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File: 1458516742501.png (500.72 KB, 500x708, 125:177, We will win.png)

 No.608478

What's the difference and similarities between social democracy and democratic socialism?

 No.608480

the "democratic" in "democratic socialism" is superlative

the "democracy" in "social democracy" is a lie


 No.608483

>>608480

* superfluous


 No.608489

One is Capitalism and the other isn't.


 No.608501

Democratic socialism is borge democracy with workers control over the means of production…so…yes…it's superfluous.

And social democracy is capitalism with a welfare state.


 No.608511

>>608501

>socialism

>bourgeoisie existing

not possible


 No.608517

>>608501

>socialism is borge democracy

Fucking anarkeks


 No.608518

In practice they're one and the same: counter-revolutionary and bourgeois


 No.608531

Democratic socialism generally means achieving socialism through the electoral system. IE a socialist party gets elected and implements socialism.

Social democracy is capitalism with a mindful eye towards workers, to ensure that they don't live in absolute filth. Its Keynesianism to ensure the existence of capitalism but keep it in check.


 No.608543

File: 1458519065530.png (23.61 KB, 748x394, 374:197, 1457581586088.png)

Social Democracy: Neutered capitalism, large welfare state, some nationalized industries and regulations on capitalism. Some Social Democrats actually take a some what Marxian analysis of the economy.

Democratic Socialism: Democratic Government with a nationalized industry and full worker's ownership of the means of production usually with workers committees and co-ops. Typically Democratic Socialists differ from Marxist-Leninists on economic management, DemSocs argue for a Market Socialist economy, where Marxist-Leninists prefer a centrally planned economy. DemSocs differ from Marxist-Leninists on social policy as well, a Marxist Leninist would have you shot for disagreeing with the government, where as a DemSoc argues for socially liberal freedoms, even some (like myself) argue for legalization of drugs and prostitution.


 No.608548

File: 1458519186158.gif (2.64 MB, 320x240, 4:3, 1389102293971.gif)

>>608501

>borge democracy with workers control over the means of production

>workers control over the means of production

>borge


 No.608551

if it isn't democratic it isn't socialism

note: "democracy" is not synonymous with representative democracy


 No.608563

Social democracy: Reforming capitalist systems through regulation, welfare state.

Democratic Socialism: Either that a socialist government can come into power through parliamentary means, or that the socialist government should emphasize democracy. Ideologically pretty every socialist would be a "democratic socialist," but I feel like the term partially arose as a response to some of the concessions made by the USSR.


 No.608564

>>608551

>"democracy" is not synonymous with representative democracy

explain what is and how these are not representative democracies:

>Syndicalism

>Federalism

>Council communism

>Anything else than "voluntarism" which cant exist because the porkys won't voluntarily give away their property.


 No.608575

>>608531

>Democratic socialism generally means achieving socialism through the electoral system. IE a socialist party gets elected and implements socialism.

Wrong


 No.608601

>>608575

oops, sorry


 No.608641

>>608517

I said borge democracy. Not borge existing. Borge ideas can exist with out the borge.

EXP: Bolshevism

>>608511

Literally, not what I said tank.


 No.608649

>>608548

>Borge democracy

Is not

>Workers control over the means of production is bourge


 No.609107

>>608478

Democratic socialism split of off social democracy because they didn't like neoliberalism, but don't want to do anything different than the social democrats.


 No.609116

File: 1458542055318.jpg (454.37 KB, 1024x576, 16:9, 1440328351750.jpg)

First you need to remember that social democrats where from the beginning actual Marxists who wanted to implement socialism. But well, history happened.

Now the democratic socialists have this genius idea to try the exact same thing all over again.

Go figure.

Still, I don't really have anything against them trying - at this point in history they'll be a proof that capitalism can't even be "reformed" any more. Under globalization capital and the means of production can be moved so easily that the representative state and trade unions are essentially toothless.


 No.609132

File: 1458543165849.png (118.35 KB, 568x649, 568:649, leftysabotabby2.png)

>>608478

Democratic socialism is socialism achieved through democracy; i.e. enacting socialist policies and removing the capitalist structure of the economy through voting.

Social democracy is a capitalist democracy with the people's welfare in mind, basically what >>608543 said


 No.609527

>>608517

name calling is a /pol/ tier argument strategy, faggot


 No.609588

>>609527

Smooth ending.


 No.609609

File: 1458579427702.png (17.44 KB, 81x86, 81:86, 1403044057068.png)


 No.609670

>>609132

Tldr: Social democracy is welfare capitalism; an opium for the working class.


 No.610516

>>608478

sortition and direct democracy


 No.610537

File: 1458609464187.jpg (11.13 KB, 259x194, 259:194, awef.jpg)

>>608478

They aren't mutually exclusive.

Social democracy is just reform within the economy we have. It can be left or right wing. For example left-social-democrats marching in the streets for $15 an hour are left-social-democrats. Obamabots extolling the virtues of free market health insurance are right-social democrats.

Democratic socialism is an academic distinction from authoritarian pretensions of socialism.

They overlap.

Democratic socialists who want violent revolution or are just waiting for a slightly more peaceful revolution to come from the fall of capitalism I guess would be less reformist than other democratic socialists.


 No.610990

>>610537

>They aren't mutually exclusive

Yes they are, they're two completely different ideas. One still has the capitalist mode of production, the other doesn't.




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