more focused on maintaining a good board index, so non-leftists have to be on better behavior as OP than they do as participants in someone else's thread. If you aren't b8ing or shitposting, your thread is likely to stay up.

>Are you liberals? Are you SJWs? Do you like Clinton? Are you all Zionists???

No liberals here. We hate the Democrat party.

As for Israel, leftism is anti-Zionist. It is not anti-Jew. Unlike /pol/, /leftypol/ fully supports Palestinians, and doesn't think they're "mudslimes."

Pretending to be an SJW or Zionist will very likely get you banned.

>Why did you leave /pol/ and why does this board exist?

/leftypol/ exists to help the 8chan community focus on leftist topics without being slid or flooded to death.

>Do you support gun control?

While posters on /leftypol/ have varying stances on gun control (training requirements, mental health checks, etc.), they are overwhelmingly in favor of arming the proletariat.

>Do you support "national" socialism?

No.

RULES:

Don't:

-spam

-post cuckshit, "commies BTFO," or any of that kind of shit

-post any porn depicting underage (including drawings)

-deny the problems of climate change or imperialism

-attempt to cloak reactionary politics in left-wing rhetoric (Strasserism, "Nazbol" Strasserism, National "Socialism," Zionism, "Die cis scum"/"Kill all white men" SJW shit)

-voice support for NATO intervention, or explicitly state that you support imperialism in any context

-incite specific acts of terrorism or similar acts (use your head, don't act like a fed)

Do:

-be respectful, ask questions, and know your place if you're a reactionary

-feel free to flame, shitpost, and be sectarian if you are a leftist (just keep it somewhat within reason)

mod action log:

https://8ch.net/log.php?board=leftypol

https://8ch.net/bans.html

Post last edited at

 No.1359416

Images have completely stopped showing up for me on my phone. I even tried using the site in another browser. Is anyone else having this problem?


 No.1364124

>>1359256

why does the thought of /leftypol/ 'raiding' /v/ or /pol/ instantly send users into a thread-derailing shitfit? Is it from people histrionically remembering the older intl/ints/freech raids (when all they ever raided was /int/ and /operate/)? /pol/ already has its own self-derailing problems when tards proudly go all the way to 244 fucking posts in a single thread.


 No.1364197

>>1364124

Because /pol/ and /v/ are safe spaces for autistic children.


 No.1372314

>>518058

Is bunkermag still being maintained?


 No.1380561

You guys understand that stuff like this:

>Attempting to cloak your hatred for foreigners and other races in pro-worker rhetoric, or similar ploys, might get you banned.

Is why you are explicitly and objectively SJWs, right? Do you get on the case of everyone who express hatred, or do you save it for white people? In either case, you're proliferating hatred by doing so.

Nonsensical and self-defeating "muh feels" ideology masked behind ten thousand layers of esoteric, impractical nonsense literature to make unemployed 23 year olds feel intelligent.

If your system of government is not simple enough to be comprehensively explained in three sentences, it will inevitably fail.


 No.1380587

>>1380561

>If your system of government is not simple enough to be comprehensively explained in three sentences, it will inevitably fail.

"Workers own the means of production." That's one sentence so suck it faggot.


 No.1380590

>>1372314

If you submit something it will probably get published if it's not too shabby


 No.1380642

File: 374d576470333cc⋯.png (142.69 KB, 396x631, 396:631, 374d576470333ccf0167003557….png)

>>1380561

>Do you get on the case of everyone who express hatred, or do you save it for white people?

Lurk moar faggot


 No.1380646

>>1380561

Also

>implying muh white race isn't the very definition of feels>reels


 No.1381069

>>1380587

That makes no sense. Some workers own the means of production right now, fucking dumbass.


 No.1381275

>>1381069

>Some

The vast majority don't.


 No.1381278

>>1380561

>If your system of government is not simple enough to be comprehensively explained in three sentences, it will inevitably fail.

DUMB

AND

PROUD


 No.1383382

Why can't we embed videos here?


 No.1383523

>>1383382

Youtube haxes your anus.


 No.1384375

tbh we need to do what the /pol/yps did to /r/the_donald. set shop on /r/socialism and bring them here as newfags


 No.1384401

>>1384375

I would prefer not to


 No.1384528

File: 5e86b1106cd5f67⋯.png (50.9 KB, 339x298, 339:298, 1372938218271.png)


 No.1389760

>>1384528

I am tired of seeing this image.


 No.1392554

>>1380587

t. Richard Wolff


 No.1393746

File: e72a33a07a152b7⋯.gif (254.88 KB, 357x270, 119:90, Noice.gif)

Can someone post the leftypol discord here plox


 No.1393920


 No.1393986

>>1393920

Nah not giving me anyhtin'


 No.1396074

File: 3cd6bfb647e1492⋯.mp4 (7.14 MB, 610x360, 61:36, tjxkyng1.mp4)

New User here.

I need to be taught about this new ideology, can someone give me a quick rundown please?


 No.1396096

>>1396074

The history of all heretofore existing society is the history of class struggle. Communism promises to bring an end to that history by eliminating class as we currently understand it.


 No.1404454

>>1404444

where dem quads


 No.1405248


 No.1407881

File: 38ac0e3c34b3dc0⋯.png (504 B, 16x11, 16:11, KPD 02.png)

KPD FLAG


 No.1409084

>>1407881

after 1 year we still have no GDR flag

what makes you believe we'll get one for the KPD (which i'd much prefer)?


 No.1409086


 No.1412075

I'm left-leaning, how do I go further left?


 No.1414251

>>1412075

u walk forward lmao


 No.1427412

bourgeois

noun, plural bourgeois.

1.a member of the middle class.

2.a person whose political, economic, and social opinions are believed to be determined mainly by concern for property values and conventional respectability.

3.a shopkeeper or merchant.

adjective

4.belonging to, characteristic of, or consisting of the middle class.

5.conventional; middle-class.

6.dominated or characterized by materialistic pursuits or concerns.

bourgeoisie

noun

1.the bourgeois class.

2.(in Marxist theory) the class that, in contrast to the proletariat or wage-earning class, is primarily concerned with property values

It's not hard.


 No.1427721

>>1380590

I quite like that piece I did on power, state and myth. You guys should hurry up and let me know if you want revisions, or don't want it so I can put it somewhere else. I submitted that like a month ago.


 No.1433281

>>1427721

Sorry about the wait fam. You did a good job.

http://bunkermag.org/power-state-infinite-hunger/


 No.1437680

You fags got a tl;dr version of Communist Manifesto? I tried reading the whole thing verbatim, but Marx, or whoever wrote the fucking thing, is an old windbag who goes on and on and on and won't shut the fuck up after he already made his point. I want the cliff notes.


 No.1439110

>>1437680

tl;dr: free shit lmao

But yeah we could actually do well with a Communist Manifesto that is updated to 2017


 No.1444109

>>1437680

The Principles of Communism, by Engels (1847)

https://marxists.catbull.com/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm

Very short FAQ written by Engels 170 years ago.

Try reading it and say what you don't like.


 No.1446060

>>1444109

Maybe I'm a fucking retard, but I don't quite follow the grand scheme here. So, they want to abolish free market competition and divert all means of production such that everyone gets their fair share, but that's just a basic idea on paper, the specifics of which are not divulged. It's all pretty vague, if you ask me. I do agree that industrial capitalism is too unfettered for its own good, but I also think that a free market and competition are good things, as long as there are sanctions put in place that prevent dipshits from gaming the system. Government kickbacks, incredible tax cuts or tax havens for the rich, and lobbyists who fight for corporate interest at the expense of every day citizens, for example, are things that should be thought about by great minded economists and incorporated into our government, such that the system stays fair. There's such a thing as earning too much money.

In short, industrial capitalism is too fucking efficient; it needs regulatory stipulations, and doesn't need some lofty ideals about everyone holding hands together and working like some god damn homogeneous unit.

>hurr durr The Communist Ministry of Fairness will have everything all figured out, and some worker's rights representative will ensure that you get every single piece of production that is to your name

Sounds like a pipe dream. Who's going to regulate the regulators? Isn't that sort of communal system prone to the same weaknesses as our current system?

>don't you see that regulation of a capitalist market is equally susceptible to failure, given that corruption and selfishness motivate people to game the system?

Yeah, but it's that same greed that keeps people in check, and it's through that greed that socialist ideals can flourish. The capitalist needs human resources to modulate the means of production, regardless of how efficient it is; therefore, it's within the banker's interest to ensure that his people are capable of providing their services, such that his product, and therefore wealth, can be sufficiently generated. So, competition, motivated by greed, breeds the ascent towards excellence, but it can also be used for the sake of humanitarian purposes. If the capitalist becomes a tyrant in a free marketplace, his human capital is free to find other opportunities, which can itself be a natural deterrent against inhumanity.


 No.1446178

File: cd94ed8f72bc49f⋯.gif (16.27 KB, 120x120, 1:1, it doesn't work like that ….gif)

>>1446060

>In short, industrial capitalism is too fucking efficient

At concentrating wealth, yeah.

>If the capitalist becomes a tyrant in a free marketplace, his human capital is free to find other opportunities

lmao


 No.1446763

>>1446060

> Maybe I'm a fucking retard, but I don't quite follow the grand scheme here.

You wanted cliff notes. This is an introductory text, that was considered insufficient and Manifesto got written instead.

Keep in mind, Marxism itself is a philosophy, historical analysis, and economic theory. Lenin in The Three Sources and Three Component Parts of Marxism (also short and also recommended) outlines it all:

https://marxists.catbull.com/archive/lenin/works/1913/mar/x01.htm

I'd say it is impossible to understand Marxism (fully "follow the grand scheme", so as to say) without doing research on all areas.

> So, they want to abolish free market competition

Not exactly. Competition itself can exist (ex: Soviets had so-called "Socialist competition"). What needs to be abolished is market exchange (of industrial goods; you can keep your toothbrush - that's was a meme).

Basically, industrial economy and competition (that arises from free market exchange) don't really mesh together: Capitalists are forced to (as you say) "game the system" and abuse workers (what is commonly known as "class struggle"). This is what Marxist economic theory is about. Reading first chapter of of the first volume of Capital is often recommended as it is not overly complicated:

https://marxists.catbull.com/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch01.htm

But it's not sufficient, obviously. Otherwise there wouldn't be 32 more chapters and 2 (arguably, 3) more volumes.

> that everyone gets their fair share

It's not about "fair" share as such - Marx clarifies this and other misunderstandings in Critique of Gotha Programme:

https://marxists.catbull.com/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/index.htm

Primary reason for Central Planning (to be precise: "abolition of private property"; it's just some people started to interpret this as "co-ops everywhere", which is not what was meant) is to prevent people from being forced to "game the system".

It is only after this it becomes possible for everyone to gets their "fair" (see CoGP above) share. Until everyone can get whatever they want, of course.

> [market works] as long as there are sanctions put in place that prevent dipshits from gaming the system.

Except Marxist historical analysis (historical materialism) in no uncertain terms says that sanctions won't work. Not in the long run, at least. Historically, it is economic relations (Basis) that influence socio-political (Superstructure).

I.e. however great statesmen you have, "human nature" will take over and fuck things up. Because that's how things work.

> that's just a basic idea on paper, the specifics of which are not divulged.

Well, yes. There could be no "One True Program" that would fit every nation at all times and in all circumstances. Most specifics got rendered obsolete after 170 years - unless you really hate those French Royalists who fled 1848 revolution, of course. But Manifesto has those - and some are relevant. For example, US still has some weird shit (Federal Reserve) instead of proper Central Bank.

If I understood you correctly, what you want would be political programs of modern Marxist parties, not Marxism itself. It is a method for creating and evaluating those specifics you want.

> In short, industrial capitalism is too fucking efficient

You logic has progressed way too far down the path of post-truth for me to follow and I have to set some ground rules. Definition of "efficiency", for starters.

If you mean Capitalism is "efficient at extorting wealth" - then yes. Capitalism is very efficient at extortion. However, if evaluated from more practical perspective (satisfying actual wants/needs - see Marx's Capital on "use-value"), it is extremely inefficient in this respect.

Capitalism creates fake wealth (not unlike money of Monopoly game) and then substitutes real wealth with it. Consequently, what you are really shown as a measure of efficiency of Capitalism is not the real wealth, but the bullshit fake wealth.

>hurr durr The Communist Ministry of Fairness will have everything all figured out, and some worker's rights representative will ensure that you get every single piece of production that is to your name

And we got to the strawmannig.


 No.1458092

>>1446763

Marxism has failed dozens and dozens of times and has never once been sustainable because of the compelling force of the government. People have historically moved away from central planned economies since antiquity you dumb champagne socialist literally kill yourself.


 No.1459422

>>1458092

Lol this idiot doesn't know about Incan socialism


 No.1459506

File: 83e522a12f2b750⋯.png (161.12 KB, 640x347, 640:347, incan socialism 01.png)

File: 827313ba1c19fb8⋯.png (941.09 KB, 2169x1412, 2169:1412, incan socialism 02.png)

File: 82ad7df13285753⋯.png (692.56 KB, 2000x624, 125:39, incan socialism 03.png)

File: 95b9fbc7d303b7a⋯.png (99.36 KB, 996x472, 249:118, incan socialism 04.png)

File: 8a41420b0e3afdf⋯.png (134.1 KB, 985x674, 985:674, incan socialism 05.png)

>>1458092

kys my dood B)


 No.1459896

>>1459422

>>1459506

lmao incan socialism. dude literally kill yourself the incans never heard of marx or the finer points of socialism. None of the systems in place in a western world your weird sub human microcosm isn't replicable in the 21st century


 No.1459914

File: 728c141637a54a7⋯.jpg (80.27 KB, 483x409, 483:409, 1228537184992.jpg)

>>1459896

>lmao incan socialism. dude literally kill yourself the incans never heard of marx or the finer points of socialism

Woah, you caught me. There's no escaping your laser guided insight.

>None of the systems in place in a western world your weird sub human microcosm isn't replicable in the 21st century

lol


 No.1460859

>>1459914

>I was only pretending to be retarded

Yea I know you're wrong too whatever to save face my guy


 No.1461027

File: 521f503b79de958⋯.png (23.64 KB, 240x143, 240:143, wake me up before you go g….png)

>>1460859

It was obviously a facetious remark you relentless dipshit. The central point is that the Inka had a centrally planned economy that produced massive surpluses of goods.


 No.1466230

☺ิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิdddddd


 No.1466255

>>1466230

Looks cool.


 No.1467242

>>735537

Only a less developed half of it.


 No.1474798

File: aa1d0b6b29e101b⋯.png (11.78 KB, 616x173, 616:173, uh oh.png)


 No.1475606

>>1474798

lol I thought you guys love immigration


 No.1476770

Someone please explain cultural marxism to me. I get loads of different definitions when I look it up.


 No.1476839

File: fbfe50875afd487⋯.webm (7.7 MB, 1440x1080, 4:3, le cultural bolshevism ma….webm)


 No.1477538

I wish more people were aware of the importance and utility of using sage more often for a tidy /leftypol/.


 No.1503619

>>1502505

No one cares about your gay chatroom


 No.1504805

>>1503619

Fucking this. Five other boards I browse regularly get discord spam. There's always faggots trying to leech users off of imageboards and into discords. I want to talk ON THE IMAGEBOARD not on some gay chat.


 No.1513752

>Fucking this. Five other boards I browse regularly get discord spam. There's always faggots trying to leech users off of imageboards and into discords. I want to talk ON THE IMAGEBOARD not on some gay chat.

Indeed. I wish 8chan board owners had morale and banned shills, especially NSA shills.


 No.1521415

What would you guys consider the 3 most important books that represent your ideas? I never gave 2 shits to politics, but I decided to start caring now, so assume I know literally nothing.

Also, out of simple curiosity, how does /leftypol/ sees the whole gamergate thing?


 No.1521496

>>1521415

They didn't go far enough tbh


 No.1523898

>>1521415

>Three more important books.

Depend a lot on who you ask.

If you look at a relatively broad overview of leftist thought, i'd say What is Property by Proudhon, Wage Labour an Capital by Marx (Das Kapital being for black belts), and The Next revolution by Bookchin are entry level stuff of the largest tendencies of this view.

>how does /leftypol/ sees the whole gamergate thing?

Looking back it didn't accomplish much in itself, but it was my first exposure to idpol libtardation, and accessory it thanks to the first exodus that i found out this website the this board.


 No.1523899

>>1523898

tendencies of this board*


 No.1525998

File: 2ecf02ae9f4ff28⋯.jpg (82.93 KB, 933x445, 933:445, obamacare-taxpayer-bailout….jpg)

Socialism BTFO!

Obamacare 'Explosion' Could Come Soon… Why? Because Obamacare Depends On Taxpayer Bailouts!

After a stunning 'defeat' last week, delivered at the hands of his own party no less, Trump took to twitter to predict the imminent 'explosion' of Obamacare.

"ObamaCare will explode and we will all get together and piece together a great healthcare plan for THE PEOPLE. Do not worry!"

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 25, 2017

"The Democrats will make a deal with me on healthcare as soon as ObamaCare folds - not long. Do not worry, we are in very good shape!"

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 28, 2017

As it turns out, that 'explosion' could come faster than anyone really expects as legislators and health insurers have to make several critical decisions about the 2018 plan year over the next 2 months which could seal Obamacare's fate.

As the Atlanta Journal Constitution points out today, the Trump administration has until May 22nd to decide whether they will continue to pursue the Obama administration's appeal to provide subsidies to insurers who participate in the federal exchanges.

Of course, any decision to remove those subsidies would likely result in yet another massive round of premium hikes and further withdrawals from the already crippled exchanges where an astounding number of counties across the country have already been cut to just 1 health insurance provider. And, as we've pointed out before, higher rates = lower participation = deterioration of risk pool = higher rates….and the cycle just repeats until it eventually collapses!

As background, in 2014, House Republicans sued the Obama administration over the constitutionality of the cost-sharing reduction payments (a.k.a. "taxpayer funded healthcare subsidies"), which had not been appropriated by Congress. Republicans won the initial lawsuit but the Obama administration subsequently appealed and now Trump's administration can decide whether to pursue the appeal or not.

The Trump administration and House lawmakers have to report to the judge this spring. If the Trump administration drops the appeal, it would mean the subsidies would stop being paid — a huge blow to the marketplaces and millions of people. If lawmakers wanted the payments to continue, they would have to find a way to fund them. One opportunity for that is coming up fast, the continuing resolution that must be passed by April 28. If the Trump administration continues the lawsuit, it will be in the odd position of fighting its own party.

The CBO estimates the payments would total roughly $10 billion in 2018.

As we've noted before, several large insurers, including UnitedHealth Group and Aetna, have already made the decision to exit Obamacare due to financial losses. Now, Molina Healthcare is also pondering whether it would be able to continue to participate in the absence of federal subsidies.

https://archive.fo/5TiQA

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-29/obamacare-explosion-could-come-may-22nd-heres-why


 No.1526050

>>1525998

>Socialism BTFO!

>Socialism is when the government does stuff

/pol/acks never learn.


 No.1526498

>>1525998

Obamacare is a fundamentally right-wing idea, even for american politics.

You've been bamboozled.


 No.1534927

The OP should probably be edited to clarify that the /leftypol/ board on Bunkerchan is supposed to be the backup board. Doesn't really matter at this point, though.


 No.1537575

File: ba4a703b3caa6b3⋯.png (59.87 KB, 480x700, 24:35, Lazy_Timetravel.png)

This obviously has nothing to do with leftypol, but please allow it because its very important and Im trying to make it viral. Its my plan to survive suicide.


 No.1538504

>>1537575

protip your mind emulated is not necessarily you. you'll still be dead.


 No.1541813

>>848197

trotskyites are opportunists


 No.1542145

>>848197

From the theoretical perspective trots fully agree with Lenin's ideas of running the revolutionary state, functioning of the Party and so on while leftcoms reject said ideas, either parts of it or as a whole. From the perspective of praxis trots also agree with Lenin's demand for participation in the parliamentary democracy, ultras on the other hand completely dismiss said parliamentarism and opt for other forms of organization, which is really the main reason why you have Bordigists and councilists grouped under one term despite their blatant differences

>>848253

That's true in case of libertarian marxists, but for example Bordigists are vanguardists, they even dismiss in-party democracy in favour of organic centralism.


 No.1543926

File: b7412da7402b992⋯.png (352.23 KB, 1848x441, 88:21, Underdeveloped.PNG)

Why are you considering migrating to endchan?

At a glance it doesn't seem to have moved past 8chan in development at all. It looks worse, runs slower and misses quite a few of the same features.

If you're in contact with the site owner you should badger him to iron out the glaring problems that stopped posters using it while 8chan was down.


 No.1544912

>>1543926

endchan != bunkerchan, although they use the same backend, the front end is different.

i personally am interested in writing a faithful 4chin frontend but web dev drains me


 No.1545592

what does the four leaf clover mean


 No.1546815

>>1543926

It was just a BO having a PMS, it should pass soon.


 No.1548413

This is not related to anything, but what is the purpose of anchoring a sticky?


 No.1548471

>>1548413

Probably so it stays at its current position.


 No.1549914

what does the /leftypol/ utopia look like?

how do you want to achieve it?

are there any points /leftypol/ and /pol/ generally stand united on?


 No.1549953

>>1549914

For a point on which /leftypol/ and /pol/ can stand united on to exist, there first need to be a point on which /leftypol/ can stand united on.


 No.1551862

File: c70b1771ef933b8⋯.png (339.43 KB, 418x674, 209:337, you gotta be shittin me.png)

>>1549914

>are there any points /leftypol/ and /pol/ generally stand united on?

lol nah


 No.1552223

File: 4b69dc020744d70⋯.gif (906.8 KB, 499x269, 499:269, u36ZyJI.gif)

>>1549914

>what does the /leftypol/ utopia look like?

Generally it's classless, stateless, and moneyless. Mine also involves transhumanism and constant spontaneous orgies

>how do you want to achieve it?

There's a billion books about that and they all contradict each other

>are there any points /leftypol/ and /pol/ generally stand united on?

Pic related


 No.1552668

>>1549914

The /leftypol/ utopia varies wildly from poster to poster but can be distinguished from the mainstream left primarily through its radicalism. Many here are socialists in the original sense and want to implement workers' ownership of the means of production rather the system of private property and its defence (i.e. capitalism) that exists currently.

/pol/ and /leftypol/ are generally pretty unified against unnecessary wars (i.e. the US-Syria situation right now). I would have said a couple years ago that we're both hold contempt for identity politics, but now /pol/ seems to be openly embracing a white identity politics, so you can't really say that anymore. Aside from that we're both pretty populist/anti-establishment, but that's basically it tbh.


 No.1557931

>>1552668

>utopia

IDEALISTS GET OUT REEEE


 No.1563808

>>1549914

>are there any points /leftypol/ and /pol/ generally stand united on?

Giant zionist capitalists steal ridiculous amounts of money from the people, do bad things on a daily basis and must be removed from positions of power so that an economy with no theft could be established.

There is a theory that is actually becoming more and more widespread and accepted: communists and nationalists were divided by the abovementioned zionists to fight each other instead of the common enemy. Above everything their ideologies are unappealable to masses because of media demonization and we both would've been more successful if we united and removed ideology as the primary moving force and instead focused on dealing with the common enemy.


 No.1563821

>>1563808

>Removing bad people will make the problems go away.

That's not the reasoning of the majority of /leftypol/.


 No.1564423

>>1563808

>common

capitalist shlomos are where both board agree, but since /leftypol/ is not favour of turning all jews into a detergent and barely any /pol/lacks have a non-shit definition of socialism(most of them actually advocate class collaboration kek), it would be hard to reconcile those two

I'm kind of fine with Asserists at least when compared to other right wingers, but they are critically endangered species anyways


 No.1564912

>>518058

>/leftypol/ welcomes debate from non-leftists

>Attempting to cloak your hatred for foreigners

Last I checked, any criticism of Islam was considered 'hatred for foreigners', according to most leftists.

And while I understand what Anarcho-capitalists want out of the destruction of national identities, I can't help but think you people are the kinds of people paving the way for the E.U./Bilderberg group to stomp all over Europe, undoing hundreds of years of social progress.

Every attempt at communism has led in genocide and autocracy.

Mao and Stalin have killed 100 million people, together.

What are your thoughts on that, hmm?

You think that can't happen again because we're 'civilized'?

Anarchy and communism work on paper.

They don't work in real life, where people always pick a pack leader.

Feel free to counter-argue.


 No.1564936

>>1564912

Feel free to get some arguments and make a thread, idiot


 No.1564957

>>1564936

Consider:

>/leftypol/ welcomes debate from non-leftists

>/leftypol/ welcomes debate from non-leftists

Sure doesn't seem like it.


 No.1565036

>>1564957

If you can make a thread without sperging out about niggers and kikes then you won't get banned

If you're just here to try and tell us how inferior non white people are then you're not going to last long


 No.1565066

>>1563821

We are obviously wishing to remove central banks with the zionists too. The banking system ran by gentiles instead of jews and chinese would be a softer tyranny, but it's still tyranny


 No.1565097

>>1565036

>If you can make a thread without sperging out about niggers and kikes then you won't get banned

I think you're badly confusing me with someone else, pal.

I actually have an add on that blocks this site because I think the entire site is a cesspool of negativity.

But I'm here today because I feel I can handle it.

So, you gonna respond to this:

>>1564912

Or just ad hominem this entire time?


 No.1565134

>>1564912

>Last I checked, any criticism of Islam was considered 'hatred for foreigners', according to most leftists.

Islam must be criticized because all bad ideas must be criticized, and Islam is like the mother of bad ideas.

Why someone criticises Islam is an independent matter, and in turn shapes what useful critiques they can make of it. If it's from the perspective of abolishing class exploitation or from enlightenment secular values, it's going to be able to reach different and more useful conclusions than, say, theocratic ethnonationalists that find the key or only issue to be that it isn't their theocratic ethnonationalism. A perspective of "hatred for foreigners" is a less useful way to criticize Islam, because it misses a lot, and assumes too much.

I agree with you that mainstream social liberals have successfully misframed a great deal of valid criticism as "hatred" to dismiss it out of hand, and trying to tease out the "wrong" motivations from someone's claims in lieu of refuting or accepting them is dishonest. I wouldn't even call it morally wrong per se to hate foreigners. It's just that insisting on an a priori "humans vs orcs" framework risks obscuring the real causes of the social ills associated to immigration, which we can study through the fundamental economic incentives people experience.

>I can't help but think you people are the kinds of people paving the way for the E.U./Bilderberg group to stomp all over Europe

Capitalism is really what has eroded national identity. Neoliberal globalism and the "one world market" are a natural culmination of the bourgeoisie's economic incentives. They don't need leftists to erode national identity in the pursuit of their goals, because they already do so on their own through both policy and control of cultural institutions


 No.1565179

>>1565134

Holy crap, an actual, proper response.

I'm genuinely happy about this. I really wasn't expecting it.

>mainstream social liberals have successfully misframed a great deal of valid criticism as "hatred" to dismiss it out of hand

I agree. I have no counter argument with this.

>insisting on an a priori "humans vs orcs" framework risks obscuring the real causes of the social ills associated to immigration

I half-agree, but still think the loss of selection process for immigration has done and will continue to do enough damage to where we can just plain call it a bad idea.

>Capitalism is really what has eroded national identity.

Lack of regulation of megacorps, I'd say.

Capitalism, itself can work fine– (well, better than communism has ever worked).

>Neoliberal globalism and the "one world market" are a natural culmination of the bourgeoisie's economic incentives.

I have a hypothesis that it's the over-sheltered nature of 'rat utopia' that's causing the 'accept and tolerate, remove all the borders' shenanigans.

Psychological more than political–

The same psychology that makes the 'neoliberals' think disarming the citizens is a good idea and can't lead to truly horrible things like genocide, gulags and tyranny.


 No.1565213

>>1565179

Mouse utopia, I mean.


 No.1565256

>>1564912

>Mao and Stalin

Capitalism is a global system. Its contradictions exist on the world stage, and it's all about the bourgeoisie responding to incentives. The relative advantage gained by a group of capitalists in acquiring cheaper resources, forcibly if the outcome financially justifies the cost, led to colonization, where the entire world came to be dominated by capitalists of a few nations. You can't be free of these contradictions simply by cordoning yourself off in some corner of the world and declaring capitalism to "no longer exist" there, because there remain economic incentives for the bourgeoisie to access that region's resource and labor markets. Markets tend to expand in this way because market expansion coincides with cheaper resources or labor acquisition, and greater volume of sales. As stability of the overall system is itself inherently valuable to the bourgeoisie, it's in their interest to undermine and subvert opposing powers (both those capitalists of other nations, as we saw culminate in two world wars before the western bourgeoisie was more "collaboratively" restructured, and those nations which presume to "opt out" of the system.) Leaders who insist on maintaining a "part-capitalist-part-not" world preside over a sort of stable instability, and in indefinite, "status quo" opposition to the historical forces that point towards destroying their supposedly "non-capitalist" enclave, they are both more able and more incentivized to use repressive, anti-democratic measures and exert their own violent control over the productive forces akin to the bourgeoisie's. Some level of violence is in essence needed under these circumstances to match the international bourgeoisie's violence in the same spheres, to prevent the domination of this society by the capitalist governments of other nations (remember, the bourgeoisie or its agents like the state tend to use violence when appropriate to their interests according to cost-benefit analysis.) The point here is that the choice between "anti-capitalist domination" and "capitalist domination" is not only an undesirable but also a false one. The solution consists not of making the right balance between the two choices, but of changing the circumstances themselves that underlie the limited choices. This means resolving the contradictions of global capitalism and liquidating the whole bourgeoisie.

The economic incentives to own the means of production are not an inherent fact of life but a product of circumstance, and these circumstances can and must be changed. The growth of the productive forces mean that so many areas of socially necessary life can be, and have been, automated or brought to the scale where the labor of very few supports the whole of society. But we have masses of unnecessary jobs, inspectors of inspectors and manufacturers of parts for inspectors to inspect inspectors, because capitalism requires mass consumption of what it produces to avert crisis. These jobs advance a very slim competitive advantage to the bourgeoisie, but next to no actual, socially necessary or socially useful labor. The conditions exist to meet worldwide social need, and reorganizing the productive forces around social need as a matter of course would eliminate the basic incentives of the bourgeoisie to remain bourgeois (i.e. today, "lose control of the productive forces" means "become a prole and need to sell your labor power to survive," which means a sort of financial insecurity, loss of control and dependence on others for survival.)

Socialism can only truly be "achieved" in just such an irreversible sense. If it's reversible owing to some historical force, we haven't truly resolved the contradictions of capitalism


 No.1565291

>>1565179

>I half-agree, but still think the loss of selection process for immigration has done and will continue to do enough damage to where we can just plain call it a bad idea.

>Lack of regulation of megacorps, I'd say.

A key idea in Marxist theory is that the state is a device of class rule, as I've already implied. Social liberals identify under-regulation and ancaps identify over-regulation as problems, and they're both right. Both under- and over-regulation are mismatches between the bourgeois interests determining policy and the actual social need. When we have immense regulations on a given sector, say, food biotechnology, regulatory compliance creates large barriers to entry and prevents small firms from competing, so that the market remains dominated by a few giant firms - to the ultimate benefit of their shareholders. When we have under-regulation, companies damage social welfare because it is profitable to do so. I don't believe it's possible for the capitalist state to properly regulate because it doesn't serve the people, but instead the bourgeoisie.

The rolled-back "selection process" in immigration certainly has been undesirable in some ways and has caused some damage, I don't dispute that, but again we have to look at the most fundamental forces at work. People usually immigrate for economic reasons, i.e. according to rational self-interest. In the absence of regulations immigration would explode and the world would rapidly "equilibrate." Historically these regulations have been made either to protect the bourgeoisie's interests of cultural and national identity, which many people do appreciate, you're right, as long as they weren't overridden by economic incentives as they are today. Restrictive immigration also serves as a concession to the proles, i.e. "we will protect you from competition for your jobs, and you can get a higher wage from it" akin to welfare, minimum wage and so on, which all serve to stabilize the system.

The issue with immigration is that there again exists a contradiction between immigrants' and native workers' economic incentives - immigrate to get better wages and conditions, but depress wages and bargaining power in the host country. This issue traces to the fact that the means to do socially necessary labor, an essential fact of life, are gatekept by private owners - the bourgeoisie - who seek profit above general social welfare. In their absence, where everyone has the opportunity to earn the full fruits of their own labor with the productive forces, economic migration will become obsolete and immigration will be due primarily to genuine appreciation for the local culture and desire to assimilate, family/social ties, and so on. There's some graphic out there that has a guy say something like "I'm a devout muslim and want to live under sharia law. Now which country is the best for me?" where he passes up Saudi Arabia and several other countries before settling on Germany. And this argument has a point. Aren't the economic conditions which lead people into incompatible cultures they resent, themselves inhumane?

>over-sheltered nature

Perhaps, but I try to connect all these to the fundamental material forces in society and not merely to a defective cultural fabric. Culture is itself a product of material conditions and class relations, too. Is it possible that cultural institutions have taken a sheltering character as a partial means to liberalize immigration policy, and in the name of bourgeois self-interest?


 No.1565298

>>1565291

>themselves inhumane?

I should have added "to both parties" here


 No.1567472

Maybe we should remove Obama from the FAQ already, it's not like he really matters anymore.


 No.1572639

Wouldn't it make more sense to put the backup website in the announcement section instead of making a stickied post? It's not like 8chan's tags feature has been working for past couple months.

Just jam in a <br/> if you want shit on a second line.


 No.1581020

>>1572639

The BO is intentionally being incompetent.

Those tags haven't even worked for over a year, there's no reason to keep them there.


 No.1583520

>>1543926

>doesn't seem to have moved past 8chan in development

There's a quite a bit of difference between the two:

>350mb uploads

>no cp

>i2p support

>real servers

>better admins

>encrypted disks

>overboard

>multiboard

>no required captchas

>live catalog

>no jim

>multiple domains

>no cloudflare

>Eye of sauron ( https://www.endchan.xyz/.static/sauron.html )

>better ID system

>realtime posting

>It looks worse

How so?

>should badger him to iron out the glaring problems

Such as a couple of minor missing features? They've even added a bunch since 8ch was down.

>that stopped posters using it while 8chan was down.

We still have plenty of 8chan refugees


 No.1584534

>>1565213

>Capitalism, itself can work fine– (well, better than communism has ever worked).

Is that why it has experienced repeated catastrophic failures every five to ten years for almost its entire history

>>1565213

"mouse utopia" is meme science my lad


 No.1595245

>>1565291

>In the absence of regulations immigration would explode and the world would rapidly "equilibrate."

And since China, India and Africa hold half the world's population, it's reasonable to assume, the quality of life in 1st world countries would drastically degrade from an overly quick 'equilibration'.

>A key idea in Marxist theory is that the state is a device of class rule, as I've already implied.

I think that human natural tendency toward serving self-interests and desire makes communism IMPOSSIBLE without Von Neumann Nanites and particle manipulation–

That is, the ability to make whatever you want, provided the required elements are available.

Without 'infinite wealth' as I call it, it will ALWAYS devolve into a caste system/statism, just like the U.S.S.R., China, Cuba, Vietnam, N. Korea, etc.

People will always pick a leader, and that leader will always be unfair.

The closest we've come to fairness is the U.S. Constitution and even that is being ignored whenever convenient.


 No.1595252

>>1584534

"mouse utopia" is meme science my lad

>Opinions


 No.1597151

>>1584534

>"mouse utopia" is meme science my lad

You just need to look at the collapsing native birth-rates in Western countries/SK and Japan to know that there's at the very least a kernel of truth in the mouse utopia experiments re: population density and urbanisation

I mean really, what's the alternative explanation?

>In late capitalism *sniff* the mind of the worker is so consumed by the contradicshins of capitalishm *sniff* that he no longer wants even to reproduce, but merely to *sniff* consume more


 No.1597158

>>1595245

> think that human natural tendency toward serving self-interests and desire makes communism IMPOSSIBLE

Communism isnt 'necessarially 'lets all share and help each other out'.

although you're wrong about human nature. It isnt strictly self interested. we're social creatures with a strong ense of empathy, strong community and familial ties have always been a part of every human culture because they're innate to our psychology. and far left ideas in general dont rely on people helping each other out and sharing any more than thats just a part of human nature.


 No.1604951

>>1597158

It doesn't matter if some people have empathy.

It just takes a small number of sociopaths to warp communism into Stalinism/Maoism.

The mass graves of the past were dug from the good intentions of communists.


 No.1605167

>>1604951

oh fuck off


 No.1609698

>>1605167

What a nice, rational and intelligent rebuttal.


 No.1624298

File: 4b27d4288c8c952⋯.jpg (32.74 KB, 400x476, 100:119, 4b27d4288c8c952e862d8516bc….jpg)

File: 958017a31e73a99⋯.png (608.56 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, B36532u.png)

My friends its the traditional spring festival and workers day! Drink a lot of vodka and be merry!


 No.1624317

>>1624298

Your first image contradicts your post. Also:

>tradition

Spooky.


 No.1624349

>>1624317

Life is hard work or struggle for survival. Every working man deserves his holidays.


 No.1625387

>>1624349

But you do realize that we do need to keep working endlessly to bring about the end of Capitalism, right? And that stopping and smelling the flowers and dancing around a maypole like a fag will just prolong Capitalism's existence?


 No.1629161

File: 35d782b669bceda⋯.png (144.7 KB, 291x415, 291:415, what kinda man abandons hi….png)

>>1625387

Your reasoning is flawed.


 No.1629937

>>1629161

How? Why should you stop working toward the Party's goals if you still have life in you? If you have nothing more to supply to the Party, then you might as well see the truth and die.


 No.1631822

>>1629937

Gosh I dunno how your class cucked analysis could be wrong


 No.1639215

>>1631822

Haha u sed cucked n1ce 1ne bruh

*pats you on your homosexual ass*

Oh yeah! You like that? You like making other dudes laugh at the same buzzwords, so you must lyke getting your ass grabbed by dudes right faggit?


 No.1639824

File: d66ac58befb3187⋯.png (25.57 KB, 169x259, 169:259, BillyH[1].png)


 No.1643652


 No.1654844

leftypol discord: https://discord.gg/mREbnqv

(/leftypol/ doesn't have an official discord)

 No.1655222

File: e35a78dc46a1a2e⋯.png (128.32 KB, 245x256, 245:256, screen_shot_2016_06_19_at_….png)

>>1654844

don't go there ever

it's owned by a fatty snow, jew discourse and has trannies and pedophiles in moderation

endless drama and coups


 No.1655388

File: 28bb07c80890b06⋯.jpg (24.96 KB, 377x364, 29:28, 28bb07c80890b064c635c0e511….jpg)

>>1655222

>jew

Something wrong with that, /pol/ ?


 No.1656722

>>1655222

>endless drama a coups

this is supposed to make me not want to go there?


 No.1659446

>>936068

Does someone have this Irish pic?


 No.1665527

>>1659446

google filename


 No.1666936

>>518058

>Hello and welcome to /leftypol/. Please check the board tags for related boards. These are our groups:

>http://steamcommunity.com/groups/leftypol

>http://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=leftypol

>http://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=leftypol

>#leftypol

Nobody uses this IRC channel. Everyone is either on Rizon#bunkerchan or the Discord ( https://discord.gg/mREbnqv ).


 No.1667403

>>1666936

🍀🍀🍀Discord🍀🍀🍀


 No.1667842

I think the board is being slid, threads are being bumped without any posts being made. (because they were deleted)

I don't know if mods have the power to fix it but it's happening.


 No.1667845

>>1667842

Referring to >>1660463 specifically because it happened now (you can look at the post's timing), but there's probably more.


 No.1669869

>>1667842

>I don't know if mods have the power to fix it but it's happening.

It's the mods who are doing it, dawg.


 No.1672817

>>1669869

>It's the mods that are doing it

Skeptical.png


 No.1684275


 No.1689175

Is there a way to change flags without posting? Whenever I navigate to a new page, the flag defaults to whichever one I had selected the last time I posted, which often leads to me accidentally leaving an ironic flag on when I'm trying to be taken seriously. The statement "whoops, accidentally left my shitposting flag on" seems to be fairly common around here, so I don't think I'm the only one with this problem.


 No.1698119

>>1689175

Maybe you should just stop shitposting


 No.1712759

ignore me, lloking for gets


 No.1712760

>>1711111


 No.1714228

Can somebody explain to a newfag what a tanky is?


 No.1714395

>>1714228

Stalinist


 No.1714693

Why do you ban Asserists posters


 No.1716891

>>1714693

Because they're Nazi cucks


 No.1723789

File: 5c49eb343a4e760⋯.png (39.61 KB, 169x236, 169:236, bawww.png)

>>1716891

>everyone who doesn't agree with me is a cuck and should be banned

Am I still on infinitechan or have I accidentally crossed into tumblr territory?


 No.1724932

>>1723789

Nah, you're just a fucking retard, the same as you've always been


 No.1739283

File: 7e4610c9cac5d58⋯.jpg (104.14 KB, 677x907, 677:907, 1496734097362.jpg)


 No.1739335

“It is the eternal struggle between these two principles — right and wrong — throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time; and will ever continue to struggle. The one is the common right of humanity, and the other the divine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says, "You toil and work and earn bread, and I'll eat it." No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle.”

― Abraham Lincoln, The Lincoln-Douglas Debates


 No.1751280

File: 3b3f813f4da1beb⋯.png (184.97 KB, 500x566, 250:283, and-all-i-wanted-for-valen….png)

File: 8f5f9608262524d⋯.png (198.43 KB, 500x623, 500:623, i-didnit-sleep-i-want-to-b….png)


 No.1754846


 No.1756590

does anybody have that ms paint meme of the crying stormfag wearing a white pride shirt?


 No.1757102

File: 619ec86a8816658⋯.jpg (15.74 KB, 250x250, 1:1, thN6XHLMWJ.jpg)


 No.1784587

>>1777777


 No.1792570

File: c931b302548080c⋯.png (162.59 KB, 5016x2508, 2:1, syndicalism.png)

Are syndicalists welcome here? In particular, national syndicalists. I've seen that I don't fit in on /pol/ and I want to know if I'm welcome on /leftypol/


 No.1792817

>>1792570

start a thread about it and find out


 No.1793020

>>1792570

We accept nazbols so I guess we'll take pretty much anyone.


 No.1794367

File: 680c39b7df8876c⋯.png (136.17 KB, 737x276, 737:276, evil smirk.png)

>>1792570

>national


 No.1794635

>>1792570

syndicalism is welcome but you'll be bullied for the nationalism


 No.1794830

File: ed8941c80bd45d9⋯.jpg (15.3 KB, 309x346, 309:346, 1481210931677.jpg)

>>1794367

>>1794635

Pls no bully for nationalism. I'm new here.


 No.1795079

>>1794830

Syndicalists welcome, nationalists don't


 No.1802069

>>1794830

I won't bully you. But nationalism divides the working class and is therefore anti-leftist.


 No.1803583

Hi. I am a Marxist. I found leftypol through my Ecuadorian friend in a college class. I always liked how Latin Americans are more friendly to socialism than Americans, just wanted to give a shout out to the ones here (please immigrate more here!).

I believe Marxism is feminist because it equalizes and eliminates muh privilege, and I think Marxism that isn't feminist is bourgeois Marxism, and that an integral part of male, bourgeois muh privilege is monogamy and patriarchal attitudes towards women in the home and workplace. Every Marxist guy I meet in my school clearly isn't comfortable with open relationships BUT THAT'S WHAT MARXISM IS! Why? Is leftypol different?


 No.1803605

>>1803583

I imagine the revisionist garbage you must be studying to utter shit like this.


 No.1803620

>>1803605

What the fuck are you talking about? I came to this conclusion after reading some of Engel's book about the family and some of Zaretksy.


 No.1803640

Lol at this bourgeois tankie that doesn't believe in sexual liberation and the communal raising of children.


 No.1803641

>>1803620

>open relationships BUT THAT'S WHAT MARXISM IS! Why? Is leftypol different?

This is unimportant in regards to the end of capitalism exploitation. Marxism should not be reduced to simple catchphrases, especially things that are absolutely irrelevant to the realization of communism. As well, the liberation of woman is implicit in Marxism, and calling oneself a feminist is simple to engage in partialist movements when this is already included.


 No.1803647

>>1803641

>This is unimportant in regards to the end of capitalism exploitation.

LOL! You accuse me of revisionism. And this projecting as well. I've never spammed any catchphrases. You're prejudiced against feminists (something all too common with tankies) when I started reading Marxism far before I was interested in any feminism. The realization of Communism directly involves in part the family unit that allows for the succession of muh privilege. People aren't betrothed or fixed to each other. It's a bourgeoisie invention, and it's obvious tankie prejudice to simply disregard that as irrelevant.


 No.1803663

>>1803647

Why do you keep calling me a tankie you moron? I said that to say that open relationships is what Marxism is, is absolutely idiotic because it goes far beyond such things, especially because that is secondary. What happens with feminists is that they all too often place their partialist struggles at the forefront rather than the only thing than can end the subjugation of woman, which is socialism, which are then coopted by capitalism because they are not necessarily its destruction, which is socialism.

All in all I can correctly diagnose you have never used a chan before or came straight from reddit because you say things that were never said, like calling me a tankie, saying I am prejudiced, or saying that I accused you of spamming.


 No.1803672

>>1803663

>Why do you keep calling me a tankie you moron? I said that to say that open relationships is what Marxism is, is absolutely idiotic because it goes far beyond such things, especially because that is secondary. What happens with feminists is that they all too often place their partialist struggles at the forefront rather than the only thing than can end the subjugation of woman, which is socialism, which are then coopted by capitalism because they are not necessarily its destruction, which is socialism.

Literally none of this is a refutation of what you said other than "it's not important." Good job. I don't pick doctrine from a cafeteria line like partialists, in fact, that is precisely what you're doing.

Right-wing Stalinists are keen on bourgeoisie attitudes towards women.


 No.1803681

>>1803672

>it's not important

I really meant to paraphrase your argument as

>it's not that important

You cannot deny one atom of the class struggle because they are fundamentally linked to each other in their exploitation.


 No.1803687

>>1803672

Sigh. I recommend you visit Marx so you can get a good look at what Marxism entails, because this is going to be a waste of time. I also recommend you stop projecting politics onto me, it makes you look like a complete liberal.


 No.1803694

>>1803687

Not one line of this is against what I said. You don't want to let go of your bourgeoisie attitudes towards women. I understand because as a political reality it would be a gradual process.

>Sigh

You accused me of being from Reddit lol.


 No.1803695

>>1803687

>visit Marx so you can get a good look at what Marxism entails

Nothing she said isn't Marxism.


 No.1803702

File: 6841f39b2074f47⋯.jpg (1010.92 KB, 3840x2160, 16:9, (you) bill.jpg)

>>1803694

>more projection and unsubstantiated statements

Here >>>/marx/.


 No.1805067

File: 34a901780c994b6⋯.gif (5.12 KB, 324x216, 3:2, ru}nbf1.gif)

you need to add a State Socialist flag


 No.1805706

>>1805067

miss me with that gay shit


 No.1818607

What does "polyp" mean. I understand it's somebody from /pol/ but where does the term actually oroginate


 No.1818971

>>1818607

biology.


 No.1822825

>>1818607

A polyp is some kind of tumor.


 No.1822943


 No.1863541

>>518058

how do i get flag


 No.1864138

>>1863541

Click [▶ Show post options & limits] and choose one from the drop-down menu. It says "None" by default.


 No.1864292

>>1864138

thanks comrade


 No.1864346


 No.1865204

Actually you guys don't sound too bad. We even share some sentiments (like the arming the common people). And I happy to see, that there is still reason on the left side. (Not that the right side is always reasonable or rational). I was beginning to fear that the left lost it mind due to the crazy and hysteric SJW's. You almost sound like the old-left. :p


 No.1870001

File: 0055de2cee7dd2f⋯.png (1.26 MB, 3814x2400, 1907:1200, 1312059340.png)


 No.1870664


 No.1872715

>>1870664

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧test🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧


 No.1876026

epic


 No.1891760


 No.1899993

File: ae0e22b62faa3f2⋯.png (53.38 KB, 678x344, 339:172, image.png)

Can some Russian tell me if this song is (ironically or unironically) nazbol?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy0iHJdWfEg

It's a song that randomly showed up in my youtube recommended video after watching too much pop music

All I understand is that it's about MOTHERLAND


 No.1900056

>>1899993

Letov was an actual unironic nazbol when he wrote that song

Translated a little bit from the video description:

>this is one of the most tragic songs, that I have written. A song about how the motherland gets off its knees except in reality the motherland isn't getting up but is sinking in shit deeper and deeper, without escape. And to sing about how the motherland rises in spite of that, is very powerful. These albums were written after the events of 1993, October when the whole world saw our Russian existentialism. When a small group stood their ground but was shot at with tanks and everyone thought they would win. Albums essentially about when a man completely loses, yet sings about victory, and wins.


 No.1906744

can anyone drop me a discord link?


 No.1909639

>>1899993

ironically. It mocks overly patriotic individuals who are too blinded by nationalism to the point of celebrating a pyrrhic victory, arguably an accurate portrayal of the dick measuring attitude that we once had and still have in the post USSR


 No.1911544

What is the historical reason Strass.er is filtered ? Was there an influx of Asserites somewhen in the past ?


 No.1913180

File: 7b9ac59fe9f876b⋯.jpg (68.5 KB, 1400x910, 20:13, A German prisoner of war e….jpg)


 No.1913182

>>1911544

We used to get people here somewhat frequently trying to say that we had common cause with s.trassers, nat soc, nat bol, and other "we hate capitalism but we hate niggers more" tendencies.


 No.1933467

>>1933444


 No.1936969

>>1936283

I bet this post is coming from a guy who doesn't even know what capitalism is and thinks it's something to do with "free trade" and "private" sectors.


 No.1937155

Is there a discord?

I need new lefty friends


 No.1937335

>>1937155

>I need new lefty friends

You don't, this isn't a parlour to make friends and have a secret meme club to fit in like /pol/, educate yourself first and then agitate others.

It may sound harsh, but even IRL Labour Party meetings are like this, I'm one of the few full time industrial workers in my group and they act surprised at me for not having the time to change my dirty work clothes for the meetings and they act all chummy with their meaningless prattling whilst I can barely get the time in to raise concerns about legislation and union politics.


 No.1939529

File: 485a91b44d4cdc1⋯.png (827.17 KB, 801x1239, 267:413, 22b9b214d8cb7082d4ee213490….png)

I need the sauce of this.


 No.1939950

>>1939529

some trotskyite fag


 No.1941910

File: f144108b37b1e4b⋯.jpg (38.21 KB, 324x500, 81:125, prop5.jpg)


 No.1948980

>>1933333

WHERE IS IT


 No.1955673

File: 463ecadbf131a7d⋯.jpg (56.77 KB, 649x489, 649:489, maximum egoism.jpg)

>>1955555

>>1955555

>>1955555

>>1955555

>>1955555

5x5

xxx

5x5


 No.1955740

I added a list of rules and cleaned up the stickies.


 No.1955761

File: f762c8f6f7a9615⋯.png (125.89 KB, 444x212, 111:53, i can respect a man like y….png)


 No.1955948

>>1955740

why did you delete the moderation feedback thread?


 No.1956246

>>1955740

I like how "not deying the problem of imperialism" is a rule, but "not denying the problem of capitalism" isn't. Really shows your priorities.


 No.1956346

>>1955948

I think it's probably better to just use this thread for feedback.

>>1956246

Imperialism is a form of capitalism. The rules for people who deny the problem of capitalism are just the rules for reactionaries posting here. The rules about imperialism are meant to deal with people who claim they are against capitalism, but don't see a problem with the most extreme and deadly form of capitalism.

Post last edited at

 No.1957848

>>1956346

So if a guy says "capitalism is good" he doesn't get banned, but if he says "imperialism is good" he gets banned? The first statement implies the second, so it doesn't make any sense.


 No.1958536

>>1957848

If someone says "I'm a fascist," that also implies they think imperialism is good. But open fascists can post here to ask questions and learn if they are on good behavior. There are separate rule sets on this board for leftists and reactionaries. Leftists have far fewer restrictions on what they can post, and the few restrictions are meant to prevent reactionary entryism (ban on Asserism, Zionism, etc). The ban on support for imperialism is just an extension of that.


 No.1969521

>>1958536

Lad, can you do me a favour and change bunkerchan.org to bunkerchan.xyz please.


 No.1969801

>>1969521

Ok. BTW, your certs are expired.


 No.1969892

>>1969801

Fixed!


 No.1970121

File: e3ee86ff4f89582⋯.jpg (68.45 KB, 699x485, 699:485, funny retardation.jpg)

how do i redtext


 No.1970201

>>1970121

read the global FAQ


 No.1970441

>>1149739

Thanks for the heads up in this text, TOC looks promising


 No.1972118


 No.1974069

I think the board would benefit from filtering "Aryan" to "Atlantean."


 No.1977739

Rather than having 2 backup imageboards have you considered having a forum instead. It would be nice to talk in a place where old quality threads can live on.


 No.1978245

I'm not a communist but I've been lurking this board for a while and feel more drawn to it. That being said, how do you guys live as communists in a capitalist society? Let's say there's a jacket in a store you want but you don't need, do you still buy the jacket or not buy it because it's just giving porky more money? Do you guys try not to interact with capitalism as much as possible by not buying things or am I overthinking it? Apologies if dumb question


 No.1978318

File: f0bfa2d229ce6ba⋯.jpg (70.61 KB, 500x500, 1:1, ethical capitalism.jpg)

>>1978245

The usual answer is that there's no ethical consumption under capitalism. Whether you need the jacket or not, it was still made by the same slave labor in Bangladesh.

>Do you guys try not to interact with capitalism as much as possible by not buying things or am I overthinking it?

Some people here will accuse you of "lifestylism" but it isn't really important one way or another. If you feel like you should cut down on consuming things you don't need, then that's fine. If you want to live your life "normally," buying and consuming as you please, there's nothing wrong with that either, from a moral standpoint, anyway. An ascetic isn't any more or less, or better or worse, a communist than a profligate.

It's good to be thinking about it and considering the ways in which your consumption impacts the world around you, but ultimately buying this or that brand or not buying this or that gadget isn't going to affect the Capitalist superstructure to any great degree. In fact, an insidious facet of Capitalist ideology is putting that moral responsibility onto you as a consumer. "This coffee is fairly sourced from poor Colombian farmers, blah blah blah," to make it seem like the onus is on you to "buy responsibly."

> Apologies if dumb question

It's a rudimentary question, but not a dumb one. If someone bites your head off for asking something, don't take it personally. Epic trollmasters blow through here frequently and sometimes ask entry-level shit like that to try and bait people into an argument. Nothing personal.


 No.1978509

File: c3e0e96234a89bd⋯.jpg (34.03 KB, 570x570, 1:1, 1496265978267.jpg)

>>1978318

Thank you for the detailed reply fam.


 No.1978677

File: 8293c3e9e7e3fd1⋯.png (261.7 KB, 350x713, 350:713, welcome to the world of ab….png)

>>1978509

No sweat.

The only thing that I might add would be that you're more likely to have luck asking where you can find the answer for something, rather than asking for an answer in itself. I don't know how seriously you take what you find here, but there are as many answers on this board as users. In that case, if you're trying to make up your mind about something whatever you ask is going to be colored by whatever ideological filter which that person happens to be high on. If they might actually know what they're talking about, then they'll have a link to the literature (just about all of it is online), or you might get some sap to save you some work as he searches in a panic for something to make it look like he isn't just full of shit. (much of laugh)

I don't know how long you've been here, so please feel free to disregard if this is all old news to you. Our unique user IDs have skyrocketed over the past couple of days though, so this is intended to maybe help some of our other newcomers as well.


 No.1978846

Test


 No.1980233

>>1466230

Wtf?


 No.1984106

File: ccbc36058679999⋯.webm (11.45 MB, 316x228, 79:57, twounderagelesbiansmaking….webm)

We're at 1695 now. That's a new record, isn't it?


 No.1985017

>>1984106

Damn you must have downloaded that back in 1999 or something.


 No.1993245

>>1958536

I don`t think you know what fascism means.


 No.1993618

>08/19/17

>19/17


 No.1996179

From the first post in the FAQ thread, see >>518058 :

>Don't:

>-attempt to cloak reactionary politics in left-wing rhetoric (Strasserism, "Nazbol" Asserism, National "Socialism," Zionism, "Die cis scum"/"Kill all white men" SJW shit)

From the thread:

>The bourgeoisie are exploiters and expropriators who can only maintain their position by the existence of their opposite: the proletariat – the working class – who produce all value in society. In this sense, they're bad. Not evil – usually – but definitely a drag and a drain on humanity. Also, you misunderstand: they don't "horde" for the sake of their ego, though some would take pleasure in it, they do it because of how capitalism functions. Capitalism's reason for being is profit-making, capital accumulation, and it facilitates this very well; not much else, though.

>The bourgeoisie exist to increase world capital by pursuing profit. So how is that questionable? For one, it's not that they can control the means of production, it's that they do so at all; in fact, the bourgeoisie control so much property that they operate an effective monopoly on the means of production. Workers' cooperatives and single owner-operator businesses aside, it's impossible for the proletariat to become both the majority class and own the majority of productive property. This is nothing less than a minority dictatorship. The bourgeoisie dictate what is produced, where, how, and for what purpose (profit); they overwhelmingly dictate government policy via lobbying, private donations, and sheer corruption; and they keep their position in society via lawful repression and ideological manipulation.


 No.1996185

>>1996179

Fuck, posted in the wrong thread. Sorry. Well anyway, it bears repeating I guess and the other thread is a troll anyway. That one: >>518058


 No.2005733

posting via tor still sucks… I tried literal 30 different combinations of end node but it was all banned by some retard who spammed smth about Marxian penis. Knowing the risk, is posting via https over Tor the best option for now?


 No.2008502

>>518058

What happens when questions are asked reguarding a "Don't" subject such as NATO's usefullness or lack there of and how big the greenhouse effect really is?.

Also, is hollocaust denying off the table too? I see no mention in the rules.

What about flat earthers?

To be clear, I do not have a opinion on NATO and climatechange deniers, holohoaxers & flattards are dumb.


 No.2011691

>>1099208

Is that Ed Milliband?


 No.2024090

why do you censor real problems


 No.2031563

Why are you not the worst people on earth?


 No.2031826

File: 7f2d218dbe1d8c9⋯.jpg (100.98 KB, 480x288, 5:3, state of emergency means p….jpg)


 No.2031942

why does /pol/ only come here to bitch and whine?


 No.2034863

>>2031942

To be fair /pol/ only goes to /pol/ to bitch and whine too.


 No.2035449

What's the black flag?


 No.2035561

bunkerchan sucks. I block cookies and the captchas are really hard to solve.


 No.2038798

File: deb0794f83d76f0⋯.png (89.98 KB, 1366x768, 683:384, Screenshot from 2017-09-01….png)

>>2035561

>I don't use it so I'm going to say it sucks and make up shit


 No.2039154

>>2038798

Space_ what happened to bunkertube?


 No.2040580

>>2039154

Server restarted it's self


 No.2040616

>>2039154

AND ITS BACK!


 No.2064663

Why do so many damn self-professed leftists proudly use proprietary software like Discord and Skype and Twitter?


 No.2066711

>>2064663

Same reason why people with brains still use Windows.


 No.2067412

>>2066711

>being this needlessly proud of having ppls personal information being sold off to telemarketers and shareholders

I'm not even asking for people to immediately evacuate all of their MS Live/Google accounts and install HaikuOS, but for acclaimed activists to be more less of hypocritical bootlickers.


 No.2068250

theres CP and a raid on bunkerchan


 No.2068894

Hey, I don't want to create a separate thread for this, but I just wanted to get the news out that I started running a /leftypol/ archive under https://sub.god.jp/lpa/, so if anyone wants to look up old posts, or redirect basic questions to threads where is was already debated in depth, feel free to do so.

It's still a bit rough around the edges, but that should improve over time + I'm going to work on a search function this week, so that old threads and files can be more easily found.

Eg. Pic related is a screenshot of >>2067433


 No.2068926

File: d13f0c5c277c023⋯.png (169.62 KB, 845x591, 845:591, Screenshot at 2017-09-11 2….png)

>>2068894

Forgot the image


 No.2069057

File: 8162f6c0bbb5e6b⋯.gif (1.38 MB, 540x304, 135:76, 1503579870010.gif)

>>2068894

Cool! Original filenames miss their extensions, though.


 No.2070617

Leftypol should have a discord server


 No.2071463

>>2070617

We have five, that's quite enough.


 No.2071466

>>2068926

Looks messy, but it's a good start.


 No.2071814

File: 9687f4ed1763212⋯.png (241.39 KB, 1048x564, 262:141, :leftypol:StrasseristPurge….png)

Just why?


 No.2071994

>>2071814

Nazi board infiltration


 No.2072439

File: 02993bbc41241a6⋯.jpg (118.54 KB, 555x777, 5:7, sakaki.jpg)

>>2071814

night of the long wives


 No.2072495

>>2071814

Because Asserists are shit you fucking moron


 No.2084773

requesting discord link


 No.2084993

>>2071466

Any tips on what's messy? Also, are you talking about the picture or the site, since the CSS was recently updated.


 No.2089758

File: 8be1aa9874f6eff⋯.jpg (24.98 KB, 500x500, 1:1, question.jpg)

>-deny the problems of climate change or imperialism

>-attempt to cloak reactionary politics in left-wing rhetoric

Why do you leftypolacks refuse to admit that you are no different from sjws/idpollers?

Also, to anybody who's not yet banned, what are some good places for a "reactionary" leftist? Preferably chans or independent forums, not a big fan of reddit.


 No.2089778

>>2089758

For someone like you I would recommend >>>/suicide/


 No.2091977

>>2089758

>reactionary

>Leftist

pick one


 No.2092603

>>2091977

That's why I put reactionary in quotes, unlike the local mods I don't think my views are actually reactionary.

But the thing is, regular /pol/ isn't particularly eager to discuss Asserism or anything having to do with socialism. Well, at least what they do is just call you a dirty commie and spam some memes in your threads, instead of using banhammer at first sight.

I guess I'll just go back then. Keep wanking over your animays, sissies.


 No.2093431

>>2092603

>I don't think my views are actually reactionary

Someone mentally damaged enough to be a asser has stupid thought? I'm astonished.


 No.2095190

test


 No.2109482

Am I still banned?

Never mind.


 No.2111854

Why is the Rojava general still uncycled? What's your reasoning BO, and please elaborate on it instead of just saying "it's imperialist" or something akin to it. Posting this in the mod thread to because I'm not sure which one it belongs to.


 No.2113559

File: 17b5e594d0e9343⋯.gif (251.13 KB, 500x343, 500:343, 1.gif)

>>2111854

>Why is the Rojava general still uncycled?

He really believed that Rojava is democratic state.


 No.2113561

File: dab10d4f1c80243⋯.jpg (236.38 KB, 633x758, 633:758, 1435948824478.jpg)

>>2113559

you don't understand fucking tankie WTF it'sNOT A STATE also democracy fuck oyu it's ANARCHY ok??

you are so dense stupid tankies ffs it's like you dont even read lol!

it's literally lend lease and german money for the bolsheviks ok!

the US army will go away when we win the war for the… for US! i mean us! for real communism!

FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U!!!


 No.2114358

>>2113561

stalin stache this is pathetic even by your standards


 No.2115665

>still no post-fascist social democracy flag

Feels bad man.


 No.2120538

>>2068894

Oh God, thank you for your initiative. But I feel I must complain about a simple fact: saving the full pics and thumbnails ought to be the main function, because all the text is already in Archive.org. Don't ask me why, but they archive almost all of 8chan several times a day, but all full pics and some thumbnails are missing.

Anyway, I said a while ago that I have some server space to spare, but I'd like to run FoolFuuka+Asagi.


 No.2124066

Added a rule I forgot to put in. Don't directly incite acts of terrorism or shit like that. Usually people just sagebomb that kind of thread, but it might as well be against the rules.

Before people freak out, all I mean is those posts where someone says shit like "hello fellow leftists, let's go to this govt. building and set it on fire!"


 No.2124135

>>2124066

Can I still advocate bombing police stations?


 No.2124214

>>2124135

You have to be vague about it.


 No.2124763

>Over 50 dead

>Over 200 injured

wewlad


 No.2124765

>>2124763

whoops wrong thread, my bad


 No.2124766

did one of the discord servers vanish or what? I don't remember leaving but I was in one that had a picture of Marx


 No.2125848

>>2124066

What about punching nazis


 No.2126127

>>2124214

So long as it's advocating for the idea and not "hey my dudes let's go blow up this LAPD station"? Alright.

though they'd definitely have earned it


 No.2127131

>>2125848

Just don't post here like "tomorrow we are all going to go to Richard Spencer's house and beat him up, throw bricks in his windows, and slash his tires. Be there."


 No.2141243

Someone can give me a quick rundown on the differences between council communism and autonomism?


 No.2162438

>>2141243

https://libcom.org/library/4-appendix-note-pannekoek-bordiga

this should be somewhat helpful, even though dauve is associated with communization and not autonomism… and i'm not sure if those are different.


 No.2167526

File: e9440e783d201aa⋯.jpg (91.22 KB, 728x1029, 104:147, smoking_girl_by_maki914.jpg)

>>2162438

>>2141243

Communization theory, autonomism, and council communism are three distinct, ultra-leftist tendencies within Libertarian Communist theory.

Council communism was a tendency within the Dutch-German left communist movement of the early 20th century. It centers around the establishment of workers councils, both as revolutionary bodies, and as post-revolutionary governing bodies. Below is a link to the most important text associated with council communism. https://www.marxists.org/archive/pannekoe/1947/workers-councils.htm

Autonomism is a late 20th century to contemporary movement which stemmed out of Italian left communism, but took on a more libertarian character as a reaction to the perceived failures of the Italian left, and is now even inclusive of anarchists. Their ideas center around the ways that individuals can wage a class struggle in their daily lives. As you can probably infer from this description, it is a bit of a clusterfuck so there is not one text I can point you to, but here is one short read to get you started.

http://www.generation-online.org/p/fp_bifo6.htm

Communization theory is a contemporary, post-autonomist, theoretical movement, the ideas of which stem from insurrectionist anarcho-communism, but are also influenced by various other ultra-leftist tendencies, including Italian left communism. Here is a good introductory text on Communization Theory. You should read the bread book as well if you haven't already, as I believe this is where the concept originates. https://libcom.org/files/Dauv%C3%A9%20with%20Martin%20-%20Eclipse%20and%20Re-emergence.pdf


 No.2167780

Can we get a flag for social liberals? And yes i know they arnt socialist


 No.2167961

>>2167780

use social democrat or democrap flag, tard


 No.2180770

Is it offensive to abuse antifa on this board?


 No.2183324

I've seen some people on 4chan comment about how the banning of Asserism here turned them off /leftypol/

I think we are losing a lot of potential lefty /pol/tards because of this


 No.2183871

File: 55fd8fee127938d⋯.jpg (70.52 KB, 383x530, 383:530, absolut kudarodka.jpg)

>>2183324

Good. Fuck them to death.


 No.2186961

>>2183324

Its nice that they are looking for alternatives but the assrides were getting annoying spamming up here. Maybe they should make their own board here.


 No.2188967

Where the fuck are the flags? I need my leftcom flag in order to feel validated and secure in my armchair, you shits.

>>2180770

No, half of us hate Antifa, myself included. They're just a bunch of fucking collaborationists.

>>2183324

Who. Cares. If Nazis want to come here, they can come here fully dressed and prepare for an ass-raping.


 No.2189766

>>2188967

>Where the fuck are the flags?

why aren't you asking co

>leftcom

oh nevermind


 No.2192271

Testing

Niggers


 No.2195827


 No.2200631

>>2195827

Some site features are back, testing word filters:

DSA

Niggers


 No.2200878

>>2200631

was niggers ever filtered?


 No.2201259

File: 043863c4faaac18⋯.png (91.99 KB, 253x147, 253:147, mm great grandfather.png)


 No.2204942

Testing


 No.2210237

File: c26e392d240b09c⋯.jpg (66.54 KB, 720x687, 240:229, questioning_slut.jpg)

>attempt to cloak reactionary politics in left-wing rhetoric (Strasserism, "Nazbol" Strasserism, National "Socialism," Zionism, "Die cis scum"/"Kill all white men" SJW shit)

Why combining leftist economic thought and rightist social thought is bannable on /leftypol/?


 No.2210258

>>2210237

it's unscientific


 No.2210265

>>2210258

define "unscientific"


 No.2210268

>>2210265

it's utopian


 No.2210280

>>2210268

And 9000 flavors of leftism like communalism or all the anarcho-things isnt?


 No.2210292

>>2210280

some position are, but they kept here because of memes. That is why you should look into immortal science of marxism-leninism. Read "wage labour and capital" by Marx, it's only 30 pages long essay

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/Marx_Wage_Labour_and_Capital.pdf


 No.2210301

>>2210292

I read it but

>That is why you should look into immortal science

>"Science from the 19th century"

>Theory doesnt evolve and adapts

>Only Marx (PBUH) was right, straying even an inch from his theory is a treason


 No.2210314

>>2210301

>>"Science from the 19th century"

what is wrong with that? Do you think that scientists appeared around the times new iPhone was made?

>>Theory doesnt evolve and adapts

I'm not saying that.

>>Only Marx (PBUH) was right, straying even an inch from his theory is a treason

I'm not saying that, but it's generally good approach. USSR went to shit when they decided that Marx was outdated.


 No.2210345

>>2210314

>what is wrong with that?

The fact that given the material conditions at that time and state of knowledge it can be outdated or plain wrong


 No.2212465

>>2210345

And? It's not like that's changed.


 No.2213186

Congrats Xir you made a raid tool


 No.2222008

test


 No.2227965

File: 5cafbdd4973479a⋯.jpg (1.8 MB, 1555x2048, 1555:2048, 5cafbdd4973479ab5822dfbadd….jpg)

>>2120538

Say, I just remembered, didn't the 8chan official archive back in 2014 run on FoolFuuka+Asagi?


 No.2229588

File: 435a91ae5acf002⋯.png (334.67 KB, 600x332, 150:83, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2227965

I just finished watching that show, it was verly gud.


 No.2234998

How do I get a flag by my name? I know, I know newfag question but would appreciate an answer


 No.2235297

>>2234998

Press post option and limits and then choose the flag of your liking like I will now as per demonstration use the lenin hat flag


 No.2251330

For you it seems to be compulsatory.


 No.2255604

where is it

>>2255555


 No.2255846

>>1583520

>Endchan

>No cp

Get real faggot


 No.2260413

Why was this thread bumplocked?

https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/2259796.html


 No.2263074

>>2260413

why shouldn't it have been


 No.2263196

>>2263167

No it is not. Go back to your board and stay there splitter instead of shitposting. >:P


 No.2263204

>>2263074

Why should it?


 No.2264468

When I make threads it sometimes says I have to have 200 characters to be able to post it. Is it a bug or am I just retarded?


 No.2264651

>>1980233

Wait wait wait is this me?


 No.2285285

>>1972118

why sage a sticky tread?


 No.2291316

where did nazbol go?


 No.2291760

>>2291316

>Implying there are any unironic NazBols


 No.2295509

>>2291760

there is


 No.2297898

File: dadfc8974b6e7ad⋯.jpg (10.05 KB, 300x168, 25:14, hue.jpg)


 No.2298021

>>518058

Am I still banned?

(Now you are)

 No.2298360

>>2298021

why is he not banned?


 No.2299361

>>2298360

Please go kys. I just wanted a disussion.


 No.2299538


 No.2300791

>>518058

Testing


 No.2300967

>>518058

Am I banned again?


 No.2301401

Test


 No.2308303

>Don't:

>-Do not misgender the Board Owner she/her pronouns preferred

<Double negative

That means I can call the BO anything. :^)

But really. Why is this even a rule? Most users just call board owners BO anyway.


 No.2308345

File: 55ec88f8d714e39⋯.jpg (123.27 KB, 652x869, 652:869, tmp_13091-e0d84e6f39e15aab….jpg)

>>2308303

>think it's a joke

>check

>it isn't


 No.2308583

>>2308303

>>2308345

It's a ruse by BO, he isn't actually a tranny


 No.2309370

File: d5062fb5435f3aa⋯.jpg (45.53 KB, 477x313, 477:313, barf.jpg)

>>2308583

fUCk up nerd


 No.2309828

>>2291760

There have been plenty of what you could call nazbol or Asserist movements and governments over the years, they just rarely call themselves that simply because those terms are associated with Russia and Germany respectively. Nationalists will mostly either use widely accepted terms or terms specificially associated with their own nation.


 No.2313809

test


 No.2336255

>>2068894

I took it down. Not enough traffic, not worth it.

>>2120538

Sadly, I don't have the storage capacities for that. 4GB a month is not that sustainable, at least not for me. The cloner I wrote (http://sub.god.jp/~xat/kagami/) has the capacity to clone images and thumbnails, but I had to add an option to deactivate it. I will still be maintaining the software though, in case anyone wants to go on hosting a mirror.

Contact me if anyone feels like they could.

>>2227965

Asagi only supports 4chan, afaik: https://eksopl.github.io/asagi/.


 No.2348747

File: 8518e606db4eb55⋯.jpg (26.33 KB, 333x370, 9:10, DEWnv9oV0AAu-rz.jpg orig.jpg)

>>2336255

1/2

>>2336255

Well this is a reply I wasn't expecting.

About the storage capacity, I confess I have no idea how much would be required. I planned on archiving /leftypol/ only out of my own pocket. My humble plan of 10 Trumps a year has a limit of 20GB space but unlimited bandwidth, and I figure a medium-ish board like this could live on 20GB for a while, especially since the archivers nowadays don't store multiple copies of the same file. Should the need arise, for an extra 20 Trumps a year I could have unlimited disk space. Yeah, I know, some companies dick you over if you get too serious with the "unlimited" thing, but Namecheap has been the most recommended non-specialized host I have ever seen, so I think they would stick to their word.

You mean 4GB worth of files to archive a month, and not bandwidth, right? Yeah that's more than I expected. By cloning, you mean the thing about keeping only one copy of an image that shows up multiple times like I said above, I assume? Is the 4GB of disk space with that feature turned on or off?

Anyway, I've looking around since I last posted, and found several interesting things.

First, the last archived version of the working 8archive.moe site: http://web.archive.org/web/20150829020529/https://8archive.moe/

It used the standard FoolFuuka, but had a modified Asagi for 8chan. I checked around and it turns out there's actually 2 Asagi forks aimed at 8chan support, 3 if you count a branch that wasn't merged back. See the hatstand0 timeline (it's the one used by 8archive.moe) as well as the short yellow timeline in oohnoitz above it (which I think was never used). Altho none of them has been updated in a couple of years, and that's not even accounting for OpenIB's addition to 8chan: https://github.com/eksopl/asagi/network

In that archived 8archive.moe, in the About page, however, it points to a different repository for the modified Asagi on the now-abandoned domain Gitgud.net. There was very little of this repository archived (it boils down to this: http://web.archive.org/web/*/https://gitgud.net/8archive/*), and in the present Gitgud.io domain (https://gitgud.io/8archive), it seems to be completely empty. You can download the Gitgud.net repository in compressed files, but it seems to be the same as the fourth-to-last commit of hatstand0's master timeline (https://github.com/hatstand0/asagi/commit/41d7065f553085bdf5cf09a5b2f7ce9a79498c1e).

Furthermore, I found a Python implementation of Asagi, Pysagi, which apparently was also made with 8chan in mind. But like the Asagi forks above, it's outdated by a couple of years, meaning there's no accounting for OpenIB too: https://github.com/woodenphone/Pysagi


 No.2348748

File: 3c0e6046ec65e25⋯.jpg (47.59 KB, 613x685, 613:685, DEWnv9kUIAAA9sq.jpg orig.jpg)

>>2336255

>>2348747

2/2

There's also a board software made by Sapphire called FutaBilly. Curiously, it doesn't use databases, which apparently makes it far faster than any other imageboard, and it can be used as both a regular imageboard or as an archiver-cum-fetcher, and it's able to archive our precious multiple files per post. It's less outdated than the others, but it still was last updated before OpenIB was deployed, and the inclusion of 8chan support was sort of unplanned (http://web.archive.org/web/20170627162106/http://archive.8ch.net:80/static/comeback.html and http://web.archive.org/web/20170207200209/https://archive.8ch.net/static/faq.html). It was the software used in the ill-fated archive.8ch.net, which if I remember correctly, wasn't working with the quality that cuckchan archives do, and had a rather unpleasant UI compared to FoolFuuka's Futaba-like style. I also recall that /leftypol/, among others, wasn't being archived. The only other board that used FutaBilly that I found,5chan.moe, is now also dead (https://5chan.moe/threads.html#!g), which isn't a good omen, and I couldn't even find any properly archived pages, which I'm guessing is the fault of FutaBilly's unusual design (http://web.archive.org/web/*/https://5chan.moe/*), seeing as archive.8ch.net also wasn't properly captured by Archive.org (http://web.archive.org/web/20170625163429/https://archive.8ch.net). As for FutaBilly itself: https://gitgud.io/Sapphire/FutaBilly

Speaking of archive.8chan.net, I had a hunch that maybe it was abandoned because OpenIB was deployed. I wanted to compare the dates between OpenIB's deployment and archive.8ch.net's disappearance. The former happened between 22 and 24 June 2017 (http://web.archive.org/web/20170622223446/https://8ch.net/index.html and http://web.archive.org/web/20170624040040/https://8ch.net/index.html), while the very last capture of the latter is from 17 July 2017 (http://archive.is/https://archive.8ch.net/*). However, I found out that the OpenIB credit was merely added to the footer on 23 June 2017 (https://github.com/OpenIB/OpenIB/commit/3427dbce23114091f49efc8d0e127fe0230c1705), but had been deployed earlier, God knows when. Furthermore, it turns out they pulled the plug on archive.8ch.net because there was no one pruning the occasional troll-posted CP (>>>/sudo/66562/), which is a problem I confess had never crossed my mind when thinking of hosting an archive… Well at least I found out that FutaBilly seems to play nice with OpenIB, as OpenIB was just the formal forking of the modifications Codemonkey & co. had been doing on Infinity anyway, so chances are all the software mentioned should work with current 8chan, at least with a relatively little work.

And then, of course, there's your Kagami, which is the only one guaranteed to work with OpenIB without a hitch (I'll just paste the URL here for posterity: http://sub.god.jp/~xat/kagami/)

Sadly, I wasn't able to find any live site using FutaBilly, Pysagi nor the 3 modified Asagis, so we can't give them a whirl. Ditto for Kagami, but you obviously know that.

Phew, that's it for now. I'm a complete amateur, so I have to ask a few questions. First, what's the viability of off-loading the image hosting somewhere else? Second, would if be possible to make the fetcher check 8chan's logs for CP deletion and then delete the corresponding archived post? Third, do you think any of the older projects above is worth the time to maybe make it up to date? Namely, Pysagi and FutaBilly seem interesting to my layman's mind. Fourth, which frontend was your archive using? If this gets off the ground, I'd really rather use FoolFuuka, because it's head and shoulders the best front-end that I know of, especially with that great search engine.


 No.2351460

>>2348748

I've seen archives host their files on imgur.

I have no idea what to do with CP, though. Maybe you could have the images in a staging area and only send them off after they have been reviewed.


 No.2363776

gommunism :DdDD


 No.2369737

File: 9090513e5df73fc⋯.jpg (46.31 KB, 550x585, 110:117, dma-130.jpg)

>>2351460

Sorry for the late reply but, if you're the guy I replied to, could you, um, answer the other questions I made at the end? Not to sound rude or anything, I'm just plain inexperienced with webdev.

Anyway, I searched around for archives that offloaded its pics to Imgur or any free host but couldn't find any. Could you point to any, please? I'd like to see it in action and hopefully learn a thing or two.

As I googled around, I stumbled upon a concern of offloading: the host's policy on copyright, which imageboards obviously violate constantly. I guess I'll have to read the fine print on the free image hosts' ToS, but odds are that at least a few free hosts will have no issue with it.

Lastly, about the CP problem. Your staging area idea seems viable, but one of my goals is always to automatize things as much as possible. So I figured, 8chan admins, BOs and jannies already do the hard work of deleting CP and other illegal shit as part of their tasks, so maybe I could piggyback on that, and that's where I got my idea for a log of CP (and other illegal material) deletions. It seems like an elegant solution, if I may say so myself, but unfortunately, I see potential for abuse. It would provide certain individuals with information as to which files were CP, so they could just archive mountains of 8chan images then filter the cheese pizza from them. And of course, I'd have to get Sourcelemur to actually add this new log. Should I contact him about this?


 No.2375451

>>2374603

That's really cool. What DE or program are you using to make your GUI look like Windows 95?


 No.2399539

>>2375451

It says Openbox in the screenshot…

>>2351460

This sounds interesting. And if it isn't imgur, it could be any other pomf service too, asuming they wouldn't have too much of a problem with that. Or even better, kagami could be extended to evenly upload different images to different servers. This should be especially easy if they implement the Pomf standard.

>>2369737

>I stumbled upon a concern of offloading: the host's policy on copyright, which imageboards obviously violate constantly

It's irrelevant who were to host it, if copyright laws are broken, porkies will make sure it's gone eventually. Imageboards can do it because their content decays automatically, but an archive should have to keep it around for a while. So I guess that's an unavoidable problem.

>>2348747

>>2348748

> My humble plan of 10 Trumps a year has a limit of 20GB space but unlimited bandwidth, and I figure a medium-ish board like this could live on 20GB for a while, especially since the archivers nowadays don't store multiple copies of the same file. Should the need arise, for an extra 20 Trumps a year I could have unlimited disk space.

The first time you mirror a "medium-sized" board you get about 4-6GB of on-optimized and often duplicate files, even though they might have the same factual content, because someone compressed them here, or took a screenshot of them there. But images aren't even the real problem, videos are. They take up a disproportional amount of space, and especially here on 8ch they are used a lot.

>You mean 4GB worth of files to archive a month, and not bandwidth, right?

Yes.

>By cloning, you mean the thing about keeping only one copy of an image that shows up multiple times like I said above, I assume?

Yes

>Is the 4GB of disk space with that feature turned on or off?

With. And again, 4GB is just an estimate. When a board is more active, it might be more, otherwise it might be less.

>First, what's the viability of off-loading the image hosting somewhere else?

I've already mention this is a comment above, but youst to say it again, it's absolutely viable, and it woldn't even be too difficult to implement, if one would know what site to use.

>Second, would if be possible to make the fetcher check 8chan's logs for CP deletion and then delete the corresponding archived post?

Since Kagami can use per-site engines (for example: https://github.com/xatasan/Kagami/blob/master/8chan.go) it would be doable. One would just have to have an effective way to parse the logs.

>Third, do you think any of the older projects above is worth the time to maybe make it up to date?

I can't really say much about it. I personally would rather like to work on Kagami, and maybe update and improve it based on the shortcomings of previous mirror tools.

>Fourth, which frontend was your archive using? If this gets off the ground, I'd really rather use FoolFuuka, because it's head and shoulders the best front-end that I know of, especially with that great search engine.

I wrote my own "ad-hoc" front-end, but I guess it would be possible to plug in another one. Again, I'd rather want to learn from those, so to keep the code clean, fast and maintainable. Kagami actually has an optional search feature, that requires a server running somewhere with access to a database, but otherwise all the threads and catalogs are statically generated. And again, they're currently not so pretty, so there's room for improvment.

Generally, I wanted to rewrite the internal structure of Kagami, to make thread generating more efficient, so when I do get around to that, I might also take a look at what these other projects do.


 No.2402320

>>2374603

Are you the guy with the ThinkPad and tail buttplug or does your de setup just look similar?


 No.2416847

what is gentrification and why is it bad


 No.2418487

>>2416847

Gentrification is the process of causing a poor or working class neighborhood to become too expensive for the current "undesirable" residents to live in, forcing them out of the neighborhood so they can be replaced with more "desirable" (read:wealthy) residents

It's bad because it's essentially (burger definition) class based forced relocation


 No.2420041

What is the leftist point of view on trade tariffs? I assume you view them favourably? I do for sure, I don't like globalization and things such as NAFTA. Is globalization a socdem policy?


 No.2420519

>>2420041

Globalism is a neoliberal policy

Internationalism (unfortunately sounds almost identical) is the socialism stance

Essentially we stand for united proletarian world


 No.2432045

>>2420519

>implying all globbies aren't stealth gradualists

nice try kike


 No.2432355

>>2432045

Ferdinand lassalle, is that you?


 No.2432373

>>2432355

They just realized it's easier to convince nations to sign away their sovereignty by words over guns.


 No.2451379


 No.2488045

Who or what is "Anal Waters"?


 No.2488866

>>2488045

A.W., Antonio Wolf, colloquially known on leftypol as anal water


 No.2491335

>>2491306

no u


 No.2519797

is bunkerchan kill


 No.2520753

whats the discord


 No.2521036

>>2520753

there's no /leftypol/ discord.


 No.2525100

>>2525010

Fuck off


 No.2525403

>>2525284

why u do dis


 No.2537050

Am I still banned?


 No.2538579

What happened to Subcomandante Marcos?


 No.2543491

ww


 No.2544606

>>518058

>>Are you liberals? Are you SJWs? Do you like Clinton? Are you all Zionists???

>No liberals here. We hate the Democrat party.

You guys say you're not liberals yet you still support feminism and homosexuality, and such? You might not be by name but you're still a supporter.


 No.2544662

File: 4657535d8b50038⋯.png (249.25 KB, 1200x1860, 20:31, serveimage.png)

Why do you guys have to call them "porky"? It sounds childish to me, globalist or global capitalist or just elite capitalists sounds better. It's way too adorable of an insult.


 No.2544805

File: e15b46202826863⋯.png (356.55 KB, 611x556, 611:556, alarmed porky.png)

>>2544662

lurk more


 No.2544808

>>2544606

We just aren't threatened by women or gays because we've abandoned your idiotic identity politics.

Go back to tumblr you dumb faggot.


 No.2544838

>>2544808

>We just aren't threatened by women or gays because we've abandoned your idiotic identity politics.

Your movement is still based on the interests and perspectives of social groups with which people identify, like class, sexual orientation and gender. How can your movement be against identity politics, yet you still support feminism and homosexuality?


 No.2544950

Why are infographs bad?


 No.2545315

File: e80cd80c9f57c9a⋯.webm (7.98 MB, 480x360, 4:3, communist auto worker exp….webm)

>>2544950

They aren't necessarily. /pol/ "redpills" are brainlet fodder most of the time, but a good infograph can be useful.

>>2544838

First, "class" isn't an identity. It describes a material relation of the individual to the means of production.

Second, the rest of your comment is nonsensical. "Your movement?" Whose movement? Anarchists? Leninists? Maoists? Social democrats? Do you have any idea what you're fucking talking about? How does one "support" "feminism?" Or "homosexuality?" What the fuck are you even talking about?


 No.2545568

>>2545315

>"class" isn't an identity. It describes a material relation of the individual to the means of production.

Being poor or rich isn't an identity?

>"Your movement?" Whose movement?

Aren't you guys communist?

>Do you have any idea what you're fucking talking about?

If i did, i wouldn't be asking questions.

>How does one "support" "feminism?" Or "homosexuality?"

If this board is any indication, it's clear that you're not against feminism or homosexuality. especially with quotes like

>We just aren't threatened by women or gays


 No.2545616

>>2545568

"Rich" and "poor" are not classes. Class is not an identity. You either own the means of production, making you bourgeois class, or you sell your labor power, making you proletarian class. (This is a very simplistic explanation regarding class, there's a lot more nuance necessary to fully comprehend class, such as owner-employee standing as opposed to absentee-ownership)


 No.2545618

File: c949361d2ae646c⋯.jpg (107.11 KB, 500x500, 1:1, cap porky.jpg)

>>2545568

>being threatened by women and gays


 No.2545634

>>2545616

>Class is not an identity.

The reason i said that is because in the definition of identity politics it lists class as an identity.

>Identity politics refers to political positions based on the interests and perspectives of social groups with which people identify. Identity politics includes the ways in which people's politics are shaped by aspects of their identity through loosely correlated social organizations. Examples include social organizations based on age, religion, social class or caste, culture, dialect, disability, education, ethnicity, language, nationality, sex, gender identity, generation, occupation, profession, race, political party affiliation, sexual orientation, settlement, urban and rural habitation, and veteran status. Not all members of any given group are involved in identity politics.

And the definition for classes it lists rich, middle and poor as classes, at least in America/Europe.

>Many Americans believe in a simple three-class model that includes the "rich", the "middle class", and the "poor". More complex models that have been proposed describe as many as a dozen class levels; while still others deny the very existence, in the European sense, of "social class" in American society. Most definitions of class structure group people according to wealth, income, education, type of occupation, and membership in a specific subculture or social network. Most of the social classes entirely ignore the existence of parallel Black, Hispanic and minorities societies.

Now i'm not saying you're wrong, or anything because your have a different definition than the accepted one, but my next question would why is your definition of class different?

>>2545618

>>being threatened by women and gays

Why aren't you guys threatened by feminism and homosexuality? What kind of a family structure/institution does communism look to create?


 No.2545846

>>2545634

I consider my definition to be correct because it has definable parameters. Who determines who is "rich", "poor", and "middle class"? They're arbitrary and because they're up for subjective defining, you absolutely CAN use any of these three pseudo-classes as an identifier. However, as a Marxist, I prefer a more scientific approach, with terminology with clearly defined meanings and parameters. A bourgeois class individual is bourgeois because of his relationship to the means of production. He may make 100k per year or 100m per year, and in american classes, his class would be determined arbitrarily by whoever you ask. But in Marxist terms, he would be indisputably bourgeois.

I'm also not the other guy you responded to, but communism seeks to replace the nuclear family with a traditional approach to familial structure involving multiple generations of a family within the same household. It provides a more complete sense of family and togetherness because instead of only yourself, spouse and children, or only yourself, your parents and your siblings, you have grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. living as one family unit. Not necessarily in a single house unit (unless it's particularly large of course) but rather within close confines within their particular community.


 No.2545892

File: 4e65f8848d89043⋯.jpg (272.67 KB, 2560x998, 1280:499, bullshit privilege and act….jpg)

>>2545634

>What kind of a family structure/institution does communism look to create?

Generally speaking it isn't concerned with "creating" any such thing. Such a relationship would arise organically from the material circumstances relevant at the time. You know, just like every other time in history.

>The reason i said that is because in the definition of identity politics it lists class as an identity.

Liberalism has bastardized all sorts of Marxist/Communist terms and methodology. "Class" has to be an identity to liberals because of the necessity to identify, categorize, and subsequently commodify all manner of human expression. To say that class is an identity would be tantamount to saying that wearing reeboks or nike are an identity, or your relative distance to the sun, or being right handed or left handed. It's absurd. In Marxist terms, your class is a material fact. You either control the means of production and its access, or you don't.

And all that is aside from "identity" being a subjective, personal delusion as inconsequential as one's favorite color or flavor of ice cream.

>why is your definition of class different?

In the American schema, your "class" is determined by your relative income. If you can "afford" a car, a house, 2.5 children, etc, you're "middle class." This ignores the fundamental fact that the vast majority of the supposed "middle class" can't afford these things. They rely on a system of credit to supplement their income, and there are other mechanisms too which facilitate spending and bring the "affordability" of things that people can't buy through purchasing power alone. The American "class system" is based entirely on perception and arbitrary definitions of "class."

The Marxist basis for class is based on the individual's personal relationship with the material means of survival. In Feudalism, the aristocracy owns the land, and the peasants do not. They can't farm the land without leave provided by the aristocracy. That's the essential quality of aristocracy: ownership and monopoly control of the land and the resources in it which people need to live. Feudalism can't function without the dynamic which arises from this material relationship.

The transition to Capitalism introduces a new material relation superficially similar to feudalism but fundamentally different. The land is no longer something to which a person or family is entitled, but simply another commodity. It can be bought or sold or traded, regardless of the wishes of the feudal hierarchy. Under feudalism, the peasants at least had certain rights and privileges in regards to the land and its use. Under capitalism, the "owner" of the land (or whatever item, product, or commodity) has exclusive and sole right to its use. They can extend or deny access to it on a whim, regardless of the material necessity it plays in the survival of everyone else, which is ultimately enforced by the threat of state violence.

As these ideas of property, its use, and the fundamental nature of how access to it should be controlled evolve, the previous classes that arose from those material relations also shift and change. Capitalism has (ostensibly) done away with peasants, serfs, and slaves, and in its place has arisen the proletariat. Similarly, the aristocracy of medieval European feudalism has also more or less withered away, supplanted instead by the ascendant bourgeoisie, as you can see in the American revolutionary war, for example.


 No.2546237

File: 8bd7ebcf0393249⋯.png (481.23 KB, 500x594, 250:297, 945436_715196391842110_394….png)

>>2545892

>>2544838

>Your movement is still based on the interests and perspectives of social groups with which people identify

Google Marx's critique of idealism.

The base or infrastructure of society is the determinant level in an orthodox Marxist analysis. (In neo-Marxism, the two constitute each other in dialectical exchanges).

Culture and identity are effects ("superstructures") which stem from the base ("the ruling ideas are the ideas of the ruling class").

The material structure of society is the structure of the things people *do* in order to survive, reproduce, flourish, meet needs and wants, etc. Especially how we get things like food, shelter, clothes, childcare. Different *modes of production* provide these things in different ways. Different *classes* have different positions in their production and consumption inside a given mode of production. (Marxists disagree on where service industries and consumerism fit in - whether they're base or superstructure, and whether they've changed the structure of capitalism at all).

Capitalism is a mode of production. In capitalism, capital owns the means of production which produce things we need to live. Most people are forced to work for a wage (or produce commodities for trade, or claim benefits…) to get food, housing etc. Socialism is a *different* mode of production where people get what the need/want by working in common based on their own desires. Feudalism, the ancient world, and hunter-gatherers ("primitive communism") are also *other* modes of production.

Broadly speaking, class in the Marxist sense is an aspect of the mode of production. Identity - including class identity - is a secondary part of the superstructure. However, aspects of gender, sexuality, "race", imperialism, disability, etc can also be part of the base. For example, the fact that some people are assigned to secondary labour markets with lower wages is part of the base. The exploitation of the global "periphery" or "Third World" for primary resources at low prices is part of the base. So is unremunerated domestic labour (i.e. the fact that women are/were expected to do unpaid housework and childcare for free) and the (former) exclusion of people with disabilities from the workplace. Note that none of these are *identity* issues as such.


 No.2546238

File: 30edcbc6b168af9⋯.png (5.65 KB, 120x150, 4:5, 7383970299c2f.png)

>>2546237 continued

The mode of production is objective and position within it is also objective. Someone can be described based on their class or other position within the mode of production without reference to their subjective identity. A lot of working-class people wrongly believe they are middle-class or class doesn't matter (an example of false consciousness). Marxism is based on correctly identifying with objective class positions. How someone in fact identifies is irrelevant. Experience is not relevant. "OMG I felt oppressed by this" is not relevant. Of course discrimination against people based on their class identity or their accent or postcode etc is a bad thing, but it's part of the superstructure, it's not definitive of class.

Communist revolution *abolishes* class because socialist society produces things people need and want without a class division.

Marxists support gay rights and women's equality (not inverted hierarchies or privilege checking) for three reasons. Firstly, divisions caused by these issues weaken the working class and are part of bourgeois divide-and-rule. Secondly, to the extent that some groups are acually forced into subordinate positions (e.g. unremunerated domestic labour), this is a variant of class exploitation which we oppose. Thirdly, the ultimate aim of Marxism is the liberation of human potentiality from its social constraints - and hence, from requirements such as gender role conformity and compulsory heterosexuality.

>Being poor or rich isn't an identity?

If I only have $3 in my bank account then I only have $3 in my bank account whether I believe I'm a millionaire or not. Ultimately the value of $3 is a social construct (see: commodity fetishism) but it's constructed at the level of the entire system, not at the level of individual identity.

>in the definition of identity politics it lists class as an identity

When idpols say "class" they're meaning things like being discriminated against because of your accent or you get called a chav and looked down on. Also, idpols are primarily interested in the class division between so-called middle-class and working-class, i.e. better- and worse-off workers. Guilt-tripping the better-off workers to check their privilege and accept the deterioration of their own life-conditions because others are worse-off. So it's the same displacement and distraction from class as the rest of idpol.

Idpol has no horizon for the abolition of capitalism because it sees everything in terms of identities, cultures, signifiers, and patterns of belief and behaviour. It largely accepts capitalism in practice if not in theory. Its psychology and social ontology are bourgeois.

>What kind of a family structure/institution does communism look to create?

There's some disagreement within Marxism, but generally, an egalitarian one. Some writers (e.g. Engels, Fromm) want a democratised version of more-or-less monogamous relationships. Others (e.g. Kollontai, Reich) expect there will be free love and collective childcare. Some of the hippy communes were built on Marxist models of the family. Neither gender equality nor same-sex relationships (nor for that matter genderqueering) pose any threat to either of these family systems.


 No.2546382

>>2545846

>I'm also not the other guy you responded to, but communism seeks to replace the nuclear family with a traditional approach to familial structure involving multiple generations of a family within the same household. It provides a more complete sense of family and togetherness because instead of only yourself, spouse and children, or only yourself, your parents and your siblings, you have grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. living as one family unit. Not necessarily in a single house unit (unless it's particularly large of course) but rather within close confines within their particular community.

Yes, like the conscious family, but you can't properly allow a family institution and feminism and homosexuality, i don't see how communism can seek both to happen.

>>2546238

>free love

>more-or-less monogamous relationships

>Neither gender equality nor same-sex relationships (nor for that matter genderqueering) pose any threat to either of these family systems.

Why do you believe that gender 'equality' and same sex relationships don't pose a threat to regular family systems? If what you say is true then how and why is communism so open to those two movements? Isn't allowing those two movements also allowing identity politics?

>>2545892

>>2546237

These are through answer thank everyone for answering those questions.


 No.2546387

File: acf4737b8ca3c1d⋯.jpg (18.37 KB, 560x172, 140:43, LTDUYWH.jpg)

File: 92324e074a8a514⋯.png (939.59 KB, 1199x636, 1199:636, women as instrument of pro….png)

File: 924bcf4f31f1159⋯.jpg (340.36 KB, 1487x553, 1487:553, feminism idpol.jpg)

File: bef11abeaa4b2ee⋯.png (1.13 MB, 1024x1499, 1024:1499, idpol dead end.png)

File: 9b9801dd152250a⋯.png (147.51 KB, 1361x957, 1361:957, anon on idpol.png)

>>2546382

> you can't properly allow a family institution and feminism and homosexuality

History is replete with examples of unorthodox familial institutions and customs, all of which somehow managed to endure despite the relative presence of institutionalized female empowerment and homosexuality.

>Why do you believe that gender 'equality' and same sex relationships don't pose a threat to regular family systems?

There isn't any such thing as a "regular family system."

>If what you say is true then how and why is communism so open to those two movements?

In part because the social persecution of homosexuality is a result of hypocritical bourgeois moralism. People shouldn't be harassed or outright murdered by state goons because of the lover they choose and what they do in private. Homosexual relationships had a presence in every major culture that I can think of, but "homosexuality" didn't exist until the advent of capitalism, when one's identity became a matter of consumption and activity rather than the quality of one's character. For most of history and with some exceptions, marriage and procreation were a duty, rather than a pastime or means of "self fulfillment." For the most part, as long as one did one's duty publicly, no one cared what you did privately.

Personally I reject the bourgeois condemnation of homosexuality, because you can see the sort of painful, alienating effect it has on males, whether homo or heterosexual, in the United States. The male form is vilified, relationships between males are stymied because of the fear of looking "gay," and it serves only to separate men from developing a sense of fraternity. It flies in the face of more than two thousand years of Western values which exalted the beauty that the male form can have, and the unique relationships that can develop between men, both erotic and platonic.

>Isn't allowing those two movements also allowing identity politics?

It depends in part of what you're talking about by "those movements."

But just like how class describes a material relationship, gender and orientation can as well. The problem comes with the capitalist tendency to commodify everything. Generally speaking, "homosexuals" didn't exist in the ancient world. Homosexual relationships were recognized as something one did, not as something that one is. You can look for example to the Abrahamic religions and their proscription against those that "lie with a man as they would a woman." The ban isn't against people, but behavior (which in part was motivated by reaction against European paganism at the time).

If you want to go way back, the Epic of Gilgamesh is a bromance. Enkidu is created specifically to be Gilgamesh's partner, and it's explicitly said that Gilgamesh was to "love him like a woman." The exact nature of their relationship isn't really commented upon, it might not be homosexual per se, in fact the only sex that does go on is between Enkidu and a temple prostitute (which goes on for a solid week), and when Enkidu dies, Gilgamesh goes mad with grief, to the point that he isn't willing to part with his friend's body until it's bloated and worm infested.

So the problem isn't homosexuality in itself, but rather "homosexuals," so to speak, the sort of people that make their behavior their identity, and either consciously or unconsciously conform to the idea of "gayness" established by bourgeois society.


 No.2546388

>>2546382

>These are through answer thank everyone for answering those questions.

Thank you for not mindlessly shitposting and engaging in good faith. Most of our visitors, especially those from /pol/, don't.


 No.2546725

>>2546382

homosexuality is a moot point to argue about. The bourgeois notion of "raising your own children/family" will be abolished because child rearing will (as it should) take the effort of the ENTIRE family unit. If there's a gay uncle or lesbian cousin thrown in there, so be it. It's not really a big deal. As for feminism,it's only relevant insofar as basic rights are concerned. We, as Marxists, do not and should not seek to abolish the present state of things to implement "Pink Capitalism" - that is to say, capitalism as we know it except women are generally in positions of power as opposed to men. The exploitation would still exist and out goal as communists is to eliminate exploitation.


 No.2551590

File: 1541a5fe8fbfa7b⋯.jpg (298.74 KB, 2048x1365, 2048:1365, DfdHouNWsAEp144.jpg)


 No.2554414

I'm new to 8chan.

I just got banned on /leftpol/ for 24 hours because I spaced some of my lines too much—though such prohibition wasn't in the sticky—at least not in the first post.

In my first post, I insulted no one; nor did I insult much in my other posts—mostly trying to explain myself.

I was far worse on /pol/—calling them Nazi garbage and posting soft core porn—and they only banned me for 6 hours.

I don't think I'm right for this forum either; but then again, I'm tired right now. I should rest.


 No.2554871

Where can i find an archive your cute cat mascot?


 No.2555375

>>2554871

Leftybooru


 No.2555880

>>2555375

gimme a break.


 No.2567097

File: c803939c35446d8⋯.jpg (159.93 KB, 1191x1194, 397:398, bcb78df0e140bac58a8dd2548c….jpg)

File: 3e83498fd552287⋯.png (571.31 KB, 1732x1324, 433:331, leftpol The family is not ….png)

File: a4a0188f027c5d9⋯.png (101.53 KB, 1264x827, 1264:827, Wrong.png)

File: 4af7b677a8c8597⋯.jpg (323.93 KB, 1917x1077, 639:359, leftist punks.jpg)

Would you guys agree that all the enemies of the Jews, corporations, the rich and the Government are all the same people?

>>2546387

>those pics

Just in case it's not clear, i'm not in favor of beating your wife.

>History is replete with examples of unorthodox familial institutions and customs, all of which somehow managed to endure despite the relative presence of institutionalized female empowerment and homosexuality.

It would really depend on what society you're talking about, but of course unorthodox families will work once feminism has bulldozed natural families.

>There isn't any such thing as a "regular family system."

If there is such a thing as natural child birth then there is such a thing as healthy, natural, regular family.

>In part because the social persecution of homosexuality is a result of hypocritical bourgeois moralism.

Why do you say this, when homosexuality has been promoted in the media since the 80s, it's also part of the values of the religion practiced by the people in power. The only reason why would promote persecution of homosexuals while using media and politics to encourage it would be for victimhood, not division. Also Homosexuality is moraless flood gate to the New world order.

>Generally speaking, "homosexuals" didn't exist in the ancient world.

Yes, there were not a preference/political identity they were sort of a fetish club.

>(which in part was motivated by reaction against European paganism at the time).

Do you have some source of this, i'm interested in more details on this?

>You can look for example to the Abrahamic religions and their proscription against those that "lie with a man as they would a woman." The ban isn't against people, but behavior

>So the problem isn't homosexuality in itself, but rather "homosexuals," so to speak, the sort of people that make their behavior their identity, and either consciously or unconsciously conform to the idea of "gayness" established by bourgeois society.

I agree, i don't think "Gay people" are a problem, but their behavior goes against straight families.

https://hooktube.com/watch?v=qEaLo0gLKeE

>>2546725

>The bourgeois notion of "raising your own children/family"

Why do you believe this? The family unit is a defense against the end game of the people in power. see second pic

>If there's a gay uncle or lesbian cousin thrown in there, so be it. It's not really a big deal.

In a perfect world where lifestyles and sexual preferences don't work against other institutions and orientations that would work. The Hooktube i posted should explain why in much more thorough manner, why it's a big deal, but basically, homosexual individuals don't have sex in the same way that straights should (that's not to say that straights aren't deprived as well) but straights have the option to have have sex without lust being the main focus, being able to procreate allows for a positive way to have sex without lust/eroticism cheapening it to depravity.

>As for feminism,it's only relevant insofar as basic rights are concerned.

The problem with this is that it sounds reasonable at first, and then a decade later (with some social engineering) the left becomes more, and more left, and it's not enough to give women a choice (where they had other means of power against men, It's not about stopping the "slavery" of marriage, or never giving into motherhood. Feminism isn't even a problem with my ethnicity right now, but the damage that it's done to whites, has made them quite the example.

>The exploitation would still exist and out goal as communists is to eliminate exploitation.

The problem is the identity politics your movement houses or sides with, are controlled, and this isn't just from a /pol/ perspective, even if you're allowing them for the aspect of liberation, they're used for the end game of the world order of the global families.

Luckily this was before i was born, but my country was in a "communist" motivated civil war against the rich of the country, when everyone was told they would be rich/equal, that they just to take out the wealth of the rich, people either left, or fought the rich. The result is a rotten country lead to a crime economy by endless gang delinquency that continues to this day. There was a documentary published about this, and one gang member was shown wearing a freemasonic ring. I get that it's not the kind of communism you strive for, but communism is such a exploitable carrot on a stick, like any other promise to political prisoners.


 No.2567106

>>2567097

>Would you guys agree that all the enemies of the Jews, corporations, the rich and the Government are all the same people?

The latter three, yes, but people who blame the j00s for everything don't dislike the ruling class at all. In fact, they tend to be social darwinists that believe the ruling class is naturally superior.


 No.2567115

>>2567097

>It would really depend on what society you're talking about, but of course unorthodox families will work once feminism has bulldozed natural families.

What families are "natural" is determined largely by material conditions, which drive necessity, and in turn, tradition. Families have different shapes and sizes, and few of them are "unnatural".

>I agree, i don't think "Gay people" are a problem, but their behavior goes against straight families.

How does not persecuting gays prevent non-gays from living how they want?

>Why do you believe this? The family unit is a defense against the end game of the people in power. see second pic

The end game of individuals in the ruling class are arbitrary, what matters is their means, and the basic consequences of these means.

>basically, homosexual individuals don't have sex in the same way that straights should (that's not to say that straights aren't deprived as well) but straights have the option to have have sex without lust being the main focus, being able to procreate allows for a positive way to have sex without lust/eroticism cheapening it to depravity.

What is "cheapening"? If people are consciously choosing to do it, and do not see it as harmful, then I would think they disagree that it is not worthwhile.

The idea that heterosexuality is inherently pure is also laughable. People are not angels.

>The problem is the identity politics your movement houses or sides with

We keep trying to make them leave. They won't. However, even when they are gone, that does not mean we will become sympathetic to social conservatism.


 No.2567440

File: ce23d4651a96e49⋯.png (57.67 KB, 612x792, 17:22, answer-no.png)

>>2567097

>If there is such a thing as natural child birth then there is such a thing as healthy, natural, regular family.

That isn't logical.

>The family unit is a defense against the end game of the people in power

No, it really isn't.

>In a perfect world

Stopped reading.

>The problem is the identity politics your movement

Lurk more.

>everyone was told they would be rich/equal

I'm pretty certain they weren't told any such thing.


 No.2580030

File: fd9ec158d70efff⋯.gif (1.25 MB, 151x245, 151:245, le based nigger vs antifa ….gif)

File: d64344bdfcdc322⋯.jpg (173.17 KB, 552x736, 3:4, antifa.jpg)


 No.2580057

File: eaa426352ad638a⋯.gif (538.85 KB, 250x257, 250:257, eaa426352ad638a5aefb80dd29….gif)

>>2580030

Nice try, liberal.


 No.2581332

File: 0c6e9eba12144a9⋯.jpg (80.75 KB, 646x639, 646:639, 0c6e9eba12144a94c72880b6e9….jpg)

File: d9042d1234c9df3⋯.jpg (5.84 MB, 4920x4161, 1640:1387, anti-fornication s.jpg)

>>2567106

>In fact, they tend to be social darwinists that believe the ruling class is naturally superior.

Being successful on business isn't seen as something wrong, but They do acknowledge that low ball corporate antics are something to take seriously.

>>2567115

>Families have different shapes and sizes, and few of them are "unnatural".

It's really not that far off to say that one man and woman producing a child in a family institution is more healthy/natural than two gays adopting or one transwoman getting a womb transplant. Just taking into account that it's a natural body function makes it fit the description of healthy and natural.

>How does not persecuting gays prevent non-gays from living how they want?

Because they don't exist in a vacuum, they effect each other, just like how if everyone went Vegetarian it would effect what kinds of food you could buy.

>The end game of individuals in the ruling class are arbitrary,

By knowing you can least do something to stop or curve the global government that is encroaching or not yet externalized.

>What is "cheapening"?

>If people are consciously choosing to do it, and do not see it as harmful, then I would think they disagree that it is not worthwhile.

It's proven that the more people have sex out of marriage than the less stable the family will be.

>The idea that heterosexuality is inherently pure is also laughable.

It's not that it's inherently pure (because sex has always been used against people), it's that homosexuality is (and has been) so deprived.

>People are not angels.

I don't know, people are pretty similar to fallen angels.

>We keep trying to make them leave. They won't. However, even when they are gone, that does not mean we will become sympathetic to social conservatism.

Fair enough.

>>2567440

haha


 No.2581383

>>2581332

>It's really not that far off to say that one man and woman producing a child in a family institution is more healthy/natural than two gays adopting or one transwoman getting a womb transplant. Just taking into account that it's a natural body function makes it fit the description of healthy and natural.

Surgery is unnatural, technically, but adoption is not. I have not seen any evidence that demonstrates that two gay guys are bad parents. I don't think two straight men would be bad adoptive parents either, after all.

There is also the fact that this is only the minimum size for a nurturing environment for children. No, I am not talking about polyamory or cuckolding.

>Because they don't exist in a vacuum, they effect each other, just like how if everyone went Vegetarian it would effect what kinds of food you could buy.

Yes, but so does literally everyone who does things for any reason. Explain how this in particular is so undesirable that it must be legally prohibited.

>By knowing you can least do something to stop or curve the global government that is encroaching or not yet externalized.

Government is just a functioning arm of the ruling class. GLOBALIZUM in right wing parlance is vague gibbering fear of some Big Other.

>It's proven that the more people have sex out of marriage than the less stable the family will be.

Correlation is not causation. Besides, not everyone is fit for family life.

>It's not that it's inherently pure (because sex has always been used against people), it's that homosexuality is (and has been) so deprived.

Why? You are perfectly entitled to feeling repulsed by it, but I genuinely do not care.

>I don't know, people are pretty similar to fallen angels.

You say it like it's a bad thing. The Abrahamic god is a psychotic retard and his dissenters had humanity's interests in mind.


 No.2581450

>>2581383

>Surgery is unnatural, technically, but adoption is not.

Clearly it depends on the parent, You can still life a fulfilling life with a sythetic leg, but having a biological one is definitely better.

>Explain how this in particular is so undesirable that it must be legally prohibited.

It's not that it should be legally prohibited, it's like a stepping stone, just like how feminism is also a tool to delay/remove marriage and keep men in certain state. It's just a dangerous idea/mentality that should be socially discouraged.

>Government is just a functioning arm of the ruling class

I agree

>GLOBALIZUM in right wing parlance is vague gibbering fear of some Big Other.

Why do you feel immune to the NWO?

>Why?

Bug-catchers, their prevalent hookup culture, they don't even try to create gay families, they mostly just casual and recklessly have sex. I'm not saying straights are not deprived, but it's different goal.

>You are perfectly entitled to feeling repulsed by it, but I genuinely do not care.

It's not repulsion, i feel pity for them. Their communities have a clear emptiness that they try to fill with vain deceived sex appeal. Are you gay? It's manipulation for a man to be effeminate, and vice versa.

>The Abrahamic god is a psychotic retard

According to who, Nag Hammadi library?

>and his dissenters had humanity's interests in mind.

You're talking about three different religions with three different gods/concepts of god, and three different prophets/messiah. The term Abragamic god/religion is really misleading to whoever uses it.


 No.2581461

>>2581450

>Clearly it depends on the parent, You can still life a fulfilling life with a sythetic leg, but having a biological one is definitely better.

Sure, but it's not like gay couples are stealing the unwanted kids from straight couples.

>It's not that it should be legally prohibited, it's like a stepping stone, just like how feminism is also a tool to delay/remove marriage and keep men in certain state. It's just a dangerous idea/mentality that should be socially discouraged.

You have yet to actually explain why. You are just saying "it's bad" ad nauseam.

>Why do you feel immune to the NWO?

Because the old "world order" doesn't exist to begin with, it's idealism. Makes no difference when existing government is already repressive.

>Bug-catchers, their prevalent hookup culture, they don't even try to create gay families, they mostly just casual and recklessly have sex. I'm not saying straights are not deprived, but it's different goal.

>It's not repulsion, i feel pity for them. Their communities have a clear emptiness that they try to fill with vain deceived sex appeal. Are you gay? It's manipulation for a man to be effeminate, and vice versa.

I am, actually, and you sound like you literally do not know what homosexuality is. Others do not operate on your religious beliefs.

I was also mostly joking about the last part. Religion is more degenerate than any sexual proclivity.


 No.2582979

>>2581461

>Sure, but it's not like gay couples are stealing the unwanted kids from straight couples.

No, but they're indoctrinating them children of straight couples using media. It used to be that Gays were born gay, and therefor no one could say anything about them, now it's that no one is 100% gay.

>You have yet to actually explain why. You are just saying "it's bad" ad nauseam.

Because if you don't see why a social engineered political identity that used to be a fetish club that has been abundant in depravity is bad by now than you never will. Many belief systems are against Homosexuality, and there is a reason the religion of the people in power is in favor of inverting/confusing the sexes.

>Because the old "world order" doesn't exist to begin with, it's idealism.

Then there would be no point in moving people to accept institutions/ideas they wouldn't have previously chosen.

>Makes no difference when existing government is already repressive.

You really think that you'll be okay so long as you can reach the means of production? who will you reach in on a jail cell the size of planet, when 2/3s of population is gone?

>and you sound like you literally do not know what homosexuality is.

Explain how your definition of homosexuality negates mine.

>Others do not operate on your religious beliefs.

You think that because you don't subscribe to my religious beliefs that you're spiritually neutral? It's the same as those people who say they're not into politics and they buy into one extreme without realizing it.

>Religion is more degenerate than any sexual proclivity.

How does an ancient belief systems of purity and self discipline translate to degeneration?


 No.2583330

>>2582979

Like I said before, your view of the matter is heavily tinted by your religious views. Sexuality is a psychological trait, not an ideology, culture, or fetish; any notion of "gay culture" is a facet of liberal identity politics, and statistically higher antisocial behavior among gays is due to abuse and ostracism over their sexuality, chiefly by family.

You also seem to have strong tinfoil inclinations, which I won't bother addressing.

>How does an ancient belief systems of purity and self discipline translate to degeneration?

There is nothing virtuous about genocide, thoughtcrime or denial of scientific reality. It is no more meaningful than an acid trip.


 No.2583580

File: e13ad95cf93465c⋯.jpg (119.73 KB, 498x960, 83:160, e13ad95cf93465ce13480a2d50….jpg)

File: 20be16c417c8885⋯.png (124.58 KB, 1023x324, 341:108, beastiality is legal in ca….png)

File: 307c8f853a9c152⋯.png (690.24 KB, 3558x3364, 1779:1682, 307c8f853a9c1527d6c7819f91….png)

>>2583330

>Like I said before, your view of the matter is heavily tinted by your religious views.

It's not only Religion that sees the problems that come from homosexuality. I was against it before, and after it only showed me the spiritual aspect and why the people in power love invert or distort natural/healthy gender.

>Sexuality is a psychological trait, not an ideology, culture, or fetish;

You're right that it's psychological, meaning you're not born gay. It's a fetish that is made into a political identity.

>any notion of "gay culture" is a facet of liberal identity politics

Generally Leftism is pretty open to gays.

>and statistically higher antisocial behavior among gays is due to abuse and ostracism over their sexuality, chiefly by family.

The problem isn't antisocial behavior.

>There is nothing virtuous about genocide

Depends on what war/religion you're talking about, there isn't anything wrong with defensive war. I'm sure you know plenty of communist examples of genocide as well.

>thoughtcrime

What a thing to say, especially if we're taking about a belief system about redemption, mercy and sending you help, at the price of giving up vices that harm you. The entity trying to help you supersedes the earth being trying to devour your soul.

>denial of scientific reality

Science is good for what it can study, but there are things in this world that cannot be studied or explained, Also lots of previous scientific scholars have been religious.

>It is no more meaningful than an acid trip.

There are people who spend life times trying to find it. After you find it, he will alter the world around you to help you where you need it. can you tell me something more meaningful than having a relationship with the spiritual entity that created the universe?


 No.2583595

>>2583580

>Those images

Maybe the 1st and 3rd one is right but fuck off with the rest.

>You're right that it's psychological, meaning you're not born gay. It's a fetish that is made into a political identity.

So what? Fuck off with your spooks /pol/ people can indulge in their fetishes, be it homosexuality, beastiality, or pedophilia.

>There is nothing virtuous about genocide

>Depends on what war/religion you're talking about, there isn't anything wrong with defensive war. I'm sure you know plenty of communist examples of genocide as well.

Both of you are wrong, all 6 gorillion people killed by us are justified, and we're going to kill 100 gorillion more soon.

>Science is good for what it can study, but there are things in this world that cannot be studied or explained,

Why do you think that is.

Now go jack off into a tree or some shit you pagan retard or whoever you are, /pol/.


 No.2583602

File: 516fa5139129805⋯.gif (2.64 MB, 400x225, 16:9, 15nveqp - Copy.gif)

>>2583595

>Now go jack off into a tree or some shit you pagan retard or whoever you are, /pol/.

Not /pol/ or pagan, but that made me laugh.


 No.2583659

>>2583602

>>2583595

>jack off into a tree

sorry, couldn't resist posting this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z53pwkyKvTY

pls watch


 No.2584040

>>2583580

Maybe not some specific religious dogma, but it is clear you are driven by the kind of idealistic superstition that drives people to religion outside of desperation. Once again, you have failed to actually demonstrate why being gay is bad, only asserting that it is ad nauseam. Yes, left wing politics generally aren't against homosexuality, but this is because we do not consider it a public matter like economics or international relations.

>a belief system about redemption, mercy and sending you help

Telling innocent people they are bad and need to be "fixed" is inhumane, and if you act on this notion, you deserve death.


 No.2584096

>>2584040

> but it is clear you are driven by the kind of idealistic superstition

There are plenty of reports of divine miracles.

>Once again, you have failed to actually demonstrate why being gay is bad

https://hooktube.com/watch?v=qEaLo0gLKeE

>Telling innocent people they are bad

It's not telling people they're bad, it's helping them to be mindful of vices that harm them.

>and need to be "fixed" is inhumane, and if you act on this notion, you deserve death.

Forcing someone into something is against my belief system. It must always be completely voluntary, it's must always be done by choice, or else it would be it's own opposition. Free will critical to humanity.


 No.2584139

>>2584096

>There are plenty of reports of divine miracles.

Doesn't make 'em true.

>https://hooktube.com/watch?v=qEaLo0gLKeE

Not watching. Explain.

>It's not telling people they're bad, it's helping them to be mindful of vices that harm them.

>Forcing someone into something is against my belief system. It must always be completely voluntary, it's must always be done by choice, or else it would be it's own opposition. Free will critical to humanity.

If you say so. To each his own.


 No.2584447

File: fa0806a449b22c1⋯.jpg (103.88 KB, 1080x810, 4:3, 5648.jpg)

can someone drop the discord link


 No.2584850

Leftist but not socialist?


 No.2585357

File: bc1be64b6dc7c8f⋯.png (220.42 KB, 2000x2400, 5:6, Porky.png)

Why did you become communist, or what made you become a communist?


 No.2585577

>>2585357

Lurking on /marx/ and /leftypol/


 No.2587355

Am I still banned?


 No.2590011

>>2585357

observing the realities of my situation and material conditions

that and reading a bit of theory


 No.2590658

File: d3cee0bf4f806b4⋯.jpg (160.38 KB, 1337x1034, 1337:1034, af5f4df7c57b26900260247bb8….jpg)

>>2584139

>Doesn't make 'em true.

pic related.

>Not watching. Explain.

Would you disagree with Gays being part of the "bourgeois" that run media and porn, like hugh hefner?


 No.2590728


 No.2590980

>>2590728

The laws of physics are not exactly flexible, at least not at the level at which human society operates. People have been claiming magical shit since time immemorial, but again, that doesn't make it a fact.


 No.2591133

File: 0bb70d27fac08e3⋯.webm (13.88 MB, 640x360, 16:9, Religion and Science by C….webm)

>>2590980

It's 7:22

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZRxxcsNdqkk

You literally quoted pic related >>2590658

>Because all miracle reports are false

Science is good for reproducible experiments or clear measurements, but not everything can be reproducible nor measured.

This also falls into the 1st pic in >>2583580 also the third pic relates to this.


 No.2591174

>>2591133

Of course I quoted him, he already explained the point effectively. A lack of a simple and decisive explanation at the immediate moment is not an excuse to start ascribing things to magic and fairy tales.

Also, video is an appeal to authority. The idea that smart people cannot believe stupid things is very naive. See: Nobel disease


 No.2591232

>>2591174

>A lack of a simple and decisive explanation at the immediate moment is not an excuse to start ascribing things to magic and fairy tales.

Well then it's a good thing we have centuries of study on it, and it's in no way a rushed out explanation.

There are soo many belief systems and religions out there, it's beyond stupid to believe yourself to be so advanced that you can invalidate them to sorcery and false tales.

>video is an appeal to authority

No science literally cannot explain what i can't study. It can study that is created, but not what created it. Thankfully there is history and public events for that, as well as internal spiritual mechanism in the body.


 No.2591363

>>2591232

>Well then it's a good thing we have centuries of study on it, and it's in no way a rushed out explanation.

No one cares how careful it is if it is not scientific.

>There are soo many belief systems and religions out there, it's beyond stupid to believe yourself to be so advanced that you can invalidate them to sorcery and false tales.

Bandwagon. Religion itself is easily explainable from a sociological and psychological point of view. For that matter, not all faith is even incompatible with materialism.

>No science literally cannot explain what i can't study.

Then it is a lie. Deal with it, nerd.


 No.2591532

File: 1391928b4ddd429⋯.jpg (76.25 KB, 766x450, 383:225, science and atheism.jpg)

>>2591363

>muh science/scientism


 No.2591663

>>2591532

>science = scientism

There is a difference between what science cannot be applied to, and what is bullshit because science can be applied to it.


 No.2593111

File: 3f33a24c6de93da⋯.jpeg (2.19 MB, 4032x3024, 4:3, 961CA1AF-7488-49C1-B3A5-9….jpeg)

File: be9648aea9a51bf⋯.jpeg (1.25 MB, 4032x3024, 4:3, E793F1CC-66CD-4EF3-AD51-E….jpeg)

Complete and utter newfriend here. I’ve been in right politics for quite a while, but it was only actually meeting fascists on Discord and seeing how absolutely stupid and desperate they are that I’ve decided to give the left a better look. How can I honestly knock down racists and antisemites in one swift blow, considering racial hatred and an appeal to “Tradition” is the only thing keeping them from being far left if I understand it correctly.


 No.2593119

>>2593111

I'm more of a "lots of different blows [by a lot of different people] done in parallel to induce catastrophic failure" per Soviet deep operations theory rather than one swift blow.

Anyways, trying to argue a racist or a fascist out of their views has a fairly poor track record since people often join those groups before they even adopt the views. That comes after. I think a lot of them, like everybody else, are rather ordinary people in search for a sense of purpose and meaning (this is the desperation) that modernity and neoliberal (or frankly just liberal) capitalism fails to provide. If I'll give reactionaries anything it's that they often have a better understanding of this. Way better than the liberals for sure, which is why liberals often enable them.

My advice is to ask yourself: what do the fascists and their enablers not want me to do? I'd think about what that thing is, and then I'd do that thing. That's where I'd start.


 No.2620397

>>2593119

>what do the fascists and their enablers not want me to do?

have a sense of purpose and meaning

be able to convey this to others

it is not a coincidence that the view in the academy that the right misrecognizes as cultural Marxism is rabidly opposed to the teleological view of history Marxism generates


 No.2626661

File: b699e649a8acfcf⋯.png (486.31 KB, 997x863, 997:863, Yuri Bezmenov.png)

File: 3e83498fd552287⋯.png (571.31 KB, 1732x1324, 433:331, leftpol The family is not ….png)

Can you guys debunk this?


 No.2626669

File: 955fb04c852c84e⋯.png (148.08 KB, 371x353, 371:353, 955fb04c852c84e9f4f27a0103….png)

>>2626661

I've met like 3 commies that ever liked engels idea of the dilution of the nuclear family or thought it was a good idea.

I don't think there is need to debunk that, is too unpopular to enforce it.

don't know what they are talking about in the first post though


 No.2626962

>>2626661

Yes, "family values" are bourgeois propaganda. The rigidity of nuclear family is not natural, family structure can be highly variable and pragmatic. People who believe nuclear families should be standard in society are, in fact, against tradition.

But like >>2626661 said, the first pic is nonsense. Burgers don't understand how politics work outside of burgerland.


 No.2627033

>>2626962

Fuck, burgers don't understand how politics work even in burgerland


 No.2627320

>>2626962

>the first pic is nonsense. Burgers don't understand how politics work outside of burgerland.

Could you elaborate?


 No.2628181

File: 0a5c24a1f98f7a8⋯.jpg (46.86 KB, 680x600, 17:15, dae.jpg)

Did this actually happen?


 No.2628259

>>2628181

is chan in generals tbh

as much generacy talk there is in /pol/ they are hella gay


 No.2628261

>>2628181

gosh I wish that were me


 No.2634472

Do you guys have an example of a communist country done correctly?


 No.2634609


 No.2636458

why the fuck are there 2 leftypol boards? (this one and /leftpol/)


 No.2637246

What does "NAZBOL" mean?


 No.2637336

>>2637246

It's a method for retards on the board to identify themselves so that you don't have to waste any time reading their posts.


 No.2637686

>>2637246

It's basically a fucking meme.

Anyone who takes it seriously are retards.

You can find NAZBOL GANG HQ here >>>/autpol/

t. someone who fucking loves nazbol memes


 No.2641749


 No.2643262

So what is all this shit with /leftpol/ about?

How are they different? Should I even care?

I left 8chan about a year ago because I felt it was making me a more bitter and cynical, and just overall was a huge waste of time. So I am largely out of it.


 No.2643570

What is your opinion on universal basic income?


 No.2643633

>>2643570

doesn't go far enough


 No.2644473

File: 474ada07fe96cd1⋯.png (50.22 KB, 625x189, 625:189, torposter.png)

is tor posting banned here? or is this image fake?


 No.2644509

>>2643262

You'll probably get told completely different things here than they'd tell you there.

They're mostly a bunch of LARPing liberals.

>>2643570

It's a bandaid on a bullet wound.


 No.2644985

File: 4326671bdbf668c⋯.jpg (88.05 KB, 1023x575, 1023:575, 617E243A-4051-4291-A7C9-4A….jpg)

File: 35759074c1c3e87⋯.jpg (201.99 KB, 1300x958, 650:479, moscow-the-demonstration-o….jpg)

File: b34c502db82b9c3⋯.jpeg (61.3 KB, 650x372, 325:186, national-bolshevism-66a07….jpeg)

>>2637246

It is from russian "нацбол". It is abbreviation from "national bolshevik". And it really exists. It is not only a meme. National bolshevism is one of these "3rd position theories".


 No.2645016

>>2637246

"Stalinists" that take every slander against Stalin, consider these things a positive and attack MLs and dismiss anything contradicting them coming from Stalin himself as "lies".

Quote Stalin on Nationalism and Internationalism and they'll outright deny that it was his position. You point towards policies and they'll deny them and distort them with anti-communist propaganda into what they want it to be.


 No.2645931


 No.2647410

File: 94ba1623b024cc7⋯.png (572.64 KB, 1506x3976, 753:1988, 94ba1623b024cc7d0ca28199e2….png)


 No.2648506

How can you be a Christian and a communist? How can you mix social/spiritual conservatism with a government based on liberalization? Wouldn't your leftist political prisoners get in the way of being morally against sexual immorality and obeying the government, while being against uniting of nations and promoting political divisions?


 No.2648550

Why don't you have ID on you board, it's misleading for conversations.


 No.2649261

(assuming my definitions are correct) The biggest criticism of communism and socialism is how much control it would give the government to handle the income of it's citizens. If the workers owned the means of production, wouldn't there still need to be some government entity to Handel certain things?


 No.2649360

File: 372c64c41e117ad⋯.jpg (27.4 KB, 400x400, 1:1, 372c64c41e117ad9572e4d20a7….jpg)

>>2627033

>>2626962

>burgers don't understand how politics work even in burgerland

You can do better, Explain why that image is wrong. Yuri Bezmenov has to be have the best insider's story against communism.


 No.2649580

>>2649360

You said it yourself

He has the

>Best story

His story is fiction on the level of Gulag Archipelago

He went to the west and started talking about how the USSR had these big plans, went into detail about crazy things, but you have to remember the fact that he, as a propaganda editor and writer je had nothing to do with the west, but was stationed in India.

AND as a propaganda editor, he had an easy time going to the west and claiming that whatever he wanted, remember that the better story the defectors gave to the west, the better they made their own situation.

Since it doesn't matter if their stories are true or false if they are scandalous.


 No.2649611

>>2649580

This is what /leftypol/ told me years ago, but do you have any evidence beyond hearsay that he was a double agent?

>AND as a propaganda editor, he had an easy time going to the west and claiming that whatever he wanted, remember that the better story the defectors gave to the west, the better they made their own situation.

He was actually pursued in Canada once Russia found out. US still has to at least pretend to be against Russia, so it makes sense that they'd hear him out, that doesn't debunk his story. Even if they're tied together be something (in your case it would be the rich) they still against each other, like if America wanted dirt on china for example.


 No.2652554

File: 2bbfef021246cb5⋯.jpg (44.77 KB, 600x600, 1:1, 8e6d7f3ed9372c1924aa8f4fd7….jpg)

>>2652523

>fucking a cat

this is based and redpilled


 No.2653997

File: 0662846050da9a6⋯.png (599.17 KB, 576x768, 3:4, ENERGY.png)

>>2652554

>be me

>pull up to first page

>first shit I see

>anon you replied to had their post deleted so I have zero context

>pic not related


 No.2654009

File: e9c0f405b9be86d⋯.png (6.89 KB, 138x255, 46:85, 8dfb2847aba8f4a2e6db548ea6….png)

>>2653997

it was video of him fucking a dead cat (i think it was dead )


 No.2654012

File: 3284951f30e6f86⋯.jpg (24.8 KB, 480x491, 480:491, begone degenerate.jpg)

>>2654009

What

The

Fuck?


 No.2654014

File: 9db1b8c8a750ed5⋯.jpg (51.64 KB, 960x540, 16:9, 9db1b8c8a750ed591689c0c9b3….jpg)

>>2654012

it was pretty hot tbh


 No.2654522

If you guys weren't gay would you still be communist/socialist?


 No.2654524

>>2654522

if you werent in the closet would you still be a faggot?


 No.2654587

File: 7e90d70c898ff7c⋯.png (207.58 KB, 500x332, 125:83, A seal that turns over to ….png)

>>2654524

I asked first.


 No.2655068

If capitalism was defeated and communism became the dominant ideology wouldn't it just be the same compromised kind of communism that is pointed to today as "no real communism" and couldn't it be exploited because food and money/jobs would come from the government. Even if you controlled the means of production wouldn't a corporate wolves in communist government entity clothing just adapt to a communist structure?


 No.2655733

>>2655068

If the historical eastern block is a guide they'd have to adapt to not being able to exploit the system much beyond what a skilled welder, senior academician or designer would earn

also as recipients of this historical legacy, we can do better surely


 No.2663355

> comment is too short

Why the hell isnt the minimal length explained in the rules.


 No.2664372

File: e763b9af1801fe8⋯.png (73.92 KB, 389x355, 389:355, 432asdf.PNG)

>>2663355

are you mad because you have to rewrite it all?


 No.2670306

File: be8f4c154380b0e⋯.jpg (52.28 KB, 424x424, 1:1, clown_world.jpg)

>decide to finally check out /marx/

<this board is for those who identify as Marxist-Leninist in some form


 No.2675724

File: b6d63b19e99eeb5⋯.png (95.05 KB, 650x568, 325:284, Capture.PNG)

File: 667695d14f22e83⋯.png (141.75 KB, 282x245, 282:245, cockshott.png)


 No.2679870

/pol/ here. Is it correct to call all the endless regulations created in democratic nations as ''elements of socialism". It is democratic, it is in a sense control over means of production. If not, then why?


 No.2679912

>>2679870

>bourgeois "democracy" is the proletariat controlling the MoP

This aint it, chief.


 No.2679949

>>2679870

>law passes saying energy company can only dump 90% of the lead they currently dump in your water supply

<wow it's like I really have a democratic stake in this operation and get a share of the produced value


 No.2679969

>>2679949

> <wow it's like I really have a democratic stake in this operation and get a share of the produced value

You get it through taxes.


 No.2679987

>>2679969

how are you not just a liberal?


 No.2680699

>>2680095

Standards are passed because workers democratically elected gov which puts these rules in place.


 No.2682206

>>2681611

De jure, maybe, de facto workers have some control through the gov.


 No.2682388

>>2682206

Firstly the government is not controlled by the workers it is class rule subjected onto the working class with the illusion of a democracy, and in no way do the workers themselves own and manage the means of production.

"“The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them.” t.Marx

Bernie/Social democrats/""Radical"" demoncraps are not socialist in ANY WAY. Giving out welfare and free education but maintaining the capitalist mode of production and ownership is in no way Socialist. Bismark handed out welfare but we don't call a 19th century absolute monarchy Socialist or "part socialist"


 No.2683284

>>2682206

It seems lazy to just dump quotes to make my argument for me but they say it much more eloquently than me

>The highest form of the state, the democratic republic, which in our modern social conditions becomes more and more an unavoidable necessity and is the form of state in which alone the last decisive battle between proletariat and bourgeoisie can be fought out – the democratic republic no longer officially recognizes differences of property. Wealth here employs its power indirectly, but all the more surely. It does this in two ways: by plain corruption of officials, of which America is the classic example, and by an alliance between the government and the stock exchange,

>And lastly the possessing class rules directly by means of universal suffrage. As long as the oppressed class – in our case, therefore, the proletariat – is not yet ripe for its self-liberation, so long will it, in its majority, recognize the existing order of society as the only possible one and remain politically the tall of the capitalist class, its extreme left wing. But in the measure in which it matures towards its self-emancipation, in the same measure it constitutes itself as its own party and votes for its own representatives, not those of the capitalists. Universal suffrage is thus the gauge of the maturity of the working class. It cannot and never will be anything more in the modern state; but that is enough. On the day when the thermometer of universal suffrage shows boiling-point among the workers, they as well as the capitalists will know where they stand.


 No.2683288


 No.2728322

>>518058

Why there isn't a Trots flag?


 No.2728416

>>2728322

but there is


 No.2761656

>>2728322

>Trots


 No.2788743

>>2761656

>Arguing over leaders, and not recognizing they were both right about a lot (stalin with socialism in one country if nothings international, and trotsky about the USSR eventually destroyying itself + internationalism first)


 No.2788754

File: 657cf783f951181⋯.jpg (15.9 KB, 200x171, 200:171, Our Power Lies In Organiza….jpg)

>>2675724

>strongest in organization

I shall shill the only good leftist org in the us until i die


 No.2789739

Can we replace that shamrock with a starry plow?

It's important symbol for irish syndies, and even ML's due to it being one of the first soviet flag designs, and the IRA's flag of choice.


 No.2789746

>>2789739

than you for coming to my ted talk

>>2788754 PSL is also pretty good. btw if anybody knows of any non party splitting trots drop their name, as i want to defend trots a bit


 No.2789751

>>2789746

*thank fml


 No.2798676

add https://leftist.site to backup boards


 No.2799750

I haven't really posted on /leftypol/, but I've been aware of this board since it was created. I just have one question. Why isn't /leftypol/ allowed to talk about Jews? I just want to hear your reasoning.


 No.2799831

>>2799750

Because they are not the problem, people from every single ethnicity or religious group are capable of doing the same things you attribute to jews.

How do you explain the Nazis releasing and keeping safe those same banker "parasite jews" they cried about, but killing of regular workers?


 No.2799881

>>2799831

I've read your post, but I'm not really satisfied by your reasoning as to why you're not allowed to talk about Jews.


 No.2802026

>>2799881

>>2799750

How are you not allowed to talk about jews? We have anti-zionist threads regularly


 No.2802675

>>2799881

Fuck off, low effort troll.




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