/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

did you literally just walk outside and start talking to people about socialism randomly on the street?

I just had an extended conversation with a white Jewish Cuban expat today. He was really butthurt that I kept defending Hizbollah, but hilariously, he really flipped out when I stated the simple fact that Cuban people are well-fed. He had literally no way to refute the fact that Cuba has a high life expectancy rate, so he instead argued that Cubans were just genetically superior and could thus survive off of less food. I fucking shit you not. Then he walked away waving his arms. And he was a Donald Trump supporter. Cuban expats may be the kings of classcucks.

>>610930

When I have too, I usually point out practical problems, like the lack of negotiation on workplace conditions, wages, the problem of domestic labor, the limited oportunities on jobs and the like. When I pointed them as wrongs, then I talk about, with no labelling, a system where you own and control your workplace, either as an individual or as a collective; you get less ours of work and work itself is less tedious.

>>610950

Kek

>>610953

Damn thats a much better idea, but I dont have the skills to be a slick entryist so I just go full communist

It's something I think a lot of Socialists have too deal with, holding a general disdain for the public and yet fighting very hard for them. I think a large part of Socialism is realizing that the working class can be better and can reach a much higher potential as humans, but are being held back by Capital.

I live and have grown up in a very working class, blue collar area and I myself have worked in the trades for several years. I fucking hate everyone around me and tradies are the most reactionary, dumb as fuck, uncultured, bullying morons I've ever dealt with in my life, start using big words or talk about politics and be prepared for a giant target on yourself yet they are the core of the Proletariat, the industrial worker.

I go too the local shopping center and everyone is fat as shit, waddling around, dressed like shit and when I listen in on the conversations people are having largely because I want too hear political opinions not from my echo-chamber, when they are talking politics (which is rarely) they are just repeating points from very right-wing media or most of the time, they are talking about some shitty reality TV show.

The worst part is I get along with porkies and upper-middle class liberals than I get on with my fellow blue-working class.

One of the most bizarre things I've found is that it's typically your high-income worker (public service, corporate management etc) who's far more class conscious and critical of capital than your poor-blue collar worker, largely I think is because they are probably more intellectual and more likely too be exposed too Marx and be able to envision how Capital works as a system.

Honestly don't know how I came about though, as I said, grew up in a blue-collar area, school was filled with fucking morons, my brother is a incredibly racist, right wing, bigot, looking at facebook the vast majority of people I went too school with are racist, right wing, blue collar bigots. My school was the second worst ranked school in the state. I wonder why I became class conscious and why no one around me has.

>>610957

Dat subversion

>>610957

The majority of people dont care about African or Asian workers. Actually theyll say that "capitalism" (rather than their labour) will make their lives better.

We need to be far more subversive than that. We need to strike at their foundations

>>610930

Lemme guess, you're a fresh commie?

I've felt that urge to talk to random people about socialism too, but honestly I don't believe its possible to convince most strangers.

Instead, you should focus on your family, friends, and those who you talk with most.

Also, I suggest avoiding the "they weren't communists!" line. It makes you look like you're trying to save face. Point out what these countries achieved and that they too had their problems in the way, corruption, wars, bad leadership, you name it.

>>610958

Is even harder when you live in a thrid world country in which the word socialism is associated with a dictatorship (Juan Velasco Alvarado was the closer thing to self-managed socialism you get in America as a continent) and a terrorist group (which was a bunch of landlord's children that read maoism and though that peasants are way too imbecile to start the revolution).

I have to become the slickest entryist (albeit I say at the end that such system is socialism)

>>610964

Meant to press on this flag, not Nazi

>>610967

Not to mention that 50% economical activities are part of the informal sector and they are easily deluded with the "popular capitaism" bullshit.

>>610959

We shouldnt blame the American working class, its the end result of insane amount of propaganda right from childhood.

What the working class need is pride. Pride in the fact that they are the ones who built everything, not the capitalist parasites.

When people become proud and identify as a working class as something good(builders of society not losers or idiots) they are much more susceptible to ideologies that glorify the working class.

I know its a shitty appeal to emotions but our spooks are better than their spooks. Our spooks encourage class conciousness.

>>610975

Goddamn it Hotwheels stop eating up my images

Anyway I posted a Soviet propaganda poster about the dignity of labour

>yet they are the core of the Proletariat, the industrial worker.

Not in the 21st century first world, the service worker is these days.

One of the biggest mistakes of modern socialism is an appeal too the blue collar industrial worker base which is shrinking at a rapid rate and is usually very anti-intellectual and dumb instead of the service workers who are usually young and intelligent and far more openly exploited.

T R I G G E R E D

>>610971

I wasn't going Unruhe on him, I was just stating that Iran was a force for stability in the region and Saudi was a force for chaos. I pointed out that Hizbollah was supporting the Syrian government, and Shiite militias were fighting ISIS in Iraq, thus increasing stability. Due to his prophetic Zionism, he couldn't compute these facts and had to keep ignoring them. Accused me of being a terrorist sympathizer, to which I replied I don't necessarily like Hizbollah, but I do like the PKK lol.

>>611013

Its a gotcha thing, you post it on facebook and ask people if theyre capotalost or communist according to this picture. of course everyone will say theyre "capitalist" then you show that the opposite happens in capitalism

If they're over forty you're probably wasting your time.

If you're just straight up trying to tell them what's what–to drag them out of the metaphorical cave–then you're definitely wasting your time. They have to be coaxed out, because if you try to drag them they'll fight you every step of the way.

>>611102

Anarchism is calvinball

>>611102

>not illustrating the difference between choosing your own leader and having a boss

tsk

It all feels so hopeless OP, especially when there are even people on leftypol right now who think the ussr was communist and go around feeding normie misconceptions. Personally, I think we should stop using the word communism and start refering to ourselves exclusively as socialists or perhaps even syndicalists if youre into that kind of thing. The word communism has been stolen from us by fascists.

I think it's best too try go slick entryist, speak socialist talking points but do it in a way that doesn't out yourself as a Socialist/Communist. Don't talk about "means of production" or any intellectual shit (normies are anti-intellectual as fuck generally) talk about how management are retarded and why aren't us workers running everything when we have on the ground experience. Talk about how it's unfair the company is profiting from the work we do etc. Slowly open them up too Socialist ideals.

The main issue these days is that the working class has become so fucking reactionary and anti-intellectual that I find its actually dangerous too out yourself. I've been outright bullied at jobs by coworkers once I outed myself as simply someone who was politically and intellectually conscious.

>Anyway, I wanna know what your IRL experiences are like with normies.

>I agree with pretty much all your points and solutions, but communism only works on paper

And i live in europe.

>I am so fucking tired right now. I fully realize why we havent had a revolution already, its because the vast majority of people are FULLY in control by bourg propaganda.

Watch The Pervert's Guide to Ideology/Cinema. They should be compulsory viewing for this board. It will help explain how ideology operates.

>>611172

>I agree with pretty much all your points and solutions, but communism only works on paper

THIS fucking one!!!

They accept shits fucked up….and??? They dont even CARE about possible alternatives

Its just " oh yeah its terrible but im not even gonna bother about alternatives cuz I heard they dont work so lets just accept this hell"

WHAT THE FUCK NORMIES?????

>>611229

This is a philosophical conundrum that extends far beyond our own political activism: we're acting in what we believe to be everyone's rational self-interest, yet people seem unwilling to help even themselves.

Fuck, this is all so true. I'm a mild democratic socialist and I'm constantly getting called "commie" by people around me.

Funny experiences:

>talk with a grill

>"hey, I'm a leftist too!"

>show that I'm a member of the socialist party

>Girl responds: "Nooo wayyy, I'm not THAT lefty"

Another one:

>talk about free software and how you are getting fucked by private companies by using proprietary software

>get called a communist

>people say: "You're just destroying our IT JOBS!!! Free software sucks!"

>responded with: "That's a problem of our socioeconomic system"

>their answer: "well, socialism didn't work blablabla. Look at China. what are you? a communist?!?!?"

>well, the conditions for these countries were not right for socialism. it is also debatable whether these countries were genuinely socialist, as the workers didn't own the means of production. i think the failures of those states are more indications of the failure of totalitarianism than socialism

>b-b-b-butt human nature!!

>said that human nature is always changing, and people thought in the past that massive rapes and murder were parts of human nature too and considered normal

>ended the discussion

This is one of the ultimate classcuck conversations I ever had:

>talk about how every monarchy is bad, even ones which are constitutional, because it is unfair that someone is just born with so much wealth and muh privileges

>the answer I get back: "Well.. You underestimate how hard it is to be a king or queen! I don't want to be in their position. Always in the spotlights etc. Almost everyone likes the monarchy

There's also a fundamentalist christian that views me as the stereotypical intellectual atheist communist which is aiming to destroy christian civilization.

I wish that I had records of some more conversations, you would all be laughing your asses off.

There's one friend of me that's not socialist, but that is interested in political theory. He's a centrist but you can get very nice talks about politics with him.

>>611308

>>said that human nature is always changing, and people thought in the past that massive rapes and murder were parts of human nature too and considered normal

Saved in my mind for future discussions.

>>611308

>>the answer I get back: "Well.. You underestimate how hard it is to be a king or queen! I don't want to be in their position. Always in the spotlights etc. Almost everyone likes the monarchy

t. My dad and country members sometimes

>>611229

>>611229

I think this is a place where Terence McKenna makes valid arguments. The value of imagination and direct experience have been ripped away from common people by the modern-technological experiment (i.e. by capital I guess). Such things (imagination, vision, etc) are critical for a revolutionary class. More LSD for the proles! Only problem is McKenna was a staunch anti-leftist and offers no real praxis outside of taking drugs.

Also, someone posted about watching Zizek as an intro to ideology. I'd say that's good, but it'd be good to then read Ideological State Apparatuses by Althusser. Imo it was his masterwork and a must-read for every communist.

I am sort of a 'fresh commie' and haven't done much in the way of evangelizing, but once tried talking to a worker on the job, brought up the 's' word too early, and basically got stonewalled with the whole 'government tellin' me what to do' line, as if the government doesn't already control your life. Never give up on the workers, though.

>>611293

and that's why we need a vanguard party

>>611791

ehhhh if you're saying what I think you are not a great line of logic, I say we may only need a vanguard party to defend from exploitation and imperialism. I'm absolutely fine with letting people disagree on whether they should be exploited or not.

>>610992

Many Americans are really terrible at political nuance.

It creeps me out how so many people can't look beyond the surface.

>>610950

>white Jewish Cuban expat today.

Cubans are the worse.

>>611111

nice digits

>>611782

>Explained revolution

Thats where you went wrong. Don't explain revolution, let them come to the logical conclusion themselves. You just set the pieces.