No.585737
Are there any Brazilians on here?
How do you see your country's future?
No.585750
>Are there any Brazilians on here?
Yes.
>How do you see your country's future?
Based on recent events I see it as a Christian conservative fascist theocracy.
No.585809
Can someone explain me whats happening with the PT?
Also why so many parties in your country have "socialist" names but then they have super liberal policies?
No.585847
>>585809
Not from Brazil, but-
>why so many parties in your country have "socialist" names but then they have super liberal policies?
==A U S T E R I T Y,== my boy.
No.585851
>>585750
Lol wat
Is this the new line of attack?
No.585855
What's the deal with Dilma? She used to be a Marxist rebel, right? Isn't she part of the pink tide? Yet she's disliked on the left?
No.585859
>>585855
Dilma has literally done nothing wrong ever in her entire life
No.585904
People think PT is a leftist party when they are really social democucks that barely lean to the left.
Even so, the media attacks PT nonstop, and they are accused of corruption in many levels, which make things worse
Dilma and Lula maybe were left in the past (as PT was) but they sold out to get in the power with the class colaboration meme / capitalism with a human face.
The congress is already a majority conservative so it's hard to get anything past those guys. PT had a congress majority before the last election so they couold make things change, but that was never part of their plan. Now their old "affiliate" parties are trying to crash the governement with no survivors.
This just taints the left image even more. The actual left parties barely have any congress representants, and the most popular with the young population (PSOL) focus a little too much into IdPol. Probably the next presidential election will have a conservative winner. We'll see.
No.585916
>>585855
She some kind of rebel, yes.
Marxists (or the left) dislike her and PT because they've just defended/implemented capitalism with a human face.
But now the Neo fascist (neo integralist), evangelical conservative tide is abrewing. And we are fucked.
No.585958
>>585855
>Yet she's disliked on the left?
My own experience is that most of the Left loved her and most of the Left celebrated her until the crisis hit.
During the 2014 elections, a few people on the more "hardcore" Left (a bunch of bitter Marxists like me and anarkiddies, mostly) refused to vote for either her or the center-Right opposition during the elections, and we were constantly mocked and attacked by her electorate. We were utopianists, we were dreamers, ungrateful, useful idiots of the Right and all that jazz.
Then the crisis came, her approval rating went down below 10% and all the humanities students who were in love with her suddenly became the *real* Left who think the Worker's Party sold out years ago and they hate their corruption, their state-capitalism, their complacency to the real crimes of the Elite, and so on.
They are now also desperately trying to make it look like they hate Dilma and the PT even more than the Right does in order to save face. Unsurprisingly, most people are unconvinced, and as anon said above the next elections will probably give us the most right-wing government in decades.
This is a pattern you quickly grow used to living in South America. Ever wonder why "economic warfare" is more widely discussed within the context of Chile and Venezuela than other countries? Because here it works. The majority of the Left here are a bunch of cowards, and they will happily side with Power (if it's vaguely left-leaning) against you, but as soon as that Power is threatened, they scatter.
No.586684
>>585750
As long as Christian = Catholic we'll be alright.
>>585904
If Lula makes through the current stream of shit coming his way I think he'll be much bolder from now on. He has already attacked the media openly.
No.590465
>>585809
>Also why so many parties in your country have "socialist" names but then they have super liberal policies?
It's like that across the world
No.590489
>>590465
the "oposition" party are Social Democrats (in practice they're neo-libs who want to privatize everything)
It's kekworthy.
No.590497
>>586684
>As long as Christian = Catholic we'll be alright.
It won't be catholic and we'll not be alright.
No.590660
>>590497
Brazilian evangelicals seem fucking terrible
At least Catholics have taste, the fucking megachurches are fuck ugly
No.592061
>>585958
>>585916
>>585904
thanks for the perspective.
No.592748
Another brazilian here. It's amazing how the media attacks the PT non-stop. Okay, I know that they are corrupt, but things are really ridiculous nowadays. They've come up with these supposed accusations by Delcidio against the PT. He already said numerous times the accusations are false, they were all made up, but the media keeps on pretending they're all true anyway.
FHC, the leader of the main opposition party, does some really fucked up stuff and the media doesn't even say anything about it. But still they keep on making up false stories about Lula, day in and day out. And most of the people probably believe everything.
The worst of all is that judge Segio Moro breaks the law the whole time. They start some investigation making up some false accusation, "reveal" everything to the media, and the media spreads the rumours as if they were true. Things are really fucked up recently.
No.592761
[Cont.]
Lula was almost illegally jailed recently, by orders of Sergio Moro. After going to the Congonhas airport, he would be sent to Curitiba. There was already some crew from Globo in Curitiba that day. Bolsonaro was also waiting for Lula's arrival, he had been informed previously. But I think Lula's arrest came to the knowledge of the Air Forces (who are responsible for taking care of security inside the airport), so they stopped the police operation halfway.
You see, the Congress has a conservative majority in the moment. So they're doing everything they can to sabotage the government. Maybe they'll have an impeachment process against Dilma, starting this week - which will be ilegal, of course. But it's hard to tell for sure. Everything depends, in large part, on the PMDB, which is the biggest party on Congress. And it's impossible to know what they'll come up with. They don't really have any kind of ideology or political line. They just do whatever to have as much power as possible.
No.592794
>>585855
Brazil had a military dictatorship from 1964 to 1990 or so. Dilma used to be a rebel at the time. But now the old rebels who remained communists are irrelevant in politics. And the ones who came to power are mostly social-democrats.
No.592796
>>592748
>It's amazing how the media attacks the PT non-stop.
What do you mean worker? They're objective and fair.
No.592804
The fact that the Porkonomist is frothing with rage at Dilma is enough for me to give full 100% support. Yeah I'm a socdem but it's pretty damn obvious when porky all of sudden starts aggressively going after a specific politician…
No.593005
>there are BRBR's thinking that PT is communist
Yeah, thanks Olavo, you nutjob…
Damn, even the oldest brazilian communist party (PCB) doesn't support Lula, Dilma or PT.
What I can see is that the brazilian left is doomed, along with Brazil in general.
No.593050
>>592761
> But I think Lula's arrest came to the knowledge of the Air Forces (who are responsible for taking care of security inside the airport), so they stopped the police operation halfway.
Isn't this a bit strange? I mean, our Army doing something like that….
No.593083
I think we're doomed to always go through a cycle of mild and short prosperity followed by a huge ass-fuck recession.
No.593367
we're fucked, our only hope is to create a hybrid of D. Pedro II and Getúlio Vargas to be our great dictator and lead us to the stars and beyond.
>tfw family members will vote for Bolsomito
No.593368
>>585904
>>585916
Didn't the PT used to be more radical?
t. burger
No.593443
>>593368
"Power is like a violin. You take it with the left, and play with the right."
No.593917
>Isn't this a bit strange? I mean, our Army doing something like that….
I think that times have changed. So the Armed Forces in general nowadays are by no means as anti-democratic as it used to be in the past.
Even in 1964, a part of the army decided to side with Jango and Brizola. Although they didn't do anything. Jango told he didn't want an armed conflict.
Even if nowadays the Army as a whole is against the government, the Air Forces seems to be in favour of Dilma. Or at least in favour of doing things according to the law.
No.593971
>>585809
The right-wing military dictatorship left the country with a ruined economy, massive hyperinflation and huge social inequality. At the time of the transition to democracy, no right-wing party would be stupid enough to admit to be be right-wing.
For example, PSDB ("Party of the Brazilian Social Democracy", main right-wing opposition, the party of Fernando Henrique Cardoso, José Serra and Aécio Neves) started as a Centrist alliance between "Third Way" Social Democrats and Christian Democrats. When FHC got on power it had gone full neoliberal, but from time to time you still see people saying that they're "center-left" (for example, FHC: http://politica.estadao.com.br/noticias/geral,centro-direita-nao-tem-a-ver-com-psdb-diz-fhc,781717 (in portuguese)), as a way of trying to convince the population that PT and mainstream center-left are "too radical".
The thing is, the far-right takes too serious things as party names and often accuse the PSDB of being socialist simply because of its name. And now they want someone "unashamedly right-wing" to represent themselves, like Jair Bolsonaro (a far-right Federal Deputy by "Progressive Party" (which is actually a right-wing, National Conservative party which descends from ARENA, the pro-dictatorship party at the time of the Military Dictatorship)) and the New Party (unashamedly neoliberal). You could say that Brazilian right-wing is pretty identitarian.
No.593986
>>593005
> the oldest brazilian communist party (PCB)
The old PCB died when Roberto Freire dissolved it to form PPS (which today is only a decoy from PSDB).
Today's PCB is more like a living museum in memory to the old PCB than anything else. Mauro Iasi is pretty based though.
Also, fuck PCdoB.
No.593992
No.594002
>>585750
Maybe I'm too idealistic, but I still have hope that we could pull a Syriza (pre-agreement)/Podemos/HDP. Too bad Rede Sustentabilidade is Eco-Liberal and PSOL seems to be more occupied in internal disputes than anything else.
Also, is anyone else seriously bothered by the surge on post-modern idpol in the Brazilian left?
No.594075
>>594002
i am fam
they're ruining the left's name
most people in Brasil nowadays just think communism is idpol
not like porky let's them know much anyways
No.594130
lol, there are a megaton of different parties in Brazil. Usually they have these very generic names, like People's Republican Party, Democratic Progressive Party, Socialist National Liberal Party, etc.
But nowadays there's this fad of giving the party "edgy" names. Like Rede Sustentabilidade (Sustentability Web), Partido Novo (New Party), Movimento Raiz (Root Movement), Solidariedade (Solidarity)…
Seriously, these new names are even more ridiculous than the old, generic ones.
No.594131
>>593971
Say what they will, I don't think the PSDB is really all that neoliberal. Jair Bolsonaro is more to the right than the PSDB. By the way, Bolsonaro just left the PP now, and went to the PSC (Christian Socialist Party - yeah, they're socialists in name only. It's even weird they have socialist in their name, since they're publicly against it in their discourse).
No.594133
>>594130
>Sustentability
Sorry for typo, it's Sustainability
No.594143
>>594075
idpol and communism are becoming synonymous because of porky's latest puppets (neo-liberals). It's infuriating and happening in many countries.
No.594153
>>594002
>I still have hope that we could pull a Syriza (pre-agreement)/Podemos/HDP
I believe the left can pull something like this but I'm afraid it wouldn't have the popular support necessary to get it anywhere. What I'm seeing is the right gaining more and more popular support each day thanks to the massive disinformation from the media and social networks.
No.594245
>>594131
It's Christian Social Party, not "Socialist". Due to enormous wealth inequality in the country, every party wants to say that they want to "help the poor", even if in reality they adopt measures which actually fuck up poor people. And considering last presidential election, with Pastor Everaldo answering any question in the debates with "I will privatize it", it seems PSC is going full neoliberal, now with "The Bless of God", Republican Party style.
>Say what they will, I don't think the PSDB is really all that neoliberal
I'd say PSDB is not neoliberal by principles, but by convenience, "was not born, but became". FHC used to be more left to the center and had some important works on dependency theory, in the 90's you could still find some SocDems like Mário Covas and even Christian democrats like Franco Montoro were fairly moderate. But since Lula was elected President and people like Geraldo Alckmin (which has ties with ultraconservative Catholic movements, like Opus Dei and Tradition, Family and Property) became more of "PSDB's face", they became more of a anti-PT Front than anything else, going to the point of accepting support of the worst the Brazilian far-right has to offer. Their candidate for mayor of São Paulo of this year's election, João Doria Junior, at this point looks like and imitation of Donald Trump, but if Trump looked like a posh guy that doesn't know how to talk to the working classes.
>Jair Bolsonaro is more to the right than the PSDB
Funny enough, in the wave of privatizations in the 90's, Bolsonaro used to say that FHC should be executed by a firing squad for "selling national heritage" and he still engages on that bullshit "muh Niobium" discourse, but nowadays he is a fully converted "muh entrepreneurship" neoliberal. What hasn't changed was his ultraconservative views on social issues.
>>594130
I can see why, since there is a rejection to pretty much every political party, with sayings like "all parties are the same" and "there is no such thing as left-wing and right-wing in Brazil, they all couple together to steal from us!" being popular for a long time. I still think that a "Podemos solution" would be the best for the actual moment, too bad these "we're not traditional parties, we're citizens movements!" groups seem to represent nothing new.
>Rede Sustentabilidade
Third Way Greens, think it's possible to conciliate market capitalism, social improvements and environmentalism, something like a green Ciudadanos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciudadanos). Claims to be "open, autonomous, decentralized and radically democratic", but hasn't done much to go beyond the "Party of Marina Silva" image. May be in danger of mass infiltration by conservative evangelicals and Deep Ecology freaks, but I may be just speculating.
>Novo
Unashamedly neoliberals, the "privatize all the things!" kind (even health care, schools and security).
>Solidariedade
They're pretty much PSDB's canon fodder. Their leader Paulinho da Força is the "owner" of Força Sindical ("Syndicalist Force") a "Trade Union" for "good workers", which acts more in the defense of porkies interests.
>Raiz - Movimento Cidadanista
Eco-socialists, they split from Rede when Marina Silva supported Aécio Neves in the second round of 2014's election. The most interesting of theses "party-movements" at the moment, with a focus on eco-socialism, radical democracy, government by consent, defense of indigenous rights and decentralization, but seems too "esoteric" with all this Teko Porã and Ubuntu bullshit and the lack of materialism bothers me. I heard that some of their members joined PSOL on a "democratic affiliation", including their leader (?) Luiza Erundina. I hope that it means we could have something like Barcelona in Common.
>>594153
Maybe if we could focus on something that could resonate with all the population (instead of focusing only on idpol minorities stuff, and I say that being a massive faggot myself), like the weight the public debt and its interest rates has in our daily lives, or how our tax system is rigged in favor of the ultra-riches.
But one thing is certain, we can't rely on PT anymore. They're beyond the point of salvation.
No.594260
What do you guys think of Ciro Gomes? I'm afraid he might pull a Putin-like move
No.594283
No.594295
These weird names for the parties are an international fad, I believe. See the Tea Party in the US for example. Well, they're not a real party actually, but even so… (btw, Tea Party's gotta be the most ridiculous name I've ever seen, lol)
And I still think Lula has a chance. He's one of the very few politicians who actually came from the working class, and due to Sérgio Moro's abuses, he can stress out how much he's been persecuted by the judiciary and the media.
No.594301
By the way, for who doesn't know him, Bolsonaro is very similar to Donald Trump in the US.
No.594312
>>594301
Except that Trump is more of an opportunist and a political outsider. Bolsonaro is an actual fascist and has been in political activity since the 90's.
No.594335
>>594295
>And I still think Lula has a chance
Great, more class conciliation.
>due to Sérgio Moro's abuses, he can stress out how much he's been persecuted by the judiciary and the media
Not happening. After all the disappointment we've had with the PT's opportunism and the eternal promise of a "turn to the left", nobody is willing to believe on them anymore, even if it turns out they are truly being politically persecuted.
No.594382
What about the Pirate Party?
No.594412
>btw, Tea Party's gotta be the most ridiculous name I've ever seen, lol
Well, scratch what I said. Actually there's one in Japan which is even worse:
- The People's Life Party & Taro Yamamoto and Friends
No.594450
Fucking useless Dilma fuck us for 8 year and now the people want the literal fascist, Bolsonazi as the Presidencial
No.594745
>>586684
>a Brazilian Tankie
Now, that's a new one!
No.594756
>>593083
What is capitalism?
No.594757
>>593443
This saying is pretty brilliant. t. who?
No.595117
We need your help to build the People's Republic of Maranhão.
**inb4
>PCdoB
I know, but it's better than Sarney family**
Meu Bunker Minha Vida when?
No.595240
>>594745
My grandma met my grandfather while fleeing from the Military Coup. She's also native to Maranhão like this comrade >>595117 .
No.595327
>>594757
Eduardo Galeano, Uruguayan writer who influenced South American intelligentsia quite a lot.
No.595343
>>595240
Where they fled to?
No.595405
>>595343
Brasilia, where I am now. Only my grandma was a commie though.
No.601043
File: 1458172972349.jpg (177.29 KB, 1006x794, 503:397, the_car_is_on_fire_and_the….jpg)
Welp, Lula just got named Chief of Cabinet. Everyone now is saying he did it for political immunity, others saying that he is practically a "Prime Minister" and the government just accepted that Dilma can't govern by herself anymore. Shit, there are people even saying he is now the de facto President.
Also, it seems to be happening right now massive spontaneous protests in Brasilia. Even here in my town Maceió there are happening "panelaços" (AKA Cacerolazos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cacerolazo).
Let's accept it, PT is dead.
Isn't it how Yanukovych fell?
No.601079
>>601043
At least we can say that something is finally happening
No.601125
>>601043
Brasilia is bourgeois as fuck. Don't mind us too much. Yuppies can literally take a bike ride to Congress.
It seems pretty convenient for him to receive that position right now, though.
No.601129
>>601079
Happenings have been pretty common the last few months.
No.601147
>>601129
>>601125
Things might settle down with Vargas, anon. Can we just resurrect him?
No.601157
>>601147
No.
Class Collaborationism is cancer.
No.601164
>>601157
I meant in the same way as Zizek once wrote: "We need today is a Thatcher of the left: a leader who would repeat Thatcher’s gesture in the opposite direction, transforming the entire field of presuppositions shared by today’s political elite."
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/politics/2013/04/simple-courage-decision-leftist-tribute-thatcher
No.601177
>>601147
Are you brazilian? Because I've never seen a leftist praising Vargas before. That's new.
No.601181
>>601177
I am - but I'm not praising him, just wishing we had such a "popular" figure in politics today, who could and would do something to confront how shitty things are.
No.601189
>>601125
>Brasilia is bourgeois as fuck
I know, but the bourgie protests dates were usually choose weeks before the actual protest. Theses ones are happening suddenly, spontaneously, remind me of how Viktor Yanukovych fell in Ukraine.
>It seems pretty convenient for him to receive that position right now, though.
For him? Sure, but now everyone it's seeing it as sort of guilty admission. And this sort of Putin-eque dick moves just help to discredit the Left even more in the eyes of the population, which is starting to see the whole Left-wing as "corrupt and authoritarian".
>>601147
Fuck Vargas and all Latin American caudillos. In the beginning, PT used to be some sort of Latin American SYRIZA, embodying an independent, democratic socialist Left who wasn't linked to either to Soviet-style "communism" nor Varguista paternalistic labour movement. They only ended up like this mess because Lula tried to emulate that class collaborationist + paternalistic charisma style, while abandoning any chance of actual reform. Why the fuck does MST still support them?
And lets not forget that Vargas was also an anticommunist, and had relations with nazi-fascist regimes before the 2nd World War, and just sided with the Allies because of US loans. Also, he handed out Olga Benário to the Nazis.
>>601164
Class collaborationist doesn't look much like "transforming the entire field of presuppositions shared by today’s political elite".
No.601203
>>601189
Mein gott, so what? PT is a decadent party, a neoliberal putrid degeneration since they were elected - they have always defended "capitalism with a human face", this is not new.
Where is/was the Left? What has the Left done to counter such destruction of the Labor organizations, moviments in the past 20 years or so? The vacuum created by this absence was a gift to the Right.
The Brazilian left sold themselves to PT; now we are reaping what they sowed: a mass rightist wave engulfing the whole of society and the political spectrum.
Give me a Vargas of the Left; give me aliens. I don't care what we do, our Left failed - we failed. We need to start all over again. While the Right doesn't.
No.601234
>>601203
>We need to start all over again.
I think that is exactly the reason why nearly everyone in the Left sold out to PT: They were afraid to confront the reality that their model was unsustainable and that the party had deviated so much from an actual socialist project. So they fed themselves this hope that all this collaborationist was only temporary and someday, somehow, the All-Mighty Lula or Great Mom Dilma would take a great turn to the Left.
All of this wishful thinking was done to avoid the truth that PT had already deviated itself from any socialist project and that, to seek actual socialism, would have to build another mass movement from the zero, all over again. And now without Lula's charisma, nor a failed Right-wing military dictatorship as a previous government to help to kick start a Left mass movement. Nowadays nobody cares anymore about agrarian reform, even auditing the public debt seems too risky.
And is also funny how every time some party like PSOL (which is pretty reformist, but is treated by the media as if it was Far-Left) criticizes the government based on a Left-wing point of view, it's treated as "fifth column" or "the Left-wing that the Right-wing likes".
No.601237
I hope you guys know how to hide your internet history and any leftist background you might had, because when bolsonaro become president he'll probably try to get us all killed.
No.601240
>>601237
>when bolsonaro become president
Nice joke m8.
I know she is at most social-liberal, but do you guys think Marina Silva has a chance? I'm starting to think that presidentialism was a bad idea.
No.601242
>>601234
>from the zero
top lel.
>>601237
meh, I'll take him over a neo-lib any day.
No.601243
>>601234
I agree with you anon. PT became the embodiment of the left, PSDB - of the right, and PMDB, the "neutral patriotic party".
This just depressing overall. Everything sucks.
>>601237
>tfw there are people who will vote for him
No.601244
>>601242
RIGHT
WING
DEATH
SQUADS
No.601265
>>601243
>neolibs
>patriotic
Cuck my life to pieces.
No.601267
>>601243
>PMDB
>neutral
Can we stop this meme?
No.601271
File: 1458182497902.png (766.47 KB, 945x642, 315:214, tfw you start to fade into….png)
>>601265
>>601267
PMDB supports what is "BEST" for the "COUNTRY"! That's why they supported FHC, then Lula and Dilma and now are the opposition!
Can't you see how "patriotic" they are, afterall?
Jesus christ, are you guys dumb? The " " was there for a reason
No.601284
>>601271
I understood your post, I was just sharing feels.
No.601289
I don't even care anymore, I just want the memes.
No.601304
>police literally wiretapping the chief of state and justice leaking their conversations to the media
>some people on the Left are uncritical of this behavior because they hate "statists" and "reformists"
When did we become so retarded?
No.601306
Brazil needs a full political reform at this point. Everything is fucked.
No.601325
>>601304
When you defend an vagabundo who just stole money and killed any chance of having a non-establishment government in the future.
No.601330
No.601337
just kill me fam, i hate everyone.
i just want someone that isn't asshole.
No.601345
>>601325
>vagabundo
kek. go eat your chicken wings you fucking simpleton.
No.601349
>>601325
Because it's likely that the US is behind all this shit and are using the scandal as an excuse to get their allies in so they can start exploiting the oil fields.
No.601404
How are you guys preparing for the next Ukraine? Will you join the armed struggle?
No.601407
>>601304
dilma is shit, even has a leftist she couldn't build fucking railroads (a basic infrastructure thing that all successful countries have if only to move grain and oil) so I have no sympathy for her
>>601349
No, if only because Pemex is about to be putup for sale and American companies would rather have that. But even then both parties in the US now support an oil import tax to prop up their own oil industries.
No.601413
>>601404
Brazil will just have another coup who will hopefully have a strong enough leader to get enough infrastructure built before he dies.
inb4 edgelord, I don't give a fuck about democracy or the plebs. I only care about making Brazil not shit and infrastructure is at the core of that.
No.601422
>>601349
I don't doubt it but without any proof that's just an Olavo's tier conspiracy.
No.601423
>>601345
Have something against the common folk?
>>601349
Yeah, the bankers who use the US as their muscle.
But Lula is still a moron who served his ass to everybody to become president and thought that himself was in power, now that they are done with him he is going down.
Not even counting his own corruptions.
No.601479
>>601413
Your strongman will certainly only build more roads, like what has been done here since always. Worse, private roads.
No.601796
>>601240
bump
Is Marina Silva a viable center-left alternative?
No.601803
>>601479
I like to think that fucking someone in the government is interested in making brazil into something that isn't a shithole. It's clear that socialists aren't capable of it.
No.601832
>>601803
I'm sure Cunha, Aecio/Alckimin or Bolsonaro will Make Brasil Great Again
No.601847
>>601796
Nope. She is unpopular within all the political spectrum.
No.601849
>>601796
Also, she's more aligned with the right-wing
No.602019
There are one or two people here that are literally right-wingers.
- Defending a new dictatorship from Bolsonaro or Aécio
- Not pointing out how Sérgio Moro (as usual) broke the law once again, this time by giving to the media a phone conversation between Dilma and Lula. This crime might possibly cost him his career as a judge.
>PT can't handle this country. I just want a right-wing dictatorship to build a lot of roads.
How is that discourse different from a right-wing nut?
No.602039
The coup in Ukraine was backed up by the US. As far as I can tell, the same is not happening in Brazil.
Kim Kataguiri's Movimento Brasil Livre, which directs the protests, is linked to the Students for Liberty Movement, which in turn receives money from the Catho Institute, the Koch brothers and the like. Even so, there's only so much that they are able to do.
José Serra very probably received money from Chevron to try to privatize oil exploration, but these international oil companies also don't have the power to change the government as a whole.
Besides, you're clearly overestimating the importance of these protests from yesterday. Moro passed some secret information taken out of context, just to incite this.
And there will be a huge demonstration in favour of the government this Friday.
And Lula will still be investigated by the Lava Jato operation, by the way. It's just that he will be investigated by the STF now, instead of that fascist Moro, who imprisons people whenever he feels like, reveals secret information to the media every single week, make illegal investigations, and so on, and so on…
And what's up with this fucking logic of some people here?
>PT is socdem, so we just ought to give up and give all the power to the right.
No.602074
>>601423
>Have something against the common folk?
What are you even talking about? Either you're a right-winger, or you're watching too much mainstream media. PT was elected, so the common folk want them to be in power. The media is not the "common folk". The protesters from Sunday are all from the high and middle classes, so they're surely not the "common folk" either.
>Lula is going down
How can you be so sure of that?
>Not even counting his own corruptions.
Well, he's being investigated. If something is proved, he'll be condemned. If nothing is proved, he'll not. As simple as that.
But Aécio very likely has a lot of illegal practices under his arm. And also Eduardo Cunha. So they are the ones who probably should be going down first.
No.602383
ids habbiding
20 bucks on PMDB/Bolsomito axis of evil victory
revolutionary vanguard party when?
No.602396
>>602383
>revolutionary vanguard party when?
No.602573
The happenings of this year are extremely similar to 1964. With the difference that the military is not participating on the coup. The police/judiciary is contributing to it instead.
No.602902
>>601407
>dilma is shit, even has a leftist she couldn't build fucking railroads (a basic infrastructure thing that all successful countries have if only to move grain and oil) so I have no sympathy for her
The type of petty concerns and priorities that explains how Latin America managed to remain basically a colony for half a millennium. Americans should take note of this post.
No.602973
>>601304
>>police literally wiretapping the chief of state and justice leaking their conversations to the media
wait what
Are you serious? Any links, please?
No.602991
File: 1458244855441.gif (64.13 KB, 500x446, 250:223, take my life away i want t….gif)
>>601243
I know that feel bro. I feel like I'm destined to always be politically alienated from society.
No.603001
Have faith! Good will prevail!
No.603016
>>603001
AAAAGAAATHAAAAAAAAAA
No.603035
No.603180
Are there any non brazilian on here?
Shit is getting really scary here. I'm afraid of waking up in the middle of a fucking pogrom in my house because I am, supposedly, a dirty left-winger PT supporter (that's what they say here in Brazil when you act rationally nowadays).
It's sad when the PT starts to seem like a victim. Great part of the left is kinda lost here, but beginning to act around the fight against this economical murder.
No.603239
>>601189
>>601203
>>601234
>>601237
>>601164
>>601147
>>601243
>>601271
This "capitalism with a human face" stance is derived from the fear that dictatorships caused in latin american leftists parties.
Carlos Franco, in "On How Democracy is Thought in Latin America" (Acerca del Modo de Pensar la Democracia en América Latina), said, making it brief, that the left abandoned their initial principles in order to mantain the very order they tried to subvert.
I know there is a lot of strategy behind this, but i happened that it blurred the line between appelaing to stratefy to straighfoward selling out.
No.603308
>>603034
Someone please shop Zizek onto his face change butter to ideology.
No.603469
File: 1458262889327.jpg (41.71 KB, 302x430, 151:215, tmp_I-dont-believe-in-char….jpg)
>>603396
Thank you very much!
No.603502
>>601413
>inb4 edgelord, I don't give a fuck about democracy or the plebs. I only care about making Brazil not shit and infrastructure is at the core of that.
le ebin post-ideological "whatever works" approach masking generic neoliberalism
No.603530
>>603502
It's tempting to give in to accelerationism when all the representative Left does is delegitimize our cause in the eyes of the common man.
No.604778
>>601306
>reform
we don't use that word here.
No.604799
>>585855
You either die as a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become a villain.
No.604816
As ANYONE could have predicted, the pro-Dilma protests are getting very few numbers in comparison to the anti-Dilma protests of a few days ago. It's genuinely embarrassing.
I don't know when the Worker's Party got so bad at actual politics but Jesus Christ. It feels like an amateur party at this point.
No.604941
>>604816
my mom's probably there atm. Shit sucks.
I wish Lula would Coup us for realz.
No.605048
Can I get an honest answer on how corrupt and shitty Lula/Dilma have been? Is it the media lying, or are they just honestly really crooked?
Here in the U.S. I see nonstop media on constant accusations of them stealing money from the public. Is there any evidence that the media actually has a right wing bias in Brazil? Or can we just acknowledge that PT fucked up big time?
No.605416
i like how Brazilian anarchists keep wasting their time on what snowflake version of anarchism is better.
No.605443
>>605416
Teenagers like to waste time
No.605451
>>605048
WHO DO YOU THINK OWNS THE MEDIA DAMMIT? DO YOU THINK IT IS ANYONE OTHER THAN A RICH CAPITALIST?
holy crap
No.605473
>>605048
Brasil's history is filled with corruption, like in the old republic (1889-1930) where it was commonplace to buy votes with jobs and gifts. Or in the Dictatorship where all of the "pharaonic" infraestructure have, to some measure, had a part of its resources used in corruption.
All in all what we have today is corrupt but most of it isn't from PT. There are a lot of cases from the opposition that are know but isnt investigated or at least its investigation isnt leaked like everything regarding Dilma and Lula is. For example "lista de Furnas".
No.605476
>>605451
I understand that. I am sure the media is going extra hard against PT, but that doesn't mean that PT hasn't engaged in some unacceptable behavior
No.605490
No.605754
>>605490
Holy SHIT, thank you so much for sharing this. Finally the situation makes sense. My gut has given me a bad feeling about the protests and this gives some clarity to it.
One thing I think worth mentioning, however. is that although the media twists the hell out of PT to make them look bad, the bottom line is, PT is thoroughly corrupt. All the parties are, but that doesn't make it okay for PT to be. My advice to Brazilian leftists would be to completely drop any hope of reviving the PT. They're just done for with no chance of recovering. Ideology aside you don't want PT anyways, they can't be trusted.
I think if Brasil wants any hope of recovering the left it would be for a left wing party, preferably left of PT, to come in with an emphasis on cleaning up the corruption. It would be difficult considering the right loves to paint the left as bureaucratic (PT isn't helping in this case) but its really the only hope i see.
otherwise have fun with a decade fascism
No.606328
>>605754
>le ebin meme PT is not left and is corrupt
Agora lembrei porque larguei dessa bosta chan. Bando de pseudo-esquerdistas dando munição pra direita, toma no cu. Agem como se o partido tivesse tido o poder para fazer qualquer outra coisa que não a fraca social-democracia.
No final provavelmente teremos mais uma ditadura militar, dessa vez os militares devem atacar os entreguistas(alem de exterminar o que resta da fraca esquerda).
No.606382
>>606328
edgy. face it, PT is corrupt as shit.
No.606463
>>606328
You really believe it wasn't corrupt?
Face it, Lula was a dumb shit, even if he had more power he would still fuck up.
No.606474
Well I'm kinda expecting 2 scenarios
Another military coup given how much rotten the 3 powers got.
And in the end the corruption will remain just the same , its just other people stealing the livehood of the labors.
Or the second scenario like >>585750 said. With PSDB and extreme right wings in the vanguard. But corruption will remain the same too here.
Now to say what is happening is just the fault of the elite trying to retake the power is a lie. When Lula decided to go "Lula lite" he simply throw all his beliefs in the garbage and end up building all this scenario that is happening right now.
You simply can't have the elite powers of the system working in cooperation with the oppressed classes. Since the system is built in a way where people are meant to be segregated in classes.
Anyway sorry for my bad english, I'm Brazilian.
No.606476
>>606328
Ah claro, vamos defender a corrupção da esquerda, vamos jogar fora todos nossos ideais em troca de poder, o poder que da validade para tais decisões ne?
Carl Schmitt mando oi, seu grande imbecil.
No.606524
>>606328
>can't criticize the "left" party
>can't criticize the decisions made by the "party"
>you have to support them, no matter what they do
>tankie
Makes sense.
No.606808
>>606474
>When Lula decided to go "Lula lite" he simply throw all his beliefs in the garbage and end up building all this scenario that is happening right now
If he hadn't we would never have made it where we are, after all the Cold War propaganda a proper Socialist would never be elected. excluded sectors of society are now joining the workforce and living overall better lives, something that could take several decades under neolibs, PT wasn't perfect but was as good as it could really get. Ideological purity gets us nowhere.
>>606476
"Ideais" não significam nada sem poder. Eu prefiro um corrupto que vá dar educação, saúde e moradia aos 95% que ganham até 2 salários mínimos do que um honesto que vai diminuir os impostos no proximo Iphone dos 5% restantes.
No.606818
As someone who doesn't live anywhere close to Brazil and has jackshit knowledge of the political parties,could any of you spoonfeed me on the situation,and how it happened?
No.606861
>>594002
>Also, is anyone else seriously bothered by the surge on post-modern idpol in the Brazilian left?
As a Portuguese guy, I fear that it spreads here. So far, the closest to that we have is some PSTU copycats (MAS) who are utter fuckwits who "stand in solidarity with the people's fight against corruption in Brazil" and they've never gotten an MP.
Other than that, the second largest leftist party in the Portuguese parliament is pretty idpol-ish too, but nothing at Brazilian or US-academia levels. I hope it stays that way… but the Communists seem to be losing votes to those dumb antimaterialists.
No.606883
>>606808
Por causa dessa bela manobra estamos arriscando de ter Bolsonaro como presidente.
Cagada que por sinal já tinha sido cometida pela União Soviética, que afundou com tudo depois que decidiu jogar os ideias da comuna e do governo do povo no lixo.
Melhor morrer com ideais do que ser o filho da puta que trouxe Hitler ao poder.
No.606896
If they give an impeachment on Dilma, the situation will be totally similar to what happened in Paraguay a coupla years ago. In Paraguay their last president received an impeachment, and also ilegally.
>As someone who doesn't live anywhere close to Brazil and has jackshit knowledge of the political parties,could any of you spoonfeed me on the situation,and how it happened?
In Brazil there are 3 main parties: the PT (soc-dem), the PMDB (centrist) and the PSDB (center-right). The current president, Dilma Roussef, is from the PT. But the National Congress has a conservative majority at the moment, so they're doing everything to sabotage the government. Since the media doesn't like anything even resembling socialism, they attack the PT nonstop and manipulate people's opinions.
Besides, it's the 4th time in a row the PT wins the elections for president, so the right in general got tired of "playing the democracy game", and are doing everything they can to seize power. Things got to the point that even the police and the judiciary are doing some clearly ilegal things.
No.607049
>>606818
>>605490
that article is good
No.607382
>>607049
Thank you,I now have some minimal insight of the things currently happening in Brazil.
No.608484
I wonder if there is a way for us to infiltrate a party like PSOL and try to de-idpol it.
No.608869
what do brazilians think about venezuela
No.608878
Aproveitando essa thread, alguém daqui conhece o MNN (Movimento Negação da Negação)? Me parece que é uma seita trotskyista como tantas outras, mas vejo que eles têm um ponto.
No.608905
>>608869
I cringe when people defend Chavez.
No.608914
>>608878
>Moviment Negation of the Negation
Sounds like the kind of thing Zizek could get behind
No.609290
>>608869
Just like the PT, the media here badmouths Venezuela nonstop, so people's opinions here are pretty bad. They also believe a lot of incorrect information as well.
Heck, if you ask a lot of people here in Brazil, they think that Foro de São Paulo is a kind of secret military organization, ready to invade other countries and kill everybody.
No.609297
>>608878
Nunca fui com a cara de trotskistas. Me parece o tipo de gente que nunca sabe fazer nada de construtivo. Só sabe falar mal dos outros, e estão sempre brigando internamente. Eles nunca conseguem montar um grupo coerente, porque sempre vai ter alguém disposto a dividir o grupo e montar uma corrente nova.
A própria esquerda brasileira como um todo é um reflexo disso. Ao invés deles se unirem e formarem um partido só, com alguma chance de se tornar relevante politicamente, eles ficam se dividindo em partidos cada vez menores - PSTU, PSOL, PCB, PC do B…
No.609564
>>609297
Bem, pelo pouco que sei, não acho que a multiplicidade de correntes seja um problema apenas da esquerda brasileira; acho que a esquerda, como um todo, sofre desse problema do sectarismo. São várias correntes: trotskyismo, leninismo, stalinismo, maoismo, spartacismo, socialismo libertário, etc. etc.
No.613257
No.614279
>>613257
>The PT president has instead launched an outright assault on the Brazilian working class and the workers’ and social movements. Massive cuts to health care, education, social welfare, and pension rights have been coupled with a government-sponsored anti-terrorist bill which may criminalize dissent and social movements. Meanwhile, the government continues to ally with some of the rottenest elements in Brazilian society, including corrupt clientelist political bosses and former members of the military regime.
>PT supporters have also conveniently forgotten that it was a PT government who sent the shock troops in to brutally break up the 2013 June Day demonstrations, the anti–World Cup protests in 2014, and which supports a police force that murders poor blacks on the peripheries of the big cities on a daily basis.
>Militant teachers’ strikes have broken out in Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo, and the combative homeless movement continues to mobilize large numbers in building and neighborhood occupations. Feminists and LGBT rights activists have launched important initiatives in recent months that cut against both the traditional right and the government. A plethora of antiracist groups and organizations against police violence are mobilizing throughout the country.
The Left can also draw inspiration and lessons from the explosion of student occupations in São Paulo at the end of 2015, which thwarted government plans to close high schools. Not by chance, many of these radicalized young people joined the Free Fare Movement, as well as the feminist and and LGBT movements that have continued to mobilize in 2016.
meanwhile PT's been prohibiting advertising aimed at children and loaning poor people money to buy their own homes, actual socialist policies instead of SocDem non-sense.
fucking trots
No.614283
>The Left can also draw inspiration and lessons from the explosion of student occupations in São Paulo at the end of 2015, which thwarted government plans to close high schools. Not by chance, many of these radicalized young people joined the Free Fare Movement, as well as the feminist and and LGBT movements that have continued to mobilize in 2016.
was meant to be greentext
No.614289
>>614279
I fear that our left will go full Idpol in the following years. Bolsomito 2018 for me then.
No.614635
>>614289
99% of chance it will senpai
No.614861
>>586684
>>590660
why brazil is fucked
No.614863
>>614283
>young people joining idpol meme organizations that doesnt focus on class struggle
typical modern leftists
No.614866
>>614289
>>614635
Sometimes I think that being a socialist means that we will live our entire lives with enemies of ours in power.
No.615784