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File: 1445235911900.png (89.67 KB, 1452x337, 1452:337, hate_us_cause_they_statist.png)

 No.11046

>tfw you just want to live an average life

>tfw everyone is against your desire to live an average, normal life; Republicucks, Democraps, NEETSocs, Commie bastards, SJWs, etc.

>tfw you were driven to libertarianism/anarchy not because you really care about it all, but because it's the only ideology that doesn't want to persecute you

>tfw you'd be happy/not even care about the form of government if said government would just leave you alone/let you live your average life

 No.11047

Then why not just be a minarchist, if you're motivated by practical concerns? More palatable to the average pleb, and the whole racism criticism doesn't apply. In a voluntaryist society and in a minarchist society which really respected your right to property/form voluntary contracts you could set up whatever xenophobic community you wanted. I guess there's the whole problem of endlessly expanding power from a small point, which can't really be solved by paper i.e. laws/constitution, but other than that I'm surprised you went straight to Voluntaryism. But I guess it's cool that you did :P


 No.11048

>>11047

Because of that endless spiral towards big government that you described, anon. I might not have to deal with it, but my grand kids would.

Plus there's a really good book on how to effectively use propaganda. Pretty much if you want to achieve a goal, overshoot with something even more extreme like SJWs do. If I aimed for minarchy I'd probably get Classical Liberalism, so I figure if I aim for Anarchy, I might at least get minarchism. Anarchist philosophy isn't bad per say anyways in case my allies do overshoot and end up there.


 No.11053

>Plus there's a really good book on how to effectively use propaganda. Pretty much if you want to achieve a goal, overshoot with something even more extreme like SJWs do.

I figured this is how it works, too. Intredasting.


 No.11054

Socialism is about keeping the fruits of your labour. They want you to keep, it you fucking retard. The communist one is stupid as well.


 No.11055

The bits about communists and socialists only prove that you have no clue what those ideologies are except for what (I assume American) media tell you about them. They precisely are about not having to give up part of your production on the sole reason that neo-feudal lords expect you to reward them for letting you work and live on "their" land or use "their" machinery.

Really the only fundamental difference between anarcho-capitalism and anarcho-communism is the recognition of either private or personal property, the former basically stemming from might and who claimed it first, while the latter only values use and occupation.


 No.11059

>>11055

>>11054

>Live in gommie paradise

>Do work on the side under-the-table on a for-profit basis

>Dont tell the state about it/refuse to let my funds be redistributed to niggers

>"Off to gulag with you, Comrade!"

Keep telling yourselves that. As someone who values innovation, rewarding innovative laziness, and utilizing the fruits of my own labor to their maximum value, Communism would have me gulag'd within a week for having a profit motive/living an above average lifestyle.

Not to mention Communists have proven repeatedly that they are incompatible with religion anywhere they gain power IRL.

>inb4 "there is no profit in a communist system"

I'll die destitute and bankrupt before I'll accept brainwashing into believing profiting is bad.


 No.11061

>>11059

If you work by yourself and aren't exploiting anyone by doing so there's no reason anybody would seize your production, even if it means you're better off than some of your neighbours. Communism isn't about making everything you own public property, but merely letting workers as a whole keep the fruits of their labour. People might frown upon your non-willingness to help the others, but then it's a case of morality, not economics. During the Spanish Civil War, when a few regions collectivized the means of production, people who preferred to stay on their own were left alone and perfectly tolerated. Actually they even could participate in the various councils if they wanted to because it was believed that they could still have interesting things to say, regardless of their individualist intents.

Also there's no state under communism, you would know that if you actually tried to know anything about it beyond usual propaganda (be it from Western of Soviet side by the way), it's probably the one its most definite principles.

It just seems like you're confusing actual communism with the authoritarian regime the bolcheviks pulled off in the USSR. I'm not judging capitalism on Pinochet's deeds in Chile though, or what is a republic according to how pervertly the term is used in Syria or the numerous African military dictatorships. Because some state uses a word or concept in order to provide pseudo-validity to its actions and existence doesn't mean said concept has to change its meaning in order to comply.

I'll give you the problems it has with religion though, even if the conflict is more with clericalism and the authority of the Church, which was the norm when socialist ideas formed and started to spread. I'm not sure any communisty would see as an issue to have a fellow Christian comrade nowadays.


 No.11062

>>11061

*Western or Soviet, *one of its most, and *communist

Sorry for the typos, kinda fucked up on this one.


 No.11063

“Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.” http://americasright.com/2010/10/19/what-is-eternal-vigilance/


 No.11064

>>11061

Leftist definition of exploitation and my definition of exploitation are not the same. By making a profit, I have exploited people because I charged more than my labor was worth, or unserpaid my apprentice, whereas under Capitalism I have made both of us richer.

The last century or so of attempted communism is pretty honest/in-my-face that I'm somehow committing mass atrocites by profiting.

I've never heard of commies who think they'll get to no state without first introducing an overbearing state outside of "an"coms who typically use the threat of violence instead. I don't just refer to Bolsheviks, I refer to pretty much every attempt at communism so far which has either led to a dictator due to its nature of equality, or to regimes that are at best hyper-social-corporatism states, and at worst complete failures that would leave me jobless anyways.

Eastern Orthodox was very much about seperation of church and state. The revolutionaries didn't care because the Tsars happened to be Eastern Orthodox.


 No.11065

>>11059

There's no state in gommie paradise.


 No.11081

>>11064

Well, if you make a profit based off someone else's work and worth, you're indeed exploiting them according to my logic. The thing is, if you work alongside your employees you deserve a part of the wealth created just the same way they do so you would all be "richer" as well: I don't seek to abolish managers or forbid people from knowing how to run a workplace, leading a team is a respectful job too; but if you're just charging them for their work solely because you happen to own the means of production, then you're nothing more than a parasite and the situation is absolutely no different from feudalism. And I don't want to hear the argument of those parasites then investing their money back into the system: socially owned companies can do that just as well, you just have to replace the previous owner with a council and it's exactly the same thing, except 100% of it can be used, whereas part of it would necessarily stay in the pockets of the exploiter.

"Profiting" in that capitalist sense doesn't have to be a mass atrocity, but it's definitely bad and then varies according to the degree, in the same way that violence can range from slapping someone to invading a country.

As long as there's a state it would just be a socialist transition, you can hardly call that a "gommie paradise" as though it were the goal of anyone. Also the conditions would be extremely different today, since the powerful state planning economy was a way to industralise the country as fast as possible in order to make communism possible. Were a similar revolution to happen in Europe, I doubt it would be necessary. I side with anarcho-communists anyway, and the example of Spain that I already mentionned gives me, on the contrary of what you're saying, good reasons to believe violence wouldn't be necessary in order to organise the society fairly. Unless you consider workers taking over their workplace to be violent, but I believe that the fact it didn't belong to them in the first place is precisely a violation of personal property, since, as I said before, I only recognise use and occupation as a basis for possession. That's why I wrote the question of private or personal property was ultimately the dividing issue between ancoms and ancaps.

Every attempt at communism so far was basically bolshevism: the Chinese Communist Party only succeeded in taking power against the Nationalists because they were backed by the USSR, countries of the Warsaw Pact were bound as well to Stalinist policies (see the Prague Spring for example), and attempts made in South America weren't that bad compared to the alternatives. I already cited Pinochet as an example of capitalist dictatorship, and Venezuelan economy actually improved under Chavez, it only started worsening since he passed away. Yugoslavia was even more successful, purposely staying away from Stalin's influence as soon as it could, and enjoying a better quality of life than a handful of Western European states despite receiving no help from the USA nor the USSR. It would only begin to collapse when it started to lean towards capitalism and nationalisms went back on the rise.

The record is even less tainted when you take modern experiments into account and look towards autonomous Kurdistan, currently fighting ISIS and organising itself as a communist country with successful democracy and so on, or the EZLN in the Chiapas, effectively defending the Natives' rights and seemingly not resorting to any authoritarian mesure in order to uphold their legitimacy, although they only rule over rural areas.

Those are all very well-known examples among leftist communities which tend to be brought up again and again, but the argument of "communism doesn't work/has never worked" is so common that we end up repeating ourselves as well.

Like I said, the religious question doesn't bear much importance to me so I never got really into it. I guess it was just perceived as tool of oppression, imposing false authority on the people, preventing them from wanting to change the word since they would find bliss in Heaven anyway, blurring their sense of morality with arbitrary rules set in stone, etc. At least Eastern Orthodoxy of today is far from distancing itself from the state though.


 No.11121

>>11048

That philosophy of propaganda is flawed. Once you go extreme enough people reject you outright and respond with extreme hostility to everything you represent. Just look at nazism's place in contemporary society.


 No.11122

>>11048

>per say

OY GEVALT

IT'S

PER SE


 No.11132

File: 1445294821806.png (212.25 KB, 361x361, 1:1, aged dubs.png)

>>11121

I don't think the problem is nazis being too extreme, it's the fact that they've been demonized so hard no one likes to admit they're one, unless they're crazy enough tattoo a swastika on their neck. It rightly deserves this spot, however.

>>11122

It was probably just autocorrect that fucked with him. I checked 'em, by the way.


 No.11417

File: 1445740096114.gif (1.92 MB, 410x230, 41:23, uwutm8.gif)

This is why I like lolbertarianism. No one tells you how to live and you don't tell anyone else.

>>11046

>libertarians would persecute me for telling my daughters not to fuck niggers

What? I don't think libertarians would have anything against that.


 No.11426

>>11417

Now I'm seeing it too. What the fuck?


 No.11427

>>11417

You'd be surprised. I hang out with the younger generatio. Of queer-fluid sexo-furrimals.

I'm drunk.


 No.11435

File: 1445763090091.jpg (17.41 KB, 340x412, 85:103, Please.jpg)

>>11427

>Posting while drunk

>Then mentioning you're drunk


 No.11436

File: 1445772605235.jpg (100.17 KB, 495x503, 495:503, 1445705902157.jpg)

>>11417

>libertarianism is cool because nobody tells you how to live and you don't tell anyone else

>there's nothing wrong with telling your daughters not to fuck niggers, though

Make up your mind, anon.


 No.11442

>>11436

>Telling someone not to do something means you kill them if they do it

Which part of "non-aggression" did you not understand?


 No.11446

>>11442

You realize that "telling my daughters not to fuck niggers" is an order, not a suggestion? That's why he's complaining that libertarians want to persecute him for that. Are you really this fucking stupid?


 No.11448

>>11446

This anon gets it. "Stop fucking nigges or I'll disown your ass (or even beat your ass)" can be considered a threat of aggression depending on which Libertarian you ask.

>>11435

Deal with it.


 No.11449

>having children at all

>not being an anti-natalist


 No.11450

>>11449

>Not being selfish

>Not wanting kids for your own paternal pleasurr


 No.11451

File: 1445787318757.jpg (67.88 KB, 553x650, 553:650, 1370688789799.jpg)

>>11450

Forcing a person into existence is the worst form of aggression known to men.


 No.11452

>>11451

Deal with it, fggt.


 No.11456

>>11449

>>11451

CRAAAAAAWLIIIIING IN MY SKIIIIIIIN


 No.12849

>>11456

I hate this god damn meme so much, always gets that terrible song playing in my head


 No.12862

>>12849

It's a coping strategy. He knows the anti-natalists are right, but making fun of them will help forget how useless his life is.


 No.12866

>>12862

Could you explain the theory behind anti-natalism/why it's an inherently good philosophy to incorporate?

I might try to understand theories and come to conclusions based on those in combination with practical knowledge, but I've never even read the actual books that make up the Libertarian/Voluntarist ideology and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

>>11451

Howso?


 No.12876

File: 1447921235385.png (36.19 KB, 500x375, 4:3, 1.png)


 No.12881

>>12876

Wouldn't Epicurean philosophy or utilitarianism generally disprove this notion?




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