No.604012
So I've heard that feminism is capitalist both in the foundation of the ideas it professes and in the bulk of its musings and reactions to the world. Here on leftypol. A refreshing reply compared to the numerous sages I get for not liking SJWs and authoritarian "collectivism".
Could I get more details about this from someone that are specific about modern feminism and the origins of feminism?
No.604017
>>604012
That image made me throw up in my mouth a little.
No.604026
That's a fun argument.
Abortionists are disgusting creatures. I wonder how they'll feel when they're forced to think of it.
No.604029
Holy fuck that image, OP.
Yeah feminism is a bunch of bourgeois women complaining about having nothing to do. Working class women have always had jobs, along with power and responsibility over the household, especially with regards to the children. A lot of things people take for granted had to be pushed into mainstream culture over a long time by feminism. The only reason feminism caught on was because of the middle class being basically faux-bourgeoisie right down to the thematic elements of their architecture.
Still I can't get over that image. Where did you find it?
No.604031
Feminists pretty much just want to create a status quo where women hold the capital.
As noticeable in the fact that they're trying to replace male bourgies with female bourgies.
No.604035
>mfw that image was made by people that would absolutely abort their child if it were a dirty Sodomite
Abortion politics are the most pathetic thing ever
No.604036
>>604026
Oh for fucks sake, don't tell me we've got pro-life vermin infesting the left now. There's one thing being opposed to idpol liberals but reactionary vermin like you need to die.
No.604037
Feminist idpol is the reason why Senator Sanders lost. Its bourg as fuck.
No.604039
>>604036
Pretty much this.
#nolivesmatter
No.604040
>>604036
But muh babies
Won't someone think of the babies?????
No.604041
>>604037
Even though most of her supporters are conservative dems?
No.604042
>>604026
> Pro-life
You do realize that before abortions were legal thousands of unwanted children became lumpens. Kill yourself my man.
No.604043
>>604036
Abortion on demand is demographic suicide.
Unless you can get the Indians and Africans to do the same?
No.604044
>>604036
>being anti-life
So typical of the left. Into gulag :DD
No.604045
>>604043
>killing white babies is wrong
No.604046
No.604047
>>604043
> Demographic suicide
Nothing to see here guys it's just s storm kiddie.
No.604049
>>604043
>>604044
>demographic suicide
The "white race" is an idpol spook.
Fuck off back to /pol/.
No.604050
>>604043
You do realize that abortion on demand is used mostly by poor people, right? If it's demographic suicide, it's demographic suicide of the poorer demographics.
No.604051
whoever made this image probably thinks they discovered the ultimate gotcha
but AFAIK even the most "intersectional" feminists think women should be able to do it regardless of their motivation
No.604054
>>604040
Plz
Someone think of the babies :(((((
No.604056
>>604050
No it means that poor women don't ruin their lives. Pumping out dozens of unwanted children is a quick way for a woman to end up completely fucked with no prospects.
No.604059
>>604056
Why can't they just use contraception?
No.604060
>>604050
How is denying the bourgeoisie prole babies a bad thing? Those cunts are the ones the want to increase birthrates to increase MUH PRODUCTIVITY (profits).
No.604062
>>604045
>>604050
>>604056
Forcing material circumstances, in which child-rearing is unbearable, on proletarian women and giving them free abortion is intended demographic suicide.
You Reddit-tier """leftists" are playing right into Soros' and Sutherland's hands, and you don't even realise it.
Only when your country is full of scab rapists from Nigeria will you realise.
No.604064
>>604059
Sometimes it fails.
Why is killing babies so triggering to you?
No.604067
>>604062
>Forcing material circumstances, in which child-rearing is unbearable, on proletarian women
Eh what?
No.604069
>>604059
That would mean they'd have to use personal responsibility. Not allowed.
No.604071
>>604069
Isn't choosing which baby you want a personal responsibility?
No.604073
>>604071
Yes, but so is the use of contraception or abstinence.
No.604075
Feminism from its inception has been about reformation for wemon into bourge society.
But, feminism is not intrinsically a bourge ideology because the liberation of women comes from the abolition of the state and capitalist classes.
That's why people like Emma Goldman actively resisted the suffrage movement because she understood that it was not liberatory or revolutionary but reformist and bourge.
No.604076
>>604062
>Only when your country is full of scab rapists from Nigeria will you realise.
Yeah okay you can talk about "poor women" all you want. We know you mean white women stormcuck. The only on playing into Soros hands is you. Im not afraid of "rapists" from Nigeria anymore then I'm afraid of band of rapists on college campuses.
No.604078
>>604073
So… what's the problem with abortion?
No.604079
>>604078
I don't know? Personally, I don't like the idea of dead babies, but nor do I really care that much.
No.604080
>>604079
>Fetuses are babies
No.604082
>>604056
>>604060
I was phrasing it in terms that guy would understand.
No.604083
>>604080
If not terminated in utero, they would develop into 'babies' proper, yes.
Or are you able to rationalise killing a human baby only if you dehumanise it in your mind?
No.604084
>>604080
So what if it's not technically a baby? It's still human.
Does a human gain its value from its cognitive abilities?
No.604085
>>604083
I have a serious question for you and I hope you answer it honestly
Do you eat meat?
No.604086
>>604084
>Anarcho-nihlist
what
No.604088
>>604075
You know Anarcha feminist you're a pretty cool guy. Where oyu the one that btfo out of that terf in that other thread?
No.604090
No.604092
>>604084
I have a tumor with more cells in it than most embryos. All those cells have human DNA. Is that a human life that I can't terminate?
No.604095
>>604092
You can terminate anything and anyone you like
:')
I'm not "pro-life", I was just pointing out the flaw of anarcha-feminists argument.
No.604096
>>604090
I would think a nihilist would be the first to understand the concept of value is not an objective quantity.
To answer your question, no.
But, a fetus is a fetus. It cannot feel or rationalize like a human can. It is, litterally, about on par with a plant for a while.
No.604097
>>604085
I get your inference. I'm not a vegetarian, but I dislike the meat industry and animal slaughter, so I don't eat a lot of meat.
>>604092
I'm no biologist, but I'm not sure that a tumour is likely to grow into a human being if not excised. Maybe not a fair comparison.
No.604098
>>604095
No, you are just being a pretentious.
No.604101
>>604095
Oh, then yes. A human gains its value from its cognitive abilities. It's stupid to keep someone on life support when their brain is basically non-functional.
>>604097
>Maybe not a fair comparison.
That was my point. I was showing why that argument doesn't work, because it also applies to tumors.
No.604102
>>604096
My 1 year old brother is pretty fucking stuipd. He senses things at a level similar to a plant.
May I murder him?
No.604103
>>604101
Then I misread. Sorry.
No.604104
>>604098
Clearly we're not allowed to murder babies after they're born, but you have to draw the line somewhere arbitrary before that. What about a baby a week before being born? A month?
No.604106
>>604102
>1 year olds sense things at a level similar to a plant
No they don't
No.604107
>>604104
I think the line for years has been around the 24 weeks.
No.604108
>>604106
He branches out towards the sun like a plant does. He's fucking retarded and will go whereever the wind takes him.
And if he had been born literally retarded, would murdering him then be cool?
No.604109
>>604108
>Still trying to say a 1 year old is a plant.
Top kek.
Also trying to imply that handicap people are like plants.
kek.
Inb4 actual vegetable people.
No.604111
>>604107
My point is that the line where "human life" "begins" is arbitrary
No.604113
>>604111
And so what if it is?
No.604114
>>604109
top keke maximum petronum
You just implied that cognitive abilities are what makes us human and gives us 'value'.
So we obviously need a scale for how cognitive someone needs to be to deserve life, no? Where do 1 year olds fall in this category?
No.604116
>>604114
I suggest you stop eating green beans if you are so worried about fetuses. :^)
No.604118
>>604102
Knock yourself out.
#NoLivesMatter
No.604119
>>604116
I'm not worried.
Just trying to understand a comrade's logic.
You refuse to let me in, though. :'( Why wont you explain it to me?
No.604120
>>604059
What if she's raped of the baby will die or the mother will die? Also people make mistakes in terrible circumstances and I don't think people should have their lives fucked over one.
No.604121
>>604079
So you prefer the idea of dead women
No.604122
No.604125
>>604119
You are just being a cunt is what you are being.
It's not your body, m8.
If there was any actual way the fetus was being tormented or knew what was even happening (or what it was for that matter) I would have a different opinion, but, it doesn't. And I am not saying that ones cognition is the measure for its value. But, abortion is a better alternative than having people going back to dying with coat hangers stuck up there ovaries.
No.604126
>>604120
Should the baby's life be "fucked over" i.e. ended because the mother made a mistake?
No.604127
>>604126
>Fetus
>baby
False equivalency.
No.604129
>>604126
The baby's life will get fucked either way because if the parents can't support it the only thing waiting is a shitty ass life. Besides, why did you ignore the other points in my post?
No.604133
>>604125
It's true, I am being a cunt. But you're being inconsistent.
>If there was any actual way the fetus was being tormented or knew what was even happening (or what it was for that matter) I would have a different opinion, but, it doesn't.
Drug the 1 year old and he wont know either.
>And I am not saying that ones cognition is the measure for its value.
You were. But we agree.
So what does determine ones right to life?
>But, abortion is a better alternative than having people going back to dying with coat hangers stuck up there ovaries.
Well, coat hangers in their ovaries is abortion, so that's not really an argument
No.604135
>>604133
>Drug the 1 year old and he wont know either.
The one year old is not a fetus.
A fetus and a baby are not the same. Deal with it.
>So what does determine ones right to life?
>Rights
Spooks
>Well, coat hangers in their ovaries is abortion, so that's not really an argument
At the risk of harming an actual human being who is fully aware of what is going on.
> But you're being inconsistent.
As are you.
No.604136
>>604119
Dat concern trolling.
No.604137
>>604135
>The one year old is not a fetus.
>A fetus and a baby are not the same. Deal with it.
I don't give a shit what you call the lump of meat.
All I'm doing is try to make you answer why killing one is more 'moral' than the other.
>spooks
I'm literally saying no one has rights. You're trying to claim the 1 year old has rights.
>At the risk of harming an actual human being who is fully aware of what is going on.
What does the mother have to do with anything?
No.604139
>>604137
>All I'm doing is try to make you answer why killing one is more 'moral' than the other.
"Moral" lmao.
I value the babies life over the fetus because the fetus has the same value of a plant.
Deal with it faggot
>I'm literally saying no one has rights. You're trying to claim the 1 year old has rights.
No, now you're putting words in my mouth.
Typical
I, typically, lean pretty far into the anarchist camp, so, I like to apply the concept of autonomy to things.
Killing the baby would be a violation of it's autonomy.
The difference from the baby and the fetus, however, is that the fetus is attached to my ovaries. It's part of my body.
>What does the mother have to do with anything?
I value human life over the fetus.
No.604142
>>604129
Because I'm practicing my baiting skills and not who you were responding to before.
No.604153
>>604139
>"Moral" lmao.
I was making fun of your morality.
>Deal with it faggot
I am dealing with your arbitrary value system, I'm just trying to understand it too. We talk and learn, right? :')
You claim fetuses have plant value, yet offer no argument why the baby doesn't have plant value.
Then you devolve into 'the right to autonomy' after calling rights spooky.
>The difference from the baby and the fetus, however, is that the fetus is attached to my ovaries. It's part of my body.
This is a decent argument. It's a parasite and needs to be removed.
But can this also not apply to 'humans'?
No.604159
>>604153
>I was making fun of your morality.
what morality? Again, you are putting words in peoples mouths.
>I am dealing with your arbitrary value system, I'm just trying to understand it too. We talk and learn, right?
All value systems are arbitrary. I decided to stop giving a shit about the time things are about as equal as plants.
You claim fetuses have plant value, yet offer no argument why the baby doesn't have plant value.
>Fetuses have no ability to feel pain until 24 weeks
>Fetus are not conscious of their surroundings
>Fetuses are indifferent to its existence.
I never said the baby does have more value than the plant either.
But, babys can feel pain and the like are are less on the scale of plants to me than fetuses.
But, this is all my opinion any ways and I have already admitted this. So, you are just being a pedantic, pretentious, post-leftist.
As they, typically, are.
>Then you devolve into 'the right to autonomy' after calling rights spooky.
>Imply rights aren't spooks.
[/spoiler]They totally are[/spoiler]
They aren't a material phenomena they are just a romanticized idea and typically require the force of the state to back them.
>But can this also not apply to 'humans'?
No. Not by what I apply to my life. Autonomy, ect ect ect.
No.604164
>>604159
This is no longer fun.
No.604176
ITT: people should be forced to raise kids they don't want and thus burden society with delinquents because my obese pimply video game addicted ass knows what is best for the entirety of society
No.604256
Suck my dick, anti-lifers.
No.604257
>pro-lifers
Not even once, reproductive rights to all! Men and women.
No.604263
Feminism = Communism
Females = Proletariat
Male = Bourgeois
Patriarchy = Capitalism
The Frankfurt School used Conflictual Dualism and applied it to everything - and thus, Identity Politics was created and Feminism was born.
No.604270
>>604012
It's a branch of bourgeois liberalism so yes it's bourgeois.
They don't want equal rights in the workplace they just want less males.
So just as diversity has become a codeword for less whites, Feminism is a codeword for less males.
No.604284
No.604292
>>604279
>There is no baby
That's a +1 already.
No.604295
>>604292
I think you mean -1.
No.604327
Literally nothing wrong with aborting fetuses as long as its before the third trimester
No.604332
>>604295
Nah I'm not that stupid.
No.604337
>>604101
Actually humans gain their value based on how long it took to deliver them as shown by the labor theory of value.
No.604385
No.604400
No.604401
>>604337
Someone's been working on their theory.
No.604426
File: 1458309488673.jpg (836.68 KB, 1600x1363, 1600:1363, 10d34ecf-c513-40bc-87a8-49….jpg)
Post yfw there are anarcho-nihilists on this board that are pro-life.
No.604431
>>604426
>yfw you realize you misread all of my posts
No.605183
>>604257
including the unborn?
No.605195
>>604257
including the unborn?
No.605238
>>604426
>"nihilists"
>arguing others application of meaning or value
No.605258
>>604113
if it is, that means that you could make the argument that abortion is immoral or moral at any point in time between conception and birth. The notion that there is a scientific basis on which this may be determined is incorrect. Babies are more retarded than most retards, so if we're arguing that mental state is what determines humanity, you should be able to murder any child under the age of like three or something.
No.605285
>prolifers in /leftypol/
Kill yourselves
No.605290
>>605285
>leftypol hates life xD
pol detected
No.605312
>>605290
>anti-prolifer is anti-life
No.605398
Abortion is the intentional termination of human life and by definition murder.
Still we shouldn't force people to raise kids they don't want to.
No.605460
>>605398
it's not human life - its the hypothetical potential for a human life.
for the majority of the time in the womb it range of consciousness of a cancer cell to a goldfish.
and in a more technical way, if it can't survive separated from its host, its just a shitty parasite
No.605483
>>605398
There is no "life" at the point where abortions are allowed. It's purely a forming nervous system with no human conscious. Terminations of actual human life are only considered when the woman's life is in danger.
No.605487
>>605460
Don't try to reason with tankies.
No.605503
>>605460
>and in a more technical way, if it can't survive separated from its host, its just a shitty parasite
babies who have been born die if they're separated. Your definition is shitty.
No.605554
>>604083
A 4 year old child, will develop into an adult proper unless they die before then.
And yet 4 year olds are not considered adults nor are they given the rights or responsibilities of adults.
No.606245
>>605503
I've yet to meet a 5 year old who could survive all on their own in the deep wilderness.
>>605460
No stage of a human life is a "parasite" dont try to talk biology if you don't understand any of the terms.
Also a 46 chromosome developing human is not a goldfish.
>>604071
>>604069
>>604059
If killing off humans was a good choice to get rid of decisions we decided we wanted to undo then murder wouldn't be illegal. Why draw the line at birth if intelligence and self sustainability are markers?
And why do pregnant mothers who get killed at any month of pregnancy result in being charged with double murder when intentional?
No.606282
>>604012
OP's pic: Yeah, I would support her "reproductive choice" - any woman stupid enough to have "potentially a gay son" as the primary reason to not have a child probably shouldn't have a child in the first place.
No.606306
'Battle of the sexes' Type shit is inherently a diversionary tactic, and this ideology is being pushed be bourgeois media, so it pretty much confirms: >>604270
The sexes should be working together, not try to one up each other.
No.606363
>>606306
It's easy for someone with muh privilege to say it's a "diversionary tactic"
No.606380
>>606363
That's because it's easy for anyone to say its a diversionary tactic. Because it's obvious and true.
No.606387
>>606363
Cucked by the word filter. It always gets you idpolers. Lel
No.606534
>>604426
Hes such a faggot.
No.606541
>>604426
Pretty sure it is the same anarcho-nihilist who owns this edgelord board >>>/grim/
No.606548
>>606534
>>606541
>being pro-life is edgy and faggy
Ok.
No.606566
Abolish sexual reproduction, breed humans in labs
No.606567
>>606548
>Look at me mom, I'm concern trolling!
>Ha, I'm not pro-life like you think because nihilist don't believe in such things! :DD
>HA HA, no I'm in fact a pro-lifer, I was not being retarded!! DDD::
Hopefully hes not this retarded.
No.606596
If you're pro-choice, you're buying into porky's value system of valuing consumer goods and personal profit over family.
No.606644
>>606567
First, I'm not n1x. I do very much enjoy his posts though. He's the reason I stuck with 8ch in the first place.
Second, I was never trolling or claiming to be "pro-life". I was just annoyed by anfem's vague moral justification that fetuses are plants and 24 weeks olds are human.
No.606661
>>606596
if you're pro-life, you're buying into porky's value system of increasing the pool of cheap labor available over a woman's freedom
No.606665
No.606711
>an image obviously made by a reactionary to abortion, feminism and homosexuality
>is feminism capitalist?
How about fuck off pol/?
No.606732
>>606661
>freedom
spooky…
>>606665
>spooks
spooky…
>>606711
>imageboards
spooked to the max
No.606733
Basically this is feminism as I understand it
The first feminist we're on the tail end of the enlightenment that pointed out the hypocrisy of social movements that completely ignore the presence and needs of woman, like the American and French revolutions. They also placed an emphasis on how women in history were ignored or discriminated against.
The second wave of feminism was a reaction to the "New Left" of the sixties and seventies. Woman were again being ignore and they chalked it up to the patriarchy were woman were being discriminated against on a social/economic level.
Then we have the current eave of feminists which is an amalgamation of post-modernism, Foucauldian theories of power social critical theory that seeks to disassemble and analyse all aspects of social life.
Then there are the other movements not related to these like the anti-imperialist black feminists, TERFs, right wing feminists, socialist feminists etc.
I dont think that feminism is inherently capitalist as most of groups of feminists are just another kind of school of thought with a twist. Theres nothing about the discourse or basic theories itself that can be used to stop class warfare, only in its implementation. For the uneducated and the liberals it serves as a justification for reformism which is why leftypol/ isn't a fan. Also technically any school of feminist thought stems from the upper class intellectuals (like Wollestoncroft) and/or college movements (like bell hooks) but isn't that just all intellectual discourse?
No.606740
>>606596
>not wanting a baby so you can live
>selfish desire for personal consumer goods
Not sure if pol/, protestant or an-prim. Either way kill yourself
No.606793
>>606740
>protestant
Transubstantiation is a spook, papist
No.606811
>>606732
>Stirner being an anarchistic.
Spook
No.606827
>>604083
Your argument fundamentally hinges on the belief that action has greater moral weight than inaction. This is a flaw of human reasoning and you should stop doing it.
No.607245
>>606827
>Your argument fundamentally hinges on the belief that action has greater moral weight than inaction.
How so? As far as I can tell that anon's argument is that a child and a fetus have the same "moral value" (in the sense that they're both non-human, in terms of intelligence). Given how that's the case, if you kill one, you may as well be killing the other, morally speaking.
No.607254
>>606740
I will not tolerate Romanism on this board.
No.607260
>>607254
>Protestantism
>being scripturally accurate
No.607351
>>607260
The reformation ebin meme nuffin
Luther was a gud boi
Fuck off back to Ireland you papist Mick (pic related)
No.607362
>>607351
>buttblasted heretic doing damage control
No.607373
>>607362
Don't you have some indulgences to pay or something?
Yeh thats right go and PURCHASE your divinity from a little boy fucker, that will get you into heaven.
Kek.
No.607394
>>607373
>ass-annihilated proddy with no dank memes
kek
No.607398
No.607400
>>607394
>The year of our lord 2016
>blessed are the poor, the meek shall inherit the earth
>Golden hat, golden stick, golden everything
>ostentatious, opulent wealth
>little boy fucking endemic
>allows Usury, indeed, invests usuriously
Hows the Crusades btw? Holy Land Liberated yet?
No.607452
The question is asked by antichoice morons, but I discovered after discussing with some feminists (not sjw) about the situation of abortion in india that they are full of hypocrisy on the topic. Tehy are all for freedom for the women to abort except when they don't like their reasons
No.608079
>>607394
>>608071
Super dank memes, bro.
You are really showing them.
Don't forget to use le ebin fedoura maymay next.
No.608133
>>607394
the only good thing catholics have produced…is Hitler. ;)
No.608152
>>608133
He did nothing wrong tho.
No.608433
>>608079
u jelly that proddys can't produce memes at this lvl. it's all that heresy clogging their brains
No.609653